Is Jon Fitch Too Boring for UFC Title Shot Against Georges St Pierre or Josh Koscheck?
by Kid Nate on Aug 9, 2010 3:47 PM EDT
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Zach Arnold writes:
Jon Fitch is the Tim Duncan of MMA. No matter how good he is, people get bored by him. I can't recall hearing so many people tell me this past weekend that watching him fight is like watching paint dry. He never finishes opponents decisively. He always gets a decision win. Shaquille O'Neal called Tim Duncan "The Big Fundamental" and yet most people think Duncan is completely forgettable. Style points do matter and so does finishing fights. MMA is as much a sport about entertainment than anything else. Fitch, facing the hardly-ever-makes-Welterweight-limit Thiago Alves, dominated his opponent but it was the kind of technical snoozefest that leaves people heading to the exits to go get a hot dog or more food as if it was an intermission. Sadly, you can almost predict what is going to happen in a Jon Fitch fight.
...
The problem with Jon Fitch is that he's vastly more entertaining outside the cage than he is inside of it. When you listen to him talk about MMA, he's really good at breaking down the technical aspects of the game. He's entertaining and almost the complete opposite of his in-ring persona. When asked last week by Josh Gross of Sports Illustrated if he worries about his ‘boring fight' label, Fitch shrugged it off and said that there's not much he can do about it because his opponents aren't going for the kill. He predicted that Alves would go for the kill and that there would be a finish. Sadly, there was no such finish to be found.
...
Reading between the lines (in Ariel Helwani's interview with Dana White), it seems pretty clear that if we get a decisive winner in the Shields/Kampmann fight, that guy will become the #1 contender to the winner of St. Pierre/Koscheck. If it's a close decision, that winner will likely fight Jon Fitch and the winner of that fight will then get the winner of St. Pierre/Koscheck. As much as we like to sit here and think that wins and losses ultimately matter the most in MMA, what matters just as greatly is how much fan demand there is to pay to watch you fight. Jon Fitch may have won 22 out of his 23 fights, but not a lot of fans are all that interested in paying to watch him fight these days. In many ways, Fitch is the complete opposite of Chael Sonnen - a man who scratched and clawed his way into a main event spot, seized the moment, and radically overachieved to win the respect of every fight fan in the world. Whereas Sonnen is respected by mostly everyone, Fitch is gaining more disrespect from the fans every time he fights and continues to get ‘boring' decisions in the UFC.
What do you think? Personally, I'd like to see Fitch get the winner of Jake Shields vs Martin Kampmann. But that's just me, personally, as a fan. As a so-called pundit, I think that would be a very bad business decision and I'd really go after Dana White if he did it.
Then there's the question of whether or not Fitch would even challenge his teammate Josh Koscheck. Here's what Dana White told Ariel Helwani about that (transcribed by Zach Arnold) after the break:
I like the way Jon Fitch has handled this. I don't think he is dodging the question. Here's the thing and this is what I can't stand... you got these guys who are on the same team and they're like, ‘no way, we'll never fight each other, we love each other.' You can be best friends with this guy and it's happened in boxing many times. When best friends have fought each other. It's not about being friends. You don't have to dislike a guy that you fight. It's about saying ‘I know that I'm in the best in the world, you think that you're the best in the world, and there's one way to find out, we're going to compete against each other and see who the best is.' You can't not be friends, you know, you don't have to not to be friends to do that and I think, personally, just from what I know of Jon Fitch and what I know of Josh Koscheck, I truly believe that these are two guys that would step up and say, yeah, you know what? We're cool, I respect him, I like him, he is my friend, and I'm willing to step up and see who the best fighter in the world is. I truly believe that of these two guys and there's some guys that aren't and guys, listen, and there's been guys that said that they wouldn't and I respect them and I like them but it's a [expletive] crock of [expletive]. It's a crock of [expletive] and it has no place in this business."
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You don’t want to see GSP light Fitch up in spectacular fashion again?
What’s wrong with you?
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
by Ubernoober on Aug 9, 2010 3:50 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I'm all for that
should we get there. I just look at it this way — GSP vs Koscheck is a long time off. There’s plenty of time for Shields/Kampmann and then we could have Shields/Kampmann vs Fitch on the same card as GSP vs Koscheck.
more good fights.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Keeping GSP on ice until December to coach TUF makes me an unhappy panda.
GSP is the greatest athlete in MMA, and is the P4P king, don’t waste his time with TUF shit!
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
by Ubernoober on Aug 9, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
The money is the motive.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 9, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
How much?
GSP could have really good chance of getting in two fights (maybe 3) in the time it takes for the tuf production to wrap and the fight to happen. Are they making the equivalent on tuf as to what they would for a show and win?
by god-damn long hair on Aug 9, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
It must be worth while.
Otherwise, why would GSP even sign on?
