UFC Bound? Why Tim Sylvia Belongs Inside the Octagon as He Closes His Career
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 16, 2010 10:25 AM EDT
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Saturday night Tim Sylvia fought a recent UFC refugee. A man who gave rising star Stefan Struve all that he could handle. A man who pushed UFC mainstay Cheick Kongo more than ten minutes, surviving an illegal blow and a damaged hand. A man who once challenged for heavyweight gold. And Tim Sylvia demolished him.
It's easy to hate Tim Sylvia. It seems to those who don't know him well that he combines the personality of a douchey commodities trader with the physical appearance of a slightly backwards game warden. It's easy not to care about Sylvia's career. After all, by coming into fights well north of 300 pounds and making no effort to play the media game, it hardly seemed like Sylvia himself cared.
But talking to him last week, I felt like "Big" Tim was turning a page. He was making an effort to answer my questions. He had gotten his weight down to 274 pounds. And he showed he was still a player in this game by making Buentello look silly.
Tim Sylvia is a UFC level fighter. Right now, he's a top 10 heavyweight. He can test the younger fighters rising up the ranks and might even give a handful of the elite a scary moment or two. While he's still relevent, while he can still compete with the best, Sylvia should be fighting for Zuffa. Joe Silva and Monte Cox: make it happen.
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greatest sentence ever written?
It seems to those who don’t know him well that he combines the personality of a douchey commodities trader with the physical appearance of a slightly backwards game warden.
█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z
by thetakeover on Aug 16, 2010 10:03 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
I was so happy with this, I won’t lie.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 16, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
but I was not impressed with your performance
how can you say he is a top 10 heavyweight when he comes in and weighs in 275 pounds? And 300 pounds for his fight against Mercer. The guy has not made heavyweight limit for a few fights. Sylvia is boring and I really hope Dana keeps this mess out of the UFC.
by SheepleBuster on Aug 16, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
yea, I kinda would think ranking at a weight would require someone to have fought in that weight class at some point in the last year or two. (Even if he did, I don’t think I’d put him in the top ten though)
by JeremyShane on Aug 16, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
since when beating Buentello puts you in top 10
if that is the case, then Kongo is top 2, right? I mean he was way more impressive in beating P.B than Sylvia who weighed 300 pounds that night (according to reports). This was not even a fair fight if you think about it. And Paul is over the hill.
by SheepleBuster on Aug 16, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
joke....
Sylvia is done. He was only good when he was on roids and much lighter. If he took things much more seriously and changed his diet, training, and life…. he could be ok again. But to say he is a top 10 is ridiculous. I was there in Worcester and at his after party where i met him. I was not impressed. I give him all the credit in the world when he was younger…. but not anymore. I mean he was the worst draw for a Heavyweight champion in the UFC I think right? I think I remember them saying that….
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it won't matter anyway
JDS, Carwin, Brock, Cain, and even Roy Nelson would smoke him. Heck, I am not sure he can take Gonzaga or Duffee. Maybe dana should sign him just in case Toney loses his fight against Couture. That should get Toney an easy win.
by SheepleBuster on Aug 16, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Big Country might have some problems with Sylvia just because of that ridiculous reach advantage that he’ll have. Sure Roy beat Brad Imes who is a big guy to but Sylvia is a little bit better than Imes. I say if he fights 2 more times and makes 265 in those 2 fights and wins them then signing him for the UFC wouldn’t be bad. He still has the skills to be a good gatekeeper. SF should sign him for sure, he would be a solid addition to a weak division or Dream for the Super HW
The top HW’s in the UFC would wreck Sylvia. I’d rather see him in Strikeforce. Sylvia vs. Lashley, or Rogers or someone. He doesnt belong with the top guys anymore, I can only see him as a “big name” stepping stone for another fighter like: Lashley.
by Brennan Linn on Aug 16, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Stepping stone for Lashley??
That’s funny, Lashey’s people turned down Tim as an opponent. Wanna know why?? Because Tim would beat the ever living shit out of Booby. As far as the top UFC guys beating Tim, yeah probably so, those four would smash anyone else in the UFC HW division.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Aug 16, 2010 11:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
This
Tim would stomp a hole in Bobby if they fought.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Aug 16, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
nah.
Lashley will take him down at will. Just ask Cain Velasquez. Yes. Lashley can’t take Cain down. But he takes everyone else down it seems. Sylvia on his back is like a fish out of water :)
by SheepleBuster on Aug 16, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
agreed
I think people forget who Lashley trains with….
by Brennan Linn on Aug 16, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually think TIM would KO Bobby but lets say Lashley puts him on his back I could see BIG Tim catching Lashley in a Sub eather a Trinagle or Arm bar ?
I think Jeff Monson thought the same thing would happen after he got Timmy on his back and look what happend , And if BIG Tim almost triangled and armbarred Jeff Monson and got reversals on a two time ADCC champion I think he could not only do the same but lock the sub up against Lashley.
Kongo took Velasquez down, but Lashley can’t?
