Who Is James Toney? Understanding the Boxing Great Before UFC 118

by Luke Thomas on Aug 24, 2010 11:01 AM EDT in MMA News

Steve Kim of MaxBoxing.com joined me on MMA Nation on 106.7 The Fan to help provide an answer.

I felt it was only appropriate to have a more established member of the boxing journalism community who has followed the long arc of Toney's career give MMA fans and aficionados a better understanding of who Toney is, who he has beaten in boxing, how he's done it and what that portends for this Saturday night as he makes his MMA debut in very deep UFC waters.

What's clear from talking to Kim is that Toney is a brilliant salesman, at times a troubled athlete, a surefire boxing hall of famer and, sadly, a desperate man. But for all his present desperation, Toney is a highly accomplished athlete worthy of admiration. It's easy to mock Toney's current state, but he's built himself to this point on the backs of highly credible wins against highly skilled opposition for many years at the highest level. If Toney is due disregard for poor career decisions, he's owed as much for brilliant athletic performances.

The interview can be listened to here for those using mobile devices.

Audio player of the full interview here:

Full transcript below:

LT: Alright, with us on the line right now, he is making his second appearance on the show, 'cause he did a good job the first time and he's got a lot to say. A writer for MaxBoxing.com, he's gonna help us understand James Toney, who takes on Randy Couture at UFC 118 next weekend. The inimitable Steve Kim. Steve, how are you, sir?

SK: I am well, and you're speaking to a big Rowdy Roddy Piper fan from back in the day.

LT: Are you serious?

SK: I was a kid. I thought it was real at one point. I watched a lot of wrestling as a kid, I do admit that, yeah.

LT: Well, as a kid I watched it, too, but at some point I think I was like "well, I think I like things that are real."

SK: Yeah, there's no doubt. I mean, you're talking to someone who went to WrestleMania 2 at the Sports Arena in L.A. So I admit, I used to be a former wrestling fan.

LT: Well, let's get right down to it, Steve. I have noticed on the message boards and some of the bigger sites in boxing and our sister site Bad Left Hook at SB Nation-- the Toney talk is picking up, and it's kind of changing a little bit. In your mind, to what extent is there interest in at least watching this Couture-Toney fight? And what would you say is the-- you know, listen, everyone's got a different opinion, but what is the general attitude in the boxing community about this upcoming fight?

SK: I think, at the very least, there is some intrigue. 'Cause, let's face it, there's always been that argument over who would win. I think that James is way out of his element here, but I think one thing James Toney has done is really talk up this event. The guy knows how to promote an event, how to draw headlines, and I think Dana White's gotten exactly what he wanted out of this. But is there interest? Yeah, there is a curiosity factor that exists. Saturday, we'll be out there watching some other fights and if we can somehow switch over and watch James Toney against Randy Couture... I think that there's gonna be people, whether they admit it or not, that wanna see just how James Toney fares. You know, James is a character, there's no doubt about that. One day he will be in the Hall of Fame, but he's a guy that's very boisterous, he's very brash, so I think that he's created a lot of interest for himself. But, yeah, there is a curiosity at the very least.

LT: Alright. For folks who may not know who James Toney is -- for the MMA fan who is not accustomed to or interested in watching boxing but now would like to know more about James Toney -- if you could explain to them "who is James Toney?," what would you say?

SK: James Toney is a highly skilled fighter who had some problems with discipline, who began his career as a middleweight and ends it as a 225-pound heavyweight that had a lot of problems in terms of discipline, but was really almost like a savant in terms of his fighting skill. But he also was known for being a very, very brash, colorful personality who was not afraid to speak his mind. He's a guy that would get in your face, in very funny ways, too. He'd always refer to me as "the Chinese boxing writer," knowing that I was Korean. He's actually a funny guy, you know, but that's what James Toney is. You know, I actually think MMA could use more personalities like James, and what's interesting is that James would not be the type of-- You know, one thing I notice about the UFC is that there seems to be almost-- I don't wanna say a "fear," but there seems to be a reluctance from anyone to speak out against Dana White, especially from the fighters' perspective, because they're kinda locked into these contracts and he's the commissioner and the legislative body all in one. James Toney is not a wallflower, and he would absolutely go after Dana White. I think it'd make for some very interesting copy.

LT: At his peak, what are some of the more notable wins on James Toney's ledger?