I’m not sure, but one huge(over million buys) show might be better from a financial POV for GSP and the UFC. GSP might be getting a bigger piece of a much bigger pie. The UFC might be trying to set up a huge show down the line. Who knows? Even the GSP primetime shows pull in bug ratings. They might triple the buys for GSP/Kos by doing the show.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 9, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
GSP's TUF involvement, I have to believe, part of a bigger, more long term picture.
Sure he could rack up a few wins on PPV, but, while we know who GSP is & he is one of the more popular fighters in the sport even to the casual fan, Spike TV exposure is millions more eyeballs to see him & could mean more dollars for both the promotion & himself down the line.
by LikeTheWhiskey on Aug 9, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
That's what I was getting at.
You can build a franchise around that man.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 9, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
i kinda do wanna hear his accent though when he gets angry or dramatic
if it’s in the script, he’ll have to do it. and it’s gonna sound awesome.
Go big red!
Personally I'm interested in seeing is Shields can out-Fitch Fitch
"I'm not Dog the Bounty Hunter, I don't issue apologies. And you're not going to be the first one to get one out of me." - Sonnen
"It’s going to be like sex with a grizzly bear, you know, a lot of scratching and growling on both sides." - Don Frye
RIP Sherdog (6/26/10)
FITCH IS PAINFULLY BORING
I love watching the a great ground game battle, appreciate JJ etc etc, and I also think Fitch is a great guy, trains like a madman, and has great heart BUT his fights are painfully boring again and again. I don’t know what the answer is but his fights stink on the entertainment side of things and for the general fighting competition aspect.
Exactly
It takes two to have a boring fight, and giving the GSPs and Silvas of the world durable opponents who just take a drubbing can still lead to exciting fights. GSP vs Fitch 1 was a fun fight to watch, for example. If you give GSP a strong wrestler, you may see some stand-up. If you give him an exciting striker like Hardy or Alves, you get a lesser showing, as those guys can’t keep the fight standing, and largely provide target practice on the ground.
"I'd love to be a Cheick Kongo looking brother that could actually move and do a lot of funky stuff - Jiu Jitsu, takedowns, kicks and stuff." - Jon Jones.
"This is the internet: you either have soul-stopping power or you’re a pillow-fisted pansy. There is no middle ground." - woomikee
I WOULD LOVE TO SEE FITCH vs KOS OR SHIELDS
I would like to see a fight with another great wrestler to see what happens now with evolved skills
I think it will be a great fight
Fitch is the best 170 pound fighter in the world not named Georges St Pierre. I don’t see how anyone doesn’t want to see that fight.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 9, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I think not, on both counts
I think Kos is the 2nd best WW in the UFC, and he, Shields and Askren would be favored over Fitch IMO.
More importantly, for the idea of GSP-Fitch 2, there is absolutely no reason to think Fitch has any more of a chance now than he did then.
If anything, it would be even more 1-sided if that’s possible.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 9, 2010 6:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Having said that,
I like Fitch, a lot, and I personally think he would beat Shields.
Frankly, he (Fitch…or Shields for that matter) would be better served moving up to 185 IMO…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 9, 2010 6:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Askren?
You’re nuts. That kid is greener than green and Dan Hornbuckle < Jon Fitch.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 9, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
So I have been told...
As for the rest, at this point Askren might not be favored over Fitch, but in a year he will be, and even now, I would take him.
Then again, I would take Jones over anyone at LHW, possibly excepting Machida, and Davis over all of the UFC’s top LHWs, excepting Jones, Machida, Rua and Rashad.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 9, 2010 7:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It depends...
if Shields demolishes Kampmann then give the title shot to Shields. If Kampmann wins let him fight Fitch. If Shields lays and prays and looks just like Fitch, then give it to Fitch.
He has earned it.
He is boring though and I would be for him fighting the Sheilds / Kampmann winner.
I don’t mind the idea of GSP laying down another epic beat down though.
You know I am a Fitch fan, and I have found myself getting bored by him…but in between his last fight I guess I realized what I had been missing and when he smothered Alves it brought it back…sometimes a slow steady pace can be exciting when your making your opponent look like he has no business being in the ring with you…Fitch deserves the next shitle tot
"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield
"A good word that I got from the Mike Tyson Documentary... I'm going to absolutley decimate this motherf**ker, I haven't been in the dictionary to see what it actually means but I'm guessing it's going to be something in the way of just killing a motherf**ker." -Paul Daley (on the definition of Decimate)
Watching Sonnen bring offence to Silva on the ground
highlighted more of what people dislike about Fitch. He actually laid a beat down on an over-matched Saunders, but against stiffer competition all he can do is muster takedowns and hold top position. For all the flack that Alves is getting people seem to forget that he reversed and ended up on top of Fitch in each round. Fitch is still gonna got blown out by GSP.
