WWE and NBC Counter Programming UFC 117 With WrestleMania Special?
by Kid Nate on Aug 2, 2010 10:58 PM EDT
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From an NBC press release:
NBC and World Wrestling Entertainment® will bring the world's biggest pop culture event to network television for a second year when WrestleMania XXVI: The World Television Premiere airs Saturday, August 7 at 9 pm ET / 8 pm CT.The special will feature highlights from WrestleMania XXVI set to music from today's top acts in one lightning-fast hour of family-friendly programming.
...
The highlight of the NBC special will feature what turned out to be one of the greatest matches in WWE history. Undertaker and Shawn Michaels are two of the most prolific superstars in WWE history, for one of them, this match was his last. More than 72,000 fans were on their feet throughout the emotional rollercoaster of athleticism. The two immortals put on a performance that thrilled the audience and in the end, reduced grown men to tears.
I haven't followed pro wrestling since 1984 when Ric Flair was NWA champion and Roddie Piper and Gordon Solie were behind the mic on TBS every Saturday, but I know enough to know that Shawn Michaels vs the Undertaker was a big deal.
Is Vince McMahon pulling a Dana and trying to ding his biggest competitor's PPV numbers a little? UFC 117 is already suffering from being headlined by the weakest headlining champion the UFC has -- Anderson Silva. Perhaps Chael Sonnen's desperate WWE-style antics to sell a fight few think he can win has drawn the ire of Vince.
Keep in mind that a likely plurality of new fans in the post TUF era came from the WWE to the UFC. First it was because TUF followed the WWE on Spike -- and actually gained audience share, an unprecedented feat in cable television history. More recently the amazing success of former WWE champ Brock Lesnar has brought over new hordes of knuckle dragging mouth breathers pro wrestling fans.
Is Vince throwing down the gauntlet and trying to hit Dana where he's weak -- an Anderson Silva headlined event? Here's what the UFC is up against:
It's entirely possible this is just a programming coincidence and it's highly unlikely that NBC is aware it's involved in counter-programming the UFC -- especially when new owners Comcast have just enjoyed a honeymoon weekend with the UFC on Versus 2. But it's no secret that the WWE has lost even more PPV market share to the UFC than boxing has in the last five years. The studies I've seen bandied about by HBO and others, in fact, claim that boxing has lost almost no audience directly to the UFC. The same can't be said for Vince McMahon's floundering product.
UPDATE: That was quick, Cage Side Seats has already debunked this theory:
The Wrestlemania 26 special on NBC this Saturday night is nothing. It's certainly not a bold move to counter-program UFC 117. When the new generation of Saturday Night's Main Event specials flopped, NBC was still contractually obligated to give WWE two specials each year. This hole is filled by Tribute To The Troops and the annual Wrestlemania highlight special. Both shows are considered unimportant filler, with Tribute To The Troops at least being an ostensibly heartwarming program where ratings don't matter. Last year's special aired in early August, just like this year's. The matches are edited to shreds and set to shitty nu-metal. They are NOT giving away the main events for free. You will not see the whole Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker match. Get the DVD for that.
Usually it takes at least a few hours to burst my KidNateConspiracies, sometimes months or years, but this one seems to have been still born. Bix shredded this one so quick it reminds me of Michael Rome's glory days debunking the Natester.
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Now we’re gonna have to hear all about this on Twitter from @knuckledraggingmouthbreather
Life is hard....get a fucking helmet.
by Skoobs on Aug 2, 2010 11:01 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I don’t get it. It says Saturday, August 29th. But saturday is the 28th. And isn’t it UFC 118 on the 28th, not 117?
http://www.instrength.com
sorry
some how got this year’s press release mixed up with last year’s. It was on the 29th last year. on the 7th this year. The press releases are almost word for word the same.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
What’s weird about the whole thing is that Michaels is very much in the doghouse with the WWE right now. It kind of surprises me that they would continue to promote him.
http://www.instrength.com
Because he is a
wrestling god. Even at 45 years old there was not a single guy on the roster who could outwork him. HBK could wrestle a broomstick for an hour and get the broomstick over before he was done. That’s how good he is.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
I know how good he is. But from a business standpoint, promoting a guy that’s no longer with the company is a losing proposition.
http://www.instrength.com
How is he in the doghouse, cause he retired? The dudes a beat up 45 year old, thank Heavens this dude decided to pull out when he did. And besides if it draws more eyes, why would they have a problem promoting a guy that can bring in increased viewership? They still profit off of Stone Cold, Hogan, Hart, and anyone else no matter how long they’ve been out or how bad a relationship they might have with the company.