SK: Well, his notable wins came a long time ago, starting back in the early '90s. He was the first guy to beat Michael "Second To" Nunn, a very good boxer, came in as a underdog, and I think it was in Davenport, Iowa, on a pay-per-view show. He knocked him out and then he went on a run from 160 to 168. He beat a lot of guys on HBO and then he went through a little bit of a spell where discipline became a problem and he came in grossly out of shape for his fight with Roy Jones, which was, I believe, his first professional loss. And then, you know, he went through a spell where he was kinda going in and out of the consciousness. What he'll be best remembered for, I think within this century, was his heavyweight run and his cruiserweight run. He was involved in a great fight, just a back-and-forth battle with Vassiliy Jirov for the IBF cruiserweight title that he won, and then he was able to beat Evander Holyfield, he beat John Ruiz for one of the major titles and then subsequently lost it because he was busted for steroids. So it's been a star-crossed career when it comes to James Toney.

LT: And how would you describe his boxing style? For folks who know James Toney, he's got a real kind of-- he flashes the jab, he's known for the shoulder rolling, but explain that to MMA fans. And again, he might not fight this way come Saturday, but in boxing, how would you describe James Toney's style?

SK: I would describe it as a counterpuncher. He's not a guy-- number one, he's not really a guy that's in top physical condition at all times, he's not a guy that's gonna come forward and be frenetic and chase guys down. He's gonna be a guy who's kinda gonna plant his feet and he's gonna react off you. You mentioned the shoulder roll. The one thing he likes to do is he likes to neutralize your right hand. He hides that chin very well and he hides it behind the shoulder and he rolls it. So one thing he always tries to do -- and I've noticed this from being in the gym with him many times at the Wild Card -- he loves for you to lead with that right hand, and he will roll it and he'll come back with his own shot. That's one thing where I think Randy Couture is gonna have some difficulty. If he is going to rush James Toney and attack him, I think that suits James Toney just fine. And, obviously, Randy Couture is gonna go and dive at the legs. I can't imagine him trying to do anything over the top, but what James Toney wants you to do is to be pro-active in your offensive approach. He wants you to lead, and if Randy Couture's not careful, I think he's gonna catch a right hand counter. And I don't know how good Randy Couture's chin is, but that's probably the biggest factor. The one thing I worry about James Toney is, you know, he was a high school quarterback, he has good physical strength, but I think it remains to be seen of any boxer - how effective are they when they get on the ground?

LT: I can tell you: not very.

SK: Yeah, exactly.

LT: But here's my question: relative to his peers even now, but also throughout his career, how is his power? I mean, I'm sure it's nothing to sleep on. The guy's record is incredible. I've seen many of his fights. I'm just sort of asking for the casual fan's benefit here. How would you assess his knockout power?

SK: Well, to put it as a baseball analogy, he certainly wouldn't be Mark McGwire circa 1998, but he's the type of guy-- Power, from one to ten, I would rate it somewhere around a seven or an eight. He was more of a volume puncher that relied a lot on accuracy and timing, and that's the one thing he was very good at, was timing you. But was he considered at any weight class a one-punch knockout artist? No, that was never the case.

LT: In your estimation-- and again, the four-ounce MMA gloves are only really designed to protect the knuckles of the fighter throwing the punch. They're not really designed for any other purpose. In your mind, what does that do to James Toney's hand speed and power, given that he is 40-plus and the most recent training pictures did not look like he was gonna be running any Iron Man Triathlons any time soon?

SK: Yeah, he wasn't gonna make the cover of Muscle & Fitness, I agree with you on that. In just reading some of his comments, he likes those small gloves. You talk to most fighters that don't have hand problems -- and he's never really had 'em -- they like the small gloves. Number one, it's easier to make a fist. Number two, you can become a much faster, more accurate puncher with the smaller amount of leather. I think the power is accentuated and that's the one thing about guys who have been in wrestling, like Randy Couture, you know, they don't really take a punch as well as boxers. Boxers are accustomed and trained to take punches from a very early beginning. I think that James Toney, if you are to believe what he says, he loves the small gloves. He thinks it makes him faster and he feels as though his hand should be illegal. I think that one advantage he would have is that the smaller gloves definitely suit his style.

