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"Imposing His Will": Grappling in American MMA

UFC 118 was as boring as it was eye opening. American wrestlers had a day, with Nik Lentz, Gray Maynard, and Frankie Edgar grinding out boring, tedious decision victories; on the losing side were B.J. Penn, Kenny Florian, Andre Winner, and the fans. Mixed martial arts fans lost a genuinely thrilling talent in Penn, an intimidating gatekeeper in Florian, and a serious up and coming threat in Winner. In return we gained a Maynard-Edgar title match hopefully scheduled for February Two-thousand-never. Many, including myself, were left wondering how. How could the lightweight division become so utterly disinteresting so fast?

The answer came to me in the Lentz-Winner battle when Joe Rogan exclaimed “[Lentz] is imposing his will!”. Sure, Lentz had Winner pushed against the cage. Lentz wanted to be there, Winner did not, Rogan’s commentary rang true. Yet, Winner imposed his will by neutralizing Lentz’s takedown attempts and grappling while landing hard knees and punches every time they broke. Lentz’s grappling served best as a means for Winner to demonstrate incredibly technical defense. Whose will was being imposed more effectively? And does it matter? This idea pervades American MMA as Rogan boorishly reminds us in every fight he announces.

The recent string of controversial decisions can be attributed to this attitude: Couture vs. Vera, Penn vs. Edgar I, Shogun vs. Machida I. The losers in each of these fights dealt more serious damage to their opponents only to lose decisions due to pace or effective grappling. Winner vs. Lentz simply extended the streak. Many scored the fight objectively in favor of Winner 29-28, knowing that Lentz would get the nod for his grappling despite pathetic ability as a mixed martial artist. And this resignation among fans that the better martial artist stood no chance against the judges and the current culture of American MMA is echoed in the approach of the fighters as well.

Simply put, the rules and culture of MMA are stacked against true fighters so much that when faced with grapplers and their “game plans”, they must fight to avoid losing rather than fighting to win. This is what happened to The Prodigy. Fans (and FightMetric) believed he won his first match against Edgar because despite Edgar’s pace, B.J. landed harder shots and stuffed takedowns. The second time around, knowing Edgar would win by avoiding engagement and landing weak shots for points, B.J. was forced away from his exciting, finishing style. The sight of B.J. Penn defeated by the system should worry any MMA fan. Penn vs. Edgar II was not a fight. Instead, it was a calculated sporting match.

My point is that grappling should be a means to an end, not an end in and of itself. The same goes for pace. Fights should be scored based on damage done and aggression, not positional advantages that result in stalemates. Additionally, I enjoyed the Winner-Lentz fight specifically for the grappling. Winner was able to masterfully maintain his balance and neutralize Lentz's attacks while escaping to land hard strikes.

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

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I’ve been thinking the same exact thing about stopping takedowns against the cage. If a fighters goal is to get a takedown but he only succeeds in holding you against the fence, while failing to get you down, I would say that is a draw at best. Not “opposing his will”

by RoB_ex on Aug 31, 2010 10:47 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Almost forgot

Isn’t a “calculated sporting match” in line with the goal of making MMA a legitimate Sport?

by RoB_ex on Aug 31, 2010 10:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Randy Couture disapproves

One of the issues with this is determining the fighter’s goal — after all, it could be that his intent changes (i.e. grind him against the cage) when the takedown gets stuffed.

by Chortles on Sep 1, 2010 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nice post ...... Agree with ya completely .

" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson

by MidWayMonster54 on Aug 31, 2010 11:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Anyone who scored that fight for Winner should never judge another fight again, he was dominated by Lentz. You can call it and try and put it down anyway you want but it didn’t change that he impossed his will on his opponent there was no controversy about who won the fight. People need to get over the fight that if you can’t stop a guy from taking you down or pushing you around for 3 rounds you deserve to lose.

"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/

by Nightwhistler on Aug 31, 2010 11:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Have to disagree about Penn-Edgar… Frankie won that fight standing up every bit as much as he won it on the ground. Also, it’s not (necessarily) like Penn, Florian and Winner are gone forever.

You don't like wrestling in MMA? Go watch K-1.

by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Sep 1, 2010 7:12 AM EDT reply actions  

Edgar won both fights. In the first fight you can see it in BJ’s face, he knew he lost. Secondly people need to stop bitching about grappling. Go watch fucking K-1 if you dont like grappling. Imposing your will is a huge part of a fight. If you can control the guy and stop him from doing what he wants you are winning the fight. Learn about grappling and maybe you’ll like it more.

