Chael Sonnen Was Even More Like a Pro Wrestler Than We Thought
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 1:54 PM EDT
in UFC Editorial
Email
Print
For weeks fans and media raved about Chael Sonnen's pro wrestling-esque interviews building up his title challenge against Anderson Silva at UFC 117. Sonnen talked a great game, mixing together outrageous trash talk and rare honesty in a bravura performance. It really did feel like Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson had given the Team Quest star plenty of pointers. It wasn't a question of whether Sonnen's verbal tirades worked - the question was whether or not his newly found box office clout would change the way the UFC promoted fights going forward.
Inside the cage, Sonnen was as great as we've ever seen him. He outperformed Anderson Silva for four and a half rounds before being caught in a submission. Unfortunately, according to the California State Athletic Commission, Sonnen's performance was even more like pro wrestling than we thought. Sonnen, officials say, was aided by illegal performance enhancing drugs. From Sherdog:
"[Sonnen] received his notice yesterday," Dodd told Sherdog.com shortly after the Shane Mosley-Sergio Mora boxing match ended Saturday night in Los Angeles.
In a conversation the day before, Dodd declined to comment on the situation, other than answering that all fighters from UFC 117 had passed drugs-of-abuse scans, but that the commission was still waiting on performance-enhancing drug screens from the event.
Dodd did not state which banned substance was red-flagged, but with a clean drugs-of-abuse scan it is clear the positive test was for a performance-enhancing substance.
Sonnen not only showed the MMA community the pro wrestling industry's promotional punch, he also showed the hidden side of pro wrestling's continued success. The performers in that industry are able to give their all, and look great doing it, thanks to an often lethal cocktail of steroids, growth hormone, and pain killers that keep their bodies artificially able to give one hundred percent.
What should happen next? More after the jump.
While we don't know the details of Sonnen's case yet, it seems likely that punishment is forthcoming from the state of California. Hopefully the UFC will send a message as well. When Sonnen returns from a suspension that will probably be at least six months in length, he should return to a position in the middle of the pack. His immediate rematch with Silva should be canceled and he should be forced to work his way back to that position, to show he can earn his place drug free.
I don't hold high hopes for that. Through his actions, UFC President Dana White has shown a tacit support for the abuse of performance enhancing drugs. When Sean Sherk tested positive for steroids, White wasted little time inserting the former champion immediately into his highest profile bout to date. In fact, each and every PED abuser in UFC history has returned immediately to the exact same position on the card, as if the cheating had never occurred. Only Josh Barnett wasn't brought back into the fold - and that was the result of a bitter contract dispute, not a steroid scandal.
Talking with fighters and managers in the industry, it seems obvious that the sport has a PED problem. It's time for the UFC to continue its role as the industry leader. They've led the sport forward for almost ten years. Now it's time to grab the reigns and guide the industry into a drug free future. It's the right thing to do. And they can start by making an example of Chael Sonnen.
605 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I hope he does
and this is coming from an AS fan
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
So...
…you would be willing to reward him for his illegal drug use?
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
I don’t understand that. He should be sent back into the mid-card. The UFC wanted him to win that fight and when he didn’t they said screw it, we’ll give him another chance. He’s more marketable than Silva.
No matter how exciting the first fight was, if this is true, he doesn’t deserve another shot at the champion before working his way back up.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
CagesideSeats.com
Follow me on Twitter at GenoMrosko
by Geno Mrosko on Sep 19, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
last time i check the ufc was a business...
rematch with sonnen would be the most lucrative fight for silva outside of a gsp super-fight.
sonnen will get the rematch.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
So who cares that he failed a drug test, right? That’s pathetic.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
CagesideSeats.com
Follow me on Twitter at GenoMrosko
by Geno Mrosko on Sep 19, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t care. I want the rematch.
I am free because I choose to be so-Me
by Kefka on Sep 19, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So when Manny failed a test on the Dodgers
They should have booted his ass back down to the minors for a few years just to teach him a lesson? The Dodgers were pro-drug use because they put him back into the lineup once he got off suspension!!
by Jason H. on Sep 19, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
God, I hope not
Steroids or not, Chael does not deserve a rematch. It’s not like the 1’st Edgar/ Penn or Shogun/ Machida matches, where there was a closely contested & controversial decision; he got choked. After frontrunning for 95% of the fight, he still got triangled.
He shouldn’t be anywhere near a title fight until he proves he can defend against basic submissions. I say they match him up with Maia again if/ when he returns.
Then, you consider that Chael was juiced up & Silva had injured ribs, it makes his case even weaker.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 19, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
not as much as a reward to him, but to Anderson, giving him a chance to silent the critics who are, without a doubt, keep saying he has no answers to wrestlers. Chael Sonnen is pretty much the only good wrestler MW has now, and if the rematch never happens and no other wrestler challenges Silva and he retires, than his legacy will be damaged.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
His legacy was damaged by winning an amazing fight? I disagree, but respect your opinion.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
no
I don’t think his legacy is damaged, but come on, you know how many Chael Sonnen fans there are and how many people hate AS. I just wish he could have another shot of putting him to sleep without much effort and being 100% healthy, at least that would silence the critics. on the other thread you already see them saying AS has no TDD, no matter if he fought a roid user or not…
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
you know how many Chael Sonnen fans there are and how many people hate AS.
Anderson could hit a 87 hit juggle combo on Chael that ended in a KO and these people would still hate him.
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
by Tonley on Sep 19, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
but at least we could call them out on their ignorance, as it stands right now, they do have an argument regarding his TDD, no matter how roided up he was and no matter Anderson’s claim to have an injured rib. if a rematch ever occurs in which AS dominates Chael throughout the fight, their arguments would no longer hold water.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
but then all of the sudden chael takes him down and
C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!!
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Oh, that’s a rec. Beautifully done.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
CagesideSeats.com
Follow me on Twitter at GenoMrosko
The fight was amazing because Sonnen beat the shit out of him for 4.5 rounds before Silva’s last-minute comeback. I don’t think Silva’s legacy was damaged but his aura of nigh-invincibility certainly was.Didn’t he KO an ex-LHW champion? Didn’t people want to see him face Shogun in a superfight? Weren’t there people out there clamoring for him to even move up to HW and face Frank Mir (I think Silva himself lobbied for that fight)? Now he still has some things to prove even at MW.
Beat the shit out of him? What fight did you watch?
For a guy who got the “shit beat out of him” Anderson sure didn’t look like he had been in a fight.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
How many times do we have to hear this?
Some guys bruise, cut, and bleed easier. It’s always been the case and always will be the case. What somebody looks like after a fight isn’t the end all to how well they did. I’m sure we all could easily list people who prove that point from both sides if we wanted…
by Empty Thoughts on Sep 19, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
When was Anderson close to being finished?
When did you watch the fight and say “Oh man, he’s done”. Never. I watched Shane Carwin “beat the shit” out of Lesnar and lose. I watched Todd Duffee “beat the shit” out of Russow and lose. Chael Sonnen did not beat the shit out of Silva. Period. By any scale.
“But he set the record for punches”
Outside of a handful of them, they did fuck all.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
You sure you watched the same fight as the rest of us? Didn’t you see the first round?
http://www.upsidedowndog.co.cc
by Jontyy on Sep 19, 2010 5:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The first round where he caught Silva off-balance with a punch?
Sure I saw that and then I saw Silva get right up and look fine. I saw Chael “land” shots standing that didn’t make Silva flinch. And then I saw him take him down and hit him. He did not get the shit beat out of him.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll let you believe what you want,
I’ll let you believe what you want as you obviously just have a mad on about Chael judging by your posts on him recently. But, I think you are really down playing the fight that Chael put on against Anderson when you say he didn’t beat the shit out of him. It might not have been as vicious looking as what Carwin or Duffee put on, but it was just as dominating until the loss.
As for their doing ‘fuck all’, I’d say unless you were on the receiving end of them I’d say you really have no clue what they did. Personally from watching the fight I’d say they did quite a bit more than that and it’s really just being disingenuous to say otherwise. Down playing what Chael did to Anderson only downplays even more what Anderson did to Chael. It’s disrespectful to both of them…
by Empty Thoughts on Sep 19, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He beat up Silva. No question
He did not beat the shit out of Silva.
If you beat the shit out of someone, you’re close to finishing them. People watching are saying “how is he holding on?” like Lesnar, like Russow.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
didn’t sherk get an immediate title shot after his suspension
shit if i recall correctly they even brought him into the cage with bj to hype the fight while he was still suspended
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Sep 19, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The question is, what did he take and what for? Some of the so called PEDs are used to help fighters heal faster. The UFC of course has a major interest in letting that slide in order to avoid even more card-shuffling than they have to do already. If you can call it cheating if somebody uses an illegal drug to enter the cage at 90% instead of 70% (or whatever) is up for debate as well.
I know we’re gonna see denial and some sort of “excuse” that may or may not be the truth in any way and that makes it hard not to assume he’s guilty no matter what. Still I feel that the implied assumptions that go with your assumed suspension-time and the UFC “sending a message” are a bit premature, however high the chances for them turning out to be justified may be.
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
Personally I thought it would have been more suitable that he had 1 least 1 bout before getting a rematch like the Bisping/Akiyama winner.
Food goes in here
As huge of a Chael fan that I am, if it comes back true that he really did test positive for illegal enhancers then he does not deserve an immediate rematch. Give it to Belfort
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
by Noah'sArk on Sep 19, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Consider this, if Chael won, it would’ve been a NC (or a loss?), so Chael was never close to winning anything, no need for a stupid rematch anymore.
I'm a lover not a fighter
by spectaa on Sep 19, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not on the side that thinks he was on his way to winning, it was pretty clear he lost, end of story. I’m on the side of silencing Anderson’s critiques, that’s it…
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Irony, they name is Chael
“He [Anderson Silva] wears these tiny little shorts, his skin is very slippery. He’s one of these guys that greases up. So you got to get a hold of the fabric, there isn’t much there. Yeah he’s a hard guy to drag down. A lot of guys have had problems with it.”
“But he’s not the first cheater I’ve dealt with. He’s not the first guy that discovered he can soak himself in baby oil before he walks to the ring.”
█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z
by thetakeover on Sep 19, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on
We all know it was a Mexican guy that sounds and looks like Chael was the one who tested positive.
"Too much awesome on my feet."-Brian Wilson
"Time for the laser show, boys!"- Aubrey Huff
by 49er16 on Sep 19, 2010 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
I say LIBERAL SLANDER !!!! He’s not the only UFC fighter to have problems with the California State Athletic Commission remember Sean Sherk he passed a polygraph saying he didn’t take anything.
Polygraphs are pseudoscience, brah.
by gavingavinkindgavin on Sep 19, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
yes but after sherks suspension
he still got an immediate title shot
shit they even brought him in the ring while he was still suspended to hype the fight
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Sep 19, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn’t in to MMA back then, but everyone who was in the know says Sherk’s case was botched to high heaven
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 19, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
That's the UFC spin
CSAC made some mistakes, but Sherk tested positive. Period. Otherwise he wouldn’t have been suspended at all.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
One of there mistakes
Was testing a glass of water which also tested positive.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Wait, what?
And how recent was this? Was it within the last two years?
