UFC 117: Chael Sonnen Re-Teaches the Lesson We Already Knew: Anderson Silva Can't Wrestle
by Michael Rome on Aug 8, 2010 9:15 AM EDT
in MMA News
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It's been quite a while since Anderson Silva fought a wrestler. As Sonnen took Silva down again and again with shots he did not bother to set up, I was not surprised in the least. Anderson Silva has never been difficult to take down. It's been a long time since we've seen him on his back because he's been fighting a steady diet of men without wrestling credentials, but wrestlers have never had a hard time finding Anderson Silva in the cage.
Perhaps the most stunning thing about tonight's main event was Anderson's complete inability to defend himself from guard for the better part of four and a half rounds. His primary strategy was to try to stall for a standup, and when that didn't work, he had no answers...until round 5, when he pulled off one of the greatest comeback wins in UFC history.
There's a false belief that spending hours training a skill will necessarily make someone proficient in that skill. The truth is that no amount of training would have prepared Anderson Silva to deal with Chael Sonnen's wrestling. He's not a very good wrestler, and it's far too late for him to get up to speed.
I've long been in the minority amongst MMA writers and fans in my belief that Georges St. Pierre would defeat Anderson Silva. Tonight further cemented what I already believed: GSP would take Anderson Silva down at will, and unlike Chael Sonnen, he has the top game to take a dominating decision (at worst).
I believe Anderson will defeat Chael Sonnen in a rematch the same way he won tonight: by submission. No amount of submission defense training over the next few months will plug the holes in Sonnen's jiu-jitsu game, and in a 5 round fight the odds are really stacked against him.
If Anderson Silva wins a rematch against Chael Sonnen and Georges St. Pierre defeats Josh Koscheck, it's time to make that fight happen. The idea that it would be a blowout was always patently absurd, but after tonight it's laughable. It would be a competitive fight between the best fighters in the world, which is exactly the kind of fight the UFC should be promoting.
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I like that the more Silva shows weakneses the more people are wanting him to fight GSP. It’s kind of sinusoidal trend, he knocks someone out and GSP is too small, he has a questionable performance, GSP has a green light.
I would like to see that fight nonetheless.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 8, 2010 3:39 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
valid points. If Anderson knocked out Chael in 30 seconds, people would be writing about how GSP would have zero chance to get a takedown.
Regardless, I’d love to see.
After…..Chael, and Vitor.
For whatever reason, when Anderson destroys someone who stands with him, people take that as proof GSP is too small. Sonnen was literally taking him down with shots from the outside with no setup. For Chael Sonnen standards, they were not even power doubles.
yea and we have further proof that sonnen cant grapple with a blackbelt
andy may not be able to defend a takedown but its obvious that sonnen cant defend a sub…
hes 4-4 in the ufc…ALL 4 losses have been by sub….
yea hes a great grappler…until hes on the ground with a black belt….
the guy never worked to advance his position, he never worked to get in side mount, to full mount….to take andy’s back….except a couple times when andy would try to stand up but that was only a few seconds and andy easily was able to get back to his back…
sonnen was happy to stay in silva’s guard….and he guy hasnt finished a fight in 3 years….you can only be successful for so long with a black belt without working to advance your position before you’re eventually gonna get caught in a sub…
silva, maia, horn, babalu, filho…what do they have in common? they’re black belts
the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...
Hi.
Jeremy Horn doesn’t have a BJJ Blackbelt, but both Nate Marquardt & Dan Miller do.
thanks.
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 8, 2010 7:04 AM EDT up reply actions
sorry angela, my bad, lot to drink at the bar tonight...doesnt change the fact that 7 of his 11 losses are by sub
dude has no sub defense….grab a limb and dude starts burping the mat baby
the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...
by HellaHectic on Aug 8, 2010 7:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Like Hughes, and Barnett (if I remember correctly), they just focus more on (catch) wrestling.
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 8, 2010 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention
black belts are the most overrated thing in MMA.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
I know, it was just a general thought, nothing personal :)
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 8, 2010 3:45 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly
people are fickle as hell especially MMA fans. They went from booing the crap out of Sonnen then cheering for him in Oakland.
by GoldenSt8OfMind on Aug 8, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm curious about the rib injury
before I lay it on TOO too thick.
