BJ Penn: Anything But Ordinary
by MMABookworm on Aug 29, 2010 10:03 AM EDT
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PrintBJ Penn looked like crap last night.
BJ Penn hasn't lived up to his potential.
BJ Penn is a front runner.
BJ Penn needs a new training camp and a sports psychologist.
BJ Penn talks a lot of smack, and it doesn't always make much sense.
I think we can all agree on these points.
But Mr. Snowden, BJ Penn's career has most certainly been anything but ordinary. He's had by far one of the most extraordinary careers in MMA history.
In fact, that storied career may have led you to pick BJ to win the fight before making this statement post-event:
Many people were shocked by Penn's two losses to Edgar. Not me. Looking carefully at Penn's career leads you to one conclusion-despite his inflated reputation, the extraordinary BJ Penn is merely ordinary
Why didn't you pick Edgar to win if BJ is merely ordinary?
BJ hasn't been the most successful in title fights, but if you're going to sum up the man's career, you may want to consider the following before tossing him under the bus:
1) He is one of only two men to win titles in two different UFC weight classes (kind of a big deal).
2) He successfully defended the lightweight title three times - something never done before.
3) In his 15 career victories, he finished 12 of his opponents, including Matt Hughes, Takanori Gomi, Kenny Florian, and Sean Sherk.
4) His win/loss record is partially a reflection of the top-flight competition he's faced. BJ has never had a gimme fight in his career, except his rematch with Jens Pulver, and he's taken chances like no other.
5) BJ debuted in the UFC. If he started in smaller shows he could easily have 20+ wins on his record and even more impressive finishes.
Now can anyone explain to me what exactly makes BJ Penn ordinary? Because if a guy like BJ Penn is ordinary, what does that say about guys on the level of, say, Kenny Florian? Guys that fought well and fought hard, but never made it to the top - are they just a bunch of hacks?
Yes, BJ is flawed and perhaps could have done more with his natural physical skills, but we can't deny the man's place in MMA history.
***************
P.S. Frankie is pretty damn good. No, that's wrong, the two biggest wins of his career are over that oh-so-ordinary BJ Penn.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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yeah I think everyone is letting the word "dominate" go to their heads also..
Last nights fight was awesome.. But I see posts saying things like.. bj didnt try to change his gameplan (wait didnt he try for takedowns multiple times and hit them?) ..
or how bout bj was getting dominated?? really dominated?? he got taken down.. he lost for sure.. but this wasnt some lamb to the slaughter. it was a great gamer fight..
BJ WAILED edgar with his normal boxing game.. he caught him plenty of times coming in but edgar didnt even faulter.. I think we should be talking about How good frankie edgar’s chin is.. I think most fighters would have wilted but he kept pouring it on for 5 rounds.. That fight was awesome!
by waldog on Aug 29, 2010 10:57 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
he lost every round
but it wasn’t to the level of Sonnen/Silva where Frankie was deserving of 10-8 rounds.
exactly..
yeah that’s kinda my point.. going into the later rounds it was obvious bj was down on points.. was not winning . but it wasnt like he got pounded like vs gsp.
I thought the fight was just awesome.. great standup war, plus td on both sides 3-2 on TDs, 5 rd fight it doesnt get better.
personally I think all the “dominate” talk is just trying to hype frankie gray immediatley to ward off the possible wrestling clinic we might see for the belt next.
lastly im not sure why everyone is saying bj didnt look right? he looks like that all the time before his recent fights…
Edgar IS the blueprint to beat Penn. No one else in the UFC LW dividion could have fought that fight. Frankie has obviously imporved a ton in 2/12 years. Grey cant count on TD and LnP for 5 rounds.
Your beliefs become your reality.
by Hardy's in your face on Aug 29, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
even if you look at his record in the ufc
which doesnt show the level of dominance bj had in the lightweight division you still cant discredit what the man has done outside the ufc.
Theres more to MMA than the UFC and Penn has accomplished more than what 98% of mixed martial artists will accomplish in a lifetime.
Match BJs strength of schedule against any top MMA fighter. Yep he looked like shit last night but the man fights the best out there.
If BJ is done I think Diaz has a shot at the 155 title.
