UFC 117: Does Chael Sonnen Even Have a Chance Against Anderson Silva?
We are hours away from Anderson Silva's most anticipated middleweight title defense since his fight with Dan Henderson in March of 2008. Since that fight, Silva has looked spectacular in two appearances at light heavyweight, and less than inspiring in three fights at middleweight.
Early in his UFC career, Anderson Silva's one clear weakness was his defensive wrestling. He was taken down by Travis Lutter, Nate Marquardt, and Rich Franklin with ugly takedown attempts, and was also taken down by Dan Henderson. Of course, taking him down was not enough. None of the aforementioned challengers had the top game to truly put Silva in danger, and Silva stopped all of them inside of two rounds.
If Chael Sonnen has a chance at UFC 117, that chance hinges on the fact that Anderson Silva has not competed against a wrestler with legitimate wrestling credentials since he defeated Dan Henderson at UFC 82. Since March of 2008, Anderson Silva has fought men who either had no desire to take him down or no ability to do so. Chael Sonnen wants to take him down, and certainly has the ability to do it.
Dan Henderson is the best wrestler Silva has ever competed against, and while Henderson has incredible wrestling credentials, few would argue that his MMA wrestling is as effective as Chael Sonnen's. Chael's double leg covers a lot of distance in a short period of time, which allows him to take opponents down without first having to put himself in danger by closing the distance, unlike Dan Henderson.
Make no mistake about it: Chael Sonnen is the best offensive wrestler Anderson Silva has ever fought. Further, Silva fans should be concerned that Silva's main wrestling training partner for this fight, Mark Munoz, was completely unable to take down a fighter that Chael Sonnen took down with ease.
But is a great double leg enough to beat the best fighter on the planet? Probably not. Taking Silva down won't do the trick on its own; he is quite capable off of his back, and very good at minimizing damage while he waits for an opportunity to get back to his feet. This is the real reason a GSP fight is so intriguing: St. Pierre is perhaps the only fighter alive who possesses both the ability take Silva down and the ability to cut through his guard and threaten him offensively from top position. Chael Sonnen will have to do his work from guard, and it's hard to see him succeeding given his long history of poor submission defense.
Chael Sonnen's best hope at winning is to drag this fight into the championship rounds by securing takedowns and playing a conservative game from top position. Instead of posturing up and putting himself at risk for submissions, he should stay close to Silva while landing body shots and close range elbows. If the ref stands them up, rinse and repeat. If he can make it to round 3 and take one of the first two rounds, his odds of winning skyrocket. We've seen Silva in rounds 4 and 5, and he is certainly not the killer in those rounds that he is in rounds 1 and 2.
While it's true that a five round fight favors the man most capable of finishing, it's also true that there are very few instances in UFC history in which a striker comes back to score a knockout after being put on his back for multiple rounds. Intense wrestling and grappling is physically exhausting, and by rounds 4 and 5 a knockout finish becomes very unlikely after multiple rounds of wrestling.
Ultimately, getting past round 2 with Anderson Silva is easier said than done. Especially when he's angry. The most likely outcome of this fight is a submission win for Anderson Silva, and the second most likely outcome is a KO win for Anderson Silva. However, of all the men Anderson Silva has fought in the UFC, Chael has the greatest chance of scoring a decision victory. That chance is still very low, but it's real.
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Ultimately, getting past round 2 with Anderson Silva is easier said than done. Especially when he’s angry.
i kind of disagree with this statement
the part about when he’s angry i mean
his single most impressive and dominant perfmormances were against franklin both times and those were fights filled with mutual respect and no animosity.
however in the maia fight anderson seemed to be quite upset and couldn’t seem to finish maia when the time came to do so. going so far as having maia connect several times flush with punches on anderson who maia shouldn’t have been able to touch on the feet.
andersons emotions could get the best of him
and don’t expect chael to stop talking shit just because the cage door has closed
he’s going to try and invoke anger and emotion and i think he’s doing so in hopes that anderson doesn’t fight like he did against rich
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by Johnathan Willis on Aug 7, 2010 3:11 PM EDT reply actions
Of course he has a chance.
