UFC 117: Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen Predictions
UFC 117: "Silva vs. Sonnen"
Saturday, August 7, 2010
Oracle Arena
Oakland, California
Main card:
Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen
Luke Thomas: It's just hard for me to see a way for Chael to win this. I won't rule it out, but it is sure as hell unlikely. He has to avoid being KO'd and submitted while doing more damage throughout the course of the fight. Best of luck, Chael, because you're going to need it. Silva by TKO.
Kid Nate: Some worry about Anderson's age and his physical conditioning. I'm more worried by his motivation and perversity. Here's hoping Sonnen is dangerous enough with his wrestling to force Silva to KO him quickly. Silva by KO.
Brent Brookhouse: It all comes down to if Sonnen can A) survive 5 full rounds and B) can win one of the first three rounds. If he can steal one of the first three then he can maybe take over four and five with his wrestling if he has managed to wear Silva down. The problem is, he's just not good enough at preventing submissions if he does get on top and not good enough at striking to hang when they're on the feet. Unless we see the Roy Jones Jr. style "got old overnight" situation this shouldn't really be that much of a contest. Anderson Silva by TKO, round 2.
Mike Fagan: Sonnen may land some early takedowns on Silva, but I just don't see it lasting. Sonnen's slow and he doesn't have the same power threat Dan Henderson did. Silva might toy with him a bit, but I expect a finish in this one. Anderson Silva by TKO, round 3.
Chris Nelson: Josh Gross said that Sonnen's trainer Robert Follis thinks Chael "has Anderson right where he wants him." Twenty-plus years of watching cartoons tells me that's what the bad guy always says just before the piano falls on his head. Silva via TKO, round two.
Nick Thomas: What is Sonnen's kryptonite? Submissions. I can't see Sonnen grinding Silva for 25 minutes without getting caught. Silva by submission.
Leland Roling: Sonnen's stand-up looked awful in pre-fight video, but he hasn't claimed he'll try to outstrike Silva. The problem, however, is that he really offers nothing on the feet, and I think Silva's length is going to be a real problem on the ground. In any case, I don't think Sonnen is going to have fun being picked apart on the feet early. Silva via KO.
Jonathan Snowden: I worry about a fighter like Anderson Silva. He reminds me quite a bit of boxer Roy Jones. Both men rely on a physical edge, hyper speed reflexes and reaction time that makes it look like their opponents are moving in slow motion. At some point, that kind of fighter is bound to fall of a cliff. When it happens, it won't be pretty. I hope we aren't there yet with the 35 year old Silva. Silva, KO, Round 2.
Ricardo Almeida vs. Matt Hughes
Luke Thomas: I don't think Hughes has either the power or explosion on his takedowns that he once did. More importantly, Almeida is strong at this weight, has some measure of striking skill and an active guard. I expect Almedia to get it done. Almedia by decision.
Kid Nate: I think Hughes has aged more than Almeida but it's hard to know those things. Almeida by submission.
Brent Brookhouse: Hughes is good enough at avoiding submissions and much better at wrestling. His striking is also a little bit underrated and I'd give him the slight edge if they stay standing. An Almeida win wouldn't be a shocker, but I think Hughes is a pretty safe pick. Matt Hughes by decision.
Mike Fagan: Ricardo Almeida is a lot like Matt Hughes, except with a better BJJ pedigree and no wrestling. Unfortunately, wrestling's going to be the main factor here. Matt Hughes by decision.
Chris Nelson: Almeida looked good against Matt Brown in his welterweight debut. Also, Almeida is not Renzo Gracie. Almeida via submission, round two.
Nick Thomas: I've actually been impressed with Almeida's wrestling I can actually see him winning a couple rounds by taking Hughes down With that, it's Almeida by decision.
Leland Roling: Tough fight to call, but I think Hughes is aging rapidly in the context of being competitive. He has the wrestling to nullify Almeida, but I think Almeida is going to control him with his frame off his back, something Serra could have used. Almeida via decision.
Jonathan Snowden: Let's be honest: neither man is the fighter he once was. Since Hughes started his decline from a higher perch, I'm on board with him here. Hughes, Decision.
Junior Dos Santos vs. Roy Nelson
Luke Thomas: It's hard for me to envision Nelson getting dos Santos to the floor and holding him there long enough to submit him. Again, I won't rule it out, but I don't find it likely. Dos Santos by KO.
Kid Nate: Not feeling good for Roy here. I think he'll make it a fight but I think it will be a one sided in Junior's favor. Dos Santos by TKO.
Brent Brookhouse: I'm not particularly sold on either guy. Nelson has suddenly picked up a reputation as a world beater despite being a guy who never really proved out anything against world class competition, including some sweet revisionism with such things as the idea that in the Arlovski fight Nelson was on the verge of getting a submission but the ref made a save rather than just a poor stand-up. Junior has looked very impressive and I love his striking, but he also hasn't fought much speed or anyone with much by way of wrestling, in a division where wrestling really factors in at the top that is something I want to see. Nelson has good enough wrestling and such a good top game that this is a good fight to prove things out. Junior dos Santos by TKO, round 2.