It’s true he will get beat down by GSP and the reversals that Alves worked out were great…but the time it took for him to get them was detrimental to the fight, Fitch seems to fight a very calculated fight that unless your GSP can’t be beat. About Sonnen….I heart Sonnen, and Fitch is clearly not as punishing from top position but nontheless dominating.
"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield
"A good word that I got from the Mike Tyson Documentary... I'm going to absolutley decimate this motherf**ker, I haven't been in the dictionary to see what it actually means but I'm guessing it's going to be something in the way of just killing a motherf**ker." -Paul Daley (on the definition of Decimate)
After “The performance” and the Epic level shit talk Sonnen will never walk alone.
"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield
"A good word that I got from the Mike Tyson Documentary... I'm going to absolutley decimate this motherf**ker, I haven't been in the dictionary to see what it actually means but I'm guessing it's going to be something in the way of just killing a motherf**ker." -Paul Daley (on the definition of Decimate)
The things he said were far to ignorant for to ever be on his side in any fight.
He is clearly talented and I had nothing against him before he went stupid with talk, but as far as I am concerned, I have zero respect for him as a person and will never wish for anything positive to happen to him.
what about
a positive chlamydia test result?
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 9, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hmmm...
You really gave me something to think about. The positive test probably means he got laid… I am stuck.
It could have been
a fat old lady at the greyhound station. Or a tranny he met in vegas.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 9, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know. It’s all the same with the lights off and any respectable Republican only does it with the lights off.
remember the one christian guy
who worked for Bush?
He got banging his wife in the ‘wrong hole’ and said it was an accident. It was dark and he couldn’t tell. He was a gyno.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 9, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
You are talking about David Hager
And he used to drug his wife so that he could do his thing while she slept. Roger Huerta should be stationed outside that fucker’s bedroom.
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Aug 9, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I couldn’t remember his name. Fucking crazy that he’s not in prison.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 9, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Fitch
Goes for submissions, sonnen does not have that in his arsenal.
I saw little difference in Fitch than I did in Sonnen as far as attempting to finish.
Fitch would never be caught in a sub like that though, his bjj is too good.
Jon Jones LHW Champion 2011
Fitch briefly threatens submissions to stop his opponent from getting up...
He never works hard for a sub and he will never risk losing control to set up attempt a sub.
I found this to be very exciting
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
by SSreporters on Aug 9, 2010 3:57 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
Fitch isn't too boring to fight GSP (should he win)
But Fitch is completely over matched and vastly inferior. Fitch poses no offensive threat standing and GSP is way better on the ground than Fitch is and just passed his guard in the last fight with incredible ease.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
Yes...
He is.
Contributor, NorthTexasFisticuffs.com
Follow me on Twitter
by Applejack McNeil on Aug 9, 2010 4:00 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
And I don’t give a damn what King Mo says about it either.
Contributor, NorthTexasFisticuffs.com
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by Applejack McNeil on Aug 9, 2010 4:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 7 recs
BUT HE’S THE BEST WRESTLER IN MMA LOLZ
Honestly, probably the most overrated fighter on the planet at this point (except maybe his last opponent).
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 9, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
These two opponents would be his most exciting fights
as wrestlers often cancel each other out. Business wise a GSP fight probably doesn’t make sense. But a fight with Kos could be sold on the teammate angle I would imagine.
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton
I can see a fight between two teammates
Being extremely dull.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
You mean by going out of the way not to throw a punch?
That could definitely happen. If Kos wins though, they should just let poor Fitch move up.
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton
I did a fanpost on this
I’m not too concerned that he’s “boring” – I’m much more concerned that I don’t think he has a realistic chance of winning. Fitch has fought five fights since he took on GSP and he has done nothing in those fights to make me think anything different would happen if he fought him again.
That, to me, is Jon Fitch’s problem. It’s too bad because he’s a cool guy and a great fighter.
Even if he makes GSP look human, it doesn’t mean Fitch can do the same. Kozcheck is light years ahead of Fitch in the stand-up game. Kozcheck also has a different wrestling style, he comes in much lower and faster, where Fitch uses the clinch game.
by Bob Loblaw TX on Aug 9, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
This.
Koscheck has shown KO power before, which is totally foreign to Fitch.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
This^^
Styles make fights, and Fitch just isn’t going top beat GSP. Let’s see what another fighter brings to the table.
It’s be different if Fitch had unveiled some explosive new facet to his arsenal, but it’s the same sad style that he has been thrashed with already.
I think the problem is
despite the fact that Fitch has earned the rematch, the first fight was so decisive that isn’t compelling. GSP murdered Fitch, turn him into a zombie him and then murdered him again. Even if he avoids being double murdered he will still get murdered.
