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Should Strikeforce Fire Fedor Emelianenko and Let Him Go to the UFC?

Are the good times over for Strikeforce's shot gun wedding to Fedor Emelianenko and his M-1 Global promotions?
Photo via Showtime Sports

That's what Jake Rossen thinks. He points out that Fabricio Werdum is injured and unavailable for a rematch in 2010 and that Strikeforce appears to be booking Antonio Silva for the next title shot at Alistair Overeem, then he continues:

It is at this point we should begin to consider the idea that Emelianenko is officially more trouble than he's worth.

There is no one outside of Overeem and Silva that makes any kind of sense for Emelianenko at this point in time. (I suppose Strikeforce could salvage the Josh Barnett fight, and it would be semi-worthwhile, but who knows what his licensing hassles would involve?) For Emelianenko's management to refuse either fight, it tells me they want a "confidence builder" so the Russian can polish some of the armor that got dulled against Werdum. It's not something Coker should be willing to accommodate, especially when the remainder of that division harbors Mike Kyle and Herschel Walker.

If the Werdum loss was just a transient mistake, there's no reason for Emelianenko to be rebuilt. He should be in there against top competition. If that's not on the table, the massive cost of employing him is nonsensical. It's a money drain for very little payoff.

Emelianenko isn't drawing ratings far outside the norm and he no longer carries the cachet of being the "best fighter ever." Refusing a fight with Overeem or Silva means he's a barnacle. Give him his one last contracted fight -- let Daniel Cormier either get a fast lesson or the chance at a huge upset -- and then cut him loose. Fighters fight; they don't balk.

I have to agree with Rossen that the Fedor experiment has hardly been a great success for Strikeforce. He's only headlined one CBS event -- a show that drew strong, if not great,  ratings -- and one Showtime event that did very well for Showtime, but seemingly at the cost of distracting the promotion completely. 

He held out for no discernible reason and skipped their April CBS card, dooming that show to dismal ratings and possibly killing Strikeforce's chances to do another CBS card.

Then he lost in 69 seconds to Fabricio Werdum, a hand-picked opponent.

Unless Strikeforce can sign Josh Barnett and somehow get him through the California Athletic Commission's licensing requirements without issue, they have no one available for Fedor to fight in the fall.

Might be time to give up on that impossible dream.

Of course, even if Strikeforce did let Fedor go, there is no guarantee that he would chose to fight in the UFC, but that would be on him and his M-1 Global management, not Scott Coker and Strikeforce.

What do you think?

Poll
Should Strikeforce let Fedor Emelianenko go?
No -- "I can't quit you"
380 votes
No -- "In Putin's Russia, M-1 Global quit you"
590 votes
Yes
2280 votes

3250 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 326 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Jake Rossen is right.

I feel dirty. I’ve been saying this forever: the sooner Strikeforce gets out of the Fedor business, the better chance they have at long term viability.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 14, 2010 5:43 PM EDT reply actions  

….and the UFC should stay out of it, too. He should go get some Puji Money and end his fighting days in Japan, if you ask me.

"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen

by Blackout612 on Aug 14, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

^^This^^

 I love it

If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?

by whardiek on Aug 15, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not That I am a Huge Fan of M-1

But, is there any promoter out there that is not a gold digging whore? Really? Did Mother Teresa just rise up from the grave and start managing fighters?

by memitim on Aug 15, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Strikeforce should do whatever they determine to be the best decision for their business.

Inb4 7 posts of HURR DURR ITS STRIKEFORCE THEY NEVER DO ANYTHING RIGHT EVER AND KILLED MY DOG

a kitten dies every time you compare an individual sport to a team sport.

by Marvin Malehooves on Aug 14, 2010 5:43 PM EDT reply actions  

^ Clearly didn’t watch last night’s card (and you call yourself an MMA fan)

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 14, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

shocker that you were the one to respond

I did and the reffing and judging was bad. The rest of it was enjoyable.

a kitten dies every time you compare an individual sport to a team sport.

by Marvin Malehooves on Aug 14, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually scratch that

what I meant is I CANT BELIEVE SHITFARCE DIDNT USE CYAN COLORED LASER LIGHTS FOR THE WALK OUT. WHAT A FUCKING JOKE

a kitten dies every time you compare an individual sport to a team sport.

by Marvin Malehooves on Aug 14, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Strikeforce sucks

When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton

by donkeypunch on Aug 14, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Strikeforce has proven to be a lesser organization and borderline incompetent at times. They just aren’t that great. Why does that bother you so much?

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis

by Goonisis on Aug 14, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Strikeforce is okay.

a kitten dies every time you compare an individual sport to a team sport.

by Marvin Malehooves on Aug 14, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like tuna pizza.

I'm a lover not a fighter

by spectaa on Aug 14, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Strikeforce fights are usually entertaining and fun to watch

Their TV production is deplorable and so are the commentators.

Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.

by SSreporters on Aug 14, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nah

Ur just a hater man. Strikeforce is up and coming, progressively getting better fighters and putting on better events. Give them a better chance, than to just obsess over bumps in the road.

by QuickJack on Aug 14, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure, i'm a hater i guess

But SF has earned that hate by being really a pretty shitty promotion. They have some good MMA there sometimes and i usually catch all their shows only because i’m such a fan of the sport, but much like Fedor and M1 they just aren’t worth the trouble. Horrible production, paper thin divisions, treat their fighters like shit, etc.

Not good for MMA, not good for anyone.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis

by Goonisis on Aug 14, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holy shit...

REC REC REC

Contributor, NorthTexasFisticuffs.com
Follow me on Twitter

by Applejack McNeil on Aug 14, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha! - That is awesome...

And, not only is he not the champion, he can’t even be made or persueded to fight the actual, legitimate champion…pathetic…

Next up, in the heavyweight division of the minor leagues, Fedor will have a pointless fight against previously positive for steroids Bigfoot to determine who fights Werdum in his 2nd straight win-and-get-a-title-shot top contender fight…

After all of that, there will finally be someone to fight the champion (Overeem) in (theoretically) a title fight…to determine the MINOR LEAGUE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION…

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 14, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't believe that whole thing man...