Like what you said about strength of schedule…really the only high level UFC LW that BJ never ran into was Yves Edwards, the only LW that he hadn’t stopped before Edgar was Serra (who played defensive BJJ for the whole fight)
Though I don’t think that Nate Diaz is ready for the top guys at 155 (the wrestlers and Kenny Florian would give him a bunch of trouble) and I think he has said that the cut is hard on him.
And lets not keep saying BJ is done…its not like he’s been crushed over and over.
I think Nate looks a lot better physically at 170. The guy’s only 25 and he might still be filling out.
The question is whether he’ll be better able to deal with wrestlers with a less drastic cut at 170. He had problems with Guida and Stevenson, so I wonder how he’ll do against guys like Hendricks, Ellenberger, Foster, Story, Pierce, etc.
I think Nate should add some lean muscle, and stay at 170. His fists seem much less effective at 155.
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
by slapjaw ackrite on Aug 29, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to even mention
Guys like Fitch & GSP, who not only have fantastic takedowns, but also have the grappling acumen to completely shut down any kind of offense DIaz could throw their way.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Aug 29, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s the thing…
I don’t think Frankie is that good. he’s got solid boxing and wrestling but no real KO power, not a submission threat, and he’s undersized. He never looked super impressive except against Penn or maybe Sherk (who went into boxershark mode). I have to say I have a hard time envisioning him being a long-reigning champion against the likes of Maynard, Florian, Soto, Dunham, Melendez if he signs, etc.
These losses really did “expose” Penn in my opinion for being quite overrated.
Goldberg on Leben: One thing's for sure--he really did break that door on the Ultimate Fighter.
Rogan: uh...yeah.
When will people learn
Snowden is a fucking paid troll. He supposedly writes hard hitting controversial articles, but all it really is glorified intelligent trolling for page views. In my opinion hes ruining the reputation of BE, because some of my friends have come here and after reading Snowden’s stuff they think BE is just another one of those stupid websites like MMABay.
by ImmortalTechnique92 on Aug 29, 2010 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
Rec'd
Any intellegent MMA writer should understand that BJ is without a doubt the best LW of all time. Period. Nobody calls Randy Coture overrated because big grapplers tooled him so badly that he went to LHW. It’s obvious, and I’d go as far to say that if the article in question was a Fan Post, the poster may possibly be warned to not be a troll. Until Frankie Edgar BJ only lost to larger fighters (except for Pulver) and had an impressive couple of runs.
Troll is a bit harsh
I’d say a tad sensationalist… BJ isn’t anywhere near ordinary, 5-5-1 in title fights isn’t anywhere near “pedestrian”, considering the guys he’s faced, etc.
I think that Edgar fought an awesome fight, is unbelievably well rounded, and did the one thing you have to do to BJ Penn- be more diverse than him. Frankie used all 8 points to all 3 target areas in the striking game, grappled & struck well in the clinch & on the ground. BJ is a bit limited in the fact that he almost exclusively uses his hands, mainly in a headhunting attack (occasional bodyshots), his takedowns aren’t world- beater status (although he was able to take Frank down, which I think he should’ve pursued from the beginning), and his ground game is really only exceptional from top control. His bottom game is great, but it’s mainly just active & threatening in a defensive way.
You can read my work over @ http://www.headkicklegend.com/
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Aug 29, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Good article
and I fully agree that anyone who describes Penn as am ‘ordinary’ fighter simply knows nothing about MMA
Travis Lutter is not the Michael Jordan of BJJ
umm
against paul creighton he looked bad, in the first at least
I am forever a TCB pitbull. No one can take that from me. No one. To all my brothers, sisters, and friends at TCB, I will one day come back.
by Michael Jester Morse on Aug 29, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think people are getting too emotional about the word ‘overrated’. Not too long ago BJ was unanimously considered one of the pound for pound best. He is not considered so any more. The rating has been adjusted. That’s not to say that BJ is/was not phenomenal; it’s simply an acknowledgement that the estimation of him as a fighter has diminished. I don’t think anyone would argue with the fact that his reputation has diminished over the last year or two.
Good Article
BJ Pennis an extraordinary MMA fighter.Anyone with half a brain knows this
Jonathan Snowden however is a less than ordinary MMA writer.
I was gonna buy his book but after reading some of his ridiculous articles on here,i won’t waste my money.
Anyone think that...
BJ Penn’s left ear looked in-ordinately f-ed up on Saturday? Like, go out and get some reconstructive surgery bad.
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