@rask4p on Twitter
by rask4p on Aug 9, 2010 4:14 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You just pissed off a whole lot of Spurs fans.
/I agree completely and rather see Shields fight GSP or Kos.
"Dodger fans aren’t happy when foul balls get into their section, because it interferes with their playing with the beachball"- Mike Krukow
I loved the Spurs in that day
Fuck everyone. We’re scoring 85 points throughout the playoffs and winning every series. Don’t like it? Beat it. That series with the Pistons was fantastic for anyone that appreciates good defense.
I’m so sick of people hating on styles that they find boring. Go fucking build ships in bottles if this is so boring.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 9, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good defense or horrible offense? Or perhaps both?
The first 4 games were not even competitive.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
I've been making the Duncan comparison for a long time
I have so much respect for a dude that can systematically beat top tier opponents, but facts are facts. Fitch is painfully boring. He’s an event killer live and on tv. The arena starts booing live, and at home people start talking and tune out. It’s def a serious problem. Earlier today someone posted something about Fitch moving up…. If he beat Anderson, which seems very possible now, that would be a nightmare.
by Myke25 on Aug 9, 2010 4:19 PM EDT reply actions
"and at home people start talking and tune out"
That is the advantage of PPV people won’t change the channel. Even in the main event people like to see it through. If the UFC was stuck with TV only, Fitch would have a lot harder time getting another title shot.
From my post on Cageside Seats:
Jon Fitch will not be getting a title shot. Should they give it to him? No. He should have to beat the winner of Jake Shields and Martin Kampmann to get back to GSP and even then maybe not. The cold hard fact about the fight game that we know and love is that you have to be able to draw people to come and watch you fight. If you can’t draw people then you don’t get into the main event. That’s all there is to it. Maybe you don’t like it but that’s how it has to be. The promotion has to make money and if Fitch is the champion then the promotion won’t be making money, at least not on him. He’s a great fighter but he really is a problem for the UFC. He beats all the potential challengers that could turn into draws without ever making himself a draw in the process. Initially, the crowd, and I loved them tonight, were cheering when Fitch was getting takedowns. Then, after 2 rounds of not a whole lot going on, the crowd finally turned and starting booing him again. He just never seems to do a lot of damage on the ground. His control is amazing but he doesn’t deal in damage. That said, I really want to see a fight with Shields. Stylistically, it should be a great fight.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
The people that were cheering for Fitch were probably the same people that were chanting
USA – USA – USA – USA
during every main card fight.
I was cheering for Fitch and I’m not the type to chant like that. I root for the fighter and I love watching Fitch grind out his opponents.
by thekiltedwonder on Aug 9, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
So you dont want to see who the best fight in the world is you want to see who the best and most entertaining fighter? they have that already its called the WWE or fake wrestling. I think you would like it better.
by Darren Watkins on Aug 9, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
How did you get that out of that post?
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
I completely disagree.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 9, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually had to write about it
I didn’t link to yours because I like you, but I thoroughly, painfully disagree.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 9, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Entertainment value...
Personally, I feel like I’m learning how to enjoy watching guys like Fitch and Shields fight, but I think it’s very understandable that many fans of the sport find these guys boring and aren’t thrilled by the idea of dropping $50+ on a PPV to watch them. I think due to the nature of the PPV model the UFC is forced to walk the fine line between competitive integrity and maximum entertainment. If a guy like Fitch has completely cleaned out the division hasn’t he earned the right to get beat up by GSP again, even if no one wants to watch it? It seems like Dana is (understandably?) looking for any way not to make that fight. It’s bad in two ways 1) Fitch is boring 2) There is no reason to think he will present any new challenges to GSP.
Of course if the only way around it is to put Fitch up against Shields I think that’s a lose-lose situation. Both guys are obviously very good at what they do, but I don’t think I’ve ever watched an event with someone who was excited to see either of those guys. At least we haven’t already seen Shields vs GSP. There is at least the possibility that Shields will out grapple GSP, even if it doesn’t seem likely.
If I’m Dana I really have no idea what to do with Fitch at this point…
Golden State Warriors '10-'11 Season: The Return of ^^^^
i think we're all jumping the gun
because mma fandom seems fickle nowadays. GSP already has a fight lined up, so the fitch fight at least would be 8- 10 months away. So much can happen in that time span. Boring or not, if Fitch’s singular loss is to GSP in a 5 rounder, and he keeps winning, he deserves the shot.
But what if he loses before all of that happens? or what if he dominates jake shields if they fight? this is just so premature of an argument.
and to answer your question, no.
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
I'm a Fitch apologist for life...
But I’m not excited about seeing him fight GSP again. I just don’t think his skills have improved enough since the last fight that he has a realistic path to victory.