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 16, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
What?
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
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by The Darkness on Aug 16, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I couldn’t find a gif, but here’s “play by play” from UFC 99
Round 3: Kongo is going to need a knockout to win this fight. Kongo landed a good punch, but Cain got inside, and that’s where Kongo doesn’t want to be. Now Kongo takes Velasquez down.
http://www.lowkick.com/UFC/Result-UFC-99-Cain-Velasquez-vs-Cheick-Kongo
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 16, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya Lashley would have no chance against Sylvia, once again the reach advantage comes into play, add in the fact Lashley’s striking arsenal consists of constant looping overhands and Sylvia’s solid TDD it equals disaster for Lashely but Lashley would never take that fight anyways
Lashley would do better than you think.
by Brennan Linn on Aug 16, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
What are you basing this on?
His dismantling of the dangerous Wes Sims or his surviving the force that is Jason Guida?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Aug 16, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Aside from the Guida fight Lashley has won every fight impressive and dominantly. His take downs are ridiculous, his striking isn’t bad, he can submit you, and he trains with a GREAT team.
The Buentello vs. Sylvia fight was a joke, half of the fight they hugged in the corner. It looked like two old men in the ring. Not to mention Sylvia is like 6’9 and Paul is not that tall, sylvia was twenty pounds bigger and had a monsterous reach advantage.
Regardless, I never said Lashley would beat him. I said he would be a good stepping stone fight for Lashley. If he lost to Sylvia we would know he isn’t worth any hype. That’s all, and if he did lose to Sylvia, I think he would do better than you think. Sylvia wouldn’t come out and knock Lashley out, so it would be a long fight if Sylvia ended up winning.
by Brennan Linn on Aug 16, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
You don't think he'd beat him but you call him a stepping stone?
Also, Lashley is terrible.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 16, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m saying I don’t think Sylvia is that good anymore, and he would be a good fight for Lashley to prove himself as a legit fighter.
by Brennan Linn on Aug 16, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
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by Matthew Roth on Aug 16, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Sylvia didn't really use roids to be stronger, did he?
I thought he used them so he could look more ripped in the ab department. He’s still a monter of a man, with a lot of experience, so I think he’d be well served by joining the UFC again, or even Strikeforce, where he can get more exposure for his comeback.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
George Carlin
Barnett used steroids to get rid of his bitch tits
Still not ok. Tim did, however, come back and pass every test since, so at least he’s learned his lesson.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Aug 16, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
According to TIM he only used them becasue he wanted to have a six pack and look and buff. But who knows most in mma don’t use roids for strength anyways they use roids to help with there endurance. cardio and recovery time.
I hear it's also good for preventing Lactic Acidosis.
(I don’t care what anyone says: that’s still funny.)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
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Well the only problem is it should that it didn’t help prevent it at all, in fact(according to Chael) Carwin caused his Lactic Acidosis by taking steroids, Nice try at the joke but maybe next time
I think you got the joke backwards.
Would it help if I wrote the word “sarcasm” next to it?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Just because you don't get it...
…and said a bunch of nonsense, doesn’t make it a bad joke.
Just keep trying – you’ll get better at this Internet thing. :-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
You’re right thatdoesn’t make it a bad joke, the fact that it isn’t funny however does make it a bad joke. Maybe next time =)
It's hard to accept you as an authority...
…when you got the point of the joke entirely backwards. :-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Agreed
He should be in the UFC.
He should be fighting Shane Carwin. It would be an excellent measuring stick for both fighters.
"If the commission would sanction it and Dana would move, I’d fighter Anderson right now."
- Chael Sonnen at the post fight press conference following his loss to Anderson Silva.
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by Worldisart on Aug 16, 2010 10:04 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think Sylvia would definitely make a fight of it
He’s the more polished striker and his reach and height would definitely make it difficult for Shane to get inside and bomb him.
Shane’s best strategy would be to attempt the take down I think.
"If the commission would sanction it and Dana would move, I’d fighter Anderson right now."
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Except.
Ray Mercer & Fedor (the striking dynamo) both exposed big Tim and made his jaw seem weaker than fine china. :P
Lest we not forget, 4-4 in his last 8 fights.
Losses : Randy, Fedor, Mercer & Big Nog
Wins: Vera, Marisuz, Jason Riley & Buentello
Hardly ZUFFA worthy I’d say.
If he’s ready and set to go, how come Strikeforce won’t touch him with a ten foot pole?
Play Hard, Train Harder
Both Ray Mercer and Fedor
Are far more accomplished with their hands than Shane Carwin. I didn’t say that Shane wouldn’t win but he lacks the speed of a Fedor or the hand of Mercer to do what those two guys did.
BJ Penn is 5-5 in his last ten fights, maybe he’s not Zuffa worthy?
As for Strikeforce, I can almost guarantee you it’s about money, because they desperately need HWs.
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by Worldisart on Aug 16, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
He's 6-4 and already in teh UFC
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
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by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 16, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm just sayin.....
