Donald Cerrone Wishes Death on Jamie Varner, Gets Homophobic, Partially Retracts
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 14, 2010 12:37 PM EDT
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Oh the dangers of unbridled smack talk. Donald Cerrone went on TapouT Radio on Monday and went way over the line (transcribed by Fight Opinion), there were death threats
INTERVIEWER: "And do you feel that maybe your emotions might have a lot to play in this?"
DONALD CERRONE: "I hope my emotions have all to do, yeah, I hope my emotions have everything to do with this fight. I hope they come out and I'm just fucking fired up and all I want to do is go out there and kill him and that's what going to get me going that first round, you know, I want to come in that first round and just rip his face off, you know that's the plan. I don't want to come in and sit back and let him dictate it, I hope my emotions drive me. I fight better on emotion, ask Leonard, he trains me every day. When I'm hot and some new guy comes in the gym and wants to throw down, that's when I do my best, you know. So, I hope my emotions take over and I just kill this dude. I hope this is the first death in MMA."
He also got very homophobic/sexist:
INTERVIEWER: "I mean, I have to laugh because... I mean, no one hates someone more than you hate Jamie Varner. I mean, it's just..."
DONALD CERRONE: "This is real, this isn't like the WEC trying to get us to you know to amp it up, which I'm not. He's really a fag. I mean, that's what he is, you know, and his true colors will show up. You can't hide your colors, man. They're going to turn up and everyone's going to see. He's going to call timeout or he's going to look for a way out, he's got the bitch gene, man, and when you have a bitch gene it don't matter what you do you can't fight and you're either born with it and that's who you are as a person and you can't fix that, you know, and it's going to come out."
He apologized later on Twitter, but only for the death threat:
@TapouTWorldWide I don't really wish death on anyone!! Just got caught up in talking s***! My apologies @jamievarner! Took it to far
He went on to do a much more controlled interview at SBNation.com but this won't get a fraction of the attention:
Are you worried about your emotions affecting you in this fight? Are you worried that because of the emotional nature of this fight you'll somehow stray from the gameplan?
I'm hoping my emotions just take over and that's what drives me to take over when I'm tired and sore. I want my emotions to just help me push through.
Are you worried about how he might react in this fight? Let his emotions get the better of him somehow?
I really dont give a shit about anything he has to do. This fight is all about me. It's about me dictating the pace and speed. Where the fight goes has nothing to do with him, so as far as what he's planning on doing? I don't care.
Steve Cofield comments:
Trash talk is a way of life in the fight game but it seems too often that guys are ripping out the homophobic or anti-female material. There's plenty of ways to call someone a wimp without stooping to hateful levels.
As far as, "the first death in MMA" line, Cerrone did apologize last night on Twitter. The guess here is that nothing will happen to Cerrone. It looks like UFC's flap with Mir probably went a little deeper than just his now infamous line on Pittsburgh radio. But fighters should take notice. Stop saying you want to kill your opponent.
There's a bit of a fly trapped in amber quality about the Cerrone/Varner feud. They've both been beaten by current WEC lightweight champ Benson Henderson since their infamous fight at WEC 38. Neither man is really on the upswing in his career and they're trapped in a low-paying, second tier promotion whose ratings are on the downslide.
Don't get me wrong, I love the WEC, but only it's Featherweight and Bantamweight divisions are world class and even those are not drawing viewers unless Urijah Faber is fighting. Until Zuffa extricates itself from it's current Spike TV and Versus Network contracts and can merge the FW and BW classes into the UFC and reorganizes the WEC as a true feeder league for prospects, fighters in the WEC lightweight division are in an odd netherworld with no clear path to the top.
The Cerrone/Varner feud should at least build some heat for the September 30th WEC 51 card which is utterly stacked, but the fact that he went too far and now has to reel it back in deflates any build he achieved.
I have no doubt that the antipathy between Cerrone and Varner is 100% genuine and not some Chael Sonnen/Tito Ortiz pro wrestling style build requiring kayfabe, but honestly, it's easier to do effective fight promotion if you don't really hate the opponent.
Just as Cerrone's coach Greg Jackson will tell you it's imperative that fighters control their emotions in the cage and not fight from anger, it's also helpful if they can exert self-control while smack talking to build a fight.
UPDATE: Some of you apparently forgot that Frank MIr lost his announcing job with the WEC over making death threats in pre-fight smack talk. Also check out this piece on WEC fighter Anthony Njoukuani and how his career was impacted by making homophobic remarks on twitter.
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homophobe-phobia is getting out of hand
Overreacting and branding people as homophobes is all the rage now, chill the fuck out
by Disco1Stu on Sep 14, 2010 11:59 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Would you feel that somebody dropping a racial slur in an interview could qualify them as a racist?
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Sep 14, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the difference is that people choose to be black.
Wait… What was I saying?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
seriously though there have been an awful lot of bitch moves from Varner.
But apparently he can’t help it ….. the cowboy says its genetic .
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Sep 14, 2010 12:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
should we be worried about the persecution of bitches? ?
If it is in fact genetic …
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Sep 14, 2010 12:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
anonymous blogger calls fighter a bitch...