Add to that the fact that Fitch hasn’t wanted to fight his teammates in the division, and the fact that Chael Sonnen proved a dominant wrestler pretty much has a free 185 belt waiting for them, I’d love to see Fitch move up to 185. He could put on some muscle and make it up there, and I’d pick him all day to beat Anderson Silva.
How can anyone say someone is too boring to be champ?
How in the world could anyone vote he is too boring to become the champ? Wtf is with this bullshit of a option to vote. Is this a sport or WWE entertainment?
by Darren Watkins on Aug 9, 2010 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yep, it's complete bullshit.
An MMA champion (especially in the UFC) is symbolic of the highest level of talent in the divison; “boring” should not even be a factor of consideration.
"Referees, be sure to step in and stop the fight on time tomorrow, because I might get carried away in the moment and my many punches may end up destroying my opponent." - Tatsuya "CRUSHER" Kawajiri
Is Jon Fitch boring? Yes.
Does he deserve a title shot? Yes
Will fans pay money to watch Fitch Fight? No
Did Dana weasel his way out of giving Fitch a title shot? Yes.
I enjoy a technical fight as much as the next guy. But I like exciting fights more and Jon Fitch hasn’t been in an exciting fight since UFC 87. So Dana please give Fitch a title shot so I can watch GSP wreck him a second time. PRETTY PLEASE WITH KOSCHECK ON TOP OF THAT.
And his exciting fight was watching his face get turned into a prune for 5 rounds.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
Don't forget this would be a GSP fight
GSP vs Anyone sells good numbers – GSP has a huge fanbase, even gets women into the bars, and sells tickets. The person he is beating on is less important. It would only matter if Fitch were likely to win and stay at the top of the heap. If Kos or Fitch beat GSP, GSP will get a re-match, sell more tickets, and likely retake the title. Only GSP loses anything in that scenario.
"I'd love to be a Cheick Kongo looking brother that could actually move and do a lot of funky stuff - Jiu Jitsu, takedowns, kicks and stuff." - Jon Jones.
"This is the internet: you either have soul-stopping power or you’re a pillow-fisted pansy. There is no middle ground." - woomikee
Fitch could sell if the UFC machine put their stamp on that documentary that is coming out about him. i heard its really good
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by Austin Martin on Aug 9, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
watching Jon Fitch fight on UFC 100 following Brock/Mir2 was like having to cuddle with a girl after fucking…
watching Jon Fitch fight before the Anderson/Sonnen was like having to listen to a girl before fucking…
No matter what, a Jon Fitch fight almost always turns out to be nothing more than a necessary nuisance.
by mmalogic on Aug 9, 2010 4:31 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
Comparing Fitch to Tim Duncan is an insult to Tim Duncan.
"Vo-cab-u-lary's necessary when diggin' into my library..."
by TDITZ on Aug 9, 2010 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
I like Fitch more than i do Sonnen.
Fitch gets all this hate and Sonnen has a cult following. I DONT GET IT!!! I actually liked the alves fitch fight . Sonnen had Anderson on the ground for 23 mins never attempted to finish the fight and didn’t raise a welt on the champ with his G’n’Pitter Patter and is some how a hero? Silva did more more damage from the bottom in that fight with out a doubt. Fitch Suffocates alves, doesnt get touched, racks up another one sided decision …… Yet he is the boring one??? its a funny world we live in. I like Finishers in general but if i had to pick my favorite "ground and kinda pound but mostly control guy " I pick Fitch. He is the best at it. I wish Fitch would spend more time on his subs. If he really puts in the effort he could be a submission machine. He just needs a little more Killer in him IMHO
by Gi_choke on Aug 9, 2010 4:46 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
"Sonnen had Anderson on the ground for 23 mins never attempted to finish the fight"
And Jon Fitch does….what?
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
about the same thing
only he doesn’t get subbed or hit while he is doing it. Plus he is young enough where he can still improve.
wow boy did i have that fucked up
thought he was still in his 20’s. disregard.
So he has like 2 years to become a submission machine or knock out artist…… well umm…. you know…… at least he has top control?
You can't just acquire power over night
Fitch is a finished product and this is the only way he wins.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
power i agree with
Jiu Jitsu is instinct and Intellect . I hope he can sharpen his.
Sonnen > Fitch
Guida > Fitch
I am a big Jon Fitch fan, but the fact is he’s boring. Simple.
Fans will pay money to see Chael Sonnen fight. The same thing with Clay Guida. You mention Jon Fitch. He is respected but no one wants to pay money to see him fight.
Clay Guida has also been in two of the greatest fights in UFC history (Huerta and Sanchez)
If Guida had KO power he’d be a top 5 lightweight.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
"If Guida had KO power he’d be a top 5 lightweight"
With his tyrannosaurus rex arms and complete lack of striking this still wouldn’t happen.
thats all i can hope for in life
to have Nick approve of my messages
It’s not as simplistic as “he doesnt finish”. You dont have to finish to be exciting. He nullifies his opponent but doesnt do anything with it. It’s the same thing as a great striker running around the cage jabbing his way to victory. Nobody gives a shit.