Carwin has much more power in his hands than probably both those guys. I would classify Mercer as having the ability to direct his power moreso. Tim also wouldn’t enjoy the size advantage he’s had in the past. He’d be coming up against a fair number of HWs that are either close to the cap or cutting to make 265 like him.
I can understand what you’re saying about Strikeforce and the money but I would concur that the same problem would be faced with the UFC. Sylvia obviously thinks he’s worth more than he is, hence his inability to latch onto a bigger promotion. He can’t even get a “freak show” fight in DREAM vs someone like Bob Sapp. :P
As far as the staying relevant in Zuffa. Tim had his shot and ran for greener pastures. Current HWs & guys like BJ all have one thing different, they’re all still in the UFC. Tim & Monte Cox ran as soon as Affliction called them up.
He’s reaping what he’s sowed for so man years.
Play Hard, Train Harder
As well
Tim Sylvia isn’t a Zuffa caliber HW but fighters like Joey Beltran, Mike Russow and Matt Mitrione are?
"If the commission would sanction it and Dana would move, I’d fighter Anderson right now."
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by Worldisart on Aug 16, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Russow has one loss and a chin made of concrete, Mitrione is nothing if not interesting and Beltran… beat the guy he was brought in to lose to.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Aug 16, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not trying to rip on those fighters
My point was that if those guys are Zuffa quality fighters, then Tim Sylvia is certainly a Zuffa quality fighter.
"If the commission would sanction it and Dana would move, I’d fighter Anderson right now."
- Chael Sonnen at the post fight press conference following his loss to Anderson Silva.
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There's a big difference
Between a guy who’s career is on the rise, and a guy who’s career is in a huge decline.
Keep in mind the amount of money Tim Sylvia likely thinks he deserves to be paid. He’s not going to come in here on a cheap contract.
Zuffa-calibre or not, it's because of *drum roll* money
Theguys you listed just make so much less than what Sylvia would be expecting to make. They’re more likely in the $10k/$10k than Sylvia’s $40k/$40k (being conservative here). I even doubt Zuffa would want to pay Sylvia that much.
Tim Sylvia can demand a much larger paycheque fighting in these smaller shows than he can with Zuffa. He doesn’t have much leverage at the bargaining table with Dana White sitting across from him but, for smaller shows, his leverage is greatly increased when marketed as a former UFC heavyweight champion.
by KenCanFightBear on Aug 16, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I know it's about money
I was responding to someone who said Tim Sylvia isn’t a Zuffa caliber heavyweight. Which is silly and wrong. Of course there are other factors as to why he’s not plying his trade in the UFC, money probably being the biggest of those said factors.
"If the commission would sanction it and Dana would move, I’d fighter Anderson right now."
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Mercer and Fedor both hit really fucking hard. I don’t think that “exposes” his chin.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 16, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
^ Truth
On another note though, with the loss to Mercer, I don’t think Zuffa would be too keen on bringing in someone who lost to a former pro boxer with this whole MMA vs Boxing thing going on later this month. It just brings all credibility to a grinding halt with regards to their marketing promos.
by KenCanFightBear on Aug 16, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
If they did...
…the UFC marketing machine would go into overdrive on how stupid that whole situation is where it was a pure boxing match that got changed at the last minute..etc.
And then sell it as a redemption story where the guy hit his lowest low and turned it around.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 16, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
He'd be a great follow up match for James Toney after the Randy fight
Assuming (just work with me here) that Toney doesn’t completely embarrass himself vs. Randy, Tim would be a great match. Tim would stand and bang with Toney in a way no one else would, and the results could be KOTN material.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
George Carlin
If that happened, the result would be similar to how Mercer beat Sylvia
Couture is a wrestler, Sylvia is more akin to a sprawl ‘n brawler. With no threat of a takedown from either fighter, it’s safe to say that Sylvia would be put to sleep.
Regarding your last sentence, I 100% agree with KOTN material with Sylvia falling down the same way he did when Mercer knocked him out; California redwood style.
by KenCanFightBear on Aug 16, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re ignoring the fact that Mercer hits hard as hell and Toney doesn’t.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
Because the understanding is that boxers all hit a lot harder than anyone in the world!
Boxing fans have been telling everyone that nobody can be in the ring with a real boxer because they all hit so hard. And I guess some people believe it.
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Technique does add to power but I think the more intelligent boxing fans who say an MMA fighter couldn’t be in the ring with a boxer (referring to a boxing match) are saying it based on technique more than some magical one punch KO power. For the same reason that MMA fans say the reverse about boxers in an MMA fight.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 16, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you're talking about the average intelligent fan.
This is a far cry from the average fan of either sport.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
I believe
Carwin hits just as fucking hard. If you can’t take a shot from an elite HW, then your chin is exposed.
Anyone pushing 225+ is going to come with a whole lot of power behind any shot. If you can’t take it, you’re not going to last long.