But I expect Silva to embarrass him tonight. There is no way we’re going to have another questionable performance from AS.
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really?
Listen, nothing would make me happier to see Anderson totally annihilate Sonnen. can you say w/ certainty that he won’t just go all …… i don’t know …. Anderson Silva on him and dance around and thigh punch for 3 rounds. I’m just sayin’…
by F'n Clownshoes on Aug 7, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Him Dancing around Maia for 25 minutes getting hit maybe 5-10 times the whole fight is more impressive than a quick finish. He can control a fight joking around and I hope he does it Maia style but even worse against Chael.
by Brent Nahmias on Aug 7, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
He has a chance
All fighters have a chance to win fights against superior opposition.
Will he win? No.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
I do think Sonnen has a chance
I look at this fight as one of the most interesting of Silvas career.
Sonnen didn’t take down Okami with ease. He barely got him or kept him on his back for any portion of the fight.
http://www.instrength.com
Well, he did take him down several times
and he didn’t feel all that much pressure to keep him there since he was winning the standup as well.
And you’ve got to consider that Okami’s takedown defense > Silva’s
He won in the wrestling department against Okami, which I don’t think anyone (arguably Shields) has ever done. It wasn’t a GSP/Hardy kind of wrestling domination, sure, but it was significant, and shocking.
The best way to beat someone that’s really good at anything is to out wrestle them – I think that’s why it became so popular back when warfare involved stabbing and hand-to-hand combat. Sonnen has the kind of wrestling game, cardio, toughness and dedication that can decision just about anybody.
I don’t think it will happen here, but stranger things have happened.
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by Derek Suboticki on Aug 7, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
you should expand this into a post
The best way to beat someone that’s really good at anything is to out wrestle them – I think that’s why it became so popular back when warfare involved stabbing and hand-to-hand combat.
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bardiche > double leg
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by Anthony Pace on Aug 7, 2010 5:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I believe Anderson is now too big for 185 to be his optimal weight class. Making 185 takes alot more out of him now.
I theorized something along those lines after the Maia fight.
That between the age causing the weight cut to be too difficult and a certain conservatism setting in because he was setting the record for title defenses, that he was no longer able to bring it full steam at 185.
I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.
If Anderson and Ed Soares are to be believed, Anderson doesn’t cut weight, although he loses excess weight before and during his first camp prior to a fight.
Unlike the top US (and US-trained) fighters, Anderson (like Machida and Shogun) does not cut weight in the usual wrestling/MMA/boxing use of the phrase.
Again, he loses excess weight to be sure, but he doesn’t go through the 4-5 day dehydration/rehydration cycle that the wrestling guys use to go from, for example, 205 on Monday, to 185 on Friday, and back to 205 the next day.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 7, 2010 6:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Like I said above, if Anderson doesn’t cut water weight, explain the huge bottle of pedialyte that Soares handed him when he got got done with the weighin.
http://www.instrength.com
It was purple
"Holy Crap Lashley is one Bi black dude. He just looks so immensely thick in that picture."
-Pain
by Barack Lesnar on Aug 7, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Muay Thai grip and sip
"Holy Crap Lashley is one Bi black dude. He just looks so immensely thick in that picture."
-Pain
by Barack Lesnar on Aug 7, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Water, milk, cola, purple stuff… Hey, Sunny D!
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
you see the kid in the background? He’s thinking “I want the purple stuff”
"Holy Crap Lashley is one Bi black dude. He just looks so immensely thick in that picture."
-Pain
by Barack Lesnar on Aug 7, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't see anything about it above, but you'll note I qualified it with
“If Anderson and Ed Soares are to be believed, Anderson doesn’t cut weight”
I have no personal knowledge of his training, only their statements.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 7, 2010 7:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don’t doubt it in small amounts (5-7 pounds), but my point is they traditionally don’t go through the sort of scientific loading/dehydrating/rehydrating process that is used to lose and regain 20-30+ pounds over a 2 day period like the wrestlers (and others) typically do.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 7, 2010 7:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That was in a completely different article, but
Yes, IF they are telling the truth about their respective weights.