Kind of makes you seem like, i don’t know,,,,, a bitch.
didnt call him a bitch, i said he acts like one. maybe he just plays one on tv.
1. Varner ask for a time out to put his mouth piece in after being rocked by razor rob.
2. Elects to go to the cards rather than finish his title defense against a strong finisher.
3. Claims “he came to fight” and bendo just came to grapple after being stopped by one of the most deadly finishing moves in mma ( a choke).
4. A bunch of his team moved to a different gym due to the general punk- bitchery that was perpetuated in and around there according to them.
And I assure you I have no problem telling people inperson when I think they are acting like a bitch.
"Even Hulkamania wouldn't get you out of this hold"
"True strength is not always shown through victory. Stand up, try again and display strength of heart."
by the-gentle-way on Sep 14, 2010 1:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Being a bitch is genetic
Its calling someone a woman in a vulgar way. In reality, in the past year in Bellator and Strikeforce we have seen that some bitches can really fight and they aint no punks.
But Cerrone isnt dissing women or gay people in this. Hes just a guy with a lacking vocabulary. But should we really expect him to be very articulate? He gets hit in the head for a living
Rec'd if i weren't on mobile
As a high school teacher/coach that regularly hears “bitch” or “fag” to insult individuals neither female nor homosexual. I’ve given up on trying to correct this speech when its under this context. I’m a young teacher and young people just have adapted this language to fit other meanings. In fact, I’m impressed that young people overall or less misogynistic and far far less homophobic than even just a generation ago.
NOTE: I would never condone that language if used in that context against a woman or a gay individual or even an individual “targeted” as gay. Btw, I think we also need to seriously consider reducing the so-called offensiveness behind the word “retard” when not related to people with special needs.
by flassasin24 on Sep 15, 2010 10:09 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The fact that you wouldn't condone that language against the individuals it supposedly refers to is exactly the point.
It’s meant as an insult to be compared to them which is why it’s so offensive. The words imply that to be gay or female is to be lesser than the alternative and that underlying hostility is the problem.
"Before I do anything I ask myself, "Would an idiot do that?" And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." - Dwight Schrute
Yeah but Cerrone probably isn't meaning to imply that, hes just dumb
In both instances he meant “bitch” and “fag” to mean cowardly. Yeah sure, you can say then ur implying that women and gay people are cowards. But the truth of the matter is if you look up these words in a modern dictionary, “cowardly” is actually one of the synonyms. The slang terms in the english language are hateful like that
Cerrone just didnt do well enough in english class to work bad tendancies out of his speech. Blame tv, movies, and bad parents if you want to. I just don’t think this is proof Cerrone is sexist, just really really dumb
What does having no vocabulary or getting hit in the head have to do with not having any class?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
I guess you have a point
But there are tons of classless fighters that talk trash without offending groups of people. Kos, BJ, and Nick Diaz come to mind. Thats why people still love them
Like when Kos told a Canadian crowd that the Penguins would beat the Canadians for the Stanley Cup, then he’d take the belt from GSP. Its cleaver gamesmanship
Id be choked man
that is just like racism
by theworldismine on Sep 14, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
any job
where you are judged entirely on your skill… it leads to all sorts of ignorant folks running their mouths. Normal workplaces fire dudes like this if actual human interaction and politics is an important part of the job. However, if you have a skill, and people value that skill above all other traits, people will let you get away with murder. See Gibson, Mel.
Unless actual fines or firings occur when someone blatantly crosses the lines, this will always be a problem.
Seriously, Marcus Davis got accused if being a homophobe for being offended by someone calling him gay. It’s just getting ridiculous, it’s like people are trying to rack up PC points by being the first to yell out homophobe. You’re all very progressive and I’m impressed, but chill out.
btw the fuck does tool in stool mean
That was really not a big deal at all. Bisping calls people fags in press conferences and no one bats an eye. Njokuani calls Roller a fag on twitter and no one cares. Mir took some heat for a death comment, but he’s a main eventer in the UFC. This is pretty much a non-event to me. It’s fight hype that crossed the line a bit. He apologized, it’s done.
http://www.instrength.com
he didn't apologize for the "fag" remarks at all
and for the record, Njokuani took a real career blow from his comments. More because MMA fans don’t like guys who disparage ground fighting than for homophobia but still.
MMA has a large gay and female fan base and it’s just shitty to dis a huge segment of fans like this.
And equally importantly, this kind of talk is outside the bounds of what the MSM allows from public figures. If we want to remain ghetto we can continue to talk like we’re fresh out of prison.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 14, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think calling someone a fag is “talk like we’re fresh out of prison”. I grew up in an enviornment where you called a guy a fag not for being gay, but acting the way Varner generally does. He’s not saying he’s a homosexual, he’s saying he acts like a bitch. I don’t understand why people are so quick to be offended. This is a brutal sport, brutal language shouldn’t be surprising.
by Danny Glover on Sep 14, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Look
I know this argument, and I understand it. I say “fag” sometimes too. And I don’t mean it to bring down homosexuality. I get that. BUT YOU CAN’T SAY IT TO THE PRESS!