Play Hard, Train Harder
Carwin absolutely hits fucking hard. But they both hit so fucking hard that no one is going to eat clean punches from them and be fine. There’s a difference between getting KO’ed by a bomb and having a bad chin.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 16, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
"UFC Caliber" / "Zuffa Worthy"
Of all the silly things people, including MMA bloggers and journalists, occasionally say regarding the UFC (and now Zuffa), this is one of the silliest. You realize, because one fighter loses and one wins each fight (with the very rare draw here and there), that, in the aggregate, the average winning percentage of everyone who has ever fought in the UFC is only .500. People seem to use the term “UFC Caliber” as a stand in for either “presently one of the two or three top prospects in MMA” or “presently one of the top five fighters in a given division”, which I’m going to perhaps unfairly assume is how you’re using it. By that definition, 95% of the fighers in the UFC (or WEC, as the case may be) are not “UFC Caliber” or “Zuffa Worthy.” This is to say: The use of the term is at best silly, at worst misleading and ridiculous. Please stop using it.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
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by The Darkness on Aug 16, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
good job 'The Darkness'
very well said…couldn’t agree more…
"45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly"
Your math doesn't work.
Would Chuck Liddell have the same record fighting in an organization like Strikeforce that he had in the UFC? No, because he wouldn’t have lost nearly as many fights. It’s not just how many times you win or lose, it’s who you lose to.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
The only math there is a clear corollary of the way wins and losses are assigned. I assume you’re making some point different from that but I really have no idea what point you think you’re responding to or you’re making. You might not care, but then why bother to post a reply in the first place?
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Aug 16, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm responding to:
“the average winning percentage of everyone who has ever fought in the UFC is only .500. "
Which is like comparing the batting averages of high school and pro players.
Have you ever heard that most baseball players bat below average? It’s true.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
I still don’t get your point. My point is that if you hold that someone needs to >50% winning % in the UFC (only taking into account that fighter’s UFC fights) to be a UFC “caliber fighter” over half of the fighters who’ve fought in the UFC were not UFC “caliber fighters”, which is nonsensical. I’m not comparing anything. I’m making a point about semantics. Perhaps the bolded text (an unstated assumption) was a little too tacit.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
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by The Darkness on Aug 16, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
What's the hook: Two guys with a steroid connection?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
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I prefer using the hook "Two World Class Heavyweights"
But then again we can’t all be as incessantly and consistently negative as you jemaleddin.
"If the commission would sanction it and Dana would move, I’d fighter Anderson right now."
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by Worldisart on Aug 16, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Negative? Me?
Bah. I’m hard on cheaters and liars, but only because so many people here are willing to give them a pass. I say all kinds of great things about fighters – I never miss a flimsy excuse to post a WAR ROXY, I find ways to build up underdogs, and I spend all of my free time alternating between hanging off GSP and BJ’s nuts.
If you feel like supporting guys that care so little about fairness that they’re willing to cheat, that’s on you.
(And it seems that the phrase “World Class Heavyweight” has been stretched since the last time I saw it used.)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Come down off your soapbox
People are human and make mistakes, just like you. It’s not like a fighter like GSP (it should be noted that you will never meet a bigger GSP fan than me) hasn’t been subjected to a fair amount of scrutiny about his personal practices and whether or not he plays by the rules.
I’m simply pointing out an observation that has been made before that you very rarely post anything that isn’t scathingly negative on BE.
"If the commission would sanction it and Dana would move, I’d fighter Anderson right now."
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Pet peeve time!
“people make mistakes” should be reserved for situations where someone…makes a mistake. Not situations where someone willingly takes part in a behavior or activity with full knowledge of what they are doing.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 16, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Error in judgement?
Does that work better? My point is, we all do the wrong thing sometimes and that often tends to come back and bite the high and mighty in the ass.
Re: Shane Carwin.
"If the commission would sanction it and Dana would move, I’d fighter Anderson right now."
- Chael Sonnen at the post fight press conference following his loss to Anderson Silva.
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The difference between a mistake and an error in judgement is that those are usually a single event.
What steroid users do is:
- Decide to cheat
- Talk to a bunch of people about the best way to cheat
- Make a plan for how to most effectively cheat
- Contact somebody that can get them the materials to cheat
- Pay that person for illegal chemicals
- Inject those chemicals into their body
- Monitor their use of those chemicals
- Taper off the illegal chemicals
- Possibly take masking agents to hide their cheating
Kneeing a grounded opponent in the head? Getting a little grease on you while your corner is supposed to be rubbing you down? One too many kicks that connect with the groin? Meh. Those are mistakes. This is a planned, intentional course of action that takes month to accomplish. Let’s not minimize that.
And as for me being negative: I always tell my son that the only thing that I hate is injustice. Letting a cheater get away with taking somebody else’s victory is unjust. If you think it’s a good idea to be positive and upbeat about injustice, that’s on you.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
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by jemaleddin on Aug 16, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Two douchebags with boring-as-fuck personalities?
