Strikeforce's One Sided Marketing Backfires Again
by Brian Hemminger on Aug 22, 2010 1:24 AM EDT
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Strikeforce: Houston has come and gone, and we were graced with a pair of very interesting upsets. Chad Griggs put a halt to the Bobby Lashley 2011 title talk with a stoppage victory at the end of the 2nd round and Rafael "Feijão" Cavalcante shocked the world with a TKO over the very heavily promoted "King" Mo Lawal to win the Strikeforce light heavyweight title.
Actually, that's not true. What could have been a very compelling story was marred by the fact that nearly all the fans watching those two fights had no idea who the hell Chad Griggs or Feijão were.
This was once again an example of the Strikeforce marketing team failing to answer the questions that get fans buzzing about a specific fight. As the great Paul Heyman said this past week when talking about promoting:
Who are these two guys? Why are they fighting? And why should I care?
Take a look at this Strikeforce promo for the Strikeforce: Houston event.
Notice anything? More than half of the commercial was devoted to hyping up King Mo. All they even said about Feijão was that he was fighting King Mo. Hell, they are so certain that Bobby Lashley is going to win that they don't even tell you his opponent. They don't give you a reason to get invested in the outcome of the fight at all. That's just bad marketing. It's as if they aren't prepared for the possibility that these men could lose.
This isn't the first time that Strikeforce's one sided marketing has blown up in their face. Does this bring back any memories?
Oh yeah, Dan Henderson vs Jake Shields. Strikeforce was so certain that Henderson was going to roll over Shields that they didn't even promote their own champion in a title fight. Look at that promo. They don't even mention that Shields is their middleweight champion other than a flashed subtext under his name that's visible for a millisecond. You can only read it if you have DVR and you pause the screen. Henderson is shown walking out of a car, slamming a heavy bag, get's mentioned as one of the most decorated fighters in MMA history and is given the only 2 speaking parts of the commercial. Jake Shields? He's shown hitting a punching bag. Come on!
Want another example? How about Fedor Emelianenko. A fighter who hadn't lost in 10 years. Do they put him in a title fight immediately after his destruction of Brett Rogers? No. They put him in against a dangerous Fabricio Werdum and they don't hype Werdum whatsoever. All they cared about was a Fedor victory and a massive Emelianenko-Overeem title fight on the horizon.
I know it's cliche, but they need to take a page from the UFC's playbook here. No matter how one-sided a fight may seem, the UFC is usually prepared for that upset, and they're ready to launch whoever wins the fight to that next level. How do they do this? They make both fighters seem as dangerous as they can.
Look at the Jon Jones-Vladimir Matyushenko fight. As much as the media was ranting and raving about Jon Jones, the UFC made sure to give Matyushenko as big of a push as they could. Despite "The Janitor" not having been on a UFC main card in over seven years, they made references to his high level wrestling ability, his record, his history with the promotion.
Look at this UFC: Jones vs Matyushenko promo
They even made it look like Matyushenko had heavy hands despite the fact that 5 of his last 6 wins had been decisions. In the incredibly unlikely chance that Matyushenko defeated Jones, they were prepared to shift some of Jones' momentum to Matyushenko.
Let's go back to where we started. How much did you know about Chad Griggs before tonight? If you did a little digging you could find that he is a firefighter, and that he only has one career loss. Other than that? Nothing. What would have happened if Bobby Lashley had defeated Griggs anyways? Nothing. Griggs was never presented as an opponent that was even remotely dangerous. He was merely a stepping stone for Bobby Lashley's future superstardom. Fans (like myself) were expecting a one-sided beatdown and nothing more.
Strikeforce should have learned from EliteXC and Kimbo Slice. When you put all your eggs in one basket, you've got nothing left in case that other basket wins.
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When most of the fighters on your poster lose, you have a problem…
You cant compete with the WWE because they can choreograph the outcomes that they want better than you can… so why try?
Yeah, putting four particular guys on a tiny web banner means they’re trying to fix the outcomes of the fights. By the way, here is the actual poster:
Hey look, there they are!
I think the “sky is falling” crowd hacking at SF after every event is really starting to lose faith. Clearly mmalogic here is barely even trying anymore, his posts now come in envelope form.
Ironically, the last three major shows for SF actually seem to be proving the resiliency of the promotion, barely a year after they got their TV deals. None of the outcomes really hurt them. Bobby Lashley was a goofy project they were inevitably going to scrap anyway. With Feijao as the champ, now they can have him fight the Babalu/Hendo winner or take on Mousasi. You could certainly say their depth is limited at 205lbs, but they have enough depth at every division now that they can course-correct for any one particular outcome. I find it funny how everyone tries to paint a picture of Scott Coker freaking out when their operation keeps getting more and more refined (and consistently entertaining) despite several favorites going down recently. Reminds me of UFC in 2006-2007.
by smoogy2 on Aug 22, 2010 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I'm not saying that the underdogs winning wasn't a good thing
I’m just incredibly disappointed they aren’t giving the underdogs a push whatsoever before the fight. They are basically banking on all the hype from one fighter transferring over to the other fighter in case they win. That’s not a smart strategy.
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by Brian Hemminger on Aug 22, 2010 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
What?