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Sep 14, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 12 recs
This I agree with
There are places where it’s stupid to use that type of language.
http://www.instrength.com
and we're discussing one of those places
I come from the sticks and stones school in my personal life, but when you’re talking about PR it’s a different beast.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 14, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
don't get mad cause they called out this *spoof* piece
I don’t condone discriminating remarks in anyway… lets clear the air on that…
But most people agree that now-a-days, unless otherwise directly spoken to a homosexual (or in reference), “fag”, or comments like, “don’t be gay” just mean “don’t be stupid” or “don’t be a bitch”… It’s obvious by his followed remarks that this was what he meant. And it’s obviously clear he does not want to kill Varner… that’s just trash talk…
This is hardly “prison talk”… you’ve either obviously just wanted to out roar the masses with a stupid accusation (to gain attention to your piece), or you’ve lived a sheltered life on words… anyone can tell it’s just pre-fight banter… nothing wrong with that… I would say grow up, but we both know you just wrote this for “attention” purposes……
media sigh
by One Zero Five on Sep 14, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Most people agree?
I think you mean most kids that grew up learning polite conversation from XBox Live.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
by jemaleddin on Sep 14, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I'm not "media"
I’m a fan with a blog.
This site is a hobby for everyone involved. Yeah we’d like it to be more than that, but it’s not.
I wrote this piece because I was interested in it.
Sadly, no one gives a shit about the WEC, Jamie Varner or Donald Cerrone.
If I wanted to attention troll, I’d be posting about Brock Lesnar, Fedor, or Dana White.
smarten up son.
and as for the “acceptability” of terms like “fag” and “gay” as euphemisms for stupid, I’m afraid the PC police won this one.
I don’t make the MSM rules of conduct, nor do I like all of them, but they are what they are and slurs are OUT.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 14, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I did start with "I don't condone discriminating remarks"
but it is…. what it is… and the fact IS… that this has had no impact on the sport, and would have no impact on the fighters if there wasn’t a media – driven outrage. Almost no one here knew of these remarks until this “blog”… and like it or not, blogs are a media outlet.
And maybe all the places I’ve lived are completing unique to each other and sheltered… but in this day in age, people cus…. and 99% of the time, when I hear the words fag or gay, it is not referenced to homosexuality. It may not be “proper” or socially acceptable in certain circles, but it’s language that’s obviously adapting. – There is no question… it is clear he is not speaking to homosexuality… so either “yes”, your trolling… or you have branching away from (what at least I see in today’s predominate world) common lingo.. – it’s not meant to be discriminatory…. And I can’t believe it’s not trolling when you try to make a big deal of him saying he wanted to kill Varner… it’s obviously pre-fight banter (to repeat myself)… yes, Mir got crap for it… double standard… yes… but that’s only because his comments where blown out of context by main stream media.. it was just hype.. every “level headed” person knows that… it was ridiculous that he had to come out and formally announce that…
by One Zero Five on Sep 14, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Cerrone apologized for the remarks
long before I posted on this.
Did you know that Frank Mir lost his WEC announcing gig for making death threats?
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I assumed Miguel got a TRO
Mothers know nothing about creeping marauders burrowing through the snow toward the kitchen where only you and you alone stand between your tiny, huddled family and insensate evil.
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 14, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought they gave Fir , I mean Mir, the boot so they could set Bonner up with a job once his fighting career wheezes to it’s painful conclusion.
Your beliefs become your reality.
by Hardy's in your face on Sep 14, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not so happy about it
Bonner is turrible as an announcer. I may dislike Frank Mir as a fighter, but I liked him on the WEC shows.
"People ask, 'Why Baltimore?', and I’m like, 'Why not? What am I missing?'" - Buck Showalter
Yes, but undeniably he did so...
because of the “higher” hand of his employment. He didn’t regret his comments because he knew he made an immoral discriminatory remark or because he really wished death to his opponent (as your title would mislead).
— As I stated, he meant it in the way he said it… which had nothing to do with homosexuals (or discrimination thereof). It was pre-fight banter to gain attention to their fight… A million fighters have said this… it’s only becoming a problem since Mir…. UFC has a watchful PR eye now because of all the media trolling on Mir’s comments…
Besides, there may have been other lurking reasons to pull him from the commentators chair…. Although PR is a beast (and will go way overboard to prove how much they don’t condone something)… It’s debatable on how beneficial it is to utilize one of your top contending heavyweights as an announcer anyway…. (number one contender at that time)…. yes, a drawl for attention to the WEC… but at what expense… tying up someone in a commentating gig, when they had the potential to be the next HWC would not have been so smart….
by One Zero Five on Sep 14, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
But most people agree that now-a-days, unless otherwise directly spoken to a homosexual (or in reference), "fag", or comments like, "don’t be gay" just mean "don’t be stupid" or "don’t be a bitch"
Bull
The reason it has taken on those meanings is because people equated stupidty and cowardice with homosexuality.
