Antonio McKee and Maurice Smith, Two Great Fighters, One May Never Get His Chance and the Other Has Been Erased from UFC History, Racism?
MFC champ Antonio McKee won quickly and decisively on Friday night via TKO over Luciano Azevedo due to a cut from a nasty elbow. He then called out B.J. Penn and Sean Sherk but with an unusual caveat: "I'm waiting for the UFC to release BJ [Penn] or Sean Sherk so I can tear their ass up, too."
Why is a lightweight with a 25-3-2 record and no losses since a 2003 decision to welterweight Karo Parisyan not even hoping to get "called up" to the big leagues?
His interview with Josh Gross before the fight offers some clues:
McKee: But more powerful than money is politics. I'm not trying to point fingers. I'm just saying, Listen, fighters are out here putting on a show. There are billions and billions of dollars being generated from this sport. Please, athletic commissions, stand behind the guys that are making this money. Don't sit up and allow drugs to be so heavily concentrated in mixed martial arts. There's something wrong with this picture. Steroids. Pain killers. Growth hormones. Some of these guys growth hormone levels are so damn high. But you got to have money to afford growth hormones. So if you have a guy making $180,000 a fight, he can afford growth hormones versus a guy making $18,000 to fight. You see what I'm saying? We're always going to put the best in front? Absolutely not. Brock Lesnar comes in with three fights -- he's the UFC world champion? Was this done as a publicity stunt to lure in spectators of WWE or does he truly deserve that title?
SI.com: He won those fights, didn't he?
McKee: Yeah, but he didn't put in enough work, the way I look at it. You can throw him bums if you want or get him a real fight. Or you can open up that division and find out who the contenders are, then present that challenge. To me, it makes the sport kind of tainted when you allow a guy like James Toney to come in with no MMA fights to fight a guy like Randy Couture. I couldn't go fight Floyd Mayweather. I want to go fight Floyd Mayweather because I'm the best fighter in the world. I couldn't go decide I want to play on the Lakers. Well, I watched Herschel Walker walk right into MMA and take a fight. It kind of makes the sport look fishy. This is a suspect sport to me because as far as professionals, the definition I understand, is a pro athlete, not an athlete entertaining. That's why they don't grab their crotch or all that crazy stuff they do in MMA, licking blood.
...
You know there's no other place to go other than the UFC. We all know that. Will I get the time? Will I get the chance? Only they know that. But what I do know is James Toney got in Dana White's face and just went about it a total different way than I am. I'm a man of integrity. I have kids and people that look up to me. I run a nonprofit program, Fight For Kids, a youth program. I can't step down from the level of integrity and respect I have for myself and my students and kids and adults have for me. I can't step down just to get my shot at UFC by calling Dana White out or threatening someone, or talking bad about somebody, personally and directly destroying their character. That would totally destroy everything I've been doing thus far.
...
I've fought some of the best, but do we say they're the best just because they came from the UFC? From the guys that I've beaten that fought in the UFC, I demolished and destroyed. [McKee has a winning record against UFC veterans.] Does that not make me one of the best? Is it the organization that makes the fighter the best, or is it the fighter that makes the organization?
Earlier in the piece he talks about fighter rights and while he explicitly says it's not about color, check out the examples that come to mind in the full entry:
I'm concerned about the fighters. Why? Because no one else does. The promoters don't give a [expletive]. And the fans, you're only good as your last fight. I watched Rampage [Quinton Jackson] knock out Chuck Liddell and we got bottles thrown at us and we got booed. I watched Rampage lose to Forrest Griffin, who comes from The Ultimate Fighter show where there's a lot of sponsorship and marketing going on, in a decision he shouldn't have lost and should have had a rematch. But instead I watched Shogun [Mauricio Rua] kick the [expletive] out of [Lyoto] Machida, and because it wasn't a fair decision, I watched them come back and do a rematch. I watched B.J. Penn get beat by a guy [Frankie Edgar]. They didn't like that so they brought him back and he got his ass kicked again.
This is not an opinion. These are factual things I can legitimately put on the table. I just want an explanation for it. It's not about color. But we all know this is a white-based sport. I told an interviewer earlier today that it's kind of funny to me that Maurice Smith is one of the first UFC champions but has not be inducted into the UFC Hall of Fame. But a lot of the fighters that he fought and beat, they've been accepted into the Hall of Fame. What happened? Forget the skin color. It's what he did. His actions. He was UFC champ and held that title. He knocked out [Mark] Coleman, you remember that? Kicked him with one of the greatest knockouts. But you don't even hear Maurice Smith's name. All of a sudden, he's disappeared. It's just stuff like that I pay attention to.
Note that McKee is wrong about Smith KO'ing Mark Coleman. He won via decision.
It is pretty pathetic that Maurice Smith has been erased from UFC history. I don't think racism played much of a role in that as much as Maurice's association with Frank Shamrock and later the IFL, neither of whom are dear to Zuffa's heart.
But those fans who are ignorant as to the importance of Mo Smith in MMA history are really missing out. He was the first top-tier kickboxer to make a serious commitment to MMA. More importantly, he was the first striker to show how grapplers could be beaten. He developed a strong enough guard game to survive the top assaults of grapplers like BJJ bruiser Marcus "Conan" Silveira and wrestler Mark Coleman and then when he got back to the feet, he beat the crap out of them and took their titles.
Read about those fights in my MMA History series: Smith vs Conan; Smith vs Coleman. No less an authority than "Big" John McCarthy called Smith vs Coleman one of the three most important fights in UFC history because it showed that MMA was not simply a grappler's sport and that strikers have a path to victory.
Whatever is the cause of McKee being frozen out of major MMA promotions like the UFC, Strikeforce, DREAM, WVR's Sengoku and Bellator, it's the fans who suffer. His ground and pound approach may be dull, but when you consider the current top two UFC fighters are Frankie "Dance and Dodge" Edgar and Gray Maynard, the king of the uneventful decision, it's hard to say McKee should be kept out of the UFC.
If we truly believe MMA is a sport, it's long past time to see Antonio McKee get his chance against the top lightweights in the sport. And while it may be premature to demand McKee get an immediate title shot in any of the bigs, I'd be more than happy to see him against B.J. Penn, K.J. Noons, Kenny Florian, Clay Guida or Sean Sherk.
And as for Smith, it's shameful that not only is he not in the UFC Hall of Fame, but most of his UFC fights are not even available on DVD. This is an athlete who played an incredibly pivotal role in MMA history, both in his own career and as a coach for Frank Shamrock during the latter's incredible UFC run.
I think that the UFC's treatment of both men has less to do with racism than with Dana White's aversion to intelligent outspoken fighters who speak up for their own interests, but the perception is there and it's something Zuffa could easily fix. It's not racism, it's political bullshit.
It's time for Antonio McKee to get his shot at the big time and it's time for Maurice Smith to be in the UFC Hall of Fame.
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I dare you to do that again on the next article that pops up.
by Anton Tabuena on Sep 13, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 24 recs
Something tells me Luke won’t be as forgiving.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
Anton
you are being nice for even giving the warning. That first shit is the dumbest thing the internet has ever seen.
Green that shit, BE.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
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by Geno Mrosko on Sep 13, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Richard is a jewel." - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Sep 13, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
did he die?
is dumber! though that would be a perfect comment to Anton’s reply hehe
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
ah come on
if he got the hammer “did he die” would be pretty funny me thinks :p
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
“Fake” and or “Gay” are the two worst comments in internet history.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
when they are put together
is even worse hehe
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
That was such a stupid thing to do, you're now hated by everyone and forever.
I'm a lover not a fighter
BOOOO... THIS MAN!?
As stated by 100 others…
… Leave that BS for other blogs— not here!
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 13, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree.
… 8 more wins to go. ;-)
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 13, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Go Pats!
"If the commission would sanction it and Dana would move, I’d fighter Anderson right now."
- Chael Sonnen at the post fight press conference following his loss to Anderson Silva.
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Before anyone overreacts,
It is worth mentioning that Mckee has openly said that he’s “a conspiracy kind of guy”….
but yes, it’s not only time for him to be in the big league, it’s wayyyyyyyyy overdue.
he's probably just trying to make sense of this world
I mean Sean Sherk the KING of lay and pray has fought for all the bigs.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 13, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Sean Sherk isn’t the king of lay and pray. He gets a bad rap. His fight with Hermes Franca was anyting but lay and pray.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
I'm a big Sherk fan
and loved that fight, but I’m generally the only one. I’m just saying from McKee’s perspective, what has Sherk got that he hasn’t?
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 13, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
No one commented on the hilarity of this? I lol’ed.
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight what you saw, in the ring"
by crinow on Sep 13, 2010 6:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
A history from before he was on the wrong side of 30,
wins against all but top p4p competition, and less racially inflammatory comments.
Oh, from McKee’s perspective? Less melanin.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Sep 13, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Bingo
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Sep 13, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
1) Notable wins
2) Big fights
3) A name
4) Not to mention that he is a former champ
by truck on Sep 13, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Those are all the result of getting the opportunity.
by Jonathan Snowden on Sep 13, 2010 2:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
This is true.
I have said before, McKee should have been given a shot five years ago. Giving him a chance out of pity now seems silly, especially with him running his mouth.
"Affirmative Action hire"
“I’d rather be that than ‘nigga without a job’ "
Chappelle
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure McKee would love the pity hire
It just doesn’t seem worth it for the UFC.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
the UFC hired Loiseau back after the Haiti quake
No “value” in hiring him.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
They hired him back to fight in Montreal, because he’s a draw there. He got hurt and they owed him a fight so he fought in Vancouver again. The Haiti quake has something to do with it?
http://www.instrength.com
He was begging the UFC for a fight to raise money for the Haiti earthquake
as he was donating his purse to that cause.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
That was the Chester Post fight in Montreal, wasn’t it? He wasn’t supposed to fight in Montreal until 4 months after the Haiti earthquake.
http://www.instrength.com
He was asking the UFC for a fight, ended up getting another org to do it
http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Loiseau-Asks-for-UFC-Fight-to-Benefit-Haiti-22077
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Then got a spot on the Montreal card AFTER that win. Still about Haiti? Your point was there was no value in hiring him. Loiseau is a huge draw in Montreal. That was the value, Haiti or not.
http://www.instrength.com
No no. I was saying they hired him after the Haiti quake
not because of it. I was setting the timeframe that he was hired because I remember it was after that incident.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
That fight was more “roid and avoid”
by kanodogg on Sep 13, 2010 12:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Did you really..
just post on an article about Antonio McKee that Sherk is the king of lay-and-pray? Maybe you need to learn a littl more about the man we are talking about.
Fitch gets crap talked about him because he hasn’t finished a fight since 2007…McKee has only finished 2 fights since 2001.
Non-finish =/= Lay and Pray
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, several fights, have you?