Mike Fagan: This fight should be five rounds. I'm interested to see what Roy can do in top position if he gets there. I don't think he'll get there. Junior Dos Santos by TKO, round 2.
Chris Nelson: "Big Country" only needs three takedowns to win this fight, but they're going to be awfully tough to come by. Dos Santos via TKO, round two.
Nick Thomas: I really hope we get to see Nelson take Dos Santos down. But I doubt it. Nelson will play around with the stand up in the first round and that's where it will end. Dos Santos by TKO.
Leland Roling: Nelson's highlight reel knockouts got him here, but Dos Santos is going to use a stiff, quick jab to keep Nelson at bay. Nelson could potentially do some damage on the ground, but I think he's going to have a real hard time getting there. Junior Dos Santos via TKO.
Jonathan Snowden: Roy Nelson is a hell of a nice guy. But in what world is Nelson a potential title contender? He's beaten an NFL washout with a handful of pro fights, a lesser version of Semmy Schilt, and Kimbo Slice. Not exactly a murderer's row there. I think Dos Santos brings the Nelson bandwagon back to reality here. Dos Santos, KO, Round 1.
Thiago Alves vs. Jon Fitch
Luke Thomas: I know he had problems cutting weight, but I don't see Fitch controlling Alves like he once did. I like Alves in the rematch. Alves by TKO.
Kid Nate: Before Alves blew the weigh ins I was thinking he'd win. Having seen these guys at the weigh ins made me revisit their first fight which was a one-sided beat down ala Randy Couture vs Vitor Belfort 3. Fitch by TKO.
Brent Brookhouse: Striking is a timing game and one that does not benefit from long layoffs. More than any other group strikers have a hard time coming back from layoffs and looking right in the first fight back. Fitch has been doing his thing and taking fights while Alves has been hurt or having brain surgery. I've got to go with the guy who has been active and isn't going to be trying to find his rhythm. Jon Fitch by decision.
Mike Fagan: This fight should be five rounds. Fitch can get himself in trouble when he stands in front of guys. I think he's only stood with guys with average or bad standup to get some practical experience. He'll wrestle Alves here. Thiago's improved, but I think people give his takedown defense way too much credit. Jon Fitch by decision.
Chris Nelson: Tough to know what to make of Alves, whose weight issues are now bordering on the absurd. I'm not sure Fitch has recently taken shots as hard as Alves will throw his way, but nonetheless I can't see it going any other way than Fitch via decision.
Nick Thomas: Fitch will take Alves down at will. Fitch by decision.
Leland Roling: Well... the weigh-in debacle makes me believe Fitch will win, but picking these fights is all about who I want to win. Fitch is a nice guy, good fighter, and obviously successful, but he bores me to no end. Thiago Alves could KO Fitch at any moment, and I'm banking on it. Thiago Alves via KO.
Jonathan Snowden: Is Fitch destined to clear out the division while never tasting championship gold? It's possible, but I like Alves to send Fitch back to the untelevized undercards. The Brazilian is too big, too strong, and hits too hard. I can't see Fitch being able to grind out three rounds with this monster. Alves, KO, Round 3.
Rafael dos Anjos vs. Clay Guida
Luke Thomas: Dos Anjos is slick, but not slick enough to stop Guida. Guida by decision.
Kid Nate: I think dos Anjos is physical enough and skilled enough to get past Guida. Could be wrong, the Caveman is a very fierce gatekeeper at 155lbs. Dos Anjos by submission.
Brent Brookhouse: I think Guida's sub defense is just good enough to work his style and work to a decision. Clay Guida by decision.
Mike Fagan: This is a real coin flip. I like Guida to stifle with top position though. Clay Guida by decision.
Chris Nelson: Dos Anjos will know that his odds of winning this fight decrease every second after the first five minutes. I think he can sub the woolly wildman. Dos Anjos via submission, round one.
Nick Thomas: Love this fight. I give Dos Anjos the slight edge on the feet and the ground. Going with Dos Anjos by decision.
Leland Roling: Great fight, Dos Anjos has the ground abilities to give Clay problems, and Clay's terrible stand-up will probably falter as well. But will his cardio? Hell no. Clay Guida via dog humping.
Jonathan Snowden: This is a great fight between two guys on the opposite end of the popularity scale. People don't know Dos Anjos yet, but they will after this fight. Dos Anjos, submission, round 3.
Undercard:
Tim Boetsch vs. Todd Brown
Luke Thomas: Boetsch should win this, but stranger things have happened. Boetsch by decision.
Kid Nate: I would not want to be a last minute alternate facing Tim Boetsch. Boetsch by TKO.
Brent Brookhouse: Boetsch is going to make very quick work of Brown. Tim Boetsch by TKO, round 1.
Mike Fagan: Don't see how Boetsch loses to a guy on short notice. Tim Boetsch by TKO, round 2.
Chris Nelson: Tim Boetsch via TKO, round one.
Nick Thomas: Boetsch has this by experience. Boetsch by TKO.
Leland Roling: Boetsch should win this, but it'll be a close war on the feet. Even in regional competition, Boetsch wasn't a world beater by any means. Should be entertaining, but I'll take Boetsch via TKO.