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
That's some high quality H20
I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.
Cheal that troll
hope hes goes away
Sonnen Hows the McDonald's Black belt ?
What an odd angle
to orient the whole article with a comparison to pro wrestling, just because of Sonnen’s fight hyping antics.
You’re just trying to give Luke Thomas a nervous twitch at this point, aren’t you?
Going to be hard to do
I know the overlap is grossly overstated. Every sport is grappling with athletes who are using PEDs. There are just of cadre of folks in this sport, smart as they may be, are just overly committed to the idea that the universes are intertwined. They aren’t, but they can’t be talked out of it, so they are free to write what they like. Won’t change my opinion…or reality.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Sep 19, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
The people who run the sport of MMA understand what it is – even if others are in denial.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I think pro wrestling
is relevant in this instance because it’s clearly the area, along with baseball, where PEDs have done the most harm. If Chael had a head injury the article would be “MMA is more like the NFL than we thought”
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 19, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s a bad title too. Why not stick to facts?
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Sep 19, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If I touch him, he goes down!
-Vitor Belfort
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
And I fully believe this will happen
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
naw, he can’t touch him
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
by Orcus on Sep 19, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Franklin, Hendo, Sonnen, Maia have all landed on him, I have no doubt Belfort can to and when he does it have worse intentions behind his punches
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
I was just joking
I just don’t think Belfort has the power to KO him before getting clipped himself
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I think there are many fighters that would disagree with that statement. I think he has a better chance to KO Anderson than any fighter Anderson’s previously faced. My only concerns with Vitor is will he wilt if he starts getting hit or if the fight doesn’t end in the first two rounds.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
my problem with Vitor
is that he lacks heart. He can/will hit Silva, but I’d imagine he will get hit himself with sharp strikes, to which he will then fold….
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I also worry that since Vitor has become much more of a counter striker the fight could become slow with Anderson and he’d then try to become overagressive later in the fight and that could cost him. Anderson doesn’t exactly have one punch KO power but rather he hits guys with several accurate strikes and puts them out. I believe Vitor has the speed to avoid those and I don’t really question his chin that much even if he does get hit. Anderson I don’t think can afford to really get hit much by Vitor.
Vitor’s heart is a little hard to judge at this point in his career because before he had so much personal tragedy in his life it was easy for his demons to get the best of him in his fights. At the moment, he seems a revitalized and determined man who is a much stronger person. A focused Vitor Belfort is a scary thought.
His biggest kryptonite is always going to be a strong wrestler
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Shouldn’t your first concern be: will he win against Okami or botch his title-shot before it materializes? He’s coming off… how long a layoff after all?
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
Its fun following the Six Degrees of Dana White’s Fault.
Chael takes illegal drugs – other people have taken illegal drugs – Dana didn’t kill any of them – thus it’s Dana’s fault Chael took illegal drugs.
Mirko hurt his eye in training – people deny the story – Dana White denies the story – Dana is the evil genius mastermind of all media – thus Dana probably stabbed Mirko in the eye to begin with.
A brawl at Strikeforce Houston – Dana White went to Houston once in the early 90s – The early 90s was the era of MC Hammer – Thus Dana White instigated the brawl with a Hammer.
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
by Stanlee on Sep 19, 2010 11:33 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
Not nearly as sweet as Dana White’s personal friends who rush to his defense upon the slightest affront
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 19, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I thought we were friends, Tony ;-(
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
We were
until you called me “Tony”. I will never, EEEEEVER (Chris Jericho voice), go by what people call my dad!
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 19, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a shame
I hate this because it tarnishes a fight that was the most memorable in years. That’s a great fight that will now forever be associated with PED’s.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 11:33 AM EDT reply actions 10 recs
I thought was fight of the year until today. At least Sonnen’s malfeasance doesn’t tarnish Silva’s brilliant comeback.
If anything, it makes it more miraculous!
Bad ribs, opponent pops for roids, and he still pulls off a hail mary sub? Can we start up the AS is invincible train again?
o·pin·ion –noun
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
by WarToney on Sep 19, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
the train never stopped
it only had a few people getting off of it
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
by Orcus on Sep 19, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was always firmly in the camp that Sonnen didn’t have a chance. Turns out he had a hell of a chance but still lost.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
CagesideSeats.com
Follow me on Twitter at GenoMrosko
by Geno Mrosko on Sep 19, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
but his chance was by cheating and against a rib bruised Silva :p
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Haha.
Well played, sir. Silva looks even more untouchable.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
CagesideSeats.com
Follow me on Twitter at GenoMrosko
by Geno Mrosko on Sep 19, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
And apparently Sonnen was fighting with testicular cancer, so it’s even.
by John Nash on Sep 19, 2010 12:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 8 recs
...
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 19, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
like me, except I didn’t board the Sonnen train, the Aloe Vera train is much more reliable if you ask me!
by MrTechnique420 on Sep 19, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
snowden,
no it wont
"How you expect to run with the wolves come night when you spend all day sparring with the puppies" - Omar Little
by The Omaplatapus on Sep 19, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Its Diaz/Gomi all over again.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
and Diaz’s illegal substance wasn’t the one that makes you talk like Keanu Reeves
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 19, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow....I didn't expect this at all...
that fight? forever ruined.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
really?
"How you expect to run with the wolves come night when you spend all day sparring with the puppies" - Omar Little
by The Omaplatapus on Sep 19, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
re: hypocrisy
I’ll just say that if I see Chael walking into a bathroom in the Minneapolis airport, I’m going in the other direction.
by Jahbulon on Sep 19, 2010 11:36 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
hah! I still get a kick out of his anti BJJ line about not being comfortable being under another man because he’s a republican. Apparently, Republicans enjoy being between another man’s legs in the junk-on-junk position.
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
by Stanlee on Sep 19, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
As a wrestler
Chael certainly has a wide stance
█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z
CSAC
Hasn’t every UFC fighter that has been popped for banned substances been caught by CSAC?
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Barnett, Sylvia, Kimo, Belfort, Bonnar, Cope were all NSAC if I recall correctly. Probably others as well.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Though now that I post that, I realize you were probably referring to his fight with Couture.
How sad is it that a fighter has tested positive enough times that one can get confused about which incident you’re talking about on the subject?
by CstBoog on Sep 19, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Well we all know the Zuffa influence on the NSAC
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
What the hell does that even mean?
They’ve had fighters test positive in Nevada, so I don’t really get what you are trying to say.
I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.
When was the last PED positive in Nevada?
Now think about how many fighters fight and how little positive tests.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Seeing as how much edge PED's seemed to give Sonnen.
And how dominant AS has been against EVERYONE else he has faced. Perhaps the UFC (at least the MW division) is cleaner than you think.
o·pin·ion –noun
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
by WarToney on Sep 20, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
lack of info
What drug did they find? Without that information it’s hard to determine wether I should hate him or something else.
Do you really need the drug information...
to know you should hate him?
I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.
Here's what will happen
1. Chael will deny he took anything and blame the CSAC for a bad test.
2. Chael will serve his suspension.
3. Belfort will fight Silva
4. Chael will return and while not getting a title shot will be put in a number one contenders match.
And is it just me or is the CSAC starting to get more thorough/strict in their testing policies? If this keeps up I wonder how soon it is before fighters start declining fights in Cali?
by John Nash on Sep 19, 2010 11:40 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I meant since Bill Douglas replaced Armando Garcia. Is it just me or haven’t they been much more by the books in their precedures and testing policies?
although the CAMO amateur policy is a joke
by John Nash on Sep 19, 2010 12:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They may be getting more strict, but...
How do you know they’re not just picking up stuff in perfectly fine things like flu medication that contain elements that could be used also to mask PEDs? What if they’re getting false positives?
by Polyhedron on Sep 19, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The fighter has a responsibility to know what they are taking...PERIOD
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
What if they claim they’re taking said medication so they can give a reason for a false positive?
by John Nash on Sep 19, 2010 7:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Exactly. I wouldn't put it past Chael to say he had the flu so if he did fail, he could claim medicine
I mean he did set up plants in the audience to ask him questios
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
What is your obsession with the plants thing?
It’s not a big deal nor is it something new that he came up with.
by Empty Thoughts on Sep 20, 2010 5:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Snowden, how about you change the title to something more relevant
like “Chael Sonnen tests positive for PEDS” ? I nearly ignored this story due to the “Pro Wrestler” in the title.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Sep 19, 2010 11:42 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
i thought it was just another "Chael planted fans" post.....
now, i wish it had been.
can another butt hurt chael fan post the internet stick figure screaming “fuuuuuuuuuuuuuu” for me?
#9 has the most incredible 4 yard gain in the history of the NFL.
Trane UFC for maximum death fighting abilities, brah.
Why the headline is what it is
This is a follow-up post. The breaking news version of the story was covered by Anton here, under the headline "Chael Sonnen Fails His UFC 117 Drug Test, Positive for PEDs. "
█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z
by thetakeover on Sep 19, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Ohhhhhhhh
Sorry, didn’t see that.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Sep 19, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I now sit in wait for
the Subo article that calls this the last straw before he swears off the UFC.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
CagesideSeats.com
Follow me on Twitter at GenoMrosko
by Geno Mrosko on Sep 19, 2010 11:50 AM EDT reply actions 15 recs
subo has been transferred to an undisclosed location until this whole thing blows over.
by smoogy2 on Sep 19, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is silly
I don’t like anyone doing PED’s, ever, at all – in fact, it’s one of the main reasons I hate Japanese MMA. This is – if confirmed, not appealed, etc – Sonnen’s first positive. He will be suspended, shamed, moved down the pecking order (he probably just lost his title shot and if he doesn’t, he should).
Josh Barnett >>>>>>> Chael Sonnen in terms of abusing steroids.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana should send a message
that this type of behavior is not acceptable.
Bottom line, Sonnen cheated. They should not be rewarded title matches.
This should be a no brainer for Dana. Send this smuck back to the back of the line. If Sonnen is truly the best like he says he is, let him show us, by winning PED free. And if not, then Dana really doesn’t care about not only the health of his fighters, but the legitimacy of MMA
by devious1 on Sep 19, 2010 11:53 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
so the nfl isnt legit?
"How you expect to run with the wolves come night when you spend all day sparring with the puppies" - Omar Little
by The Omaplatapus on Sep 19, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
the NFL suspends there players
for testing positive for banned substances.
They are also a bigger sport then MMA.
Do you think the UFC needs this type of attention when a lot of people still consider this sport in its infancy?
by devious1 on Sep 19, 2010 12:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
STAMP OUT COUGH BOTTLES Grrr
Is Silva giving Chael an Irish Whip in the accompanying photo?
About Sherk
I think we can all agree Sean Sherk wasn’t juicing. He submitted many different tests including polygraphs to prove he didn’t use and that the equipment that they use in Cali wasn’t working properly. Why else would the committee drop his suspension by 6 months? They know they screwed up and couldn’t completely admit they were wrong otherwise every positive test that came back would be called into question.