No but seriously, I have nothing against Tim Sylvia. He gets far too much hate, and it sucks because he’s obviously very sensitive about it.
...like young thieves in a glowing orchard, loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing.
- C. McCarthy
and I feel bad for calling him a douchebag now. That was a cheap joke, he’s actually a nice guy from what I’ve heard.
...like young thieves in a glowing orchard, loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing.
- C. McCarthy
Oh, sure, a nice guy.
But kind of a tool. Wearing your belt in the sack with a girl? That’s some Jersey Shore level shit right there.
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I don't think it's that bad...
…can you imagine how much sex the Stanley Cup has been party to?
How about Michael Irvin’s Hall of Fame jacket story?
It’s probably more common than you think…
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
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Does a larger number of douches doing something make it less douchey?
:-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
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Nascar answers your question
we each must become like fishermen, and go out on to the dark ocean of mind, and let your nets down into that sea
by Barack Lesnar on Aug 16, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Hell yeah brother #3 forever! Fuck you Jeff Gordon Daje Jr is gonna take your jub! See how easy it is to be a nascar fan?
we each must become like fishermen, and go out on to the dark ocean of mind, and let your nets down into that sea
by Barack Lesnar on Aug 16, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a higher standard of athletics than some...
…and while I don’t question the skill, timing, and reflexes of the fine drivers of NASCAR, I’m not sure it meets my standards for “a sport” let alone “a great sport.”
Others may disagree.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
I would be one that disagrees. I believe it is a sport and very entertaining to watch.
I understand NASCAR doesn’t appeal to everyone. I have friends that don’t like NASCAR and say things like “All they do is drive around in circles.” True they are driving around in circles on most tracks but if you watch NASCAR you realize there is so much more going on. I compare it to new MMA fans who complain about fights going to the ground and the fighters just laying on each other. Once again true they may be laying on each other but there is so much more going on.
Just BE.
Well, there's a lot going on at NASA as well, but I don't call that a sport either.
:-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
I would be one that disagrees. I believe it is a sport and very entertaining to watch.
I understand NASCAR doesn’t appeal to everyone. I have friends that don’t like NASCAR and say things like “All they do is drive around in circles.” True they are driving around in circles on most tracks but if you watch NASCAR you realize there is so much more going on. I compare it to new MMA fans who complain about fights going to the ground and the fighters just laying on each other. Once again true they may be laying on each other but there is so much more going on.
Just BE.
I'd buy that for a Dollar
Neat fight! Given the top game he showed against Brock, I think Timmah might be able to get up even after the takedown with his skills and experience.
"You got to be a man to grow a moustache. Anybody can pay a couple of hundred bucks to get a tattoo. That don't mean nothing. I've had my moustache since I was two months old." ~ Don Frye
Tim Sylvia got rocked badly by an aged Randy Couture. Shane Carwin might decapitate Big Tim.
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by Brian Mayes on Aug 16, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Snowden
Who are your top ten heavyweights? I’m not sure I could see him in the top ten.
You are right though – the embarassing losses to Fedor/Mercer seem like a long time ago and one has to think the UFC or Strikeforce should pick him up at this point. HW is not exactly a super deep division.
On the other hand, maybe more emphasis should be put on rising stars, like that guy who demolished McSweeney, rather than guys who have had their shot.
I stopped doing rankings because it was too hard. All that logic and such and such. So, it’s likely Tim isn’t top 10 on any logic based list. It’s just my feeling that there aren’t 10 guys who are beating him right now.
I agree with you that young stars are a good thing and should be emphasized. That’s why you need a guy like Tim Sylvia-to test these guys and see which ones are worth the effort to promote hard.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 16, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough
Thanks for the response. I sometimes worry that young guys don’t get fast tracked enough in MMA – it is so hard to get win streaks together, I think guys like Hendricks and Hathaway (for instance) should be in line to get their shots sooner. But I see Travis Browne (the guy I was thinking of) is fighting Kongo, whch is a great fight for him. Sylvia would be a good fight too.
agreed
right now zuffa really only has gonzaga and kongo as quality heavyweights who can test young stars i feel like theres really no reason not to bring sylvia back
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hes out till sometime next year with an injury
plus ive never really been huge on him
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
His skills and accomplishments
are on par with Gonzaga and Kongo.
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I think a fight with Kongo makes sense
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton
by donkeypunch on Aug 16, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
tim sylvia vs todd duffee
tim sylvia vs brandan schaub
tim sylvia vs stefan struve
tim sylvia vs matt mitrione
fuck yea timmy should come back id pay for all those fights
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
by milk72 on Aug 16, 2010 10:06 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
That would be 3-1, maybe 4-0 for Tim. Glad to see some of the hate dying down. Bring Him back.
Life is hard....get a fucking helmet.
i'd say big timmy goes 2-2 there
schaub and duffee i think take him and he beats struve and mitrione
they’re all compelling matchups though
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
I would agree 100% if the last fight was at 265.