LT: I can tell you about Randy Couture's chin. When he first got into MMA -- and he got in when he was, you know, 34 -- his chin at that point was nothing short of spectacular. It's just a matter of physics. Kicks, thrown properly, are always gonna be harder than punches. They just are. Particularly Muay Thai, which impacts with the shin and not the foot. And he was able to take some of those flush in the ribs and the chin and sort of walk through them. Now, he's 47 now. It's a much shakier proposition. That being said, what he is good at is, after he gets nailed, he's a fantastic scrambler and a great recovery kind of guy, which a lot of folks don't really have. They get hit and they get bewildered. He doesn't really have that problem. I wanna go back to something you said, though. You rated Toney's power seven-eight. Who's a ten? Who would you classify as a ten?

SK: Well, wow, in today's game, I gotta tell you, the two Klitschko brothers, even though they have a cautious style, when they hit you, if you look at their knockout percentages, it's among the highest in boxing history. Which is funny, because the Klitschkos have acquired probably a well-deserved reputation of not being the most exciting fights, 'cause the process leading up to the knockout is usually not very compelling. But you look at their knockout percentages, among the highest in heavyweight history. I would certainly say that those guys are nines and tens in terms of pure power. If you go back to the past - and I don't know if your audience will recognize these names - guys like Bob Foster, great light-heavyweight, he could really knock people out cold. Tommy Hearns, I'm sure they've heard of him.

LT: Sure.

SK: I would say Marvin Hagler is probably a notch below Tommy in terms of pure one-punch power. Julian Jackson was a guy with just devastating power, just really, really heavy hands. Punchers are born, they're not made, that's something I've learned from the very beginning in this sport of boxing. You cannot teach power in boxing. You can clean up technique, but you cannot turn an average puncher into a devastating one. It just really doesn't work that way. James is a guy that, I look back at his career and he hasn't had that many startling, one-punch knockouts. It's always been really done through attrition and one combination after another.

LT: Let's talk about... I don't know, let's start with the Hasim Rahman fight. This was March of 2006. From that point forward, he has had a very strange career. He dropped two fights to Samuel Peter and then he had a draw and a no contest with Hasim Rahman. He beat Fres Oquendo, I don't really know what that says. Then he beat a nobody in Matthew Greer. Where is James Toney's boxing career? The last time you were here, you said he had trouble getting fights because he still is kind of viable, but if you look at his record and you include the several steroid violations - the Ruiz fight, he had another steroid issue with the Danny Batchelder fight - you know, can he still box? Where is he?

SK: Yeah, you know, again, I actually tweeted one time, I said "looks like James Toney is fighting for the biggest check he can get." And someone pointed out to me, "y'know, Steve, he's only fighting for the check he can get, period." You know, there's no doubt about it that if he had an offer on the table that paid him a certain amount, decent, because he's not unrealistic about his value but he wasn't gonna fight for free either. And by the way, that Oquendo fight, he looked horrible. I thought he lost that fight, by the way. But this much is true: if he was a relevant, viable heavyweight right now and had offers on the table and there was something that Dan Goossen, his boxing promoter, could do for him, there's no doubt in my mind that he would not be doing this. Is this an act of desperation from a desperate man? Yes. It's that simple.

LT: Again, if you've just joined the show we're talking with Steve Kim of MaxBoxing.com. You can follow him on Twitter at "stevemaxboxing." Alright, is it me or is James Toney impossible to understand?

SK: You know what's funny, I actually saw something-- is it true that the UFC put out a video with him talking with subtitles?

LT: They did.

SK: Oh, wow. (laughs) That's funny. You know, I've covered James for a lot of years, so I'm kinda used to it, but I'll admit it: when I put my tape recorder on and then I go to my office to transcribe it, I hit the rewind button more than once. Again, we're talking about a guy who's boxed for most of his life, and it's not even the fights that really effect you guys, it's the sparring. Round after round. You spar at least two, three times a week and you get your head jarred a lot. That's one of the misnomers about headgear. Headgear does not protect the brain. The headgear is there to protect from cuts if fighters should clash against each other, but the notion that a blow can be softened by a headgear is absolutely not true. That's been neurologically proven. And the one thing that I never agreed with, even his own trainer Freddie Roach, that in place of hard training -- traditional training like running, doing exercises, not eating a lot -- James would really spar his way to a fight. I've never seen a guy spar so much, and he was so good at it that he would never really hit the heavy bag, didn't like doing the mitts all that often, didn't do many calisthenics. He liked to spar an inordinate amount of rounds and days. That was kind of his way of cheating his way towards a fight and, you know, if he's slurring that badly where people are now having to put subtitles on interviews, you know, you look at that condition and I certainly don't wish him any ill will. You know, it's probably not going to get any better.