Was Aldo/Faber set up for one guy to lose? How about Jorgensen/Pickett? Cruz/Benavidez II?
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by Derek Suboticki on Aug 22, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
The WEC seems like an excellent example of an org where they were banking on all the hype from one fighter transferring over to the other fighter in case they won. I mean, they gave a title shot to Brown off an unaired undercard fight. Same with Cerrone.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 22, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
WEC may have done that in the past (same can be said about Miguel Torres’s title challengers) but they wised up and have been building their contenders the right way this past year.
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by Brian Hemminger on Aug 22, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
They have, but in general the WEC has spent most of their time building up only a couple guys – Faber and Torres. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that, BTW. I mean, building the title contenders the right way has earned the WEC record low viewership (trending lower each show) three shows in a row.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 22, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
The WEC has always tried to build up title fights, even if they weren’t able to push a guy"s fights beforehand once they are challenging for the belt they get plenty of advertising. It’s not like they were advertising URIJAH FABER vs some guy who doesn’t even deserve to be on the poster for their events.
So basically, we’re applying the same standard in order to qualify the WEC as “pushing guys equally” as we are Strikeforce. I think the point is made.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 22, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not about pushing guys equally it’s about not pushing one guy at all. The WEC tries to at least push the contender as a threat, sometimes Strikeforce doesn’t even mention the contender by name in the advertising. A good way to build new stars is to push them going into big fights that way win or lose they can gain credibility, that is where Strikeforce is failing, they just aren’t creating new stars out of these fights, if the name guy loses then both guys tend to fall off instead of both guys being bigger stars.
Are we really going to pretend that the WEC spent significant time building up Mike Brown or Takeya Mizugaki? Faber was the star and treated that way. All the promotion leading into the fight was about him, and in fact, the first basically bombed in terms of ratings.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 22, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Faber is the star but one of the reasons he became the star he is is because they pushed his opponents enough so people believed his wins were meaningful. Mizugaki didn’t get pushed enough before his title fight but all of Faber’s title fights got pushed from both sides. Hell it’s stupid to only push one competitior in a fight because what you are trying to sell as being a must see event is the actual fight.
This is ridiculously false. I remember tons of media tours before Faber and Torres fights where the “opponent” dujour wasn’t even present! At least they put Griggs on a conference call.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 23, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn’t at the media tours, I was watching the commercials on tv (like most fans would be). TV is where the advertising to try to get someone to watch your show on tv is done.
I watched TV too. You know how many pieces of promo video I saw on Jeff Curran? Zero. No one cared about him. The only guy they put anything behind promotionally with Faber was Pulver.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 23, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure everything they’ve invested in from Fedor, Bobby Lashley, Hendo, Gegard, etc… has paid off in spades. right…
Unfortunately IFL’s and Elite’s and Bodog’s product was also at its most “refined” right before the last stage of its life.
clearly Strikeforce has everyone where it wants it.
Let’s take a look at how their product has been “refined”… They just lost their best fighter in Jake shields… They lost the #1 HW… They lost their second best WW (Jay Heiron).
They are signing a guy who lost out of the UFC like paul Daley. Sergie Kharitonov who’s clearly the future of the HW division… Batista in a last ditch prayer to try and get back on CBS. And the rest of their roster are filled with guys who couldnt make it in the UFC or guys who are trying to build a name and experience so one day they can get into the UFC.
So yes a year later they went from being able to pretend they are competing with the UFC to being forced to accept the clear reality of a feeder league. I bet coker is loving how well his product has been “refined”.
"They just lost their best fighter in Jake shields"
Uhh no… Fedor is their best fighter. Also they haven’t signed Daley yet.
Can you please name all the guys who “couldn’t make it in the UFC” because there really isn’t many. Werdum, Arlovski, Henderson all left the UFC due to contract disputes they weren’t cut due to performance or anything like that. Babalu wasn’t cut from the UFC due to not being able to make it (he definitely had success in the UFC) but because he held to a submission too long. Robbie Lawler went 4-3 in the UFC so he had a winning record. Nick Diaz won his last two UFC fights and went 6-4 in the UFC. Joe Riggs had a .500 record in the UFC with wins over Nick Diaz, Lytle & Joe Doerksen & also was a #1 welterweight contender. He was on a one loss streak when he exited the UFC. Josh Thomson went 2-1 in the UFC with his only loss being to Yves Edwards.
I guess the only guy who couldn’t make it in the UFC was Gurgel and he’s also 1-2 in Strikeforce so he can’t make it here either.
So the guy who just lost to a guy who went 2-2 in the UFC was the best fighter in Strikeforce over Jake Shields? ok.
You just described a bunch of guys with UFC records (at a time when the competition wasnt nearly as fierce as it is now) of .500, 4-3, 6-4, a guy who had 2 shots at the UFC title 3 years ago but lost both, babalu who got knocked the fuck out by a guy who couldnt make it the UFC’s 185lb division, etc,,,
That sounds like a feeder league to me. Oh I forgot cung le, Hershall walker, and possibly batista… My mistake… I should say a feeder league with gimmicks.
Yes i'm saying that
Fedor who is the greatest HW MMA fighter ever is their best fighter..