And of course Snowden blames pro-wrestling. Yup, I bet Sonnen studied under the Rock and Steve Austin on how to sell fights AND shoot up.
by Josh Grant on Sep 19, 2010 11:58 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think we can agree on that at all. Sorry.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Pressure from promoters. Ineptitude. My favorite was James Toney getting his suspension cut in half by insulting the commission.
by VirtualBalboa on Sep 19, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Commissions frequently reduce the length of a suspension to six months.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
If he can stand across from Anderson Silva without blinking he can beat a polygraph.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
CagesideSeats.com
Follow me on Twitter at GenoMrosko
by Geno Mrosko on Sep 19, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Its not a lie, Jerry, if you believe it.
I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.
Just driving around town in Jon Voight’s LeBaron
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
No, it's John Voight
With an H.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Sometimes I spell Jerry with a G
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll tell you a little secret about zip codes. They're meaningless.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Shouldnt the bucket be on your head?
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Who's going to turn down a junior mint? It's chocolate, it's minty, it's very refreshing!
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
ditto
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Sep 19, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Please don’t bring up polygraph tests as some sort of evidence on anything. They’re complete bullshit should not be used by anyone, other than perhaps for tacky entertainment purposes.
by Horselover Fat on Sep 19, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Why else would the committee drop his suspension by 6 months?
They also halved James Toney’s suspension because he yelled at them and claimed “he don’t need steroids to beat anybody”. One of the commissioners, a Toney fan, commented on his “spectacular career” and wanted to reduce the suspension even further to only 4 months. So to answer your question, who knows why the CSAC does any of the crazy stuff they do?
Correct me if I'm wrong,
but that was even on the same day that Hermes Franco showed up to give a contrite and apologetic speech for his PED hearing. His suspension was left unchanged at 9 months.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
c'mon
"How do you shoot the devil in the back? What if you miss?"
by DamnSevern on Sep 19, 2010 12:10 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
Man, these PED tests take a long time
Anybody know why?
█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z
They are meticulous
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Sep 19, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
lots of dead wrestlers
disagree with you.
█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z
by thetakeover on Sep 19, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Can you cite any cases?
Where a wrestler’s death was directly attributed to steroid use? And in those cases, how exactly did the steroids cause the individual’s death. That is, through what biological mechanism?
Sure
Here is a list of Pro Wrestler deaths that are attributable to the “often lethal cocktail of steroids, growth hormone, and pain killers that keep their bodies artificially able to give one hundred percent” referred to in the post.
█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z
by thetakeover on Sep 19, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hmmm...
“The words mean just what they say. Very few of the deaths on the list could be blamed 100% on the wrestling business and very few have a 0% blame. Wrestlers on the list have died for varied reasons including drugs, accidents, murder, and diseases unrelated to drug abuse.”
also
“What the List is Not:
1 – A steroid list. Despite this list scrolling on news channels when they discuss steroids killing wrestlers, not all of the wrestlers on this list died due to steroid related issues.”
BOOSH
Let's try again
Please cite a case where a wrestler’s death was directly attributed to steroid use and provide the biological mechanism that caused it. Your list provided neither.
Pro wrestlers die prematurely from a variety of reasons, not the least of which is being in a very dangerous and damaging profession. Check out this piece on head trauma:
http://www.cagesideseats.com/2009/12/9/1193283/wrestling-and-head-trauma-more
Steroids are just something for the media and people who don’t know any better to latch on to. Their use is RAMPANT throughout professional sports, but you don’t hear about all the premature deaths in,say, baseball because of steroids.
by Pantherhare on Sep 20, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Alcohol doesn't kill drunk drivers either...
its the impact…but that doesn’t mean the alcohol isn’t responsible.
I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.
Please don't tell me you're referring to "roid rage"
And regardless if you are, please tell me of all the wrestlers’ deaths where steroids were “responsible.”
by Pantherhare on Sep 20, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
No.
The point here is that steroids allow you to push your body further than you would normally be able to. Say… through a concussion… or two… keep going, now you’re there.
o·pin·ion –noun
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
by WarToney on Sep 20, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
So?
Did any of those bodybuilders die? And what other dangerous stuff were they taking? (insulin, snythol, HGH, diuretics, etc.)
I’m not saying that steroids are risk-free (any pharmaceutical carries with it side effects), it’s just that there’s a lot of overblown hype about their danger.
by Pantherhare on Sep 20, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
If taken legally and correctly there is very little risk for certain drugs
The biggest problems I have found are 2-fold, one on the supplier end and one on the user end.
The first, as with any drug people are forced to obtain from the black market, at the end of the day, unless they manufactured it themselves or it is stolen trackable legitimate product, the user has NO idea what they are really taking, what else is in it, or how pure/strong it is.
The second problem is the mentality that “if 10mg helps that much, think what 100mg will do.” Even if the gains were linear (and they are not), that is a foolish mentality, but when someone is taking 10x or 20x the safe dose, just to get an extra 10%-20% of gain (not overall, just of gains) it is beyond stupid. Unfortunately this is a widespread problem.
When the rule of thumb for some drugs is to back of the dose a little when you start to piss blood, something is very wrong with that mindset.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
As for being well rounded... "The fox devises many strategies, the hedgehog only one, but he uses it very effectively." -Archilochus
by BigDNotDallas on Sep 20, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Disappointing
I just don’t trust any of these fighters not to be cheating now.
Sonnen is a hypocrite after all his classless talk about Lance Armstrong.
He is also an higly opinionated fraud who should keep his mouth shut.There’s asaying about people in glass houses………
Unbelievable.
Oh wow.
Sonnen not only showed the MMA community the pro wrestling industry’s promotional punch, he also showed the hidden side of pro wrestling’s continued success.
Does anyone recognize the absolute hypocrsy here? The man who goes on enraged rants both in print and in person about how Sonnen isn’t doing a pro wrestling schtick, and how MMA and wrasslin’ are completely different, decides he wants to use it in one of his “commentaries”. From the looks of things, it must be ok to compare MMA and WWE if it fits into an attempt at a low-blow on pro wrestling, but not in any serious context about promotion of events.
You know what's really fun? Not being a raving lunatic. Give it a try some time, you might just like it!
Live previews and reviews of all major fights! LightsOutRadio.com
Ah, I think you're right
My apologies to Mr. Snowden.
You know what's really fun? Not being a raving lunatic. Give it a try some time, you might just like it!
Live previews and reviews of all major fights! LightsOutRadio.com
Alright, Neil
time for you to head on back to 4Real…
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 19, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
lol, awesome comment from a poster at Mania
Chael’s New Poem…..
I was ahead for a while but you still beat me,
I love to cheat my steroids complete me,
I talked all kinds of shit to hype the fight up,
I totally forgot i’d have to piss in a cup,
I am sorry for saying it was you who broke,
I wasn’t thinking clearly I was high on coke,
I’ve got fists like WMD’s,
As long as I pop lots of PE Mothuafuckin D’sssssss.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
by Orcus on Sep 19, 2010 1:00 PM EDT reply actions 10 recs
agreed
his fight build up = cocaine rants for sure.
Twitter @i_c_u_hater
http://dreamthemez.wordpress.com
http://dreamthemez.unfilteredmma.com
http://fightlife.unfilteredmma.com
by Thats It For you! on Sep 19, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
???
Very sad and shameful if true ? I am reserving all judgement until I hear Chaels side of the the story and things playh out more. If it was any other state it would be idfferent but its the dam CSAC – bottom line. There are fighters in Bolth Boxing and MMA who refuse to even fight on a show in Cali becasue how tarnished and tainted there Athletic commission’s reputation is.
UFC employs cheaters?
According to UFC fans only Strikeforce does this? Let’s hear the UFC nut huggers spin this into a positive for the UFC!
yeah you go 110 South!
This makes sense! or something…wait…
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Between this and MMA being filled with lay-and-pray
I think you’re a troll.
Mo Johnston finally fired. Let the house cleaning and road to success begin.
Nate Marquardt’s twitter:
Ok so sounds like it’s confirmed that Sonnen failed drug test when he fought Silva. Apparently he was taking meds 4 flu n that made positive. And also these websites post stuff that’s not true or confirmed sometimes. We will have to see. Time will tell.
Is it possible to get a false positive? Does anyone know why the results seemed to have taken so long? Maybe not the results, but at least publishing them.
"Girls are mean." Lisa Ward
It is easy to
accidentally take over the counter meds (that contain banned substance) for everyday use. The list is long includes things found in your medicine cabinet. But who knows what is going on here. After reading everything on Sherk he is the only one I think didn’t use.
Nate knows what it’s like to be accused of taking PEDs, so he’s full of empathy. I bet that Belfort also prays for Sonnen right now.
"...I don't want to save the World, I don't even want to save me. We're so boring that we don't event want to save ourselves...There's nothing left to say, we're so fucking boring. Let it die I say. Let there be a new beginning...It's awful. Goodnight"
by dancingChicken on Sep 19, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Ephedrine is definitely considered a performance enhancer.
by Horselover Fat on Sep 19, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
ephedrine if i’m not mistaken is a diuretic
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Sep 19, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a stimulant, similar to amphetamines or caffeine etc..
by Horselover Fat on Sep 19, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep, Dexter Manley told me he used to pop Sudafeds like crazy
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I remember Chael saying that he was getting over the flu right before the fight… could play into that.
"Girls are mean." Lisa Ward
Or could be a good cover story.
Which is why some over the counter meds are on the list, they can be used to mask PED use.
I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.
LOL @ the spin
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Am I spinning this?
I know you don’t like Sonnen, but I can’t imagine him taking PED’s. I think this actually might be a false positive situation.
"Girls are mean." Lisa Ward
Your story could likely be the narrative.
Team Quest sees themselves as winners. No matter what, they have a drive to win. Think Lindland suing to get into the Olympics. That’s where I see this going.
Some people will never forgive Chael for simply being accused. Some people will change their mind based on news to come out in the coming days. But I doubt that this ends up looking pretty and going away like Carwin or Cole Province.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
It doesn’t make sense.
Did Sonnen just start taking PED’s or has he been taking them his entire career and not get caught? All those years of wrestling, being an alternate on the US Olympic wrestling team, mma and all the testing he’s had done — he tests positive now? Why would he start taking PED’s for the biggest fight of his life? It just doesn’t make sense.
"Girls are mean." Lisa Ward
why would he start taking PEDs for the biggest fight of his life?
i guess because it’s the biggest fight of his life
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh comeon. That’s a weak response. You should know better.
What about his matches right before becoming an All American wrestler? That wasn’t big enough to take PED’s? National and world championships aren’t big enough for PED’s? His fights against Paulo Filho? Those are all reasons to take PED’s and he never tested positive. I really think it’s a false positive. If not, then he royally screwed up.
"Girls are mean." Lisa Ward
i'm not saying those weren't big fights
just not the biggest of his life. This was the defining fight of his career, all american wrestler/ paulo filho aside. I’m not happy about this…i hate the idea of PEDs in MMA, but am realistic in the belief that they are prevalent.
The backne…that’s not definitive evidence, but hey, there it is in photos. His saying he had the flu beforehand and was taking medicine for it? Could be a cover just in case he popped positive, in case this was his first time cycling and did it incorrectly.
