M-1 Global's Vadim Finkelstein Says Fedor Emelianenko Could Fight in Japan or Russia This December
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 24, 2010 2:22 AM EDT
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M-1 Global's Vadim Finkelstein talked to Championat.Ru (translated by LowKick) about their plans for Fedor Emelianenko's next bout. It seems like they're dead set on having his last contracted Strikeforce bout to be against Werdum, and if he can't fight him because of the injury, they would rather go to Japan or Russia next:
We plan to organize an interim fight for Fedor. We are considering two options: Japan and Russia. We have a lucrative offer from the Japanese partners, who are interested in Fedor fighting on the New Year's Eve. This is the most interesting option for us. But we are also not exluding an option that Fedor Emelianenko will fight in Russia, sometime in December. We have to organize another fight for Fedor, as Fabricio Werdum is currently injured and no one knows when he will come back. Strikeforce have absolutely nothing against the rematch, that's exactly why we are planning the last fight on Fedor's contract to be against Werdum.
...
There are some proposals. But I'll say it again, we are ready to organize co-promotion with any organization that is ready to meet our demands. We have repeatedly expressed our desire to organize a joint show, even with the same UFC, but all in vain. We are ready to fight with the strongest and to co-operate with worthy.
When asked about three other fights he would like for Fedor, he doesn't say Alistair Overeem or "Big foot" Silva. Instead, Vadim mentions Josh Barnett, and 2 fights that have almost zero chance of happening:
Of course, this is Brock Lesnar. But this fight will never happen. UFC President Dana White will always delay the fight between Fedor and Lesnar, finding more and more excuses. They offered us a one-sided contract, under which all rights for Fedor will belong to the UFC. Of course, this turn of events did not suit us, so we tried to compromise by offering to organize a joint show. And you know how it ended. Now this fight can be only dream. Randy Couture is also a very interesting opponent - he's a living legend of MMA, as well as Josh Barnett. Well, of course, fight with Werdum, who, unlike all the above, will be required.
After the jump, see what Alistair Overeem has to say about this.
Before you put out your pitchforks and say that Fedor doesn't want that mega-fight against Overeem, the Strikeforce Heavyweight Champion talked to mixfight.nl and said that it's not Fedor, blame his management:
It’s not Fedor that is "ducking" people to fight lesser competition. It’s all his management. What M-1 is doing is ridiculous; they are making demands and are using Fedor leverage for every organization. They can’t even organize good shows. If you look at the shows they produce, you would be crazy to do a co-promotion with those guys. It’s amateur level; leave the promoting business to the Americans and the Japanese.
They are also lying. I heard that they made a statement that all of the polls (indicate fans would rather see) Fedor fight Werdum again than a fight with me. I don’t know which websites they are looking at, but all of the polls I have seen said the opposite.
Now that Fedor has lost I hope they can’t "use" Fedor anymore. I honestly think that Fedor isn’t aware of what M-1 is doing to him. Fedor doesn’t care, he has enough money to support his family and he doesn’t care who he fights.
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So sick of this crap
Fedor or more likely Fedor’s managment doesn’t want the Brock fight or the Overeem fight at all .. Randy fight is more of a possibility because Fedor would prob beat Randy .
Other than that they want no more losses for there cash cow
so then Dad goes and turns the knife on her .. then he turns to me and sez ........................................... Why so Serious ??
by RearNakedBloke on Aug 24, 2010 2:28 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
It's Fedor TOO!!
He’s 20% owner of M1-Global which means he has a say and a stake wat the business. I don’t believe he’s afraid of anyone but he wants to build his side business as something to look forward to when he retires.
Perhaps he agrees on why take risky fights which could hurt their brand that is M1-Global. When really the only brand they have is Fedor.
by KillerInstinct on Aug 24, 2010 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They want the Brock fight badly. The UFC is 100% to blame there. Overeem is another story...
Lesnar-Fedor is big money. They want it, but they do not want the UFC to take 80% of the revenue AND lock up Fedor to never fight for M1 or anyone else again. The UFC is making demands that are way, way more lopsided than even Pacquiao/Arum would ask. After seeing Brock’s last two performances, his horrible striking defense makes me think Overeem, Bigfoot, and Cigano are all 50/50 opponents if not favorites vs. Brock, so we don’t even know if the best HW that Fedor can fight is even in the UFC.
The fact is that M1 deserves to take advantage of Fedor. Back in 2007, the UFC offered Fedor a crap contract that even make Fedor state that “the UFC tried to f*** me”. M1 gave Fedor a six fight contract with huge guaranteed income and lots of freedom. Fedor is still on that contract, despite all these UFC nuthugging blog sites saying that Fedor was a free agent after Affliction folded.
I don’t know what’s going on with Overeem, as Werdum’s injury was the perfect excuse to let Fedor fight for the title despite his loss. With Overeem’s wandering eye looking at K1, and Overeem-Silva not being certain either, I can’t say whether M1 is ducking Overeem or Coker is just in a bind, especially with everyone giving him crap about Rogers’ title shot after a loss.
"The UFC is making demands that are way, way more lopsided than even Pacquiao/Arum would ask."
Do you realize MMA and Boxing have two different business models ?
And that wanting to co-promote (50-50 I guess) with the most successfull MMA org are … lopsided demands ?
Do you know what sells pretty well in mma ? those letters : U.F.C
OMG Don't Feed the MINT Troll!
Either that or Mint could be a partial owner of M1-Global. Which would explain his typical soviet style response. Forget the facts and the perception against your arguement. Just deny and point fingers the other way confidently and people will just believe you (yea right).
by KillerInstinct on Aug 24, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Soviet style response?
Who gives their fighter freedom like American capitalism? Who locks their employees into contracts that prevent them from participating in the free market?
I’m pro freedom. In a free market, M1 and Brock’s management get together, negotiate a profit split, and put on a fight unless one of them is a chicken. Under the present conditions, the UFC says, “We get 90% and own Fedor’s fighting ability for life if we choose to do so; otherwise, no deal.”
Well said Overeem.
But man, this shit is getting old, have Overeem vs. Werdum for the championship and Fedor vs Bigfoot, or maybe Barnett (i would love to see Fedor beat the crap out of him)
All in all, M1 is very shady, they dont care about anything more then money, and the more i hear of them, the more i feel sorry for Strikeforce (i used to really like them) and Fedor (again, i really used to like him) and all of this has left a sour taste in my mouth.
"Everyone has a game plan, untell they get hit." -Mike Tyson
Barnett would be wayyyy better than Bigfoot IMO.
I was really looking forward to that fight last summer and Barnett’s test just adds fuel to the storyline.
Fedor vs Barnett was supposed to happen but Josh failed the drug test, so now they will fight in Japan so they don’t have to test at all! Great Story line!
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 24, 2010 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dana White was the one preventing a Fedor/Lesnar fight all along!
Sorry for all the bad things I ever said Vadim.
"Jesus, did somebody dip a baby in jalepenos?" - My Girlfriend
All M-1 demands is co-promotion.
That sounds so reasonable. Why wouldn’t a wildly sucessful organization want to run a joint show where they share profits with a languishing adversary? You sure showed the UFC, Finkelstein.
"Before I do anything I ask myself, "Would an idiot do that?" And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." - Dwight Schrute
by TheGreg on Aug 24, 2010 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
If I started a promotion tomorrow,
would M-1 co-promote with me? Because that’s the equivalent of them asking the UFC to co-promote with them.
by Mandmeisterx on Aug 24, 2010 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Why do you guys ignore the fighters and look at the promotion?
Look at any big boxing fight. Don King, Bob Arum, and De La Hoya don’t get to keep 80% of the profits for major title fights like White and the Fertittas. King has screwed over small time fighters in the past, but major fights are always 50/50, 60/40 etc with maybe 10-20% of the total going to the promoters. You think Cotto only got 20% when he fought Pacquiao? Hell no. Yet what did Cotto’s management do compared to Arum? It just plain doesn’t matter, just like I don’t give a crap who promotes Lesnar/Fedor.
There are hundreds of people in this nation of 300 million that know how to put on a good show but haven’t had the opportunity. There is only one Brock and only one Fedor. The UFC just locks fighters up (IMO this is restraint of trade) and pays them maybe 20% of the revenue at most (do the math, it’s disgusting), and due to their colossal monopoly this is still more than almost anyone else can afford because nobody else has access to the best fighters (totally against American free market philosophy).
M1 is offering Brock/UFC a 50/50 split, despite Fedor being the GOAT HW. Look at Strikeforce: Nashville vs. Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Rogers if you think Fedor has no drawing power. 50/50 is more than fair. However, Dana White is just too selfish. If he can avoid it, he would never do anything to grow MMA revenue outside the UFC, and has sued his own stars to prevent it from happening.
Nobody wants to be a tool in this world if they can help it.
The UFC doesn’t have to offer 50/50 split. Fedor was the best heavyweight at the time, but there is no way that he would be responsible for close to 50% of the revenue of a brock/Fedor fight, so there is no reason for the UFC to think about giving M1 50% of the revenue.
Hence my comment of the UFC being too selfish.
Even 70/30 UFC/M1 would likely appease them. As it is, the offer is in the neighborhood of 10% going to M1/Fedor.
Of course the UFC doesn’t have to offer 50/50. Similarly, Fedor doesn’t have to accept the UFC terms, which is why he didn’t in 2007. WTF is your point?
My point is that if you want to assign blame, look at what’s fair. Don’t look at how much of di*k each party can be in negotiating as that just leaves you running in circles.
But your point is pointless - fair has nothing to do with it
This is not some socialist business model, its a for-profit business.
Fedor can either take the much higher paying deal with the UFC, or he can keep fighting in the minor leagues for about 25% of the money and keep his precious co-promoting…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
BigD is full of truth here.
And Mint… I stopped reading after you wrote this…
(totally against American free market philosophy).
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
Proud BElitest.
by MMArazorback on Aug 24, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Boxing Promoters don't take on anywhere near the costs that MMA promoters do
TV and PPV deals handle all the production and marketing for Boxing. The Boxing promoters don’t even have to hire out the arena. With UFC, it’s all in-house because it started that way when no TV company wanted to help them out. What it does mean though is UFC has complete control of it’s own production.
Because boxing is a model to follow
A sport that has dwindled down so far that you can count the big draws on one hand, and even then, the promoters are so concerned with stupid politics that they can’t make the only fight that anyone has any interest in happen.
This is what you want UFC to emulate? This post here is exactly what happens when you let a bunch of random promoters dictating terms. They pull stupid shit out of their ass, pick fights, or just decide to go fight somewhere else. Basically you’re saying you wish UFC was bent over a barrel while their fighters fucked around in Japan like Strikeforce is. Genius
Also the notion that Fedor is a huge draw is laughable. He’s never sold over 200K ppvs. Even with opponents that had big names built off of the UFC. Brock has never sold UNDER 600k PPVs, lately seems to average over 1 million. Why exactly is Fedor worth as much again? Because you put him atop the rankings at your blog?
Brock has never sold UNDER 600k PPVs
… while in the UFC.
He sold about 15K PPVs when he was working for FEG at Dynamite USA.
Good point
Further adding to the fact that Brock and the UFC are really what people are paying to see, and not M-1 or Fedor.
The problem with thinking Fedor is a draw is
That probably 90% of the hardcore fans who know who he is are already purchasing most of the UFC PPVs and their numbers would not add significantly to the totals.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Read Steve4192's reply.
Brock has done even less than Fedor without the UFC. Those names Fedor fought really weren’t that big at the time. Sylvia was never a draw. Arlovski never drew more than 125k until his losses to Sylvia, which were in 2006 and didn’t make any fans.
Fedor-Lesnar will do big numbers with or without the UFC. They’re both well known now, and MMA gets exposure everywhere. CBS did 5.5M with Fedor and under 3M without. That’s a colossal difference. Even if we’re talking about 2M buys with the UFC and 1M without, having 80% of ppv+gate go to fighters instead of 20% makes all the difference to Fedor, Brock, and M1.
All I want is the revenue split to be like boxing. I don’t care that the NHL, NFL, NBA, MLB monopolize their sports, because you get over 50% of revenue going to athletes. If UFC did this, great. Let them have all the fighters. Since they don’t, I want someone else to step up, because in a free market someone will. Affliction tried to pay their fighters, but again the UFC monopoly screwed them over because they had no depth. They couldn’t deal with Barnett dropping out, and the few names they had were fading in recognition. $3M+ gate and ~150k PPV buys is pretty decent.
Boxing is fading because it’s just not nearly as entertaining to the younger generations as MMA. It just feels empty when you know there are guys out there fighting instead of just one dimensional punching with big gloves and restrictive rules. Boxing did fine for decades with the free market model. Don’t blame that for boxing’s demise when it clearly is the emergence and regulation of a superior form of prizefighting.
So after noting that both guys who you think are big draws can’t draw outside of the UFC, your logic is that they should be fighting outside of the UFC?
Boxing is your model huh? So you want a dozen guys to be making 90% of the available money while everyone else works for peanuts?
Nevermind the fact that boxing promoters love to play the game of talking about how much money their fighter is getting paid because they’re trying to lure other fighters, where UFC is all one promotion and, like your job, the boss isn’t telling everyone what everyone else is making.
Can you please break down how you’re determining how much money the UFC is giving fighters, and your sources? I’d love to get a look at your insider info since you’re breaking down the percentages and all.
What on earth do you think happens in the UFC?
Outside of the top 20 or so, the rest of the fighters probably take home less than 2% of the UFC’s revenue. Do the math and stop making shit up. The UFC has over $300M in revenue in the last few years. Take away the top 2-3 salaries from each card, and you’re way, way under $5M total payroll for the year.
The difference with boxing is that the stars make way less money because the UFC takes most of it.
There’s nothing insider about my numbers. Look at Couture’s contract to see what the best PPV cuts are. Look at the disclosed salaries and use a calculator.
Numbers, please
Break down where you’re getting the UFC’s revenue per card, and the fighter pay per card. I’m not going to do the legwork to prove your invalid point. You’re making the claim, back it up. Just saying the numbers are there doesn’t make them there.
Then that's your fault
I’m not going to do everything for you. Use google and wikipedia if you doubt my numbers.
The UFC gets around 8M ppv buys per year:
http://www.watchkalibrun.com/2009/12/31/1227359/ufc-pay-per-view-buys-for-2009
They probably get $30 per ppv. Add in live gate, TV revenue, merchandise and you easily blow past $300M in the last couple years.
If you want to know the salaries for any event, google “ufc XXX salaries”. For example, UFC 94: $500k + undisclosed PPV cut between GSP/Penn, $120k for Machida, $400k for everyone else. It did $4.3M gate and 920k ppv buys. So less than 2% to the lesser fighters.
I don’t have a big problem with lesser guys not making much, because they don’t earn the revenue, though it would be nice if they earned a little more. The main fighters, however, bring in all the $$$, so they really should get paid.
The disclosed salaries from the AC don’t mean shit. Or you believe that Mousasi made $2000 for his last fight?
Does the UFC have a Russian affiliate?
That’s who paid Mousasi.
Why on earth would the UFC hide the pay it’s giving out? They’re always eager to tell you how much they’re giving out in bonuses. Higher numbers make them look good and is good for accounting and tax deductions.
You don’t follow this sport that well do you? Athletic commission reports are only pay that is reported to the athletic commission, the UFC releases no financial information at all, we don’t know what they actually pay fighters or make from PPVs or any sure numbers on anything at all. We do know that several big name fighters have PPV percentages that can make them a million or more per fight (maybe up to 2 million+ for some of Brock’s huge draws). That money is never reported nor is signing bonus money or locker room bonuses that Dana sometimes gives. The money still works for accounting and tax deductions without announcing it publically. For the most part worker pay is kept private in most industries.
Ok if we compare UFC 116 and Pacquiao Cotto they did roughly the same ppv numbers. So say Brock get $2million as an estimate, and the rest of the fighters on the card maybe the same combined which would mean about 600k in undisclosed money for them.
Pacquiao made 22million, Cotto 12million lets ignore the other fighters on that card and assume they worked for free. So my question is where did the missing 30million from ufc 116 go? Fertittas and Danas pockets?
Yes and boxing is in the crapper slowly circling the drain too. Ask how much the undercard boxers on those shows got? You assume they they worked for free but that isn’t as off of an assumption as you think it is. MMA works on a entirely different business model than boxing and for a very good reason, boxing is a corrupt sport that is currently propped up by HBO dumping silly amounts of money into it.
I can't speak for most of your figures, but
The PPV $ amount is wrong – they get approximately 50% of the amount per buy.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It's hard to say
Some say 50/50, some say 60/40. Don’t forget that they get more for HD ppv, and bars pay $500 to $1500. Estimating $30 isn’t unreasonable.
But even if it’s $23, it doesn’t make that much difference to my point. $300M+ and $250M+ are both obscenely large given the payroll.
I doubt they only get 50%. That’s an old number that gets thrown out for simplicity sake. Plus that’s the typical ppv split. In Demand services usually run closer to 60/40 and some are now around 70/30. Averaging 60/40 split in Zuffa’s seems more realistic, especially since this is what a lot of boxing matches get and no one generates more ppv buys then the UFC.
Draws
You are using old data to determine what Brock and Fedor can do without the UFC. Fedor has now had substantial television exposure, and will probably get one more spot on CBS. Brock in 2007 is not Brock today. Hell, MMA today is completely different from MMA then.
In 2011 they will sell themselves. Brock’s stock may go down, though, as UFC 116 confirmed what we saw at UFC 100 – his striking defense is terrible. Originally I though Velasquez was too small, but now I feel he has a chance. If Brock gets by, he will almost certainly lose to Cigano. How that impacts his marketability is anyone’s guess.
You must be the guy convincing Scott Coker that Strikeforce can do a PPV.
Strikeforce can put on a PPV with all of the biggest free agents in the world right now and it won’t break 200K PPV buys. UFC IS MMA in the US.
Non UFC PPVs are about as successful as Arena Football.
Since 2007 approximately...
Before that the UFC was sucking wind. It’s still a very young sport in it’s current form and UFC’s success in it is fairly recent. Most of it is tied to professional wrestling fanboys. They can turn on a dime. Brock gets his ass beat by Cain then they arent tuning in as much. UFC is not the NFL. They do not have that kind of longevity of success yet. That is why fighters who have a history of success are valuable.
by memitim on Aug 24, 2010 5:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
UFC has been sustainable for a while
It was sucking wind in the 90’s, but it’s been rapidly growing for a long time. Even in 2006, EBITDA margin was over 40% according to the S&P.
We'll see
I think Strikeforce can easily break 100k without ANY of the biggest draws in the sport. No GSP, no Penn, no Brock, no Evans/Rampage, etc.
That will do wonders for their revenue, even if it’s 10x less than a good UFC event.
Well...
I think a better run org in Strikeforce’s situation might well be able to do that, but they are so backwards with their one-sided marketing and generally poor promoting that I would be very, very surprised if they did that well unless they are using guys that are draws, but not so much for their skill – Kimbo, Lashley, Walker, throw in Canseco, and Gina maybe + some legit fighters who can market the fight themselves (Mayhem, Diaz, Lawal and the like).
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
They said They Would Drop The Co-Promotion
…to sign a UFC contract. They are looking for co-branding, which basically they get to have the M-1 name on the card. They want to retain the rights to Fedor’s image, and they want guaranteed money. If Lesnar does beat Cain and JDS UFC will have to take that deal. It’s too big a fight not to.
Big for who?
Look at the buyrates for when the PRIDE superstars fight in UFC. CroCop, Wanderlei, Nog…none of these guys have translated into big buys in the US, and neither has Fedor. There’s a base of hardcore fans, and UFC has done a lot to please those fans by signing guys like CC (doesn’t hurt that they have decent overseas appeal) but the reality is nobody in the US knows who the hell Fedor is.
They could do Brock-Mir III (ugh) and it would outsell Brock-Fedor.
So Dana thought
… he could stage the fight in Cowboy Stadium. I think he has a pretty good idea on twhat the market for a Fedor/Brock fight would be. Especially if Fedor avenges his loss handily and Brock beats JDS and Cain. You are not dealing reality when you say Brock-Mir III would outsell Fedor v Brock. Sorry.
He is absolutely dealing with reality.
Brock-Mir 1 & 2 have sold over 2,000,000 PPVs combined. Fedor’s best two PPV outings have sold somewhere around 200,000 PPVs combined. Brock & Mir are MUCH more proven and reliable as PPV draws.
Please
It’s ridiculous to think a Brock rematch with Mir would outsell a fight with Fedor. It’s so silly and beyond the realm of reality.
Story Time
I have a poster at my desk at work from Affliction: Banned. Fedor and Tim Sylvia are featured on it. People walk by and comment on Sylvia, and have no idea who Fedor is.
Nevermind the fact that even if Fedor was in the UFC, and had the entire UFC marketing machine behind him, he’d face a lot of the same problems Anderson Silva faces. He’s foreign, he’s doughy looking, he has no real charisma. He doesn’t have that crossover appeal that’s going to get your random Joes buying.
The main thing Fedor had going for him was that he was a heavyweight, undefeated and considered the best in the world. Now all he has going for him is that he’s a heavyweight.
Also, please, since we’re not in reality…
Why is that since Fedor = PROFIT, Bodog, and Affliction all couldn’t sell a PPV with him on it to save their lives? Why weren’t people flocking to HDNet to watch him fight Hong Man Choi? Why were his CBS ratings lower than Kimbo Slice or Gina Carano?
Once again
You refuse to acknowledge the fact that MMA doesn’t make money outside of the US. If the rest of the world is so lucrative, why is Fedor in Strikeforce? Why isn’t he fighting in M-1 Global Presents Sportfights in Eastern Europe or in the booming Japanese market for the huge paydays that are there?
You make vague comments about the US not being the only market…you’re right, it’s just the market where 95% of the money in MMA is.
Apparently in your world, Fedor is a license to print money, everyone worldwide is paying tons of cash to see him, and the only reason M-1 is co-promoting in the US is to share the wealth because Fedor is so profitable. I still fail to see how this explains Fedor/M-1 putting Bodog and Affliction out of business, seeing as he’s a license to print money and all.
First of all
Fedor did not put Bodog out of business. Secondly, just like Sylvia is recognized on your poster here, Fedor is recognized internationally. MMA was damaged in Japan when Pride collapsed. Not to mention that soon after Japan’s economy plummeted. But, at one point it was huge. It does not mean the market is gone. It needs to be rebuilt. Baseball was damaged after the strike and it needed to be rebuilt. Then, there is China and other emerging markets. It;s so funny how people forget that till just a few years ago Pride was the #1 organization and the UFC was sucking wind. These things are cyclical and are not absolute.
Again
Since Fedor and worldwide MMA are so profitable, why isn’t M-1 promoting shows in all of these other markets and raking in tons of cash? What do they need UFC, Strikeforce or anyone else for?
In your world the US market is nothing, so again, why are Fedor and M-1 seemingly so intent on fighting here? Why bother with Strikeforce or UFC?
Completely wrong again
the US market is not nothing in my world. It is one market. It’s a big one. It is a good base that if you plant a flag in it and grow then you could sell to the rest of the world. Like I said in one of my other posts, every sports organization in the US is investing heavily in the international markets, especially emerging markets. Everyone is flocking to China. Name recognition is a big way to build in new markets. Fedor has a name in the international market. Frank Mir doesn’t. Shane Carwin sure as hell doesn’t.
Fedor’s name recognition in China? Yea that is the deal breaker for international expansion.
We all understand international expansion, the difference is that none of us believe that Fedor is that kind of draw internationally to make him that much bigger of a deal than all the other international talent the UFC already has signed. The sport of MMA is barely known in the vast majority of the world and Fedor isn’t even well known in his home country of Russia.
Yet, in Emelianenko’s native Russia, a country that honors athletic heroes almost as highly as its greatest wartime generals, few will probably be watching.
“Emelianenko is a huge star, on par with Sharapova and Ovechkin,” said Pavel Lysenkov, a journalist with Sovietsky Sport, Russia’s premier sports newspaper, referring to the tennis star Maria Sharapova and the N.H.L. star Alexander Ovechkin. (Comparisons with Mike Tyson of the 1980s also abound.)
“But I’m very surprised that in Russia very few people know him.”
Lysenkov and others said that this was probably because television coverage of mixed martial arts is practically nonexistent in Russia and that the sport, which came to St. Petersburg in the mid-1990s, remains largely confined to Russia’s northern capital.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/1/22/731834/fedor-emelianenko-makes-th
It's not a matter of it being a dealbreaker
that is an exaggeration. It helps. MMA is not popular in Russia. Nor is professional wrestling. In Japan it is. In China it can be. So, to be successful in new, emerging markets it is best to have the top names. A Brock/Fedor fight provides this. If JDS or Cain beats Brock we will all be in awe of a JDS v Cain match. But, that’s only here in the US and probably Brazil. A Brock/Fedor match would still outsell that fight.
The UFC has all sorts of global fighters, heck they can’t run a PPV in Japan with Yoshihiro Akiyama so why would Fedor? Fedor is a great fighter ut he just isn’t the super mega-draw you seem to think he is and the expense and headache that would come from signing him is why the UFC doesn’t make that move. There are no guarantees that even Fedor vs Brock would do any better than Brock vs anyone else.
It's not a matter of mega draw
You’re not getting it. It’s a brand name. Fedor is a brand name that people know. Like Michael, or A-Rod or Tiger. His name is synonymous with his sport. Does one loss hurt that, sure. But does it wipe it away completely. Absolutely not. Casual UFC fans need a story to buy the fights. If Brock continues to win and Fedor avenges against Werdum there is no better story to tell than a fight between Fedor and Brock. None. Zero.
To who?
If you ask people to name 5 MMA fighters, none of them will be Fedor. Unless those people are Vadim and his family. You need to look outside of MMA message boards, Fedor is NOT an established brand, he is NOT a draw. Brock Lesnar has about 100x the name recognition that Fedor would ever have.
You do realize that hardly any people in the US saw PRIDE, right? And that watching Fedor beat up some guy who looked like a young Mr T on a lazy Saturday night did not convince them that he’s the best in the world?
As far as 99% of the MMA fanbase is concerned, if you’re not in the UFC, you’re minor league. The fact of the matter is, Fedor’s fanbase is all hardcore MMA fans. All of these MMA fans are already buying UFC PPVs. He’s not going to increase viewership because anyone who knows who he is already buys PPVs.
This is where you fall back on your “but…but….INTERNATIONAL!” which is a load of shit. Nevermind the fact that the only market Fedor is known in outside of the US (Japan) has more love for guys like CroCop, who is already on the UFC roster and not making retarded demands.
Look, I’d love to see Fedor stop fucking about and fight in the UFC. But the notion that UFC NEEDS him is laughable. It takes a willful ignorance of how the MMA business works to even begin to believe that, but it’s starting to look like willful ignorance is your forte.
Wrong again
First of all, you are out of your mind if you don’t think Fedor isn’t a brand. Like I said, there is a story to be told. Even to those who don’t know who Fedor is. At every press conference for years every HW was asked about Fedor. None of them said “who?”. Marketing a fight between Fedor and Brock tells a much bigger story than any fight UFC can offer in the HW division. Especially if Brock beats Cain and JDS. No other fight will be close. And anyone who thinks that telling the story of Mir/Brock III would sell more than Fedor/Brock is completely and utterly clueless.
fortunately, if he signs with the UFC, they are capable of building his name to the point where a PPV with him could do fairly well.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Come one…… his brand name isn’t a mega-draw either. You try to say I’m not getting it and then say something like that? It’s the same exact thing and it still doesn’t change the fact that Fedor just isn’t as well known as you seem to think he is. He’s not a mega-draw and he’s not a brand name he’s just a very (very) good fighter, like so many others out there.
To the WWE fanboys
…you’re right, Fedor is not as well known. To the rest of the MMA fan community you would be scoffed at if you didn’t know who Fedor was. If you have spent anytime paying attention to MMA the past decade you know who Fedor is. Please. Stop it. And to the WWE fanboys, they want to be told a story to get engaged. Nothing could tell a story better than a Fedor/Brock matchup.
The hardcore MMA fanbase isn’t worth peanuts in terms of MMA ratings, we are a very vocal group but we are also a very small group. Casual fans are guys who watch UFC events in bars or have UFC parties not guys who obsess over the sport on the internet. I know tons of guys who order UFC ppvs but I am the only one who actually follows the sport as a hardcore fan. They don’t have a clue who Fedor is, heck most of them think Pride is a gay event in San Francisco. One guy has bought every UFC PPV for the last 5 years, he was a fan before TUF but he doesn’t even know there was MMA outside of the UFC, he thought the shows on CBS were UFC shows too. That is the vast majority of MMA fans out there.
The “MMA Fan Community” does know who Fedor is. They are also already buying the PPVs. Since Fedor will bring along people who are already buying the PPVs, how exactly does he increase buyership?
Fedor’s fan base == MMA fans == The people already buying UFC events.
If you’re already buying UFC events, then you buy the next one because Fedor is on it…that’s not an increase. I honestly don’t think you grasp this, but I don’t know how to explain it any simpler.
Still Not Getting It
Brock beats JDS and Cain. Fedor beats Werdum. Even those who don’t know who Fedor is can be told the story of who he is and the threat he is to Brock. That’s how you sell the fight. This is like Promotion 101. No one is going to care to see Brock pummel Mir again. The casual fan is going to lose interest. They will spend their PPV money on Wrestlemania whatever. You give them a threat, like Fedor, and they will save that money and buy that fight. And, to the international community, you have a super fight. This not rocket science.
Yes the UFC could throw their full marketing weight behind Fedor and make something out of it but they can (and do) do that with a lot of fighters who don’t demand co-promotion with M-1 global. Fedor is just another fighter, and intenationally the whole entire sport is an unknown more/less Fedor. The international market for this (or any) fight currently is all but worthless.
Who?
Name ’em. Who. Who can the UFC put up against Brock after JDS and Cain that would be as dramatic a fight as Fedor. Who?
Hell if James Toney wins he may get a shot and he would probably draw better than Fedor too. They have till next summer to build for what comes after Cain and JDS anything can happen by then. Heck with a couple of big wins Roy Nelson would be back in the mix. 6 months ago who thought cain vs lesnar would be such a huge event?
Toney, Nelson, seriously?!?!
First, it would be an absolute shame if Toney beat Couture and then got a title shot. What HW are they building for next year? Who? Nelson and Toney are not credible answers.
Toney was a joke, although he would blow a Fedor ppv out of the water in terms of buyrates. And by next year Mir 3 or Carwin 2 could be on the books and those would both be huge if they win big fights between now and then. Heck Cain Velasquez only has 8 fights, it wasn’t very long ago he wasn’t considered a credible answer to the question and neither was Dos Santos, who knows what will be in 6 months.
Yeah...
Carwin after he appears before a Grand Jury for his steroid use and Mir if he can get some real wins. Not just CroCop. And still a fight against Fedor would blow their doors off. Sorry. Dana wasn’t planning on promoting Fedor/Brock at Cowboy Stadium because he didn’t think it could sell. Do you see Mir/Brock at Cowboy Stadium. Please.
If you have spent anytime paying attention toMMAthe MMA blogs the past decade you know who Fedor is.
There, fixed it.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure
…Dana was going to put Fedor in a title fight in his first fight in UFC because the MMA blogs and no one else knew who he was? Really?
Tell you what
Show me the numbers where Fedor sold well on PPV. He’s been on over half a dozen PPV cards in nearly as many organizations. Please show me one that’s done well.
Do you have any idea how much M1 has paid Fedor over the years?
People estimated his 2007 six fight M1 deal at $10M. They said that the most recent UFC deal – which Dana White described as the richest in history – was more or less the same as what Fedor got currently.
There’s a reason that M1 broadcasts Affliction and Strikeforce fights around the world. There’s a reason that CBS/Showtime can afford Fedor. He is an international draw, whether you want to accept it or not.
Bullshit
What “people” estimated that six fight deal to be worth $10M in payout to Fedor?
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
That was when he supposibly signed the Monte Cox/Sibling sports M-1 debacle that fell through. That has nothign to do with M-1 Global now except as a story of how screwed up working with them was for Monte Cox.
In short, I think so. Despite announcements that Fedor/Sylvia is a done deal, the American side of the former M-1 Global partnership, known now as Adrenaline MMA, maintains Fedor still needs to return the $1.5 million signing bonus he received from them before he can legally fight for another organization. The fact that Fedor’s ‘Banned’ opponent, Tim Sylvia, is under contract with Adrenaline MMA, which is led by Monte Cox, makes the whole situation even more bizarre. And the fact that this final piece of business in the M-1 Global split—Fedor’s bonus—still remains unsettled is rather odd. Why haven’t they given it back yet? Hopefully, the answer won’t be that Fedor’s camp doesn’t have it to give it back.
http://www.mmaconvert.com/2008/05/04/afflictionhdnet-deal-falls-through-banned-changing-venues/
I'm still pretty sure that Fedor/M1 are earning something similar
Affliction paid $1.2M to M1 per fight in addition to the disclosed salary for Fedor. Yarennoka was a huge event.
Look, all you guys can diss M1 all you want, but money talks. If the UFC really did offer him a rich contract, and M1 says that it was comparable to what they were already earning, and they did turn the offer down, what else can you conclude?
The UFC could have easily paid off M1 to release Fedor if he was earning as little as you guys think.
We know exactly what Fedor made from Affliction events because that number is part of the lawsuit filings between Affliction and M-1 Global:
Fedor is to be paid a $300,000 purse per fight
……..
In exchange for these consulting services, Affliction agreed to pay M-1 a consulting fee of $1,200,000 per fight.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/11/12/1143345/exclusive-details-of-fedor
Look, all you guys can diss M1 all you want, but money talks. If the UFC really did offer him a rich contract, and M1 says that it was comparable to what they were already earning, and they did turn the offer down, what else can you conclude?
Well that’s an easy conclusion, the UFC wanted to give the money to Fedor and not M-1 Global nor did they want to give into M-1 Global’s demands for co-promotion. M-1 Global is trying to grow their own company off Fedor (and Strkeforce and the UFC), they don’t care about what is best for Fedor they care about what is best for M-1 Global. Why would the UFC help build a company into a potential future competitior and why would they ever co-promote with M-1 or pay M-1 a consultant fee like that? That’s fine and all if Fedor is fine with it but it’s not something the UFC is ever going to do. The problem isn’t what they will pay Fedor it’s what they won’t pay M-1 Global.
For what it's worth
Fedor Emelianenko said on Wednesday that he does not intend to sign a contract with the Ultimate Fighting Championship unless the UFC agrees to promote fights jointly with Emelianenko’s promoter, M-1 Global. Since then, several Web sites have reported that Emelianenko had turned down a six-fight contract with the UFC worth $30 million.
FanHouse has learned from a source close to the negotiations, who wished to remain anonymous, that the UFC offered Emelianenko a three-fight contract with a guarantee of less than $2 million per fight.
The source did confirm that Emelianenko was offered an immediate title shot against current UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar.
As Jonathan Snowden, the author of ‘Total MMA: Inside Ultimate Fighting,’ who also spoke to someone with knowledge of the negotiations, pointed out, it is possible that Emelianenko could make up to or even more than $30 million during his UFC run, but that amount wasn’t guaranteed up front.
“The number is based on Zuffa’s projections of what Fedor’s take of the PPV money would be, and the numbers they are projecting are based on selling a ton of PPV’s. The actual guarantee for Fedor is much more modest. It’s true that if business stays at record levels Fedor could walk away with $30 million. But that is no guarantee.”
If the pay-per-views in which Emelianenko main events do as well as, say, UFC 100, which reportedly generated approximately 1.5 million PPV buys, he could conceivably make that much, if not more once the PPV escalators kick in.
http://www.mmafighting.com/2009/07/30/fedor-emelianenko-turns-down-three-fight-ufc-contract/
And this was when I became a big Fedor defender
This was obviously an astroturf plot to paint Fedor as some crazed coward who turned down $30 million to protect his record from the UFC’s gauntlet. And no one pushed back. Luke Thomas himself admits it was a mistake that he didn’t counter this claim stronger. But it proved highly successful and now this idea paints every story about him.
That’s the thing just because it wasn’t guaranteed doesn’t change what the potential of the offer was. They were guaranteeing near 2 million a fight plus a PPV bonus, that is a damn good offer for any fighter.
This has been explained.
UFC has had a tendency to make moves that don’t make sense from a pure business perspective because they’re still fight fans.
Why do you think CroCop is making 200k to sit on the 3rd or 4th fight on a card?
Two million a fight puts him at the same general area as the other top fighters in the UFC, M-1 wants money guaranteed instead of in PPV bonus because they don’t want his pay based on how well he draws. The UFC doesn’t build fighter brands they build the UFC brand because fighters come and go but their name brand will always be theirs.
Well they are in the UFC and getting pushed to high heaven so of course people know who they are. That doesn’t mean people knew who they were before they came to the UFC and even the general public barely knows who most of them are.
Did they have to win a few
or did they get that contract right out of the gate. And please be specific. Who?
The UFC has a brand
“Ultimate Fighting Championship”
Absolutely the most valuable brand in MMA, far and away. Without that brand, MMA doesn’t make money.
The Fedor brand, on the other hand, not a proven money maker.
Because Dana became obscessed with Fedor (he admitted that already). Fedor is one of the best fighters in the business but that doesn’t mean he is a draw. The UFC wants to have all the best fighters but that has nothing to do with best drawing fighters (the most watched fighter in the US is Kimbo Slice and the UFC cut him).
And if Kimbo
won he would still be on the UFC roster. Like I have said, it’s not about draw. It’s about the story you can tell. After Kimbo loses and you see how poor a fighter is the story is over. Fedor, even with the loss to Werdum, is a great fighter. Greatest of all time. That is a story that sells.
We knew how poor a fighter Kimbo was to start with. Yes they could market Fedor but they aren’t going to co-promote with M-1 Global to do it and without the UFC pushing the shit out of Fedor he’s not all that big of a draw. Even being the best fighter in the world doesn’t mean you will sell a ton of PPVs, just look at Anderson Silva’s record. Fedor may be a great fighter but he is dull as hell as a person and doesn’t speak english.
I'm not talking about co-promotion
I’m talking about the ridiculous idea that a Mir/Brock III fight would draw more than a Fedor/Brock fight. Once Brock is finished with Cain and JDS and IF he wins there is no one close.
No it isn't.
Anderson Silva, who has actually been beating credible threats in his division for the last few years, has trouble selling big cards.
He’s a great fighter, nobody will deny that. But he’s a foreign guy without much to like about him personality wise. Why isn’t his story selling?
Fedor has the benefit of being a heavyweight, but that’s it. He also is coming off a loss to a mid-level HW and his game looks to be stuck in 2005.
The UFC already has a guy in his mid 30s, who’s game hasn’t evolved but is good enough to hang around the top of his division, and is only really a draw for hardcore fans. It’s Matt Hughes. Do you think that Matt Hughes vs. GSP would be the OMG WORLDS BIGGEST SUPERFIGHT?
That barely deserves a response
You’ve said some ridiculous things here today. Comparing Fedor to Hughes is plain silly. Silva hasn’t had any credible threats recently till Sonnen. And Anderson is a jerk. Fedor is a well liked and respected individual. Apples and oranges.
Except that
There is no one people can point to and claim Anderson has been “ducking” in the big leagues or anywhere else, and certainly not within his own organization (you know, the minor league heavy weight champ Overeem)
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s not true. Many people claimed Silva was ducking Vitor by claiming injury. Before that some claimed Anderson was ducking Hendo and Marquardt by refusing to fight them after their victories at UFC 100 and 101 (for the record I think Anderson was gaming the system to get on a better ppv card but was ducking his opponents).
And Fedor has been ducking who? Was he ducking the big leagues when he fought in Pride and they had the best HW division in the world. or when he fought with Affliction and they had 4 of the top 6 HWa in the World while the two that were in the UFC, one was suing to leave to fight Fedor and the other Fedor has already beaten twice. He couldn’t have ducked Overeem to fight Rogers and Werdum because Strikeforce never offered him such a fight. Thei plan was to build up to a Fedor/Overeem money fight. Why don’t we wait and see if he actually ducks Overeem before we start going with that narrative.
Fair enough
I have long said that whether Fedor ultimately fights Overeem (the rightful champion within his own organization) or not will be the litmus test for those who claim he has ducked throughout the years.
And, FTR, I consider Anderson’s avoidance of facing GSP as well as not moving up to LHW a form of ducking.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
When Tim Sylvia lost to Nog
…he could have stayed with UFC. He decided he wanted to leave and fight Fedor. He went after the best in the world. He lost. But, he went to fight the best. While Fedor was in Pride he faced the best in the world. Before SF, he fought the best that weren’t under UFC contract. Most were ranked fighters. When he joined SF he faced two top 10 fighters and it was supposed to lead to a fight against Overeem. No ducking. Even Overeem said he is not ducking him above. Like I have said I will pit the top 4 HW fighters in SF against the top 4 in UFC any day of the week. The UFC is the top organization but they do not have all the top fighters. Sorry.
There is a huge difference between a six fight $30 million contract and a three fight non-guaranteed contract for less than $2 mil per fight with the possibility of making up to $5 or $6 million.
Now to us it sounds like a great deal, and maybe it should be looked at a great deal by Fedor but at the time he and M-1 were getting a guaranteed $1.5 mil per fight plus
Fedor Emelinaenko reserved all rights to distribute and exploit his bouts in Russia and Asia. He had the right to retain all revenue from the sale, license, or any other exploitation of his reserved rights to market the broadcast. The rights include streaming rights, and extend beyond Fedor’s fights to the undercard and preliminary fights.
A $2 million plus guarantee, while great, wouldn’t be so above and beyond what he was used to getting.
And that doesn’t even matter, because my point was this was obviously a coordinated attempt to turn public opinion against him. It was a smear campaign and the meme it created persists in fans to this day.
Oh I agree that it wasn’t as good as what was being presented, they gave an high view of what the PPV cut could be. Still it was a darn good number, it wasn’t insulting at all and even the downside was more than they were ever making from anyone else.
As a smear campaign, well that has been going both ways from both groups, people all over still think Fedor didn’t sign the first time because they wouldn’t let him fight Sambo but both Lorenzo and Dana have said that wasn’t a issue for them. Both sides of this are full of shit and are playing the smear game.
MINT!!!!
Give it up! You’re wrong!
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
Proud BElitest.
by MMArazorback on Aug 24, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
The UFC could market/hype the hell out of Lesnar/Fedor
All of a sudden the UFC could give Fedor the credit he deserves and make it a can’t miss fight/event
"A man that does not fall, does not stand up."
Chael Sonnen: The true p4p KING!
Of course it would sell, UFC could sell Brock vs. anyone. But it would not get a significant bump over, say, the Shane Carwin fight.
Hardcores watch almost every card. There’s not very many hardcore MMA fans who are sitting out of UFC fights because Fedor isn’t on them. And the ones who are are the same jackasses who torrent/stream every PPV anyways, so they’ve never translated to PPV buys.
Where are these mysterious buyers going to come from when Fedor-Brock happens? All the Fedor fans were watching the fight anyhow, because why wouldn’t they be getting a UFC fight with Brock on it? The casuals have no fucking idea who this doughy Russian is, and showing him doing a training montage on the countdown isn’t magically going to add half a million PPV buys.
UFC owns all his Pride footage
They will make people care about Fedor. There are a lot of blind sheep out there.
"A man that does not fall, does not stand up."
Chael Sonnen: The true p4p KING!
CroCop was a walking highlight reel in PRIDE
and they haven’t managed to even make him into a headliner
You're just not getting it
and that’s ok. Dana White felt he could fill Cowboy Stadium for a Fedor/Brock match. Cowboy Stadium. You think he would even dream of that with a Brock/Mir III. Of course not. You are not seeing the big picture.
Why would fedor do more than people already in the UFC?
Why do people think Fedor will somehow put things over the top?
Last year Dana would have bent a little to get it done so he could get the consensus #1 hw into the octagon, the draw that you are thinking of does not exist.
Dana White
in April said he was absolutely obsessed with Fedor and getting him signed. Do you think that maybe he might have a better beat on the market?
and the fact that he is the only promoter that hasn’t lost a shit load of money in the fedor business proves that he has a very good beat on the market, and the fact that even with all his obsessions he hasn’t done what you are suggesting he would do shows he has a better grasp than you.
What am I suggesting he do?
What exactly am I suggesting Dana do? When Fedor’s SF contract is up M-1 said they would sign with the UFC if they co-branded, let Fedor retain his image, and gave guaranteed money. That is different from the last negotiation. And if you think that Dana wouldn’t want to sign Fedor, especially coming off a Werdum win then you are not being realistic.
not with that stuff now. Fedor lost a lot of juice. Fedor probably not worth the same exact contract brock has right now, and even if he’s worth it, I doubt he would get that because SF will probably be offering less this time than they did last time.
Dana didn’t think Fedor was worth changing the standard contract before, he certainly isn’t going to think he’s worth it now.
It could've been that
but it also could have been the fact that Dana wants the UFC as the NFL of mma and when the #1 fighter of an weight class doesnt fight for you it makes that goal unaccomplishable.
Dana has also said since Fedor lost he has 0 interest in Fedor if we are going off “what Dana says”.
You're misunderstanding that.
The thing a lot of people fail to realize is that Dana White and the Fertittas are fans at their core. They’ve done a lot of things that didn’t make sense from a pure business perspective but were interesting from a fan perspective. If you look at how much the former PRIDE guys are all getting paid, they aren’t bringing in a corresponding amount of eyeballs. But they’re fans and they wanted to see these guys fight the UFC guys. Hell, buying PRIDE as a whole was just because they wanted to try to get all the guys in one place. But even though they’ve turned it into some merch sales and highlight shows, they took it in the shorts buying PRIDE.
They wanted Fedor because he was considered the best, and they honestly wanted to see the Fedor-Brock fight. Fedor’s value has declined significantly after he’s lost his “unbeaten” mystique, but it looks like M-1 still thinks that they can hardball their way into getting whatever they want. Let’s see how that pans out for them.
Dana White felt he could fill Cowboy Stadium for a Fedor/Brock match. Cowboy Stadium.
Bullshit.
The interviews where Dana mentioned going to Cowboy stadium took place in April of 2010, long after Strikeforce had signed Fedor and a couple of months before Fedor-Werdum. Brock-Fedor was never mentioned in any of those interviews.
http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=11109&zoneid=3
You are just making shit up.
was.
This seems to be a hard concept for you to grasp, so i’ll try to be as clear as possible.
Fedor losing changed things, significantly. You cannot take anything that anyone said about anything when Fedor was undefeated, and apply it to today.
Fedor can rematch werdum and rip his head off of his body in the first 10 seconds of the match and he will not be in the same negotiating position he was in before he tapped.
Same negotiating position, no
but do you really think that Fedor/Brock would not be huge? Really? Where does the UFC go with Brock if he beats Cain and JDS? And both of those fights will happen in the next 12 months?
Both the Carwin and the Mir rematch would do good business and have a lot of interest from the fans, especially Carwin after the first fight. Beyond a year from now, who knows? A guy could easily go on a tear and make a name for himself in that time. It all depends on who’s winning.
it would be as big as the baldfather wanted to make it. therefore, it makes no sense for the baldfather to give fedor anything extra because the UFC and Brock are what will make it huge, not fedor.
Yep
If the UFC really needed a Russian guy who lost to Werdum that badly, they’d re-sign Arlovski.
Funny, but slightly inaccurate.
Arlovski won that incredibly boring fight with Werdum.
"Before I do anything I ask myself, "Would an idiot do that?" And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." - Dwight Schrute
Yeah I realized after I hit post
I fell asleep so I missed the ending
The most exciting part was the pre-fight staredown.
"Before I do anything I ask myself, "Would an idiot do that?" And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." - Dwight Schrute
C'mon
…you think because of one loss in a decade that all of the shine of a Brock/Fedor match is gone? Please. Be realistic. The UFC’s HW division is going to need a serious injection soon. Dana’s talking about bringing back Tim Sylvia. Like I said, Fedor beats Werdum and Brock beats Cain and JDS and the biggest fight that Dana could put on will be Brock/Fedor. Nothing else would come close.
Not all of the shine...
But enough of it to significantly reduce Fedor’s value to the UFC..
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Only way Fedor gets back a lot of his leverage (but not all of it) is if he goes on a terror and takes out Werdum, Barnett, and Overeem on CBS, while the UFC HW start knocking each other off. If that happens he’ll reclaim the #1 spot and with the some good exposure there might be more widespread interest in him fighting for the UFC championship.
That was Gonzaga's fault! ;)
"A man that does not fall, does not stand up."
Chael Sonnen: The true p4p KING!
You're are seeing things thru the eyes of just one coutntry
… the market for MMA does go beyond the US and the UFC has had challenges reaching that market. All the old Pride guys that you spoke about are nowhere near Fedor in world wide popularity. It is crazy to think that Carwin, who the rest of the world doesn’t know a thing about, would be a better draw then Fedor. A Fedor/Brock match would have a World Cup feel to it. Like I said, you are not dealing with the reality of the situation. It has much wider, global implications.
here’s the problem with this line of thought. For 3 years M1 has been working with people who have given them the rights/abilities/duties/whatever to market to, promote, and get revenue from this worldwide audience, and M1 is still unable to put together a fight for Fedor on their own.
people act like there is some untapped international mma market that is fawning over fedor, but that is no longer the case. There is a reason Fedor has been attaching himself to US based orgs and the money they provide since the death of pride.
no they aren’t, they are saying, “But I’ll say it again, we are ready to organize co-promotion with any organization that is ready to meet our demands.”
If there was as much money as you like to make it out to be coming from the rest of the world. M1 should be able to sign barnett or another opponent to do a show on their own.
I think there easily could have been
But either because the overestimated his current fame or were fantasizing about the fortune they were going to make off payperview they blew it.
Imagine if Affliction cut a deal to air the Tim Sylvia and Arlovki fights in a cage on CBS with Elite XC. Promos appear on the Elite XC Primetime show advertising Fedor coming to America and Fedor vs Sylvia. After two impressive victories over known UFC champs on TV do you doubt he wouldn’t be a star. After the victory over Rogers they could have held the Overeem fight on ppv and probably got a lot of buys if it wasn’t massively counterprogrammed by the UFC.
I don’t doubt that Fedor would be a star if he was marketed properly. But that didn’t happen, so he isn’t a star like that now.
He was well on his way after the Rogers fight. But then he went ahead and skipped the CBS show and had the audacity to lose. Redo those last two and Dana is going crazier than ever.
If we’re going to redo things, if he signs with zuffa after the death of pride, then beats Randy, Tim, and AA in the UFC, he’s gigantic, but we can’t redo things, we can only deal with the gameboard as the crazy russians have left it.
But if he signed with Zuffa back then he would have been locked in with the Champions clause, so he would be fighting with Brock’s contract at best.
If they would have been able to build him up outside of the UFC they could have either been able to sell ppvs at a 50% split or demand $10 a buy from the UFC. Either way we’re now talking about an mma fighter making boxing money.
If he had gone into the UFC and stayed then he would probably be on his second or third contract with them by now and this would be a very different discussion. He will never got a 50% demand or a $10 a buy on PPV deal regardless of what had happened inside or outside the UFC. He was never going to be a big enough star to get the UFC to throw away their entire business model to get a fight out of.
I didn’t say the UFC would have given up 50%, that would have been his cut of any other promotions ppv. So the option would have been:
1) Fight on a non-UFC ppv which after properly building him up on network TV, does 200 – 300,00 buys and a $2 mil gate and walk away with $5 + million domestically plus whatever they get overseas and from auxiliary sources or
2) sign with the UFC if they only agree to pay him $10 a ppv,
Either way, he’s making more than any other fighter in the world.
On this, I actually agree with you
It would not be anything remotely close to that. Fedor, even before the Werdum loss, would not have justified anything close to that – he is just not enough of a draw.
I suspect the UFC was willing to pay him beyond his value to them when he was unbeaten because, at their hearts, they are fans…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
M1 may be useful here
to carry this card outside the US. Did I just say that?
"A man that does not fall, does not stand up."
Chael Sonnen: The true p4p KING!
Where?
Where is Fedor huge? Eastern Europe?
If he’s such an automatic money maker worldwide:
1) Why does M-1 want to promote him in the US
2) Why does M-1 insist on other promoters taking on the financial burden of this sure thing
3) Why have all of the prior promoters that brought this golden goose aboard gone bankrupt?
1) Who said they only want the US market? They’ll go anywhere there’s money. They got lots of money from Japan in the past and plan to do so again this New Years. They’d like to do an event in Russia.
2) Why wouldn’t they if they can get away with it?
3) Are you seriously blaming the collapse PRIDE on Fedor? Or is there another promotion abroad that you’re thinking of? Did you know that Yarrenoka spurred the creation of DREAM? That’s quite the opposite of bankruptcy.
What other countries does the UFC sell PPVs in? If they are giving it away for free in other countries like they do other big events then those other countries are irrelevant to them making big money off of it. The UFC makes their biggest money in two ways PPV sales and live gates, putting events on foriegn tv cost them money and is only done to try and grow the market. Fedor isn’t even that well known in his home country and the sport of MMA isn’t that big anywhere besides the US and Japan.
The same Japan that has 2 failing MMA orgs that currently can’t afford to pay their fighters, and have fallen drastically in ratings and revenues? This is the market UFC should be coveting? That’s the reason they should agree to whatever demands M-1 has?
Nevermind the fact that Fedor’s popularity there has always been debatable, they’ve got plenty of guys (CroCop, Akiyama) that still have much bigger brands in Japan. If UFC really wanted Japan that badly, they’d go after Overeem, not Fedor.
Fedor's popularity there has been debatable?
What? We have reached the Twilight Zone in this discussion. Don’t you think they have gone after Overeem. There is this thing called K-1 and if Overeem signs with UFC he can’t fight in it.
I understand that this is why Overeem is not in the UFC currently. Let me itemize my points for you:
1) Fedor is absolutely not the key to the Japanese Market
2) The Japanese MMA market is dying
3) Japanese MMA has always succeeded based on being on network TV there, not on a PPV model
If your logic is that the UFC needs to sign Fedor to bolster up that lucrative Japanese PPV market, you’re woefully misguided in pretty much every part of it.
Still not getting it
The Japanese market is not dying. It hasn’t had a solid product to sell. The Japanese market is still there and what’s more important, it is a gateway to what is becoming a monster market, that is China. Seriously, why would Dana want Fedor so badly. Stop and think about it. The MMA world is bigger than the just the US.
1) Please explain how Japan is a gateway to China.
2) http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/4/20/1432361/is-japanese-mma-done-and-can-dana
Frankly, the reason that fighters who have headlined successful Japanese events for years like Gomi, Aoki and Yamamoto are fighting in the U.S. is because the MMA business in Japan has all but collapsed.
Fernandes joins a growing list of fighters who have had issues with being paid by DREAM. TATAME confirms that Ronaldo "Jacare" Souza still hasn’t been paid for his May 2009 DREAM 9 fight with Jason “Mayhem” Miller and Gary Goodridge revealed to MMAFighting earlier this month that he hasn’t receved a dime for his New Years Eve 2010 DREAM co-promoted Dynamite!! 2009 bout with Gegard Mousasi.
The organizations are struggling
and there is this thing called a global recession you may not have heard of. Doesn’t mean that the fans are gone. And if you don’t understand how Japanese pop culture influences China then you simply just don’t understand.
So the fans aren't gone...
They just don’t have any money to spend? How does this translate into profit for anyone trying to sell MMA there?
Despite this thing called a global recession the UFC has managed to grow their business consistently year after year. So in your world, they should abandon thier success, co-promote with M-1 and sign Fedor, who is the key to the Japanese market, so Fedor can draw in all of the Japanese fans who still love MMA but aren’t spending their money on it, but will once Fedor is in the UFC?
I also enjoy that you completely ignored my post above wondering why nobody is making use of the Fedor money printing machine and just putting on shows in all of these other lucrative markets.
the number one question here…
If Fedor and the non-US markets are worth so much money, why would Fedor or M-1 even have any interest in working with the UFC? Just let M-1 promote the show elsewhere and rake in that worldwide MMA cash. Problem solved.
I answered your post above
and the same goes here. When did I ever say the UFC should co-promote with M-1. I didn’t. What I said was Brock/Fedor is a huge international card and that your point of Mir/Brock would draw more is ludicrous. There is an international market for sports. Every sports organization is out there is developing the international market. Yes, the US is the base but there is a saturation point. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Why is it so hard for you to understand that “huge international draw” means “lukewarm at best profits”
Yeah..
that’s why the Red Sox spent a fortune to bring Dice-K over and the Galaxy spent hundreds of millions to bring Beckham to their team.
Moves that, with the benefit of hindsight,
were foolish at best…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok...
ask the Seattle Mariners how Ichiro has helped them in Japan. Or all the signage at Yankee Stadium that Japanese media bought upwhen Matsui played there.
That's true, and there were benefits to the others you mentioned as well,
But the bigger difference is the magnitude of money paid, especially when Dice K is not a dominant player…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
And someone is going to spend
more than they did on Dice-K on Yu Darvish. Is Darvish a better prospect than Chapman. Sure. Is he $100mm better. Definitely not. But, Cuba isn’t that big of a market.
You are probably right about that, although I am not the most knowledgable guy on baseball (or even close to it)
Although I don’t count myself among those who think international growth doesn’t matter – it clearly does.
Even so, it has to be approached intelligently. I like some of the moves the UFC has made in the UK and Australia for starters, and I think there is much future profitable growth in non-Japan Asia.
Although MMA is somewhat surprisingly not very popular at all in Brazil, it is such a populous country, with ever increasing (although disparate) wealth, if done right using some of the well known guys there (esp. Vitor) and having them fight non-Brazilians…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
They said They Would Drop The Co-Promotion to sign a UFC contract. They are looking for co-branding
The UFC already offered them that in the last go-around. They offered them space on the cage/mat and complete freedom to cover every inch of Fedor with M-1 logos and M-1 wanted none of it. Basically, what M-1 is asking is can we have the last deal you offered us back, and I am sure Zuffa’s answer is that deal is gone. You had your chance to take that deal and you spat in our faces, and now that you have lost some leverage you want to pretend that never happened. Tough shit.
Fedor is the greatest fighter of this generation of MMA.
I had more to say after this but it just makes me angry.
Would we all feel better abour Fedor fighting in Japan if he fought Minowaman?
"Jesus, did somebody dip a baby in jalepenos?" - My Girlfriend
Oh come on that would be such a one-sided matchup it wouldn't be fair.
Fedor wouldn’t stand a chance.
by Polyhedron on Aug 24, 2010 3:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agh
AGH.
AAAUUUGHH.
"You hear people say, 'You're the greatest,' and all this stuff. It's BS. It's fake, it's all fake. You've just got to keep training as hard as you can. The only thing real is the fight, everything else is fake." - BJ Penn
It's imperitive that SF not give in and let Fedor fight Werdum next.
The russians are trying to vindicate themselves and essentially invalidate Werdums victory over Fedor. It seems that Fedor and his team want this win back and also for the SF contract to run out so that they can gain more leverage in a new contract negotiation. SF needs to book a fight with Fedor and ANYONE else to expire Fedors contract and be in a position of strength to offer a new contract and be the only ones who can deliver him a shot at redemption against Werdum. Fedors team are sneaky as hell. Coker needs to grow a set, pronto! Oh, and in response to the post, there nothing quite like going to Japan for a quick tomato can payday.
Somewhat agree
I think they should tell them Overeem or no one and let them walk…
or just give him some can and bite the bullet with their head finally held high…
the problem is, if SF doesn’t give him Werdum, they’ll fight in DREAM instead…
I have long maintained that Fedor would duck Overeem in favor of Bigfoot to finish out his SF contract, “retire” from the US market, then fight either Werdum or Barnett next in DREAM…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 3:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Ducking the Reem is going to backfire.
I’m telling you, Silva is dangerous for Fedor. He shocked everyone by showing us that his boxing is technically better than Arlovski’s. We saw how much trouble Arlovski’s boxing was for Fedor, and Silva’s got an iron chin, can avoid punches, and has much longer reach. There’s a very, very good chance that Silva wins a decision over Fedor.
We really don’t know how much better Overeem has become, but we know that he can be KO’d and submitted, and who knows what his gas tank is like with all that muscle now.
Honestly though....
M-1 knows exactly what their end game is and I think this is a chest pumping of them saying “Look, we only want to fight Werdum and because we’re non-exclusive, we’re willing to fight elsewhere.” They’re essentially forcing Strikeforce’s hand to give them what they want.
Considering the fact that a couple weeks ago M-1 reported the talks “we’re almost complete except for a few details” Coker probably did grow a pair, which would be a shock.
Mind you, with Strikeforce’s track record for going through champs like crazy, I could see Overeem losing to Werdum bringing us back full circle to Fedor vs Werdum. :P
Play Hard, Train Harder
Alright......
if you want to be the best in thee world Fedor needs to goto the UFC. Wonder why he’s sooooo against going to the UFC? Weird.
The root problem with Fedor never going to the UFC is money
Fedor himself would make far, far more money in the UFC – several times as much. Not to the degree he would have had he signed there instead of with Strikeforce (and therefore prior to his loss), but still several multiples of what Strikeforce pays him.
The rub is, in Strikeforce, M-1 via parasitic co-promotion makes far more than Fedor does, and far more than they would had he signed with the UFC.
If you go back and look at the rumored numbers offered previously you can see the Fedor himself would have made at least 4-5 times as much with the UFC, but M-1 (without the co-promotion – the one thing the UFC would never, and should never do) would make far less as his management company than they would as co-promoters with Strikeforce.
Bottom line – the total value of the proposed UFC package was far higher, but the amount M-1 would have received would be far less under the proposed UFC deal, both as a percentage of the deal and especially as a total dollar amount, and that is why IMO the deal was DOA…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't forget what M1 does for Fedor
First of all, Fedor is part owner of M1, so what’s good for M1 is good for Fedor.
Secondly, Fedor has earned far, far more with M1 than he would have if he signed with the UFC in 2007 when he really was a free agent. The deal with Strikeforce is still a continuation of that six fight contract. M1 has every right to get what they can out of the contract because they took a risk on Fedor back when the UFC insultingly lowballed him.
Finally, Fedor (or was it M1?) has said that the recent UFC offer still didn’t pay him as much as his recent fights, probably due to tax reasons. I recall Afflictiion paying Fedor a small amount on paper but a large “consulting fee” to M1, and in Russia income tax is low and I assume that’s where they really pay Fedor. It’s how the KHL clubs can afford to lure stars away from the NHL.
Right....
So now M-1 “took a risk” by signing the #1 hw in the world? A guy that I’m being told would help sell out Cowboys stadium(100k+)? A guy who I am being told brings the rest of the world markets(outside of the USA) to any company he fights for? A guy who I am being told would help shatter the PPV record?
If all these things are true how is there any risk involved in that at all?
This is a fail of a post
First you sarcastically list Fedor’s financial upsides to show he’s worthless, and then you ask where the risk is?
Or was your objective to prove that M1 really was smart by snatching Fedor in 2007?
They didn’t snatch him in 2007 they took Monte Cox and Sybling entertainment for a multimillion dollar ride with Fedor as the bait in 2007. Fedor is a part owner in the current M-1 Global, that is their involvement together not that failed Sybling entertainment M-1 Global contract from 2007 that was never signed or inacted.
I really don't care about Fedor anymore.
And it’s all M-1’s fault.
Sadly,
I don’t really either…what used to just really piss me off now just makes me sad for the most part…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
M-1 drives me as nuts as the next guy but this is actually smart on their part. They have one fight left on their contract with Strikeforce and it looks as if they have an automatic rematch clause to fight Werdum again. So if Fedor beats Barnett and Werdum, not only does he get a big NYE payday in Japan and avenge the only real loss in a decade, he’s also a free agent who can:
1) ask for a lot from SF to fight Overeem in what would be a huge fight for the promotion.
2) sign with the UFC. Maybe co-promotion is out the window but they might get a lot of other concessions now that Fedor’s got some of his luster back.
3) fight in Russia or retire now that he’s preserved his legacy.
Man, I feel for Coker. All he wanted was a Fedor/Overeem superfight when he signed him a year ago. Instead he has to fall back on Batista/Lashley.
by John Nash on Aug 24, 2010 3:26 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
True,
this decision is great for M-1 (if it pushes through), naturally… as a fan though, I hate it.
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 24, 2010 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions
it’s only great if this lucrative offer from japan is real.
For all M1 likes to talk about their love of co-promotion and japan, Fedor has only fought one real fight in japan since the death of pride, and that was in 2007.
I am not going to buy this lucrative offer from japan until a fight is finalized, and since it’s a fight on the new year’s eve card, we’ll be waiting until christmas probably.
and of course this would be smart for them... as if M-1 Global's decisions were beneficial to anyone but themselves...
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 24, 2010 3:47 AM EDT up reply actions
This is a move that’s prettY hard for me to get mad at. If they’re that confident of a Fedor victory in a rematch with Werdum, they’d be negligent as his management not make sure he had the best leverage before negotiations.
This is like the UFC not co-promoting or freezing out a fighter to get him to resign: as a fan it sucks but it’s hard to argue against the logic of it.
by John Nash on Aug 24, 2010 3:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
My issue is this
Fedor and his management went into a fight with Werdum, knowing that SF was promoting it as a number 1 contenders fight, with the winner fighting Overeem. Werdum won and now all parties involved, Fedor, M-1, Werdum, Strikeforce, Overeem, should move on with the narrative that was sold to the fans.
Unfortunately that’s not going to happen and in fairness it isn’t just Fedor and M-1 who are responsible for this farce. Werdum is complicit in that he’s said he’d rather fight Fedor than M-1. Strikeforce is complicit in that they can’t seem to get contracted fighters to take the fights they’d like to make. The only guy who comes off clean in this is Overeem and quite frankly I wouldn’t blame him if he took his ball, went to Japan and kickboxed.
"If the commission would sanction it and Dana would move, I’d fighter Anderson right now."
- Chael Sonnen at the post fight press conference following his loss to Anderson Silva.
Support independent artists
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Judging by the evidence thus far
It appears that M-1 must have some sort of clause in their co-promotion agreement that gives them more say in who Fedor fights than the average SF fighter (which is saying something)
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure i am buying this automatic rematch clause. if that was the case, wouldn’t m1 say “we must fight werdum, it’s in our contract,” instead of, “we want to fight werdum, and so does everyone else in our very scientific poll?”
SF also isn’t acting like the contract calls for a rematch. M1 has proven they will go to court to enforce their contracts, so why would SF waste time and energy floating and negotiating fights that can’t happen? Because if the rematch clause exists, there is 0 reason for Fedor to fight anyone but werdum in Strikeforce.
According to Josh Barnett there is a clause:
http://www.fighthubtv.com/2010/07/josh-barnett-reacts-to-fedor-loss/
according to josh barnett he’s never done steroids.
no one else is acting like there is a rematch clause. if there was a rematch clause, even the harshest M1 critic would be hard pressed to give them grief if they came out and said, “our contract with SF said that Fedor gets to fight a rematch with a fighter that’s beats him, so we will wait for Werdum.” It’s a much simpler to come out and say that then for everyone involved to act the way they’ve been acting publicly.
If it was in the contract there is no discussion, no grief, no nothing, SF has to give him werdum, and M1 wants werdum. There is no room for discussion, and it could have been announced to put a lid on all this drama. Now, I’m not saying it’s impossible for the clause to be there, because PR is not a specialty for anyone involved in this mess, but I don’t see how things would have played out this way if there was a rematch clause in the contract.
It is my understanding that it is not an instant rematch clause. Instead there is a timeframe where m1 has to get a rematch by. During that span either Fedor or Werdum can fight other opponents but a rematch has to be offered by a certain date. Lets say the timeframe is 1 year, does it serve m1 (or Strikeforce) to announce we are going to sit out until the Werdum fight, or to push for that fight now because of the “public demand”.
but if it’s in writing that the rematch is there, everyone looks better by coming out and saying it. And the timeframe doesn’t really matter, Fedor only has 1 fight left on his Strikeforce contract, so it has to be the next fight.
If Fedor has 1 fight left on his contract, and his contract says SF has to give him werdum, that has to be the next fight. If that’s true, everyone would benefit by saying, right now, “we are contractually obligated to do Fedor v werdum, we will do it as soon as werdum heals.” There’s no reason to do anything else.
Because it behooves SF to schedule the Werdum/Overeem fight first, so that if Overeem wins, he will gain from being the next man to beat Werdum. And if Werdum wins he’ll be the champion so m1 might be forced into a championship bout if they want a rematch. I’m guessing SF only wants to offer Werdum to Fedor immediately only if Fedor agrees to an extension so they can get that Fedor/Overeem match.
i understand why they would want to do that, but if there is a rematch clause, i don’t see how it’s possible.
I have said from the beginning that SF should not even think about offering a Werdum fight, but if there is a rematch clause, things are different. Without that clause, SF can dangle werdum to get the fedor extension, with the clause, there is no motivation for m1 to sign that extension, because they have to be given werdum anyway, and all of this posturing and negotiating will only result in alienating fans.
You probably already know this,
But there will never be a Fedor – Overeem fight…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not in Werdum's contract
…and I think there is the rub. Werdum after the fight said he would rematch Fedor in Mother Russia. A few weeks later his management walked that back and said there is no upside to rematching Fedor unless M-1 (I thought that was interesting) puts up a ton of money for the fight. They went on to say a rematch clause is not in their contract. That makes me think there is a rematch clause in Fedor’s contract but for some reason this loophole exists.
Why would Werdum’s contract have a rematch clause to start with? I can see M-1 sticking one in there in case Fedor lost one of his Strikeforce fights but even that is a bit odd.
I don’t think his contract would have such a clause, but it should have been added to the bout agreement he signed.
In Fedor’s or Werdum’s? Not sure why Werdum would want a rematch clause in there? For Fedor yea I could see it but then Fedor’s management was pretty notorious for thinking he would never lose.
I would think it would have been added to Werdum’s. And why would he sign it? So that he could get the big money fight against Fedor. You would imagine their would be a pay bonus on a rematch as well.
Ok so you are saying that M-1 would of demanded Werdum agree to one, I can see that but I would of imagined that Werdum’s people would be chomping at the bit to work that angle now if there was one.
There is NO Automatic Rematch Clause!!!
You may think there is because that is all Vadim talks about (fighting Werdum) but that is because he is angling and politicking to get the fight made.
I’m going to quote Phildo who posted below me (I have no idea where this will end up). He breaks it down logically very well.
I’m not sure i am buying this automatic rematch clause. if that was the case, wouldn’t m1 say "we must fight werdum, it’s in our contract," instead of, "we want to fight werdum, and so does everyone else in our very scientific poll?"
SF also isn’t acting like the contract calls for a rematch. M1 has proven they will go to court to enforce their contracts, so why would SF waste time and energy floating and negotiating fights that can’t happen? Because if the rematch clause exists, there is 0 reason for Fedor to fight anyone but werdum in Strikeforce.
My theory is he's .......
going to fight in Japan and fight a small Japanese guy for a easy win or go fight in Russia where the Russian mafia can set up the fight for a definite win til Fabricio gets better so he can whoop his ass. Fedor is a sore loser and wants to avenge his loss.
I thought he was and has remained very graceful in defeat.
"Jesus, did somebody dip a baby in jalepenos?" - My Girlfriend
by Earl Montclair on Aug 24, 2010 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes he was.......
but behind closed doors Fedor was fuming over his loss. You know Fedor will do whatever it takes for that rematch with Fabrico.
good to know that ThaBEAST was on Fedor's room when he was pissed off
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 24, 2010 3:40 AM EDT up reply actions
LoL
relax pal. It’s all in fun. I’m not that delusional. But I know Fedor probably excepts the loss but M-1 is another story. M-1 wants the rematch more with fabricio then Fedor wants it. Is that a better observation for ya Anton Canton?