It’s just completely ridiculous and they stay talking about “what the fans wanna see” well none of the fans I’ve seen are happy with the shit their pulling. What fans are they talking about?

by HitokiriX on Aug 14, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right

By “fans” I think they mean friends, family and M-1 cohorts…

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 14, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

you guys are silly. They put up a poll on their website. they did science.

by Phildo on Aug 14, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol

but honestly, i’ve never been to either of their websites…

by HitokiriX on Aug 14, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, but

The only way I can see that happening is if it were an employee website…

Then again, I would guess that most people who would go to M-1’s website prefer to see Fedor attempt to avenge his loss against Werdum rather than seeing him have another loss to avenge…

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 14, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those crazy Russians and their logic.

If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?

by whardiek on Aug 15, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I AGREE

SHITFARCE’S PRODUCTION QUALITY SUCKS THEY NEVER USE CYAN COLORED LASER LIGHTS JESUS SHIT FARCE, GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER COKER :)

"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.

by The Darkness on Aug 14, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

This shit is annoying.

"I'm gonna go after number one, whoever it is. If it's Anderson, or I gotta go up after the guys at 205, or go on a diet and go after Jose Aldo-- it doesn't matter." -Chael Sonnen

by Blackout612 on Aug 14, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed about the reffing, but what judging did you not agree with? I thought they were right, given the ludicrous premise of the 3 minute rounds.

by Horselover Fat on Aug 14, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought Kajula won but I was extremely drunk and a little biased towards her.

a kitten dies every time you compare an individual sport to a team sport.

by Marvin Malehooves on Aug 14, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay, yeah admittedly that was a close fight and I was pissed it was so freakin’ short because no clear victor had emerged by the time it was over. I still gave the nod to Tate, but I was a bit biased towards her (DAT ASS)

by Horselover Fat on Aug 14, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed on Kajula.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 14, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've been of that mind since he lost to Werdum.

Overeem is the golden goose now…as far as non-ufc fighters go anyways.

It should be easy to promote a monster like Overeem. He looks the part for the casuals and he has legit skill.

GSP is an alien sent here to humiliate our men and mate with our women

by MMA_Messiah on Aug 14, 2010 5:43 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Strikeforce loses a headache

I guess it would be beneficial. But then Strikeforce just becomes a watered down UFC, except they have women fighters.

"If I woke up looking like that, I would run towards the nearest living thing and kill it." -Master Shake
We have to take the amulet to the banana king!

by II SMASH II on Aug 14, 2010 5:45 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

What’s wrong with “becoming a watered down UFC”? They still can put on fun and interesting fights. And once every few shows they can have legit top 10 to 15 guys fighting each other. What’s wrong with that?

"I have to carry out another fine moment before I die."
-Tatsuya Kawajiri-

by Erich Vowell on Aug 14, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Would you like to be known as 2nd best?

"If I woke up looking like that, I would run towards the nearest living thing and kill it." -Master Shake
We have to take the amulet to the banana king!

by II SMASH II on Aug 14, 2010 6:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

That’s not how they’re looking at it. They’re not competing with the UFC, they’re just carving out their own niche in the MMA marketplace. In the western world, UFC is MMA, and that’s not going to change anytime soon.

...like young thieves in a glowing orchard, loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing.
- C. McCarthy

by crazybones on Aug 14, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

They’re competing with the UFC. When you manage to sign the #1 HW (at the time) over the UFC, AND get on national television, you’re no longer attempting to be a small, regional promotion.

by pud333 on Aug 14, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

This.

Strikeforce clearly decided that they could use the spare parts from EliteXC, glued to the chassis of their own promotion, and put Vadim and Fedor in the driver’s seat, and that it would let them outrace the UFC. It hasn’t worked.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Aug 14, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is just differing opinions, and I’ll agree to disagree, but I don’t think Coker has any illusions about supplanting the UFC. He’s a smart guy, and I’m sure he’s looked at it objectively – Strikeforce puts on entertaining cards every once in a while, but every one of their divisions is very thin, and they’re running out of breath trying to corral what few fighters they have.

...like young thieves in a glowing orchard, loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing.
- C. McCarthy

by crazybones on Aug 14, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Im with pud and AJB on this.

 Nice point AJB about the signing of Fedor, CBS contract and the infusion of Showtime/Elite XC into Strikeforces’ brain trust. Let’s not forget to include the signing of Hendo and the potential match up with Batista and Lashley. This aren’t moves to carve out a niche, they are moves to jump up the mma hierarchy. Strikeforce have Showtime and CBS pushing for casual viewers at any cost. I dont give Strikeforce the benefit of the doubt anymore, before the merger and tv contract, Scott Coker had complete coontrol over his show. I don’t see that anymore. I see, CBS, Showtime, Dream and M-1 Global all telling Coker what he can and cannot do. It’s too many chiefs, not enough indians.

If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?

by whardiek on Aug 14, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fedor or not

They’ll ALWAYS be second best. On their best day. Why not accept that instead of pouring money down the drain in denial of your role

by JasonHarris on Aug 15, 2010 5:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Strikeforce wishes in their wildest dreams that they were a watered down UFC. I like it fine for what it is, and they do have a handful of great fighters, but there’s no division, no development of divisions, no discernible future from a competition standpoint. Spending on Fedor was just an all-in attempt to pretend that they’re more than they are.

by Kwisatz Haderach on Aug 14, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

the problem is how they run themselves. Coker can’t sell a fucking fight if his life depended on it, they unnecessarily shelve fighters and refuse to promote their burgeoning stars in an effort to appease a singular russian entity, and they say things like Bobby Lashley vs. a person who has never competed in MMA should be a PPV over a fight like Overeem vs. Fedor, two top five fighters at their weight classes. It’s pathetic how they screw over certain fighters and play Patsy to others to keep them on contract.

Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down

by Austin Martin on Aug 14, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Roger Huerta got shelved for a year while he was ready and prepared to fight

while under a UFC contract. And while Coker may have talked about a guy who’s never competed in MMA being on his PPV and never acted on it or even signed the guy yet, Dana White is throwing James fucking Toney in a co-headlining spot of a PPV. Last I checked, the guy has also never competed in MMA which was your point of contention. And don’t even start on screwing certain fighters, lest I mention the Fitch/AKA fiasco.

We can compare the two organizations all we want and get into little shit-fits about it, or we can offer honest criticism of the two separate of the other. Only the latter is productive.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Huerta was offered a fight… he turned it down.

by mmalogic on Aug 14, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really? What fight was that?

Because I talked to Roger too.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was offered Joe Daddy which he turned down:

http://www.fightline.com/fl/news/2009/0110/rogerhuertashtml/

The fight and huerta turning it down was also confirmed by mmajunkie.

by mmalogic on Aug 14, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha, I love hearing you putting faith in an unspecified source from Sherdog.

Dana would be so happy with you.

This isn’t the whole story. If it was, then those systems in UFC contracts to prevent fights from being turned down would have taken effect and they didn’t. So… whatever.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was Huerta chasing some acting roles at the time too...

I want to say his time off was very much his own decision. Was this while he was getting that role on the Street Fighter movie?

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 14, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

This was after he announced he wanted to retire from MMA temporarily

for acting and modeling opportunities. I don’t recall the timeline perfectly off the top of my head, but I’m pretty sure it was after he was picked up for the Tekken movie.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then why exactly did you bring up Huerta above...

as an example of the UFC putting a ready fighter on the shelf? Seems like it was nothing like some of the stuff that has been going on with SF lately.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 14, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because he wanted to finish his contract and then retire.

Roger made that very clear. And the UFC iced him. They also iced Arlovski and Vera. Somebody was complaining that Strikeforce screws over some of their fighters to push others. I was saying that the UFC does it too. And that doesn’t matter. Strikeforce is fucked up for not getting Riggs more fights when he’s available. UFC is fucked up for putting Roger on ice since he had time left on his contract and stuck his neck out to fight five times in one year for them, not getting full camps or recovery times.

The irony is that my original point was that we should critique each organization for their fuckups without drawing parallels or being distracted by illegitimate “Strikeforce wants to compete!” straw men. And I got sucked into comparing the two. It’s a poisonous discourse, and I hate how often we all are infected by it.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because he wanted to finish his contract and then retire.

Assuming Roger actually wanted to retire…which was obviously a lie, how…exactly, was having one fight left on his contract stopping him? He can’t retire from a contract that they can’t make him fufil? The only way in which that last fight was stopping Roger Huerta from retiring was if his retirement plan was to go on fighting in other promotions…which apparently was the case.

And while I don’t have my Roger Huerta biography in front of me, I am pretty sure he was doing some acting jobs during that year. So its not like it was simply him sitting at home wasting his life waiting for a phone call. He was busy and at the time fighting wasn’t the priority to him, it only became one again when…surprise of all surprises, the Tekken movie wasn’t a smashing success.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 14, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bullshit.

You love to get nasty. I saw you in the background of that Ke$ha video.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

How is that not the “whole story” you alluded to above, insinuating that Roger didn’t turn down a fight?

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 14, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are certain things I can't talk about in a public forum,

which appears to be a luxury that mmalogic enjoys over me. So when I hit that barrier, I just insinuate that he goes to a place downtown where all the freaks come around… a hole in the wall, a dirty free for all. And it turns me on when they take it off.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

THE FUCK

are you talking about? all the cryptic talk is stupid

Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down

by Austin Martin on Aug 14, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

This^^^

Confucius says:

"Baseball is wrong; man with four balls cannot walk."

by RiverHorror on Aug 15, 2010 4:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure I know who he is...

not that it matters. It was just fun to figure out since he was being so cryptic here.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 15, 2010 5:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great...

…now Razreshat’s being cryptic too…

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Aug 15, 2010 6:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

He shouldn’t have eaten that hippie…

Guillotine.

by iiowyn on Aug 15, 2010 6:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think there was something in that hippie...

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 15, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not a big fan of "outing" someone, but...

I have a few skills at figuring out the name behind the user name and decided to have some fun last night.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 15, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know who he is, so I can judge for myself if I think he’s being truthful or not. And I believe he is. That probably won’t be good enough for most people, but hey, take it for what’s worth.

by John Nash on Aug 15, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is my understanding that that fight was turned down for “personal reasons” which also had to do with him not signing a five fight extension.
The other quotes in that March 2009 article are just as interesting:

After declining to renew his contract with the UFC in January, Huerta said in the most recent episode of HDNet’s “Inside MMA” that he’s been stuck waiting by the phone.
“To be honest I’m just waiting for that phone call,” Huerta said.
or as another article commented:
a source close to the fighter told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) Huerta hasn’t been approached with a single fight.
“There haven’t been any (offers) yet,” a source familiar with Huerta’s negotiations said.

by John Nash on Aug 14, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

The only way Zuffa can extend an existing contract is if a Guy turns down a fight he was offered to fulfill part of said contract.

ie: Huerta was offered his last fight on said contract. Huerta confirmed he was offered the joe daddy fight, he turned it down (also confirmed by huerta), thus his existing contract extended 6 months (also confirmed by huerta).

In conclusion both of you are clueless.

by mmalogic on Aug 14, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or, youre bringing up stuff doesn't change my point and talking past people, like you always do.

They iced him. They screwed him over. It was bullshit when they did it, it’s still bullshit.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

After he turned down a fight.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 14, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

*sigh*

You are clearly being reflexively pro-UFC.

Lets say the UFC iced everybody who turned down ONE fight. I’d hate to tell you the guys who would be on that list right now, especially since it involves some of the best athletes, nicest guys, and gamest fighters around. Sometimes shit happens. And no, this isn’t me talking about Roger right now.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can’t really take any of your allegations seriously without some of those vaunted facts you have to keep out of the public domain (under what punishment is, much like the veracity of your claims, anyone’s guess).

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 14, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're a hellaciously infamous commenter

but quite frankly, I don’t give a fuck if you trust me or not.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then I shall place you in the global warming isn’t happening camp: Show me some numbers and we’ll talk.