In my mind, the Fedor fight didn’t kill Sylvia, it was the Mercer fight, and the weight at the Riley fight.
I would 100% support his return after beating a competent opponent at 265, or even losing to a very good opponent.
he was like 275
if he had to cut he easily could of
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
I don’t care, i want to see it. Alves said he was in the middle of the easiest cut of his life last week.
thats true and i wish they had pushed the weight limit more
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
that is especially true because of the cards he’s been fighting on. He’s been one of the big draws, if he wanted the weight limit to be 265 for buentello, who weighed 250, it would have been. he could have beat pudz at 265. He is the one deciding not to be 265 for these fights. A little initiative never hurt.
I agree he needs a fight at 265 first. Hell by not being in shape and ready to take a fight at 265 on short notice he is hurting his chances of getting in the UFC. Injuries happen and people get chances because of those injuries.
For example if that fight Big Tim just won would have been at 265 and the UFC was having a problem filling the spot of Big Nog against Mir I personally wouldn’t have had a problem with them calling up an in shape ready to go at 265 Tim Sylvia to fill in. As things stand though Tim isn’t allowing options like that for himself because he isn’t staying in shape to fight at 265.
Just BE.
For me it’s not Sylvia’s personality or his looks that I find off-putting, but his awkward, gangly style in the ring. He’s like a giant Keith Jardine. Yuck.
I wouldn’t object to him getting another UFC fight, because I think he could readily compete with the middle tier of the HW division, but I won’t be clamoring for it.
Also, I don’t think he has anything for the elite of the division. Somebody upthread mentioned Carwin, who I think would murderize Timmy. Ditto Brock, Cain and JDS.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
Rematch with Fedro?
{Shudder}
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by s.r.genovese on Aug 16, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought this was about getting him to the promotion that all top ten fighters should be in.
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by Derek Suboticki on Aug 16, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
tim sylvia in top ten is laughable. while buentello is a solid win, he is far from a worl beater and just washed out of the ufc after getting destroyed by kongo and beaten by a slightly overhyped struve. plus his last fight he looked like crap against a bodybuilder w 1 mma fight. i think sylvia gets crushed by cain, lesnar, mir, carwin, big nog, overeem, fedor, bigfoot silva and so on. an in shape sylvia from 3 years ago is a dangerous fight…right now i am not convinced he is back at that level yet.
And he showed he was still a player in this game by making Buentello look silly.
Uh, it’s Paul Buentello.
@fjbar on twitter...formerly El Mexicutioner
People who have KO’ed Paul Buentello:
Todd Broadway (in an early fight via dr. stoppage)
Andrei Arlovski (at a period where he was champion and at the top of his game)
….and Tim Sylvia
I’ll even include Alistair Overeem and Cheick Kongo (two hard fucking hitters) on the list since it was strikes that he submitted to. But even then…that’s hardly like the guy gets ran through by everyone he faces.
I don’t think the point Jon was trying to make was OMG! HE BEAT BUENTELLO! It was more the way that he did it.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 16, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Doesn't matter.
Buentello’s chin is ranked top 10. Dude has a hard fucking head. The KO was very, very impressive.
Completely agree
I think Tim got a lot of the hate that Brock did when he first came over – “oh, he sucks, he’s just good because he’s big.” Bullshit. There are all kinds of big, shitty fighters, and Timmay isn’t one of him.
Bring him back and put him against Morecraft just for the hell of it.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Aug 16, 2010 10:34 AM EDT reply actions
His doughy looking physique has to play the biggest part (not quite round enough to make it a Big Country esque gimmick), that and his somewhat douchey demeanor. Plus there’s the string of dull wins followed by the string of increasingly humiliating losses. Dude gets in at least slightly better shape and starts beating legit competetion and he can rebound eventually, Dana said around the time Tim got beat by Mercer that there was no way Sylvia would be back in the UFC but maybe if Tim can get enough momentum going for himself he could break Dana’s stance and maybe make up for any hard feelings still left over from him leaving.
"I like hardcore crack, that's why my teeth are so bad" -wad of meat
i watched it...
tim fought well – i’d like to see him fight a little higher caliber opponent – i like buentello, but i think he peaked a while back. soft looking physique aside, tim fought pretty well.
"45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly"
I’ve never really despised Sylvia as much as some people on here. Sure, four of his UFC fights were excruciatingly awful….but that’s only one more than internet darling Anderson Silva. So I can certainly think of things that are far more offensive to me as a fan then seeing Tim Sylvia back in the UFC.
That said, I don’t think this would happen. I just have a feeling that Sylvia would price himself out of negotations with the UFC. If he’s to be brought back as a gatekeeper, as Snowden suggests, then he should be paid like one. I don’t think Sylvia’s ego would accept that. He’s much more likely to go to Strikeforce, a company that’s more more keen to overpay for talent.
And yet Phil Baroni has some left?