2010 Summer of Side Boob.
See this article from Cageside Seats
http://www.cagesideseats.com/2010/7/24/1585954/shawn-michaels-is-currently-in-the
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
They’re not throwing Hogan clips on NBC, that’s for sure. And Austin still shows up in the company all the time. HBK is completely done.
http://www.instrength.com
Shawn Michaels, within top3 of the best pro wrasslers of the past 2 decades.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
by vivero on Aug 2, 2010 11:03 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This probably isn’t the place for it, and I’m Canadian so I’m obviously biased, but:
Bret had better psychology, was a better technical wrestler, a better interview for the majority of his career, wasn’t a headcase, didn’t miss shows, and understood the business better. Shawn could sell better and was more athletic. That’s about it.
I realize this is going to open up a huge can of pro-wrestling worms, which is why it might be something best discussed on Cageside.
http://www.instrength.com
Ahhh
From Canada so yeah there is bias. Better technical wrestler? Yeah, I’ll give you that but HBK was so much better on the mic, could get anybody in the world over and was the absolute best in the ring.
Agreed that it’s a Cageside thing but Nate posted some wrestling here so he had to expect some wrestling discussion.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
I absolutely think HBK is top 5 of all time, but I just feel that Bret always delivered and Shawn was way too flighty. And I definitely don’t think Shawn was better on the mic or in the ring. I never cared for much of his mic work before or after DX, and even during DX it was only funny because it was so childish. And other than flopping around for bigger opponents (which he was the absolute best at other than maybe Flair), I never found him to be super crazy exciting.
http://www.instrength.com
Some day, the Montreal Screwjob won’t obscure your vision as much as now. HBK was a vastly superior showman and just made everyone he fought look good.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 3, 2010 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Bret was technically more solid but HBK had a way of making the crowd buy into whatever he was doing in the ring.
For me, he’s in the top five, if not the top 2. Flair spans so many generations so it’s hard to compare the two. I think Jericho is probably the only other guy in the past 20 years that belongs in the conversation.
RIP, Coach Wooden.
Thank you, Geoff Petrie.
by JETisKing on Aug 3, 2010 3:12 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
lest we forget
Benoit.
SWIM, SWIM, HUNGRY
by greasefirelol on Aug 3, 2010 4:20 AM EDT up reply actions
My bad.
Benoit and Eddie definitely are in the conversation as far as ring work goes. I throw Malenko, Misawa and Kobashi in there if we really wanna get down to it.
But as far as showmanship goes and stealing the whole show, Shawn had the heads and the casual fans marking out for him. Eddie was right there but they never pushed him like they should have. Damn, I miss them cats.
RIP, Coach Wooden.
Thank you, Geoff Petrie.
Jericho is left out of the conversation too often.
by worldcupfever on Aug 3, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
For good reason...
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 3, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
For some reason I read on the internet everywhere that Jericho is so great but I don’t see it. He used to be amazing when he was with WCW and early WWE but not now.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
He's fine!
But if the conversation is top 5 workers of the past 20 years? he’s not top 25, let alone top 5
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 3, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm going to have to quit blogging and watching UFC countdowns at the same time
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
There's no way NBC would do this even if it was real
Instead they would counterprogram with “Saturday Night Live: The Best of Fred Armisen”.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
lol woah… that past forty minutes was epic.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
Dear Kid Nate
You’re panicking over nothing.
Is Vince trying to hurt on Dana? Yes
Does Vince know what he’s doing? Nope. He hasn’t a fucking clue on how to hit Zuffa.
In his demented lil mind, he’ll think that beating a prelim showing will be a big fucking deal and he’ll be strutting around like he did something.
The truth is most the people he’s trying to reach with this showing already own the DVD of the event and those who don’t aren’t going to sit and watch a really clipped up match.
Sure, he’ll make numbers, but they’ll just be from kids and families. So he isn’t even hitting the target audience anyway.