Jonathan Snowden: Not only do I predict this one will go to Boetsch, but I expect him to do something spectacular enough to be shown on the PPV. Boetsch by TKO, round 1.
Dennis Hallman vs. Ben Saunders
Luke Thomas: I think Saunders is going to give Hallman a pounding. Saunders by TKO.
Kid Nate: Saunders is just too tall, rangy and dangerous for the battle-weary but ever-game Hallman. Saunders by TKO.
Brent Brookhouse: Hallman is going to have a hell of a time getting anything done standing against Saunders and on the ground Ben's length is enough to make the game of a guy like Hallman very tough to execute. Ben Saunders by TKO, round 2.
Mike Fagan: Saunders should take this on the six inch height difference alone. Ben Saunders by TKO, round 2.
Chris Nelson: Hallman's a tough old salt, but this is a perfect pairing for the lanky Saunders. Saunders via decision.
Nick Thomas: Saunders with the height and reach advantage. Saunders by TKO.
Leland Roling: Hallman's going to have a tough time against Saunders' length, and I doubt we'll see a BJJ clinic against such a large opponent. Saunders should show off some stand-up prowess here. Ben Saunders via TKO.
Jonathan Snowden: Look, Hallman is probably 150 years old in fighter years. He's an opponent at this point, one Saunders should be too physical for. Saunders via decision.
Dustin Hazelett vs. Rick Story
Luke Thomas: Hazelett is extremely dangerous, but I like Story to hurt him enough to control him. Story by decision.
Kid Nate: I don't see where Story's wrestling can overcome Hazelett's BJJ and Story is no better than McLovin standing. Hazelett by submission.
Brent Brookhouse:
Mike Fagan: It feels like Hazelett's been out more than seven months. Tough fight back too. I think he can catch Story, but Story just might be too strong. Rick Story by decision.
Chris Nelson: Three years on, I think we can all agree that the nickname "McLovin" has lost a bit of its lustre. The reference is about as dusty as Dustin is likely rusty, having sat on the shelf for seven months following the Daley loss, and 15 months before that. I almost think he should just go for broke the first time Story shoots on him. Maybe he will... Hazelett via submission, round one.
Nick Thomas: This will look like Charles Oliveira vs. Darren Elkins. Hazelett by submission.
Leland Roling: Nate should watch some more tape. Story continues to improve his stand-up, and while it isn't unbelievable -- it'll be good enough to make Hazelett start wishing he'd shot earlier. Story's wrestling will be very tough for Hazelett to break, especially with such a long layoff. Rick Story via decision.
Jonathan Snowden: I think Story is in a lot of trouble if this thing hits the ground. If it stays standing, the audience is going to be in trouble since neither guy is any good at striking. I like Hazelett here. Hazelett, submission.
Johny Hendricks vs. Charlie Brenneman
Luke Thomas: I'd be shocked in Brenneman pulled the upset. Hendricks by submission.
Kid Nate: Hendricks should beat him up on the feet and on the ground if he takes it there. Hendricks by decision.
Brent Brookhouse: Hendricks is a big favorite for a reason. Johny Hendricks by decision.
Mike Fagan: Hendricks via superior wrestling. Johny Hendricks by decision.
Chris Nelson: Hendricks has beaten Brenneman before in college wrestling. It should be easier with punches. Hendricks via TKO, round two.
Nick Thomas: Hendricks keeps this standing. Hendricks by decision.
Leland Roling: Johny Hendricks via Mike Tyson uppercuts in the clinch. Hendricks via TKO.
Jonathan Snowden: Hendricks is being groomed for big things. Hendricks by decision.
Christian Morecraft vs. Stefan Struve
Luke Thomas: Morecraft seems defensively strong and Struve is certainly a little sloppy, so the pick is difficult here. I'll go Struve. Struve by decision.
Kid Nate: Someday missionaries from advanced nations will bring the jab and the front kick to Holland, until then Struve will engage in ugly inside exchanges he should be able to avoid entirely. Still, I think he's in a different class than Morecraft and will win here. Struve by submission.
Brent Brookhouse: Man, I'm obviously a big Struve fan but the kid has to learn to use his length effectively. There is no reason a little guy like Roy Nelson should have been able to get inside so easilly on him. I think he's got a favorable match-up here and one he will win but I'd really like to see him start to travel and get work in a lot of different camps where they can teach him some new tricks. Most coaches would love to be able to try to do something with a guy his height. Stefan Struve by submission, round 1.
Mike Fagan: Things have been bumpy for Struve, but I think he rights the ship here. Stefan Struve by submission, round 2.
Chris Nelson: Morecraft turned pro just over two years ago and has less than 10 total minutes of cage time. Unless this is a trap fight and Joe Silva is some sort of evil genius, I think Struve runs away with this one. Struve via submission, round one.
Nick Thomas: I'm guessing this is going to look a lot like Lesnar (Struve) vs. Carwin (Moorecraft). Can Struve survive the first round? I think so. Struve by submission.
Leland Roling: Honestly, Morecraft might bomb Struve's chin and win this early. But I'll bank on Struve actually learning something from his previous bouts. Struve by submission.
Jonathan Snowden: I like that Nick compared Struve to Lesnar. Visually,it's hilarious just to picture them standing side by side. My mind is reeling, but not enough to take a chance on Moorecraft. Struve, TKO, round 1.