Every fighter loses… GSP loses, Anderson Silva loses, Jake Shields loses, Randy Couture loses, Rampage loses, Lesnar loses, etc..
it’s pretty obvious you’re just trying to hate on Strikeforce so whatever. I like all promotions so it doesn’t bother me, haters are everywhere. Mo was right MMA “fans” mostly suck and are haters
by TylerTreese on Aug 22, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly though. You didn’t just describe much of a shark tank. The reality is that SF is not top notch competition, except for the very top echelon of one or two divisions. The number of credible opponents in each division can be counted on a single hand. The number of legitimate challengers to the belt are practically negligible. A belt that, lets not forget, does not require you to be a top contender to challenge for.
Yes what was he thinking. He should of used these posters to show their one sided advertising instead.
The point of the fanpost was about Strikeforce only pushing the guys they assume will win instead of both guys and it’s hard to deny that that is exactly what they do. Strikeforce’s marketing really needs some work.
by who me on Aug 22, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
But the UFC has done that for years
Who’s Carlos Newton fighting?
Ken Shamrock is shown alone and didn’t actually fight, Vitor Belfort and Frank Mir are on the poster but not Marvin Eastman and Wes Sims.
Apparently Chuck Liddell is mad he doesn’t have an opponent.
Where is Justin Eilers, Bill Manhood, and Kevin Jordan?
I think Rampage is the ref.
Did Arlovski and Bisping fight?
UFC 72 was headlined by a san-do match.
No one wants to fight Cain.
And as for a promo that only focuses on one fighter (and doesn’t even mention the main event) how can we forget this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRO4Ua6warY
I think the more likely explanation is that Strikeforce, much like the UFC used to do, focuses their limited resources on promoting the fighters they know will draw. Maybe it isn’t the smart thing to do, but they also don’t have the luxury of being able to run extensive ad campaigns or the power of their brand to fall back on.
by John Nash on Aug 23, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
...Touche
Still, Strikeforce seems to do it every time, the UFC normally has both fighters on the poster.
But, I can’t argue too hard, you’ve made your point.
nice counterpoint
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by Brian Hemminger on Aug 23, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
i really don't think it is.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis
Nice point, but most of those are ancient. Did you really cite Carlos Newton as an example? That was a different era. The UFC is currently a marketing and advertising machine. Strikeforce continues show after show after show to do the same thing. They never seem to address any of it.
Hard core MMA fan since UFC 99
I got a kick out of his point being that Strikeforce does things like the UFC used to do them years ago. Almost all the posters did actually have both main event guys on there, particularly the title fights, Strikeforce is lucky if it even mentions that a belt is at stake on the poster.
So I guess Strikeforce gets a pass because they are advertising entire cards like the UFC did for their undercards when they were still losing money and about to fold too? Is that an actual excuse for them screwing up their marketing currently or just irony?
by who me on Aug 23, 2010 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Yeah, 2-3 years ago is ancient history
Or it could be that the reason the UFC did that was the same reason Strikeforce does it now – it’s cheaper to market the big names.
You and me both would like for them to market both the champion and the contender, but how do you propose Strikeforce do that? With the massive ad campaigns they run? With the Countdown shows they air? With the full-fledged support of the channel they are partnered with? Strikeforce doesn’t have the benefit of any of those so they do what films have been doing for ever, and that’s push the people that will affect the gate.
Holy shit, where is Al Pacino? Everyone knows he was the star. But there’s a reason they pushed Brando, because his performance could sell tickets. The same reason Brock was the only one they pushed for 81. And guess what, it was smart because it sold 300,000-350,000 more than it would have otherwise. Which is why Hendo was pushed for Nashville, they were hoping he was a big enough star to carry it, Which is why they don’t push the Strikeforce titles: because no one watches a show because it’s for the Strikeforce title.
I wish they would do a much better job of promoting their fighters, the upcoming cards, and their belts, but I think everyone has to be a bit more realistic about what they are trying to accomplish with basically no budget.
Or it could be that the reason the UFC did that was the same reason Strikeforce does it now – it’s cheaper to market the big names.
Sure except for the facts that the UFC posters you showed have both competitors for title events on them (with the exception of the 2001 Carlos Newton poster). How much extra money does it take to mention both guys by name on a poster or in a commercial? How much extra money does it take to put a picture of both title contestants on a poster or commercial? How much extra money does it take to do an interview with a title contender on a show instead of interviewing the champion? How much more money does it take to actually mention a title fight is a title fight in the advertising?
How often do they market the belts? Have they ever actually marketed the belts on a poster? Now I think that’s a mistake, but from a promotional point of view it might not be. The UFC belts matter to fans. They mattered even when Zuffa bought the promotion years ago. Why? Because everyone knows what Ultimate FIghting is. It has a built in recognition beyond what the current ownership has accomplished. No one knows what Strikeforce is and by advertising the belts they may just add more confusion or open themselves up to more comparison than it’s worth. What matters to those watching Strikeforce is that a bunch of the stars they like are fighting. That’s why this is their best poster:
It distinguishes their product from the UFC and lets you know you are in for some cool fights with some guys you recognize. Fortunately it includes all four fighter from the two main events, but even if they swapped Bigfoot out for another fighter it would have worked.
Not advertising the belts? Mo’s wearing his belt in the poster at the top, so I’m not sure what you’re talking about here. Maybe I’m misinterpreting your statement.