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I would love to see him fight in a major promotion
Why not Strikeforce?
by 110 South on Sep 13, 2010 12:00 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
that's an excellent question
why not strikeforce?
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 13, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
So at the end of his career fanboys can still discount his accomplishments
By saying he never fought the best, who are in the UFC.
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
by The Blackula on Sep 13, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
better than now, when he’s fighting Star Trek guys in red suits.
by verloc on Sep 13, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
THis ^
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 13, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
He isn't going to come into the UFC and dominate anyways...
So how would a middling UFC run help his legacy. Truthfully, he should have been in the UFC five years ago.
Does anyone see a huge benefit to either organization signing a whiny and unexciting 40 year old?
by truck on Sep 13, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah
they can snuff out complaints that they’re not truly sporting events and are just peddling spectacle.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 13, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with that logic, but in reality
the people that make those complaints have no idea who Antonio McKee is and he isn’t a factor into the argument. If they signed him do you think the Governor of ______ will be like;
“Oh shit, the UFC signed Antonio McKee, they really are a legit sport.”
by truck on Sep 13, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm talking about fans
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Sep 13, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
The fans are already fans though.
They will complain because people are by nature annoying and whiny, but McKee is still a non factor. The buying public is already buying and the vast majority have no idea who Antonio McKee is.
I would bet that there are more than a few regular readers of this site that have never heard of McKee and a good number more that have never seen any of his fights.
The number of fans that complain about boring wrestlers far outweigh those who have ever heard of McKee let alone are clamoring for him to be signed.
by truck on Sep 13, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good point
And McKee compares himself to terrible draws outside of GSP, and GSP doesn’t whine about what happens. McKee is comparing himself so some of the most crowd averting names in the UFC as if they want an older version of Fitch.
That said, Maurice and Frankie shoulda been in the HOF after Coleman and before Hughes. I understand focusing on drawing power over winning by decision as the sport is still in it’s infancy, but those two even had crowd pleasing styles, so it’s only D-Dub’s personal vendetta against anyone who supports the self-destructive boxing business structure that stands in the way.
[sorry for the tone, but I’m tired and grumpy @work]
Jab, jab, towards, short, fierce.
Nobody who makes the argument that MMA isn’t truly a sport has the faintest idea who Antonio McKee is. The only people who are going to be at all impressed by signing him are hardcores who follow the minor leagues of the sport closely. It makes absolutely no sense for the UFC to hire a 40 year old wrestler with sub-par finishing skills, a reputation for turning down fights, a history of making inflammatory remarks, a history of accusing the company of racism and the nickname “Mandingo”. Especially not when his record includes not a single win against a top 25 opponent. There’s all sorts of old guys out there with gaudy records against crappy opposition. Travis Fulton, Jeremy Horn, Dan Severn, Travis Wiuff, etc. All have more wins, all have faced better competition, all have a solid win streak going (except Fulton, who just had his streak broken by Ricco Rodriguez not too long ago), all have much better finish ratios, yet none are in the UFC. Why? Political bullshit? Or do they just not have the skills to be there?
McKee deserves his shot, I hope Zuffa makes him an offer and a solid fight. Kenny Florian? Jim Miller? Heck why not, BJ Penn?
Don Frye, and Pat Miltech are two other guys who deserve to be in the Hall of fame, so Maurice Smith the only one left out due to his politics.
this is very true
but I can only fight one battle at a time.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 13, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
He probably deserves a shot, but not finishing 18 consecutive fights
while he was in his prime year probably all but ended his chances?
I don’t see any major promotion making a play for a 40 year old fighter.
See legend, sporting
Who donated his whole purse. Inapplicable.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
If he had argued for Frye or Militech
being in the UFC HOF, then he would have lost his “racism” angle. That would have been way less fun.
by IWillPartyHard on Sep 13, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
he didn't have a racism angle
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh you mean Nate, I thought you meant Antonio
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Either works
Nate has McKee quoted as saying “this is a white-based sport.” He claims right afterward that this isn’t about race, but I don’t see how that flies given the context.
Frank Shamrock
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Sep 13, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Does one win...
really earn you a HOF spot? I like Smith especially as a trainer and the guys he’s helped but look at the guys MMA career. Yes, he beat Coleman as one of the biggest underdogs ever. But is that enough to be in the HOF?
If so, Matt Serra should be in soon too.
Why invest in time and money in promoting a 40 year old guy who, despite what he said, has beat absolutely no one of note in the past 7 years? Strikeforce would make sense. The UFC? Hell no. Comparing him to Maynard or Edgar is an insult to those 2 guys, IMO.
http://www.instrength.com
by Tim Burke on Sep 13, 2010 12:02 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
sigh..
another guy saying that signing a talented fighter would be “a risky investment”…
What does the UFC have to lose if he signs McKee? If he loses (and proves youre right), then big deal, cut him after. If he delivers, then the UFC has another talented lightweight… Signing him isn’t an “investment” that could go wrong. It’s win-win either way.
by Anton Tabuena on Sep 13, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not win-win. If he LnP’s his way to a few decision wins, you’re stuck with him. You HAVE to promote him. I don’t care if he busted open Azeredo, this guy does NOT try to finish fights that often. He has a short shelf life, and isn’t worth the money he wants. And make no mistake about it, he wants more money than your average prospect.
http://www.instrength.com
put him in against
a younger bigger stronger faster wrestler and shut him up. That’s a pretty simple problem to fix.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 13, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
He doesn’t deserve that though, that’s the point. Dana White has no NEED to shut Antonio McKee up. He’s a nobody in the grand scheme of things. A few wins in the UFC makes him somebody, which is a bad thing, not a good thing.
http://www.instrength.com
Are you scared of McKee winning
and if wins by decision are (by the comments I am reading here) that bad how many decisions should a fighter win in the UFC before they are cut?
If one sided methodical decisions are that boring the biggest deterrents should be to fire people who continue to win in that fashion.
This IS sports entertainment after all…or is it.
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
by The Blackula on Sep 13, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana’s always said the same thing – win or lose, it’s about being exciting. McKee’s not. And he’s 40. And he’s never beat anyone remotely good.
http://www.instrength.com
then the ufc should have no problem
having one of their top shelf fighters beat a 40 year old guy who barely finishes.
Unless the UFC needs to protect their guys from loosing.
If he beats fighters in Sengoku,Dream, Strikeforce or even the WEC his wins can still be discounted and his opponents seen as subpar.
If he goes to the UFC, then fanboys have nothing to say, but will still find a way to hate. Because thats what haters do.
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
by The Blackula on Sep 13, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Why waste a top-shelf fighter like that? Have him fight other top-shelf fighters. Like I said, some guy beating a bunch of guys in the minors, no matter how much he talks, doesn’t mean he DESERVES a shot against a good UFC fighter. There’s no need to shut him up. Let him go to SF. Let him go to Dream. Let him beat SOMEONE first.
http://www.instrength.com
they signed Jason Reinhardt
and let him fight Joe Lauzon. Reinhardt is old, had faced utter cans and smack talked his way into the UFC.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 13, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Please explain why having another top level fighter isn't a victory for the UFC.
If McKee proves that he belongs with the best fighters, then housing one of the top LWs is NEVER a bad thing.
Ooooh, the UFC is “stuck” with Fitch and Maynard, and the sky will fall if another LNP fighter gets in. Boo Hoo. This is (also) a sport. and getting the best guys should be a priority.
and no… It is win-win. If he bores people to death, then match him up against better and better guys. He only has a short shelf life right? If he loses, then your “problem” is solved. If he keeps winning, then you have another top dog that will retire or lose after a few more fights. That is not a problem. Trust me, they’d have bigger things to worry about than having a “boring” top level fighter in their roster.
by Anton Tabuena on Sep 13, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You don’t think the UFC is learning their Fitch/Maynard lesson? At least those guys are in their primes. Have a 40+ one-dimensional, boring ass fighter is NOT what the UFC needs. If this was purely sport, I’d be on your side. But it’s not. It’s entertainment too, and Mandingo is not entertaining.
The part that everyone’s harping on is that Mandigo is OWED this shot, or that he’s earned it, or that the UFC SHOULD give him a shot. I don’t think so. The UFC does have bigger things to worry about – like entertaining fans.
Bottom line – Antonio McKee needs the UFC. The UFC does not need Antonio McKee. That’s the end of it for me.
http://www.instrength.com
by Tim Burke on Sep 13, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
seriously
how much more expensive and less interesting to fans could he possibly be than Phil Baroni and Frank Trigg?
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 13, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
They have name value. And they had name value for Strikeforce as well, which is why they were brought back. McKee is a nobody to 90% of fans.
http://www.instrength.com
Being a bit in the dark about the guy, I looked at McKee's record
and aside from his two recent finishes, the last time he actually stopped a fight was in 2001. 2001.
Now that McKee popped out a couple finishes against some mid-tire opponents, he’s all flustered about being ignored? I’ve never watched him fight, but I’ve never really heard of many of his opponents either. Screw it, put him in the UFC… I’m all for it. But I don’t know why he’s acting all confused about what the problem has been.
He's been asking for a shot for a while
It’s not just about “finishes”.
But we agree. Put him in and let’s see what he can do.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Why are you so afraid that Mckee could turn out to be a top level fighter?
Let’s just keep our fighters away from the dreaded virus known as Lay n Pray!
Hell, Lentz’s Wall n Stall is an even bigger problem.
by Anton Tabuena on Sep 13, 2010 12:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Afraid is a ridiculous word. I couldn’t care less if he becomes a top fighter. It’s just not in the UFC’s best interests. I don’t know why you wouldn’t acknowledge that. Nik Lentz is 26, and finished nearly every fight before he got to the UFC. He earned his shot. McKee has not.
http://www.instrength.com
As a sport he should
For the sport he absolutely deserves to be in the UFC. From the UFC’s point of view why purposely bring on a boring fighter who may decision his way up to the top and then hold the belt for a while. Why put PPV’s at risk then have to couple them with stacked cards while people at Hooters or Canz or whereever boo at the flatscreens and become less interested in the sport. For casuals who are learning the intricacies of the sport itll look lame and without any entertainment value. You dont want your brand associated with being lame.
by Papercut Elbow on Sep 13, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Fight Nights
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
with the murderer's row of killer wrestlers in the UFC
there is almost no chance of McKee laying and praying his way to a title. Clay Guida, Tyson Griffin, Maynard, Edgar et al have shown that you can’t lay and pray a really good wrestler. McKee isn’t that expensive and he’s been winning by TKO and sub lately.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 13, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
He won by cut in the MFC, and by kimura against an overmatched guy on a C show. Ruiz was 1-4-1 in his last 6 before that. A million straight decision wins over that. He can’t LnP his way to a title, but he can get a few wins, and then it’s hard to bury him on undercards. Once he’s on TV, he’s going to bore people to death. And he’ll be close to 42 by then. It’s pointless.