LT: Listen, if Toney wins on Saturday, all bets are off. It's gonna be pandemonium. But if it goes like most MMA fans think it's gonna go, and like I think it's probably gonna -- I mean, I will never rule out anything from James Toney, but if I was betting my mortgage on it, I'm betting on an absolute drubbing courtesy of Randy Couture -- if it goes that way -- and, now, Randy Couture is not a polarizing figure, but if it does go that way and this whole thing's been marketed as "UFC vs. Boxing," will this inflame tension between the MMA and boxing communities worse than it is now? Will it force a larger war that'll, if for no other reason, will be good for headlines and press articles? What do you see as the fallout should James Toney lose as MMA fans expect him to lose?

SK: You know, I don't think the fans will be-- I think there's a lot of people that like both, that are combat fans in general, and I think that there is-- I don't know if I want to call it a "minority," but there's certainly a segment that are either black or white. There's no grey area with these people. I think what's gonna happen if Couture wins this fight as expected, I think Dana White is gonna use it as a marketing tool. I don't think there's any doubt about that. I don't think there's any doubt that Dana White's gonna say, "this again proves our superiority to our product, to our combatants as to why our sport is better." Not so sure what really that proves, but that's what I think is gonna happen. As for the fans themselves, you know, boxing fans understand one thing. It's that what they're watching is a form of combat, and so is the MMA or the UFC. You know, did it really prove anything that Michael Jordan was a .218 hitter for the Birmingham Barons in baseball? You can make your argument which sport is better, baseball or basketball, but I don't think Michael Jordan failing as a double- or triple-A ball player really proved much in terms of either sport. You're gonna have people that like basketball, you're gonna have people that like baseball, and you're gonna have a lot of people that probably like both. I don't think that the needle will significantly shift in either direction as it relates to that argument, not based on this fight.

LT: Steve, we're up against a break. Real quickly: your percentage chance of James Toney winning Saturday night?

SK: I'd say 10% and he'd better knock him out cold real fast or I think it goes downhill from there.

LT: Steve Kim is a writer for MaxBoxing.com, always does a great job on this show whenever we talk boxing we like to have Steve back on. Steve, great job, thanks a lot and I guess we'll see what happens on Saturday, alright?

SK: Absolutely, guys, let's keep in touch. Have a great night.

LT: Take care, buddy.

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Comments

Ha, I love the dudes head poking out from the bottom of the image.

by nastyem on Aug 24, 2010 11:18 AM EDT reply actions

By dude..

Do you mean Roy Jones Jr?

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by JCS_FM on Aug 24, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions

Apparently he loves being on his knees between these two champions

by deepbeep on Aug 24, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks for the transcription Luke. Good interview.

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by grizzlyatoms on Aug 24, 2010 11:21 AM EDT reply actions

Bitter this post isn't getting more comments

Could be just me, but I think this is sick ass info.

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by Luke Thomas on Aug 24, 2010 11:37 AM EDT reply actions

A real good read. As a combat sports fan that got into boxing after mma (around the pride era) almost all of this new info to me. Fun interview, it makes me excited for the fight, as well as i want to check out some of Toney’s old fights, especially the Roy Jones Jr. and Evander Holyfield fights!

by Swordstorm on Aug 24, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions

I don’t know enough about Toney (or boxing, really) to add anything except jokes about his takedown defense.

But it is a great interview. I really like that there’s no steering around the questions here, and every answer is a solid chunk of information.

"You hear people say, 'You're the greatest,' and all this stuff. It's BS. It's fake, it's all fake. You've just got to keep training as hard as you can. The only thing real is the fight, everything else is fake." - BJ Penn

by crazybones on Aug 24, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions

Yeah...

it was really interesting.

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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 24, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions

It's great info

I was listening the other night. Steve Kim is a wealth of info and a real talker

The most interesting part to me was hearing about how Toney sparred his way into a speech impediment.

