Wrestlers will dominate MMA in the near future
MMA fans and writers have been complaining recently due to the fact that some of MMA’s most dominant athletes like John Fitch, GSP, Gray Maynard and others keep winning without finishing fights.
I am afraid that this is only the beginning. I strongly believe that in the near future, all champions in all weight divisions will have a wrestling background.
More after the jump.
That being said, you cannot accuse fighters of playing it safe by not engaging in stand up wars when they can just shoot for a takedown and play it safe. A fighter can’t afford to lose just to prove that he can strike. Look at Jorge Gurgel. He stands and bangs and he loses. Let’s say that he starts taking opponents down, dominating them and winning decisions. The same fans that call him stupid right now for engaging in stand up, those same fans will start calling him boring once he starts winning ground fighting decisions.
In order for a fighter to keep getting sponsorships and eventually stay in the UFC he has to keep winning. And if his main strength is his wrestling base it is obvious that he will keep fighting where he is strong (unless he is Dan Henderson). My point is that you cannot blame the fighters for playing by the rules in order to win.
So why is this happening? Why are these fighters so dominant and why can’t the finish fights since they dominate everyone?
The truth is that, in order to control a guy from top you cannot land significant strikes because you have to let go and punch from a distance to generate power. That is why when the guy in the bottom stands up he barely has a scratch on him.
The main problem lies in the unified rules of MMA. The only way you can stop a wrestler when he shoots or after he fails to finish a takedown is by using kicks and knees. When wrestlers shoot, one of their knees is on the floor and their opponent is not allowed to knee them to the head. There are times when a wrestler is so exhausted, that when he goes for a takedown and fails, simply lands in front of his opponent knees. Instead of receiving a knee to the head, the wrestler is able to get away with a couple of harmless punches and just lay down till he stand back up. In the Pride era, if a fighter failed to get a takedown he paid for it with knees and soccer kicks to the head.
On the other hand a wrestler that relies on top control can hit their opponent very hard with a knee while not losing control. Unfortunately, knees to the head of a downed opponent will never be allowed in the U.S.
The other problem is judging. I disagree with those who believe that a fighter should not get points for a takedown if his opponent stands right up. A good takedown can be spectacular and get the crowd excited and can even finish a fight when the opponent lands on a limb or on his head resulting in an injury. My problem is with submission attempts.
If a fighter fighting off his back gets the guy in a submission hold and almost gets it, this attempt should be scored higher than a takedown because it is a move that can finish the fight.
Let’s say for example that Chael Sonnen fights Demian Maia, gets the takedown and starts hitting Maia on the ground without landing anything significant. Then at some point Maia catches him in a triangle choke. Sonnen’s face turns blue but somehow he manages to escape. The round will end and the judges will give the round to Sonnen. All I ask is why? He got a takedown but in reality Maia’s strength is fighting of his back so no harm done to him. Sonnen did not do anything that can finish the fight. Maia did by catching him in the triangle. Maia should get the round.
The judges need to score submission attempts higher than takedowns and top control awarding a fighter’s efforts to finish the fight even from his back. Aggresion from the bottom is not rewarded in MMA. BJJ fighters know that when they are on bottom, they will not get any points no matter what they do. That is why they do not even bother anymore. Everyone tries to stand up knowing that they are on their way to a decision loss. Some fighters are guard players. Their gameplan is to fight from the bottom. Why can't they get ANY points when they are just trying to implement their gameplan and finish the opponent from the bottom?
That being said as the sport evolves pure MMA fighters will start to emerge and will take control of the sport. These are the fighters that started training MMA as a whole at a young age. I predict that the champion wrestlers and the pure BJJ champions of tomorrow will not be able to compete using their one-sided game against guys who started training in all sides of the MMA game since they were 15 years old thus becoming good in everything.