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I honestly believe he won’t come to the UFC even if they offered him a contract. It’s easier to call people out and scream I’m the best/racist UFC/Strikeforce then actually step up and fight. When dealing with pain in the ass fighters you have 2 kinds. One is Brock who produces incredible fights and money, then you have others who don’t. As a boss I was willing to deal with the BS from the cream of the crop but didn’t have the time or energy from the blow hards.
If McKee would sign for 30/30, I would love to see him get his shot. But thats not how it works and he knows it. He has screamed racism on more than one occasion and he is not worth the PR gamble. McKee is the Milton Bradley of MMA.
30/30? Are you crazy?
Phil Davis makes 9/9k. In what world is Antonio McKee worth as much as Mr. Wonderful, and what world is he three times as valuable?
McKee has nothing new to offer and won’t grow. Save the money on growing prospects for the future and let the guy make better money headlining regionals. It’s right for business and sport.
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by pdl on Sep 13, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I was talking on McKees end.
That is what I think it would take for him to leave. I don’t think he is worth that. Settle down there.
McKee isn’t that expensive and he’s been winning by TKO and sub lately.
Two fights against middling fighters do not erase the trend of the previous 18 fights without a real finish.
by truck on Sep 13, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There no such thing as a guaranteed finish anyway. The point is McKee seems determined to end fights lately, hence the talk about retirement for his last fight.
I'm a lover not a fighter
Making that decision at forty probably wasn’t the best business move.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Sep 13, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
And if he has no chance then why even bother debuting him on the big stage?
by Papercut Elbow on Sep 13, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
The Race card is ridiculously overplayed in America
With good reason I’ll admit, good to see Mckee rising above that.
Get your facts right, McKee
Smith won a decision over Coleman after Coleman gassed.
The spectacular headkick KO of Coleman was done by Pete Williams.
thanks for pointing that out
I missed that in his interview. corrected it in a note.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 13, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh noes stop the presses
He messed up a fact
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
If it was NATE who made the mistake, you'd be right
But it was McKee. You quote fighters as is.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s my new personal policy not to get into stupid nitpicking arguments with you anymore. Just an FYI.
It's cool
But you know I was right tho. :)
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve fought some of the best, but do we say they’re the best just because they came from the UFC?
Many people feels that Fighter A is better than Fighter B because Fighter A competes in the UFC. Then I turn around and watch Jake Shields dominate Dan Henderson . . . the only other middleweight to do that was the current MW champion.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 13, 2010 12:07 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yuck, Another 'boring LnP fighter' that the UFC doesn't need!
by Anton Tabuena on Sep 13, 2010 12:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bullcrap.
Kenny Florian finishes fights…unless he faces someone better.
4 years, 4 coaches, 7 league road wins, 0 playoff games, 1 GM. Fire Mo Johnston.
by SSreporters on Sep 13, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey man
Listen to Kenny, he doesn’t choke, he’s just not very good.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Considering that 15 of McKee's 30 opponents don't even have a wiki page...
I think it is safe to say that they haven’t exactly been world beaters.
by truck on Sep 13, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha i like this statistic! quality of opposition as determined by ‘wikization’ of opponents.
who wants to do the legwork and calculate this for everyone?
www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology
I would love for this to be a new stat for prospects
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Yah but that point is moot because shields is a ufc fighter too, in fact it’s Dan who isn’t. :)
by kanodogg on Sep 13, 2010 12:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Truck, Kanodogg . . .you are missing the point.
I’m just illustrating one small example. Guys like Jason “Mayhem” Miller, Frank Shamrock, and King Mo has been saying the same thing for quite a while. Most rankings are UFC centered. Many UFC fighters compete some where around 2-3 times a year. Some fight more often than others and some might fight 1-2 times a year. Then you have guys that are real f*cking fighters, they’re competing in Japan, the States, Europe, Australia, etc 4 – 5 times a year against some really great competition.
Note, at one point Forrest Griffin became the LHW champion of the UFC.
Brock Lesnar with little to no experience came in the organization and became the heavyweight champion. Had the referee stopped the Lesnar-Carwin fight in the first round, who knows how the internet MMA fans would view him.
Unfortunately I see fans getting caught up in McKee’s penchant for putting his foot in his mouth but overall he made some strong points.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 13, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
There are
streetballers out there in Chicago and MYC that claim to be the best in the world. NBA players don’t need to go find those players and settle it. You go to the NBA to prove your the best. Playing local scrubs everyday versus playing in the NBA every night are 2 different things.
If McKee had this run in Dream/Strikeforce/K1 he WOULD be ranked high. See Aoki, Melendez, Fedor, Ubereem, Zaromski etc.
I'm guessing that MFC deals aren't concrete but what about taking a fight in DREAM.
Or WVR/Bellator/Strikeforce.
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- Yeah Pee Wee Kirkland used to school professional ball players in Rucker.
- On another note, I’ll say this, you go to the World Games or the Olympics to prove your the best. The NBA personnel or the USA Basketball program has not always demonstrated that they’re the best. Shout out to Kevin Durant and Team USA.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 13, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not missing the point
I am just saying I don’t think the point doesn’t always apply and might not apply here for example. That theory really has to be looked at case by case.
Exactly, but I've seen far too many fighters simply dismissed
because they have not fought up to the level of competition in the UFC.
On a case by case basis definitely makes sense.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 13, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
While the contribution to the sport made by that performance by Maurice Smith against Coleman was great, it was still only one fight.. And that fight was really the only fight of significance he had in the UFC. He beat up Tank Abbott and then lost to Randy and Randleman. His win over Ruas was some sort of weird accident and then his only other win was a decision over Bobby Hoffman.
It’s not really hard to see why he isn’t in the UFC Hall of Fame.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
by Sam Cupitt on Sep 13, 2010 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
…as of this moment.
(ffs I’ve had three goes to get this right and i still fucked it up)
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
Thank you
I was wondering if anyone would touch on Mo. His win over Coleman was good, but at the time he was 4-7 in MMA (mostly Pancrase) and fought for the belt in his UFC debut, so he definitely had not “earned” his title shot. His only title defense was against Tank Abbott, and then Mo finished his UFC career with a 2-3 record over his last 5 fights.
Other than his win over Mark, his UFC career was lackluster.
"Vo-cab-u-lary's necessary when diggin' into my library..."
He earned that title shot
by holding the belt of the biggest competing promotion the EFC — a forgotten promotion that intoduced weight classes, rounds and many other innovations.
Believe me, no one at the time complained about Mo getting a shot at Coleman.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 13, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
True
But do you think Maurice Smith is the most glaring exclusion from the UFC HOF?
I think there are at least a few fighters who have a much more convincing argument going for them.
"Vo-cab-u-lary's necessary when diggin' into my library..."
sure
but that is another article entirely
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 13, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Any chance we could see that article soon?
I’d be very interested to see who are the top few fighters on the brink are.
"Vo-cab-u-lary's necessary when diggin' into my library..."
There's more to be told regarding Maurice Smith...
There is an old story about Smith turning up to a UFC event while he was affiliated with a canadian MMA group. I don’t remember the details, but he was talking shit about the promotion and got into it with one of the fighters. I pretty sure Dana has commented on it in the past and said something to the effect that he was shocked and saddend by his actions as they had had a good relationship up until that point. It was only after this that the UFC stopped mentioning him and playing old of clips him.
that's very interesting
I’d love to hear more.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 13, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Can’t find anything to substantiate it I’m afraid.
by caspersghost on Sep 13, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
1-Racism exists, but is overused as an excuse
2-HOFs are greatly watered down. They should be for the very best of the best. Not just a great story, or someone who was great for a very short period of time. That said, personal beefs such as crossing Dana, fighting for another org, or having bad realtionships with the media, should not exclude a guy from any HOF.
by BJJDenver on Sep 13, 2010 12:16 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The only fighter I that is missing from the UFC
HOF is Frank Shamrock imo.
It seems every year, guys like Tank and Tanner get mentioned, and perhaps they do deserve the consideration, but I just don’t think that is what a HOF is for. I agree with Shamrock and I’m sure there are others who may be on the fence. Also, let’s wait until guys are retired please.
I would love to see the UFC do a “Fight for the Troops” type of fundraiser, in the name of Evan Tanner and donate the funds to a mental health charity or something along those lines.
by BJJDenver on Sep 13, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Recd just for the Tanner idea.
He is still my all time favorite fighter. And a charity fight fits well into his image. Dana make it happen!
Agreed.
And I hate Sharpe.
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by Richard Wade on Sep 13, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
That would be true for an mma hall of fame, but not for the UFC Hall of Fame. if they UFC is going to run their own hall of fame, they can use whatever reasons/standards they want to for acknowledging people.
Other people can start an MMA Hall of fame to give a real history of the sport and it’s fighters, the UFC is obviously going to be looking out for their own interestes when they are the people running the show.
If you’re going to put Maurice Smith into the UFC Hall of Fame you have to put in Bas Rutten before him. He also won the UFC heavyweight belt by defeating a powerhouse wrestler and was doing what Maurice Smith was doing, better and before him.
I for one think the Hall of Fame should be left to an outside organization or something like Fighters Only Magazine, so that they can announce new arrivals each year at an awards ceremony and have the focus on all of MMA and not just the UFC.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
Non-story.
(1) McKee has definitely done enough work to warrant a shot in the big leagues, but that doesn’t mean that his non-signing is some gross injustice. The guy is upwards of 40, is notoriously one of the most boring fighters in MMA, and hasn’t beaten anyone of note. The comparison to guys like Fitch and Maynard is unfair to those men. While Fitch and Maynard also consistently go to decisions, they do so against some of the very best in the world, while McKee does it against middling fighters.
(2) Smith no doubt played a large role in the early part of the UFC, but I think it’s clear that his career in MMA and the UFC isn’t nearly as impressive as the current crop of Hall of Famers. Sure, he beat Coleman, a hall of famer, but Coleman was also the first UFC heavyweight champ, a guy who won two UFC one-night tourneys, and won a PRIDE Grand Prix. Despite Smith’s win over Coleman, his career in MMA isn’t nearly as impressive.
by dropkick101 on Sep 13, 2010 12:24 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
yeah, say what you want about what he brought to the table, a guy that has lost more fights than he has won, doesn’t deserve to be in a Hall of Fame.