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I mean when have they ever put " for the Strikeforce Championship" on the poster. The only time a title fight got a real push was for the Nashville card when it was hyped as four champions fighting for three belts. They didn’t even mention King Mo was in a title fight. But the belt is aesthetically appealing.
Actually like that poster (well except for Arlovski apparently being the shot in the back), it does a good job of making a big deal out of all four of them and has who is fighting who on there too. It didn’t point out that the Overeem fight was a title fight but other than that it covers all the bases pretty good. Compare that to the Strikeforce Evolution or Strikeforce Miami posters that don’t even give casual fans enough basic information to figure out what is going on.
Those are standard star promoting posters. .jpg)
They are merely following the tried and true methods of Hollywood.
The most recent of those examples is from like 07
It’s 2010 baby. With the exception of the fight night or Brock’s debut which i think both should be incomparable here for obvious reasons.
It’s an irrelevant argument.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis
yep and that changes….well it changes nothing at all about this being as the actual main event for the card and the second most important fight has both guys advertised. Not to mention Cain was fighting a guy who had just came to the UFC as a potential prospect. Neither that poster or any of the others is anything like the Striekforce posters at all, they all show both main event fighters except the 2001 Newton poster (and even it shows both of the heavyweight contenders for that title fight). No one is saying Strikeforce should put everyone on the poster or advertise every fight but good grief perhaps you should mention both guys involved in a title fight (or even that it is a title fight) somewhere in your advertising.
Strikeforce’s stage of development in 2007 = Zuffa’s in 2007. It’s absolutely relevant. Why do people constantly want to hold Strikeforce up to current UFC standards? They’ve been a national promoter for a much shorter amount of time.
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Because marketing events and development as a fight promotion aren’t related like that. It’s not holding them to the “same standard”, hell I’m not sure why the UFC wass even brought into this to start with, this is about what marketing works best and what marketing doesn’t. Using out dated or flawed marketing isn’t a good idea no matter who you are or how long you have been developing as a company. The silly org fighting is just plain old, this is a discussion of which marketing works best can we just discuss that without trying to defend Strikeforce just because they are Strikeforce?
If you want to actually compare then even in the presented posters going back to 2001 the UFC was putting both main card fighters on the poster. Not sure what that ever had to do with anything but then I wasn’t the one who brought those up. It’s not like making a poster or commercial that has both world title contestants and actually says world title match cost that much more more or is harder to produce than one that just has one of the contestants on it with no mention of who he is fighting or why.
You’re not sure why the UFC was brought into this? The author of the article brought it in, that’s why. The main balance point of the article is a direct comparison to the UFC. Why on earth would you think they don’t have a place in the conversation?
There’s a lot more to this than faces on a poster. When the UFC was pushing their top fighters against nobodies back in the day, they didn’t advertise the nobodies either. Now that they have the capital to develop fighters and promote them effectively, they’ve changed their advertising and promotional tactics. This is more about money than anything, but most people are completely ignoring that.
Do I think Strikeforce is doing the right thing in advertising like this? No. Do I think they could do a better job? Yes. But they’re using what money they do have and basically gambling on promoting the guy they think they’ll win. When your cashflow is limited, you cut corners. Sometimes it blows up in your face, sometimes it doesn’t. It’s part of being a SMALLER company. Risk.
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He put up commercial footage of UFC advertising for a specific event as an example of good advertising not as a Strikeforce vs UFC bit.
Yes there is a lot more to this than posters, the important issue would be tv commercials. As far as what the UFC used to do, it’s not that much different than what they do now, they sell the UFC brand and they sell big match ups, they make shows into must see events. It doesn’t take that much more money to put both fighers in a commercial, expense isn’t the issue effectiveness is.
So does Zuffa
/sarcasm
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by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 22, 2010 3:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Zuffa doesn't have commentators openly rooting against fighters
Frank Shamrock was downright shameful during the Shields/Henderson fight.
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by Worldisart on Aug 22, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 12 recs
I was not a fan of the announcers
Gus Johnson does a really good job with NFL football. Id prefer to see him stay there. Frank Shamrock has credentials but no personality. Mauro is the only solid guy on that team. Id prefer to see Mauro as the play by play and maybe bring back the old pride team of Bas and Quadros. Bas and Quadros are great color commentators and Mauro is the voice. Im sure it wouldnt be cheap, but would help lend some credibility to Strikeforce. Im also not a fan of Jimmy Lennon Jr. He should stay in boxing.
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
Gus
is more known for his NCAA basketball.
I actually liked it better during the Sherdog live stream when they had Pat Milletich working completely by himself. Sure he didn’t have anyone to bounce ideas off of, but Milletich definitely knows his stuff.
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by Brian Hemminger on Aug 22, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I have seen him on College B Ball but, he has announced a few Colts games as well.
Being a Colts fan I have seen Gus in action quite a few times. Gus’ style is perfect for Football and Basketball, not quite for MMA.
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
Gus Johnson does not do “a really good job with NFL football.”
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by Richard Wade on Aug 22, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This
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by Derek Suboticki on Aug 22, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I used to be indifferent But I was playing madden at best buy while waiting for someone to buy something and considered ripping my ears off.
Moreno… Finds A Hole… MAKES A MOVE… GETS SOME SPACE!!!…. second and six.