BTW, if you do not like ground fighting you can just watch K-1 fights. No boring grappling there.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Just because we have some very good wrestlers in MMA today does not mean that the sport as a whole will be dominated by such fighters for all eternity. Looking at the scoring might be a good idea, but I’d rather see the judges get the current system working before tinkering with it too much. As to the dominance of wrestlers – we’ve been here before. There has been a time when wrestlers were the be-all end-all in MMA and no one knew what to do about it. About the three fighters you mentioned – should they ever meet, Penn will probably have Maynard figured out before they ever step into the cage, Fitch has been beaten and GSP, well, he’s the anomaly – but it’s not just because he’s a phenomenal wrestler (the dude will eat anyone alive standing up and on the ground).
You don't like wrestling in MMA? Go watch K-1.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Sep 1, 2010 7:10 AM EDT reply actions
LOVE your sig
"I got a good Christian raising and a 8th grade education / Ain't no need in y'all in treating me this way." - Billy Joe Shaver
People piss and moan about everything
“The same fans that call him stupid right now for engaging in stand up, those same fans will start calling him boring once he starts winning ground fighting decisions. "-THANKS YOU this is so true
If guys stand and fight its labled as ultimate kickboxing or as in Kid Nates post about the Edgar Penn fight call it jab and jive. When really it was more or less Edgar tactically taking Penn apart.
If these same fighters take it to the ground and either work to sub rather than GNP or just grind the guy with GNP but aren’t able to drop massive bombs then its called lay and pray.
I agree with the post that if a guy is taken down and gets right up the TD shouldnt count for much. But I think when a guy is taken down and kept there it should be scored higher than a sub attempt. My reasoning for this is that getting and keeping a takedown is cage control, where as a failed sub attempt is just that….a failure. It really isn’t all that different from a striker throwing for that KO punch but not landing it. Its kind of like wow if that would have worked it would have been awesome, but it didnt work so lets move on.
Finally I think good wrestlers who train BJJ defence can control fighting for a long time. A good wrestler will almost always be able to take down a good striker(Sonnen vs Silva) and if the wrestler is smart enough to build good BJJ defence unlike Sonnen he is going to be a BJJ guys nightmare. To add to that a wrestler who trains offensive BJJ has the potential to become a grappling machine because the two go hand in hand. For instance look what Ben Askren did to Hornbuckle. He took him down and was on the offensive grappling the entire fight, and as a result utterly dominated him…….Just my two cents
I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!
Well said
I have often gotten flamed for saying this (much less after Sonnen-Silva), but it will be the elite MMA Wrestlers who dominate the sport, as they continue to replace the elite MT (or similar striking)/BJJ guys (BJ, Anderson, Shogun, Aldo is a little different, but…) as the best of the best.
I define an elite MMA Wrestler (what I used to refer to as an elite functional (mma-centric) wrestler) as one with outstanding takedowns, takedown defense, top control, positional control, ability to pass, submission defense, and effective striking from the top. Good submission ability is a plus, but using it traditionally is not a requirement – using it defensively and to gain/enhance position control is the bigger goal in MMA.
Although guys with many of the above skillsets but lacking certain key components may yet still be champs in the near-term (Rashad, Sonnen, Maynard), ultimately their holes will be exploited by others.
The true future is both guys like Askren and Davis who started adding BJJ to their elite wrestling long before they were in MMA as well as those who are supreme athletes and are able to fully incorporate new ideas and techniques into their arsenal (GSP, Jones, perhaps Cain).
The only foreseeable way in the immediate future of slowing their takeover is changes to the URs (allowing knees/kicks to the head of opponents during takedown attempts) or possibly changes to judging fights (which would probably just make them more entertaining rather than prevent their takeover – not a bad goal at all for the growth of the sport IMO).
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Sep 1, 2010 9:08 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
agreed on the need for some rules changes
and judging that recognizes you can both control a fight and win a fight from the bottom.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Wrestlers already dominate
but they won\t forever. Adjustments will be made. Strategies will be tweeked. The sport will evolve. It’s how stuff works.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis
i wouldnt
be surprised if there are judges awarding points for a takedown on the guy who was pullled into guard for a guillotine

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