You gotta pay the troll toll, to get into this boy's soul.
by WestbergIDFC on Sep 13, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
most of Smith's losses were NOT in MMA
they were in submission wrestling events lke Pancrase and RINGS that didn’t have anything close to MMA (or at the time NHB) rules.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 13, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Assuming that as a valid line of reasoning just for argument’s sake, the fact is still that his peak in MMA included wins over Coleman, Tank, and Marco Ruas, and losses to Randy and Randleman. While nobody can argue that some of those fights were HUGE at the time, I’m not sold that that is a Hall of Fame-worthy record of accomplisment.
by dropkick101 on Sep 13, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
the reason Mo is important
is because he was the first top flight kickboxer to come into MMA and he beat top BJJ guys and wrestlers and changed the sport forever for the better.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 13, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Meh. That was definitely important, but again, I don’t think HOF-worthy. Does that mean Machida should get in the HOF for applying Karate to MMA like no one before? Or Karo for judo? Or Leben for foot stomps? I know my examples might not be the best, but the point is this: simply applying a different form of martial arts successfully to MMA is a notable accomplishment, but it’s what you actually achieve with that application that should determine your overall impact on the sport, and therefore your worthiness of being in a HOF.
by dropkick101 on Sep 13, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
it wasn't just another martial art
it was a whole dimension of martial arts that up to that point hadn’t been represented in MMA. before Cro Cop, before Chuck Liddell, before Jens Pulver,
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But being the 1st guy willing to cash a paycheck
should get him HoF consideration? I am on the fence about this. Frank is the only guy who is a GLARING omission. I could argue both for and against Pat. If you took Pat as a fighter and trainer I would want him in.
first striker to beat top level grapplers in modern MMA
that’s a big deal
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There's a first for everything...
Doesn’t mean that first needs to be in a Hall of Fame.
You gotta pay the troll toll, to get into this boy's soul.
by WestbergIDFC on Sep 13, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, but the idea is that it’s not big ENOUGH to warrant HOF inclusion. Can you actually argue that Smith had a more impressive career than Liddell, Couture, Hughes, Royce, Coleman, or any of the other current HOFers? Or that he had a more impressive career than any of the guaranteed future HOFers like GSP, Silva, Tito, or BJ? I don’t think so.
It should be recognized as a pivotal moment in the evolution of MMA in the US
Does his career as a fighter makes him deserve to be in the HOF, that I don’t think so
That fight alone should put him in the HOF
The strategy he employed in that fight changed the sport. He opened peoples eyes to the idea that it didn’t have to be a grappling-centric sport and he was a pre-cursor to the first wave of cross trained fighters to come into the sport.
Mo Smith’s victory over Coleman is easily one of the most important (not greatest, important, the distinction matters) moments in the history of the sport.
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By that logic, Forrest and Bonnar are getting in too. Important moments should be remembered and recognized in the HOF, absolutely. Do you put a fighter into the HOF just for one moment, no.
Exactly.
But I will point out that I think Forrest will ultimately be inducted, solely off of his accomplishments up to this point. Check it out: first TUF winner, won the fight against Bonnar that kickstarted the modern UFC, beat Shogun Rua in one of the biggest upsets ever, outpointed Rampage to win the UFC belt, and just beat former champ and future HOFer Tito Ortiz.
It’s arguable, but I think those are some HOF accomplishments.
Why is all the hate focused on UFC
Strikeforce has a good LW division that could definitely use another high level challenger. In my opinion Strikeforce is a much better fit for McKee. They would probably be willing to give him fights leading up to a title shot, whereas in the UFC I can only see him being used as a gatekeeper to test new fighters.
by IWillPartyHard on Sep 13, 2010 12:38 PM EDT reply actions
It’s hard to kill the UFC for McKee not being there when we don’t know what or how negotiations have gone. Same goes for all the other big orgs out there. Publicly he talks as though he is equal or greater than BJ Penn, so he could be asking for more money than people are willing to pay.
it would be silly if SF or the UFC flat out said, “get lost, we don’t want you,” but you can never tell what goes on in negotiations
I'm just speaking as a fan
who’d like to see him get his shot.
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by Nate Wilcox on Sep 13, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't mind the idea of him getting a shot, but I think it is unlikely...
On another note, how come McKee has never (that I can recall) sniffed the top 25 of the consensus rankings. Sounds to me like a number of your colleagues don’t think a ton of him.
Creating more some public awareness would be the first big step towards him being signed.
This v
I loved this perspective…
I watched Rampage [Quinton Jackson] knock out Chuck Liddell and we got bottles thrown at us and we got booed. I watched Rampage lose to Forrest Griffin, who comes from The Ultimate Fighter show where there’s a lot of sponsorship and marketing going on, in a decision he shouldn’t have lost and should have had a rematch. But instead I watched Shogun [Mauricio Rua] kick the [expletive] out of [Lyoto] Machida, and because it wasn’t a fair decision, I watched them come back and do a rematch. I watched B.J. Penn get beat by a guy [Frankie Edgar]. They didn’t like that so they brought him back and he got his ass kicked again.
… As I’ve asked myself the same question repeatedly on this blog.
I’m not saying that this is racist and I don’t believe that’s where McKee is coming from. I think that he is passionate about this idea of favoritism or patronage in the UFC because the “network” does not exist for fighters/promoters of color.
I understand that this is a business, but perhaps there aren’t enough promoters advocatiing for top fights with black fighters.
Just a thought… (Don’t crucify me)
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
Who did Griffin fight in his first title defense?
Oh right, Rashad Evans, a black guy. Clearly Rampage not getting an immediate rematch was racially motivated.
by IWillPartyHard on Sep 13, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, the UFC definitely hates black guys
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton
by donkeypunch on Sep 13, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I was sure this type of passive aggressiveness would come up.
I wasn’t saying that.
What I was saying is that the network that exists for fighters of color does not exist. Zuffa is all about making money— I get that. But there are networks that are built outside of the board room and those relationships are a bit biased depending on one’s background/culture.
My thought is that although there are a few examples of Zuffa promoting fighters/fights that feature fighters of color— there aren’t as easy as the ones that are for fighters of similar backgrounds and lifestyles.
Semper Fi
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by ChicagoMarine on Sep 13, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
thats ridiculous the ufc promotes the dudes who earn the title of super star equally and do tons of things for the fighter
also rampage didnt get a rematch because i dont know …he ran down a pregant women and then had a high speed chase with the cops
like 3 weeks after he lost the title
not exactly paving the way to get a rematch when dana has to do damage control on your pr
by Richard Doughty on Sep 13, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
The other "instant rematch" fighters got their "shots" within a couple days
Dana knew that he wasn’t going to give Page that shot. He was saving that for Liddell.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand the money aspect, RD
What I am saying is that the fact that Rampage did not get an immediate rematch as other have said is puzzling after a controversial decision. The fact neither he— nor his promotion— have any relationships within Zuffa to the extent that it would keep him reverent like an aged Chuck Lidell is what I’m referring to.
There is a bit of politics to the fight cards and it helps to have good standing with Zuffa, wouldn’t you agree? That being said, name a black fighter that is “Dana’s boy”?
(Just a thought… not inciting a riot))
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 13, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
$$$$$$$$$$
%
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
We must define racism
differently. If there was actual racism Zuffa wouldn’t be putting Rashad/Rampage on TV.
The UFC is not racist, anyone who makes that argument is a fucking fool
Is there racism within the organization? Could be. Is there prejudtces? Of course. But the UFC is NOT a racist organization.
That said. A real bigot would use those that he hates to make money. A misogynist will promote a woman if she makes him money. I say that to say simply putting and promoting Rashad/Rampage is not an example of “non-racism”. It’s “Good business”.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
So they can be
racists but in no way can their action be labeled as non racist? Did I get that correct?
What?
All I did was say that a) the UFC is not racist and b) promoting “Rashad vs Rampage” is not an indication of “non-racism” due to the fact it made them a boatload of money.
There have been notorious racist coaches, NFL and NBA owners that still hired minorites. Marge Schott anyone? She promoted the fuck out of Barry larkin and paid Eric Davis millions while calling him a “million dollar nigger”.
Again, the UFC is NOT racist, but promoting two Black men who make you money is not an indicator of “non-racism”.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
That is why I think we define racism different. A true racist wouldn’t stand for that minority. I had a Pakistani working for me, when I had a qualified applicant who was Indian, the shit hit the fan. My current employee said he would quit and the applicant said he would refuse the job. That to me is racism.
A true AMERICAN racist would
Capitalism trumps racism
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually had my assistant by the phone to call the police when things started to go bad. It was surreal.
Man the Pakistani/Indian shit makes Whites/Blacks circa 1960 look like Tiddlywinks
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven’t seen Pakistani/Indian, but where I work for some reason I see Cubans and Mexicans doing similar. They do not get along at all and I’ve heard things come out of their mouths that had me at a loss for words.
The worst thing was when a new guy mistook a older Cuban for a Mexican and asked him where he in Mexico he was from. Afterwards I was just happy that Carlos didn’t actually physically attack him as the verbal assault was deadly by itself.
by Empty Thoughts on Sep 13, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep. The Mexicans are the Blacks of the Hispanic totem pole
Puerto Ricans don’t like them either. I dunno why.
I just call everyone “Hispanic” so I don’t get cut.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I see your Mexicans and I raise you Nicaraguans, as well as Hondurans.
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 13, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea yea, I was tryna keep it NA
Once you include Central, it gets messy.
General rule of thumb is the lighter the skin, the higher up you are.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
History shows that the Irish were the "n*ggers" of the White race
and after them the Italians. They were later accepted into the fold. There are theories about that, not gonna go into them here.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Ummmm... Thanks?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
What are you thanking me for?
We’re having a discussion on historical racism.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Hint: I'm not Italian!
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Yeah I was throwing it in there for the hell of it. Being both is an interesting experience sometimes.
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 13, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn’t saying that.
What I was saying is that the network that exists for fighters of color does not exist. Zuffa is all about making money— I get that. But there are networks that are built outside of the board room and those relationships are a bit biased depending on one’s background/culture. The “board room” is no the only place buisness is conducted.
My thought is that although there are a few examples of Zuffa promoting fighters/fights that feature fighters of color— there aren’t as easy as the ones that are for fighters of similar backgrounds and lifestyles.
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 13, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Number one, he was supposed to fight Chuck, but Rashad knocked him out
Number two, your point of who he fought and ChicagoMarine’s point have nothing to do with each other
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Supposed to fight Chuck or supposed to fight the winner of Liddell / Evans?
That sounds like an odd conspiracy theory to me.
When did you start watching the UFC?
Forrest was supposed to fight Chuck when Chuck beat Evans.
If someone Evans would’ve won in boring fashion, he wouldn’t have gotten the shot.
Since he knocked out Chuck he had to get the shot.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Again... (shaking my head at the passive agressive response)
I wasn’t saying that.
With all due respect, what I was saying is that the network that exists for fighters of color does not exist. Zuffa is all about making money— I get that. But there are networks that are built outside of the board room and those relationships are a bit biased depending on one’s background/culture.
My thought is that although there are a few examples of Zuffa promoting fighters/fights that feature fighters of color— there aren’t as easy as the ones that are for fighters of similar backgrounds and lifestyles.