It’s like saying it’s OK to use the term ‘nigger rigged’ to describe a poorly maintained piece of equipment since it is a catchall term rather than one directed solely at African Americans. Bullshit. The term came into use because it was assumed that black people were inferior and couldn’t perform even simple maintenance tasks. Just because the term is not directly applied to black people does not mean that it is not incredibly offensive.
The same goes for using ‘fag’ and ‘bitch’ in a generic catchall context. Homosexuals and women find those terms offensive no matter how accepted they have become in the popular lexicon.
by Steve4192 on Sep 14, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 12 recs
I couldn't agree with you more.
For the most part people have come to accept that overtly racist remarks, even when not referring directly to the race in question (i.e. your example), are unacceptable. However, these kind of sexist and homophobic comments have an underlying message of intolerance and hostility that perpetuate themselves by masquerading as harmless insults.
"Before I do anything I ask myself, "Would an idiot do that?" And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." - Dwight Schrute
difference in personal experiences then, I guess...
I see women use “bitch” just like any other man/person.. it doesn’t reference a woman (unless a person is referring to one derogatorily)…. And I’m not referring to my personal life.. just watch any reality program, or school, or just about anywhere in society.. From “upper class” to “the ghetto”, I see this language in effect… in this usage… Men & women are called “bitch” alike…. Just like many words in the English language, it can have several meanings, depending on the context…
(e.g. – don’t be a bitch = don’t be scared… your a bitch man = your a stupid ass… bitch be crazy = guy/girl acting stupid).. with language constantly adapting, a word can mean just about anything now days.. it’s slang, which opens up to whatever… It’s obvious he’s not referencing homosexuals..
by One Zero Five on Sep 14, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
regardless of what he may, or may not, have been referencing, it doesn’t make it right, nor does it make it acceptable. especially when said to the press and/or via twitter for all to see.
You may be correct....
but as language adapts, so does acceptability… people say, “stupid” in the media all the time… this was totally unacceptable 15 years ago… at one point in time, people couldn’t even sleep in the same beds on TV shows… but as all things do… it changed…. language changes… and from what i’m seeing… these words are as well…
you have shows on TV like “Family Guy” that have all sorts of profound language on a “professional” TV network…. blowing words out of proportion by taking them out of context doesn’t justify the means…
by One Zero Five on Sep 14, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
All in the family
was not meant to champion the cause of bigotry but to show people how stupid people can be when they are bigots. Also Archie Bunker had many experiences on the show where he actually realized he was wrong.
by Papercut Elbow on Sep 14, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
How do you think terms like ‘bitch’ and ‘fag’ took on pejorative meanings? It wasn’t arbitrary. It was because certain people associated those negative qualities with women and homosexuals.
Just because it is currently accepted in certain circles does not mean it should be. I’m old enough to remember when calling someone ‘jewish’ because he was being cheap or the aforementioned ‘nigger rigged’ were nowhere near as taboo as they are today. Thankfully, the bigoted overtones of those terms was eventually recognized and they were slowly erased from the popular lexicon.
I for one am looking forward to the day when ‘fag’ and ‘bitch’ join them on the scrap heap of outdated bigoted slang.
by Steve4192 on Sep 14, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
look dude... i mean no harm by my take on this...
but it is, again… what it is… and I find that regardless of where these words MAY have spawned from… they are not meant (at least in main stream society now) as discriminatory remarks against homosexuals or women.. besides… some of these words were not created with those meaning anyway… my understanding is that “gay” meant happy at one point in time… and “bitch” meant female dog…. THEY THEN adapted into discriminating remarks… and THEY ARE NOW adapting to less offensive, non discriminatory remarks… language adapts… and you should be happy that it’s adapting away from discrimination.. I don’t make it this way… it’s natural progression of the English language (or of people)… language adapts new meanings… maybe it still shouldn’t be used… but it’s obviously not being used in a discriminatory manner….
At least (that is) in Cerrone’s comments..
by One Zero Five on Sep 14, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
but it’s obviously not being used in a discriminatory manner….At least (that is) in Cerrone’s comments..
I completely disagree with your assessment. The fact that he used the words “fag” and “bitch” in a derogatory manner makes them discriminatory by definition. Whether he’s referring to homosexuals or women directly makes no difference, he’s still using slurs commonly used to describe them as a means to emasculate his opponent.
"Before I do anything I ask myself, "Would an idiot do that?" And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." - Dwight Schrute
Use Fag in the presence of gay people
See if they are not offended. It’s an offensive word. I think people need to grow up.
by Papercut Elbow on Sep 14, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
End of comments right here.
We all say shit we shouldn’t, we just don’t do it on the record.
agree with everything here
It’s very likely Cerrone was saying fag as in:
"Frankie Edgar... beat the fuck out of Snooki, that's why she looks like Dio after Sabbath." --Joey Diaz
by Anthony Pace on Sep 14, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Right, he's not acting like a homosexual man, he's acting like a woman.
That really clears it up and makes it less offensive.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
by jemaleddin on Sep 14, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I grew up in an enviornment where you called a guy a fag not for being gay, but acting the way Varner generally does.
Ah, this old chestnut.
