FightMetric Report for Yushin Okami vs. Mark Munoz From UFC on Versus 2
by Mike Fagan on Aug 4, 2010 10:10 AM EDT
in MMA News
Email
Print
When the bell sounded signaling the end of round three, it looked like Yushin Okami would coast to a unanimous 29-28 decision on the judges' scorecards. The first round, admittedly, featured very little action. FightMetric's report for the fight shows Okami with a 2-1 advantage in overall strikes (14 to 7), while Munoz held a slight 4-3 lead in the new Significant Strikes category. (Significant Strikes "includes all strikes at distance and power strikes in the clinch and on the ground.") Nearly all (13) of Okami's strikes, however, went to the head. Five of Munoz's strikes went to the body or legs.
In addition, Okami largely controlled the pace and location of the fight. Okami kept Mark's back to the fence and stuffed all but one takedown in the round (and he scrambled to his feet less than ten seconds later).
Unfortunately, Cecil Peoples scored cageside for this one. Naturally, when Bruce Buffer read the decision, we were given an Okami split decision victory with Peoples turning in the dissenting 29-28 Munoz card.
Instead of focusing on Peoples strange take on the Unified Rules, there's three points that I thought were significant to the fight.
1. Yushin Okami's footwork is good - A lot of fighters move forward and backward, content to chase their opponent around the cage. Yushin Okami made excellent use of lateral movement, forcing Munoz's back to face the fence for much of the fight. This prevented Munoz from being able to press Okami up against the fence to dirty box or continue fighting for a takedown. In addition, it built on the progress he made in the Linhares fight, fighting more aggressively instead of looking to backpedal and counter.
2. Mark Munoz does not have good MMA wrestling - Well, at least not in this fight. FightMetric tallied 15 separate attempts for Munoz and credited him with one successful takedown. This is not a very efficient use of one's wrestling. Chael Sonnen took down Yushin Okami throughout their fight. Why was he successful? Okami was returning from a torn knee ligament, but Sonnen set up his takedowns with strikes. Not once did I see Munoz throw a punch before changing levels. And by round three, when fatigue had set in, he resigned himself to just dropping to his knees and literally diving at Okami's legs.
3. Yushin Okami fought with a sense of urgency in round three - There are a handful of things that could be at play here. 1) Okami's corner told him he was behind and needed to finish. 2) His corner thought he was tied, but wanted a decisive third round. 3) The Okami camp saw that Munoz was visibly tired. 4) Knowing that Munoz had no ability to put him on his back, Okami felt safe in opening up his game. Regardless of the reason (or combination of reasons), Okami pressed on Munoz from the start of the round. Take a look at Okami's strike totals by round:
| Round | Total | Significant |
| 1 | 14 | 3 |
| 2 | 22 | 3 |
| 3 | 65 | 16 |
| Total | 101 | 22 |
Munoz, by comparison, landed six strikes the whole round and failed on all six of his takedown attempts.
68 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Any sport that has an element of judging in determining the winner is going to be plagued with problems as a result. I don’t think there are any sports with an element of judging where you don’t see fans (rightfully) complain about it. It’s really the nature of the beast.
That’s not to say that continued scrutiny isn’t warranted but it’s just something worth keeping in mind.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
by Worldisart on Aug 4, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
And… Doesn’t Cecil Peoples have a boss? Why is there seemingly no oversight for these judges?
I wish I had a job that I could be that terrible at and not get fired.
"I wish I had a job that I could be that terrible at and not get fired."
You could always go into politics…
We never hear anything about judges being reprimanded. The only incident I can remember was when the judge went on a retarded interweb rant after an iffy decision
Wasn't that the 50-45 judge in the Edgar/Penn fight?
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
If I recall correctly, he was punished.
I don’t recall ever hearing about another punishment though.
I believe he was punished because he trolled the UG forums, not necessarily because of his score.
by BurtBacharach on Aug 4, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
That’s what I remember too… So punishment is attainable, just rare. It basically requires a complete mental meltdown.
Crosby never had to explain his scoring on the Penn vs Edgar fight because it took place out of the country. Even if it took place inside the U.S or a province in Canada that has a athletic commission A judge like crosby who is considered a elite judge because he has worked his way up doing 99.9% boxing cards the worst that would of happend to Crosby is he would of had to sit down with the head of the commission and explain why he scored the fight they way he did and thats about about all and the commission would be happy with that explanation.It’s pretty dam laughable.
If you listen to the Jordan Breen show he has went over it many of times what happens to Judges and the process the head of the commission will go threw. If its a mid to lower level judge after about the 1000th time of having a bad score card the commision will finally drop them down to judge lower level to mid level MMA/Boxing shows and have them work there way back up. And as for what Crosby said on the UG I know alot of Athletic commsions contacted him but I don’t know if anything has ever happend to punish him at this point ?
Oh... and...
Mark Munoz does not have good MMA wrestling –Well, at least not in this fight.
You had it right.
I thought that would be his downfall when we spoke about the fight card.
Munoz is good, but needs more polishing. The Kendall Grove match showed that he learned nothing about stand-up defense and setting up the takedown..
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Aug 4, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
That is what I was saying pre fight too..
Munoz has better wrestling on paper, but probably not in real life.
Funny thing is...
… He trains in Black House which has some VERY impressive strikers and fighters who have a good sense of faints and blocking from the stand.
His style in both the Grove match and this last match doesn’t suggest that he has ANY of the attributes coming from this camp.
It’s like he believes SO much in his ability to overpower any opponent and get them to the ground that everything else is forsaken.
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Aug 4, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
But it also appears that he is the main wrestling guy in the camp. I think he needs to train with some other wrestlers to learn how to implement it better into his game. At Blackhouse I think he does not get the wrestling training he himself needs
"Ten more seconds is all I ever ask. That's the good thing I learned about being KO'd twice. You don't see it coming -it's like death- you don't plan for it so don't wait for it. So many people are afraid of getting Ko'd that their hands stay home, but not me. I got to go out there and shoot the lights out and fall down" Jens Pulver
Mark Munoz isn't very good
At least not in comparison to most fighters in the UFC. He is a mediocre fighter at best. His wins in the UFC are against middling fighters and even in victory he hasn’t really blown anyone away.
If he can get on top of you he has some good ground and pound but that’s about all he has going for him as a fighter. He’s a great example of how fighting in a good camp can only do so much for a fighter. At the end of the day he still has to get in there and perform and Munoz hasn’t done a fantastic job of that.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
Yeah, I don't get it.
Munoz has the tools to be successful, but he can’t seem to put it together. In theory he should have monster takedowns, but for some reason he doesn’t. Elite takedowns coupled with his vicious GnP would be quite formidable. Add any technique to his power striking and he wouldn’t be a pleasant match up for many.
Help me out here regarding Unified Rules
Where do they come up with the criteria for judging (effective grappling, striking, octagon control)? From what I remember about the Unified Rules, they only mention scoring 10 points for the more effective fighter and 9 or less for the less effective fighter.
I always assumed that the criteria came from the UFC (or whatever promotion) trying to explain the sport to the viewers.
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
No, the criteria come from the rules. You can’t just write rules that say the more “effective” fighter gets ten points and then not offer a definition for the more effective fighter. I still think there needs to be more clarity both for the sake of judges and the sake of fans but it’s never just been the more “effective” fighter without further definition.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
Does anyone have a link though?
I’d like to see how the judges are instructed to score the fight. I’m an original source kind of guy.
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
by PapaBumpants on Aug 4, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Someone did an article on BE about it, roughly a year ago, I’ll see if I can find it. It’s a pretty good breakdown on the scoring instructions and what judges priorities are supposed to be.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
Any help would be appreciated
Here is a link to what I was talking about earlier in regard to not being very specific, at least not for Nevada:
http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NAC/NAC-467.html#NAC467Sec796
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
by PapaBumpants on Aug 4, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I did a quick search and couldn’t find the article I was referring to. Perhaps when I have a bit more time later this week I’ll do a fanpost on the matter. But there is a very clear directive on what constitutes a fighter being more effective and it comes from the unified rules, not the promotions.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
Thanks Mike!
With your help, I was eventually able to track it down to the NJ State Athletic Control Board (http://www.nj.gov/oag/sacb/docs/martial.html – for people like me who like to track down the original source).
This is extremely illuminating. Seems like NJ breaks it all down in a much more indepth way than NV does (and probably most other states do).
As an example of something important I just learned:
c) Judges shall evaluate mixed martial arts techniques, such as effective striking, effective grappling, control of the fighting area, effective aggressiveness and defense.
(d) Evaluations shall be made in the order in which the techniques appear in © above, giving the most weight in scoring to effective striking, effective grappling, control of the fighting area and effective aggressiveness and defense.
There’s plenty more too.
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
by PapaBumpants on Aug 4, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
New Jersey’s AC almost makes up for the overwhelming failure of that state as a whole.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
Although I thought Okami won, I didn’t find the scorecard for Munoz that apalling. I thought the second round definately went to Munoz, the third round definately went to Okami, and the first round was kind of hard to call. I think people are b!tching just for the sake of b!tching.
When you combine the fact that Okami outlanded Munoz and had one of the few displays of serious “Octagon control” that I can remember, it’s fair hard to make an argument for Munoz.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
I have to agree
The first round was close enough that the decision is not outrageous, in my opinion.
The problem is that a single takedown where nothing is accomplished can sometimes count for a lot in a very close round. But takedowns should count for something, in my opinon.
If he took Okami down and controlled him in someway, sure. But he just took him down and Okami popped back up in the scramble.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
Mark Munoz
The only way I can describe Mark Munoz in the cage is “befuddled”.
He’s not sure if he wants to strike, or take you down, to to press forward or backwards. He seems content bumbling through a fight swinging wildly or holding onto a leg and hoping you trip into a better position for him to pound you out.
"holding onto a leg and hoping you trip into a better position for him to pound you out"
Munoz is supposed to be an elite wrestler, why do his takedowns look like this?
This argument will continue as long as the scoring is on a per round basis...
Cecil People’s scorecard is completely resonable given the accepted scoring system in the UFC. If the fight was scored as a whole, then everyone here would have an excellent argument that a split decision makes not sense. But, the reality is that the UFC sees value in each round being scored independently. Otherwise, why have rounds at all? In this fight, the first round was a toss up. If Cecil scores it for Munoz, how can we blame him? The same thing happened to Okami in his fight with Rich Franklin a few years back. He clearly dominated Franklin in the 3rd round, nearly submitting him in with a Kamura. But, because the 1st two rounds were razor close, the decision still went to Rich. The argument here is not about the quality of the judging. It’s about the scoring system. If you don’t like it, how about suggesting new ideas to make the scoring system better?
The best way to address the current scoring system is encouraging more liberal use of the10-10, 10-8 and 10-7 round.
The ten point must system can work, but almost exclusively using the 10-9 round in a three round fight doesn’t really work. With more liberal use of other round scorings, Machida/Shogun 1 is probably scored a draw, Thiago Silva vs. Rashad Evans is probably scored a draw, Randy Couture vs. Brandon Vera is probably scored a draw or even a narrow victory for Vera. However keep in mind that people don’t like draws and there will be backlash.
As for other notions such as scoring the fight on the whole, I think that will actually create more controversy rather than less. Scoring round by round makes judges more accountable and breaks down their view of the fight.
Here’s the thing though, regardless of the scoring system instituted, there’s always going to be disagreement, there’s always going to be controversy. That’s the nature of having a system where human beings are passing judgment and declaring a winner. This is unavoidable.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
by Worldisart on Aug 4, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I think your proposal is one of the more sensible and easily implementable suggestions for reform I’ve read. I think it would likely result in fewer questionable decisions.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Aug 4, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
In K-1 they used to do a half point system...
Any thoughts on this idea? So, a close round would be 10 – 9.5. And if a guy takes a beating but still fights back he may lose 10 – 8.5. Still, it can lead to more draws, and I don’t think American fans would be happy with this.
Seems like this is just the same thing, except point deductions will be more significant in your system than in Worldisart’s.
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
by PapaBumpants on Aug 4, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I dislike the idea of a half point system
It essentially accomplishes the same thing as what I proposed but in a more confusing and less fan friendly manner.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
The card for Munoz was not completely reasonable
Round 1 consisted of Okami outstriking Munoz, Okami stuffing most of Munoz takedown attemts, Munoz getting one takedown that did not do any damage, did not lead to any ground and pound, and did not even give him any top control to speak of.
Scoring round 1 for Munoz is not a crime against humanity, but it is not correct.
I agree that there will ALWAYS be controversey when judging is involved. It’s easy to break things down with the benefit of fightmetric, compustrike, replays etc. But if we were on the hot seat scoring it live, how would we score it?
I consider myself a softcore fan.
And it’s not like Peoples card didn’t receive a lot of criticism immediately following the fight without the aid of those resources.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
totally agree
this was a clear case of poor judging. My second half was supposed to be a reply to Wordisart’s green post, but didn’t actually show up that way.
Thinking about that made me think that it would be interesting to see how BE members score a fight live, without recourse to extensive online discussions and breakdowns. I know there have been some fights that would have been extremely hard for me to score live.
On the flip side, i think I could always turn in a better card than Peoples. He a rare case of living up to and even exceeding one’s stereotype. “What, someone scored for Munoz? Must’ve been old CP.” And then sure enough, it was.
I consider myself a softcore fan.
"But if we were on the hot seat scoring it live, how would we score it?"
I would have scored it for Okami, but i was also fully aware that the first round was a round that some stupid judge could give to Munoz. After the fight I even said to my buddy “That should be a clear 29 – 28 for Okami, but judges are stupid, so it’ll be a split decision.”
If Cecil scores it for Munoz, how can we blame him?
By thinking that getting outstruck on the feet and getting a takedown that results in 3 seconds of a fighter on his back is enough to win a round?
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
Aaaaahahahahaha I KNEW it was Peoples!
by Polyhedron on Aug 4, 2010 9:46 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
"Mark Munoz does not have good MMA wrestling "
I fully agree. It’s shockingly mediocre given his pedigree. Even if he doesn’t use his striking to set up his shots well, he was pretty deep on some of those singles and, as a result, should have been able to finish them. That he couldn’t must mean he’s not training his wrestling enough. I blame blackhouse, and of course, Ed Soares. . . j/k. I do blame blackhouse in part though.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
If Anderson used Munoz’s wrestling to train for Chael Sonnen he’s gonna be in more trouble than I thought this Saturday.
by BurtBacharach on Aug 4, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
the real black eye for blackhouse
is Munoz horrible striking. He hits hard, and he’s a tough guy, but for a camp that includes some of the best strikers in the game, his punching is shockingly sloppy
I consider myself a softcore fan.
You can't blame the camp
This is a prime example of the axiom of steel sharpening steel.
Mark Munoz isn’t steel.
Mark Munoz can’t be expected to learn to strike like an Anderson Silva or a Lyoto Machida because he’s not built like them, doesn’t have the background they have, and doesn’t fight like they fight nor will he ever be capable of doing so.
This isn’t a black eye for Blackhouse. All camps have guys like Munoz who just aren’t that good. Is Brian Stann a black eye for Jackson’s because he’s a terrible wrestler in a camp full of high level wrestlers? No, Jackson’s is still a great camp regardless, same goes for Blackhouse and the striking of Mark Munoz.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
You could have a very good camp (based on who claims that camp as his home) but not very good instructors. Perhaps that’s what’s going on. Or perhaps Munoz could use more remedial help before he graduates to blackhouse. They might be filling his head with high level striking tips and methods that, when coupled with his at best shaky foundation, only serve to confuse him. Obviously I’m speculating here but that’s the feeling I got watching him.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Aug 4, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Or it could just be as simple as Mark Munoz isn’t very good. Which is more than likely the case.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
by Worldisart on Aug 4, 2010 11:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
2 – 3 months of striking with Emmanuel Steward, Freddie Roach, or the Mayweathers or any body else will not automatically replace your natural tendencies or instinct.
Look at Chuck Liddell as a prime example. He trained with Olympic medalist Howard Davis for the Shogun and Franklin fight. Liddell said during training he drilled keeping his hands up. They were addressing and fixing the holes during training camp. Unfortunately when the bell sounds what happened, he reverted to his crowd pleasing, KO winning ways and got dropped.
See the HUGE difference in striking with Kenny Florian and Josh Koscheck over a LONG period of time. A guy like Brock Lesnar is aware of his shortcomings in striking, give him some time and I’m sure we’ll see a dramatic difference.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Aug 4, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Cecil Peoples’ greatest hits…
30-27 Penn in GSP-Penn I
30-27 Munoz in Okami-Munoz
I’m sure there are more, but those two come to mind…
You don't like wrestling in MMA? Go watch K-1.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Aug 4, 2010 10:49 AM EDT reply actions
Wait… fightmetric scored the grappling for Munoz? Can someone explain that one to me?
by thekiltedwonder on Aug 4, 2010 10:56 AM EDT reply actions
The overall GrappleScore was 18-12 Okami, so I’m not sure what you’re talking about.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
Weird. I just went back and got a totally different result when looking at the grappling. What I’m seeing now makes a LOT more sense.
by thekiltedwonder on Aug 4, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
There was no rhyme or reason for Okami's third round aggression
He is notorious for turning it on in the third, which was his undoing against Rich Franklin (having lost the first two rounds and dominating the third). I told everyone I was watching with on Sunday to keep an eye out for Okami unleashing in round three and that’s just what he did.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
I’d say methodical/patient.. Likes to feel out his opposition. He’s more that than a slow starter now that his boxing has come so far. He took Munoz’s best shots and then clamped down on him. It might have bored some people, but from a purely technical standpoint, it was quite brilliant, really.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bloody Elbow
Related FanShots on Bloody Elbow
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