The guy who would of taken him out of the title picture was Koscheck but he doesnt want to fight Josh. He wouldnt be able to grab and pray Josh.
So it looks like Fitch will grab and pray up to GSP and then get his shit pushed in then rinse and repeat until he gets too old.
by mmalogic on Aug 9, 2010 4:48 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Clay Guida rarely finishes
But that guy always makes it a fun fight. Opposite end of the wrestler spectrum.
I totally disagree. I have no idea why people like Clay Guida (other than the Tyson Griffin match, which was just crazy). Almost all of his victories are boring as fuck. You know why Sanchez/Guida was exciting? Because Sanchez was beating the shit out of Guida.
...like young thieves in a glowing orchard, loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing.
- C. McCarthy
by crazybones on Aug 9, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Guida was beating up Huerta before the RNC.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
i totally agree w/ you ...
but even if that is the rinse and repeat of his career doesn’t he deserve to get hiss ass kicked each time? I mean if he loses to GSP again and then goes 5/6/7-0 again shouldn’t he given the opportunity each and every time?
by F'n Clownshoes on Aug 9, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, he certainly deserves another title shot. Im talking about him from a stimulating stand point.
Diego Sanchez is never in a boring fight. His most boring fight was against Fitch. Amazingly that was one of Jon’s most stimulating fights.
As an athlete you have to respect his accomplishments but Jon Fitch is a cancer .
People talk about Jake Shields being boring… Jon Fitch is in a completely different stratosphere.
If we’re talking inception… A Jon Fitch fight is a dream within a dream within a dream within a dream… ad infinitum. Shit is so strong you cant wake up.
understood.
I just can’t get past this quasi-athlete w/ “no natural talent” doing so well. I think I am a glutton for punishment. I hate that he can’t finish but I will watch him until he does or he gets man-handled/ top controlled/ smothered.
by F'n Clownshoes on Aug 9, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really
He is 1-0 against GSP. If he ends up 2-0 against GSP, like Franklin vs Silva, then that should end the rematch talk.
"I'd love to be a Cheick Kongo looking brother that could actually move and do a lot of funky stuff - Jiu Jitsu, takedowns, kicks and stuff." - Jon Jones.
"This is the internet: you either have soul-stopping power or you’re a pillow-fisted pansy. There is no middle ground." - woomikee
Hmm... I just searched "Bloody Elbow" on Yahoo
… and The Sponsored link was for :
Bloody Babies
everydayhealth.com Learn Causes, Symptoms, Treatment and Prevention on Any Health Issue.
WTF? Are blood covered babies that common?
by truck on Aug 9, 2010 4:49 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Two things Fitch needs to do in his fight game to get fans on the hype train:
Spinning Elbows
German Suplex
lol
That would require a whole set of prerequisites.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 9, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
German suplex's
shouldn’t be hard to incorperate.
by F'n Clownshoes on Aug 9, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought about that right after.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 9, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
how many times did Fitch have Alves back while crouching. I’m sure a wrestler of his prowess can pop his hips a drop homeboy on his dome.
by F'n Clownshoes on Aug 9, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
If he would have done it
we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion right now. Thank God he chose not to.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 9, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
no shit.
very true, but just once I would like to see him put the energy he uses in controlling opponents whole body and perhaps just maybe concentrate on one limb
by F'n Clownshoes on Aug 9, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I bet if he tried to finish someone, he could. He might even look a little athletic doing it.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 9, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
GSP took Fitch down 6 seconds into their last fight
I’m watching it now and just observing any way Fitch can win against GSP.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
Magic?
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 9, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I met a gypsy downtown once…
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 9, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Ether on the gloves
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton
by donkeypunch on Aug 9, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Joe Silva needs to match up Jon Fitch with a wrestler
I think Mike Pierce could beat Fitch in a rematch. Or maybe even Matt Hughes. UFC only hope is for someone to beat Fitch and knock him down the totem pole.
The most awesome scernario possible:
They scrap TUF and make him fight Kos.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 9, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I like watching Jon Fitch fight. Y’all be crazy.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
by Mike Fagan on Aug 9, 2010 5:03 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I will always watch.
I won’t call him exciting though and I do acknowledge that he is poison to casual fans. When I am hosting some people use his fights as “piss and get a drink” or “go smoke a ciggy and / or some wacky tabacky” time.
Agreed
I just can’t get past this quasi-athlete w/ "no natural talent" doing so well. I think I am a glutton for punishment. I hate that he can’t finish but I will watch him until he does or he gets man-handled/ top controlled/ smothered. (i posted this earlier)
by F'n Clownshoes on Aug 9, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
If all MMA fighters fought like Jon Fitch i would not be a fan of the sport.