Ignorant people using a word they don’t understand the etymology of doesn’t change its meaning.
by Chris Nelson on Sep 14, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
ahhh, the old tard face...
your right…. language never adapts…..
by One Zero Five on Sep 14, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
"tard"
is not an acceptable term on BloodyElbow or any SBNation site. And that’s not my decision, that’s corporate policy. You’ve been warned.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 14, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How did Njokuani take a career blow? Something that hasn’t come out in public? His loss to Maciej Jewtuszko seemed to hurt more than anything.
Calling someone a fag is talking like we’re “fresh out of prison”? Tell that to Michael Bisping, who said it on stage at a press conference. Dana rebuked him in a joking way, that’s it, no heat came his way at all. I’m not defending the right to use words that offend people, I just think it’s a word with less heat attached to it nowadays than you’re implying there is. I might take heat for that comment myself, but I believe it to be true.
http://www.instrength.com
oh I'll defend his right
to say all kinds of self-defeating stupid shit. But it doesn’t help the cause of taking MMA mainstream when you frequently speak in such a way that if the MSM was paying attention they’d jump your shit.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 14, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
the only reason
this is getting attention is because of your piece…. no one cared before, and no one really cares after… tomorrow, this will be an after thought… it will not hit main stream media (tv, paper, etc), and it will not harm MMA… 90% of the readers in this sections never even new of it… (much less the 12039832059702345078 millions of people who don’t care)…
by One Zero Five on Sep 14, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the Yahoo piece Steve Cofield wrote
will out do us in traffic and attention, sadly.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 14, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I really find it offensive that you think this is only an issue because of Nate’s piece. Varner’s ignorant, incensitive rant is offensive no matter the context, no matter the venue that this interview took place.
Its not acceptable to say the things he’s said, flat out. You can try to justify what he said all you want. Its rude, insulting and ignorant. You can think that what he meant was not a slight against gays or women, but it is. Just because you and your friends think its okay to call someone a faggot instead of a loser, that doesn’t suddenly mean the word has changed its meaning. Its still a hurtful and disgusting word.
by sadface on Sep 15, 2010 3:17 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Okay so....
it’s okay for someone to change the meaning of the word, “fag” to something derogatory… but not okay for society to take back the word and make it less hateful and discriminatory?? “fag” is not like all perceived discriminating remarks…. it actually has a real meaning in the English dictionary… some “guy & his friends” used it as slang for “your gay” at some point… and it took hold…
The real meaning….
“fag” – as listed in “dictionary.com”
–verb (used with object)
1. to tire or weary by labor; exhaust (often fol. by out): The long climb fagged us out.
2. British. to require (a younger public-school pupil) to do menial chores.
3. Nautical. to fray or unlay the end of (a rope).
–verb (used without object)
4.Chiefly British. to work until wearied; work hard: to fag away at french.
5. British Informal. to do menial chores for an older public-school pupil.
–noun
6. Slang. a cigarette.
7. a fag end, as of cloth.
8. rough or defective spot in a woven fabric; blemish; flaw.
9. Chiefly British. drudgery; toil.
10. British Informal. a younger pupil in a British public school required to perform certain menial tasks for, and submit to the hazing of, an older pupil.
11.a drudge.
——- Some dude & “his buds” flipped this word into a derogatory remark… and now the society I live in (and not just “me & my buds”) is saying nope… we’re moving away from that…. more to just mean another word for stupid… BESIDES, call me crazy (and I’m sure soomeeoneee will)… but I don’t find “fag” as a derogatory remark to gay people anyway. The “old slang” meant at saying “your gay”… That’s like calling a straight guy straight… “so what?”, would be my reply… go ahead… take a word out of the dictionary… pick one… and make a slang word out of it to mean straight…. then call a straight guy that… even say it in a “mean way”…. go ahead… pick a word… - I’ll help you… the word I’m randomly picking is… “fan” (close in proximity)… so go yell at a straight guy that he’s “an f’ing fan”…. he would most likely say WTF??? go ahead… then explain to him how you changed the word to mean straight…. so you basically just said, “your a f’ing straight guy”…… hmm.. wonder if he’ll get offended..
--
The word does not mean homosexual.. and it doesn’t mean stupid either… the language adapted new meaning through word of mouth… and continuing down an evolving path….. I don’t like discrimination any more than anyone else.. but to me, this isn’t being used that way.. and it wasn’t really a discriminating remark to begin with..
I also find it hypocritical that you apparently think its not “rude, insulting, and ignorant” to call someone a loser…… so it’s okay to discriminate the less fortunate by your means??? I personally think "loser’ is more hurtful.. that’s beating someone when they’re down… or even after they really tried at something (a failed test, a failed run into home plate, a failed shot at “making it big”) – some crap like that… yeah, call that guy/gal a loser.. that’s okay…
Now before any examples might find themselves against me… let it be known that I’m referring to a word that is truthfully not a discriminating remark by definition… by made up slang, maybe… but again.. that’s a matter of ones stance on the word…. you can call me a straight guy all you want… you can even yell at me, “your a FAN” in a discriminatory manner… but I’ll just say, “way to go buddy… your right… I’m straight…” plus, I’ll probably think your a bit weird for calling me a fan… but so be it…
I AM NOT actually referring to racial words/terms that were indeed CREATED & ARE BY DEFINITION hate words….
by One Zero Five on Sep 15, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Its rude and ignorant to call anyone a fag. Using it in place of any other “normal” putdown is also insulting. Don’t put words in my mouth and don’t call me a hypocrite for it.
