UFC Description of MMA to China Journalist Very Curious
by Luke Thomas on Sep 17, 2010 4:00 PM EDT
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A British journalist by the name of Peter Foster spoke with Marc Fischer, the man (formerly with the NBA) spearheading the UFC's entrance into China. Foster is wondering if "cagefighting" is something that can really be popular in China. Here's what Fischer told Foster:
As Mr Fischer told me when I met him today, promoting Cagefighting to the masses at least has the virtue of not being too complicated to explain – no tricky rules like in rugby or cricket.
"It’s very exciting and straightforward, it doesn’t take long to explain," he says with a wry smile, "it’s just two guys going at it in a ring."
I still can’t decide quite what China, the spiritual home of martial arts, will make of cage-fighting. My gut instinct says that many people will love it – just as they do in the US where fights attract up to 10m viewers and in the UK where they sell out big venues like the 02 Arena – but that the government will correspondingly hate the idea.
The powers-that-be here are currently waging a Politburo-level campaign against vulgarity in society, tackling everything from salacious gossip in newspaper to dating shows that concentrate overly on the material aspects of matchmaking.
Quite how cage-fighting, a sport that former US presidential candidate John McCain described as "human cockfighting" will fit into the harmonious, high-brow civilized Chinese society that President Hu Jintao envisages for the new China, I’m not quite sure.
Mr Fischer says that he and his organization are "cognisant of these issues", hinting that the marketing for China will be a more subdued and a bit less blood-spattered than in the rest of the world, but then blood is part of the attraction, right?
UFC has already started grooming the first Chinese cage-fighting stars – a fighter called Tiequan "The Mongolian Wolf" Zhang is scheduled to make his debut in the US at the end of the month.
Even so, I suspect that an Asian version of cage-fighting will have to be carefully managed. I’m not sure how the Chinese public would react to one of their own getting beaten to a pulp a square-jawed American beefcake or – even worse – a Japanese one.
Emphasis mine.
Leaving aside the issue of issue of how popular MMA and the UFC can be in China, I'm more intrigued by Fischer's description of MMA.
Clearly part of what he's suggesting is true. I personally think the UFC overstates the mobility of their own product across cultures, but there is something to the idea that fighting - in one form or another - has both roots in China and is generally an act where a winner and loser can be discerned.
However, that's looking at from a perspective so macro that the view loses sight of important details. The Chinese populace might warm up to the UFC product or they may not. At this juncture we cannot know, but if the UFC is presuming that their product is transportable because it's easily understood, that seems troublesome.
MMA is not easily understood. Understanding it means more than identifying a winner or pointing out a loser. Even that can often be very difficult and the process of accurately determining as much is still incomplete even in the most savvy circles. Beyond that, though, there is the issue of understanding the ability to conduct the sport safely. There is also the tricky cultural question of whether a style of fighting that frankly is bereft of Chinese influence is palatable. Dana White hypes the Bruce Lee connection, but not only is Lee's connection to MMA tenuous, Lee was as much American as Chinese. The idea of incorporating disparate elements from a variety of disciplines, cultures and people to produce something new - for better or worse - is the expression of an American ideal. That was not something his Chinese peers encouraged.
It's by no means a given that because the Chinese have appreciation for Wu Shu and Kung Fu that they therefore will like triangle chokes and kata-gatame. They are similar, sure, but only from a macro perspective. One wonders if closer examination reveals key fault lines that could make market penetration a much greater ordeal.
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Luke, nothing is emphasised in the quote. I assume its the part about “two guys going at it in a ring”.
by sadface on Sep 17, 2010 4:09 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Isn't italicism also emphasis?
Mo Johnston finally fired. Let the house cleaning and road to success begin.
Oh, sorry then. I’m on my mobile and didn’t notice it. I was looking for something in bold. ;)
by sadface on Sep 17, 2010 4:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I always thought of italics as weaker than normal text.
Not even strong enough to stand up straight.
by truck on Sep 17, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Still, there should be a recognizable pattern as to how something is emphasized on BE and from my experience, bold print is the norm. So stick to one thing or the other. I also thought it was an oversight.