The first few minutes of this fight are going to be incredibly tense. I hope couture can stave off being KTFO

by nastyem on Aug 24, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions

I liked it

But don’t really have much to add. There isn’t anything flame worthy in the article so no comments. Maybe if Kid Nate had written it we could have had some people saying it was anti-zuffa because of the stuff about standing up to Dana

by SES 84 on Aug 24, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions

This was more of a "sit down and listen" post

than a discussion post. I thought it was a great interview, and I have nothing valuable or insightful to add.

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by pdl on Aug 24, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions

It's a great read

and after which, I thought, “Wow, I learned a lot.”

But it’s like at the end of a presentation at work when the presenter asks, “Any questions?” Nope, not really. You covered anything I could possibly ask.

"I got a good Christian raising and a 8th grade education / Ain't no need in y'all in treating me this way." - Billy Joe Shaver

by duck on Aug 24, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions

I don’t know how many views it has had but some things just don’t generate comments when most people reading it agree with what was said and don’t have much to add to it. If he was talking about how Toney is going to Pwn Randy I bet you’d have a shit ton of comments.

by YoungGun on Aug 24, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Great Interview!!!

by knowone on Aug 25, 2010 6:17 AM EDT up reply actions

Excellent interview Luke

I’m only a very casual boxing fan and there’s some great information in there. Where was Holyfield at in his career when Toney beat him?

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by ChillMike on Aug 24, 2010 11:59 AM EDT reply actions

Way over the hill.

Sad thing is he is still fighting today

by KyleAskine on Aug 24, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions

I think he was like 41 years old...

but well shot. I’m going off the top of my head but I think Evander was like 2-3 in his last 5 fights or something like that heading in.

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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 24, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions

great interview

this fight will be like kimbo v. mercer. Randy has a ton of respect for Toney and will not try to stand with him for even a second. Forget the shit that the fans are talking on both sides. I’m sure real MMA guys learned a lot from Mercer’s two MMA fights. You do not stand and trade, even for ten seconds, with a boxer.

by Clifford J on Aug 24, 2010 12:00 PM EDT reply actions

Kimbo was swinging away at Mercer in the beginning. Mercer just completely covered up his face iwth both hands to block the haymaker looking shots Kimbo was throwing. When he did that Kimbo grabbed him and took him down.

by YoungGun on Aug 24, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions

great interview listened to it live

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by MaZZacare on Aug 24, 2010 12:15 PM EDT reply actions

Loved the interview

As a casual boxing fan, all of this info really helped me get a better picture of who Toney is, thanks for this!

I apologize for my never-ending assault on the English Language. I feel like Qui the promoter from Jade Empire...

by xAtlasx on Aug 24, 2010 12:23 PM EDT reply actions

Learned more about Toney here than I have in all the other videos he and the UFC has put out. Looking forward to seeing how this fight goes.

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by JeremyShane on Aug 24, 2010 12:26 PM EDT reply actions

Randys chin might be a little suspect, but when he gets dropped, for the most part, he doesn’t go to sleep. Toney won’t be able to pound him out even if he does manage to clip him.

So at worst I see Randy getting clipped, Toney trying to capitalize, and Randy reversing then slapping a choke on him.

by RoB_ex on Aug 24, 2010 12:40 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

At least then he could say he fights like Fedor.

by deepbeep on Aug 24, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions

This is a solid interview. what’s interesting is that boxrec.com has Toney listed as soemthing like the 52nd best HW in the world. But it seems he has a huge amount of natural talent, meaning we may get an out-of-shape, harmless Toney set to be massacred, or if he’s more motivated he can actually pose a (small) threat to Randy.

Nice breakdown, thanks for taking a lot of time to transcribe that.

by TLow on Aug 24, 2010 1:02 PM EDT reply actions

Great Interview

As a boxing fan prior to becoming a devout mma fan, I really enjoy information such as this. I also think that every mma fan can really benefit from reading/listening to interviews such as this. Is it me or is James Tony somewhat like B.J. Penn when it comes to motivation?

Nope

by NaciremaDream on Aug 24, 2010 1:11 PM EDT reply actions

No...

Penn is kind of lazy sometimes….Toney is fat and refused to make so much as a cut to 220 pounds for this fight. He’s like 30-40 pounds over where it would make sense for him to be fighting if he had the motivation.

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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 24, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions

I think BJ realizes that he has an amazing talent and tries to stay motivated to be the best and sometimes can take things for granted because he is so talented. Toney knows he is talented but doesn’t do much to enhance his skills to be the best that he could possibly be.