Unless they are just complete idiots who have no understanding of the scientific principles and the techniques used in proper effective & safe (well, that’s debatable) weight cutting, then they will weigh no more entering the cage than what they weighed about a week before the weigh-in, and very little different than what they weighed 36-48 hours prior to the weigh-in.
That’s just how weight cutting is done. It would be extremely counter-productive for a fighter who weighs say, 192 2-3 weeks before the fight to add excess water weight just so they could come into the cage at 205-215, and it would be completely pointless (and also counter-productive) to intentionally dehydrate other than when absolutely necessary.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 7, 2010 7:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This is like saying GSP didn’t take Dan Hardy down because Dan Hardy was able to stand up. He took him down over and over again.
It was nothing like Hardy/GSP, where 22 minutes of the fight was on the ground. They spent less than 6 on the ground in this fight. He did take him down 3 times in the first, but after that it was almost all kickboxing till halfway through the third. Sonnen took his back then, and glommed onto him till Okami dropped to the ground for a kimura attempt. Sonnen DID outwrestle Okami, but Yushin stuffed a bunch of his shots and it wasn’t as one sided as people seem to remember.
http://www.instrength.com
This is good, I need more Michael Rome in my life.
by ufc4 on Aug 7, 2010 3:40 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 2 recs
My thinking is...
no one really thought Chael had a legit chance against Anderson even after the Okami and Marquardt fights. But once Silva took a shit in the Maia fight it turned opinion to where people WANT him to lose and then Sonnen came in and talked so much that the same exact fight with the same exact fighters was getting a completely different reaction from fans. Suddenly Sonnen (who has always been a very flawed fighter) is Silva’s kryptonite.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 7, 2010 3:41 PM EDT reply actions
For me...
I hadn’t seen the Okami fight (like most people), but I started thinking he had a chance after the Marquardt fight. I had no idea his wrestling was that good. Then when you combine it with the Okami fight, his matchup with Silva becomes very interesting.
You’ve seen Sonnen’s record right? You know he’s lost to Jeremy Horn three times right?
by ufc4 on Aug 7, 2010 3:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
anderson has questionable losses too
jeremy horn has a very good ground game
one of the best
chael’s kryptonite is submissions
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by Johnathan Willis on Aug 7, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
And Okami, Marquardt, and especially Miller have very good ground games as well, so maybe Chael has improved.
I'm starting to question Marquardt's inclusion...
on the very good ground game list.
I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.
Jeremy Horn was a great fighter.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 7, 2010 4:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
i've never seen the horn anderson fight
i know it went to a unan decision
how one sided was it?
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by Johnathan Willis on Aug 7, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
i just watched a highlight video
it appears horn won the first round and became a punching bag thereafter
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by Johnathan Willis on Aug 7, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Not trying to say Horn is bad, but Silva is the P4P best. How many other guys with 10 losses who are 3-3 in the UFC would people say have a chance to beat Anderson Fucking Silva?
by ufc4 on Aug 7, 2010 4:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Rec'd
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
I’m gonna admit, I am one of those people who have never really liked Silva. I can appreciate the fact that he’s an amazing fighter, and one of the top P4P fighters in the world, and I am usually spellbound whenever he puts on a great performance, because it truly is a sight to behold, but he’s never really interested me, and his personality has always been a huge turn off. So I suppose I may be seeing Sonnen in a different light. The “shit in the Maia Fight” that Silva took was the last straw for me. I just want to see him lose. Even if it is to a dude as crass as Sonnen.
My thinking is…
no one really thought Chael had a legit chance against Anderson even after the Okami and Marquardt fights. But once Silva took a shit in the Maia fight it turned opinion to where people WANT him to lose and then Sonnen came in and talked so much that the same exact fight with the same exact fighters was getting a completely different reaction from fans. Suddenly Sonnen (who has always been a very flawed fighter) is Silva’s kryptonite.
I think the trash talk has also done the opposite to a degree. Imagine a guy who has better MMA wrestling than anyone Anderson has faced and just man handled Nate Marquart and Okami beating them 30 to 27. If this guy wasnt named Chael Sonnen people would be taking this fight alot more seriously just based on its merits not just trash talk.