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
btw,
Your video is of Wreslemania 26. Not 25.
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
yeah
that matches the press release, just not the image. i couldn’t find any graphics with shawn micheals and the undertaker from 26
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
It’s easy to make that mistake since the WWE only has one decent match. One that happens to star two forty something, brokedown, part timers.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 3, 2010 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah that is kind of a sad commentary
on the state of the promotion. it seemed like they were breaking in some major new talent a few years back. couple guys with great physiques and the initials B.L.
what ever happened to them? surely they didn’t find greener pastures in pro wrestling?
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Most of them are floundering around in the Biz. Sure they’ll get something to do, but it’ll be cut off due to politics or “paying their dues”
The talent they brought in right now is either too green, Have talent, but will get greatly hindered or have the coookie cutter look and style, but won’t sell real well to the people.
I mean….How many douchebags do they really need?
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
you missed my reference
Brock Lesnar
Bobby Lashley
seems like they are still around doing something but it’s not wrestling exactly
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I'm sorry.
My mind hasn’t been working all day today.
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
lashley
was gilding the lilly
the point of the joke was Brock is someone who might have been a star for the WWE instead of the UFC
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Not really.
He got over but the business was failing with him as champion.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
you dont think they'd be better off with him than they are without him?
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
That's a good question.
I wonder where he would even fit in with the product they are pushing right now. Some of the programs they had him in were downright embarrassing. The whole gay Kurt Angle deal, the epic fail of a feud with Goldberg.
I really don’t know. You may have given me a great idea for a post at Cageside.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
Brock? The contract that Vince foolishly gave him might have hamstrung a company that got younger and cut back on big-money contracts. And he might have burned out as a draw, as do most top guys for periods of time. But overall, I think they’d absolutely be better off with him.
http://www.instrength.com
They’d be slightly better off sure, but ultimately they still have decent enough guys on the roster but the problem is in the creative team. Basically they just have a bunch of Vince McMahon yes men, literally they’re told when they get the job to agree with whatever Vince says, and with the lack of fresh ideas and the company heading in a lousy pg direction, they’d missuse Brock just like everybody else and continue to flounder in mediocrity.
2010 Summer of Side Boob.
Come on Snowden.
Taker is broke down beyond the point of return but HBK brings it better than anyone ever. Don’t hate on the man. Even at 45 he is the best.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
Snowdens gonna Snowden
Taker vs. HBK II was not decent. It was a 5-star match filled with very solid technical wrestling, huge stakes, false finishes and high emotions. I couldn’t even think of any Wrestlemania wherein the main event was not the World Heavyweight or WWE Title on the line. Also, you clearly fail to appreciate the other matches in the PPV. Sure thay have produced better Money in the Bank matches, but the spotfest featured that night was still very solid. Another match worth mentioning is the HHH-Sheamus match. Sure HHH won, but he was able to elevate Sheamus to another level (Sheamus is currently the WWE Champion). Not to mention Cena-Batista at WM was better than Cena-Batista at Summerslam.
And oh, HBK was wrestling full time before he retired at WM. He retired to have more time with his wife and kids. We all know that the HBK of old is not the same as the present HBK. But the present HBK can outwork almost anyone on the roster. Tell him to his face that he is a forty-something, brokedown, part timer.
Pro-wrestling and MMA: I have the best of both worlds.
Snowden was right about him being a part-timer, he had been for years. He worked TV and PPVs, but almost never worked house shows and was not on the road full-time.
http://www.instrength.com
But
being on TV and PPV all year-round is enough for fans to consider a wrestler a full timer. However, I get your point.
Pro-wrestling and MMA: I have the best of both worlds.
Except that
Randy Orton wasn’t WWE Champion back then. Batista was.
Pro-wrestling and MMA: I have the best of both worlds.
Best Wrestlemania match is Hollywood Hogan vs. The Rock, a match in which the heel was the hero in the minds of the fans.
'Ello G'vnor!
Best match in terms of nostalgia? Maybe.
in terms of actual in ring action, not so much. Honestly, it was 2002 and Hogan was still “Hulking up” like it wasn’t emberassing enough to be watching this stuff at the time.