To save me some time on 25% of all threads, here's the universal answer to the Fedor-debate: Fedor is the most accomplished MMA fighter ever. That is a fact. If he still is the best fighter at this point in time is up for debate.
Like everything in China it depends on if you get government backing
If the chinese government doesn’t like it, it’s dead before it could even swim. That’s the first major hurtle and ultimately more important than gaining a chinese fan base at the initial phases.
Even if the UFC can get past that I still don’t see how they’ll make money. PPV at the current US prices will never fly in China add to the fact that the PPV model is also foreign to them.
Still think this will be a costly mistake for ZUFFA.
I don't think they would do PPV in China
they don’t even do it in the UK
Proud member of the newly established Frankie Edgar bandwagon
Cain will beat Brock, I am accepting sig bets.
Squaresphere
UFC does have PPV in UK. I watch the UFC from ESPN UK every PPV. I pay 4 dollars for a 24 hour subscription and there it is. As far as China is concerned. Zuffa wouldn’t have partnered with Flash Entertainment and hired Marc Fischer if they weren’t confident in UFC’s ability to gain acceptance in Mainland China.
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
i am gonna do my best not to call you names!!
But 4 dollars doesn’t count as buying a ppv in my book! Lol that’s awesome!
That’s what I do with strikeforce on showtime.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Sep 17, 2010 5:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
whoa 4 dollars?
Is that an internet stream or the actual PPV? That’s a huge price cut. Now that price is something the Chinese market may be able to absorb.
by squaresphere on Sep 18, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
"Lee was as much American as Chinese"
True, but his movies are what started an emergence Chinese nationalism. Although many Americans look up to Lee, he was a national hero in China.
other than that I agree, I think MMA is not simple at all. I have always wondered how the UFC would go about trying to sell the UFC in China, and I don’t think we will get a clear picture of where it is going until they hold a show there.
Proud member of the newly established Frankie Edgar bandwagon
Cain will beat Brock, I am accepting sig bets.
Funniest anecdote on Lee and nationalism I can remember
Was John Derbyshire (writing for the American conservative National Review) mentioning that he played an unnamed mook who gets kicked (in the face?) by Lee in that Return/Way of the Dragon movie (with Chuck Norris as the “final boss”… who, spoiler, dies by guillotine choke neck break), and that in the script the scene was called “Lee hits the Westerners,” Li da xi ren, seriously. :P
The product will sell
but right now the UFC could skip the political uncertainty by enlisting the help of some of the Jackie Chan or Jet Li as spokesmen or fans. Those guy’s influence could sway government poo pooing of the sport.
by Daveyboy on Sep 17, 2010 4:18 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
The Chinese have appreciation for Wu Shu and Kung Fu that they therefore will like triangle chokes and kata-gatame. They are similar, sure, but only from a macro perspective.
I agree that Wu Shu and Kung Fu can be compared as Macro factors in the spectrum of Martial Arts. However, I would disagree that further examination of Micro factors would reveal any obstacle, when in fact, I believe your Macro comparison will be the largest hurdle for UFC/MMA to be popular in China.
China has repeatedly shown in History it’s turtle-like-speed to accept outside influences of the world, in order to tightly preserve their own heritage and more importantly, remain control of their cultural trajectory.
The main difficulty I foresee in penetrating the Chinese MMA market will be the reluctance to accept a Sports Combat environment that will demand from it’s athlete a multi-disciplined approach.
Much like classical Ju Jitsu, Kung Fu, and even Traditional Karate-style practitioners, many of these martial artist will not participate in modern Sports-Combat because their traditional styles not only represent centuries of lineal-heritage (which is exceptionally protected in Classical schools), but also represents Martial Arts Combat, which in essence is nowhere near sports. Hence, the reason these systems still include a variety of weapons in their curriculum, and other disciplines that are outside today’s modern norm of life.
The Chinese may or may not be as stringent to their Japanese counterparts in terms of Ancestral Lineage, however, their rituals of homage in their religion, culture, and even Martial Arts run very deep, as do the Japanese.
by Adrian Lee on Sep 17, 2010 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
i think the reason TMA schools dont compete is they like to hide behind their belts.