You could always write about how these guys are getting fucked, but hey, I guess whatever the silence earns you is worth more than righting/airing out all the wrongs you have locked in your vault full of Zuffa’s closets. I can only deduce you either don’t care about the fighters or keeping your mouth shut pays a pretty penny.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 14, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or I do more good behind the scenes

than anybody could writing pissy stories and cursing on online radio.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you spend time behind the scenes, accumulating this dossier against Zuffa, and you… sit on it.

Keep fighting the good fight, brother.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 14, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've worked hand in hand with them.

Although I’m sure you prefer your caricature of me being Supremacy or the like.

I do what’s best for those I work with and my friends who put their health on the line to follow their dreams and bring you entertainment. Most of the time, that involves working with Zuffa. Other times, it involves calling out bullshit they’ve pulled.

You have your side and I have mine. Sometimes they are the same thing and we’ll agree. Other times, you’re just being a subservient tool. Enjoy your internet radio show.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're not calling them out, though

Just insinuating that there’s this massive pool of scum that we can’t see.

Which is chickenshit.

I picked a side to root for. Just because it’s winning doesn’t make me subservient. I criticize Zuffa when I see fit, but God Damn am I glad they’re running things.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 14, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Capitalism is a winning side.

That doesn’t mean it’s above reproach or that Ayn Rand’s writing is any less pedantic.

If you knew how pathetic and disorganize Zuffa could be on a lot of internal affairs, you’d be shocked. But keep up your shtick. ’Cause the only pull you got is the wool over your eyes.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 15, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Remove it!

Educate me!

(crickets)

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 15, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don't rely on my experience.

Go consult for a local promotion and learn how ACs really work for MMA. Become friends with managers and learn the nitty gritty of what they do. Befriend some fighters and see how much help they need just to survive and train. Talk with prominent MMA sponsors and see how they market and why they make the decisions they do.

It’s not my responsibility to make you learn why you’re wrong. You’re the one who goes on making positive claims about how everything Zuffa does is glorious and positive. And you’re welcome to be hilariously wrong over and over. But don’t be all prissy and act out because I can’t divulge information that you aren’t willing to learn for yourself.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 15, 2010 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well

You seem content to keep your horror stories about how The Best Thing To Ever Happen To Mixed Martial Arts is actually a tumor.

When you have something that I’ve been hilariously wrong on – and, of course, you can let me know without opening the Ninth Seal – then I’m all ears. Until then, you’re a peddler with an empty cart.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 15, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I've spoken with fighters, agents, sponsors, and media including staff here

about various “horror stories” of the industry. You know, people in the industry. People who matter at some level. Sorry you haven’t achieved shit yet. You want to learn, go ahead and apply for a job somewhere in the industry. Step out of your current comfort zone. Until then, keep up your cute little features at fightlinker. The rest of us are working to support the sport, not put on a blindfold and cheerlead.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 15, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

You’d make a shitty missionary. Even then, they at least give you a book.

I think you’re doing more harm than good for the sport by pushing for co-promotion.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 15, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, enjoy that straw man.

Co-promotion is stupid, and I’ve never stated otherwise.

But way to distract from the fact that, while I’m obviously not a big name or anybody you’d recognize, I do work to support the sport we all love. You’re a marginal name with no influence and haven’t done shit to make anything better for a single fighter. You haven’t even done anything significant for your team, Zuffa. Keep toiling for your benevolent masters though, someday they’ll recognize your great work. Maybe you’ll even get credentialed and your writing will be comparable to the great achievements of Bleacher Report.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 15, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I appreciate

That you think I’m a hack writer. Point taken. I’d say something about your output, but (un?)fortunately, it doesn’t exist.

I work pro bono. You get paid. Whom would you say has the better claim to objectivity here?

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 15, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd say the guy with an emotional connection to fighters

is probably more involved in the sport. How many champion level fighters have you had a friendly dinner with? How many guys in the UFC/WEC have borrowed your car when they couldn’t afford a rental? How often have you used your connections to get gear to an athlete who can’t afford to train on the pay they get from the organization they fight in?

Right. Keep complaining about how bad the Challengers cards look or that Quadros looks like a zombie. I’ll keep actually supporting the sport.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 15, 2010 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Will you two just cut it out or go get a room? It’s like watching Moonlighting in here.

by who me on Aug 15, 2010 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Supporting the UFC IS supporting the sport. Criticizing shitty organizations that embarrass the sport IS supporting the sport.

I know several fighters – all of which would KILL to have the problems that WEC/UFC fighters have – but they’re not as famous as the people you know, so they must not be important when they say that the guys doing what they do but making 10,000% more money should be happy – not satisfied, but happy – with what they have.

So you pick a side and I pick a side, but yours is supporting the sport while mine isn’t.

I never said you weren’t involved – you clearly are. But I think it taints your objectivity. They’re making more now than ever. They’ll make more last year than they did this year.

Anyone profiting off of MMA fighters without being an MMA fighter is going to have an anti-UFC attitude. It’s pretty obvious why – the more organizations out there, the more parasites (non-fighters) the sport can sustain.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 15, 2010 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don't talk about objectivity while you openly flaunt your love for the UFC.

It’s unseemly.

And I already admitted I’m not objective. I support the athletes. I support my friends. I support the actual product of MMA, not the PPV carrier or Showtime or FSN or Zuffa or Bellator or Strikeforce. I do what is best for the athletes, both in my work and in my off time. You preach the gospel of Dana White on blogs. Call me a parasite all you want, but I secure far more pay for athletes per year than I earn. Especially those under the Zuffa banner.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 15, 2010 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

There have to be some “parasites” (again, a term for those making money off of a sport while not training or participating in it) – with one org, there are fewer, with many, there are more.

You seem like one of the good ones. You hate most MMA mangers (we agree!) and I don’t doubt your dedication to the people you represent/work for. I just don’t like it when I can say

“We both want MMA to grow, we just have different prescriptions”

And the response is

“You’re either a shill or a moron, and your writing/podcast sucks”

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 15, 2010 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're writing and speech are fine, I never impugned your ability,

only your subject matter.