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by Derek Suboticki on Aug 22, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Im not sure if their marketing has backfired but I think these upsets are great. It opens up a whole host of interesting fights and interesting storylines that wouldnt exist if the favs just kept winning.
Regarding marketing, these results enable Strikeforce to now market these winning ‘underdogs’ more heavily in their next fights as before tonight, people didnt know who Feijou or Griggs were…..now they are the guys who beat Mo and Lashley.
They should have been marketing them in the first place. There’s no excuse for waiting to give a guy a push until he beats your stars, They should be pushing them because they are facing the stars to begin with.
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by Brian Hemminger on Aug 22, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can only assume that the challengers weren’t featured more heavily in the promos coz SF figured casual fans didnt know who they were so putting a few highlights and flashing their names on the screen wouldnt really draw many people in, as compared to putting more time into the (hopefully) more familiar faces of Mo and Lashley.
People should now recognise Griggs and Feijou more so they’ll likely feature more heavily in future promos. I dont see the problem with that really.
No.. nobody will recognize Griggs, and only hard cores will recognize Feijao. The only reason Lashley was marketable was his physique and his pro wrestling background. Not many people honestly believed he was the second coming of Brock, but the appeal still existed for the freakshow aspect. Now that it’s gone, the fame does not automatically transfer to the part time pseudo-can that SF brought in as fodder.
Mo was marketable because he talked shit, is a flashy-fly black guy, made impressive entrances, and always made for a dramatic slam. Feijao will have few of these things going for him. You can’t just expect a guy no one has ever heard of to take the reins of your superstar.
Im not saying Griggs will be a superstar, but there was no real marketing angle for him in this fight, or Feijao really. You could push them as solid opponents with some good wins but nobody was going to tune in to watch them.
Im not for a second suggesting that Griggs is now gonna be the poster boy that draws fans, but there is an angle now to market him. In his next fight, he’ll be promoted as the guy who made Lashley quit and you can be sure they’ll still use Lashleys face (and frame) in the promo for Grigg’s next fight as he is so recognizable. The longer Strikeforce runs, the more stories emerge and the more marketing angles they have.
Sure, they’re not fighters at the tip top of the food chain, but as Kimbo, Brock, Herschel Walker and Lashley show, rank and marketing potential are not necessarily intertwined.
Let me re-iterate again for absolute clarity…..Griggs and Feijao are not gonna be the next Kimbo slice or Brock Lesnar, but they’re more marketable after the Houston event.
Griggs will be lucky if he even fights in Strikeforce again, he was supposed to be a can fed to Lashley that they brought in specifically for that fight but Feijao is now their world champion, he should of got a bit of push from them as a title contender.
dude, don't lose your cool juice
you’re like a chihuahua on that Strikeforce ass, we get it you don’t like them.
If you had watched the fight they said Griggs just signed a 4 fight deal with SF. Now that Feijao is champ, I’m sure they’ll push him as the champ.
I don’t understand why everyone wants them to fail other than they aren’t Zuffa/UFC. They are the No 2 in the sport in every sense of the word, but I like to watch fights & they put them on TV…was does that piss you off?
I’m just curious, do MLB fans constantly talk shit about Triple A and the Japanese League?
Who's the only one here who knows illegal ninja moves from the government?
how does saying it’s stupid to not push 2 of the 4 people fighting in your title fights = want them to fail in your brain?
read his responses- he isn’t just talking marketing, he’s talking about contracts, production, marketing, and matchmaking.
also that part of my comment was not directed completely at him, hence the use of the word ‘everyone’ in that sentence.
Who's the only one here who knows illegal ninja moves from the government?
you’re like a chihuahua on that Strikeforce ass, we get it you don’t like them.
Shit I love Strikeforce, that is why I want them to improve their product and grow as a company. I am talking about their marketing work and what I think needs improvement.
What I don’t like is people who can’t seem to get off the org wars bullshit and just talk about the issues at hand. Do you have a advertising or marketing point to make or are you just here to cheerleed Strikeforce in some kind of puppylove white knight role?
I’m not sure how bashing them consistently over the course of these posts shows that love, or how they would possibly take your advice to heart when its presented so negatively…I’m sure SF would jump at a chance to hire you as a consultant based on your comments.
I’m obviously not cheering Strikeforce by calling out your misinformation concerning Griggs, or by calling them the #2 promotion. That is a seriously weak attempt at spinning info to make you look more legit in your arguments.
Who's the only one here who knows illegal ninja moves from the government?
You don’t wait until after to push the competitior you push them from the start so it appears that there is actually a reason for them to be in there. If casual fans see big pushed star vs guy they never heard of and the guy they never heard of wins they don’t just automatically think the guy they never heard of is now the big star lots of times they assume the star was all hype because he lost to a guy no one had ever heard of. To push a big fight (particularly a title fight) you need to make it appear that both guys are special not just the one you are hoping will win.
I’m still not sure who this “Feijou” guy is, nor do I know who “Luwal” is. If you’re going to put the effort into writing an article that long at least spell the guys names right.
by ufc4 on Aug 22, 2010 9:54 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
you have some good points
but you keep spelling fighter’s names wrong…
First off it’s Feijão not Feijou.
and it’s Lawal not Luwal.