Where as in Muay Thai( talking about a title belt), and Bjj the belts only cover 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to the fighter.
THE “my style is too deadly” is a cop out.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Sep 17, 2010 6:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well if that's your opinion.
About “my style is too deadly”, perhaps it would be more appropriate to say “My style is to the death”.
Muay Thai was a traditionnal martial arts until it was reformed with sporting rules. Today it has proven to be one of the most successful sports combat fighting styles, when comparing to other sports combat systems. Yet if the stakes are to the death, or even more, with a weapon, I would choose to learn Karate or Kung Fu.
If your opponent has a knife, why would I even consider blocking (low or high guard) with my arms, when the best option is to side step or parry the upcoming strike. And yet, if it was strictly hand-to-hand combat, the better option may be to high block and counter punch right back.
Again, it’s all about intent and application of your circumstances. Further, much of TMA schools are not interested in adjusting their styles of fighting for the sake of modernity. As I mentioned previously, ancestral lineage is very important in both Chinese and Japanese culture.
bjj addresses weapon attacks.
We have a defense for knife attacks and gun attacks. Its part of the Gracie basics. Hell we even have a defense from a steel chair. Helio always thought of real fighting.
“Yet if the stakes are to the death, or even more, with a weapon, I would choose to learn Karate or Kung Fu”. Man too bad the Gracies didn’t fight any and all comers& styles for years to prove bjj is superior…… if only there were youtube videos of this….. then we would know kung fu vs. Bjj doesn’t go well for the kung fu guy.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Sep 18, 2010 1:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Thanks for the link, but you are deviating from the perspective that I suggested.
I’m not denying the effectiveness of BJJ and its curriculum of fighting techniques. Whether that include, but not limited to, hand to hand combat, grappling, weapons and defensive maneuvers, and conditional training.
But as I suggested, BJJ is limited in comparison to TMA when viewing the entire curriculum of both systems as a whole. For example, because BJJ is a sport and widely competed on a global scale, the evolution of the techniques taught today may seem very different from what Helio Gracie instructed. The adaptation factor of No-Gi competitions, wresting vs BJJ, MMA, and other head-on competitions has forced BJJ to evolve to in order to maintain it’s dominance under whatever rules, terms, and conditions set forward by the competion, respectively.
The lineage of BJJ itself stems from Judo, and Judo comes from Ju Jiutsu. Without digressing too much, Judo was possibly a combination of several Ju Jiutsu teachings and other martial arts. But what has been suggested about Judo is that many of the original techniques had to be removed from it’s curriculum in order to meet safety demands under Olympic competition. Therefore the evolution factor, similar to BJJ, displays the necessary changes due to circumstances. And yet, my main point was that many TMAs do not change it’s curriculum due to the aforementioned reasons from my first post.
You suggesed that BJJ has defense for several circumstances. I agree. But now consider, does BJJ teach the following skill-set examples:
- Horse Back Riding for Combat, Archery, and Weapons attack and Defense
- Archery
- Basic Weapons training, and advanced weapons
- Special Weapons training
- Hand to Hand Combat
- Grappling, locks, and submissions
- and much more (type Koryu Ju Juitsu in google for a wealth of information)
I’m not suggesting these are necessary skills for the modern Mixed Martial Artist, however, to blatantly accuse a Traditional Martial Artist of saying “My style is too deadly” as an excuse to avoid competing in MMA is unfair. When the possibility that a TMA main virtue is to avoid fighting if possible.
Even if they were to fight, what makes you think a Samurai would dismount from his horse to fight a BJJ practitioner in hand to hand combat, when in fact he could simply shoot him with an arrow from 25 yards.
Your insinuation is just as ridiculous as, if, a Traditional Martial Artist claimed that their skill sets in Archery, Equestrianism, Hand to Hand Combat, and other skills sets taught in traditional schools is versed enough to challenge in combat a modern day solider who carries a sniper rifle, and an M-16, and grenades, under the provisions that both combatants only use their weapons of training.
That’s like bringing a baseball bat to a gun fight.
bjj addresses weapon attacks.