But yea, I agree with the gist of this article
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
i agree
gsp would dominate
always said it and always will
anderson’s the best striker ever in mma and if you feed him people who can’t take him out of that element then he’ll win every single time
however a powerhouse wrestler who has no intentions of striking with him will always and forever give him problems
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 8, 2010 3:40 AM EDT reply actions
“anderson’s the best striker ever in mma . . .”
Anderson was just solidly outstruck on his feet by Sonnen, including in the first round when Silva was still fresh. It’s time to start adding to this, “but he’s not the best anymore.”
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Aug 8, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
that was weird that he was outstruck
Either Silva suddenly got Old which i doubt or he really had a rib injury prior to the fight
by GoldenSt8OfMind on Aug 8, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
He was letting Sonnen hit him.
He won all the exchanges after the first round when he stopped fucking around. That was after he aggravated the rib injury.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
It really appeared as if Silva was letting Chael tag him,
maybe just to discourage him?
A couple times Chael would land a nice punch, then Anderson would drop his hands let Chael hit him. The other thing, I don’t think he even cared about getting hit.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 8, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know how GSP would handle 185 though
by GoldenSt8OfMind on Aug 8, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Let’s not be so quick to dismiss Sonnen again, regardless of the many myths said about Chael he is very smart and is probably already plotting how he’s going to finish what he started at UFC 117.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
not until he learns how to finish a fight...
the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...
Isn't that exactly what he just said...?
“plotting how he’s going to finish…”
“not until he learns how to finish…”
imjussayin
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
'Finishing a fight' has to fall under 'finish what he started'
Just don’t see how it doesn’t, personally.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Chael is awesome at finishing fights, as soon as he taps they’re finished.
by ufc4 on Aug 8, 2010 9:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
He is also awesome taking down and dominating the guy many predicted he wasn’t even good enough to give a challenge too.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
by Nightwhistler on Aug 8, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Chael would win in a rematch
If he had so many holes in submission defense, why did Silva wait until 1:30 to go to actually submit. I’ve always thought GSP would beat him based on styles. Dominant wrestling dominates fights.
Thoughts? "I have none. If there are any other developments, we will let you know." Charger GM - AJ Smith.
by bringbackbuddytrees on Aug 8, 2010 3:41 AM EDT reply actions
If he had so many holes in submission defense, why did Silva wait until 1:30 to go to actually submit
who cares how long it took? the fact is that he still got submitted…
if andy had ko’d him instead you wouldnt have said "if andy is such a good ko artist then why did he wait till 1:30 to actually ko him?
the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...
I say Silva wins again in a rematch. They should matchup Silva with wrestlers only now until he fights Chael again
by GoldenSt8OfMind on Aug 8, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Totally agree with you
I like how Dana likes to say the UFC is above boxing because in the UFC the best fighters fight each other. Dana has done a really good job of distracting the Public by setting up title matches for GSP and Silva so far in advance. Sadly I doubt many fans will clamor for this fight. I want it to happen before Silva or GSP takes a loss or retires
"I have to carry out another fine moment before I die."
-Tatsuya Kawajiri-
and gsp wouldn’t have gotten caught in that triangle
he never would have even come close to landing it
but chaels ground and pound is old school ground and pound
while gsp’s ground and pound is much more conservative
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 8, 2010 3:42 AM EDT reply actions
I think he has demonstrably better ground and pound, guard passing, and jiu jitsu. He is a far better top game player.
naw man. the ground and pound we saw from chael was relentless and that’s what it takes to avoid the stand up
every time it gets stood up a wrestlers chances of getting caught trying to take it back down go up
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 8, 2010 3:47 AM EDT up reply actions
hmmmm
i can’t say if i do or don’t recall it so i’ll hafta do some research and look it up real quick and find out
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 8, 2010 3:51 AM EDT up reply actions
If you have to do research
then you clearly don’t recall it. It may have happened but you definitely don’t recall it.
No way
Does Chael have better ground and pound then GSP.
Sure, Chael’s ground and pound in this fight was more effective then GSP’s in the Hardy fight or even the Alves fight perhaps, but in both of those fights it was clearly Georges’ priority to get the submission.