So edit those mistakes and this will be even better
my bad
I was just trying to pump this out as fast as I could before the Sengoku fights last night. I should have double checked the spelling. It’s fixed now
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by Brian Hemminger on Aug 22, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention the countdown shows actually tend to market the challenger more than the champ
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
It’s intelligent marketing, because the challengers tend to be lesser known and the champs have been on the Countdown shows in the past.
"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen
by Charles Awad on Aug 22, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
And it's clearly effective.
The UFC Prime Time with GSP and Dan Hardy moved the betting line dramatically toward Hardy. Even though there wasn’t an upset, the way the fight was promoted made people (some anyway) seriously believe that Hardy could pull off the upset. Had he actually done it there would have been plenty of people patting themselves on the back and saying they saw that one coming.
"Before I do anything I ask myself, "Would an idiot do that?" And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." - Dwight Schrute
Thats my point
There’s no reason to not promote calvacante when he’s a challenger to the belt.
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Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on Aug 22, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I really liked the fact that you brought up the Vladdy marketing
because that is a great example of how serious the UFC is about their match-making and marketing, and how flippant others are.
It is just arrogance to think that you can consistently predict the results of mma matches, and this arrogance is especially likely among business people who think they know “business” but aren’t deeply connected to the particular business of mma.
The thing is that, ok, maybe Strikeforce’s marketing is pretty bad. But the problem starts with the match-making. So many of these matches were made based on the assumption that the “right” fighter would win. Good marketing is usually taking the truth, or reality, and blowing it up. It’s really hard to market something if there isn’t a grain of truth there to begin with.
And, Strikeforce has also had some pretty bad luck—Melendez vs. Aoki was win/win matchmaking, as was Mo/Mousassi, but those fights weren’t as exciting as people had hoped.
by Lauren J Darkbloom on Aug 22, 2010 2:58 PM EDT reply actions
About Vladdy
I just thought that was a good example because pretty much no one was giving Vladdy a shot, many didn’t know who he was and everyone was hyping up Jon Jones. It was the perfect storm for shit to go seriously wrong if Matyushenko won, but the UFC gave him a nice push. Now, even with a loss, Matyushenko can still be used on a fight night card, or a free Spike card because the fans have learned more about him.
If Griggs had lost, you would have never seen him again.
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by Brian Hemminger on Aug 22, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I like how you are holding up UFC on Versus 2 like it was the crown jewel of fight promotion. The show drew 20% less than the previous outing on Versus. It attracted an IFL level audience-yet this is what Strikeforce is supposed to “learn from?”
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 23, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Why? The great example of fight promotion he’s writing about was actually a failure at the box office.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 23, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Because his point is long-term planning, not short term ratings. You know that no matter how that card was marketed, it was going to do about the same ratings-wise. That’s why it’s irrelevant. You think if they just marketed Jones as a killer that it would have magically done better? No way.
Jones isn’t a draw yet. Building Vladdy up made sense because if he won, he wasn’t a nobody to the people watching. You’re emphasizing a point that has nothing to do with the subject.
http://www.instrength.com
See
If they had done Jones/Liddell on free TV, that would’ve gotten better ratings, thus making it a good idea.
Wait, what?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Aug 23, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, no one likes ratings and building stars is silly. I recommend building up the “opponents” in the off chance they score a fluke upset. That’s good marketing!
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 23, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
You should be promoting everyone in your organization. I have no clue why this doesn’t make any sense to you.
http://www.instrength.com
by Tim Burke on Aug 23, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
There is limited space and limited resources. Strikeforce can only count on a certain amount of coverage in a market controlled by Zuffa. What sense does is make to waste those resources on someone that isn’t ever going to be an important part of the organization?
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 23, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
If you look at my other comments in this section, I have said the same thing. Money is the key issue. It’s a matter of risk assessment, I understand that. But there’s enough money there to at least get people SOMEWHAT familiar with a guy like Griggs. I’m not saying he needs to be on posters. Neither is GotaHemmi. We’re saying that devoting ALL of your advertising and promoting to certain fighters will blow up in your face sometimes, and some balance makes sense.
It also makes wins seem more important because the fans recognize the threat in both fighters. Beating a nobody means nothing.
http://www.instrength.com
The subject is fight promotion. Wasting time building up Vlad Matyushenko is not an example of good fight promotion.
Griggs is similar to Vlad, only without a pedigree. It doesn’t matter if they devote precious time and resources to promoting him-he’s not going to matter in the long run one way or the other. It’s either a showcase fight for Jones/Lashley or it is an upset. What happens next with the “opponent” is largely irrelevant.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 23, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree. If Vladdy won, they’d be in a much better position with him if he’s promoted correctly beforehand. Same with Griggs. You can’t always hang your hat on who you think it’s going to win. It’s risky. In SF’s case, the money might not be there to build both fighters effective. But promoting one side of a non-worked fight exclusively is counterproductive because you’ll always be wrong sometimes.
http://www.instrength.com
Wow
I think you owe Vlad an apology. He went 3-0 in the UFC before the Jones fight – he wasn’t signed to lose like Griggs was.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 23, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
You are correct, sir
My point still stands.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 23, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
2-0 not 3-0
He went on a 3 fight winning streak after the Lil Nog loss beating Jason Lambert outside of the UFC.