We have a defense for knife attacks and gun attacks. Its part of the Gracie basics. Hell we even have a defense from a steel chair. Helio always thought of real fighting.
“Yet if the stakes are to the death, or even more, with a weapon, I would choose to learn Karate or Kung Fu”. Man too bad the Gracies didn’t fight any and all comers& styles for years to prove bjj is superior…… if only there were youtube videos of this….. then we would know kung fu vs. Bjj doesn’t go well for the kung fu guy.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Sep 18, 2010 1:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
oh wait !! they did do that!! and there is videos!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=VN6PvPCrStI
So I will have to respectfully disagree with that line of thinking.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Sep 18, 2010 1:32 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Traditional Jiu Jitsu is based on the premise of fighting an armed opponent
It’s designed for Samurai who fall off their horse or somehow get disarmed and need to take down their opponent and kill them. Honestly, the classes I took of pure Japanese style JJ were so purely situational that i had to quit so i could do some fun BJJ training. Every class was like “This guy comes at you with a knife, so you bend his arm and stab him in the throat and then break his neck.” Not my thing.
"The only freakshow's the one in my pants"
-James Toney
by chasethegoose on Sep 18, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I've never practiced in Japan for either Traditional or Koryu Ju Juitsu,
I can imagine how difficult it may seem if purely situational. If you thought that was bad, Aikido has its own issues. But much like any singular combat system, it is difficult to accept its practicality when solely used in a Mixed Martial Arts.
The product will sell
but right now the UFC could skip the political uncertainty by enlisting the help of someone like Jackie Chan or Jet Li as spokesmen or fans. Those guy’s influence could sway government poo pooing of the sport.
by Daveyboy on Sep 17, 2010 4:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Zuffa is focusing it's efforts to bring MMA into Asia thru China not Japan.
Does anyone else see a problem with this? I know that the Japanese, by Dana’s account, are hard to deal with. So, they go to China instead? From the fying pan into the fire IMO. Better to get your product on the shelf in the already established market first.
But perhaps it’s a bit difficult to go into a Japanese market that has a very different take on MMA than we do here in the North America and in Europe. The Dream/Sengoku/Pride product they’re accustomed to might not allow for the UFC to go in and carve out its own niche. I’m really unaware of how big a presence Art of War has, but I doubt it is signifcant. Thus, the UFC goes into China with a black slate and dictates how MMA will be presented going forward.
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 17, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
AOW 15 last Nov 09 was
I saw it live. Chinese MMA fighters were matched against muay thai or striking based fighters with little or no MMA experience so almost all the fights went to the ground and ended in GNP tko or sub.
yeaahhhh
that didnt happen.
Here’s the fight card. Point out which fights youre referring to and I’ll show you how youre wrong.
http://www.artofwarfc.cn/?q=node/655
I’m guessing you train MT or something striking-based.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Sep 19, 2010 6:55 AM EDT up reply actions
It appears to be odd, but it's the correct play.
The Chinese are always open for business. While the Japanese place cultural significance equally beside all aspects of their lives. Historically, it has always been difficult for most nations to sell any finished product to Japan, and Japanese consumers. Look at their Export and Import trade history, along with who they export to and import from.
As of recent, the only major success to cross over to Japan was anything related to the Korean wave. LOL
semi agree with this
China might be the wrong country to use a a spring board into greater asia, but I don’t necessarily agree that Japan would have been the better choice. As you metion Japan and White have history which makes it extremely difficult for the UFC to gain a foothold over there.
A better choice would have been S.Korea because of higher GDP than China, has a established, though minor, MMA establishment, and the UFC has several moderately successful korean fighters.
by squaresphere on Sep 17, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely agree.
I have always contended that South Korea would be the optimal epic center for Asian MMA. Not only does the UFC have “several moderately successful korean fighters”, but more importantly, South Korea has demonstrated cultural acceptance of many American products.
More importantly, political ties are more stable between Korea and the US, versus the US and China. However, having said that, there’s a reason why UFC sold a 10% share to a group that has very strong political ties, and clout, around the world.
@Square – You have to clarify the comment about the S. Korea having a higher GDP than China. South Korea isn’t even in the top 10.