Sonnen has lost a bunch of times via submission but has never been ko’d… but is anderson really gonna guillotine Chael? Silva has 2 submission wins in his entire career so counting Chael out because of his weaknesses in submission defense isnt very prudent.
On paper Chael is at a minimum Andersons 2nd toughest challenger to date.
One of those subs was against the next-to-best wrestler he’s ever faced though.
http://www.instrength.com
Yea, cuz Hendo had a 5 minute gas tank six months after going 25 minutes with Rampage. Sure.
http://www.instrength.com
I was actually talking about lutter… both subs were impressive though. Im not saying he cant sub chael. Im saying chael’s sub defense weakness wont be the main reason. I think It will either be because Chael is hurt or he’s gassed out.
My point is people because Sonnen got tapped by Horn, Philo, or babalu doesnt decrease Chael’s shot at anderson by a whole lot.
100% agree.
Sonnen is going to have to keep up a blistering pace in the first couple of rounds – but without getting sloppy. That’s the rub right there. Sonnen isn’t the most disciplined when it comes to gameplans sometimes, and the fact that he won’t really be guardpassing (at least not to the extent GSP would), and he’d be working mostly from Silva’s guard, makes me think Silva will sub him. I think this might be a repeat of the Marquardt / Sonnen fight. The only difference is, Silva will finish Sonnen once he gets him with a sub.
He has no chance
This fight will be over no later than the 2nd round. If Sonnen is in full attack mode this will allow Silva to counter with this speed and power. Sonnen won’t be able to handle that.
I think Sonnen has a chance
Use superior wrestling for the first three rounds then survive the last 2 and we may have a new MW champ.
Sure his chances are slim, but I’m one of those people that believes anything can happen in a fight. Maybe even a freak injury who knows
i had a feeling fedor was going to lose to werdum. i have no such feeling about chael upsetting silva tonight.
by puuhonua on Aug 7, 2010 4:13 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I declare
This doesn’t count as “calling it” if Sonnen pulls the upset.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 7, 2010 4:17 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
i have been pulling for chael in the face of much adversity from most other posters
can i at least say i told you so?
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by Johnathan Willis on Aug 7, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Just like it didn't count as "calling it" when you said Werdum was legit!
;)
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 7, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
If I had to put money down, it would be on Silva.
However, I’ll go ahead and say that if this fight makes it to round 3, I pick Chael.
Still hedging. Call it or don’t. ;)
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 7, 2010 4:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Hey, like I said, I’m picking Silva. I’ll edit all of this if Sonnen wins.
by Michael Rome on Aug 7, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Your summation is mine too
I agree with your analysis. My guess is that from most likely to least likely this is what we’re looking at:
1. Silva by Submission
2. Silva by KO
3. Sonnen by decision
4. Silva by decision
5. Sonnen by KO
6. Sonnen by Submission
There are only two fighters in the world who might be able to defeat Jon Jones: Ken and Ryu.
meeeee toooooooo
i predict sonnen to win
but if he doesn’t i’m willing to bet at the end anderson knows he was just in a fight for possibly the first time ever in the ufc
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by Johnathan Willis on Aug 7, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
for me, I usually go with the fighter who has more ways to winning. Toughness isn’t enough . . . nobody questions how tough Forrest Griffin is, or Dan Henderson or Nate Marquardt or Rich Franklin . . . being tough isn’t enough with Anderson Silva. Perhaps Chael grits through two rounds but he’s going to sleep tonight.
Vote Quimby
i want that middleweight belt back on american soil
nothing against brazil or other countries
but i would like to see it held by an american again
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by Johnathan Willis on Aug 7, 2010 6:24 PM EDT reply actions
I wouldn't mind an American champ, as long as it's not Chael Sonnen.
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by Ryan Tical on Aug 7, 2010 6:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
undestandable
i personally like sonnen
next to lesnar he’s one of the most charismatic fighters currently under contract
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 7, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
If Chael was doing it for shock value, okay. I see you point--
However, Sonnen is just an ass, fighting aside. When he crosses the line and starts talking about shit that is irrelevant to his sport —you cross the line.
He is the Sean Hannity of MMArtists. Just another person I want to see rotting in a ditch somewhere. The guy is a joke.