And again, justify it how you want, but fag is a hurtful word no matter how many times you try to tell me its not.
by sadface on Sep 15, 2010 6:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
this excellent piece answers your question
The Rise and Fall of Anthony Njokuani
before the comments:
Putting the wrestling debate to one side, one thing that was definitely improving for Njokuani was his status within the WEC. Following three consecutive impressive victories, Njokuani found himself conducting more interviews, being featured in more articles, and in general, being exposed more to the wider audience. As stories of his difficult childhood emerged, fans soon had another reason to respect Njokuani other than for his striking, as his rags-to-riches story allowed fans to empathise with the Nigerian-born fighter. In his own words, he confessed:“I can feel that they’re trying to put me out there…since [the WEC] put my name out there, more and more people are noticing me”.And so as the year drew to a close, Anthony Njokuani had risen from being a ‘nobody’ to become one of the ‘must-watch’ fighters in the WEC. Both his relaxed demeanour outside the cage, and his aggressive striking style inside had won him many supporters and plaudits. The script was set: Anthony Njokuani was destined to earn himself a title fight in 2010.
and after:
Whilst the most faithful supporters hoped that Njokuani would keep improving on his wrestling as he tried to work his way back to contention, some fans were unconvinced and doubted whether Njokuani would ever possess the wrestling required to reach the pinnacle of the sport. Then, a couple hours after the match, Njokuani posted this now-infamous message out of the blue:Roller wants to come out and say that was easy. I don’t think so. Let me be in the right state of mind and will see if its easy fag. Be a man and stand. We’re here to fight, not make love.For the supporters of the hard-hitting Nigerian striker, the message came as both a shock and a disappointment. It showed that Njokuani did not seem to fully understand the ‘mixed’ aspect of Mixed Martial Arts, and his remark hinted that Njokuani would never himself fully embrace the ground game. Secondly, in the heat of the moment, Anthony used a derogatory homosexual term which would open the floodgates to discussions about homosexuality in MMA. Lastly, by insulting his opponent after the match via Twitter, Njokuani presented himself as a sore loser with a juvenile mentality.
Although Njokuani apologised immediately after the incident, the damage was already done. Aside drawing negativity from fans, the message also seemed to negatively effect his standing with the WEC. Once a main event draw, Njokuani was relegated down to the preliminary events , and furthermore, he was given an unknown Polish debutant as his opponent. Basically, ‘The Assassin’ was in a situation where he had little to gain – if he had lost, his relevancy in the title ladder would take a huge fall, but even if he had won, his opponent’s virtual anonymity meant that he would still have a long journey back to the top.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 14, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
See, I don’t agree with the last part of this. Njokuani is certainly not the first guy that lost a top-tier fight in his division in the WEC and has been demoted to the undercard, especially considering the card he was on. And talking about Jewtuszko like that, who was an undefeated, highly-touted prospect, is kind of insulting. To me, this is all speculation about supposed “punishment” for Njokuani following the incident.
Can someone in the know actually tell me if he was REALLY punished by the WEC?
http://www.instrength.com
I love how people act like there's no consequences for anything.
Fans hate Bisping for his talk, and it lowers his value. Njokuani caught tons of shit for his statements and lost credibility. Mir hasn’t done commentary for a WEC event since that incident. Jeremy Stephens lost sponsorship opportunities after his twitter remarks.
Plus, what Nate just said.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
If anything, Bisping’s value is RAISED by the way he talks. People want to see him get his ass kicked. I don’t know of much heat that Njokuani got at all, nor do I know of any sponsorship opportunities missed out on by Stephens, but I’m not in the know in that regard.
Using statements like you did is massive hyperbole. “no consequences for anything”? That’s ridiculous, I said nothing of the sort. I didn’t even say Cerrone should get off scot-free here, so I have no clue what you’re talking about. I just said it wasn’t that big a deal to me. That’s it.
http://www.instrength.com
Here's what I was talking about.
That was really not a big deal at all. Bisping calls people fags in press conferences and no one bats an eye. Njokuani calls Roller a fag on twitter and no one cares. Mir took some heat for a death comment, but he’s a main eventer in the UFC.
You’re marginalizing very real consequences that has cost these guys money for being PR liabilities. Lots of people care, and the offenders wallets care too.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
MMA is trying to go mainstream
People dropping slurs wont help it get on broadcast tv.
by Papercut Elbow on Sep 14, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Bisping
just said the word, Njokuani has never been the same since those remarks got him heat. The difference with this is Cerronce doesn’t just call him a fag in an insulting form, he actually refers it as him being gay, and having " the bitch gene". Thats much worse than just saying someones a “fag”
by theworldismine on Sep 14, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Bisping said “I didnt wanna look like a faggot cuz there was vaseline in my eye” or something close to that.
http://www.instrength.com
Plus, he's British, so who knows what he meant.