Luckily that’s not the case.His last 3 or 4 fights have bored the snot out of me.
Honestly,we watch the UFC shows late on over here in the UK (3am start time) and you have to hope that Fitch is on last or there’s a 90% chance you are gonna go to sleep…..unlike Fitches opponents.
by Matt Mosley on Aug 9, 2010 5:08 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
YES!
So many times I’ve been put to sleep by Fitch in the middle of good PPVs and woken up just after the main event or in the middle of a match two fights down the card. He ruins the overall experience and you end up not feeling a part of it when it happened live.
One thing I really can’t stand about MMA is that fighters are forced to find a medium between being effective and being entertaining. It seems like people only want to see two brawlers beat on each other for 3 rounds. Is Jon Fitch exciting? No, but he’s an effective fighter who definitely deserving of another shot.
→↓↘P
by Dr. Octagon on Aug 9, 2010 5:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Dr. Octagon
I totally agree w/ you. It is a complete dichotomy. Chris Leben has said on a few occasions that currently MMA is on the fence between Boxing and pro wrestling as far as entertaining is considered.
On a side note. Is your screen name a Kool Keith reference?
by F'n Clownshoes on Aug 9, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
i figured it was a little bit o’ both.
by F'n Clownshoes on Aug 9, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d like to see him fight at 185. He has a realistic path to victory at 185. He cannot beat Georges St. Pierre.
It’s one thing to lose via stoppage—sometimes that leaves certain questions open. But brutal 50-43 asskicking leaves no questions unanswered.
In my opinion, they should do Silva-Sonnen and Fitch-Belfort to set up the next contender.
not opposed to this at all
would Dana even entertain this idea. What about Okami?
by F'n Clownshoes on Aug 9, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
The #2 guy should always get the title shot.
Fitch put himself in position with a string a important wins and deserves a rematch with GSP.
Though, it sure would be nice if he could remember how to keep his work-rate up. Just keep doing stuff, like GSP and Chael, even if it won’t necessarily result in a finish.
I specializes in grammar fail.
Exception - perennial second best
The exception to this rule should be when the second-best guy is 2-0 or even 3-0 against the champion. Franklin is 2-0 against Silva, for example, and at that point no one wants to see a third bout.
"I'd love to be a Cheick Kongo looking brother that could actually move and do a lot of funky stuff - Jiu Jitsu, takedowns, kicks and stuff." - Jon Jones.
"This is the internet: you either have soul-stopping power or you’re a pillow-fisted pansy. There is no middle ground." - woomikee
If Rich Franklin had stayed at 185 and continued to beat non-Silva opponents until he was ranked #2 again, then he absolutely should have been given a 3rd shot at Anderson.
I don’t care what people want to see when it comes to title shots. Whoever deserves it most should get the shot.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Aug 9, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Err, sorry. Make that a 2nd shot at Anderson. First fight between the two was Anderson challenging Franklin.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Aug 9, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
If Rich Franklin had stayed at 185 and continued to beat non-Silva opponents until he was ranked #2 again, then he absolutely should have been given a 3rd shot at Anderson.
Yeah,costhat would sell PPV’s.
Give Dana a call,he needs you on the team.
I don’t care about PPV sales when it comes to title shots. Not sure why anyone who considers MMA to be a sport should either. The UFC’s bottom line should not count for more than the integrity of the sport. Otherwise, we’re all just watching a glorified version of WWE programming.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Aug 9, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I just want to see good,competitve fights.
Silva v Franklin 3 would be much the same as the first two,if not worse for Franklin.
As far as Fitch goes,i admit i prefer watching the stikers in MMA but i appreciate the top BJJ guys like Werdum,the Nogs.Penn,etc and i like watching wrestlers like Sonnen,Couture and Henderson.
But none of them are boring,imo,Fitch is.
I don’t care about PPV sales when it comes to title shots.
Obviously not but then you are not trying to run a fighting business.
The UFC are not gonna make fights that aren’t going to sell.
Strikeforce are quite good at that though. :)
this is a troublesome comment. The UFC is easily capable of building strong cards around title fights that are not big sellers. Silva does NOT sell PPV’s very well to my understanding. This past card was stacked for that very reason.
by F'n Clownshoes on Aug 9, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
If he beats Shields or Koscheck or whoever then yeah,maybe Fitch deserves that title shot.
But he got totally and utterly shut out by GSP the first time and from beating a guy who was obviously weight drained (Alves) not long after hardly doing enough to beat Mike Pierce (who’s he again?) when he has aready shown he can’t beat St Pierre does not warrant a title shot,imo.
He’s 12-1 in the UFC, and just beat the #3 welterweight in the world.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 9, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I realise that.