Toronto FC - Where road games are forfeited and we STILL have no idea how to play from behind.
Of course he was. Its not the first time they’ve used him in the slot of opponent either. They did it with Arlovski.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 23, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Reading really isn't your strong suit
I said Vladdy wasn’t signed to lose, which he clearly wasn’t as evidenced by his two fights with the promotion before being slated to fight Bones. Griggs, on the other hand, was brought on specifically as a foil for Lashley.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 24, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Strikeforce should have been promoting Daniel Cormier for this card not Bobby Lashley. Cormier has far less questions about how successful he will be and far more upside than Lashley. So if your limited on marketing then why not market the guys with more upside and far fewer questions.
Just BE.
by mattman73 on Aug 22, 2010 5:03 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Zuffa has had close to 10 years to build a roster and refine their marketing, yet you people expect Strikeforce to do it overnight. Unbelievable.
by nastyem on Aug 23, 2010 9:48 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Strikeforce has years and years of other organizations experience to pull from so they don’t make the same basic mistakes (they have also been in the fight promotion business longer than Zuffa, Coker is a long time kickboxing promoter) and also works with one of the top names in boxing programming Showtime, it’s not too much to ask that they actually advertise both fighters in a title fight. It’s not like this is some kind of new and unique promotional idea here or something that is overly expensive to accomplish all they have to do is advertise both title contenders instead of only pushing one of them.
Their marketing team is there to put asses in seats. If pushing 2 irrelevant yet big-name fighters does the job, then it was the correct decision to make.
What’s a better scenario, being NOT on the poster but the show gets 500,000 views or being on the poster and the show only gets 250,000.
Strikeforce isn’t made of money and they’re doing what they need to do to survive. When their built-in fanbase increases, they will be able to afford risking viewership in order to make it “fair” for their lesser-knowns.
Their marketing team is there to put asses in seats long term, not just event to event. As far as your “better scenario” what does that have to do with anything? Have they done the market research to show that what they are doing is better than the established methods? Do you really think putting a couple of fighters on a poster without advertisng who they are fighting or what is at stake in the fight gets them better ratings than actually advertising that a title fight is a title fight and that both competitiors are important? Where are you getting the numbers to back up this “scenario” from? Are you honestly trying to say their marketing has been successful?
Strikeforce isn’t made of money so the smartest thing they can do is market their cards right so that your company grows and gets stronger. This isn’t about defending Strikeforce against haters it’s about what marketing works best and what doesn’t.
Strikeforce isn’t made of money so the smartest thing they can do is market their cards right so that your company grows and gets stronger.
Idealism. This is a business and Strikeforce is in survival mode against a large predatory foe in Zuffa who owns 90% of their market.
This isn’t about defending Strikeforce against haters it’s about what marketing works best and what doesn’t.
Marketing NAMES works best. I don’t need to do any market research to know that my casual MMA fans were mostly interested in Bobby Lashley fighting this weekend and not Jacare souza. They’re marketing the celebrity (I use this term loosely when it comes to the SF roster) of a select few fighters who can draw with their built-in fanbase to put asses in seats and stay afloat.
Strikeforce doing right by giving their lesser knowns equal prime-time placement is simply sporting idealism right now and as much as I personally agree with you that it would be WONDERFUL— it’s still not the best idea for them at this time.
"Marketing NAMES works best."
This is not mutually exclusive. You can market a fighter as a big name so you don’t have guys like Lashley taking the spotlight over quality, proven fighters.
Toronto FC - Where road games are forfeited and we STILL have no idea how to play from behind.
Doing effective marketing isn’t idealism it’s a neccessity and lets not act like it’s that much more expensive to put both fighters in a commercial. Expense is a irrelevant excuse when talking about something as basic as this. Marketing is more about creativity as it is about spending the most money.
No one is acting like designing posters are expensive—that’s silly. The “expenses” side of the money aspect isn’t what i’m talking about.
I’m talking about making money through the built-in fanbases of their well-known stars.
If your idea of effective marketing for a company with limited finances is to push a pack of unknowns, you’re simply caaa-razy. Strikeforce is using what limited commodities they have RIGHT NOW to stay afloat. It’s all about money and it’s as simple as that.
I’m not even saying what Strikeforce is doing right now is my favorite thing ever—but I’m telling you from a marketing standpoint, and where SF’s finances/viewership is, it is the most likely the smartest thing to do.
your last paragraph
sums up my feelings about Strikeforce…
Who's the only one here who knows illegal ninja moves from the government?
Who says they have to push a pack of unknowns? I am talking about advertising both fighters in a title fight. I could care less if they advertise Griggs but good grief they didn’t advertise one half of their main event or their co-main event. Don’t tell me they don’t have the money to advertise Feijao vs Mo instead of just advertising King Mo because that doesn’t even make sense. This isn’t a money issue at all, this is an issue of them constructing their advertising to push a single name instead of a fight over and over again. Are you seriously going to say that Tim Kennedy is a big name for them to advertise but Jacaré is an unknown? Come on.
