The Absurd Magnification of B.J. Penn's Failures Doesn't Prove He's Overrated

One thing that somewhat sucks is that UFC 118 put an end to the Penn Nuthuggery.

I mean, before there was this lively debate about HOW GREAT BJ Penn was and that all his losses could be explained away.

Now that he’s lost it’s fair to say, wait a second, perhaps those explanations weren’t correct. Perhaps we were being affected by the nuthuggery.

It’s a good and evil thing.

Next time, put Leland’s article first, it’s better for everyone’s blood pressure.

is a much more well balanced and realistic piece on BJ’s standing in the sport,imo.

The voice of reason and sanity has entered. Thanks Leland

That the use of the term overrated is a wrong. Let’s be honest, if BJ Penn had the mental dedication, training and fight camps that someone like GSP has, I have no doubt in my mind he would be unbeatable. Sadly, if things stay the course, BJ will be remembered as a very good fighter that could have been so much more. I believe if he applied himself properly and came with the best resources behind him, he could be a threat in quite a few weight divisions.

I’m not a BJ Penn fan by any stretch but I would be remiss as an MMA fan to not see his natural skillset, killer instinct and innate fighting pedigree. That aside, he’s probably the biggest victim of his own ego. He’s more oft than not, he’s complacent, egotistical and almost exists in a mindset where he believes his own hype. His ego train started chugging back into the limelight, in the days of the second Matt Hughes fight wearing a T-shirt that said “The REAL champ is back” and got soundly beat out in a crucifix. He seemed to be on the right track with regards to his dedication to his craft working with the Marinovich team but someone mentioned the other day, he no longer trains with them. I haven’t dug that deep to be honest. He seems like a totally different fighter removed from his wins a year ago.

Let’s be honest, very few of the exceptionally good fighters ever leave their first camp wholly, most times they just add coaches or disciplines. A guy like Rich Franklin still trains with Grugel but has added Matt Hume’s philosophy to his game plan. GSP started with Tristar, then added Phil Nurse & Greg Jackson. BJ, has for as long as I remember, kept his camps in Hilo and trained with his lifelong training partners & coaches. So are we simply seeing another example of the “game” catching up to a fighter? Has the fight game evolved around BJ enough that while his talent is top shelf, his methods are just antiquated by today’s standards? Does he need to do 8-12 weeks @ Xtreme Couture and and add some more strategy to his game plan? I would hope Penn and his inner circle of people will seek the answer, making the decision accordingly.

BJ Penn will always be a force, a threat and a perennial contender.

It’s up to him to establish his path to greatness we all know he’s capable of. It’s just tragic to see such raw, pure talent go to waste from lack of conviction to his craft.

so if you had him pegged as a very good fighter who isn’t necessarily one of the top 5 of all time (or whatever you had him pegged as), then he’s not overrated. But if you think he IS one of the top 5 or whatever, then he is overrated.

So, he is and he isn’t overrated.

Now everyone thinks he’s crap.

The look in BJ’s eyes isn’t determination.

It’s boredom.

I do enjoy these point, counter-point pieces.

Well said. It’s good to see someone who doesn’t depend on tabloid level bullshit to get a response.

Anyone remember when Snowden accused Chuck of doing coke? Enough said.

Welcome to -bloodyelbow.com TMZ.com

What do you think of when you hear:

Matt Hughes – Slam win over Carlos Newton, his second fight with Trigg, being the most dominant WW ever.
Randy Couture – Out playing Belfort, out wrestling Coleman, Iceman Trilogy…being Randy Couture.
CroCop – “Right leg hospital, left leg morgue”
GSP – Pure athletic greatness. (comedic accent)
Royce Gracie – Pioneer

BJ Penn – ?

Gomi fight I suppose you could put in there. Outside of that…he really hasn’t done much to earn a Legacy.

…Much better article than previous ones regarding the matter…but was Lyoto really “Lyoto” yet when he fought Penn?

No pedestrian fighter gets a title fight let alone wins 5 of them.

I do think Penn is overrated. To me, overrated means that there is a designation of you that everyone continually repeats, but you fail to meet those expectations on a consistent basis. That is Penn.

Snowden does have a point regarding the whole 5-5-1 thing. If you compare Penn to others in championship fights (in no particular order):

Hughes: 9-3
GSP: 7-2
Silva: 8-0
Liddell: 5-2
Couture: 9-6 (Does not include the tournament win)
Ortiz: 6-2 (yeah. I know. But he deserves mentioning here)
Lesnar: 3-0

Penn’s 5-5-1 looks pedestrian against the others. I think what this just shows is what we’ve always known: Penn is inconsistent. Does this mean he isn’t a great fighter? No. I think he is a great fighter. But is he overrated? Yes. For years people have been saying, “If Penn took it seriously…” “If Penn shows up…” “If Penn gets a fire lit under his butt…” That’s a lot of “Ifs” There is no other fighter I can remember where his legacy was, in part, built on what could have been, instead of what is. Like I said, I think Penn is a great fighter. But he’s definitely overrated a little bit. And believe it or not, you can be both.

True greatness? I think you are seeing that in GSP and in Anderson Silva right now. When GSP got KO’d by Serra, he came back stronger. When Silva was being dominated by Sonnen for 4.5 rounds, he submitted him. When Matt Hughes got that illegal blow to the nuts when he fought Trigg and was nearly choked out, he reversed him and slammed Trigg and choked him out instead. When Penn lost to Edgar, he put on a worse performance the second time. When Penn was being slammed by Edgar, he looked lost. Like I said: great fighter, but overrated, and this is in part due to his own delusions of grandeur and his fans building him up to be something he’s not. The syophant behavior of those around him has not helped his career one bit. IF Penn didn’t have so many yes-men, maybe he could have lived up to the rating people gave him. But that’s a big if. :D

…but I think I’m going to have to give up and leave that to him. If he doesn’t want to be seen that way, he’s going to have to try harder not to write such indefensible things.

And as much as it pains me to agree with Leland: the guy is right. Thank goodness this argument boils down to:

JS: Black is white!
LR: Ummm… no? What?

I’m one of few who is actually indifferent towards BJ. I rarely get excited for his fights because indoor know who is going to show up. This past Saturday crystallized that sentiment for me. I waited for the 5th round and thought he would come out with some real, determined urgency. As the seconds ticked away it never happened. He was clearly losing and ue did nothing to turn that tide. Look at Anderson against Chael. Clearly beaten thru four rounds and then in the 5th he executed his gameplan perfectly. I did not see that at all from BJ. I had a project in Hawaii that was about a year long. We always joked about deadlines being on real time or Hawaiian time. With BJ it’s the same thing. Is his greatness going to show up in a fight in real time or BJ time?

he argued with me in the comments of a story that we shouldn’t look at Penn’s beatdown of Gomi as an accomplishment, when evaluating Penn’s standing as one of the greats, because Gomi was never very good. This pretty much tells you where he stands on BJ Penn (and Gomi, I suppose).

I like some of the things he writes but nobody here is going to make him believe that Penn has accomplished anything great.

Possibly the best wrestling in MMA
was supposed to say
Possibly the best boxing in MMA

Snowden’s comments on this past MMANation helped me to understand his post better

Articles like Mr. Snowden’s and the vast majority of comments that they seem to produce generally make me stop visiting the site for a few days.