Clearly most MMA managers suck. That’s an objective fact.

But I’d like to point out that I do things for guys I’m not working for and not contracted to. People who I have little to no business relationship to. Those are the guys who I settle for getting free gear and connecting sponsorships with. Because that’s the best I can do for a friend sometimes is free shit and finding somebody willing to pay them. I don’t drop names out of respect, but you’d be surprised who needs that sort of thing.

It’s your dedication to Zuffa that bothers me. They fuck up way more than you’re willing to admit. You talk about a fighters union but don’t knock Dana’s clearly anti-union actions. Shit like that bothers me. I see too many friends struggling to support themselves and their families under the most rapidly expanding sport in the world due to things that Zuffa could change essentially on a whim. Fuck that.

Maybe we have different prescriptions for the growth of MMA. But mine are the more modern and applicable kind. While I prescribe a limited dose of vicodin for pulled wisdom teeth, you’re selling heroin and snake oil.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 15, 2010 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Snake oil?

Does the system I advocate not work? Where’s the highest paid fighter? Where’s the highest average fighter pay? The highest minimum/maximum?

Any kind of union that happens under Dana’s approval is fucked from Jump Street. A legitimate union must come from the fighters themselves, in the face of opposition from ownership. Otherwise, it’s all Kabuki. There has to be an acknowledgment by both sides that both need each other to thrive.

My prescription for growth is “the same thing that’s been spearheading the insane growth we’ve witnessed over the last decade and, more specifically, over the last three years since PRIDE died.” Yours seems to be “the opposite”. Color me puzzled (and tired).

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 15, 2010 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

É que você, Carlos?

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 15, 2010 4:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

You said...
Roger Huerta got shelved for a year while he was ready and prepared to fight

Pursuing acting gigs and turning fights down doesn’t sound like “ready and prepared” to me.

Contributor, NorthTexasFisticuffs.com
Follow me on Twitter

by Applejack McNeil on Aug 14, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea I think Roger Huerta was a pretty bad example for what he was trying to present here.

by who me on Aug 14, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

He turned down one fight in Feb of 2009 – which he couldn’t take – and then got no offers until Sept of that year. You can make up your mind if that is being frozen out or not.

by John Nash on Aug 15, 2010 12:50 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

It's not

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 15, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously subo, is there anything that Zuffa or the UFC has done that you didn’t agree with? If so, what? Because I can give you an extensive list for every promotion, but you apparently have no criticisms for T-Rex of the sport.

by John Nash on Aug 15, 2010 1:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Sure.

- Belfort shouldn’t get a title shot for beating Franklin at 195.
- I would have completely abandoned Zuffa if they cut Anderson Silva following a win.
- I want a fighter’s union to ensure a greater share of revenues for fighters.
- I think several of their matchmaking decisions suck.
- Dana probably shouldn’t have called Loretta Hunt’s erroneous source a faggot.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 15, 2010 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought he was getting iced but Roger and his manager said he wasn’t in this interview so I don’t know what to say besides “I hope that acting career works out for you”. Oh wait what happened with that? Perhaps Roger Huerta is just a bad example for the point that is trying to be made here, it’s not like there aren’t any other examples to be found that make the point without all the other issues here.

Though Huerta (20-2-1, 1 NC) fought and won five times in 2007 — culminating with the Guida bout — his schedule became muddled the next year. In 2008, he entered the cage only once and lost to Kenny Florian via unanimous decision at UFC 87 last August.

Huerta’s contract was extended for two six-month periods during that time due to his inability to commit to fights that were offered to him. Over the summer, Huerta made plans to return to Augsburg College, but the opportunity to play Miguel "The Matador" Rojo in the feature film adaptation of the popular video game "Tekken," proved too good an opportunity to pass up. Huerta remains one class shy of his Bachelor’s Degree, while the film, in which Huerta has a small speaking role, is due out in fall 2009.

Huerta also turned down a fight with Joe Stevenson at UFC 95 on Feb. 21 in London, due to "personal family issues." Stevenson will now face Diego Sanchez instead.

Huerta’s reps believe the fighter’s future in film looks promising. Huerta recently signed a three-movie development deal with Lion’s Gate films, whose recent projects include "The Transporter 3" and "The Spirit."

"Roger loves fighting for the UFC, but it doesn’t make sense for him to re-sign and continually let them down when he can’t take fights due to other projects," said Huerta’s manager Jeff Clark, of NCFC Fight Management. "They have a business to run and schedules to keep as well."

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/Huerta-Passes-on-UFC-Contract-15722

by who me on Aug 15, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think the UFC is above "icing" a fighter...

but using Roger “I want to try acting for a year” Huerta as your example is just wrong.

Besides, as I stated above, having a fight left on a contract in no way stops you from retiring in “I’ll never fight again” sense. Its only any issue if you in fact want to fight again, just for a different promotion.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 14, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

hello mcfly… I wasnt arguing your point. I was arguing the misinformation you were using to make your point.

Ill be happy to argue your point though if you’d like :)

Joe Riggs being iced for 8 months and Babalu being iced for more than 8 months had nothing to do with Strikeforce wanting to sign new contracts with them and them balking.

They were both coming off losses… Strikeforce just didnt want to pay them and give them fights during that time.

That’s a huge difference between a guy playing hardball and putting him on ice (prelims, etc…) and just not wanting to promote and pay a fighter because he lost his last fight. Oh strikeforce does the former too.

So first off what’s happening to fighters in Strikeforce in these situations is not the same thing as what Zuffa does…

And secondly Im not even saying what Strikeforce is doing is wrong… It’s within their rights.

Im saying what they are doing is stupid and will bite them in the ass in more ways then one. And it’s coming back home to roost

You cant get away with shit like that when you desperately need fighters on your side. If you dont want to pay them then just release them.

But this is all good because the market needs it… it cleanses all the stupid and shitty managers from the sport. It teaches other fighters what to look out for, etc…

by mmalogic on Aug 14, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man, my original point up top is basically what you are illustrating.