Either way, it’s all speculation i guess. I personally hope its a false positive but we may never know
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
similar to being accused of a violent crime
being acquitted doesn’t erase the stigma that he was accused. Really, really sucks for sonnen
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
With all due respect, your reasoning on this is very strange Keren. Stop for a minute and think about what you’re writing here.. you seem to base it purely on your instinct that Sonnen isn’t that type of guy, even though it’s been proved many times before that those types of guys are just as likely to test positive. As the other poster said, why wouldn’t he start taking PED’s for the biggest fight of his life? What is to say he hasn’t been using them before? I see nothing about Sonnen that screams “not guilty”, if the tests say he did them the logical thing to do is to assume he actually did, not make up excuses based on nothing at all.
by Horselover Fat on Sep 19, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya know
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I was trying to not make a tautology — if it sounded like it, my apologies.
The point I was trying to make clear was that Sonnen has had a long career where he would be tested for almost all of it tested. It would be odd to think that he would now test positive. By all means, he could be taking PED’s but, in my opinion, it seems odd that he would be tested positive now. Is that clearer?
"Girls are mean." Lisa Ward
Brock Lesnar has had a long career where he would be tested for almost all of it.
And yet that doesn’t stop people from accusing him of usage and he hasn’t failed a test unlike Sonnen.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
i guess clearer
but still the argument doesn’t hold much water. This was the biggest fight of his career, i don’t see how that creates an argument that he didn’t take roids
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
True, it just seems so irresponsible for a fighter, to possibly win the belt, take PED’s — the possibility of getting caught and getting your belt stripped? No one will ever forget that. But he could have.
"Girls are mean." Lisa Ward
You mean like Sherk? Or Barnett?
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the equivalent of jamming your fingers in your ears and humming.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
It's quite sad the level that Sonnenites go to
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Shun the non believers?
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I recognize the fact that he very well could have and could be taking PED’s.
Silly.
"Girls are mean." Lisa Ward
but your argument makes it sound like it is silly
“Why would he take PEDs for the biggest fight of his career when he hasn’t tested positive before?”
That’s a huge logical fallacy. Prior actions predicting current situations.
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
How about Sonnen tired of fighting and not going anywhere with it? Maia kicks his ass
So he decides to change that.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Maia kicks his ass by BJJ technique and he says to himself: “Man, I think I need steroids to keep that from happening”? Your opinion of Sonnen’s mental capacity must be horrible. ;)
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
Maia actually took Chael down
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Maias wonderful throw-with-transition-to-triangle was more than just a mere takedown ;) But I still doubt Chael was thinking “if only I had roided, he would never have used leverage and technique against me!!”. All of the normal TD attempts from Maia were easily stuffed by Sonnen.
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
Not you spinning...the UFC fam protecting the fam
Even though you’re still banned
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m part of the UFC fam? Wish I knew about that… and wish I were getting a paycheck from the fam, too.
"Girls are mean." Lisa Ward
It's ok
If you disagree with SC, you must have something wrong with you. I have the same affliction.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope. There's a few folks that disagree with me that have nothing wrong with them (that I know of)
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Your hubby might not like that. We’ll need a lock of some sort on the treehouse.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
woah
Your hubby might not like that. We’ll need a lock of some sort on the treehouse.
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 19, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. Yes he did.
Apparently she didn’t love his nuts.
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 19, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
And Shamwows are not as absorbent as claimed
when dealing with hooker blood all over a hotel room.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Personal experience?
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 19, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Swing and a miss, sir.
Zorbeez 4 lyfe.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
These days I just don't know what to buy
without the “HI, BILLY MAYS HERE!” stamp of approval
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 19, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Don West?
GEM MINT 10
MICHAEL JORDAN ROOKIE CARD
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, not you. Nate. You posted Nate's quote. LOL
I said “not you spinning”. As in not you. You posted Nate’s words. Nate, the UFC fighter. Spinning. Him. The spinner.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you? LOL. Wasn't me.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
but you said banned...
i’m so confused
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Long story short
I banned her because she’s married. But I can’t actually ban, so if she is banned, it wasn’t me.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't tell me what to do woman
You’re banned
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Giggity
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Look at the pictures posted in the comments.
Fight after fight you can literally see his physique getting bigger and bigger and his bacne getting to the point that it looks like chicken pox.
A lot of cold, flu and sinus medicine can get yo popped for opiates, Amphetamines, meth and even pot.
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
Can’t get PEDs? Find a cat with cancer take it to the vet and bam PED’s galore. You just have to look the cat in the eyes when you take his cancer meds.
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
wait wait
which medicine can get you popped for pot? Some of them contain substances that form the same metabolites as amphetamines do (see meth/coke) but they can’t give you a false positive for pot.
Poppy seeds can give you a false positive for some prescription pills/heroine.
But canibids…well, those pretty much just come from canibis.
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
ignore that last part of the comment
canibids do not necessarily just come from pot, but everything else stands
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Synthetic cannabinoids won’t make you pee dirty.
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
there you go then
as much as it sucks, pot is pot
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Except when its synthetic
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
in reference to drug tests
you piss canibinoids, its likely you came into contact with real marijuana, is what i meant
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Funny, I just finished re-reading Chuck Palahniuk’s “Survivor” the other day, and in that book the main character who is full of weird info has that exact tip on how to get steroids from vets! Maybe there is were you took it from? Excellent book by the way, recommend it.
by Horselover Fat on Sep 19, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
chuck palahniuk is fucking awesome
choke is a fantastic book
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
i never thought of it like that
but that’s hilariously spot on
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah for sure, one of my favorite authors. Choke is extremely good, yes! Might have to dig up that one to read next.
by Horselover Fat on Sep 19, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
haven't read survivor yet
currently buying it for my kindle
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
It owns Choke but so does Invisible Monsters
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Invisible Monsters is one of my favorites, but it seems like no one has read it! They keep talking about making it a movie. Eh.
"Girls are mean." Lisa Ward
I like it very much, the book that is. About movies, Fight Club was obviously excellent, but Choke was extremely mediocre.. depends on who does it, in which way, and what kind of budget it get and so on.
by Horselover Fat on Sep 19, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
It was so hard for me to watch Choke. The book is so funny — plus it had Sam Rockwell and Angelica Houston. Love them both, but the movie was slow.
Re: Invisible Monsters, I keep hearing that Jessica Biel will play the lead. I really hope not.
"Girls are mean." Lisa Ward
The tranny or the butterface?
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Er… the one without a face. I don’t want to say more and ruin the book for others. It’s really great.
I think no matter what role Biel would be in it would be the wrong one. She’s just a bad actress.
"Girls are mean." Lisa Ward
One of the best twists I’ve read, all thought of while he was doing research for Choke at sex addicts meeting
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I just wrote this at the bottom but I feel ripped off because I thought I saw something incredible in Oakland. Turns out I did not.
I could be sitting here with just pee stains on my rug.
by Earl Montclair on Sep 19, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m waiting to see what substance it was. I take nothing away from Diaz’s win over Gomi because of a failed test for pot
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, its already out that it wasn’t a drug of abuse, so…
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
I wonder why I had a case of the endless giggles when the Shane Carwin PED story surfaced but now with Chael I just feel kinda sick?
I could be sitting here with just pee stains on my rug.
by Earl Montclair on Sep 19, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Just found out your broman has another friend that he considers his bff?
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
You have a new bff?
I could be sitting here with just pee stains on my rug.
by Earl Montclair on Sep 19, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Shit happens when you party naked.
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s cool man, Ill give you a hall pass on this one
I could be sitting here with just pee stains on my rug.
by Earl Montclair on Sep 19, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
because Sonnen’s public persona was “asshole”, whereas Carwins had become “douchebag”.
to the public, asshole > douchebag
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 19, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel like Sonnen was more of a sunuvabitch
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
I think Kos has a firm grip on that title
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Kos was on the Ellis show on sirius and he was as humble and nice as could be. It was very weird for me to hear. Guess he wasnt turning up the asshole knob to 11 for fight promotion on that occasion
I could be sitting here with just pee stains on my rug.
by Earl Montclair on Sep 19, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually fucking love Koscheck.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Same here
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s like the Philip Rivers of MMA
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Key difference
Koscheck will be playing for a title in the winter.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
HA
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
sad but true. We Charger fans have gotten used to this though.
I could be sitting here with just pee stains on my rug.
by Earl Montclair on Sep 19, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
If Matthews pans out
You never know. Kid seems sensitive though. He seems like he’d be happier as a baker.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
haha
I am a huge Rivers supporter. Maybe I should take another look at this Koscheck fellow….
I could be sitting here with just pee stains on my rug.
by Earl Montclair on Sep 19, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Rivers was money for me in Fantasy Football last season
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 19, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
can't lie
I dig Koscheck
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 19, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Shane’s public persona was a classy, humble, freakish KO power having ray of sunshine. Only hardcores have option to look at him through the douchebag lens because of what we read.
I could be sitting here with just pee stains on my rug.
by Earl Montclair on Sep 19, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank Fincher for Fight Club. He sat on PItt’s porch late one night waiting for the actor to get home. So in the middle of the night he pitches the movie idea and lands the deal. Here is some trivia Radiohead was wanted for the soundtrack before Dust Bros
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Radiohead circa ’99 woulda been dope for that soundtrack
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 19, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I am a mark for Radiohead but I think the Dust Brothers nailed it.
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
also
Johnny Greenwood’s score for TWBB was so freakin awesome
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 19, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
There Will Be Blood was just fucking awesome in general
But that score was incredible.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
The book was pretty damn amazing too
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Greenwood got robbed at the Oscars. Like other people haven’t sampled before? Please. Almost all music is sampled from other stuff
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 19, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Its like these bitches ain’t ever heard Paul’s Boutique before.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
To bring it full circle, Paul’s Boutique was produced by Dust Brothers!
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 19, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Chuck Palahniuk’s friend really did do that and it’s not that uncommon in the bodybuilding world.
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The UFC dodged two serious bullets this summer
What would the reaction be if Carwinj and Chael had won? Having to strip two champions for steroid use within a month of each other is seriously bad PR for the sport.
If this is true
I love him even more…he is good for entertainment purposes!
I come home drunk as hell
After karaoke, possibly my best non sex night in years, pop open twitter and see Breen tweet this. Sonnen is the ultimate buzzkill.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
There's an even worse part than the fight being tainted
Now every Internet idiot is going to start saying “lol they all do it.” No – they don’t all do it.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 3:15 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
my best guestimate
is 50 to 75%, that’s based on the comments of Dave Meltzer, Dennis Hallman and Ken Shamrock.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
You can take Shammy's credibility and get a cup of coffee with it
I simply refuse to believe it’s that pervasive and that Chael Sonnen, of all people, was too dumb to not get caught.
1) Sonnen has a long, long career, almost all of it tested – did he pass until now or just start?
2) What can the promotion really do about it? You want drug testing done out of house, independently – do they just offer AC’s the money to do more tests, different tests, year round random tests?
Something needs to be done. I don’t want any more amazing fights irreparably marred by this shit.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Mike
Why don’t you argue now that we shouldn’t care at all about PED abuse in MMA?
Oh, because it would look silly, right?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Olympic style testing needs to be done.
PED use has been around a long time, but it’s obviously increasing.
It doesn’t matter if you think this was a false positive, that Sonnen has always used or that this was his first time…this could be avoided with Olympic style testing.
Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before. -Mae West
Those who dont think Sonnen should be punished are absurd
Come on. The sport has a hard enough time as it is. Baseball took a huge hit in the pubic eye after it’s PED scandal and it is Americas pasttime. MMA isn’t even accepted by the general public yet and if a huge PED scandal hits the fan it is going to be pushed to the back burner forever.
I’m an admitted huge fan that would stop watching if the testing doesn’t improve and fighters aren’t forced to fight clean.
Sonnen needs to be suspended
He would’ve been stripped of the MW belt so this is a fair punishment. I say 6 months.
Mo Johnston finally fired. Let the house cleaning and road to success begin.
No he'll get a year
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
UFC 130: Roided
Main Event: Chael Sonnen vs. Chris Leben
Mo Johnston finally fired. Let the house cleaning and road to success begin.
Through his actions, UFC President Dana White has shown a tacit support for the abuse of performance enhancing drugs. When Sean Sherk tested positive for steroids, White wasted little time inserting the former champion immediately into his highest profile bout to date.
Classic Snowden.
When guys are getting 6-12 month suspensions from the AC, what do you propose UFC does? Tack on a few months for good measure? Make them fight on the undercard out of spite? This is silly.
not silly
the ufc does a ton of things out of spite. Cut Duffee (DUFFEE!!!!) because of shady reasons. Doesn’t give Fitch title shots due to merit. Relegates Kendall Grove off of the free prelim broadcast. its not out of the realm of possibility that they do this.
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
So basically
All the stuff people bitch about them doing, you’re saying they should do it more?
haha well...
i suppose they should do it for better reasons. I’m just pointing out a history that they do it, and that in this instance, it wouldn’t be a silly thing for them to do.
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
If you actually READ what he said and not went into anti-Snowden mode
You’d see the issue was him putting Sherk RIGHT back into the title match and not him not adding more time.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
So what should they do?
Throw him in squash match instead? Beat up some mid-carder on the undercard?
Isn’t giving the guy an easy win on their return rewarding them moreso than a hard fight they could conceivably lose? Giving them a lower tier opponent is making sure they get their show AND win bonus. How is that helpful for anyone involved?
And like I said above, should other sports be expected to do this? Baseball player on a PED suspension comes back from suspension and plays in the minors for a few seasons?
well- that would be a start
I mean, serious punishment as opposed to shoulder shrugs
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
How are easy wins
Serious punishment? It’s a financial incentive.
i agree, a very catch-22 situation
but ultimately, relegating to the undercard would hurt his financial long-term interests. Yeah he’ll get his win-show, but loses notoriety among casuals, which is ultimately what many fighters strive for
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
So it should be a career ender?
“let’s take one of our contenders who screwed up, ignore the fact that they were benched for a year, and pay them while trying to torpedo their career”
That is the goofiest thing I’ve ever heard
Who says career ender?
There has to be some penalty or they’ll keep doing it.
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry, a STRONGER penalty
clearly a 6 month suspension is not much of a deterrent.
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
12 months
Guys who test positive get 12 months the majority of the time, situations where it’s 6 (like Sherk) are where it was reduced. In Sherk’s case, the AC reduced it when on appeal it found the lab made mistakes with his sample and he likely inadvertently took tainted supplements.
For an athlete in their mid 30s, not only is a year off burning valuable career time, but it’s also a year of you not being in the fans consciousness. Nevermind the fact that the suspension alone will likely cost them a lot of fans. Do you think people are going to rush out and buy Sonnen t-shirts tomorrow?
Yes. I do believe Sonnenites will buy his shirts.
Listen to their response to the failed test. “Wait and see” “Oh if it was just flu medicine who cares?”
Let it be someone else and the comment section has over 1000.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe because we don't know what he popped for
and it’s responsible to wait for details on an evolving story?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
We know he failed
It was good enough for Barnett
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It was good enough for barnett because it was announced that he tested positive for an anabolic steroid.
Tim Credeur also had to pull out of a fight for failing a pre-fight drug test, do we treat him the same as Barnett?
Who is Tim Cru..what was his name again?
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
why does that matter? Not all drug tests are created equally. You are going to look awfully foolish if this isn’t steroids.
Wait, who said steroids? If he failed, he failed
Amphetamines are still a PED. He took an illegal substance whether purposefully or ignorantly.
If you meet a girl at a club and y’all do your thing and you find out she’s underage, you’re in trouble.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know why I’m bothering, because I can’t think of anything that could be in his blood that would make your reaction appropriate, but there are shades of gray in this discussion.
Banned is banned, and he should be punished either way, but the reaction from the general population and the UFC can, should, and will be different depending on what the drug is.
That doesn’t even really matter though, the point of this little section of the thread is to point out that your comparison to barnett is not applicable, because we knew it was steroids from second 1 with barnett, and we have no such knowledge now.
You're correct
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. You start over if you fail
Being in a title match is MUCH more rewarding for a fighter than an easy win.
Endorsement money is likely 5 times as much in a title match. His bonus for that fight will be much larger.
Stop comparing team sports to the UFC in this aspect. They have guaranteed contracts and per game salaries.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Please tell me where you get that number regarding sponsorship money.
I’d love to know.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Notice the word Likely
It’s from knowing what a fighter made on the undercard of an unaired prelim and then comparing it to a fighter of less “fame” fighting on the main card. And then guessing that fighting in a title main (with your name all in the advertising, all of that) will increase that EVEN more.
I could be lowballing.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not going to go into a long thing here,
but you are so far from being correct that the word “wrong” isn’t strong enough. C’mon, you want to act like a big boy writer? Be responsible and don’t throw out bullshit assumptions. Putting a qualifier in front of it doesn’t change anything.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Listen.
It’s a advanced form of abductive reasoning practiced by a select few scholars, logicians and critics in whose number proudly count myself.
It is called by an ancient yet timeless Anglo-Frisian term: Bullshit.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
Monks came up with bullshit? You don’t say!
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh?
I don’t understand where your question is coming from. But given the topic of discussion, I’ll just answer “Yes.”
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
I saw Frisian as Friscan, which I then made Franciscan. Still kind of happy after the beating my team just put on Seattle.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
We'll just run with that.
From now on, it was the Franciscans in England. You better back me up on that if I get called out.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
Word
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
The Moops
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I was expecting a History of the Wold Part I reference
but this was more than adequate. Well done, sir.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
That's why I was careful to put LIKELY
Because unless I talked to Sean Sherk, I wouldn’t know.
I do know that a fighter on a prelim fight with 2+ fights in the UFC took home a certain amount. I do know that a fighter with less fights that actually made the main card took home almost 3 times that amount. And it wasn’t the main or co-main. These are facts and I’m not going tnto anymore specifics about that.
Now (and this is where I’m speculating HENCE the word likely) seeing as how Sherk was in the main event of UFC 84 and knowing that fighters make MORE money in sponsorship the higher up the card. I’m speculating that the money that you get in an unaired prelim vs what you get in a main event is substantially higher. Meybe even 6 times as high. Where I got that number. I figured a main eventer would get at least double the sponsor money than a non-main eventer. And since the non-main eventer got almost 3 times what the prelim guy got, 2 times 3 equals 6. Yes there are mitigating factors that can cause that number to vary but the important point is:
YOU MAKE MORE IN A MAIN EVENT FROM SPONSORS THAN YOU DO IN PRELIMS.
Now, if you want to continue to nitpick about whether it’s 6 times or 5 times the amount, then that’s on you. The original point is that a title match (win or lose) is much more rewarding than an easy win in the prelims.
Didn’t feel like writing all that out.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
You're hopeless.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I see you've still failed to address the general argument and are stuck on trying to nitpick something and run with it
Do fighters in main events make much more in sponsorship than fighters on prelims?
If you say yes to the above, then isn’t putting him in a title match more of a reward than putting him in the prelims against an “easy win” like you say?
yes or no?
Not “you’re hopeless” or whatever non-sequiturs you want to throw out.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
And you overuse the "forest for the trees" logic.
You make outlandish claims and stupid points, then say “Well that’s not my main argument, so…”
I never disagreed with the claim that you make more sponsorship money on a main event than a prelim. You can keep deluding yourself if you like. However you wanna play it is fine. But you’re still a hopeless, lost cause.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
So then why this big nitpick about the number 6
How crucial to my point was the number 6? Not at all. Let’s say it’s not 6, but only 3. Isn’t three times as much still significant? C’mon, you didn’t even address my main argument and grabbed onto something that was contentious to deflect away from my main point being correct.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
You're wrong.
By my calculations, fighters in a title match make 17 times as much money from endorsement deals and sponsorships as non-title fighters.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
LOL Okay
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
By my calculations, Chuck Lidell in any match makes a lot more fucking money than most
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Liddell would probably make more sense
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I hear that brock Lesnar matches make some money too
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I was reppin the old school
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
It was pretty clear what I think They should do. It’s in the article.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 4:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So in your version
Nevermind that Sherk’s positive test was for various reasons considered to be at best flawed. Nobody then really thought it was a legit positive for Sherk.
Let’s forget about that part, Who comes back to a title shot instead of Sherk? You seem to have tons of commentary about the LW title and the division from that time, so let us know how you’d do it as the armchair fight promoter.
as a fight promoter, (IE making money)
It makes sense to put Sherk in. But it hurts the sport, and tacitly makes the UFC seem like they don’t care much about roids.
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Sherk who won an appeal to the AC
And had his suspension cut down? He managed to convince the AC that he was ok, but the rest of the world should keep punishing him?
But dude
He’s a professional fighter. He should know what he’s putting in his body at all times, it’s part of his job. Ignorance of the law is typically not a defense.
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
And this sends a message that
even if you get popped for roids, you can still argue that it was by mistake
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Which is why he got 6 months
and stripped of his title. For accidental ingestion
Eh, right. He never won any appeal, the CSAC still states it was a positive test and that no errors had been made. Why they chose to shorten the sentence to six months is anyones guess, but it sure as hell doesn’t mean he was clean.
by Horselover Fat on Sep 19, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
The UFC couldm have very easily sent a message to other fighters who may be using performance enhancing drugs that they would not benefit from their use and forced Sherk to take on dangerous prospects or other top lightweights. Its not as if he had dominated and cleared out the lightweight division prior to his positive. He fought in the division all of twice and never beat a fighter ranked in the top 5.
by VirtualBalboa on Sep 19, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I would make a fighter who tested positive earn their spot at the top and do so clean. I think that’s pretty clear, but trolls gotta troll I guess.
Hilarious to see revisionists try to pretend Sherk was vindicated. Okay “muscle shark” fans. We hear you.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 4:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Revisionist?
Your version of this is that Sherk was never deserving to challenge for a title at all and the UFC LW title wasn’t credible as a result. Which is funny, because I was watching then, and nobody felt that way. I was also watching during the Sherk ordeal, and the majority of people came down on the side of him being pretty much cleared.
Pot kettle black I guess, but as someone who’s supposed to be a historian, you sure seem to have an interest in twisting what actually happened into what you wanted to happen. There’s plenty of anti UFC/Zuffa sentiment out there, but you seem intent on making some up just to add icing to the cake.