Rodney Wallace vs. Phil Davis
Luke Thomas: Phil Davis is going to take away Wallace's strength and give him a taste of his own medicine. Davis by TKO.
Kid Nate: Phil Davis is the latest in the Matt Hughes/Jake Shields tradition of wrestlers who become submission artists except he's definitely the much more accomplished wrestler and probably will outshine them as a grappler too. Davis by submission.
Brent Brookhouse: Davis has sick natural gifts, he should win this one in lopsided fashion. Phil Davis by submission, round 1.
Mike Fagan: Sorry Rodney. Mr. Wonderful's gonna run all over you. Phil Davis by submission, round 2.
Chris Nelson: Wrestling! Davis via decision.
Nick Thomas: Davis is going to destroy Wallace. Davis by decision.
Leland Roling: Rodney Wallace, love ya, but you are going to get dominated. Davis via decision.
Jonathan Snowden: Davis is supposed to win for a reason. It's because he's good. Davis, decision.f
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Kid Nate's worried about Silva's perversity?
So is Chael and any other God-fearing republican from his hood
by Balrog on Aug 7, 2010 1:50 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I'm picking
Silva by TKO or sub – I really hope Sonnen wins and wins decisively through his wrestling top game, but I just don’t see him surviving five rounds and not getting TKO’d or subbed. I think he’ll force Silva to fight, and fight Silva will. TKO, round 1 or 2. Regardless, I will be cheering for Sonnen. Maybe God is a republican and will bless Sonnen with holy powers. Jesus didn’t tap, Sonnen.
Hughes by decision – This was a coin toss. I think Hughes continues his streak against the BJJ guys. But I won’t be surprised if Almeida wins.
Nelson by submission – This is my upset pick for the card. I want to believe in the mullet, so I’m going to go out on a limb here and say Nelson gets the job done by being wiley enough.
Aves by TKO – I know he had weight cutting problems, and he has had such a long layoff, but I have to believe Alves can get the win here. I like Fitch, but I really want Alves to win!
Guida by decision – I don’t think dos Anjos submitts Guida outright, and I don’t think he has the striking ability to knock Guida senseless before getting the sub.
I like Snowden's
comparison of AS to Roy Jones. I too could see a quick and ugly fall from the top, but just don’t see it happening here. It will happen soon enough though
I hope Fagan isn't stating the obvious
Because he wants 5 round non-title fights. ;-)
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
Fagan is of the opinion that more fights should be 5 rounds...
and it’s hard to disagree that Mo/Mousasi can be 5 rounds to ensure a better/clearer resolution but the clear #2 and 3 welterweights in the world can not.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 7, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
He already mentioned Mo/Mousasi.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 7, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
At first glance, Sonnen looks like the kind of guy it will take to beat Anderson
But he’s still more old-school wrestler than the sort of new-school MMA Wrestler it will take to beat Anderson – someone with excellent takedowns and TDD, functional submissions and good sub defense, great top control and overall positional control with the ability to pass, effective GnP and at least semi-adequate striking (for set-ups).
Sonnen has good takedowns and TDD, fairly effective GnP and that’s about it – he’s got a little too much Mark Coleman (with more cardio and less brutality), and not nearly enough GSP. He exposes himself to way too many choke opportunities, which is what ias likely to happen tonight at some point…
The one thing I really expect to be able to take away from this fight is Sonnen giving some insight into how a better MMA wrestler might beat Anderson. Someone like GSP, Jones (at 205) or perhaps Rashad (at 185 or 205), since Rashad’s biggest wrestling weakness (his top control) wouldn’t matter much against Anderson.
Sonnen should have 15-25 pounds on Anderson in the cage, but…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 7, 2010 2:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Great Post
I agree 100%. Well except Chael hacing 15-20lbs on Ando. That wont happen. Ando cuts from 225, and sonnen around there. Forrest cut from 240 for his fight with ando and he STILL looked smaller. Anderson has a weird, lengky, alien body. Jones is similar just bigger overall.
I'm Not Afraid of Dying, I'm a Little Bit Scared of What Comes After...
by SouthCaliStunNa on Aug 7, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
“Sonnen should have 15-25 pounds on Anderson in the cage”
Uh, what?
by ufc4 on Aug 7, 2010 2:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If Anderson and Ed Soares are to be believed (stop laughing)
Unlike the top US (and US-trained) fighters, Anderson (like Machida and Shogun) does not cut weight in the usual wrestling/MMA/boxing use of the phrase.
He loses excess weight to be sure, but he doesn’t go through the 4-5 day dehydration/rehydration cycle that the wrestling guys use to go from, for example, 205 on Monday, to 185 on Friday, and back to 205 the next day.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 7, 2010 3:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The Case for Chael Sonnen
Aside from the occasional hiccup here and there (e.g., rd 1 v. lutter), Anderson has had as good a run in the UFC as anyone has ever had. As a result, he deserves a tremendous amount of credit and respect for all of the skills he’s demonstrated throughout his tenure at the UFC. Nevertheless, I feel like, especially from the media, but also from many hardcore fans, he gets too much credit, and it’s affected their ability to objectively assess his chances. He gets credit for having skills and attributes there’s little evidence to support other than an aura of invincibility.