2010 Summer of Side Boob.
Completely agree
It was the “best match” due to nostalgia and name value, but technical wrestling? Not so much. It was the most intriguing match because of the fact that no one ever thought that Hogan and The Rock, two of the most popular figures of Pro-wrestling was gonna go toe-to-toe, let alone at Wrestlemania. The electricity and crowd participation were going bananas the whole match. But let’s not go too far in saying that was the best match in WM history. The technical match itself was probably above average at best.
Pro-wrestling and MMA: I have the best of both worlds.
Heh. I'll still take Savage vs Steamboat at WM 3.
Technically sound, great finish and the promotional buildup was amazing.
The funny thing is that in the Rock vs Hogan match, the whole crowd turned on Hogan as soon as Rock hit the peoples elbow. The pop as he was throwing his armband into the crowd was deafening. Gotta love Canada.
RIP, Coach Wooden.
Thank you, Geoff Petrie.
Best WM match.
Taker vs Shawn I. For fucking nostalgia, Hogan vs Warrior.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
But I won’t pick against Jon Jones again until I see him lose. - Kwisatz Haderach
Lesnar vs. Angle was epic. Did anybody see the botched shooting star press from Lesnar?
Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)
I was 10 rows back
We all thought it was a career-ender. It kind of was, but for different reasons other than the direct injury.
But this was my thought going into Lesnar vs. Carwin: “Brock fell on his freekin neck and still got up to finish the match. What is Carwin going to do that is going to top that?”
Never thought of it that way. Come to think of it, that’s pretty much what Brock did in the Lesnar fight. Maybe I should write a fanpost.
Even then the match was crazy, and to date is my single favourite wrestling match.
Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)
Shitty nu-metal you say?
It’s time to end this suffering.
by Polyhedron on Aug 3, 2010 12:37 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I think this topic has been discussed many times. There have been many reports that show the mma/wwe crossover isn’t that significant.
Only in Vince's mind.
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
I love to see these reports.
The crossover audience for WWE and MMA is huge. In fact it’s what saved the UFC. So by all means show me these reports you speak of.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
yeah I'd like to see these reports
because the evidence of Brock Lesnar’s draw is indisputable as is the fact that the WWE was the lead in to TUF in the first season. These TUF n00bs came from somewhere.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
UFC 117 is already suffering from being headlined by the weakest headlining champion the UFC has — Anderson Silva
If thiss card does 650,000 buys, does this talk go away?
Yes.
If Silva can pull that on his own then yes it will. I’m bettting this card does 450,000 buys.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
The Undertaker finished with a tombstone piledriver...
Didn’t they ban piledrivers for fear of neck injuries?
Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)
Interesting. Is that a responsibility/experience/size of event call?
Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)
I will be glad when the word “counter-programming” fades away.
This isn’t 1977 and people aren’t making decisions on which ones to watch. I think the crossover is overstated in this instance and even if it isn’t, people have VCR’s, DVR’s and the internet on which to watch programs that air at the same time.
I know there may be a few that think this is witchcraft or that it somehow steals their souls, but let’s stop making some big deal out of “counter-programming”.
Really?
I don’t believe that for a second. Casual viewers (which is the majority of MMA’s fanbase) are attracted to names they know. They see the UFC, they stop and watch that. That’s why they counter Strikeforce at every turn. The WWE is a viable brand with a bigger fanbase and better TV ratings than the UFC. They trying to counterprogram, although not the case here, would clearly make sense.
You’re thinking about it based on your viewing habits, but the large majority of people don’t work that way. Not even half the viewing audience in the US have a DVR, and watching stuff on the internet draws an even smaller percentage.
http://www.instrength.com
You can’t base that off of half don’t have dvr’s. How many of those have another room with a vcr attached? how many of those are 80 years old and watching Matlock instead of WWE or MMA? The point I am driving at is, I would wager about anything that a very high percentage of the viewers that would otherwise have to choose, DO have a way to watch both.
Yes I am basing it off my viewing habits, because I am the typical target for either promotion. If it was targeted at every living room in the US, your point would be very valid.
Again, this is exactly why I think the whole notion of counter-programming is overstated. Does it have some effect? Sure. But my opinion is that it is a very minimal one.
And you are counter programming a live PPV event with a hour long recap special? That just doesn’t cut it for me.
CBS is countering them both with a CSI rerun.
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