There are several naturally gifted athletes that do struggle with working hard to live up to their potential because everything comes so easy. Toney is at the end of the pendulum and BJ swings into the realm of taking it for granted sometimes but now that he’s older and has that crazy extreme strength and conditioning coach he’s shown that he has evolved. If it was true I chalk up a lot of BJ’s last performance to having the sinus infection plus being outside in the F’ing desert.

by YoungGun on Aug 24, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes that is very true. I meant to imply that they are both natural athletes and sometimes are too stubborn to live up or train to their potential. Although with B.J. recently I think he has become the B.J. Penn that we all knew he could be.

Nope

by NaciremaDream on Aug 24, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions

I only watch the livestream so this was cool

He laid it all out there that’s for sure. Really cool how he did that with no bull shit

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by II SMASH II on Aug 24, 2010 1:15 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

steve kim do your research!

Fact is Toney was a 200 pound football player in high school, he starved himself down to 160, a dangerously low weight. Freddie Roach says he passed out to make a lightheavyweight bout, which is 175! Toney beat the shit out of Jirov and Holyfield, both bout where he weighed north of 200 pounds. The notion a fat middleweight could drop both Holyfield and Jirov is bullshit.

by sheikybaby on Aug 24, 2010 1:40 PM EDT reply actions

Whatever weight he is in that picture above with Whitaker is roughly the size he should be. Not the rotund shape you see now.

I don’t think having a gut automatically means he is out of shape and will gas. Having bulging muscles is more of a sign that you’re going to be susceptible to gassing.

by YoungGun on Aug 24, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Anyone can naturally get bigger.

the concept of ‘frames’ is extremely exaggerated in the minds of most people.

If you look at most athletes/bodybuilders you’ll see that at one point they were either small or much smaller. People seem to think that there is a certain size that each of someone should be naturally. There is some truth to it, but not much. A person with a large frame is only about 10% larger than a person with an average frame.

This is based on elbow width and wrist circumference, not shoulder and hip width. Practically anyone gain a lot of mass around the shoulders and hips under the right conditions, giving them a ‘bigger frame’.

In short, if you put more muscle on your shoulders or hips, you become wider. Anyone can do this. I’ve seen a grown man go from a small 130lbs to 210lbs of solid muscle (18.5" arms) in 10 years. If he had never done any weight training he would have gained a little size, but nowhere near the massive size he is now.

"I trained with Steven Seagal."

by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 24, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions

I should note:

Elbow width and wrist circumference, relative to height and age.

"I trained with Steven Seagal."

by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 24, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Even when he fought Holyfield at 217 he didn’t really look that bad…Definitely looked like he could make 205 with the proper nutrition without dropping muscle mass.

by YoungGun on Aug 24, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Definitely

I think,that would be the best thing for his career. If he could get back down to cruiser weight , he could probably get some fights.

"I trained with Steven Seagal."

by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 24, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions

I like

how on the radio show you said you stopped watching pro wrestling because “you think you started liking things that are real” as opposed to what you said on here which was, “I discovered girls titties.” That’s interesting.

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by Geno Mrosko on Aug 24, 2010 1:46 PM EDT reply actions

Luke Thomas does not approve of fake titties.

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by pdl on Aug 24, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions

If they exist, they’re real.

by Rufford on Aug 24, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions

The only titties I care about

are titties I can suck on. Mmmmm. Titty.

"I trained with Steven Seagal."

by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 24, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions

I will take the Izzo (H.O.V.A.) approach to this.

by Brent Ducharme on Aug 24, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Interesting that the most of the damage a fighter accumulates is from sparring. That’s new to me.

by Rufford on Aug 24, 2010 1:47 PM EDT reply actions

"Punchers are born, they're not made,"

That’s a fact. MMA really proves the rule too. Look at guys like Hendo or Gomi, wrestlers with right hands that will knock your head off.

In boxing, the playing field is more even. Just cause there’s so many styles of boxing, some based around having an untouchable defense.

"I trained with Steven Seagal."

by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 24, 2010 1:48 PM EDT reply actions

Best defensive boxers of all time

Some of these guys make Anderson look like a punching bag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPjl1PUngPI

"I trained with Steven Seagal."

by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 24, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Nice video.