Most people didn’t think he was cleared at all. That is a complete lie. I doubt you’d even find a website of roided up bodybuilders that give him much in terms of traction.
by VirtualBalboa on Sep 19, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you have a skewed version of what happened and what people thought
over time it seems to have morphed into “Sherk was cleared” or other fallaciousness
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
What does “grab the reigns” mean, though? Set up a testing protocol separate from the AC’s? Operate the testing in house and publicize what they want? Throw money at the AC’s?
I want more and better testing too, but how?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
They could very well test themselves. Its their call not to. They do it for overseas events.
by VirtualBalboa on Sep 19, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
They do, and I like that they do
They didn’t have to tell the world that Leben tested positive, but they did anyway. However, having the promotion run ALL testing is what is known as a “massive-ass conflict of interest”.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
How would the promotion running its own drug screens affect the state’s sanctioning body? I would like to hear this.
by VirtualBalboa on Sep 19, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's say the promotion gets a positive...
…and sits on it. You never hear about it, neither does anyone else – it’s just swept under the rug.
Before you ask “is this Subo impugning the integrity of Zuffa” – YES! This is one of those things that I wouldn’t trust Mother Teresa’s MMA Extravaganza with – the temptation to fudge is just too great.
I want the sanctioning bodies doing it all, not promoters deciding which tests to publicize and which ones to bury. (Dana is going to be soooooo mad I said all of this)
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Right now they have none of these things. Even a crappy, borderline fraudulent version is better than nothing.
by VirtualBalboa on Sep 19, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
So you’re saying the current regime beats nothing?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
This over absolute nothing? Yes, in so much as we’ve caught the occasional fighter who’s completely screwed up and it provides at least some tiny iota of a disincentive. Otherwise we’d have dudes shooting up before they walk in the cage.
by VirtualBalboa on Sep 19, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
And a guy like Karo shows that painkiller use during fights are effectively negated by the testing, as are things like cocaine and PCP.
It’s not good enough. I genuinely believe that. But it’s something.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course it isn’t good enough. Not remotely. But no one is asking for anything more honestly. Most people take your tact that the UFC shouldn’t involve themselves.
by VirtualBalboa on Sep 19, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel the UFC doing that kind of testing is like the UFC creating a union out of thin air. I wouldn’t buy it, because of the powerful conflict of interest.
Seriously, I’m going to research the feasibility of outsourcing it or piling more onto what already exists, but my Broncos are kicking ass right now.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Again: the UFC doesn’t have to do the testing themselves. They can ensure that they make the testing as transparent as they want. I would suggest that you do precisely that if you are as interested in reducing use of PEDs as you claim.
by VirtualBalboa on Sep 19, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I know there's a Dana-fied version of this somewhere
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah probably
but was going for a quick laugh and was too lazy to look beyond the first google image result
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
The UFC is, in effect, a sanctioning body, BTW. Just an FYI.
by VirtualBalboa on Sep 19, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Um, really?
They’re the ones that authorize the fights to take place, eh?
Please stop trying to compare MMA to boxing, one sport is irrevocably fucked by co-promotion and the other is heavily discussed on this website.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
They’re not any different in terms of how they sanction title fights to the WBC or WBA. I suppose at least those guys bother with rankings.
by VirtualBalboa on Sep 19, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, unless you include profitability and sanity as "terms"
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
You know as well as I do that they aren’t different. The UFC could start testing tomorrow through a third party and choose not to. It seems that you are okay with the status quo for no other discernible reason than that you don’t want to be confronted with the possibility that as much as half of the current roster is on the gas. That’s your call.
by VirtualBalboa on Sep 19, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I want the testing regardless of the consequences/positive ratio
BUT I don’t want the promotion to be withing 50 feet of them. I just like the idea of government regulation in that field better (yes, I’m a liberal).
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
And yet you know as well as I do that the athletic commissions are not going to do that. The UFC could take the lead and separate themselves in such a manner as to make the testing independent. You don’t want that, ostensibly because you don’t care about the fighters under the guise of fairness. It is comical.
by VirtualBalboa on Sep 19, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Put a gun to my head, I’d rather have the promotion doing the tests than the tests not getting done. I want the tests to get done. I’m just looking for a better way.
If I didn’t care about the fighters, I’d advocate letting them take whatever they wanted. I don’t.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Outsourcing testing to the USADA could start almost immediately. Why not write up an article demanding it?
by VirtualBalboa on Sep 19, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to look into it now
I mean it when I say I care about the health of mixed martial artists, and they need to be protected from their own insane commitment to being the best. If you want to send me an e-mail with some resources, I’d appreciate it – little busy these days.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
So do you trust the NFL to test it's own players?
The UFC could just have a 3rd party do the whole thing with their hands off it.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
What about random Olympic style test for those that have tested positive in the past and they pay for it? It would be a start….and I think it would help deter others.
Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before. -Mae West
random olympic style tests for everyone
or no tests at all
this middle ground crap leaves too much room for some to cheat and not get caught
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Sep 19, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
The NSAC stopped doing out of competition tests. I thought that was stupid
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
very stupid
and there’s only one logical explination for why they would stop out of comp tests
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Sep 19, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Completely agree
Everyone should be subject to Olympic style test, but starting with ones that have been popped is a start.
Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before. -Mae West
According to Meltzer, UFC already tests their own a month out from fights to determine if anyone is suffering from “undisclosed injuries” that should be addressed before a formal pre-fight test is conducted.
If this is true
Then why does anyone ever test positive ever?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
When was the last time a UFC main eventer tested positive?
Leben?
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
So what, they skipped the pre-fight one for Sonnen? Or Sonnen started juicing afterward to fool the promotion but not the AC? Or does the UFC not pre-test everyone like smoogy said? It’s one, two or three.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Or four: the CSACs test is better and picked sth up the UFC didn’t (or if you wanna go full conspiracy: the UFC picked it up but thought the CSAC couldn’t ;))
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
Fail Sonnen
"I drop knowledge so heavy it leaves the world unbalanced, Exterminate the spiritual force of all that challenge, I'm the lyrical apocalypse that crumbles the granite, Replacing you as the dominant species on the planet" - Immortal Technique
i am pro steroids
these guys kill themselves and most of the time the steroids are used to speed recovery time
i have no problem with it
my opinion doesn’t change the fact that it’s against the rules
and the fact that it’s against the rules doesn’t change the fact that the testing system is flawed
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Sep 19, 2010 4:23 PM EDT reply actions
in a sport where the object is to do physical damage to the other person
I can’t see how you can be pro-steroids. recovery time or not, it helps you workout more, get stronger, and inflict even more damage to the other opponent. its a safety issue.
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
it's a sport where you beat the shit out of each other
the sport itself is a safety issue
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Sep 19, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
i guess i knew this was coming
but you make it more dangerous with steroids. You suffer more brain injury. Not that brain injury doesn’t occur with a knockout, but you increase the risk for brain injury the harder you get hit
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
well that's a slippery slope
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Sep 19, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
what's a slippery slope?
It makes the sport more dangerous, don’t allow it.
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
the slippery slope that i speak of is
alot of things about the sport could be eliminated in order to make it less dangerous
i’m not here to argue my point and i know it’s not a popular view among mma fans
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Sep 19, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
but this is already something that's not supposed to happen?
I’m not talking about removing actions, I’m talking about enforcing the rules.
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
and this is where i must agree with you
like i said my opinion doesn’t change the fact that it’s against the rules
regardless of whether i agree with the rules or not they should be followed
they’re not
but they should be
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Sep 19, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
in my opinion
there’s a major difference between using steroids to augment your body and add unnatural mass
and using steroids to speed up recovery from injuries acquired during training
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Sep 19, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
definitely agree here
but its not like they choose “ok, this will just work for recovery, i won’t get strength gains for this”\
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
well it’s all about doses so they kind of do
you take steroids in one dose and it is medicinal gold
you increase that dose to unhealthy levels and it begins to augment the persons body and add bulk
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Sep 19, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
but allowing you to heal quicker
already allows you to train harder and increase strength. Not necessarily bulk, but strength, cardio, etc.
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
well i don't do steroids so i'm clueless about doses
and you bring up a good point about how to enforce doses
i’d say the best way would be to have a doctor administer the doses if needed
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Sep 19, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah exactly
steroids are illegal like xanex is illegal
they are only illegal unless for medical reasons
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Sep 19, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Wrong, your dr. doesnt prescribe winny, your doc can prescribe vanax
Anabolic steroids and Medical steroids have similar components but are vastly different substances
you get a positive drug test regardless if its medically prescribed or not
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
What does that have to do with your argument that a doctor should administer anabolic steroids to mma fighters,…..lol…i cant say that with a straight face
that's the opposite of my argument
i think you mean willis
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
that wasn't exactly my argument
you asked a question
i admitted you brought up a valid point then offered a possible solution in the name of discussion
actually i had no argument i simply stated my opinion then stated that my opinion doesn’t change the rules and that the rules should be followed
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Sep 19, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
No, no they are not. Anabolic steroids have indications in medicine – atrophy, malaria, etc., – which is precisely why they are still commonly produced. “Medical steroids” (whatever that means) are anabolic steroids.
by Disco-Platypus on Sep 19, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
oh snap
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Sep 19, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Dr. Disco-Platypus, I presume?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Wrong.
an “anabolic” or “androgenic” steroid is a type of steroid, which refers to a class of drugs with a similar structure of Vitamin D
cholestrol
estrogen
cortisone
There are many steroids that are NOT anabolic, Doctor.
He Said “medical steroids” are anabolic steroids, which is not true.
Anabolic steroids are a type of steroid, but the terms are NOT synonymous.
I was replying to the specific context in which you used the term. You were delineating “medical anabolic and androgenic steroids” from (apparently) “illegal androgenic and anabolic steroids,” and I was demonstrating that they are one in the same.
by Disco-Platypus on Sep 19, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
No, “anabolic” or “androgenic” (not or, by the way: it is anabolic and androgenic steroids) have no relation to Vitamin D. In fact, a steroid is a specific type of sterol, given that every steroid possesses choleSTEROL as its backbone. Cholesterol is therefore not a steroid, but what steroids are synthesized from.
by Disco-Platypus on Sep 19, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Bioactive vitamin D or calcitriol is a steroid hormone that has long been known for its important role in regulating body levels of calcium and phosphorus, and in mineralization of bone
and im an economics major
You stated that AAS are a class of steroid which share a structural similarity with Vitamin D. You could not be anymore wrong.
“Steroid” is simply a piece of nomenclature which describes a compounds actions on cellular metabolism. You are conflating a wide range of terms and choosing them willy-nilly to suit your argument.
by Disco-Platypus on Sep 19, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
No, they are defined STRUCTURALLY.
“a general class of chemical substances that are structurally related to one another and share the same chemical skeleton”
“Any of a class of natural or synthetic organic compounds with a molecular core, or nucleus, of 17 carbon atoms in a characteristic three-dimensional arrangement of four rings”
THUS, AAS and Vitiamin D both have some structural components in common!
I was being snarky.