1. Silva’s ability to submit opponents off his back: He never has shown an active guard and has submitted one fighter from his back and that submission wasn’t set up through deft manipulation of his opponent’s arms and posture, but rather an up kick. This isn’t to say he doesn’t deserve credit for opportunistically cinching up the submission (on a BJJ BB no less), but he has never demonstrated a deft or dangerous guard from his back and he has never swept anyone as far as I know. As numerous wrestlers have demonstrated (with John Fitch probably being the best example), it’s extremely difficult to submit someone from your back in modern MMA unless you are a grappling stud. In sum, he’s submitted one person from his back and that was an opportunistic type submission that seems less indicative of an elite guard game than, say, Bibbiano’s armbar against Joe Warren or even Filho’s armbar against Sonnen.
2. Silva’s guard: (In the UFC) Silva recovered his guard against Hendo and Marquardt (the latter of whom only made it to half guard) and coaxed a stand up against Leites and Marquardt. His body triangle is very effective at keeping opponents locked in place and he was able, for instance, against Marquardt to use wrist control to avoid a lot of damage. He’s had his guard passed by Lutter and Hendo, while in the UFC. When mounted against Lutter, he showed pretty poor instincts throwing his arms up to try to push Lutter off (or baiting Lutter into a poor armbar depending on whom you ask) and failing to shrimp his hips and recover half guard before Lutter could (and allowing Lutter to) achieve a very high mount. He then tried to pull Lutter off with his legs and push him off with his arms. I’m not aware of too much other data out there regarding Silva’s guard or defensive BJJ. In his pre-UFC days, he had his guard passed by Newton (and was subsequently mounted). He was controlled pretty thoroughly by Chonan on the ground before he got submitted. He was submitted by triangle a short time after Takasi established side control and Sakurai’s top game was more or less nullified (although I question whether Silva would have been awarded a UD against him given modern MMA judging standards and the amount of time Sakurai stayed on top). These fights were a long, long time ago and I don’t feel very good predictors of Silva’s likely success tonight or ability now. Nevertheless, I’ve never seen anything about Silva’s guard to make think it’s elite or anything to get that excited about.
3. Silva’s take down defense: (In the UFC post Lutter) Silva managed to keep upright for the most part against Leites, Marquardt and Hendo and completely avoided being taken down by Maia. None of these fighters is a good MMA wrestler. The most cited evidence of Silva’s take down defense was against Hendo, when Hendo had a body lock, tried to take him down, failed to do so and then threw a knee and released the body lock. Hendo has never effectively used his wrestling for takedowns in MMA. Greco Roman wrestlers generally are not, given a similar level of accomplishment, as effective at takedowns as folk style and freestyle wrestlers, and Hendo’s best days are 14 years behind him. As a result, I have difficult putting too much stock in how good of a predictor his success on one take down attempt by Hendo is in this case, since Sonnen, despite his faults, has always imposed his wrestling on his opponents when he’s tried and he’s never opted to slug, as Hendo is wont to do. Maia and Leites are mediocre wrestlers at best. Marquardt’s wrestling is questionable. Silva of course was taken down by Lutter several times but may have been injured. Looking back much further in Silva’s past than Lutter probably isn’t helpful here, although doing so wouldn’t exactly bolster the argument that Silva has good TD defense. In sum, nothing in Silva’s past leads to believe he can stop a good MMA wrestler’s takedowns. He’s never faced a good MMA wrestler and he’s managed to get taken down by mediocre wrestlers.
So what does this say about Silva’s chances here:
Silva’s likely paths to victory are relatively simple: 1) keep the fight standing and rock and then pound CS out or submit him (a la his submission over Hendo); 2) outpoint him and take a decision; or 3) submit him from his back. Other paths to victory of course exist – Sonnen is disqualified; Sonnen blows his knee out while shooting in for a take down, etc.; the odds of any of these ending is very low, say, 1%.
In response to "path 1)", Sonnen has taken everyone down, as far as I know, he’s tried to take down including some of the best wrestlers at MW (albeit the best of an exceedingly weak bunch at MW). Even as an undersize LW against Babalu (weighing 197 lb), he managed, after an initially rocky start, to take down and control Babalu, before of course he was tapped. Silva likely needs to rock Sonnen to stop his take downs or to catch him coming in. Sonnen has never been knocked out from punches and he absorbed a pretty decent head / neck kick from Babalu and wasn’t even staggered. I think his chin is pretty good. I also think people vastly overrate how easy it is to knock someone out when he’s shooting in. Of the hundreds and hundreds of take downs that occur in MMA every year, you don’t see more than one or two actual stoppages from someone eating a knee or a punch on his way in. You’re far more likely to see someone’s eating a knee or punch, taking it and then scoring a takedown – Warren – Karakhanyan, Edgar-Franca, etc. Silva is not your normal fighter and, granted, he knocked out Newton with a knee when he was shooting in. But even using just Silva’s past fights as the relevant data sample, Silva’s probably been taken down forty times in his career and he’s landed one fight ending blow as a counter to a takedown. As a result, it doesn’t seem likely that he’ll do so here. Silva’s clearly capable of knocking Sonnen out, but it’s hard to knock someone out who doesn’t want to stand and slug with you, as Leites and Maia (and countless others against other opponents) have proven.
In response to "path 2)" and for similar reasons to those outlined above, a UD victory for Silva seems extremely unlikely to me. The better wrestler will generally dictate where a fight takes place unless he’s stopped. If Sonnen takes Silva down, Silva can try to coax a stand up with a body triangle, but Sonnen has always been comfortable in someone’s guard (maybe a little too comfortable) and has never been stood up as far as I know. If Silva’s plan is to hope to stall Sonnen and get a stand up he’s going to be giving away rounds and is in for a long night.
In response to "path 3), and for reasons discussed above, Silva’s submission prowess is more an article of faith rather than one borne from a careful review of his fights. Unless someone has some non-publicly available information about his submission ability, there’s no reason to believe he’s going to catch Sonnen, despite Sonnen’s notoriously porous submission defense, which is, I believe, generally overstated. The last two people to submit Sonnen in the last four years were Filho and Maia, both of whom are elite BJJ players from their backs and have demonstrated that their respective submission games have translated well to MMA. Anderson’s chances to submit Sonnen should not be confused with theirs. And unless you believe Sonnen never learns anything, early submission losses against players like FG need to be discounted heavily (i.e., they’re not good predictors of Sonnen here). In his work out videos on purefight, Sonnen showed that he is working on his submission defense and knows how to, e.g., probably defend against a triangle. To the extent you think that Sonnen’s past losses against, e.g., Griffin should be heavily weighted here, then I think you should do the same for Silva. Silva was submitted by Takasi and Chonan and outwrestled by Sakurai (a relatively small WW) and Chonan. Viewed through this perspective (which I think is inappropriate), Silva’s chances stop looking so great.
Intangibles:
Silva has always shown a great chin and I think he has a lot of heart as well. He reacts like a fighter when he’s challenged or hit — he steps up his game and attacks. He’s supremely intelligent and is willing to modify his game a significant amount to give himself the best chance of winning. He refuses alter his strategy because he’s being booed and appears ready to stick to the script no matter what. These are the sorts of qualities that are consistently underrated and don’t win fans, but do win fights. On a more negative note, for the first time in a fight, Silva showed that he might not be in as good shape as he seemed to slow in the fourth and fifth round against Maia. Having someone on top of you punch you is much more tiring than clowning around and throwing the odd punch here and there.
Sonnen has shown a very good chin, outstanding cardio and very good toughness (at least recently). He’s also shown himself to generally have low fight IQ, camping out in high level BJJ players’ guards unnecessarily long instead of at least advancing to half guard. There’s no reason that someone with his wrestling ability should get submitted as often as he does. Sonnen said he weighed 207 (I believe) before the Marquardt fight. This is relevant because he’s likely to end up on top and other things equal it’s more tiring to have a larger fighter on top of you, than a smaller fighter. Silva has indicated that he doesn’t cut a lot of water weight the day of weigh ins and likely weighs little over the limit on fight night. (Silva indicated in a countdown show before the Maia fight that a week out he was already 192 lb and that before he even boarded a plane for AD he expected to be at 185 lb. People who "cut" lots of water weight before fights do so on the day of the fight, because being so dehydrated is terrible for your system. Thus it’s unlikely that that he cuts much if any weight before fights (although he loses a significant amount of weight during his fight camp) and as a result weighs very close to 185 lb on fight night.)
Prediction:
This has largely been one sided – I’ve generally been minimizing Silva’s chances while talking up Chael’s. I don’t think Silva needs me to run through why he’s such a good fighter; others here have and will. Nevertheless I think that Silva’s "clear" paths to victory are fraught with a lot more difficulty than many are acknowledging.
Given all of the above, I think that Sonnen should be slightly favored. He has a chin and a clear path to victory. At a minimum, the current line has a lot of value in it for those who want to bet on Sonnen. Sonnen by UD.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Aug 7, 2010 2:39 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
I’m going to have to come back and read this one.
"Holy Crap Lashley is one Bi black dude. He just looks so immensely thick in that picture."
-Pain
by Barack Lesnar on Aug 7, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
youre shitting me here larry
I'm Not Afraid of Dying, I'm a Little Bit Scared of What Comes After...
by SouthCaliStunNa on Aug 7, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Careful.
I got warned for saying, “Who gives a shit”, in a post so you might get warned for this one.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
i was already warned for saying snowdens Chuck/Jones fight was idiotic.
This, like that, would garner an unwarranted warning.
plus, i dont think Darkness’ name is Larry (;
I'm Not Afraid of Dying, I'm a Little Bit Scared of What Comes After...
by SouthCaliStunNa on Aug 7, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't want to be that guy
who complains about getting warned but this one wasn’t right. And they weren’t even nice about the warning either. Not only was I warned but I got a snotty message to go with it. It’s not like I just got here. I’ve been commenting here for quite a while and said much worse than, “who gives a shit”.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
Dude, hell of a read.
I’m not sure if I agree with your prediction but you made that fight analysis your bitch.