Naseem playing shows that A. Silva can definitely improve his clowning game.

by Rufford on Aug 24, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Nice interview

Good stuff.

I would have to think that by improving your technique you can improve your power a significant amount. Speed and precision are often more important than sheer “power” in any event and both can be improved on through practice. Throwing incredibly hard but inaccurate punches isn’t going to get you anywhere.

"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.

by The Darkness on Aug 24, 2010 1:59 PM EDT reply actions

If you practice your overhand right,

you can put it on somebody’s chin 8/10.

Its not about throwing wild punches. Some guys’ body mechanics just generate more power than others. Look at Paul Daley and Dan Hardy, both guys have great technique, but Paul is a natural puncher. A lanky build can be powerful too. Guys like A Silva or Bones Jones. In boxing you see a lot of lanky punchers.

"I trained with Steven Seagal."

by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 24, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions

I feel like A Silva’s power comes from his accuracy primarily. When he hits people and they fall, it’s because he’s hit their chin. (It’s not like Semmy Schilt (SP?) bouncing a jab off some guys forehead or nose and his going down. That’s power that comes partly from technique but also partly from Semmy’s being a bohemoth.) Jones hasn’t demonstrated any power as far as I know.

I think if they really studied what makes someone a good puncher they’d find that it’s 20-30% genetics and body structure (the sorts of things you largely can’t change) and 70-80% technique, strength and other things that you largely can. I say this because in all sorts of endeavors you see people (e.g., chess, math, golf) mistake natural talent for what is actually primarily hard (and smart) work over a long period.

This is obviously all highly speculative.

"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.

by The Darkness on Aug 24, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Even a 5% genteic advantage is huge at the world class level.

"I trained with Steven Seagal."

by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 24, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions

one thing:

At birth we’re all born with a certain % of fast twitch muscle fibers vs slow twitch fibers.
People with a high percentage of fast twitch will be naturally much more explosive than an even pro athletes with a high % of slow twitch fibers.

A marathon runner with excellent technique would not punch as hard as a sprinter with bad technique, usually. Of course there are exceptions. We now know that there are actually there types of fibers. Type I(slow twitch), Type IIa (combo/fast twitch), Type IIb(fast twitch.)
Type IIa is uncommon in humans.

"I trained with Steven Seagal."

by B.H. Farnsworth on Aug 24, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions

the tension between the MMA and Boxing community is simply lame

Great Interview!

I don’t even see why people entertain the issue.
Many MMA fighters enjoy watching boxing.
Many boxers enjoy watching MMA.

- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!

by VeeisAnimated on Aug 24, 2010 2:32 PM EDT reply actions

Great interview. Really great. I like how honest Kim was, as well.

I agree with Kim on his opinion about what would Couture’s or Toney’s win do for their own sport and I don’t think it would do much. It’s like if Anderson fought Roy Jones Jr. and beat him it wouldn’t really mean anything and vica versa.

I think if Toney keeps his shoulder rolled, wouldn’t that make him more susceptible to leg kicks and takedowns?

This interview actually made me feel a bit bad for Toney. He can’t get fights, he’s marred by the steroids he’s taken and as Kim described him, he’s a “desperate” man. It’s sad, but he dug his own grave. At least with Couture he stays in shape all the time, he invested his money into creating an amazing gym, movies, and no steroids (at least it doesn’t appear that way).

by Keren on Aug 24, 2010 3:12 PM EDT reply actions

I enjoyed the read too, but I can tell you—MMA fans seem to be taking this fight a lot more seriously than boxing fans!

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Aug 24, 2010 7:05 PM EDT reply actions

It is a MMA fight, after all

Plus we know you donks are going to KILL us if Toney wins ;)

Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.

by Luke Thomas on Aug 24, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Plus we know you donks are going to KILL us if Toney wins ;)

I’ve been a huge Toney fan for many years, through his ups and downs. I think my very first story at Bad Left Hook, posted right after Scott (and Brent?) started it up was a defense of Toney. But I don’t give him much of a shot at all, for all the reasons everyone has said. The only thing I see going for James is his accuracy (I think rating him a 7 or 8 out of 10 in power as SK did is overly generous), which could translate well with the smaller gloves. He needs to hit Randy with a short inside right. But at odds of +400 (last I checked) Couture strikes me as a wise bet, and I might even lay some down on him!

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Aug 25, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions