Strikeforce 'Houston' Results: Just How Bad Is Referee Jon Schorle?
by Luke Thomas on Aug 22, 2010 2:00 PM EDT
in MMA News
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If you missed the breathtaking incompetence, here's a recap of Schorle's inability to properly do his job last night:
But Griggs managed to get back to his feet on a few occasions, forcing Lashley to expend more energy trying to get him back to the ground. On one of those subsequent takedown attempts, Griggs tagged Lashley with an uppercut that opened a bad cut under his left eye that continued bleeding the rest of the way.
The fight took a turn on Lashley in the second round. While in the mount, but not staying extremely active, referee Jon Schorle inexplicably called for a stand up. But there was some confusion in the moment as Schorle then had doctor's check on Lashley's cut. He then restarted them standing rather than in the advantageous position that Lashley held.
An exhausted Lashley lunged for a takedown, but Griggs held him off and unleashed a torrent of punches, many of which appeared to land to the back of Lashley's head, until the round ended. But though he survived to the end of the round, Lashley was battered and couldn't make it back to his feet immediately, causing Schorle to stop the fight.
Sports Illustrated's Josh Gross Tweeted his frustrations:
Jimmy Lennon says referee Jon Schorle had seen enough. I've seen enough of Schorle. He's never improved as a MMA ref. Ever. Awful.
Not that Lashley is some prize. He was dead tired at the end of the second. But the outcome was a direct result of incompetent officiating.
It isn't just in MMA refereeing that Schorle has failed to properly officiate. He's beyond the pale in both boxing and MMA. Jordan Breen elaborates:
If you're a boxing fan, you'll be dismayed to find out that Schorle, a Californian-based official now splitting time in Texas, was the referee who stood by while Vic Darchinyan beat Victor Burgos until he had a blood clot in his brain, resulting in emergency surgery and an induced coma following the bout. He was the third man in the ring for Vitali Klitschko beating hapless Corrie Sanders to a pulp. He oversaw the Erik Morales-Zahir Raheem bout -- which he allowed to devolve into a clinch-filled slip-and-slide on a soaked canvas -- as well as Joel Casamayor-Michael Katsidis, in which a thrilling bout was compromised by Schorle's all-around inattentiveness. Schorle's reputation is such that before the rubber match in his epic trilogy with Rafael Marquez, Israel Vazquez's camp fought viciously and successfully to have Schorle removed as the bout's referee and replaced with Pat Russell. These are just a few recent examples.
...
However, Schorle's most infamous MMA moment came in the March 2006 quasi-snuff film that was Rob McCullough-Olaf Alfonso. Just moments into the second round, McCullough landed a crushing right cross that sent Alfonso's mouthguard airborne. As the supine Olaf lay on the mat with a predatory foe above him, Schorle took a cursory glance at Alfonso's eyes -- which are glassy and googly even at his most lucid -- and then walked across the cage to retrieve the mouthguard. McCullough took the chance to land three absolute killshots on the defenseless Alfonso, as the miserably out-of-position Schorle made a mad dash to stop McCullough from pureeing Olaf's face.
Don't think that I intend this article as a hit piece on Schorle, and don't confuse my critique of the referee with an attack on the person. I bring up his prior bad acts to emphasize the question of how an official can get away with such consistently awful officiating in well-publicized debacles and not only be rewarded with plum assignments, but also remain unscathed and unnoticed by fans and media. Schorle is not just a liability as an official that I wanted to single out, but his position is symptomatic of larger problems with the discourse surrounding officiating in MMA -- problems we're all accessories to.
If you're asking how this kind of stunning incompetence can happen so regularly, it's because in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king. That is, athletic commissions across America are struggling to fill their ranks with referees, judges, time keepers and other administrative personnel with competent employees. Talk to commission heads and they'll echo this sentiment. Some commissions are probably content with whatever quality they can produce and seem immune to criticism, but most will candidly tell you they need help.
There is no judging or refereeing conscription. We are dealing with commission officials who, for better or worse, are a volunteer army. Schorle might be slighlty more capable than the average orangutan, but if there are no alternatives due to a lack of volunteering then, by default, Schorle is your best option.
It's both reflexive and somewhat fair to pin the blame on the Texas commission. God knows they've got their issues (and they never responded to my formal request for information regarding the actual attendance numbers and live gate receipts from Shark Fights shows). But until the combat sports community recognizes many hands make light work, they should just come to terms with the fact that referees who endanger the lives of fighters or improperly tilt the balance in one fighter's favor are going to be par for the course.
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Jon Schorle is so bad he makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcolm X!
Oh wait I think I did that wrong.
Toronto FC - Where road games are forfeited and we STILL have no idea how to play from behind.
by SSreporters on Aug 22, 2010 2:10 PM EDT reply actions 9 recs
Schorle just supplanted Miragliotta (Carwin/Mir) for worst ref decision of 2010
Now I don’t know if this applies to every organization but a few months ago when Jon Jones got hit with an illegal upkick from Brandon Vera he was asked by Herb Dean if he wanted his position back. He said yes and proceeded to break Brandon’s face from his guard.
Can this apply to asking if you want full mount back?
Toronto FC - Where road games are forfeited and we STILL have no idea how to play from behind.
He stood them up from mount, he wasn't checking the cut
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 22, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I kept thinking he was checking the cut
That makes it even worse then.
Toronto FC - Where road games are forfeited and we STILL have no idea how to play from behind.
The sad/ frustrating part
is this isn’t a Major league umpire calling a ball a strike or a NBA referee missing contact on a shot.
These are trained athletes fighting in a cage. A blown call here or a brief moment of incompetence directly affects the fighters safety.
The more under trained officials we have in combat sports the greater chances are something goes wrong in the cage or ring and possibly a fighter getting hurt because of it .
Scary to think what kind of failures are happening on the local level of MMA/boxing and in smaller states with less AC manpower ( states not named CA, NJ, FL or TX for example)
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When I finally move I’m going to fill out the paperwork. I at least am more competent than anyone they had working last night minus big John.
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by Matthew Roth on Aug 22, 2010 2:17 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Just a quick search
He’s only been licensed under the Texas AC for over a year. Schorle started in boxing, then went to kickboxing, and now does MMA.
Toronto FC - Where road games are forfeited and we STILL have no idea how to play from behind.
Being a ref in MMA
has got to be the toughest job in sports. Someone’s health is in your hands and you decide whether to stop a beating or not. But you don’t want to stop it too early or too late.
That being said, he did a bad job last night and that needs to be addressed. Hopefully things can get better with this.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
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Ref Jon Schorle
There was alot of bad calls all night,the judging in MMA has got to improve or someone will get hurt.Jon Schorle just seems not to know his way around the cage or the rules from state to state is confusing him.
by TERRENCEFROMSOUTHEAST on Aug 22, 2010 2:29 PM EDT reply actions
The Gurgel fight was tough to ref as well
There were basically two difficult decisions to make in it:
1. What do you do if a fighter lands a serious knockdown punch that clearly comes after the bell but is sort of an exchange?
2. What do you do if a fighter lands an illegal headkick while you’re already on your way in to stopping the fight?
Personally I’d have probably given Noons the benefit of the doubt on the second one – since you’d probably rather have a sketchy KO on your hands than a sketchy DQ – but, if I really had the safety of the fighters in mind, I’d have called a No-Contest after the punch that dropped Gurgel. It was technically an illegal move (although probably not intentional) and Gurgel was clearly in no position to continue after it landed. No-Contests are never popular calls, but sometimes you have to be prepared to take the tough decision.
Side note: Didn’t the timekeeper mess up during the Jacare fight as well?
That fight really should have been stopped after the knockout punch after the bell in the first round. Not Noons’ fault, with how fast that sequence was it’s completely feasible that he didn’t hear the bell before throwing the reactionary punch, but it was a punch thrown after the bell that knocked Gurgel silly. The ref shouldn’t have had Gurgel come out for that second round, and it probably would have been a no contest.
by Jamie Penick on Aug 22, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
agree, it should have been stopped
or at the very least shouldn’t Gurgel been given 5 minuets? If you get hit with an illegal shot during the round you get up to 5 minutes, but since Gurgel was hit after the round had ended he only gets the one minute? Overall one the worst nights of reffing I’ve seen
5 minutes for Gurgel is not the issue in that case. He got concussed by the unintentionally late punch. it is extremely dangerous for him to receive another concussion even withing 2 weeks after the first one. 1 minute or 5 minutes makes absolutely no difference when it takes at least a week to truly heal from a concussion
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Aug 23, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t even realize it was the same guy as the Razor Rob fight. Was there any kind of probation after that? If not how many times does an official need to show gross incompetence (not saying anything last night represented “gross” incompetence) before action within a respective commission is taken?
by bubbafat on Aug 22, 2010 2:42 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Let's be real: the man is an awful ref
But the stand-up wasn’t un-warranted. It’s a dominant position, but Lashley wasn’t throwing any shots, or trying to go for a submission of any kind, he was just using it as a chance to catch his breath. If he was making ANY attempt to end the fight I would disagree whole-heartedly, but the fact is the man was about as active on top as I am sitting in my chair typing this message.
Make no mistake: Schorle wasn’t moving off Lashley to check the cut, he was restarting the match on the feet, and when he saw the blood on Lashley’s face (and likely Lashley’s sloth-like disposition) he had the cut checked.
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Agreed.
Bobby could barely get up at that point, he was clearly gassed out. Should he have been allowed to rest on top of Griggs?
Yes
Unless Griggs could do something to get out from underneath
by dreamers_12345 on Aug 22, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think so, and that's why I wasn't upset with the stand-up
It’s in the rules that if you’re inactive it gets reset. If the rules were written differently it would be one thing, but that’s the way the sport is today. I mean, it’s not like it would’ve taken THAT much effort to posture a foot or two and pretend to land some blows.
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Watch the fight, Bobby was not just laying and praying, he was working, Jon Jones working, no, but still throwing strikes here and there, the bar for being stood up in such a dominant position is high, just by lashleys being on top he is wearing out the bottom fighter, being mounted and trying to escape sucks.
three actual strikes in 40 seconds is working? The last ten seconds saw him simply laying there. Griggs landed more from the bottom at that point.
Bobby was gassed out, plain and simple. As I said, he had trouble simply getting to his feet at that point.
Have you ever seen a stand up with a fighter mounted before?
I honestly can’t rember seeing that before. IMO, there isn’t a senario where you should stand up a fight with a guy mounted, it’s up to the fighter that’s mounted to find a way up.
Have you ever seen a man that inactive while in mount?
That’s why you’ve never seen a stand-up from there. Like it or hate it, the fact is that Lashley was inactive, and he got stood up for it. Most of the time you see guys raining down strikes with ferocity or volume to end the fight; he was doing NEITHER.
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by -Neil- on Aug 22, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just how bad is Jon Schorle?
As Alfred Hitchcock might say, “very bad indeed”.
Give me smallest finger on man's hand. I'll produce information. Computer unnecessary.
by hobbie on Aug 22, 2010 3:08 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
There are NO circumstances in my mind that would allow for a standup from mount. Even if the guy on top is throwing ZERO punches. Its like standing someone up from a rear naked choke becuase that guy is taking too long to choke someone out!
It’s a lot more like someone who has his opponents back, and isn’t even GOING for the choke. There’s a difference between ineffective offense and zero offense.
You know what's really fun? Not being a raving lunatic. Give it a try some time, you might just like it!
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Holy shit this is the ref from the Rob McCullough-Olaf Alfonso incident?
I remember saying that this dude needed to be fired right away.
FIRE THIS REF!!!!!
He's also a curse in kickboxing
For example, he was the ref for the Sefo/Eastman bout that developed into a post fight brawl.
I think the dangerous problem here is...
that training, tactics in the fights and fighter development overall is moving light years faster than the very necessary support structures of Athletic Commissions, Refing and Judging.
Something very tragic could be in the future of the sport based on that difference in development.
I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.
We will always be stuck with refs like Schorle and Miragliotta, judges like Peoples and debacles like Grosinsky’s lost blood work as long as we allow the government to run MMA.
Breen was spot on when he trashed Schorle and he was also right when he said that Schorle was merely a symptom of the true problem. Unfortunately, Breen missed the mark when he blamed the fans and the media for the sad state of refing. The problem is the grossly incompetent athletic commissions, that hold monopolies over refs, judges and drug testing.
The media and fans can jump and down and scream ‘till were blue in the face and it isn’t going to change a damn thing. The athletic commission bureaucrats don’t answer to the fans or the media; they aren’t directly elected by the public and their salaries aren’t dependent on the quality of the judges and refs or the accuracy of the drug tests.
The only way to solve these problems is to abolish state athletic commissions’ monopoly and give the promotors, fighters and fans choice over who to employ. Some promoters will pick good refs and some promoters will hire refs like Schorle — but at least the fans (and the fighters) will have a say in the matter. As it stands now we’re at the mercy of a a bunch of disinterested bureaucrats, who have proven time and time again, that they are completely incompetent (or corrupt.)
You honestly don't see a problem with promotor's hiring the refs and judges?
I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.
Schorle might be slighlty more capable than the average orangutan, but if there are no alternatives due to a lack of volunteering then, by default, Schorle is your best option.
Actually, if it’s a legit option, I think they should give that average orangutang a tryout at least the next time a commission is desperate enough to let Schorle ref at a show.
The problem is...
These athletics commissions don’t read these comments, if action is to be done, someone needs to do the research and find the email address of the person who is in charge of these shitty refs. I’d be willing to send some emails if someone knows where to send them. It’s the right thing to do.
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How bad of a writer is Luke Thomas?
The real question here is why is Luke Thomas writing such slanted articles without revealing both sides? Luke Thomas has a TV, a computer and an opinion and that’s it!
He cheapened this article by short cutting and coping other previously written articles because he’s lazy and cant do the proper research on his own. The same thing that Jordan Breen of Sherdog did.
OK, I don’t hate Schorle but I don’t love him either. But the fact is I’ve watched this guy for years refereeing boxing, kickboxing and MMA. He’s a very competent referee overall.
Let’s be fair and because Luke Thomas can’t be. Did anyone see the Leonard Garcia vs. The Korean Zombie fight in April on the WEC 48 first PVT card? Maybe the best MMA fight I’ve ever seen. Joe Rogan called it "the fight of the decade" and mentioned that Joe Silva the UFC matchmaker said "it was the best fight he’d ever seen". Schorle was the referee for that fight. How about on the same card the Mike Brown vs. Manny Gamburian fight? Schorle was the referee on that also. He made a perfectly timed stoppage. I just bought the DVD and watched in slow motion. The timing of the stop was perfect!
Since Luke Thomas brought it up lets talk about the Vitaly Klitscho vs. Corrie Sanders WBC Heavyweight champion fight from about 2004? I watched it live on HBO and they praised Schorle’s stoppage. What about that Luke Thomas you liar? In Kickboxing how about the K-1 Michael McDonald vs. Remy Bonjousky final in Vegas? They used to show it on ESPN2 all the time. Another great great fight and Schorle refereed that also.
With regards to the Katsidis vs. Casamayor fight, didn’t Ring magazine call it the best lightweight fight of 2008? And the 5th best fight of 2008. Yeah Schorle was the Referee for that one to.
Just this year there was the PPV Julio Ceaser Chavez Jr. fight against John Duddy in Texas. Schorle was praised for his handling from start to finish. Or the PPV Eric Morales vs. Jose Alfaro fight. No problems there just a great fight and Schorle was the referee on that one to.
I was at the Strikeforce show sitting in the 3rd row. Lashley had run out of gas and was just lying there. People in our section were calling a bum. All Schorle did was stand them up to get some action back in the fight. It looked like he called the doctor in secondary because Lashley was complaining about his eye. Lashley got his ass kicked by a nobody and now Strikeforce is crying. The guy is a sideshow not a real MMA fighter and he got exposed so that’s that.
Look, I don’t care if they vilify this referee or they honor him but lets at least be fair. All Luke Thomas did was go on the Internet and do a search. He found older articles written by Lame f*cks like the (pocked face) Steve Kim of Max boxing or that (porn freak) from sherdog, Jordan Breen. He rewrote some of the context and copied word for word other parts. What a piece of sh*t Luke Thomas is!
(If none of you have ever seen Josh Gross of sports illustrated he is the biggest dork in MMA. Josh Gross was at a party in Ca. in 2006 and trying to fit in so he took a huge bong hit and fell over like a tree going timber! It was the biggest joke in MMA in Ca. for a couple of years. Wonder if Josh Gross has gotten any better smoking dope since then?)
The cool thing is now we know what this Luke Thomas fag looks like. Luke, is that really a beard or did your cat die? Get a real job mommy’s boy!
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