That doesn’t mean we should forget the rest of GSP’s resume, lest we look foolish.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis
me either
but he still wouldn’t be as active as Sonnen though
by GoldenSt8OfMind on Aug 8, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
and
chaels better at holding a guy down than gsp is
gsp would have probably gotten stood up several times because of andersons stall and stand up shit
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 8, 2010 3:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve seen a lot of Anderson Silva fights. Where he gets taken down, he usually stays on his back for the duration of the round. He’s not particularly adept at getting up off his back. What he normally does is lock in a body triangle and stifle damage.
That’s been his MO since he was fighting Otsuka back in Pride.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Aug 8, 2010 3:59 AM EDT up reply actions
GSP’s ground and pound managed to give BJ a concussion. It’s pretty bad ass when he’s being aggressive. Against Silva, I would say it’s very likely that GSP would quickly pass, move to mount and make Silva’s life much more terrible than Chael made it.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Aug 8, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's the thing
I don’t necessarily disagree with everything you said, but I think Anderson actually does have decent wrestling. The switch he pulled on Marquardt, the counter- double leg he landed on Cote, the way he thoroughly stuffed Maia & Leites (who, despite being discredited afterwards, were thought to have serviceable if not above- average wrestling skills- Demian in particular, who was seen as having excellent ability to get the fight to the mat, by any means necessary), the way he stuffed Hendo in the 2’nd round of their title unification bout.
It’s just that when Sonnen’s on his game, he makes decent to above average wrestlers look terrible. Nate the great by no means has terrible wrestling, but Chael ran through him. Paulo Filho is a fucking bull in the clinch and Sonnen took him down at will. Anderson has shown improved wrestling skills, but again- Chael’s wrestling is on another level; we all knew Chael would be able to take Andy down repeatedly, but we just figured he would batter him on the feet or catch him with a sub.
Xtreme Couture (Vegas) & The Hit Pit (Spokane WA) REPRESENT
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
His wrestling is good enough against fighters with no wrestling credentials, or fighters with wrestling credentials that like to kickbox. Against a great wrestler looking to take him down, he has no answers.
Let’s be honest here: Sonnen did not have to fake jabs to shoot. He was just shooting. Silva knew what was coming and still really could not stop it.
When Sonnen fought Okami, his true wrestling ability was on display. Okami had great defense against the double at one point, and Chael transitioned to a knee tap to get him down. He never went there tonight, nor did he have to.
after the first round though Anderson was committing to his punches and kicks a lot more then I would have recommended I think this definitely had something to do with it
I think it’s clear that Anderson knew he wouldn’t be able to stop the takedowns and was trying to back Sonnen off with power shots.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Aug 8, 2010 4:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t AS take Sonnen down at one point?
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 8, 2010 4:05 AM EDT up reply actions
He stuffed a takedown but Sonnen pulled a reversal.
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
yea that was andy's dumbest decision of the night to get on top of sonnen, he should have stood up immediately...instead he got reversed and ended up on his back again...and you could see the look on his face that said:
“shit, not again”
the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...
“Against a great wrestler looking to take him down, he has no answers”
Who Does?
Nope
by NaciremaDream on Aug 8, 2010 5:49 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s clearly not a bad offensive wrestler and is actually quite good, but his defensive wrestling is porous. I think it is relevant to draw that distinction here.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Aug 8, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
so much for munoz helping silva out with wrestling. we all saw how good munoz’s kills were against okami
Really liked the way he countered Silva when he got caught with that elbow.
He went down, Silva got on top and Sonnen just powered through Silva to get on top.
If I wake up tomorrow and see that the world has ended, then that means God has finally granted my prayers.
GO Armageddon!!!
Yep, I knew as soon as Silva took top position he would get reversed. Was idiotic to go down to the ground with him.
I would have been screaming at my screen had it not been 5:45am at that point. He had him hurt and was working him on the feet; just STAND UP.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Aug 8, 2010 4:01 AM EDT up reply actions
double ^ this
the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...
Would I been crazy to suggest?
that beating Anderson Silva is well within the capabilities of one Jake Shields?
by MattParker117 on Aug 8, 2010 4:01 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I was always the guy that said GSP would beat Silva
and got laughed at. I agree that this proformance proves that GSP IMO would beat Silva easily.
"Your not gonna jab and shoulder roll your way away from Brock Lesnar; He is gonna fuck you." - Joe 'High as Fuck' Rogan
Should we be thanking Jon Fitch?