UFC does some bad shit. Strikeforce does some bad shit. Lets talk about each individually. Lets critique them both for the good of MMA.

It’s uncool for either promotion to do terrible things. I’d like for the discourse to be raised above “Well, the UFC does it and Strikeforce does it, how can they call themselves competition!”

Coker is far from an angel. The way he burned Buentello and Baroni was cold as hell. I’d love for us (not you and me, since we obviously each have our own interests, but the MMA community) to be able to talk about that without saying it’s ok because Dana did it to Hendo.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

What Coker did to Shields is probably worse than anything – Jake wanted to go right to Zuffa and Coker waived his EXC contract in front of his face.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 14, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

How was that different than Hendo/UFC?

Dana announced that he wasn’t going to negotiate with Hendo. And sent him on the SF.

" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "

by aaronb on Aug 15, 2010 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hendo wasn’t a current UFC champ.

by ufc4 on Aug 15, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dude

When Coker purchased EXC’s assets, he received Jake’s contract. Jake thought when EXC died that he could go right to the UFC, wanted to, and Coker told him “no”.

You’d have to be somewhat retarded to compare that to the Hendo situation.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 15, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's the exact same situation

The only difference is one move was made by Scott Coker, the other was made by the object of your Elton John-ish desires.

" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "

by aaronb on Aug 15, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

What?

Coker: Holds a contract and forces Shields to honor it despite Shields’ desires to go to Zuffa
White: Releases a fighter and refuses to bid for his services.

Not even close. What Coker did was worse.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 15, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holds a contract and forces Shields to honor it despite Shields

Explain how that is different from the UFC forcing Randy Couture to honor his contract when he wanted to challenge the best fighter on the planet?

by John Nash on Aug 15, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't the UFC absorb the fighter contracts

Of Pride and the WFA?

" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "

by aaronb on Aug 15, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, so you bring up a DIFFERENT situation

I was pointing out that comparing Coker/Shields to Dana/Hendo was retarded. Thank you for implicitly admitting your comparison was stupid.

Now, on to this new one – most fighters desperately want to fight in the UFC (Shields being a notable example), so it’s not the same thing as forcing world-class athletes to stay in pissant organizations.

Randy, nottheface, signed a contract with a champion’s clause. Then he tried to break it. Then he came back and you won’t hear him say a bad word about Zuffa today.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 15, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

The UFC has used the same tactics in BOTH CASES

You know damn well that its the case. As usual you are being an idiot and a shill, just for the sake of being argumentative. To recap both of your arguments.

Dana announcing he wasn’t resigning Hendo=Coker releasing Shields early from his contract

as

Coker absorbing Shields contract in the EXC purchase=Dana absorbing Rampage’s contract when they bought the WFA

Only difference is the organization.

And most fighters will go and fight where they can get paid the most. No fighter gives a shit about going to the UFC to get the approval of douchy internet guy “Subo”.

" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "

by aaronb on Aug 16, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Did Rampage desperately want to go somewhere else after the WFA purchase like Shields did after the EXC purchase?

Didn’t think so.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 16, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Believe me he know what the fuck he’s talking about.

by John Nash on Aug 14, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

that is certainly your opinion.

but you honestly can’t believe those comparisons are legitimate. A boxing champion vs. MMA legend co-headlining with a LW title fight is a legitimate PPV over a bodybuilder who has never competed in contact sports vs. a ninja turtle.

Huerta got shelved because he was trying to play games with the UFC, and the UFC won. don’t bite the hand that feeds you. Same with Fitch. If you don’t want to play ball, wait until your contract is up, and play somewhere else. There were plenty of people that wanted to play ball in his place under the UFC’s terms, and Fitch ended up coming back.

Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down

by Austin Martin on Aug 14, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm going within the conditions you laid down.

Toney hasn’t fought MMA, that was your gripe. And nice straw man by acting like that’s the only fight they would be selling. Alvarez vs. Melendez could be on the PPV, which is a fucking great fight with two top 5 competitors.

And you called Strikeforce pathetic for screwing over certain fighters. Great. UFC does it more effectively and has a greater sense of spite behind it, so it’s ok? Whatever. I’m not hearing you shitting on Riggs for what he said about Strikeforce on the premise of “not biting the hand.” I’m done with you.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

K, bye.

Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down

by Austin Martin on Aug 14, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alvarez vs. Melendez could be on the PPV, which is a fucking great fight with two top 5 competitors.

LOL

Coker has shown no interest whatsoever in co-promoting with Bellator. Bjorn has been shouting from the rooftops that he wants to make that fight happen and all he has heard from San Jose is crickets chirping.

by Steve4192 on Aug 15, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t really have a problem, hence the “I like it fine for what it is” part:) Just responding to the idea that they would “become” a watered down UFC if they lost Fedor. I don’t go around bagging on Strikeforce, I don’t even see a lot of need to compare them to the UFC. It’s just a random collection of fights, and I like fights, and they occasionally put on a few that interest me. But they’ve allowed Fedor and M-1 to basically dictate the whole company’s future, which is madness. I appreciate that there’s somewhere outside the UFC for Diaz, Fedor, Overeem, Daley, Mo, Mousasi, Melendez, etc. to fight. I just think this whole move was kind of ruinous, and more likely to result in you NOT getting those free fights.

by Kwisatz Haderach on Aug 14, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dont think the fights are comparable… they cant even get their contracted fighters to fight each other giving us the match ups we want to see.

Fedor/Overeem. Cung Le/Lawler. Nick Diaz/Jay Heiron, etc..

If you cant even do that then what’s the point? It’s just a gimmick. Nick Diaz just wants fights favorable for his style… same with fedor… same for Cung Le…. etc…

Might as well just become a pro-wrestling organization… it’s easier to choreograph the outcomes that way.

by mmalogic on Aug 14, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean like

Anderson – GSP?
Anderson – Shogun?
Jon Jones – Anybody worth a shit?
Fitch – Kos – Swick against one another?

they cant even get their contracted fighters to fight each other giving us the match ups we want to see

Aside from the Fedor clusterfuck, its much the same result for both promotions, although the stated reasons differ…

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 14, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your examples...

are weak save for the Fitch/Kos/Swick triad.