Meant GDP per capita
which boils down to GDP/population. S.Korea is ranked 31 while China is 99
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita
by squaresphere on Sep 18, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't be so quick to jump on the China bandwagon
I went to a couple of UFC events with chinese friends and their reaction could best be described as bored. I was trying to explain what was going on, but they couldn’t be budged.
This was at UFCs 71 and 73.
Its hard to generalize from a sample of about 10 people, but they really didn’t take to it. They preferred basketball more than anything else.
Even though some people do TMA in China, I don’t think its a huge enough force to turn into something very big.
I know a number of Chinese people who like MMA.
They are Chinese Canadians though and Canadians love MMA, so I don’t know if that changes things drastically. That said, I know a number of white guys that despise MMA and anyone who wears a Tapout or Affliction shirts. It is really hard to make generalizations.
I must confess, there’s something about the tapout and affliction shirt cultures that are, who do I say, not really classy?
That sounds lame, just being honest. But I love MMA almost to a fault.
Careful marketing in China
is good for MMA as a sport. I don’t think that the UFC as it is currently presented would make the optimum impact that it could than if it were marketed more as a sport where different martial arts (and combinations of these) are put to the test against one another and is less emphasis on bloodlust.
The only reason the UFC is going to China…
Is the size of the chinese market. I know it sounds obvious, but think about it. If China was a small country, there would be no interest whatsoever in developing the UFC there, because there’s no pre-existing interest for MMA or even boxing (like, say, in the Philippines).
So the UFC is facing an uphill battle for sure…
I predict chinese MMA will not be very popular because chinese spectators will be expecting kung fu and martial arts action but instead get 15 minutes of gray maynard USA american wrestling instead
"The Mongolian Wolf"
Sounds like what I ate at Oriental Garden #6 the other night
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 17, 2010 4:45 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
was waiting for someone to call me out on lame joke
"I need a shot of tequila and a cigarette." -- Don Frye
by Anthony Pace on Sep 17, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Having experienced personally the cultural differences...
between China and the US, the only way I really see the UFC in china working for any long stretch of time is too literally create a ufc promotion with ONLY chinese fighters for the first few years. The chinese will have little to no interest in the existing stable of UFC fighters, and if they see their countrymen being handled by them, reactions will turn from apathetic to negative. Their may be a slight interest in the best of the best, but no prolonged and sustainable interest.
The UFC will need to build slowly and take the long view, incrementally growing their reach by using only local chinese fighters for the actual fights while introducing them to the rest of the UFC fighters through ads, promos, clips, etc. Spend a good two years with Chinese only, then start bringing in beatable journeymen who aren’t complete cans. The fights need to be legit, but winnable by the chinese fighters for the chinese audience to get behind the sport. Once a solid base has been built for 3/4 years, then start merging the fighters.
Test the waters first one or two fights of top chinese fighters versus gatekeepers from UFC. If one of the Chinese fighters loses, get substantial polling information and trending information to see how it has effected viewership. From there, the strategies dealing with various outcomes explodes and there is no way to speculatively make a plan right now.
Fischer's current strategy is the correct approach.
Find the Yao Ming equivalent for MMA. This will strengthen the UFC’s foothold by manipulating the nationalism angle. This Chinese superstar has to demonstrate not only some form of dominance against any competition (regardless of ethnicity), but also demonstrate the importance to have an overall skill set..
Whether this Chinese phenom has a background in Chinese Martial Arts, this individual will have to promote the importance of learning BJJ, Wresting, Muay Thai, Boxing, Judo, etc.
Unless, Wu Shu turns out to be an indefensible martial arts style, which I highly doubt based on the approach of a single-fight-style.
I really think the "putting all your eggs in one basket" approach
will spell disaster in this case. Putting all their dreams on the back of ONE Yao Ming of MMA is too risky. Between injuries, everyone’s ability to lose, and the pressure that would be on the guy, there are too many ways for it to backfire. I really think they needs many, as in DOZENS of chinese fighters only fighting each other for at least 2 years to build up true staying momentum in China.
Sorry, to clarify about the Yao Ming approach.
I meant the Yao Ming Approach, but having him/her rise from the DOZENS of Chinese fighters only situation, as you pointed out.