Would him winning makes a Anderson/GSP fight closer to reality? Or has the UFC promotional machine and/or GSP popularity reached a point that a rematch with a guy who received a one-sided beatdown would still do a lot of buys?
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
If Shields...
destroys Kampman he should get the next title shot. Fitch looks the same as he did when he first fought GSP. I like Fitch and he will be the most dominate #2 Welterweight ever.
We should get a Hughes/Alves rematch. Not like it would be any different than the first time but at least it would remind people not to put Hughes back into title contention conversations.
I'm with ya on...
Koscheck/Fitch but not Hallman/Hughes. That would be a step back for Matt. It would be cool for Matt to be able to avenge the losses. But I think we all know that Matt would win that third fight.
Good point.
Any doubt about GSP being too small to take on Anderson is pointless now. Anderson looked like a fish out of water on the ground tonight. I could not believe it. I was waiting for him to do what he always does and get out of vulnerable spots and turn it on. It did not happen the entire fight.
I have no clue how Sonnen got the better of Anderson striking on the feet tonight. It’s like the fucking Twilight Zone. It does not make any sense. Give him the rematch and then on to GSP.
GSP probably finishes Silva in a five round fight. Chael Sonnen hurt Silva pretty bad on the ground a few times, and for crying out loud, he rocked him on the feet. I hate to think what GSP would to to this man on the mat.
Why anyone would think that GSP would somehow be unable to get a power double on Anderson, advance straight to mount, and put his elbow right through his face is beyond me. Anderson Silva offers absolutley nothing to GSP in terms of defensive wrestling or offense on the ground.
Check out my MMA highlight videos!
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If you’re extrapolating Sonnen’s performance on GSP, the wouldn’t it be fair to also mention Dan Hardy? He’s a Bravo purple belt and didn’t have a bump on his after that fight…
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 8, 2010 4:44 AM EDT up reply actions
*then
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 8, 2010 4:44 AM EDT up reply actions
GSP fights to the level of his competition. Against guys he feels threatened by, he goes out there and puts a whoopin on them. See Penn, Fitch, Serra. Other guys, not so much. Obviously, GSP would go in there with a sense of urgency against Anderson Silva. He’d know he couldn’t play around and just play a safe top position game with him. He’d have to go in and beat him up and work for the finish. You want to get Silva out of the cage as quick as possible. If you allow him to stick around in there, you risk ending up like Sonnen.
Check out my MMA highlight videos!
http://www.dailymotion.com/WheelchairBandit
I like your theory: GSP doesn’t take risk against lesser opponents because he doesn’t want to make a mistake and lose, but he takes risk against dangerous opponents because playing it safe would mean…taking a risk.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 8, 2010 5:44 AM EDT up reply actions
There’s a lot more danger for GSP being in the cage with a fighter like BJ Penn than Dan Hardy. BJ Penn is extremely dangerous and you’re courting disaster every minute you’re in there with that guy. Dan Hardy? Not so much.
Against a guy like Penn, GSP is pretty much forced to go out there and be as offensive as possible and try to put him away. Against a guy like Hardy, he can do pretty much whatever he pleases. There’s a big difference when you fight a guy who you feel legitmatley challenged by, and a guy you feel is just another opponent. GSP kicked the bejesus out of Serra, Penn and Fitch because he felt threatened by them. They pushed him to another level. If you don’t think Anderson Silva would inspire GSP to greatness, I just don’t know what to tell you. Every time this guy has gone up against a truely great fighter, he’s beat the dog crap out of them. Just blown their doors off. He takes the night off against Dan Hardy, and now people think he wouldn’t be able to beat me up apparantly.
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You sound like Sir David Attenborough. Hiding in the bushes of Canada, exploring GSP's habits.
And since you got so deep into GSP’s…mind…I don’t see a reason for bringing you to light :)
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 8, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
But seriously, I would favour GSP if they would meet, but to say with such ease that GSP would finish him is silly.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 8, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
GSP just doesn't take risks. He said this in an interview with MMAJunkie recently. He always wants odds to be strongly in his favour with anything he does.
I’m guessing he would strike with Fitch to begin with.