Up until recently, GSP, Silva, and Machida were champions of their respective divisions. Superfights are never expected in combat sports.

I’m not even sure why you included Jon Jones.

Contributor, NorthTexasFisticuffs.com
Follow me on Twitter

by Applejack McNeil on Aug 14, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's because, for the most part

I was just ranting about the “giving us the match ups we want to see” part of it, even though I grant the UFC’s issue is Dana not wanting to make the fights we want to see, rather than Coker not being capable of making the fights he (or we) want to see…

Of course, in actuality, the issue of the AKA WWs who won’t fight one another is the only one truly germane to this article…

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 14, 2010 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

The fights we WANT from Strikeforce are the ones that make sense.

The fights we WANT from the UFC are the ones that make us go a big, rubbery one.

Contributor, NorthTexasFisticuffs.com
Follow me on Twitter

by Applejack McNeil on Aug 14, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Dana not wanting to make the fights we want to see"

Wait…wut? This doesn’t make any sense.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 14, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

My point was simply contrasting the UFC and SF in terms of fights we want to see

In Strikeforce, I think the majority of fans would like to see Fedor – Overeem, Cung Le – Lawler, Nick Diaz – Jay Heiron, hell even Fedor – Lawal, but Coker is incapable of making them happen.

In the UFC, I think the majority of fans would like to see GSP – Anderson, JDS – Cain (previously) or Shogun – Anderson and would have preferred that Jon Jones had gotten at least a semi-competitive fight, but unlike the impotent Coker, Dana could make any of those fights happen, but choses not to do so.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 14, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Dana could make any of those fights happen, but choses not to do so."

Again…what?

Anderson – GSP is possibly in the future, but frankly who can blame Dana for being concerned about putting too much on increasingly erratic Anderson.

JDS – Cain…seriously? This is the big fight you are clamoring for in the HW division? Ok…But seriously, it will happen if both keep winning. Why rush too quality contenders into a fight when they both have good avenues toward the title and will likely meet later with a title on the line.

Shogun – Anderson…you know Shogun is injured, right? You know, coming off of his fan demanded rematch with Machida…add in my above comments on Anderson…who is also injured and you get more…Wut?

The problem with calling out Dana is that you have to pick a bunch of stupid examples that have tons of caveats to them because he, in general, gives us a TON of great fights that we want to see.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 14, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sorry, but I don't understand why you don't understand...

I guess I should have left it alone the first time you indicated that you didn’t understand, but I will try to explain one more time…

mmalogic used the phrase “they cant even get their contracted fighters to fight each other giving us the match ups we want to see” which I replied to, eventually leading to your reply.

In no way am I trying to argue that these fights should happen right now, today, tomorrow, or next month. My one and only point was that over time (as his examples showed) Strikeforce was not the only org unwilling or unable to make the fights their fans really wanted to see, with the difference being that in SF the fighters can defacto veto what Coker wants, whereas in the UFC, if Dana wanted to make JDS-Cain earlier this year, or GSP-Anderson instead of Anderson-Sonnen, or almost any other match-up, he could do so but choses not to for a variety of reasons.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 15, 2010 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Then again

When I re-read it all, I can see where my point could get lost…

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 15, 2010 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

We don’t have Carls Jr where I live, we have Hardees. Combined they are the 4th largest fast food chain in the US and they are fighting tooth and claw for market share against the three larger chains (McD, BK, Wendys). Whether they plan on ever being larger than McDonalds or not doesn’t mean that they aren’t in direct daily competition with them on a very wide scale. For Strikeforce it’s the same, they aren’t trying to carve out a new undefined niche they are trying to grab a share of the existing market, they may not be trying to be number one but they are definately competing for fighters and fans.

by who me on Aug 14, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Thanks! I was wondering what the hell Carl’s Jr. was:) But in Michigan, if you need dirty late night fast food, it’s White Castle all the way…to the porcelain beast.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Aug 14, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve driven an hour and a half to eat at a White Castle before, you just can’t have your stomach abused like that by the standard fast food out there. Now they are a brand that intentionally limits their size and growth, they don’t even do franchising.

by who me on Aug 14, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

They survive on the tales of their survivors. It’s like a dare. I have also made the hour+ late night drive under difficult, ah…internal conditions and/or circumstances…which are generally exacerbated by the onion slip and slide.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Aug 14, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

White Castle on the East but out here in the West it’s Popeyes fried chicken or get the fuck out

we each must become like fishermen, and go out on to the dark ocean of mind, and let your nets down into that sea

by Barack Lesnar on Aug 14, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve had Popeyes. Devastating and delicious.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Aug 14, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Late night MLK Popeye runs get interesting when my rig is full of white people

we each must become like fishermen, and go out on to the dark ocean of mind, and let your nets down into that sea

by Barack Lesnar on Aug 14, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

God Bless Popeye’s

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 14, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought Popeyes was a Southern thing, I have one a mile from my house.

by who me on Aug 14, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s a urban thing

we each must become like fishermen, and go out on to the dark ocean of mind, and let your nets down into that sea

by Barack Lesnar on Aug 14, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's...

an explosive thing.

Contributor, NorthTexasFisticuffs.com
Follow me on Twitter

by Applejack McNeil on Aug 14, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

When you take the metaphor too literally it collapses

because MMA and fast food are completely different industries. While the latter is accepted and it’s growth is essentially stagnant, the former is socially taboo and yet rapidly expanding. While in fast food the consumer must make a choice between eating a big Carl and a Big Mac, MMA rarely has two events on the same day which would cannibalize the competition’s market. It’s just not an apt comparison when you take it further.