I don’t know about the two year build up, but I would not be surprised if UFC’s strategy was something along the lines of your suggestion.
I also like BidDNotDallas’ suggestion about non-Chinese fighters competing amongst themselves, and the orchestrated bout between the Aging and Fading Foreigner Vs the Dynamic, Up and Comer Chinese fighter. It wouldn’t be shocking if this was the model for all international TUF expansions, excluding English speaking nations for the most part.
I agree for the most part
There can be some non-Chinese fighters, but they can only fight other non-Chinese fighters for the most part.
A few regional rivalries could be exploited, but they need to be of the Jones vs. Maty variety where the foriegner, for all of his embellished accomplishments, has little real chance of winning.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
As for being well rounded... "The fox devises many strategies, the hedgehog only one, but he uses it very effectively." -Archilochus
by BigDNotDallas on Sep 18, 2010 11:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Sanda is the biggest combat sport in China, and I think “Sanda with grappling” would be a fairly easy sell (Sanda, in addition to the kickboxing element, already has throws and what not; it’s basically the same thing as Sanshou).
Selling a sport without having any Chinese stars may be a little more difficult. It would help if Zhang Tiequan became a bigger star. Another guy to keep an eye on is the guy who beat Akihiro Gono in Gono’s LW debut. I know Mongolian != Chinese, but I suspect it’d be much easier for a Chinese sports fan to identify with a Mongolian fighter than a Westerner or a Japanese fighter.
Recs on the San Da point
but Jadamba is Mongolian, not Mongolian-Chinese.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Sep 19, 2010 6:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t wanna sound condescending when I say this (especially since it’s true of me, as well), but what the hell do any of us on here understand about China or what it billion+ citizens find interesting or exciting? This is exactly why the UFC hired Fischer – he’s a guy who spent a decade helping a major American sport enter the Chinese market. Dana, for all his arrogance, seems to be aware that he can’t spearhead the effort. We’re sitting here armchair quarterbacking for a guy who passed on the opportunity to be the quarterback.
I also won’t be surprised if UFC tries to build itself in China much like the early years of the UFC with one-style practitioners in Chinese TMAs fighting each other. Build some interest from there and you can expect guys on the losing end to start cross-training in other TMAs or even incorporating other disciplines like BJJ and wrestling… just like happened here. Let it build for a few years and then look to bring some Chinese fighters into UFC/WEC and possibly bring some foreign fighters (likely from other Asian countries where national pride will build interest) to fight in China.
Maybe it’s just me, but I imagine Zuffa trying to build an authentic Chinese version of the UFC from scratch instead of exporting UFC cards like they’ve done so far in Europe, Canada, and Australia.
by mma_critic on Sep 17, 2010 5:47 PM EDT reply actions
The only thing simple in MMA is knowing who won after it’s been announced. Everything in between can be really confusing. There’s a reason why people complain about “dry-humping in spandex” etc. With my friends, as I explained to them what was happening, they started getting more into it. When there’s straight up stand-up matches, that’s a different story. Whoever connects is winning, but that’s not even half the story in MMA.
Fighting is kind of a science, science isn’t that easy.
MMA is very easy to understand. That’s why commissions, judges and referees have been getting everything right for 10 years.
by JimmersonzGlove on Sep 17, 2010 7:06 PM EDT reply actions
A lot more than they did the previous ten.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Sep 17, 2010 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
ummmm there werent refs and judges 20 years ago.
It was nhb.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Sep 18, 2010 1:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
that is when they got it right.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Sep 18, 2010 1:57 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
San Da (San Shou) is very popular
San da is the accepted national combat sport. If a strong connection and crossover can be made between MMA and San Da then the UFC may have a chance. But its very much like the Muy Thai culture in Thailand, very ingrained in the society, so it may be a hard sell.
MMA
will succeed in China
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Sep 17, 2010 10:06 PM EDT reply actions
The UFC has to succeed on Chinese TV first
And see if they have the right product to compete with this long running Chinese KNEE FIGHTING program i see on CCTV 5 (the national sports channel) ON PRIMETIME every week.
vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-agNvtfyhI
Yes, this vid was from 2007 but it’s still on today. They even have a women’s division.