Yeah, tha was basically my point. He repeats it all the time that he see a fight as a mathematical problem and wants the odds to be in his favour.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 8, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
to be fair, Chael did admit in the presser that he felt Anderson’s prefight rib injury did significantly effect Anderson’s performance
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com and MMAFighting.com, mma enthusiast
That might have effected his ability to defend a takedown…..but how about his ability to take a punch? This man had never been hurt by a punch in his entire career. He had taken a couple of clean power shots on the feet from Dan Henderson and never changed the expression on his face. Now he’s getting dropped by Chael Sonnen? A guy with basically no standup ability and who’s never hurt anybody on the feet?
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Anyone can get hurt by a shot that lands correctly.
I just really don’t think he has an answer for St. Pierre’s wrestling game. I do think he has the ability to knock GSP out, but I don’t think it is very likely.
Strength doesn’t help a whole lot when your opponent is a far superior wrestler. When GSP hits a power double or a knee tap on Anderson, it’s not like he can use superior strength to just nullify that. You have to have the proper wrestling technique to do so, which Anderson doesn’t have. GSP takes down VERY good wrestlers with ease. He wouldn’t break a sweat putting Anderson on his back.
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Alves is stronger than Fitch.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
I think that he played fool at that point (being rocked). Looked like he wanted to clown, play possum, I don’t knowbut it didn’t look credible. I have to rewatch that fight.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 8, 2010 4:48 AM EDT up reply actions
The initial shot did rock him enough, but then it seemed like he was just dropping his hands and letting Sonnen hit him which of course resulted in Rogan and Goldie yelling “he got rocked again!” about fifty times. I also don’t care for how that success in round one meant Chael beat Anderson standing for the whole fight.
Anyway I think this ass kicking will be good for Anderson, put things into perspective a little.
2010 Summer of Side Boob.
Yeah, he needed to be pushed. Although I don’t know what it’s like to smash people with ease, I guess it can affect you in a bad way.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 8, 2010 6:57 AM EDT up reply actions
This article is written incompetently
Being someone who is a journalist, it’s articles that are written like this that make me sick. It carries with it an obvious bias, and instead of taking the opportunity to make an article about the extraordinary wrestling ability of Chael Sonnen, and making the argument of how close a GSP/Silva superfight could be, Rome instead decides to write an article that demeans the skills of an incredible fighter, does not give credit to Chael’s incredible wrestling ability, and does nothing to enhance the idea of a superfight to fans of the sport.
Mr. Rome, I have fired people from the site I work for for posting garbage like this, and it has no business in a major MMA website, and on top of all that shows that you have no credibility or integrity as a journalist. Hopefully Luke Thomas does the right thing and reprimands you for such terrible writing.
Let me add one more thing: The quality of this article is comparable to some of the worst topics started at Sherdog.com’s forums. It may even be worse.
by CynicalMarcus on Aug 8, 2010 5:32 AM EDT up reply actions
What a pathetic showing by CynicalMarcus, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Good grief that was the biggest bloated ego trip crap I have read in a comments section in a long time. Your silly little rant about this opinion piece is just pathetic and the fact that you try to present yourself as some kind of “journalist” while writing that is an embarassment to everyone who made it through English 101 in college. Hopefully Luke Thomas will do the right thing and ban you so we don’t have to listen to you whine about silly crap or make yourself look like a pompus self-righteous asshole anymore.
by who me on Aug 8, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Since I know this guy, and it's an accurate description, rec.
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
The fact that you complain about “bias” on a website dedicated to presenting opinionated articles that clearly take a stance speaks volumes about your limited intellectual capacity.
I’m sorry I didn’t write about what you wanted, or what you feel is appropriate for the sport. It’s not my job to write congratulatory articles after events that enhances concepts to fans of the sport.
P.S. I’m not a journalist, and given the fact that you wrote the words “being someone who is a journalist,” it’s hard to believe you are either. Here’s a tip: when you claim to be a journalist in a website comment, try to write above a junior high school level.
by Michael Rome on Aug 8, 2010 5:43 AM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Coming from you, Rome, that means less than nothing. When it comes right down to it, you didn’t even read what I wrote. The fact of the matter is simple: It’s not whether or not you wrote what I wanted. It’s whether or not you wrote what needed to be said in the situation. Instead of being an intelligent writer and breaking down how Chael used his abilities to keep Anderson on the mat, and since you want to make an argument for Georges to defeat Anderson using this method, you could tie parallels to the two. In fact, there are probably dozens of ways that any intelligent writer could have simply written an article that was interesting to read, informative, and/or entertaining.