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by Derek Suboticki on Aug 16, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m guessing Baroni was signed for alot cheaper than Sylvia would be. But who knows.
by joshyboy708 on Aug 16, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Baroni also can’t draw flies to shit these days. Tim’s still got some value left against a decent opponent (the Morecraft idea was a joke because they’re both 6’8)
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by Derek Suboticki on Aug 16, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
About 7 people liked Tim Sylvia when he was in the UFC. I kinda doubt that number has gone up. He’s not exactly an enduring figure.
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by Brian Mayes on Aug 16, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's the thing
There are people (like me) that will gravitate towards anyone that is hated on severely for no real reason other than he beat someone they liked, or they don’t like his style, or they think he’s a fatty.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Aug 16, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I never hated on the guy, I just don’t believe his skills are up to par to keep up with a stacked HW division, especially the upper echelon.
by MrTechnique420 on Aug 16, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
He's a giant sprawl and brawl guy, no?
His skill set and experience are way underrated IMO.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
George Carlin
Not neccesarily
it’s not like Tim is competely irrelevant, but the guys been around since 01. He’s tasted the gold before and been down the war-path, aswell as having a good amount of experience under his belt. Hes coming up on 35 and it’s starting to get a bit more difficult to cut all of that weight, not that it’s impossible, but very unlikely imo.
With that said, the man is a warrior and always will be & as a fan, I would love to see big Tim back in the UFC, & from a realistical standpoint, I don’t want to see his career to end up like Pulvers.
by MrTechnique420 on Aug 16, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Some people pay to see a fighter win, some to lose. You can be a draw even if people don’t like you.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Aug 16, 2010 11:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nice article Jonathan.
I think people would suprised how well Tim could hang with the guys in the UFC. Obviously Brock, Carwin, JDS, and Cain would be quite a handful for him, but outside of that I wouldn’t count Tim out of many other fights. I think he could beat Nog, Mir, Cro Cop, Struve, Rothwell, and etc. He has been working on his bjj a lot and is now actually training with guys his size before fights. When he was training before fights at Miletich he was really only sparring with Sherman “the tank”, Drew McFrederies, Alex Rozman, and a few other guys that werent even close to his size. I feel he showed a full stand up aresenal against Paul. We saw punches, kicks, knees, clinch work, and a nice KO for the cherry on top. As far as you guys bitching about his weigt still, Tim has never to my knowledge missed weight for a fight and he has always had to cut to get down to the limit. The guy is 6’8" on a huge frame for heaven’s sake, he isn’t going to be walking around at 240 lbs like all of you want him to. I hope he gets one last chance to prove he is still relevant, however, I don’t think it will be in the UFC.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Aug 16, 2010 11:01 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
shit people really like hating on mir
mir beat a prime sylvia, why do u think he couldnt beat the current version of sylvia?
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
I'd like to see timmy against some of the younger HWs...
Roy Nelson, Pat Barry, Schaub, even Duffee (if he wins a few)
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 16, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I know.
but I just included him cause it’s a good matchup and he’s still considered as one part of the “new UFC Heavyweights” group, along with Carwin (who’s also relatively old)
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 16, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Because I think Tim beats him on the feet. Frank likes to pretend he is a great stand up fighter, he isn’t. I’ve never seen Mir throw much of anything but punches while standing, that’s not gonna work against Tim’s long reach and powerful kicks. Tim could easliy bully Frank up against the cage and clinch work him to death. As i said before, Tim has been working his ground game a ton. I don’t think he is going to fall into those same submissions on the ground like he did against AA,Mir and Nog.
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by ANance on Aug 16, 2010 11:20 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Top 10, I don’t think so, but top 15 yeah. If he hadn’t taken that stupid fight with Mercer, he would probably be talking to Joe Silva right now. Tim v Carwin actually make sense, I thought Carwin should fight Rothwell next, but he is out for a while, so Big Tim would be interesting match-up with some name value. Carwin is probably right in line to get a re-match for the title when Cain and Dos Santos get done with their shots. They could put it on one of the November cards, and keep Shane active.
The only point of having Tim Sylvia return to the UFC is so he can get beat up by the new crop of exciting young heavyweights. I don’t need to see that, since I kinda like Tim. He needs to be fighting the Paul Buentello’s and Pedro Rizzo’s of the world, and getting that hunting show of his on the air. I’m more interested in that than any of his future fights, to be honest.
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I agree with the whole point of the article, and he can still forge some interesting matchups in the UFC HW division,
but top 10?
Heavyweight MMA Consensus Rankings posted July 29, 2010
Rank Fighter Points Promotion Last Rank
21 Tim Sylvia 54 Free Agent 21
I’d say he’s probably at around 19 now. I know I’m nitpicking, but yeah, they need to get him back in the UFC.
by Anton Tabuena on Aug 16, 2010 11:10 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If the money isn't right for the UFC, SF could pay him 60/60 I bet...
…a rematch with Arlovski would sell, and Andrei needs some help drawing a crowd after his last 2 outings…
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
George Carlin
I think there are some good fights for him in Strikeforce
Other than Fedor and Overeem I think he’d be competitive with all the heavyweights on the roster.