Please save us the time and say something particularly offensive so you can get banned and we can move on.
by John Nash on Aug 24, 2010 4:02 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It will be Barnett
…that fight makes the most sense. It isn’t going to be a small Japanese guy. So silly to call a guy who essentially lost once in his whole career a sore loser.
The real question is
Who in Japan can afford to pay the metric assload of money that both Fedor and Barnett would ask for?
everytime ol finkelstein talks....
i get this crazy ass feeling of de-ja-voo!
from now on when ever fink talks to some1 just copy and paste an old interview from 2008 plz…just had to add werdum in there and its the same ol crap
freedomwatchonfox.com lp.org
People still care? honestly?
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Its kind of funny, but more just sad...
It wasn’t very long ago at all that a piece like this would have drawn 500++ comments…
Now, everyone is just so worn out with Fedor that we just don’t care anymore…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
But I’ll say it again, we are ready to organize co-promotion with any organization that is ready to meet our demands
I guess that says it all right there.
that’s exactly why we are planning the last fight on Fedor’s contract to be against Werdum.
And that sounds like they are planning on Fedor’s last fight in Strikeforce to be against Werdum.
Sort of hard to read through all the translation but the whole thing sounds like to me that they are planning on trying to fight Barnett in Japan and Werdum and then make another run at UFC negotiations. Maybe they figure if he wins those two fights the UFC will give in to their “demands”. More of the same from M-1 Global.
Respect Level for Fedor: 0
I used to be a huge fan of his but this is Mickey Mouse bullshit to protect his legacy. He is the opposite of Chael Sonnen. Chael wants to fight the champions, Fedor wants to fight the journeymen. What a disgrace he and M1 are.
"You stick a microphone in a guy's face and he calls out anybody but the champion, and Joe Silva should fax him a pink slip right then." -- Chael Sonnen.
M1 is such a cancer
I hate that they hold such a great fighter back from his true (or untrue) potential.
visit my blog http://bear-trap.blogspot.com
Calling out
Randy, and people think he wants to fight the best? And BS on blaming the management, Fedor is M1 Global. Can’t have it both ways. Hope he retires tomorrow.
Who thinks he wants to fight the best? He’s made it clear he doesn’t care about being the best, and that’s not a knock on him. His priorities are just different from most fighters. He’s perfectly happy just competing against whoever, and being able to support his family that way.
"You hear people say, 'You're the greatest,' and all this stuff. It's BS. It's fake, it's all fake. You've just got to keep training as hard as you can. The only thing real is the fight, everything else is fake." - BJ Penn
They offered us a one-sided contract, under which all rights for Fedor will belong to the UFC. Of course, this turn of events did not suit us, so we tried to compromise by offering to organize a joint show.
So there compromise was to offer the exact same thing that they had initially offered?
I think...
they mean “in lieu of a joint contract” like strikeforce has with them.
visit my blog http://bear-trap.blogspot.com
Can strikeforce let their contract with Fedor expire without a 3rd fight?
As sort of like an “f-you” move?
Promote the snot out of Werdum as the Fedor killer and let m-1 try and get paid elsewhere without the bargaining power of avenging that loss.
M-1 Global sued Affliction for not honoring the 3rd fight
Also, Ken Shamrock (unsuccessfully) sued the UFC when he didn’t get the 2nd fight on a two-fight contract he signed when he fought Tito for the third time. They will have to give him a fight, but they don’t have to give M-1 the option of choosing the opponent.
Just give him even more of a can than M-1 wants
And put it as an opening fight, on an undercard, or on challengers…
Just as a “fuck you and good bye” act that lets them regain a little of their dignity…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
M-1 is now
Doing more to prevent great fights than Mayweather.
by Armleglegarm Head on Aug 24, 2010 10:28 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think that Poll was posted on the M-1 Global Intranet
GSP is an alien sent here to humiliate our men and mate with our women
by MMA_Messiah on Aug 24, 2010 10:58 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
There is a poll on the M-1 Global website...
asking “For a December 4th fight, who would you like to see as Fedor’s next opponent?”. The responses are posted on the website. As of today, the results are:
Alistair Overeem: 41%
Fabricio Werdum: 14%
Antonio Silva: 42%
Sergei Kharitonov 2%
Other SF Heavyweight 1%
I would like to know what poll they are referring to that states that fans want to see Fedor fight Werdum.
For anyone who wants a link, here you go: http://www.m-1global.com/
thats nuts!
I dont see any way that 42% of any group of fans want to see the Bigfoot fight over the AO fight.
Smells fishy M1…
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
Proud BElitest.
by MMArazorback on Aug 24, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Just remember this post
Next time anyone complains about UFC’s contracts. Yay Strikeforce! Free love! Sign lax contracts and watch your fighters all fuck about fighting anywhere else but your org!
That’s the way it should be in a free country.
There’s no trade secrets or IP that fighters are made privy to like senior engineers and executives. In those situations you can write an employment contract that forbids you from working for a competitor. But MMA? It’s complete BS.
http://jobsearchtech.about.com/od/laborlaws/l/aa042202_2.htm
One day, MMA will become big enough that a fighter in the UFC will take them to court for their oppressive and illegal contracts. Couture already did it, backed by Mark Cuban’s deep wallet, and only backed off after the UFC paid him off (there’s no other reason for him to settle the day before the first ruling in the case). If Brock wanted to fight Fedor, he could get out of his UFC contract, just like he got out of his WWE non-compete clause to join the UFC.
do you see the flaw in your logic though?
The UFC was able to pay him off, so it really doesn’t matter. Why fight to get out of the contract that is going to pay you more than anyone else?
Randy realized his UFC deal was better than the deal Affliction/Cuban had on the table for the Fedor fight, will anyone else ever grasp this?
To add fuel to the fire:
Fedor Emelianenko: “Сertainly, I would like to have a rematch with Werdum. But as he had surgery this fight unlikely to happen soon. This year, in November-December, I would like to meet in a cage with Alistair Overeem”
http://mixfight.ru/news/2010/8/24/
I find that highly unlikely
But if its true, that is awesome news!!!
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
You go Fedor. Wonder what M-1 will do if Fedor really wants the Overeem fight? Wonder if Dream would try to do the Overeem fight on NYE in their cage-thingy?
At the end of the day,
Fedor is their only real money-maker – I have to believe if he truly insists on a particular fight, it will happen.
Maybe he has gotten tired of everyone asking him why he is ducking Overeem…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
After reading this entire comment section,
I have come to one conclusion:
Fedor fans are more annoying than BJ fans.
They're pretty equally annoying...
That’s what happens when you are dealing with apologists…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 24, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
After reading this comment section
I realize that the WWE fanboy continent of UFC fans have zero understanding of the history of this sport. And they never will.
by memitim on Aug 24, 2010 11:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I haven’t watched wrestling since I was a child, but the fact that you love Fedor doesn’t mean shit to the world at large. You need to grasp that the people on message boards are less than 1% of the people buying PPVs.
And you have to recognize
… That a guy who is fighting the best HW’s in the world for a decade without losing is going to draw an audience. Brock draws because of his WWE fan base. He is also huge and skilled. He doesn’t have a fraction of the accomplishments Fedor does. Not even close. Now you can chant “UFC” all you want. And they are zomg teh best, doesn’t mean they have all the best fighters and doesn’t change the fact that not one single fighter in UFC compares to what Fedor has done. Not one.
by memitim on Aug 25, 2010 11:46 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think Fedor haters are far more annoying that Fedor fans
I’m a Fedor fan, but a realistic one. Even though I think Fedor can beat Brock because his striking defence is crap, I think Anderson Silva beats Fedor via a striking and movement clinic.
I just think it’s truly pathetic that all you guys want Fedor to be a slave to the UFC. They gave him a shit offer in 2007, and he’s still finishing up the six-fight contract that M1 gave him then. What’s the matter with that? You all get furious when an athlete from a local franchise bolts for another or demands a trade or holds out, yet you want Fedor to back out of his obligations with M1?
No I dont want Fedor to do anything but go away.
That is were you are wrong. He should STAY with M1, they are a perfect fit. I don’t want him in the UFC or Strikeforce, he needs to head back to DREAM.
So it isn’t me thats pathetic, its your reading abilities and Fedor/M1. You have never seen me furious, why all these assumptions? I want M1/Fedor to head back to the HUGE TV contracts in Russia, make millions of dollars and go away. Vanish. If Fedor/M1 is so incredible at promoting, fighting, business, PPV draw, why do you want to ride every ones jock to the bank? It is because they can’t do shit for themselves and bring ZERO to the table.
Spoken like a true...
Dana minion with all the juvenile references to go along with it. I know it is much easier to have Dana tell you who you should think is the best and cheer for but there is a group of us who enjoy watching the best fighters in the world, whether they chose to fight in the UFC or not.
by memitim on Aug 25, 2010 12:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
"Slave to UFC"
Cute rhetoric, but it’s stupid.
People don’t like that M-1, who is a bottom tier fight promotion, tries to use the value of a high ranked fighter to get other organizations to take on unfavorable deals. Is it illegal? Of course not. Is it going to win them fans? Nope. Especially when they’re ready and willing to let a great fighter in his prime sit on the shelf, or fight nobodies, rather than get in there and do what he should be doing, which is fighting contenders. This is not new and it’s been happening since 2005.
We should be talking about Fedor’s fights. Instead all that’s out in the news is M-1’s grand new negotiations, M-1 doesn’t want this fight, M-1 doesn’t want that fight, M-1 wants to do this, M-1 is going to take their ball and go to Japan. Great. They can do whatever they want. And they look like douchebags, and the community has responded as such. If you or M-1 doesn’t like the reaction to how M-1 acts, perhaps M-1 needs to change how they act. Because obviously it is not popular amongst fight fans.
Fans don’t want to see fighter’s managers picking and choosing fights, or hardballing organizations while a fighter waits on the sidelines. This is politics. We like fighting. When a top 10 fighter decides to fight lower tier opponents due to politics, this is not exciting for fans. This will never be exciting. If the Saints decided to sit out of the Superbowl because the NFL didn’t want to pay them enough, and they didn’t want to be “Slaves” to the NFL, football fans would be pissed.
You can defend it all day, as you apparently have stock in M-1, but the fact is they’re about as popular amongst MMA fans as the RIAA is with music fans. They want to stop the bad press? Stop doing stupid shit. But they’re intent on milking their mealticket until he’s gone, and when Fedor retires, M-1 will go with him.
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