I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!

by attgnp on Sep 1, 2010 7:23 AM EDT reply actions  

Do we really have to keep saying ....

…. this line ……

Go watch fucking K-1 if you dont like grappling
Yo I can’t stand watching guys like John Fitch go out and lay on folks for the win . Yet I can watch guys like GSP dominiate with grappling and wrestling . Why ? Because GSP attempts to end the fight and Fitch just extends the fight . Me I like watching guys go out and sling the leather , but I can also appreciate a good wrestling / grappling type fight also . Which would I prefer to see ? I like a good mix , but if forced to choose I’d pick a stand up war . So just give that tired line a break because not everybody likes wrestling or the lay and pray mentality that some fighters use .

" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson

by MidWayMonster54 on Sep 1, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Also, if you look at BJ’s face after the first fight it was busted up under both of his eyes, while Edgar didn’t have a mark on him, and wasn’t even dazed once in the fight, but hey everyone just keep telling yourselves that BJ was landing the much better shots. He is getting alot of credit for the hard shots he landed against Diego, Kenny, and Sherk.

Grappling happens, if a striker wants to stop it learn how to sprawl and brawl, not just get pushed into the fence and hope the ref breaks it up.

by dpk875 on Sep 2, 2010 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

"True Fighters" better ensure that they win their fights.

Or they will be drummed out of the sport summarily, and good riddance.

by capital L on Sep 1, 2010 7:43 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

My point is that the rules and judging criteria favored Frankie’s style of evasion. B.J. had to change his style to try to win a decision. That’s why he didn’t look like “The Prodigy”.

by fidelitas et integritas on Sep 1, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

He didn’t look like “The Prodigy” because Edgar tired him out, beat him up and took his will away.

by McEwen on Sep 2, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

my neck hurts

From nodding in agreement.

Give me smallest finger on man's hand. I'll produce information. Computer unnecessary.

by hobbie on Sep 3, 2010 12:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Grinding someone against the cage should not be deemed “imposing your will” because Lentz was in fact trying to take Winner down but was failing to do so. As a result, neither Winner nor Lentz was imposing his will. The fight should have been scored with this in mind and I would have liked to have seen Winner get a couple rounds on at least one judge’s score card given that he landed the only significant blows in the fight.

"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.

by The Darkness on Sep 1, 2010 4:32 PM EDT reply actions  

LeonardWashington...

…posted a great article about how the rules overly-favor takedowns with no follow up and ineffective grappling from the top. Basically, the rules will continue to produce Lentzes, Maynards, and Edgars until the rules recognize that a takedown doesn’t do much except change the position of the fight.

by sBruce24 on Sep 2, 2010 1:04 AM EDT reply actions  

Once again, ignoring the debate on wrestling in MMA, Edgar has no place on a list of guys that are being accused of abusing the strength of takedowns to steal wins, just as he can’t be accused of avoiding engagement.

Edgar scored zero takedowns in the final three rounds of the second Penn fight, all of which he won decisively. In the prior fight, he scored two takedowns total. Matt Veach is the one who took Frankie down, before Edgar rallied to win by rocking him standing then choking him out. Sean Sherk got his face punched off standing against Edgar. That’s all of Frankie’s fights from 2009-2010. None of them were won by taking a guy down and then not following up and doing just enough to stay active.

Just Blog Guy - http://JustBlogGuy.wordpress.com/

by JustBlogGuy on Sep 2, 2010 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, Fitch has actually done what you were talking about. I don’t get how I need to “chill” because I pointed out you are complaining about a fighter doing something that he doesn’t do. Just because somebody disagrees with you does not mean they are a frothing-at-the-mouth lunatic.

Just Blog Guy - http://JustBlogGuy.wordpress.com/

by JustBlogGuy on Sep 2, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know how you could call what Edgar did boring.

Also I don’t know why you included him in the fighters that “grinded out a boring decision”

by J_Maddux on Sep 2, 2010 2:35 AM EDT reply actions  

started off weak, then lost me

When you said shogun vs. Machida 1 was an example of a fighter using wrestling to grind out a decision.

I mean jeebuz, did you even watch that fight?

Give me smallest finger on man's hand. I'll produce information. Computer unnecessary.

by hobbie on Sep 3, 2010 12:17 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

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