I wouldn't mind seeing Sylvia return to the UFC.
I wonder what type of fighter Sylvia would be if he was training out of Minnesota Martial Arts Academy with Brock Lesnar.
lmfao
the guy hasnt even fought at heavyweight in 2 years but good try
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"A man who pushed UFC mainstay Cheick Kongo more than ten minutes"
LMFAO dont you mean " a man who got his ass handed to him for 10 mins by cheick kongo"
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Yeah that was a beating. Getting outwrestled by Kongo just shouldn’t happen.
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by Derek Suboticki on Aug 16, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Move JBJ up to heavyweight
and have Sylvia try to derail another young up and comer’s career as he did with Vera.
He needs a couple more nice wins over relevant competition
before he can erase the memory of that Mercer flash KO.
Tim beating Buentello is not the sign of a huge comeback
You state that Buentello went the distance with gave Struve all he can handle and pushed Kongo for ten minutes. Two things. Buentello may be an exciting fighter but he is clearly one dimensional and with the decline of his athletic prime, even that one dimension is fading. Struve, despite being an up and comer still has horrible defense and getting outwrestled by Kongo is something no heavyweight should have the misfortune of admitting.
Tim beating this man, who happened to lose to the aforementioned fighters anyway, is not the sign that he is back on the warpath. Tim looked similar to the way he did in his last few fights; fat, (good god is he fat) slow and sluggish. Throw him in with the elite of the division and I see him getting destroyed unless by chance he maybe got motivated again. Too many people think of big Tim as a turd that won’t flush. They just want him to go away but he keeps showing back up.
by dreamers_12345 on Aug 16, 2010 12:52 PM EDT reply actions
Sylvia
is a big,lumbering idiot.If you didn’t know who he was you would only have to look at the photo above which screams “douche”.
Another steroid user too.Go ahead,put him back in the UFC and let Lesnar and co. kick his fat arse.
I will be the first to admit I made and still do make my fair share of BIG Timmy Jokes. I mean how can you not ? From him openly admitting to walking around in the nude with the UFC belt on ,To Tim almost puking on the set of inside the MMA, then to the Mercer KO, And this is only a few of the manyblunders that have come over the Years with Tim’s career .That being said after all the horrible decisions he and Monty Cox have made with his career over the last few years I think he is finally and its about time on the right rode back to possibly becoming a top HW again. The Jason Riley fight was a nice start to just get a W on his record after that horribly embarrassing Mercer KO , And even thought at the time I did not agree with the Pudzianowski fight looking back now it did help get his name back out there and Timdid what he had to do went out there and destroyed Pudzianowski,If Tim can Win this Rizzo fight after back to back Wins over Buentello and Rizzo I would think he is right back knocking on the door of eather a Strike Force or UFC Contract ?
As for Tim being a top 10 HW now at this point – no way I say Top 15 around the 14th or 15th spot on my list. But back to back Wins over Buentello and Rizzo would definitely help move him closer and hopefully get him a contract with eather Strike Froce or Zuffa. And if he gets one more shot to prove he is a legit top 10 HW he better make the most out of it becasue it would be his last chance. This Rizzo fight coming up in my opinion is the biggest fight of his career.
Never going to happen, for good reason
Let’s break down a few reasons why:
The fans HATE Tim Sylvia. His looks, personality and fighting style are completely unlikable. Anderson Silva was more popular during the Maia fight than Tim was his entire championship reign.
He’s not top 10, in fact BE’s ranking of him at 21 is just about right.
It’s honestly doubtful if he could get himself in good enough shape to make the 265 limit again.
Despite all of these facts, he thinks he’s hot shit and would probably be asking UFC for 100k+ a fight. “Look, I realize nobody wants to see me at all and I’ll probably miss weight, but I deserve compensation!”
not top 10
i want to see him against JDS or brock
same reason i want to see GSP/alves fighting hughes again
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Bring him back for a winner goes home fight against Kongo.
Then, let him test Morecraft, Russow, Mitrione. If he strings together these wins, then rematch him with any of Mir, Big Nog, or Randy. Then for his retirement fight, Dana brings in Ray Mercer for Tim to kill to complete the full circle redemption.
Life is hard....get a fucking helmet.
After reading this piece, if I didn’t know better you’d swear that Buentello was a top 10 HW which he isn’t. Let’s face it the only real news coming out of that fight was that Paul should join Hardonk in the retirement line because he looked like crap. He had a shot to make it back to the UFC and put on one of his worst performance in his career that was pathetic. And basically showed that he has no business being in the UFC again just like Tim neither guy is a top HW and both would get tooled in the UFC by middle of the pack HW’s like Barry and Duffee.
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by ANance on Aug 16, 2010 11:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I love this attitude
Isn’t this whole site nothing but people disagreeing? Who are the people that are coming here for consensus and warm fuzzies? This is the Internet, man!
Also: check out the log in your eye.
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