But Jon Fitch has a ridiculous beard and general douchey look,therefore he does not deserve a title shot.
by Matt Mosley on Aug 9, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I appreciate your honesty.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 9, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
it was a figuritive troubling ... your points are sound.
i just don’t think the UFC needs to concern itself on PPV buys for title fight cards. if they are (which as business men i am sure they are) they can stack the card w/ entertaining fights and fights w/ title implications.
by F'n Clownshoes on Aug 9, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
And i’m sure they would do that and have done it plenty times before.
DW knows which guys deserve the shot and Fitch will get his 2nd chance i reckon.
w/ Kampmann losing not to long ago to Daley and w/ Shields just coming in, um, i’m just not sure either are worthy yet. my opinion can easily change depending on either of these guys performances against one another.
by F'n Clownshoes on Aug 9, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Franklin is 2-0? Maybe in a sleeping contest.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
ha!
i’m fairly certain he meant 0-2. how would have Franklin done against Saturdays Silva?
by F'n Clownshoes on Aug 9, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Fitch and here is why.
If I ever had the chance to fight in the UFC I would be John Fitch. I didnt win a BJJ tourny when I was 12, not a 6 time all universe kick boxing champ, cant KO someone with a stare and not explosive.
If Fitch can do it, someone like me with the time, training and some serious wrastlin could do it too.
I really think the number 2 argument is a little less powerful in MMA where the title is only defended a few times a year and you have a sport based on paying for content. There’s a degree to which providing new fights is more important than putting on 1 vs. 2, especially when 1 vs. 2 already happened and it wasn’t even close.
Then it’s at the risk of MMA being more sports entertainment than pure sport. And the question becomes which should fans prefer?
Imagine if the NFL had told the Buffalo Bills, on their third of four consecutive attempts at winning the Super Bowl, that they would not be allowed to play in the championship game because people were tired of watching them. We’d think the NFL was a scripted, fraudulent joke of a league.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Aug 9, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 9, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
This meme, while having some validity, is tired...
Why not approach it from a different angle… why is the UFC not doing more to educate the casual fan as to the nuances of mma in all its different aspects?
At the bar I watched the fight, the majority of people found the fight entertaining for the most part. Why is there a call, even from veteran fans and writers, to dumb down the sport. I think if the UFC put out some educational spots about wrestling and bjj, that would go along way in staving off the “boring” categorization.
You don't like that meme, I don't like this one
You can like ground fighting and not like Jon Fitch. There are plenty of wrestlers and BJJ guys who work for finishes against tough opponents, rather than laying in guard, staying busy, scoring points, and never doing any real damage. Heck, Chael Sonnen put on a clinic in that approach just the other night. I’m more than a casual MMA fan (if my activity here is any indication) and I still find Fitch absolutely awful to watch.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
You absolutely give Fitch the next title shot, because you’re going to learn everything you need to know about him and his career.
If GSP wins and then beats Fitch again, he cements his status as the best WW never to win a title, and somebody who just couldn’t elevate his game when he absolutely had to.
If Kos wins and Fitch refuses to fight him, you learn that he never really had it in him to be the champion.
The Tim Duncan comparison is way off, though. He’s not Duncan, he’s Karl Malone.
Resident Capologist
Two seperate questions
Does Fitch deserve a title shot? Yes, undoubtedly.
Do I want to see him in a title fight? No. Not particularly.
Honestly, if I never see another Fitch fight, I won’t feel too bad about it. The promotion has to do what’s right, but I’m not buying PPVs that involve that guy, unless, like on Saturday night, they are stacked with other fights I want to see.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
Give him a shot he's cute
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 9, 2010 6:09 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Insanely cute
but where the fuck did he get a sloth from and why is he walking on the beach with it. Nevermind. I know why he’s on the beach with it. But seriously, where the fuck fuck did he get that?
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 9, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
The more people boo Fitch, the more I root for the guy. The Fitch/GSP fight was by far the best of Georges title defenses, and Jon has earned a rematch. It’s just hard to imagine Fitch sitting out until early next year, waiting for a fight.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Aug 9, 2010 6:49 PM EDT reply actions
Doesn't his style make anyone else want to see him get smashed?
I don’t mean like GSP’s domination of him, I mean like KTFO. I cannot fight this urge, it is just instinct. I understand that his record is awesome and he has beat some of the world’s best at 170, but there is something about a guy who simply cannot finish that makes me want to see him get finished.
I respect him as a fighter but he is boring to the point that I don’t want to read the comment section.
by seanerk88 on Aug 10, 2010 12:28 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
jon fitch
One must respect fitch for winning so many fights in the ufc,but i for one wouldn’t want to see fitch fight for the title again.
by TERRENCEFROMSOUTHEAST on Aug 10, 2010 7:32 AM EDT reply actions
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