At the end of the day, taking a stance on an issue should be admired, and it’s important to stand up for what you believe in. However, coming across as someone who has GSP’s logo tattooed on his chest simply isn’t up to par with the several quality articles that this site provides the readers on a daily basis. You wrote a parallel to someone masturbating to a picture of Eva Menez on a bus while remarking the round shape of her backside.
However, in all of this, I feel sorry for your school, Berkley. Evidently their standards have sunk so low that they’ll let any simpleton into their school, judging by your admission.
by CynicalMarcus on Aug 8, 2010 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions
This was an opinion article. If you want breakdowns and the like read the other ten posts that went up here after the fight. They have a ton of front page posters for a reason. When someone wants an opinion, it’s here. When someone wants analysis, it’s here. You’ve clicked the wrong story, friend.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Keep grinding that ax, little champ. I’m sure someone will take you seriously someday.
by dribblebib on Aug 8, 2010 9:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ha ha… ha…. Ooooookay, skippy.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Aug 8, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Go back to Spoony's forum, Marcus. And once again, you are a blogger, not a fucking journalist.
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
"Being someone who is a journalist"
is a pretty clumsy construction, for somebody who is a journalist.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Aug 8, 2010 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
zing!
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Aug 8, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Anderson Silva has never been difficult to take down.
Yep. I’ve said the same thing myself heading into this fight. Honestly, the fight went pretty much as I expected – Chael taking Silva down and keeping him there. His best shot at beating Chael was always a lucky strike on Chael coming in for the takedown or submission off his back(which was always the most likely outcome considering Chael’s history of getting taped out and Silva’s underrated BJJ game).
Aside from “Silva’s underrated BJJ game” I agree. If anything, his BJJ seem largely overrated, especially defensively.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Authur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 8, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
And also teaches us
-that submissions from the bottom are the most amazing victories
-the triangle is the greatest move in martial arts
Very biased sounding of course, but come on. First Werdum/Fedor and now this. Two of the most incredible fight endings within weeks of each other, both done with the same move from the same position.
Something about those victories, the way they’re done, the drama of them, makes me lose my shit. Not like anything a knockout does to me. IT may just be that i’m a diehard BJJ fan, but I wonder if there’s anything chemical going on in the brain that makes it so much sweeter
What shocked me about the fight
was Chael’s effectiveness standing. He beat Anderson Silva to the punch in standing exchanges on several occasions. I figured he’d have a huge edge in wrestling, but I was sure that Silva would catch him with something nasty on his way in. Not only did Chael shrug off the shots that Silva managed to land, he was considerably more effective landing meaningful punches of his own at distance.
This is also what makes me think Silva was not at 100 percent. His head movement, which is the best in the sport by a fair margin, was nonexistent last night. He just stood there and took power punches from a guy whose standup is pretty rudimentary.
I don’t know if he’s in decline, or just wasn’t prepared for the level of effectiveness Chael displayed, but the Anderson Silva I saw fighting on his feet wasn’t the one we’re all used to seeing.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
I don’t think the injury effected anything. I think the most determining factor was that every time Sonnen hit him, he lost confidence. And Anderson Silva at heart, we all know is just a big ol’ baby. A great fighter.. a FANTASTIC fighter, but a baby nonetheless.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
A baby doesnt get his ass beat for 4+ rounds and still find a way to win.
Silva showed me tonight that he has way more heart than anyone has given him credit for.
by b2tharad on Aug 8, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Methinks you don't understand what context means.
I wasn’t implying Anderson Silva has the physical strength of a baby and the MMA wherewithal of a baby. He acts like a baby. He loses confidence. He pulled off the win tonight and he gets credit for me, but way to read far, far outside the lines here.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
I think he understood context just fine.
If Silva did have the mentality of a baby, then he would have been mentally broken at the fifth round and Chael would have been the new MW champion.
Not necessarily.
He cries and loses confidence. Sonnen handled him a golden opportunity, and like a greedy child he took it just like he should have. I am not taking ANYTHING away from him but Anderson Silva is a baby.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Lol, so because a guy gets sloppy in his BJJ defense(which Sonnen traditionally does), the other guys greedy for taking it? Come on man, this isn’t the first time there’s been a come from behind victory before. I know people are upset at the guy’s previous behavior in past fights, but he got the job done.