Rec.
by Applejack McNeil on Aug 7, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Outstanding analysis - by far the best overall I have seen
And I think you are spot on, with one possible exception – Sonnen seems to be overly prone to getting caught in chokes, even recently (although he survived many).
As I’ve posted here and elsewhere, I think Silva finds a way to win (probably via choking Sonnen out) at some point, but that is more an article of faith than an objective analysis.
I do think this fight, win or lose, will only serve to reinforce my belief that an elite MMA Wrestler is the best opponent for beating Silva.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 7, 2010 3:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Thanks
I’m very nervous about this fight; I also feel like Sonnen will find a way to lose. I finally talked myself out of it because when I really tried to think through all of the ways Silva has to win I couldnt’ find credible evidence to support the belief that he shouldn’t be more likely than not to lose — this is a classic striker-wrestler match up except that Silva happens to be the best stand up fighter (probably) in MMA today. Normally this doesn’t give me much pause because significantly superior wrestling trumps significantly superior striking 7 times out of 10 (and that’s a conservative estimate) but Silva’s extra striking prowess has to be accounted for so I moved the odds closer to 5 out of 10. I think Silva’s ground game is modest. I will be getting a lot of shit from my friends if I’m wrong and Sonnen gets unceremoniously choked out.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
He has a real shot to be sure
But the more I think about it, I see too much Mark Coleman and too little GSP in his game.
Then again, Silva’s game is very similar to Shogun’s (although Shogun might have better BJJ – certainly better sweeps), and old Coleman gave Rua all kinds of problems, as did pretty good mma wrestler Brilz with Nog Lite.
I’m sitting out the betting on this one, although Sonnen has some value. I see this much like I would see Machida-Jones (for completely different reasons) in that I could see it being a great, competitive fight or a one-sided crushing by either side.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 7, 2010 4:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If you honestly believe this fight is a coin flip, you should be betting your net worth on Sonnen.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
I don’t think it’s a good idea to bet your net worth on anyone even if you think he’s a 99% lock and everyone else thinks he has a 5% chance of winning. Although to the extent you see some value you should bet as much as you feel comfortable losing.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
"do so on the day of the fight"
*"do so primarily on the day of weigh ins or the night before weigh ins"
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
Nice work
Great illustration of Chael being undervalued. However, I think you might be leaving out the dynamic of AS’s range and footwork. No one can move like AS. I think we are going to see a lot of stick and move for the 1st 3 rounds resulting in Chael not being able to grab onto anything. Eventually the shots from AS and the pressure of the moment will take their toll and Chael will give AS an opening to land some harder shots. When Chael does get a TD he might win that round but he certainly wont get a stoppage, plus he’ll eat an upkick if he tries to stack him up. Your points show why it will be a lot closer than people think but in the end Chael is right in that it wont be much different from AS last fights. Except Chael is a lot stronger than those other guys.
I’m going all Brazil except Fitch.
Your beliefs become your reality.
by Hardy's in your face on Aug 7, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course,
Silva’s submission rates are low. They’re low because he’s blowing guys out of the water. How many submissions do you need when you’re the only guy who can knock out Chris Leben? When he has to, he gets it done on the ground, re Hendo and Lutter.
But on the reverse side; How often does Silva get beat while on his back? How many finishes does Sonnen have in the UFC? Put those two tidbits together, and you come up with the same conclusion I have… Sonnen may get Silva down, even a couple of times, but he’s not a finisher, and Silva is (usually).
Brazil ftw
"Holy Crap Lashley is one Bi black dude. He just looks so immensely thick in that picture."
-Pain
I got Brazil winning 3-2
But im hoping Matt can pull it off for the reversal.
I'm Not Afraid of Dying, I'm a Little Bit Scared of What Comes After...
by SouthCaliStunNa on Aug 7, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
my picks of no consequences are:
Sonnen by DQ: Silva is gonna go roadhouse on Chael and rip out his trachea (Patrick Swayze R.I.P) Then we can have Leben v Beltor for the strap ; )
Hughes by bible beating GNP
Nelson by Girth and Mullet
Fitch by a shocking 7 second knockout….now who’s boring bitches!
Capt. Caveman by Chest Hair Choke
Brent
Nelson was in side control working for a kimura. That was beyond a bad stand up.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
What I’m saying is that Arlovski was not in immediate danger. It was a bullshit stand-up (anything from side control or mount..etc is a bad stand-up) but having watched that fight several times recently it was never close to being a locked in sub. The most likely outcome there was that the round ended and Roy gets pounded out exactly as happened with the stand-up.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 7, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
EXACTLY
I just watched it again a couple of days ago as well. AA was in no danger at all.
http://www.instrength.com
Yeah
I get what Brent was saying. People feel that Nelson had a clear victory ripped out of his jaws. Not even close.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
When he fought Monson and lost the decision that was shady
"Holy Crap Lashley is one Bi black dude. He just looks so immensely thick in that picture."