The roids MMA fighters are using are not the LEGAL/MEDICINAL ONES
unless MDs are starting to distribute deca and winny without my knowledge
you’ll still fail a drug test for ped’s regardless of whether you’re using medicinal or street steroids
The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving. It saves on introductions and goodbyes. The ride does not require explanation - just occupance.
by Johnathan Willis on Sep 19, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, that is not true either. The vast majority of athletes are legally prescribed AAS rather than procuring it illegally.
by Disco-Platypus on Sep 19, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Source?
Not really challenging you, since I don’t know, but this is the first I’ve ever heard this.
by Pantherhare on Sep 20, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
No one takes single doses of steroids
At least not the anabolic ones that they’re testing for. Cortisone is a steroid and you could take a single shot to bring down swelling, but that’s not what everyone’s talking about.
by Pantherhare on Sep 20, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
What a surprise!
No, not that Chael Sonnen (allegedly) tested positive for performance enhancing substances, but that Jonathan Snowden immediately latched on to and exaggerated an emergent meme to construct a falsely compelling narrative – or in other words, “Snowden being Snowden.” This being said, I think it would be useful to provide a touch of context and a dash of substance to this dish to paint a more accurate, but possibly less “news-worthy,” narrative.
In the first place, there is absolutely no information regarding Chael Sonnen’s alleged PED use beyond a painfully vague and pithy comment by Dodd: without some definitive information in terms of which compounds were used and in what levels they were detected in the urinalysis/blood sample, I find it presumptuous at best that we ought to prescribing where and how Chael Sonnen be “reintegrated” into UFC cards – you know, given that no punitive measures have been taken against him at this point.
Second, this is the CSAC we are speaking about: certainly not an athletic commission which evokes images of competence and reliability, especially when one considers their checkered past with regard to PED testing. In fact, a subject of Snowden’s mini-narrative that UFC turns a blind eye to drug use, Sean Sherk, was falsely accused of using an androgenic-anabolic steroid known as Nandrolone when he was using an over-the-counter supplement commonly known as, “ATD” (chemical structure: 3,17-dioxo-etiochol-1,4,6-triene).
Now, ATD is well known to share a secondary metabolite with both Nandrolone and another steroid known as Boldenone – given that it possesses a steroidal backbone as an aromatase inhibitor – and Sean Sherk demonstrated this through both literature and independent labs confirming his innocence, but the CSAC still failed to admit its abject failure at pursuing the necessary measures to confirm and/or exonerate Sherk of his use. And given that Antonio Silva more recently found himself in precisely the same circumstance, I am disinclined to believe that the CSAC has shored up their testing procedures which are rudimentary at best. Of course, this is to say nothing of their general incompetence (read: handling of Diaz, etc.)
Third, and finally, the entire “Dana White turns a blind eye to PEDs based on Sean Sherk” sub-narrative is dubious at best, and intentionally misleading at worst. Sean Sherk was given that opportunity precisely and only because he demonstrated, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that his positive result for Nandrolone was the result of ATD and not using the banned substance itself; in that regard, the UFC acted appropriately where the CSAC failed to. In other instances, such as Tim Sylvia’s positive result for Stanzonol, the UFC is purported to have acted swiftly and his “willing” remittance of the title is said to have been the result of pressure from the organization.
by Disco-Platypus on Sep 19, 2010 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
sherk should know what he's putting in his body.
that is all.
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that each and every athlete has an undeniable personal responsibility to indemnify themselves against prosecution through education; however, that fact does nothing to detract from the CSAC’s abject failure in this instance and others.
by Disco-Platypus on Sep 19, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Where and when did Sean Sherk prove "beyond any shadow of a doubt"
that his positive test result was due to ATD?
He didn't.
But he did give plenty of evidence that his testing positive could very well have been simply wrong, unintentional, or at worst it was due to the CSAC committing some very serious flaws in it’s testing. We will never know one way or the other if Sherk really tested hot or why he did, but we have plenty of reasons to doubt it’s veracity at this point.
After Sherk’s case and the many other high profile cases which questioned the CSAC and their testing procedures is it really any surprise that many of us question these tests?
by Empty Thoughts on Sep 20, 2010 5:38 AM EDT up reply actions
"dubious at best, and intentionally misleading at worst"
You’ve read Snowden before, right?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 4:41 PM EDT reply actions
Yes...
…unfortunately I have.
Had I written an article which is intended to be intentionally inflammatory – which, by the way, I would most likely not to do, given that I am not in dire need of attention – I would have done more research on the issue to at least impart a smidgen of reliability to it.
by Disco-Platypus on Sep 19, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
So, when are you planning to divulge your financial interest in pumping up supplements and defending steroid abusers?
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow.
When will you divulge your financial interest in pumping up UFC’s competition by way of discrediting UFC/Zuffa whenever or wherever you can?
Although honestly I don’t believe that, you just come off like a guy who’s griping that the “good ol’ days” of 8 man tournaments in Japan are gone so you lash out at anything current.
by Jason H. on Sep 19, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
That’s stupid and insulting and I think you’re not really worth having a discourse with.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
ohhh shit we've got a discourse over here!
DISCOURSE! DISCOURSE! DISCOURSE!!!
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
You don't seem to like discourse
with the multitudes of people who prove you wrong on a regular basis.
Your opinion about who belongs in a lightweight title match in 2006 is not “proving” anyone wrong. Time for you to provide something of value to the community to earn your trolling papers….
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
So
Your opinion is valuable article material, the commenter’s who disagree with you’s opinions are trolls
Of course not. The manner, approach, and frequency of your comments shows what you are. I didn’t even need to mention it. Others have already figured it out.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
My critical thinking teacher told me this was called an “appeal to the people”
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt you went to college, let alone had a “critical thinking” teacher.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I am currently enrolled in college. I wrote my last post from my economics class.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on, Snowden
I agree with Subo approximately 0% of the time, but that is childish and insulting.
“DERP I DOUBT YOU EVER WENT TO COLLEGE, YOU DUMBASS HERP”
BOOSH
I appreciate that.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
You shouldn’t throw the professor under the bus then – as that was clearly not an “appeal to the people.”
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
“I don’t need to argue against you because everyone knows you’re wrong?” What would you call that?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Technically he's right
He’s not saying that Jason is a troll because everyone thinks he is. He’s saying Jason is a troll because of what he posts and that others can see that as well. Minor distinction, but key in that it makes it non argumentum ad populum.
He himself is identifying Jason as the troll and not "the people.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
And his evidence is that “others see it” so he doesn’t need to bother. That is supporting his claim by appealing to the people.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
No. I don't think you're clear on what "appealing to the people" means
It doesn’t mean actually appealing to the people. Simply acknowledging that others see it is not an indication that it is argumentum ad populum. If he said “Jason is a troll. Most of the people on here say so, it’s obvious”. That is “appealing to the people”. Snowden came to his own conclusion based on the reasons he stated.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I had a critical thinking teacher in 9th grade. It was in the morning and at least twice a week she let us watch Maury
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 19, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Sigh
Gotta love the fact that a guy who’s 10+ years older than me and apparently a professional writer is the biggest troll on the message board of a website he writes for.
I don’t know why you’re so completely adverse to having an intelligent discussion, but every reply you have is some snarky condescending crap or threatening to ban people.
I’m sorry I don’t think that MMA was only good 10 years ago, Snowden. I’m sorry you can’t seem to defend your increasingly ludicrous positions without resulting to being rude and insulting to the people on the site. Plenty of people have different opinions than you, that doesn’t make them trolls.
Leland Rolling did a whole bunch of pieces about the Sherk appeal that represent the writings of a semisane individual who’s goal isnt to sell bodybuilding supplements. And you know what? They agree with the sentiments written here by Snowden. And that of virtually all fans.
All you’ve been able to put in the discourse is “Sherk got his sentence reduced to 6 months, which means he was proven right” and “Snowden is making money by promoting competition”. The latter is completely nonsensical. The former is totally untrue.
by VirtualBalboa on Sep 20, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
The idea I profit from the UFC's competition...
It’s a ludicrous position. Like most people attached to this industry, my success is a direct result of Zuffa’s ability to sell this sport to the world. The idea that I “profit” from them doing poorly is ridiculously wrong. Astoundingly so, to the point it’s hard to believe that someone would make that claim.
The same for some tired claim that I hate modern MMA. Crazy talk. I love what Zuffa has done with the sport, it’s what inspired me to write about it. The idea that I would spend my time watching and writing about something I think isn’t “good” is bizarre. Do you believe these things? Really?
As for Sherk, you can toss out positions like “I was there and everyone thought Sherk was cleared” but we were there too. That wasn’t a consensus opinion by any means and I’ve never talked to a fighter or industry figure about steroids who didn’t believe Sherk was using.
By the way, it’s funny that the commenters here who have the biggest problem with me are almost across the board the people who are negative and confrontational with Nate and others as well. Guess what? I’m not taking a step back or letting you bully me. Other writers on this site have sworn off talking with people in the comments. You haven’t beaten me down enough yet.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 20, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, given that I provided some context and evidence to my opinion – those sticky little things you have issue with – I am hesitant to agree with your assessment. Though, given that you have made a profession out of being a “troll,” I ought to heed your advice should I choose that as my vocation as well.
The reality is that with every dismissive and knee-jerk response, you expose yourself more as a deliberately inflammatory writer who carries more sizzle than steak.
by Disco-Platypus on Sep 19, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
You should include a link for readers to buy your supplements.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Says the guy with an ever-evolving link to his book in his signature?
Who’s selling what here?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m selling a book. He’s selling drugs. I’m open about it.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true
It just seems that attacking the arguer (hey, another portion of that critical thinking class I’ve never been to) works when you do it, but when someone implies that you might profit from a fractured MMA landscape, that’s beyond the pale.
Seems unfair.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, damn it, stepping in again
Snowden is a) open about his book and b) the book is his opinion/view of history of MMA, so his posts on here (which are his views/opinions on MMA) are reflective of that.
The other guy is selling supplements and a) isn’t open about it and b) his opinions are shaped by that fact. The product he’s selling is not his opinion or advice, it’s the product.
If Snowden wrote a book with Scott Coker and was always pumping up Strikeforce, it would be analogous.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
So if you guys supoosedly know who he is and what his bias is, why make nebulous accusations instead of spilling the beans…you know like journalists would? This is like…well…like this: http://www.mmabay.co.uk/2010/09/19/mma-scandal-%E2%80%93-mixed-martial-arts-fight-fixed-as-big-name-wins-easily-to-restart-his-career/
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
Fuck MMABay.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know who he is, Snowden does
I’m guessing he’s a supplement pusher.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Because he’s making comments on a blog. Mention his name and company and you’re doing his work for him.
by VirtualBalboa on Sep 19, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, your penchant for ad hominems as opposed to cogent reasoning betrays you, my friend.
Explain how extolling the dangers of ATD in regard to causing a false positive for PEDs would be beneficial?
by Disco-Platypus on Sep 19, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Since you won’t disclose your obvious bias in this discussion, I think I’m done with you. Your comments, all in this post, will surely be missed.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
so wait
you get to say “he’s got a financial interest in supplements and steroid users” and when he replies in kind, he’s the stupid one not worth talking to?
gimme a break.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Sep 19, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Your interest in cogent reasoning seems to be less intense than your interest in history and biology. How would openly criticizing an over-the-counter compound for its implications in PED positive testing be “pumping up the supplement industry?” Your arguments are as terrible as your prose.
by Disco-Platypus on Sep 19, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I am Batman. Given that my identity is divulged in my profile picture, I will give you a “C.”
by Disco-Platypus on Sep 19, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
for the last time, no you are not.