Huh? I said what he did was what he was supposed to do. It was a smart move. Jesus Christ people learn to read. “Took it just like he should have.”
He was the kid that asked too many times and got punished for it, but in the end got what he want.
Win or not, he’s still a baby I don’t see how people can disagree with that lol.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
You’re just inventing reasons to not like Anderson or something. You can’t say he “cried and lost confidence” when he was still in the fight trying to do something the whole time, and oh yeah…he didn’t at any point cry you silly billy. Coming into every round including the last he was still putting his hands up trying to hype the crowd despite getting his ass kicked and losing big time on the scorecards. You seem more confused by your own definition of a baby than anybody else when you’re trying to say that he folded when he was met with failure in something even though he didnt, there was never a part in this fight where Anderson looked like he was about to roll over and just let Chael win.
As far as the stand up goes another thing that proves you wrong is the fact that after the success Chael had against him he was still going after him on the feet. In fact this was the most aggressively sloppy Anderson that we’ve pretty much ever seen from the jump throughout the course of the whole fight. And really only the first round was a round where Chael did all that well standing, like a lot of other instances people are now blowing that up and acting like he was smashing Anderson throughout the whole fight, in every other round Anderson was still lighting him up.
“Win or not, he’s still a baby I don’t see how people can disagree with that lol.” I disagree with it and a lot of other people do, maybe because we’re not completely biased against him it helps to not be bothered by a undeserved negative outlook placed against him. Saying stuff like that after Anderson showed a level of heart nobody even expected him to have just goes to show that your opinion of him is already critically low in the first place.
2010 Summer of Side Boob.
by Fake Emcee on Aug 8, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hmm...
you know to say Anderson was lighting him up on the feet might have actually been an overstatement on my own part, but still everything else stands.
2010 Summer of Side Boob.
Ok. You can disagree with it friend.
Everyone here is so touchy lmao. We’re cool, bruva.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Huh? I said what he did was what he was supposed to do. It was a smart move. Jesus Christ people learn to read. "Took it just like he should have."
You’re right; people need to learn to read. Especially the ones who say stuff like this, “Sonnen handled him a golden opportunity, and like a greedy child he took it just like he should have” and then take umbrage when they got called on it just because I said, “Lol, so because a guy gets sloppy in his BJJ defense(which Sonnen traditionally does), the other guys greedy for taking it?”
Yes, friend, I acknowledges I said that. I don’t get what you’re taking issue with? He did what he should. He’s a baby. Lmao.
Seriously, Silva fans are fucking funny.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
And you seem kind of difficult to have a simple conversation with. You just kind of half-heartedly laugh off any attempt to actually delve into the issue or even address the merits of what you actually said. This isn’t about you going after Anderson, this is about your opinion and people simply disagreeing with it and stating why.
Again, not trying to go hard on you or anything but you are being pretty silly about this.
2010 Summer of Side Boob.
There is no issue man. I didn’t post to have this huge argument. All I’m saying is that he acts like a baby. I really don’t care enough to argue it. Arguing with MMA fans is one of the hardest fucking things to do on the planet – me included. It just never works, especially on this site.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Leaving aside the dominance of Chael’s take-down and top control game, there is no explanation for how he was consistently getting the better of Silva in the stand-up exchanges. He was consistently getting caught flush by punches that he should have slipped and countered. That’s what makes me wonder if something was wrong with him.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Aug 8, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
My theory is that Silva tried to impersonate Vachslav Datsik (the first guy to KO Arlovski), and failed just like Datsik :) If Datsik wasn’t in jail, they would make a good couple…
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 8, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
*Vacheslav (I’m typing on a big uncomfortable keyboard, it feels like walking on heels)
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 8, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Anderson is a character...
He does a lot of weird things. lol. Sometime so much that you cannot tell if he’s doing something to make a point, or if its a coincidence.
by Broke Lesnar on Aug 8, 2010 9:23 AM EDT reply actions
Hmmm...so where are all those guys
Who have spent the last couple of months explaining how little we knew or what idiots those of us who called this fight like it played out…?
And, FTR, GSP will have a considerably easier time than Sonnen did, except he gets the win – 30# (imaginary) difference in the cage or not…lol…
I just hope time and injury (or “injury,” whichever it is) diminish the collective memory so the chance to win big on GSP is still there, IF it ever happens…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Authur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 8, 2010 10:07 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
You called it
This is in response to your prediction for the fight (Chael would be winning and then do something stupid) although I feel justified in saying that the line was seriously mispriced even though I picked Chael.