"Okay, I stay clever like Mayweather, will lay leather 'til your face sever, one of the greatest ever." -- Big Daddy Kane
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by Ryan Tical on Aug 7, 2010 7:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
JDS is going to break your heart.
"Holy Crap Lashley is one Bi black dude. He just looks so immensely thick in that picture."
-Pain
by Barack Lesnar on Aug 7, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Ugh
You realize that there is about a 5 inch height, and 40 pound weight disparity between Anderson and GSP, right?
I fail to see what is so enamoring about this matchup at all.
Neither do I. Dana knows this aswell. Why would he want his biggest cashcow completely destroyed by Silva?
Sure, the fight would do huge numbers and stir up plenty of old discussions. However, GSP would get tooled and hung up to dry.
You would see the UFC’s numbers slowly dwindle without that clean cut, white champ.
"Okay, I stay clever like Mayweather, will lay leather 'til your face sever, one of the greatest ever." -- Big Daddy Kane
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by Ryan Tical on Aug 7, 2010 6:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah--but it really isn't.
GSP is 183. Let’s say he really bulks up to 190 (like he wasn’t already jacked before). GSP is about 5’10 (yes, they say taller, but I am taller than GSP, and I am not 6 feet tall).
Anderson walks at around 220.
Where is the exaggeration?
on TUF 4
randy said gsp was bigger than almost all middleweights
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by Johnathan Willis on Aug 7, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
GSP’s 193, not 183. And he’s a legit 5’11. Anderson it’s 6’4, he’s 6’2. And he has walked around as high as 220, but doesn’t normally.
3 inches, 27 pounds.
http://www.instrength.com
I have no idea what that even meant, I was simply correcting a spelling mistake.
While I agree with your basic premise (that the fight isn’t that interesting because of the size difference), you exaggerated the size difference.
http://www.instrength.com
Good point--
I meant—bump to the top!
This forum doesn’t work like that—I realized after I post.
Maybe an inch on height.
Wait until you see a side by side—remember these posts.
They are not even remotely the same size.
You’ll get the argument from some that Anderson drops weight well before a fight, doesn’t cut water weight, and doesn’t gain any back after the weighins, so GSP would actually be the heavier fighter in the cage. I beg to differ, based on the huge bottle of pedialyte Soares handed Anderson after he got off the scales yesterday.
Anderson’s much bigger, you are correct.
http://www.instrength.com
beet me too it damn it
yeah those numbers are way off
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by Johnathan Willis on Aug 7, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I just researched the numbers.
Three inches, twenty-seven pounds sounds about right. Either way, GSP’s head would be pounded more than a teatherball at recess regardless of the weight discrepency.
"Okay, I stay clever like Mayweather, will lay leather 'til your face sever, one of the greatest ever." -- Big Daddy Kane
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 41-0-0 (25 KOs)
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by Ryan Tical on Aug 7, 2010 6:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm not saying it because I'm being a dick or dislike GSP.
He’s an awesome talent, gets the job done even if it’s not the most beautiful of outcomes. It’s just Anderson Silva is a whole different kind of animal.
Tonight we shall witness greatness. crosses fingers
"Okay, I stay clever like Mayweather, will lay leather 'til your face sever, one of the greatest ever." -- Big Daddy Kane
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 41-0-0 (25 KOs)
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. Hitlist: Manny Pacquiao, Sergio Martinez
by Ryan Tical on Aug 7, 2010 6:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you are exaggerating both the height and weight difference between the two
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 7, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I like how it’s an outrage to consider this fight, but guys like Lutter, Cote, and Maia who are not bigger than GSP can go against Silva no problem.
If you really need the stylistic appeal of this fight explained to you, I don’t know where to begin. There’s a reason fans chant for it around the world, it’s really not hard to understand.
Those fans don't realize the size difference--
That is the reason.
Do you share the same ignorance?
You really think Lutter and GSP are the same size Rome? The guy that didn’t make weight at all, because he quit sweating?
You sure about that?
Sonnen by UD. Reasons here: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/8/7/1610965/ufc-117-anderson-silva-vs-chael#storyjump (it’s the really long post).
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