-Pain
by Barack Lesnar on Aug 7, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed!
let wait and see if Davis can become a great MMA grappler. BTW does Dana let his fighters compete in ADCC or the like?
cool.
i’d love to see Davis develop for a year or two and then compete in them.
by F'n Clownshoes on Aug 7, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Hughes and Tito were both pre zuffa.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 7, 2010 4:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m pleasantly surprised – I figured they were athletically exclusive, and that Fedor was getting special treatment when they offered to let him do Sambo tournaments (which he has since abandoned, criticizing the judges in the wake of the Ivanov match). Judging by Dana’s statements, I’m guessing trying to go to the Olympics isn’t banned, either.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 7, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it is actually covered by their contracts, but the UFC would always have the ability to waive compliance with the covenant. At least when Dana was talking about the possibility of GSP taking a stab at the olympics, I remember that was the sense that I got — that there could be some kind of waiver but such ancillary activities were generally prohibited.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
Statistics
Leland: 93-44
Nate: 83-52
Brent: 81-51
Nick: 76-33
Nelson: 74-40
Fagan: 73-62
Luke: 72-52
Rome: 39-30
Snowden: 20-11
http://www.instrength.com
Man...
the last couple events really turned things around for me.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 7, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Winning percentage:
Nick 69.7
Leland 67.9
Nelson 64.9
Snowden 64.5
Nate 61.5
Brent 61.4
Luke 58.1
Rome 56.5
Fagan 54.1
http://www.instrength.com
Far less sexy in % format.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 7, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Which one of those guys does the betting posts? :-D
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 7, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was actually considering going back through Fagan’s posts for the year to see how many units he’s up/down. But there’s beer in front of me, soon to be replaced by another one, so…yeah, I’m too lazy for that.
http://www.instrength.com
That would be interesting to see. I always liked that Performify, e.g., would track his own betting performance.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
I kept track until last summer when my desktop hard drive crashed and I lost data.
I really should set up another spreadsheet.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
Betting picks and straight "who wins" are very different.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 7, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I bought Starcraft II yesterday. I’m tired.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 7, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
^^^^^
how has this not gotten jokes??
Lemme start: “Subo, are you the Korean kid from down the hall that no one has ever actually seen?”
I throw raps that attack like the Japs on Pearl Harbor/MC's be out like bank robbers/Fleeing the scene, to be a sole survivor/DJ the getaway driver/Tried to dip but he dive, I socialize on vocal vibes/On tracks stabbed up with razor sharp knives
by Anthony Pace on Aug 7, 2010 5:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Korean kids bought it the day it came out.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 8, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
you talk about roy nelson beating some easy opponents, what about JDS… all of his opponents kept the fight where it was most comfortable for JDS, the only one that tried (and completed) a TD if i recall correctly was gonzaga, who doesn’t have the “keep him down” ability that nelson does. nelson via smother.
Why don’t you people read the comment before you reply? All of jds’s opponents kept it standing. I dunno if Roy will be able to do it (keep jds down) but I’ll bet that jds gets crushed by the first wrestler he fights.
by kanodogg on Aug 7, 2010 6:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What?
JDS beat Werdum, Struve, CroCop, Yvel, and Gonzaga.
You know you’ve faced some tough competition when Yvel (or Struve) is probably your easiest opponent.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
I think Big Country takes this one in an upset providing he doesnt spend too much time standing and trading with Dos Santos. I think he can get a takedown, advance, and give him the moon belly crucifix and the ref will have to stop it. Even if he can work to a stand up after a take down, if Nelson stays with the take downs, he’ll wear out Cigano and finish him late in 2 or 3.
At first I was like, Kid Nate and I agree on everything!
But then I saw “Fitch by TKO”
I throw raps that attack like the Japs on Pearl Harbor/MC's be out like bank robbers/Fleeing the scene, to be a sole survivor/DJ the getaway driver/Tried to dip but he dive, I socialize on vocal vibes/On tracks stabbed up with razor sharp knives
by Anthony Pace on Aug 7, 2010 6:04 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Didn’t he ko alves in their first fight? Lol, haven’t seen it though, was it a fluke?
by kanodogg on Aug 7, 2010 6:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Fitch caught him with 2 beauty upkicks that stunned Alves, and he got the quick TKO from there.
http://www.instrength.com
Alves has come a long way from the guy that lost to Spencer Fischer
I throw raps that attack like the Japs on Pearl Harbor/MC's be out like bank robbers/Fleeing the scene, to be a sole survivor/DJ the getaway driver/Tried to dip but he dive, I socialize on vocal vibes/On tracks stabbed up with razor sharp knives
by Anthony Pace on Aug 7, 2010 8:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Predictions
Sorry, a bit late on predictions, but here goes.
Silva Vs Sonnen – As much as I cannot stand Silva AT ALL, or his douchebag manager, Ed Open Mouth Sores, I have to give him the nod here. Silva via triangle choke as much as I am rooting for Chael.
Almedia Vs Huges – Huges Decision
JDS Vs Nelson – JDS – TKO
Alves Vs Fitch – Fitch decision
Dos Anjos Vs Guida – Guida Decision
Boestch Vs Brown – Boesch TKO
Hazelett Vs Story – Hazelett Submission
Hendricks Vs Brenneman – Hendricks TKO
Morecraft Vs Struve – Struve via submission
Wallace Vs Davis – Davis TKO
Ok I think thats all of them except the Hallman fight which is over. Good luck everyone, enjoy the fights!

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