I hate to say sound like the huge fanboy that I am when it comes to GSP, but GSP will “kill” Silva.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Aug 8, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Props for the call
(Shopenhauer’s name is still misspelled though:)
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 8, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
reply fail
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 8, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
How so?
Or did you mean I should misspell it “Shopenhauer” like you did?
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Authur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 8, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha, I failed big time. I meant first name, Arthur.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 8, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Doah!
Nice…for both of us…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 8, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think I called anyone an idiot (except maybe Chael)
But I fully admit that I was wrong about how this fight would play out. Chael showed me a lot that I frankly didn’t think he had. The standing exchanges were jaw dropping. I’m pleased it turned out the way it did, but I was definitely impressed/surprised by Chael’s effectiveness.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Aug 8, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
if only sonnen had good BJJ
i mean he should have try to pass the guard of silva or even try to submit him,but he didn’t
And he all know how notoriously bad is sub defense.
If he had good BJJ + dynamic striking
He would be more like GSP…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Authur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 8, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Oddly enough
1. Silva showed that he’s a very good offensive wrestler managing to take Chael down. His defensive wrestling still is mediocre. A fact some had forgotten because he fights in the weakest division in MMA and never fights in any wrestlers.
2. What Silva showed, besides an incredible heart and elite level cardio, was weakness in the stand up. He looked very sloppy when pressed and Chael was getting the better of the exchanges (until Andy hit him with an elbow in the fourth), landing the harder, cleaner, more effective blows (9 arm strikes standing for Andy to 14 for Chael). After this fight, I don’t see how anyone can hold he’s the best striker in MMA. He may have once been, but all strikers age, and age is not good for one’s reflexes and generally will erode your skills.
3. I have to say what a freaking submission. I badly, badly, badly wanted Silva to lose (since I had called for more or less this fight outcome for a long time, minus the wrestler’s losing via submission) and Silva pulled out the nogueira special. Great stuff.
4. The army of wrestlers at WW who presently have little chance of beating GSP but who are superior to Sonnen in spite of the weight difference, should seriously consider packing on some weight and moving up to MW while Silva’s still fighting (Askren, Hendricks and Kos).
5. Jake Shields should be screaming for a shot at Silva after this fight.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
I agree
Especially with #4 &5 which I too have been preaching (about Kos and Shields).
As for #2, I have to wonder how much of that might have been due to a probably monomania during his camp regarding grappling and TDD?
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Authur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 8, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Very possible regarding 2 but he’s been striking long enough, I would think, that striking should be so second nature to him, or at least so deeply ingrained, that on his worst day he shouldn’t lose a striking battle with Sonnen. Maybe Sonnen’s a lot better striker than everyone’s given him credit for.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Aug 8, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree…hope the Roy Jones comparisons I have seen a few people make aren’t already starting in reality…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Authur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 8, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't see silva winning a rematch...
Chael dominated last night, defended against silvas previous subs and in my mind showed he was the superior fighter. You could even see at times silva trying to dance but chael wouldn’t let him. As far as not putting his hooks in when he had his bak I didn’t see it as appropriate, he was too high up on silva with his control and it would have been bad news for him if he flubbed it.
Chael definitely became my new favorite middleweight, he proved he wasn’t just a gatekeeper getting fed to the wolves.
I knew Silva could be taken down
but didn’t know it was going to be THAT easy.
Then again he said he had a rib injury and Sonnen says he believed him because he felt like he took him down way too easy
by GoldenSt8OfMind on Aug 8, 2010 12:58 PM EDT reply actions
Good one, Rome.
100% agree with you here. I’ve always suspected GSP could win against Silva (he has the best chance), but last night cemented that position for me. If GSP continues to gain weight properly, I think if they fought at some catch-weight bout, he’d win. I also don’t see GSP getting triangled like Sonnen did. You have to figure Dana White’s opinion has changed somewhat on the superfight. After the Forrest fight, he felt Silva was too big. Well, last night might sway it back the other way. Regardless, if GSP gets past Kos, it’s a fight he’ll have to make. I think the public desire for this fight is going to reach a fevered pitch, beyond the calls for a Penn/GSP bout.
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