I wish they’d give him Toney-titles half the time.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
“fighters in the WEC lightweight division are in an odd netherworld with no clear path to the top.”
perfectly said. any idea when the Spike/Versus television contracts expire?
and I believe they're renegotiating one or both
later this year.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 14, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-55wC5dEnc
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
sucks so much the season is over. ricky gervais as the bad doctor was some of the best shit on the show
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
by The Blackula on Sep 14, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Bringing in the other doctor to also fuck with Louie was hilarious.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Sep 14, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Southpark
I thought that episode about the word “FAG” settled all the arguments.
South Park?
That’s still a thing? Huh. Who knew?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Better than Family Guy
Mothers know nothing about creeping marauders burrowing through the snow toward the kitchen where only you and you alone stand between your tiny, huddled family and insensate evil.
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 14, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Family Guy?
That’s also still a thing?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Last season of South Park was a lot better than some previous ones.
Family Guy is a little past redundant and needs to be laid to rest. It reminds me of the time my grandfather had Alzheimer’s…
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 14, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Looks like I'm rooting for a double KO.
Mo Johnston finally fired. Let the house cleaning and road to success begin.
yeah hahahaa
id like to see benson somehow tune both of them together
by theworldismine on Sep 14, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm rooting for Varner
His antics make me laugh, whereas Cerrone just makes me feel ashamed.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Sep 14, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
there is a Brokeback Mountain cowboy joke somewhere in here
"How do you shoot the devil in the back? What if you miss?"
It still blows my mind.
That there is a movie about gay cowboys called BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN.
That would be like having The Accused titled The Worst Pinball Tilt EVAR!
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
by The Blackula on Sep 14, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s not nice. Nate works very hard around here.
by Chris Nelson on Sep 14, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks for sticking up for me Chris
wait a minute!
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 14, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
haha cerrone is a power bottom
really though, didn’t the southpark episode clear this issue up?
also, he isn’t being sexist using the word b*tch. that is a bit of a stretch
I’ve got big walnuts. Gorilla nuts.
by Austin Martin on Sep 14, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
When I get called a “fag” it’s because people don’t like my sexuality. Once upon a time I knew people who used it to mean “STUPID” but then, I graduated highschool and moved out of rural ohio. Sure, I hear it now and then and it’s not biggie…in the gay community…or maybe over hearing teenagers address one another. The word takes a fairly different context in different situations and I don’t happen to associate with teenagers. Also, Southpark settled the “fag” thing about as much as say, Michael Richards took care of the n-bomb thing.
Fact of the matter is, when a man calls another man such a thing, they mean to bring down their masculinity, and in this case, their willingness to fiiiight and be tough, because in Donald’s mind, a real man encages without complaint and you know, fucks women. Used in this context, he was calling him less of a man, because cowardice and complaining is not the realm of real men, it is the realm of the “fag”, who Donald views as less than worthy. Pretty cut and dry homophobia. If you want to use naughty words, use them, it’s cool, but think about the words leaving your mouth, especially if you are on record. Athletes are astoundingly insecure people sometimes, and out bursts like this are not entirely surprising when one is trying to talk shit on the other.
Also, Kid Nate, that’s a might fine caption, Donald always seemed like more of a power-bottom to me.
For a nice and funny take on the word, here’s a fantastic clip from Louie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-55wC5dEnc
by bigstupidsmile on Sep 14, 2010 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 10 recs
I often say “That’s so gay” when something is dumb but not really homo at all. When I’m around gay guys, I change it to “That’s so straight.” They like the joke.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Sep 14, 2010 1:08 PM EDT reply actions
Lol @ the author of this article. Death threats? Homophobic? People say I’m gonna kill him all the time, it isn’t actually a death threat, pre fight hype buddy.
Big deal he called him a fag. 99% of the time someone says fag they aren’t even referring to a gay person, and even if he was using it to call him a gay man, so what. The man doesn’t like fags. I don’t even know where the hell you’re pulling sexist from in the comment either.
Another author just trying to make up a story when there isn’t one.
another commenter gone in a moment
I’ve got big walnuts. Gorilla nuts.
by Austin Martin on Sep 14, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not banning any of these guys for this
I don’t care what they have to say about me.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
provided they follow the rules of the site
but if they start namecalling…
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Why is Rule #4 getting pissed on so much these days. You guys are getting soft in your old age.
If you want to hear my opinion on Les Miles go to BJPenn.com.
Luke must've shaved
I’ve got big walnuts. Gorilla nuts.
by Austin Martin on Sep 14, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you have it backwards
The faggot comment was the ONLY thing he apologized for. He went out of his way to apologize for it and to mend fences with gay & lesbian community.
Maybe I didn’t see as much of the post-f-bomb PR as you did, but in my opinion it was a non-apology apology. He said that someone gay “I didn’t mean it like that,” but when you deploy the word the way he did, there is only one way you mean it: it is functioning in precisely the way explained by bigstupidsmile a few comments up. Shortly after the shitstorm he made a weird video blog with tape over his mouth that I took as a flippant retort to the reaction of the media and some of the public to what he still considered a harmless word usage.