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Perfect.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh fuck are we gonna get another sub0 diatribe about Snowden?
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 4:43 PM EDT reply actions
Probably not on this alone
But it definitely could be included in a compilation of some sort.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
“Diatribe?” My post was an examination of where and how Snowden (intentionally) misrepresented some salient points of Chael Sonnen’s (alleged) drug use. In no way is that a bitter and personal attack.
by Disco-Platypus on Sep 19, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
No he was talking about me
I’ve written about Snowden before (I am in fact in dire need of attention)
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you Sub0?
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
great white buffalo
great white buffalo
by Body Triangle on Sep 19, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
If that was your purpose it was a failure.
If your purpose was to pretend that Sherk was vindicated it was still a failure. But at least you put in a little effort.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
So rather than actually replying to an intelligent point
You just reply “fail” and move along?
I honestly wasn’t aboard this “Snowden wtf” brigade when you started here, but honestly the way you just write snarky little quips to anyone who dares disagree with you is the worst.
I didn’t say anything about the specifics of Sonnen’s case because none are known. So if the point was to show “where and how Snowden (intentionally) misrepresented some salient points of Chael Sonnen’s (alleged) drug use” it was a failure. It was a failure by default.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
sa·li·ent
/ˈseɪliənt, ˈseɪlyənt/ [sey-lee-uhnt, seyl-yuhnt] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
prominent or conspicuous: salient traits.
Given that you were indeed discussing the punitive measures that ought to be taken in Sonnen’s instance, and were “not” taken in Sherk’s instance, I would think Sherk’s case would be a prominent feature, no? You are striking out.
by Disco-Platypus on Sep 19, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
If your purpose was to demonstrate that you care little for either history of biology, you were a resolute success. Though, we can definitely have it out from the standpoint of chemistry as to ATD’s shared metabolites with nandrolone and boldenone. Quick: why are the half-lives of ATD and boldenone/nandrolone respectively accurate indicators of whether or not an athlete was using the former or the latter? No?
Well, let me tell you young man: both nandrolone and boldenone have extensive half-lives, meaning that a subsequent “B test” for an “A sample” which tested positive for either boldenone and/or nandrolone should test positive as well, provided that it is administered within the timeframe that both compounds are active. Guess what? Sherk submitted a “B test” during said period and it came back negative – i.e., his first positive result could not have been the result of either compound.
Now, I realize discussing facts rather than baseless conjecture makes you uncomfortable, JS, but come with me on the magic ride of knowledge, won’t you?
by Disco-Platypus on Sep 19, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
This entire argument is cute and all, but from day one Sherk had the problem that he tested positive for an amount of nandralone far in excess of the amount any human being has ever produced. Was it possibly in the Xyience supplements he was given as part of his sponsorship? Maybe. Except that it wasn’t that steroid, and he didn’t test positive for it. Which of course you don’t mention in bringing up not actually discussing what it was he tested positive for and at what level.
Maybe you can write that enormous article though. I would enjoy seeing you expend enormous amounts of time on this.
by VirtualBalboa on Sep 19, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
If he does write an article I hope it’s an advertorial to justify the incredible amount of time he’s spent here today.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn't that a good thing?
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Sep 19, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
What, his time here trying to confuse people with pseudoscience and big words and misdirection about Sherk’s “B sample?” It sure wasn’t worth my time. There’s a lot of money in selling athletes drugs. I get it.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 19, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Being a Sonnen fan,
Being a Sonnen fan I won’t start booing him until the whole story comes out. if it’s true that he tested hot for something though, I’m all for him appropriate sanctions by the UFC as well as the AC.
Drop him back to the middle of the pack and make him fight his way back up. I don’t think he’d have any problem at all doing it one way or the other but it would be a year or more before he shows back up in title contention. I don’t look forward to possibly not seeing a rematch between him and Silva, but if that is what needs to be done to prove a point then it needs to be done.
More fighters do this than we know I’m sure but that doesn’t change the fact that offenders should be caught and punished imo. Hopefully though this could turn out to be a error of some sort and things will go from there. Time will tell as more comes out.
haven't read the other post yet
But is Nightwhistler yet to grant us his coveted opinion on the matter?
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
Read my mind
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
by Chris Barton on Sep 19, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
His heart is going to break in about six hours
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the Bloody Elbow writers and commenters
Are trying to destroy me by constantly mentioning Pro Wrestling in MMA conversations.
Also, at night I can hear Randy Savage in my teeth.
this is the base for any good 'ol brainwashing
repeat it enough times and it will sink in
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Chael, you crapped on my heart. I thought I saw one of the most amazing performances a person ever gave in the octagon. I was honored to be there in person. Now I feel like I watched a fraud. The sad part is, you could have done all of this without the PED’s.
I could be sitting here with just pee stains on my rug.
That's the thing though
If it’s true and and the positive was because of PEDs, then we DON’T know if he “could have done all of this without the PED’s” against Silva.
Yeah, I guess your right.
I could be sitting here with just pee stains on my rug.
by Earl Montclair on Sep 19, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana on Steroids (Fighter's Only)
"What else do I do? We’ve spent millions of dollars – literally, millions of dollars – to try to get this thing regulated so they can be tested by the government. Do you know how much it costs us to put on that fighter seminar [in Las Vegas] every year? Let me tell you, we’re bringing guys in from all over the world. We have guys from England, Germany, Croatia, Australia, Korea. We have 350 guys under contract and they’re coming from all over the world. It costs us a (expletive) ton, but we do it because it’s important," he said.
"When one of them fails a test, the government is going to fine them and suspend them and tell them they can’t make a living for a year. So should I come in after they’ve already lost the ability to make a living for a year and been fined all this money and, in the worst economic disaster in the history of the world, fine them another huge amount and take away their ability to make a living even longer?"
PEDS, they're bad for you
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Sep 19, 2010 5:55 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Purple Drank is a PED?
I could be sitting here with just pee stains on my rug.
by Earl Montclair on Sep 19, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Some would say so.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Worst Rapper Alive.
Fifty Tyson > Lil Wayne
I could be sitting here with just pee stains on my rug.
by Earl Montclair on Sep 19, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
He sounds like a six year old.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
He is the Boomhauer of rap.
I could be sitting here with just pee stains on my rug.
by Earl Montclair on Sep 19, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
He has moments
Be good or be good at it
Fucking right I’ve got my gun, semi-Cartermatic
Yeah, put a dick in their mouth, so I guess it’s fuck what they say
I’m high as a bitch: up, up and away
Man, I come down in a couple of days
OK, you want me up in the cage, then I’ll come out in beast mode
I got this world stuck in the safe, combination is the G-code
It’s Weezy motherfucker, blood gang and I’m in bleed mode
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
He's not a singer
Its not his voice that makes him the best.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Fuck guess I’ll have to scrap that whole cage fighting idea
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Time for Plan K
I could be sitting here with just pee stains on my rug.
by Earl Montclair on Sep 19, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think I can be a tattoo artist
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
As long as you can do “sick” tribals and area code tats I say you’ll make a satisfactory living.
I could be sitting here with just pee stains on my rug.
by Earl Montclair on Sep 19, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Got my guy working on a Tesla forearm piece
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Tesla?
I could be sitting here with just pee stains on my rug.
by Earl Montclair on Sep 19, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice but Nikola is more like it
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 19, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Purple Drank is a PED?
You would have to watch the episode to get it.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Sep 22, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Chaaaaaaaaael, Chaaaaaaaael
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Look above.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 19, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Great minds...
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Sep 22, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Sooooo...
The first guy to actually make Anderson Silva look human needed performance enhancers to do it!
ARGH!!!
so…Chael Sonnen used PED’s, broke Andersons ribs and STILL ended up unconscious with The Spiders balls on his face?! Anderson Silva is INHUMAN.
Are our bones not dust?
Is our Blood not Poison?
On my knees in the black light
Praying for Salvation, bitter Redemption
So throw your dice and cast your shadow
You may look away
But your children will not...
S.C Michaelson
You trying to earn the record for most comments in a 5 minute period, or are you just trying to break my scroll wheel?!
Satoshi Kon
R.I.P.
Steroids would not have affected him as a fighter
1. MMA has a big drug problem and most of the fighters in the UFC are most likely doing the same thing he is, so saying he is less of a fighter is ridiculous. It’s not even like he is some huge jacked up freak like some other guys.
2. Steroids cant make someone a better fighter, it is used for recovering so that you can heal injuries faster and train more, and the training part is mostly helpful for muscle recovery and the guy didn’t get any bigger. He rocked Silva and steroids cannot help you punch harder, He took him down and steroids cannot help you wrestle better.
I don’t condone any drugs and I don’t condone him using steroids, but it would have had little to no affect on his abillities as a fighter. And I dont want you angry insane people posting unlearned comments to listen to me, but I would like you to do some research for yourself on steroids and then see if you have different feelings afterwards. Not about him personally which I don’t really care for myself, but the fighter, which is pretty much the same with or without steroids. You can logically say, if he was fighting someone injured and you know for a fact they are not using steroids, “thats not fair because he is fresher and healthier”. But saying “He wouldn’t be as good a fighter without the drugs”, is uneducated and ridiculous.
If he is suspended, then thats fair. But dropping him in rankings is ridiculous. He was stupid, that doesn’t mean he’s less of a fighter.
I doubt if you ask any fighter anonymously if they had less respect for him they would say yes.
Go do your own research.
Wait, Performance ENHANCING drugs have no effect on his PERFORMANCE
That’s false fucking advertising.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I know its sarcasm
but no, they cannot affect a fighters performance in any significant way. Don’t believe me, just go do research.
OK brother
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
Follow me on Twitter
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 19, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
As a guy who used anabolics while grappling
When you’re cycling you have ten times the endurance and a 25% or more increase in strength. Not to mention the intensity(brought on by a huge adrenaline spike). I never got mad rolling, but I didn’t want to quit. It just makes you compete even harder.
People don’t realize the psychological effects of hormones. I was happy ass shit all day, but I had a serious intensity in everything I did, even my school work. I would wear myself out studying and training everyday, pass out at 10 pm and sleep like a baby. The next day, I’d wake up feeling better than I did the last day. Eventually, my confidence and strength level got really high. I maintained that level after the cycle, but didn’t improve like I was at that time.
As a natural athlete and competitor, it was like the missing piece. I always had energy, but I had ten times more. I always had strength, but now everyday it was growing noticeably. I was recovering overnight, every night. I even had way more motivation, I was pretty much obsessed with training, nutrition and competition.
Anyone who says adrenaline and testosterone can’t greatly increased your odds of winning a fight, has never fought or even watched the Jersey Shore.
Can anabolics(or possibly catabolics) make a substantial difference in the outcome of a fight between two highly trained martial artists? Of course.
Will it always be the deciding factor? Apparently not, thankfully.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 19, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing.
by Horselover Fat on Sep 20, 2010 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bloody Elbow
Related FanShots on Bloody Elbow
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