You keep going back to them having to advertise this way to stay afloat financially but haven’t showed any evidence that advertising this way even works or helps the company or that it’s actually cheaper to just ignore one guy in your main event. If it’s not actually significantly cheaper then what is the point of them advertising this way? You know what Strikeforce needs to “stay afloat”? They need good ratings on Showtime, if they don’t get the ratings they don’t keep their contract and they go under, ratings increases are what will save the company not saving a nickle on advertising by ignoring half their main card.
You keep falling back into this “expenses of advertising” thing when it isn’t relevant to anything I’ve said.
You keep going back to them having to advertise this way to stay afloat financially but haven’t showed any evidence that advertising this way even works or helps the company
I could ask you the same thing. Show me the evidence that pushing Jacare Souza and Rafael Cavalcante would give them more viewership and a larger gate.
Are you seriously going to say that Tim Kennedy is a big name for them to advertise but Jacaré is an unknown?
If Tim Kennedy was successful he would be infinitely more marketable than Jacare. White as snow American born war-hero MMA champion. Kicking ass and blasting brown people back to the stone ages. Of course I’m joking about that last part—but seriously, think about the MMA demographic… Tim Kennedy would be a marketers wet dream if he could walk the walk. Seriously I’m not trying to be rude but if you don’t get why Tim K. gets the push from SF, then I can’t help you.
Zuffa has had ample time to build a permanent fanbase and basically what equates to “guaranteed buys”. Strikeforce does NOT have that same luxury at the moment. Like ‘nottheface’ pointed out up top there, Zuffa built that base using pretty much the same marketing platform that SF currently is.
You keep falling back into this "expenses of advertising" thing when it isn’t relevant to anything I’ve said
Are you f***ing serious?
Strikeforce isn’t made of money and they’re doing what they need to do to survive.
It’s all about money and it’s as simple as thatLook if you don’t want to have a serious discussion that’s fine but you are the one that keeps bringing up Strikeforce not having enough money. If it’s not the expenses of advertising what is it they don’t have the money to do? Try and grow the company?
How much bigger a push would Tim Kennedy of got from beating a guy who casual fans also thought was a big deal compared to fighting a guy they had never heard of and knew nothing about? How much better off would they be now if they had pushed Jacare too being as he won the belt? Pushing both guys helps both guys and makes the matches appear to be bigger events. This is marketing 101 stuff here.
Like ‘nottheface’ pointed out up top there, Zuffa built that base using pretty much the same marketing platform that SF currently is.
Yes but he was wrong. Even back in the early days Zuffa was pushing both guys in a main event because they understood that mega-fights between two stars is what actually sells not one name fighting an unknown guy. Heck go back and look at the posters he tried to use as his evidence, all of them have both main event guys on there and it’s advertised as a main event fight not just a big name guy. If Strikeforce was actually using the same marketing platform Zuffa did over the years that built their base then we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Sigh. Honestly dude, be upfront with me—am I being trolled? Are you Ashton Kutcher? I said:
No one is acting like designing posters are expensive—that’s silly. The "expenses" side of the money aspect isn’t what i’m talking about.
Then you said:
Don’t tell me they don’t have the money to advertise Feijao vs Mo instead of just advertising King Mo
In fact, you’ve said something similar in every one one of your responses. I KNOW it’s not more expensive. You know it. Strikeforce knows it. STOP BRINGING IT UP. Please please please you are going to drive me insane.
Where MONEY is concerned is how much BANG they’re getting for their buck. As is generally agreed, SF’s finances are optimistically seen as being “ok” or “in bad shape”. Their relationship with Showtime and CBS is seen as rocky or strained at this point.
And your solution is to potentially lower the #‘s by advertising their prospects in the stead of draws? Here’s where you ask me where my “market research” is. Well I’m sorry to say I have none. But you’ll just have to take my word on it that in the 18-34 demographic, more people know Bobby Lashley, or can identify with Tim Kennedy, than Rafael Cavalcante or Ronaldo Souza.
Stars are created in star-making performances not by advertising. You reel em in with people they know, and hopefully the supporting cast can hit a home run too and turn themselves into a commodity.
If you want to ignore Strikeforces’ current financial and business relationships then I guess your marketing ideas are fine too…
How was I wrong? You wrote that:
The point of the fanpost was about Strikeforce only pushing the guys they assume will win instead of both guys and it’s hard to deny that that is exactly what they do. Strikeforce’s marketing really needs some work.
So I felt the need to point out that the UFC also has a history of occasionally promoting one fighter over another.
You then followed up that the UFC always promotes both fighters in the main event and the title, and my reply was that Strikeforce never promotes their belt to begin with because they probably don’t think they gain any extra eyes when they do. In fact, Strikeforce rarely promotes any fights. What they do in their posters is promote fighters – stars. “Watch this show because this fighter that you know and like is going to be on it”. I would like them to push the fights and their titles more but who are we to say that this method doesn’t get them more bang for their buck. At the very least we can stop pretending that what they are doing is flailing about. We might not agree with the strategy but there is at least a method to their madness.
And the best example of selling one star fighter over all others is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRO4Ua6warY
For Brock’s first fight in the UFC they barely mention Mir and there is no mention of the main event – Sylvia and Big Nog. Is that poor marketing? Is that insulting to the others fighters? Was that them betting on who would win? Or was it a smart way to focus on the fighter that’s going to sell an extra 300,000+ ppvs.
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