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 13, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It would probably help to try re-phrasing difficult to interpret questions rather than simply copy and pasting the same basic comment, then getting frustrated when no one (including me) can discern what you are actually trying to ask.
“what I was saying is that the network that exists for fighters of color does not exist.”
Maybe its just that the wording of the statement makes no sense to me, but why should or would there be a “network” for fighters of color?
“But there are networks that are built outside of the board room and those relationships are a bit biased depending on one’s background/culture.”
Relevance? Again, I guess I’m not understanding what you are trying say, because this makes no practical sense to me…
“My thought is that although there are a few examples of Zuffa promoting fighters/fights that feature fighters of color— there aren’t as easy as the ones that are for fighters of similar backgrounds and lifestyles.”
Why?!? Why would Zuffa ever do that? They don’t even try to overtly pick up on angles like the US vs. Brazil that the could have recently…NO good for Zuffa would come from trying what I think you are saying…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Sep 13, 2010 5:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
With all due respect for your response...
I restated it several times because I came back to the thread a bit after it had snowballed, so there were several convos going.
TO YOUR REPLY…
I think securing a fight not only has a lot to do with one’s popularity, but it also has a lot to do with the relationship the fighter has with Zuffa. I believe there is a bit of politics that go on that the average fan is not privy’d to. Nor, should they assume goes on behind closed doors. Those things do not always happen at the business table, but they also happen outside of the board room.
I believe some fighters (i.e.— Chuck Lidell) have a better relationship with management and that benefits their ability to secure relevant and favorable matchups.
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 13, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
As per your rematch argument
Bj Penn isn’t white.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Sep 13, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
But they aren't black
just saying
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, you are really really adamant about your “UFC is racist against black fighters” theory aren’t you? Not only based on this comment, based on your comments all throughout this post.
by IWillPartyHard on Sep 13, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I have never said the UFC is racist against Black fighters or anything of the sort
For you to accuse me of such shit is atrocious. Find me a quote. Find me ONE fucking quote where I have said the UFC is racist. Otherwise you’re talking out your ass.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Saying that Shogun or Machida isn't Black is saying the UFC is racist?
Wow you people are so fucking sensitive. Hahahaha. That’s why I hate discussing race because anything you say is magnified to the 100th degree.
They aren’t Black and therefore don’t go against what McKee was saying. He even acknowledged them in the interview.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you get dizzy talking in circles like this...
People were denying that racism was a factor by stating that Penn and Shogun got rematches despite not being white.
You said:
But they aren’t black
just saying
thus implying that they wouldn’t have gotten rematches if they were black and that the UFC was racist against black fighters.
This is a stupid argument though how about we drop it.
No I didn't imply SHIT, I stated a fact. They aren't black
That’s a fact. There’s no implying. I don’t “imply”. You should know this by now, if i have a point to make, I’ll make it.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
They also aren’t women.
And they aren’t jaguars.
And they aren’t midgets.
And they aren’t apple trees.
At the aren’t…….
If you weren’t implying anything than what was your point?
"If the commission would sanction it and Dana would move, I’d fighter Anderson right now."
- Chael Sonnen at the post fight press conference following his loss to Anderson Silva.
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McKee specifically mentioned "Black"
Therefore bringing them up is irrelevant because they aren’t that.
Hence me saying “They aren’t Black”.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
shogun is white as fuck
Speaking Portuguese ( a European language ) doesn’t make your skin dark. It makes you Brazilian.
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by the-gentle-way on Sep 13, 2010 8:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
:D
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
nor is anderson , if the ufc were raciest wouldnt it be easy to just promote GSP as the p4p king instead of anderson , like in the recent fan expo interview dana did
by Richard Doughty on Sep 13, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
No.
Because if you took that title away from either of them, St. Pierre remains a much larger draw.
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 13, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
This is revisionist history. Last time I checked, Shogun and Penn did not get arrested for going on an “energy drink” fueled vehicular rampage after losing their extremely close title fights. Seriously, how the fuck do you bring up Rampage not getting an immediate rematch and not mention the whole arrest thing? After it happened, people were shitting all over the UFC for showing favoritism towards Rampage for not cutting him like what would have happened to other fighters. Now it’s an example of the UFC not treating Rampage right?
by Jahbulon on Sep 13, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Last time I check, Dana said "instant rematch" that night for both fighters
I doubt Rampage gets into that trouble with an instant rematch.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana never said “instant rematch” to BJ. He didn’t drive his truck into a bunch of crazy shit. Trying to use Dana’s words (or lack thereof) as an excuse for what Rampage did is ridiculous.
http://www.instrength.com
Dana said instant rematch to Shogun
Dana offered BJ the rematch to Edgar on April 13th. They fought on April 10th.
I’m not using it as an “excuse”. I’m saying Rampage doesn’t do what he did if he gets an instant rematch so you can’t use that in hindsight as an argument against one.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Rampage doesn’t do what he did if he gets an instant rematch
So Page went nutso and it is Dana’s fault?
No. You have reading comprehension problems
July 5th, 2008 – Rampage loses
July 15th, 2008 – Rampage loses…his mind
If Dana tells Rampage he gets an instant rematch like he did to Shogun (that night at the PC) or BJ (3 days later), do you think Rampage is so angry he does what he did? I highly doubt it.
And no, it’s no one’s fault but that crazy fool Rampage’s.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
You have logic comprehension problems.
If Dana tells Rampage he gets an instant rematch like he did to Shogun (that night at the PC) or BJ (3 days later), do you think Rampage is so angry he does what he did?
You are clearly implying a causal relationship between Dana (not offering a rematch) and Rampage going nuts.
No, I'm clearly implying that you cannot, in hindsight, use that incident as a justification for no rematch
. Last time I checked, Shogun and Penn did not get arrested for going on an "energy drink" fueled vehicular rampage after losing their extremely close title fights. Seriously, how the fuck do you bring up Rampage not getting an immediate rematch and not mention the whole arrest thing?
Explain to me how him going crazy over a week after the fight was a justification for him not getting an immediate rematch.
Now do you understand?
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s still a BS argument. And different from the one you were making, which is goalpost moving. Because Dana didn’t make a decision about an automatic rematch within 10 days, that means the truck crashing didn’t play into his line of reasoning when it came to making a decision? Using 2 other immediate rematch offers AFTER that fight is your justification for thinking that?
No way.
http://www.instrength.com
No that's not what I'm saying
my point has NOTHING to do with Dana’s “line of reasoning”. If Dana was going to give him an immediate rematch, he would’ve done so like he did was Penn and Shogun. He wasn’t going to. He had plans for Chuck to fight Forrest. Everyone knew it. All Chuck had to do would be to beat Rashad.
My point is you can’t use that incident to justify why Rampage didn’t deserve the rematch. I’m talking about US discussing it, not Dana White. But like I said, Dana White had no plans on it anyway. That shot was Chuck’s.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Why did he have to give it right away? Was Silva/Sonnen decided right away? No. This is you taking 2 instances of Dana’s actions and trying to form a pattern to make your point. The problem is that there is no rhyme or reason to what Dana White does. You’re guessing at what White wanted. That’s it.
http://www.instrength.com
In Silva/Sonnen, the champ decivesly finished
BJ/Edgar = champ lost it was CLOSE
Machida/Shogun = a ridiculously BS decision
Rampage/Griffin = champ lost it was CLOSE
Dana was talking Silva/Sonnen II a couple days after the fight. Hell, mighht have been at the presser.
As for what Dana wanted, it was obvious Chuck was getting that shot next. Everyone knew it.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
What? You’re using a “what if” scenario to defend Rampage. That’s ridiculous. The facts are the facts.
http://www.instrength.com
C'mon be real.
If Dana tells Rampage he gets an instant rematch, Rampage isn’t going to go crazy. He went nutso because he lost his belt. If he gets a title shot right back, he’s 88% not gonna go fuck it up.
You can’t use that incident as a reason why an instant rematch wasn’t warranted.
And no, I’m not excusing shit that crazy dude did.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
If…if…if. So stupid. 88%? I’m being real. You’re making shit up out of thin air to make your point.
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by Tim Burke on Sep 13, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This post
makes 88% more sense than the one above it.
by IWillPartyHard on Sep 13, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
No, how can you use that incident to justify not giving Rampage a rematch?
Common sense tells you he’s not gonna go out and fuck up like that when he has a title shot ESPECIALLY because the reason he got so fucked up mentally was because he lost/wouldn’t get a shot at the belt.
And he ’s crazy.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Why the fuck am I on the Rampage side?
How did this happen?
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re arguing 2 different points, and they’re both wrong.
1. If Dana give him the immediate rematch, he doesn’t crash his truck.
2. Rampage crashing his truck didn’t affect Dana’s decision on a rematch.
Both are utterly ridiculous.
http://www.instrength.com
No I'm not,
I’m arguing number 1, not number 2.
And number 1 isn’t ridiculous. If he’s so distraught over losing his title that ten days later he goes crazy, why would he still go crazy knowing he has a rematch?
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
This is you arguing # 2 -
Explain to me how him going crazy over a week after the fight was a justification for him not getting an immediate rematch.
Number 1 is ridiculous because it’s not up to Dana White to announce an immediate rematch right away. You use 2 examples, but there are numerous times where it was decided later on down the road. Again, it’s a “what if”. What if arguments are completely baseless.
http://www.instrength.com
I'm not talking about Dana
I’m talking about US. In the comments’ section. Not Dana. I never mentioned Dana.
Where are the numerous examples of an instant rematch decided “down the road”? Silva/Sonnen was talked about within days. There was no Rampage/Forrest chatter. What other “instant rematches” have there been in the last 2 or 3 years?
The answer…none.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
You mentioned Dana in terms of granting immediate rematches to Penn and Shogun, so you absolutely mentioned him. You’re drawing a parallel between him granting those shots immediately and him not granting Rampage one. You argue in circles.
There was Rampage/Forrest chatter. Come on. You know there was. Dana talked about it at the post-fight press conference.
http://www.instrength.com
I mentioned him because he is the one who grants rematches
If you followed the vein of conversation, I was clearly responded within the context of someone up thread saying Rampage went crazy and didn’t deserve a rematch.
As for the presser, there was a smatter of chatter, but nothing like Penn/Edgar or Shogun/Machida. Nothing strong at all. No strong verbiage from Dana.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
So you went from not mentioning him, to mentioning him because he grants rematches. WHICH IS WHAT YOU WERE ARGUING IN TERMS OF RAMPAGE. Like I said, you argue in circles.
There wasn’t “strong verbiage” about Sonnen/Silva either. You put emphasis on the finish to make your point. Fine. It’s still an example of someone that obviously deserves a rematch. And got it…a few weeks later.
And see? Now you’re back to arguing point # 2, when you said above that you weren’t arguing point # 2 at all.
I’m just going to stop, because you’re going in 2 different directions, arguing that you’re doing neither, and being essentially wrong on both points.
http://www.instrength.com
Nope nope
I’m still talking as fans discussing. Dana only comes into the picture as he is the grantor of rematches. We are discussing US as fans having a discussion. A fan brought up the road rage as a reason why Rampage didn’t deserve a rematch.
I can tell you’re having a hard time following this, so rather than making a long post showing exactly how we got to this point, I’ll just tip my hat.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
If Dana tells Rampage he gets an instant rematch, Rampage isn’t going to go crazy
Your words, not mine.
Good discussion though.
http://www.instrength.com
And how is that
2. Rampage crashing his truck didn’t affect Dana’s decision on a rematch.
Like I said, I was arguing number 1
1. If Dana give him the immediate rematch, he doesn’t crash his truck.
Not number 2.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Because then you switch to:
Explain to me how him going crazy over a week after the fight was a justification for him not getting an immediate rematch.
You’ve alternated between both.
http://www.instrength.com
That's me TALKING ABOUT US
THE FANS.
Not Dana.
US.
The fans.
Because a FAN said this:
Last time I checked, Shogun and Penn did not get arrested for going on an "energy drink" fueled vehicular rampage after losing their extremely close title fights. Seriously, how the fuck do you bring up Rampage not getting an immediate rematch and not mention the whole arrest thing?
A FAN brought up the arrest as a reason why he didn’t deserve the rematch. I’m asking how can he bring that up as a justification in hindsight.
Do you understand now?
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
so are you saying the ufc likes Asians , Brazilian , and Latinos but not blacks ?
really
by Richard Doughty on Sep 13, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Tito Ortiz deserves being in the HOF over Mo Smith
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by TDITZ on Sep 13, 2010 12:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't buy the "he hasn't beaten anyone" point of view
If you want him to beat someone of note, let him fight someone who many people think has name value and great athletic ability. Most of those guys are in the UFC. I’m not saying he will destroy everyone in his path, but if he isn’t given the chance why say he’s not good enough to be in the big leagues?
Point 1, his record) McKee has 2 good wins out of 25 in his entire career, Toby Imada and Marcus Aurelio. He’s faced very low caliber opponents and has not been able to finish them for the vast majority of his time spent in the cage/ring. Just briefly clicking on the names of people he’s fought and you see records like 5-4-2, 19-10, 12-12, 23-23-2, 13-13, 7-7, 13-15-1. These are career minor leaguers and he is not of the caliber that he can dominate them to the point where he can take it out of the hands of the judges. There have been tons of fighters outside of the UFC that he could have fought in his career to make a bigger name.
Point 2, the UFC) Unless I’m remembering wrong, the UFC offered him a contract once and he turned it down. Either the $ wasn’t up to snuff, or the story I recall is that he wasn’t getting an immediate title shot. Either way he has way too high of an opinion of himself. If, and again, we don’t really know all the details from both sides of the negotiations, if any of that is accurate, then McKee has no one to blame but himself.
Point 3, Rampage/Griffin and other accusations of racism) Page lost a close fight, but nowhere on the level of Shogun/Machida. Did he get an immediate rematch? No, but he got one tune-up fight against Jardine (which he almost lost) and then was offered the shot at the belt. He had to turn it down to get surgery on his face. After that, he was promptly booked on TUF against another black fighter, Evans, which raised both of their profiles tremendously, made them both a lot of money and got them to headline a PPV that had the best buyrates either man ever had. Racism in the UFC is questionable at best considering things like Page/Suge on TUF, the person White touts as the best fighter on the planet, Anderson Silva is a black man from Brazil and the number one prospect, Bones Jones is also black. Give me a break.
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by Cory Braiterman on Sep 13, 2010 12:54 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Never heard him offered a title shot
And actually, Griffin/Rampage was very close. And he had TWO fights after that before he was offered a shot at the belt 6 weeks after UFC 96.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
thats what i said
they didn’t offer him the title shot he wanted. And yes, got my timeline confused on Page, he got offered the shot after 96, which was his 2nd fight. He did get to avenge his loss to Wand, though, which he’d said he wanted to do for a while.
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by Cory Braiterman on Sep 13, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
No I'm saying I've never heard anything about him being upset he didn't get a title shot (i'm talking about mcKee)
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
i dunno if he was upset or not, it was apparently a dealbreaker tho
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by Cory Braiterman on Sep 13, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
rampage didn't get an immediate rematch because...
he’s black?
or is it because a few days after he lost he fasted on nothing but energy drinks, went crazy, and got arrested at gunpoint? might that have something to do with it?
i like antonio mckee, i really do. but there are some serious gaps in his logic on some of this stuff.
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The UFC loves Rampage.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
He's not saying the UFC is racist against all Black fighters
he’s said that 172897482427 times
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
he insinuated that rampage didn’t get an immediate rematch because of his race.
and if you remember, the other night in the MFC thread, i was one of the only other people besides you sticking up for mckee, before the fight started. so it’s not like i’m some kind of mckee hater.
but when it comes to these comments he’s made, there are some problems with what he’s saying.
www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology
I agree. He's making some silly comments especially considering he wants to be hired by them.
I’m not going to call, say Apple racist and then also want a job.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
maurice smith should not be in the UFC hall of fame
sure he won the belt, and defended it once (against tank abbot too…) but should every UFC champ ever be inducted into the hall of fame? he had one huge upset win then a title defense against a lackluster opponent before losing his belt (ive heard the randy decision was controversial)
i simply think that career isnt even close to being hall of fame worthy, not every champ from the UFCs beginning should be a hall of famer
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
by milk72 on Sep 13, 2010 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
not every champ from the UFCs beginning should be a hall of famer
This.
The less people their is in it, the better it is.
I don’t want to have every UFC champion inductee in the HoF when they retire.
Severn would be the weakest I would think
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Same I have
Frank over Severn but he was a big super fight guy who brought 45 minutes Fitch matches to the UFC. He did beat Oleg, Shamrock and Tank back when it mattered.
no one yet (maybe severn if I m being extremist)
But I fear it will happen.
im gonna object when forrest makes it
he falls into the hall of very good, not the hall of fame
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
Uh Oh
The R word.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Restling?
4 years, 4 coaches, 7 league road wins, 0 playoff games, 1 GM. Fire Mo Johnston.
by SSreporters on Sep 13, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
the problem is
before McKee’s record got really impressive, so that it was impossible to ignore despite his boring style, he was already super old.
Having said that, the UFC should immediately sign him. Why the hell not? I think he’s actually a marketable guy as “the old dude finally getting his chance.”
Bottom line is he’s earned his shot. People should get what they earn – it’s what distinguishes "sports’ from “sports entertainment.”
Ummm...
“It’s time for Antonio McKee to get his shot at the big time”
He’s the wrong side of 40, has a completely unmarketable style and – from Dana’s perspective – spends his interviews being a troublemaker. Don’t count on ever seeing him in the Octagon.
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Sounds like James Toney
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
James Toney was a world champion boxer, and the thought was that he would sell PPV’s (he did not). McKee is nothing.
http://www.instrength.com
McKee has more and better MMA fights
And would be 1/50th the price.
And would bring in just as many buys. (Toney brought none).
James Toney 0-0, 500K base + PPV points
Antonio McKee, undefeated in 7 years, 15K/15K + no PPV
How the fuck do you say no? This ain’t no sport.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Name recognition of James Toney – high
Chance of drawing boxing audience to the UFC – possible
Chance of drawing extra PPV buys – expected
Name recognition of Antonio McKee – none
Chance of McKee attracting ANY audience – none
Chance of McKee attracting PPV buys – none
You say no because he is a 40 year old nobody who hasn’t beat anyone in his entire career. That’s how.
http://www.instrength.com
by Tim Burke on Sep 13, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This.
If you think that Toney and McKee bring the same thing to the UFC you don’t understand business. The UFC is in the BUSINESS of putting on mma fights.
No shit I know the "business", I was an advocate of Toney before the fight
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
My point is, if you RISK a lot of money and credibility on Toney
why can’t you risk a MUCH MUCH smaller amount of money and NO credibility on McKee?
Put him in against someone on a prelim. He wins, put him on another prelim. He loses, cut him.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Because he’s not worth the money or the time. He’s 40. He’s boring. He hasn’t beaten anyone of note. The UFC doesn’t need him.
http://www.instrength.com
The UFC doesn't need ANYONE
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, they don’t NEED anyone. I’ll give you that. How about this: “There’s zero incentive in giving Antonio McKee a UFC fight”.
http://www.instrength.com
There's zero incentive in giving Gabe Rudiger a fight
…Rodney Wallace a fight
…Mario Miranda a fight
…Dave Branch a fight
…etc
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
They’re not 40, running their mouths about racism, and actually finish fights.
http://www.instrength.com
Age doesn't matter honestly
Look at the man, does he look 40? He doesn’t take any damage, so he’s not wartorn.
The mouth thing I agree, then again, it seems like running your mouth gets you into the UFC rather than skill.
Finishing fights doesn’t mean shit IMO.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Age matters when it takes a long time in a deep division to get a title shot. He’d have to win 5+ fights to get that shot, and that’s if he finished everyone. He’s 42, close to 43 by then.
As for finishing, Dana’s said a million times that exciting fights matter.
http://www.instrength.com
Why does every fighter have to be a title contender?
Maybe he just gets a couple big fights and gets paydays.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
What’s the purpose of debuting a fighter…just to fight? The entire point is to win fights to get a title fight to become a champion. Why pay a guy, who’s not even exciting and isn’t a draw at all, to just fight for a payday?
http://www.instrength.com
Not everyone is there to fight for a title
You bring him in and maybe someone gets a win over him. They’ve just beaten a guy who was undefeated for 7 years. He’s a great talker, he can talk up interest in the kinda stale LW division. It’ doesn’t have to take Mckee many wins to get a LW title shot. Big Country beat a couple people before he was in a N1CM.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Would be hilarious
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
He'd win
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
he wouldnt take it though
he could of tried out for this season
but he didnt
by Richard Doughty on Sep 13, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Fighting for fame, glory, or money are all done best fighting for the titile. How happy is Frankie Edgar’s LLP?
Mothers know nothing about creeping marauders burrowing through the snow toward the kitchen where only you and you alone stand between your tiny, huddled family and insensate evil.
by Barack Lesnar on Sep 13, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah!
“Finishing fights doesn’t mean shit IMO.”
That’s why you and I are the only viewers for Spike’s “UFC: Ultimate Decisions”!
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
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is that a joke sc? if this was pride scoring thats all that matters
and frankly thats how ufc judging should be changed to
its sport fighting , not point sparring
you shouldnt get points for controlling someone over damage
the point should be to end the fight and if you cant end it most damage caused and finishing attempt should be highest on the list
pulling a nick lentz and holding someone against a cage is not fighting
its avoiding the fight
i like wrestling but it should be used to finish not pass time
ie , jone jones greco throws breaking shoulders , passing guard setting up curfix and elbows
or matt hughes double leg/slams to submissions
by Richard Doughty on Sep 13, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
SC?
My name’s Jemal.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
If Mckee had his
run in Dream/Bella/Strikeforce or any other promotion and was 5 years young I would agree.
Then like he said, why wasn't he looked at back in 2005?
He was an excellent wrestler and athlete with a great record. With his wrestling pedigree, the UFC should’ve given him a look.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably because he wasn’t fighting then. He took 15 months off after the Camacho fight.
http://www.instrength.com
He took the time off for lack of money
Plus I picked an arbitrary date. Make it 2007 then.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Signed with the IFL instead. Coming of a split decision win over Ronald Jhun. Is it a big surprise that the UFC wouldn’t give him a look? There was no point in his career until MAYBE after his IFL run that he even deserved a look.
http://www.instrength.com
I'm talking after the IFL screwed him in late 2007
when the LW division was starting to jump off.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe he was looked at
and considered to big a PR risk. Maybe they offered him a contract but he wanted to much money. Maybe the offered him a spot on TUF and he turned it down. 5 years ago he was 4-1-1 losing to Karo. Maybe the 18 month layoff had something to do with it.
Why doesn't
Strikeforce, Dream, or Bellator give McKee a chance? They all have a long history of signing good fighters that the UFC isn’t interested in for whatever reason.
This complete and utter lack of interest in McKee from the top 4 orgs makes it seem to me that the problem is McKee and not the UFC.
by IWillPartyHard on Sep 13, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
His point is that the UFC is the best, how does the best org not have a guy who hasn't lost in 7 years?
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
why dont they have fedor , gagard , overeem , king mo , tyrone woodly , aoki, alverz , bibanno , jacare ….ect
there are plenty of fighters beating much better dudes then mckee but they have various reasons why they dont get in
mckee isnt even asking to be in the ufc
he’s not pullin a james tony
he’s just randomly calling out ufc fighters
by Richard Doughty on Sep 13, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Those fighters chose not to sign
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
He still isn't even ranked top 25
Because his resume still isn’t impressive. And its not organizational bias, the rankings have fighters from UFC, WEC, Bellator, Strikeforce, Dream, and WVR. There are MFC fighters ranked at Middleweight. These rankings aren’t made by the UFC.
by IWillPartyHard on Sep 13, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Gabe Rudiger was ranked what?
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
#1
in ice cream cake giving.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Gabe was brought in on short notice
Because he was available, cheap, and some fans remember him from TUF. McKee has none of those things going for him. Like McKee he was on a solid win streak, unlike McKee he hasn’t been bad mouthing the UFC for years. I’m sure if McKee was willing to fill in for someone injured on short notice for 8/8 he would have fought in the UFC already.
by IWillPartyHard on Sep 13, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't bring in McKee on short notice?
You bring in a fighter who was an absolute JOKE and embarrassed the sport?
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Read harder
I said if McKee was willing to fight on short notice for 8/8 he probably would have been in the UFC already.
He has to have absurd money demands if none of the major to quasi-major orgs have wanted to give him a shot.
by IWillPartyHard on Sep 13, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he wants at least what he makes in MFC
Which is more than 8/8
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
And he’s not worth that to the UFC, so he probably won’t get it. This isn’t a complicated situation.
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by Richard Wade on Sep 13, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Wha wha wee wha!
He’s not worth 8k? Damn.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
if you really think that Toney brought in 0 buys
you’re delusional
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Sep 13, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
18 of McKee's 25 wins were by decision
Yeah, it’s about your color. If boring is a color.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Sep 13, 2010 1:14 PM EDT reply actions
If a fight going to decision is one of the deciding factors....
then Frankie Edgar shouldn’t be the UFC lightweight champion.
Nor should Gray Maynard be the number 1 contender….
See how that works?
It’s about getting into the UFC. Edgar finished 3 out of 5 fights and beat Jim Miller and Deividas Taurosevicius to get into the UFC. McKee’s never beaten anyone near that level.
http://www.instrength.com
But isn't Mark Hunt coming back to the UFC?
When’s the last time he’s ever beaten anyone of “UFC caliber?”
I understand what your saying but there seems to be an exception to every rule
He was owed a fight from a previous contract
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Pre-UFC, 2 of Edgar’s 5 wins were decisions. That’s much better than 18 of 25.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Sep 13, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
In the coming years, there will be quite a few name fighters who will not get into UFC HOF – Fedor and Sakuraba, for starters – which will further devalue the UFC HOF. In a decade or two, it might be only a bit more credible than the WWE HOF.
Don't like wrestling in MMA? Go watch K-1.
Can't deal with the occasional boring fight? Let me introduce you to ROH.
Dear Mr. White - would it kill you to drop a few f-bombs less?
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Sep 13, 2010 1:33 PM EDT reply actions
Pretty hard to have as much credibility as a HOF for a scripted sport.
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
Actually, it isn't
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I was referring to the fact that the WWE HOF will never be anywhere near credible or comprehensive – simply because there is no way those who have angered the almighty Vince McMahon will ever get in. Randy Savage, for example, should be a first ballot member (based on his achievements) but will never get in. Neither will an icon like Sting – simply because he has never worked for WWE.
Don't like wrestling in MMA? Go watch K-1.
Can't deal with the occasional boring fight? Let me introduce you to ROH.
Dear Mr. White - would it kill you to drop a few f-bombs less?
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Sep 13, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
That has nothing to do with the fact that it is scripted and everything to do with the fact that it is run by the WWE.
Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and tech journalists will all have different books about the history of computer technology.
The Pro Football Hall of fame is different from the College football hall of fame which would be different from an NFL hall of fame.
Expecting the WWE, UFC, or any hall of fame that’s run by a company that isn’t a museum to be impartial is dumb.
Back in my day, baseball plays drank themselves silly, smoked five packs a day, and took enough pain pills to kill a small elephant!
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
This, they (sports writers)
have no problem with Hammerin Hank and his admission to using Peds, can’t keep the others out.
Hell, I was just kidding.
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
this is why the fight! magazine HOF is better
by Richard Doughty on Sep 13, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
It's the UFC Hall of Fame
Not the MMA Hall of Fame, and they’ve never called themselves the MMA Hall of Fame.
If Fedor retired tomorrow he will have exactly ZERO fights in the UFC. Sakuraba made his name and legend in PRIDE not the UFC.
There are a lot of valid criticisms to lay on the UFC Hall of Fame, not inducting fighters who didn’t fight in the UFC or didn’t establish their legend in the UFC isn’t one of them.
This idea the the UFC Hall of Fame should function as the de facto hall of fame for the sport was something created by certain segments of the media and fans, not by the UFC. They created it to honor fighters for their accomplishments in the UFC and I don’t see how you can criticize them if they never induct Fedor, a fighter unlikely to ever fight in the organization which the Hall of Fame in question represents.
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Seriously?
You can throw him bums if you want or get him a real fight.
McKee, who beat Ronald freakin’ Jhun by split decision, hasn’t exactly fought a murderer’s row.
Everyone is throwing barbs at the UFC for not signing him but why is it that the only major promotion to ever show interest in him was the IFL? He fought once for K-1 and a handful of times for KOTC but why isn’t Strikeforce knocking on his door? Why hasn’t Bellator signed him?
The answer starts with a B and it’s not black.
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by Applejack McNeil on Sep 13, 2010 1:36 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 5 recs
Man, Kid Nate, you already knew where this shit was headed
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 1:36 PM EDT reply actions
Please Antonio Mckee buy his own doing Burned his bridges for being signed buy anything Zuffa UFC/WEC years ago. And it was nothing to do with his style or his age eather. McKee’s his #1 enemy and Bigest problem is he can’t keep his BIG mouth shut.
Lets see McKee Has called not only the UFC but Dana White himself Raciest in alot of past interviews, Claimed that the only reason that Yves Edwards was released after the Joe Stevenson fight was racism and that the only reason rampage was not given a instant remeatch agasint Forest eather was due to racism. Also said that the UFC wanted forest to Win becasue they could better promote a White Champion. Also McKee has said his proof of the UFC being raciest is right in its sponsors. He mentioned Harley Davidson and Jack Daniels becasue they only promote to the white audience. And these are only a few of the examples of his UFC Rasism claims. ust go and google any Mckee interiew its a topic that he always seems to bring up in every single one how the UFC/MMA are reciest.
Damn, he pulled

My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
He wins by a cut...
He wins by a cut and all of a sudden everybody wants to be on his nuts about his not being in the UFC. It’s pretty simple why he isn’t in the UFC and it has been covered in this thread and every other one about him hundreds of times. McKee is boring. Isn’t the only reason we have heard anything about him recently is that he threatened to retire if he went to decision?
There is a reason why he calls out UFC fighters yet always adds that he wants to fight them outside of the UFC. That’s right, because it will never happen. If he truly wanted to fight the best he could easily string together a couple of interesting and exciting wins and be there doing just that. Instead he’ll continue to call them out about being scared while fighting some good but not great fighters elsewhere…
McKee is a damn good fighter and should have gotten a chance in the UFC at some point. He though has chosen to utilize a style which fans loathe and the UFC management has no interest in signing, all while making comments about possible racism. There isn’t a tragedy here, there is simply a fighter who should of had a press agent handling him. That’s why the UFC doesn’t want him and that’s why none of the other big orgs have stepped up either. He is a channel changer when he fights and when he talks…
by Empty Thoughts on Sep 13, 2010 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
To be fair, I was complaining before the "cut".
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
True some were including you,
but not many at all…
My point of mentioning the cut btw is just that we have no clue how the fight would have played out if it hadn’t of happened. Would McKee have won? I’m not doubting it. Would he have won by decision and actually retired? I’m not doubting one of those two things.
He threatened retirement to make a point and then won by a cut. It’s not quite as impressive as an actual finish for me and it doesn’t all of a sudden scream that he needs to be considered something that we missed out on seeing in one of the big leagues. Lets see him get a couple of exciting wins without cuts and I’ll join the bandwagon.
by Empty Thoughts on Sep 13, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
It's the new "in" for media writers
“El Negro” is “in” right now. High profile win, he’s been getting some press. It’s also slow with a lackluster Fight Night 22 card.
I agree with you, in fact in that thread, I said he did nothing different really. He was maybe a little faster. I didn’t see him “turning it up”. Others saw differently.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Look...
Race is likely to be involved. Of course it’s not the overt sort of racism that most people think the term is limited to. Even if we want to bring it down to the level of marketing, fighters “need” to fit stereotypes as a consequence of the desire that promotions have to bring in various demographics. Unfortunately, for fighters who aren’t of European-American heritage* the models that promotions look to employ are often more problematic. Now McKee, he can’t be presented as either the angry, comical in his simplicity black guy. He also can’t be presented as the educated, safe, “isn’t it amazing that he’s disciplined and black? BLACK GSP!” type of character either.
Obviously a million and one other things are involved. This is certainly present though.
Oh yeah… and when I said European-American earlier, I meant your traditional all-American European heritages, because even within this group, not all are created equal. For example, Italians are still getting the Jersey treatment unless they were in the military… good job Luigi.
Like we were talking Saturday, his mouth implies a totally different style than what he fights.
People like comfortable stereotypes. It’s human nature. That’s why someone like Rashad bothers people so much. He’s a well-spoken, well-mannered, educated guy who happens to be real cocky. That shit throws people for a loop because they expect someone who speaks like he does to be a humble Jon Jones, Colin Powell type brother and he’s every bit as brash and cocky as other fighters.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Even Rashad is a manageable stereotype though. You get a little bit from both sides. McKee, that’s just difficult to market, unless promotions are looking to really grab a hold of young urban intellectuals, those enthralled by the topic of race relations, and anybody who read Revolutionary Suicide in jail.
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 13, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Rashad is managable, but on the scale Rampage > Jon Jones > Rashad
Even Phil Davis is feeling a little heat with some of his comments about race. The internets didn’t take too kindly to those.
LOL @ “Revolutionary Suicide”.
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Revolutionary Suicide is finally back in print again as of about 7 months ago.
About fucking time. It has a ton of value even as a strictly biographical work.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
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Very true. A lot of literature directly from, and simply related to, the BPP has gone out of print. It’s a damn shame. There are a lot of good things to be taken from those works regarding class stratification and racial dynamics in American society.
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 13, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
As well as learning just how much of a cokehead Huey was. I swear, he was shirtless and sweaty for so much of Elaine Brown’s autobiography that I felt a little uncomfortable reading it.
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 13, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
That it’s out of print? Of course not. That shit is dangerous, you know. ;)
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 13, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Your scale is accurate.
My boy Pistol Grip P been learn to play his position before they get rid of him next time he catches a cold. Evidently nobody informed him of the rules.
Revolutionary Suicide is brilliance. Newton was a genius and a complete lunatic at the same time.
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 13, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
PGP has a long road ahead of him because of his doppleganger Jon Jones in the same division
If he’s smart, he takes Jones out to eat at all you can eat buffets to pack on the pounds.
Most of our geniuses are crazy.
And I just noticed the Victor Newman avatar. That dude was vicious.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Pistol Grip P is in it for that long term money, while Jumpshot Jones is going to get his soon – which you know means that he’ll somehow get fucked over and fade into Bolivian, as Mike Tyson would say (not really, I think Jones will be around.. but he’s moving to HW before P gets his day in the sun).
Victor Newman is vicious. He’s still on TV. I only realized this recently, as I walked by a television which was randomly on in the mid-afternoon.
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 13, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah, and I enjoyed your commentary on my boy Larceny Loiseau earlier.
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 13, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Vic is STILL on the Y&R?
Damn I remember my big sis loved that show and Vic was pulling cards back in 1990.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah man, I walked through and was like “that voice… it’s so familiar..”
Sure enough, there that motherfucker is on the TV, balling out of control, talking down to bitches a third his age like he could fuck them or leave them and it ain’t no matter. His G is too futuristic for the world we live in.
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 13, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Listen here Jack Abbott, I will own your ass and fuck your sister
YOUGOTTHAT
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I might even sneak it in her butt.
One can be certain she would enjoy, the delicate flower that she is.
OG Victor Newman. Far too gully.
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 13, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
JACKABBOTT I will set up a camera and you will watch
YOUGOTTHAT
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Though I coulda sworn that Jack got Victor cold one day
Victor had a heart attack and Jack was right there and walked over dude’s body.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Victor doesn't take L's, sometimes his wins are just delayed.
Plus you can’t spell victory…….
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 13, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You think that is why some don’t like Rashad? I can think of many other reasons.
Personally, I have issues with the crotch grabbing and dancing around when his opponent (chuck) was still down. I don’t give a damn if he is educated or not, it comes down to showing class during and after a fight.
Why does everyone assume that someone is talking about them?
Did I say “Lynchman”? No. Clearly we said some.
LOL @ him “dancing” after beating Chuck. He was celebrating. Ya boy Chuck did the same thing running around like a fucking idiot with his hands outstretched after every KO. GTFOH. Fight fans are funny.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Disrespectful black man is disrespectful.
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 13, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean he did the SANFORD and SON dance
He didn’t run around, he didn’t jump on the cage, he didn’t flip anyone off. He did the “Elizabeth, this is the big one” thing for like 4 seconds and the net went fucking ballistic. It’s shit like that which makes me wonder.
Meanwhile, just the other day, I caught shit for saying Clementi was trash for crotch chopping Melvin and putting his dick in his face after their fight.
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t like Rashad because he’s fucking corney
If you want to hear my opinion on Les Miles go to BJPenn.com.
I'll give you that
Dude is
/sarcasm
SCM aka Black Lesnar aka Wesley Types aka Slap ya Favorite MMA Writer
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by S.C. Michaelson on Sep 13, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
You should have known better than to ride with Melvin. Maybe you could get away with that shit on WorldStarHipHop or something.
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 13, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
kid nate ! come on
pulling the race card
1st off there are at least 5 guys who should be in the hall of fame that are not and likely wont be , mo is def not on that list (thatd be frank shamrock)
2nd , although mckee should be in the ufc , for him to act as if he is the best fighter in the world by beating 3 ufc wash outs and losing to karo (over 7 years ago) is a joke. I cant imagine his unapologetic attitude about his boring LNP style ,is paving his way to the ufc
one last thing the combined ufc record of the ufc vets he has beaten 2-5
not exactly world beaters
by Richard Doughty on Sep 13, 2010 3:04 PM EDT reply actions
I am really surprised Bellator hasn’t taken advantage of the UFC’s and Strikeforce’s reluctance to sign McKee, being that they have avoided the freak show path thus far and have really focused on picking up legitmate fighters to build their credibility.
Cause if he wins
your champ is a boring old black dude with a huge mouth shouting racism.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Los Luche Libres
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Konrad. Askren. Warren. McKee. etc.
Once again… Wrestllator.
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 13, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Those guys are all super green elite prospects
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Completely. I’m just stubborn and want to call it Wrestllator.
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 13, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
same here.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve honestly enjoyed watching all of them fight. A lot of people just want shitty striking.
by Brent Ducharme on Sep 13, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you even see Konrad fight? :)
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
true
i bet they regret the HW tourney a little at this point. It hasn’t been pretty.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Kind of hope that Bellator takes advantage of Duffy’s release from the UFC. Duffy would be far and away their best HW.
He'd be like HW Jesus.
Smiting the wicked with his rippled abs.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
My only concern would be that he’d be so dominant that his fights in Bellator wouldn’t be that appealing. And yes, Bellator’s beached walruses would be in awe of Duffy’s situation.
You never know
He did get Russow’d in his last fight. Beating Konrad might be pretty difficult for him.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
But that was purely a fluke..
Duffy was in cruise control when he got KO’d, I don’t think that type of situation will ever happen to him again (dominating than being the recipient of out-of-nowhere KO). But if there is anyone in Bellator that could challenge Duffy it would Konrad. However, Duffy did show great takedown defense against Russow and if Konrad can’t take Duffy down his chances of winning are bleak. But who knows, maybe lighting does strike twice on the same poor bastard (that bastard being Duffy).
Except he's had a hand full of fights
most being against uber-elite FW’s, finishing three of them.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
* 2 of them
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
How about KID or Bibiano?
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
He still fought him.
In his 30 something fights, who has McKee fought that can compare to Bibiano or KID?
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
But he lost....
so are you giving credit to him for simple stepping in the ring with Bibiano? McKee has made it clear that he wants to fight the best but that opportunity simply hasn’t come yet
Because of him.
He needs to accept that.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
You really think he is the only one responsible for his current career predicament? I don’t see how you can deny that some politics are at play here
if course they did.
But ultimately, he only has control over himself. If he really wanted to be there, he could just bite his tongue and get paid. Like a lot of other fighter do. He can make a tell all book afterward, if he wants to stay true to his cause.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Compared to McKee
Warren is Brock Lesnar. In terms of talent he’s fought during his short career.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Brock has not struggled nearly as much as Warren. Warren struggled against a low-tier FW in Eric Marriott, Brock has only struggled against one top tier hw (Shane Carwin only, not counting the 1st fight with Mir)
I'm talking about the competition he's faced as a noob
He’s fought some of the best in the world, with almost no experience at all.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I give Warren a lot respect for fighting the guys he has fought while basically being a neophyte, but he as been on the edge of defeat many times, something that Brock has been better at avoiding
Definitely
I was using hyperbole.
Maybe the problem for Warren is he’s in such a stacked division, Compared to the UFC HW division when Brock started. Just a theory.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Sep 13, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't the thought of a RAmpage-Forrest rematch
kinda get blown out of the window when Jackson went on his red bull fueled rampage and was chased by the police and etc?
Pun totally intended, by the way.
CPG
McKee is 40.
UFC doesn’t want an old guy who thinks he is better than he really is beating up scrubs, cans, and no names including those with winning records with wins coming from other “cheap” opponents. Only exception here with 40 year olds in the UFC are Couture and possibly Liddell. Put McKee in there with Couture and he’ll teach him a lesson in a real MMA match.
Mckee vs Couture
Even though it would be a lightweight vs light heavyweight, he would put up a much better fight than Handy’s last two opponents
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
by The Blackula on Sep 14, 2010 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Antonio McKee = Boise State
Is he right in saying that he might be better than people inside the organization? Of course.
But he’s 40 (and Boise State is a small market) and he’s not marketable.
Boise State can and should play in BCS bowl games, but you can’t make it sound like they have no part in choosing to play in a crap division where they won’t face big competition. Antonio McKee should fight in the UFC, but you can’t expect them to roll out the red carpet for someone who doesn’t bring much to the financial table and hasn’t fought in big orgs at least partially by choice.
I want to see Antonio McKee in the UFC, but let’s not act like the UFC is trying to protect their fighters and Antonio McKee is some kind of superman prodigy who could beat everyone there based on a spotty-at-best record from a guy who is 40 years old. It’s about money, and McKee can’t bring that to the table.
boise beat oklahoma in '06
in what was probably the most exciting college football game in the past 40 years. They beat an undefeated TCU team last year in the Fiesta Bowl. They are on a 28 game regular season win streak including wins over ranked Oregon teams twice. Comparing Antonio McKee to Boise State Football from the past few years is like comparing a shit sandwich to a wagyu steak.
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by Cory Braiterman on Sep 13, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions

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