I went to the Art of War 15 event last November and the crowd reaction was interesting. The crowd instinctively reacts excitedly to toe-to-toe battles, but gets confused and silent when it goes to the ground. And that’s a shame because the card had a lot of submission finishes.
And i don’t know how the AOW matchmaking works but it definitely put the MMA practioners over. They were matched against Muay Thai fighters or strikers with little or no MMA experience. It’s very strange.
But what i took from from it is that 1) a striking match is what it is and that will get people excited regardless of style or martial art school. 2) like a lot of new MMA fans, the CHinese fans have to get educated on ground fighting. 3) There ARE MMA-trained fighters here. And more gyms should come here. I don’t think it’s necessary for a Chinese fighter to be TMA-trained in order to get be a big star here.
And also, since i’m in Beijing i would love to be able to watch the UFC on TV, and a liver event down the road.
erm, I dont know which fights you keep referring to
but your assessment of AOW 15’s matchmaking is way off. Do some research, buddy.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Sep 19, 2010 6:39 AM EDT up reply actions
MMA IS Easily Understood...
In the context of this piece. It’s like saying the rules of baseball are easy to understand – that doesn’t mean that baseball is itself superficial and easy to really watch and see the intricacies. It just means it takes 5 minutes to explain the rules to a potential new fan and they can follow the action. The subtlety comes later and is part of the enjoyment of becoming a hardcore fan that watches every card and can see the openings that a submission expert, for instance, could take. THAT part takes time. Learning the rules? That’s easy. And that is a draw for this sport.
What is this myth of "fighting - in one form or another - has roots in China"
Basically every culture ever has some kind of martial art. Really, what martial arts that are relevant in MMA originated in China? JJ= Japan, BJJ= Brazil, Karate= Japan, Wrestling=Rome/modern USA, Boxing= Britain, it goes on and on.
Should this really read: “Every kid – at one point or another – has watched kung fu movies?” Cause thats how i got into fighting, but on the other hand a lot of people got into mma from pro wrestling.
"The only freakshow's the one in my pants"
-James Toney
I want everyone to read this comment ^^^^^^^^
To see a) what poor reading comprehension looks like and b) what bad opinions look like when reading comprehension fails them.
Thanks in advance.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Sep 18, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
“China, the spiritual home of martial arts”
What I was trying to criticize was the idea (not yours, i know) that China has some special place above other countries when it comes to originating martial arts. I realize from a marketing perspective there is merit to that idea, but I’m just saying it’s without any real logical base. I realize the last paragraph is kinda dumb, but i was drunk. What can you do.
"The only freakshow's the one in my pants"
-James Toney
by chasethegoose on Sep 19, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
You're underestimating the Chinese audience and generalizing Chinese Martial Arts
First off, the audience wouldn’t come to an MMA show expecting to see something similar to Kung Fu or Wushu; that’d be just stupid. But rather they’d come expecting to see something similar to San Da. And—this is a big advantage the UFC will have—they might even be treated to watching some of their favorite San Da fighters fight MMA.
Second, MMA is not at all totally bereft of Chinese influence in that there are plenty of techniques Chinese people will be able to identify, especially because San Da is, with the exception of the ground game, essentially an MMA fight. There’s plenty of throws, trapping kicks, and strikes for them to identify as Chinese.
Plus, you could even market it to seem more Chinese, thereby nullifying your point about it seeming too foreign.
And, “the idea of incorporating disparate elements from a variety of disciplines, cultures and people to produce something new – for better or worse” is actually kind of the ideal behind the Harmonious Society platform the CCP preaches that the reporter alluded to.
In short, if US fans can cheer a triangle choke, anyone can. The Chinese already do applaud submissions. Trust me. I’ve heard them do it with my own ears.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Sep 19, 2010 6:50 AM EDT reply actions
As far as the Fischer and the UFC's approach to marketing in China
it’s obvious from their responses and the pace they’re taking that they, too, are still figuring it out. Until they do, expect more curious answers.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Sep 19, 2010 6:52 AM EDT reply actions
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