Odd, where was the outrage at James Tony?
Media loves to call out a white guy and paste a label to his chest but black people can say dam near anything and they get away with it.
Enough with this phoney outrage, you dont care when the black dude says it so leave the white guy alone to. Hes a god dam fighter, who cares if he makes angry statements? He punches people in the face for a living.
oh jesus
not the reverse racism card again. Toney was criticized early and often for that shit here and elsewhere. But he was mostly hated on for hating MMA itself rather than the homophobia.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Cerrone ...
is an overrated jerk who nut-shots people on purpose. that first interview ought to be enough to get him fired and out of the WEC — and off my TV.
and i dislike Jamie Varner, but suddenly he’s the good guy in all this. that shows you what kind of jerk Cerrone is — he out-douched Varner.
My first novel, Prodigal, will be released Nov. 2, 2010 ... check out Prodigal on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/pages/Prodigal/132020530174927
Or you can check out my website, http://bobthewriter.com
I hope Donald comes out this fired up and focused in the cage after his pathetic performace last time out he needs this win more than anything.
Cerrone is about as talented as they come imo but his ego and confidence usually derails him, Jackson needs to find a way to get him to focus and stop the bs.
Speaking of which another thing that needs to stop is the constant trumpeting of the WEC and UFC merging it’s not going to happen and shouldn’t. It simply makes no sense right now the UFC is perfect the way it is with 5 weight classes anymore than that and it’s overkill for the company and fighters.
It continually amazes me how many people want to kill something that is actually working, then go and turn around and talk about how competition is good for mma. Because the WEC is without a doubt the best product of any company month in and month out, people might want to worry about the fights and leave out the rest if they did maybe the ratings would be better.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
so it's our fault now that the WEC ratings aren't better?
I guess I’ll go ahead and take the blame when UFC 119 stiffs on PPV too.
Now I’ll guess I’m just crazy to think that Jose Aldo vs Manny Gamburyan + the return of the Korean Zombie would add some buys to the UFC 119 PPV.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Homophobic is the wrong word.
He’s not AFRAID of homosexuals. He’s just eluding to someone potentially being one in his opinion as a derogatory remark. Homophobic is totally the wrong word here.
Trying to argue that that's the wrong word is useless.
That’s the word. If you don’t like it, make up a better one and push for it to be standardized. Until then, this is the one we mean for all those things.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
I have gay friends that say "That's gay"
Are they allowed to use it?
Me: Man that’s gay…
*realizing what I’ve said, awkward silence"
My friend (openly gay) : That’s TOTALLY gay.
Check out my pic a day for a year project-
Life Through My Lens
You know, I forget how many idiots we have around here...
…until one of these conversations crops up.
Arguing that you mean something other than a gay slur when you say “fag” just means that you haven’t been thinking about what you’re saying. Words have meanings and trying to escape that is idiotic. How are we all supposed to guess what you mean if you’re writing in your own private code? Maybe when you say “hello” you actually mean, “shove my mom’s used butt-plug in my face and drive it home with that industrial jackhammer she calls a vibrator” — how are we supposed to know?
If you aren’t calling somebody gay, don’t use “fag.” Use “wimp” or “coward” or “pathetic, sniveling little smart-ass that doesn’t have the courage to get up out of his crib, put on his big boy pants and stand up for himself like a man.” And “bitch”? How lazy is that? Have some fucking pride in the insults you use.
Personally, the one that confuses me is when straight guys call somebody “a pussy.” Seriously, you have a problem with pussy now? Speaking personally, I love it. Anybody that doesn’t want their share is free to pass it over here.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
So my question is "What happens when a gay guy says, "that's gay" " ?????
Check out my pic a day for a year project-
Life Through My Lens
Well, if he's referring to his bedroom behavior he's probably spot-on.
But if he’s using it as a pejorative term to describe something unpleasant then he should stop perpetuating the negative association. I have a problem with racist comments regardless of who’s making them, and sexist/homophobic comments should be no different.
"Before I do anything I ask myself, "Would an idiot do that?" And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." - Dwight Schrute
He proves that being gay doesn't mean you can't be an idiot.
What are you proving, that’s my question.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Calling someone a faggot
doesn’t make you homophobic, faggot.
You are homophobiaphobic.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Sep 15, 2010 1:53 AM EDT reply actions
To whom are you responding?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Cerrone needs to look into his own mirror
Who does this jerk look like? He definitely looks a bit less than stable or intelligent. His intelligence level is lower than most. His obvious lack of anything worth beans is only showing when he directed his own low-self-esteem. How could any MMA fan appreciate a ignorant tirade as his and have any respect for him. Apparently, he would do it to you too. There is no loyalty but to himself. Varner should rise above his antics to be noticed and gain attention. Cerrone’s . I would love to see his point of view but I can’t see anything interesting in what he has to say. He needs to go back to that village he came from and assume the village idiot. I heard that the village was missing an idiot that looks alot like him. He might try googling for insight to his lack of professionalism….He is nothing but sleeze…..
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