Lets face it, how many Strikeforce fighters does the UFC want as they are? Fedor is the big one, that’s obvious. Jake Shields already signed. Hendo got released. Nick Diaz is questionable, since he refuses to play the game. Robbie Lawler… maybe. Mayhem doesn’t want to be in the UFC and neither would Cung Le, since their business models don’t jive with each other. Overeem probably would prefer K-1 over an exclusive UFC deal. Jacare could be a good infusion to the MW division and Gilbert Melendez is a hot commodity as well. King Mo is still a prospect and Mousasi is 1-1 at his current weight. So that’s maybe 5-7 fighters compared to the UFC’s 250 man roster. Not a big deal. I just find it hard to buy the line that Strikeforce competes with the UFC in any substantive matter.

Going back to the fast food thing though, the WEC is clearly In and Out. Because the product is head and shoulders above the rest and yet doesn’t get the exposure that it deserves. God damn do I love 3×3s and bantamweight fights.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I’m with you on the WEC. The pound for pound most exciting promotion.

What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Aug 14, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

WEC is my favorite promotion just based on how much more exciting the fights are than anyone elses cards but I don’t see them having a long life due to them just being a placefiller promotion until the UFC frees up from being “exclusive” to SpikeTV.

The metaphor was pretty silly to start with but I just love me some Hardees (my wife hates Hardees so it’s a rare treat). Still all your points are right but it doesn’t really change the fact that they are in direct competition, particularly when it comes to Strikeforce wanting to expand into the PPV market (and Showtime is a PPV provider too, that is how they make their boxing money, I would have to bet they would love to tap that with MMA too. For them it’s not just about putting events on Showtime for free it’s about the real money being on PPV). You better believe that they are after market shares even if they aren’t on tv on the same nights currently.

by who me on Aug 14, 2010 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

In and Out burger is an almost exclusive California chain, I have never even seen one of their resturants more/less tried their food.

by who me on Aug 14, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

In and Out is the shit.

by John Nash on Aug 14, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Double-Double, animal style with fries and a vanilla shake. Twice a week, minimum.

Fighting is actually the best thing a man can have in his soul.

by fusion on Aug 14, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, and the habit too. Excellent. In fact, I’m gonna head to In’n’Out right now, there is one about 5 min from me.

Fighting is actually the best thing a man can have in his soul.

by fusion on Aug 14, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can you hear your arteries hardening when you lay in bed at night or is the TV too loud?

we each must become like fishermen, and go out on to the dark ocean of mind, and let your nets down into that sea

by Barack Lesnar on Aug 14, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope

Metabolism like a…. (something with a really fast metabolism here). 6’2" and 175. No medical issues of note. Also, and you may want to sit down for this…. I don’t have tv. Well, I have a tv, but no cable. Not even basic.

Fighting is actually the best thing a man can have in his soul.

by fusion on Aug 14, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hate your proximity to the deliciousness. Colorado ain’t that far away, you crazy Christian bastards

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 14, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

move. I have 6 within 20 min of me. Colorado is next I bet. They have already branched into Nevada, Arizona and Utah.

Fighting is actually the best thing a man can have in his soul.

by fusion on Aug 15, 2010 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

You and I are like some kind of weird polar opposites

I have the metabolism of a snail. I’m 6’2" and I work out obsessively, watch everything I eat… damn, I haven’t even touched more than a single fast food burger in about eight months. And I struggle like a post-vindaloo curry bowel movement just stay at 185lbs.

Also, I don’t have cable. My TV exists for watching the UK DVDs that won’t play on my laptop.

High-five, my skinny doppleganger.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Aug 15, 2010 4:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Non-cable watchers....

Unite! My problem at this is actually putting weight on. I just had surgery and didn’t lost any weight but as soon as I am all healed up, I’d like to go up to 190ish. Good luck!

Fighting is actually the best thing a man can have in his soul.

by fusion on Aug 15, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ugh garbage, the fries there are some of the worst I have ever had. Just don’t like the style.

Guillotine.

by iiowyn on Aug 15, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm with you man,

when you read the hate for strikeforce here on BE from a lot of the guys here, you get the impression that they are either zuffa executives or part owners of the ufc, when in fact, NONE OF THEM ARE; i’m a fan of mma, i’m a fan of dana white and the ufc, but that doesn’t mean i can’t appreciate a good show from strikeforce

by theblade on Aug 15, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also, how the hell does Antonio Silva make sense for Fedor? Are they going to give a “guys that lost to Werdum” belt?

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 14, 2010 5:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Most people aren’t kidding

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 14, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

love it. WAMMA World Heavyweight Championship.

If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?

by whardiek on Aug 14, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bigfoot makes perfect sense...

Both lost to Werdum, its a fight almost no one wants to see, even though several of us have been saying that would be Fedor’s next opponent even before his loss…

Most importantly, he is not Overeem whom Fedor will sadly never face…

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 14, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s a top HW you idiot.
That’s why it makes sense

by KOQ24 on Aug 14, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Top what? Ten? Not on your life.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 14, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

He might be a top-15 or top-20 guy

But the whole point is Fedor will not face the legitimate champion in Fedor’s division, at his org, who has been calling Fedor out, with nebulous “steroid bully” comments made as a reason for ducking the fight.

Of course, in the same breathe, Fink suggested that actual steroid violators Bigfoot Silva and Josh Barnett would be ideal opponents…

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 14, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Exactly.

Its pretty hilarious.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 14, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

let's examine

1. fedor doesn’t promote himself
2. he’s only popular with the hardcores
3. he demands more money than he is worth
4. his promotional company sucks to work with
5. he is no longer #1 in the world, losing his invincibility factor
6. he refuses certain matchups due to aforementioned promotional company
7. refer to point #4

Yup, they should cut ties with him.

Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down

by Austin Martin on Aug 14, 2010 5:53 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

You make a good point, or 6.

Hard core MMA fan since UFC 99

by ChiCubs23 on Aug 14, 2010 6:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

They would be foolish to cut ties with him, and that would be the end of Strikeforce as we know it. It’s ridiculous how a fighter suffers one loss in his entire career and everyone’s ready to get rid of him. If you applied the same logic to all fighters each promotion would only have a roster of about 2-5 fighters.

I think the fans (and Fedor) would rather see a Werdum rematch AND then fight Overeem for the title (assuming Fedor and Overeem win their fights). If Fedor and Overeem lose their fights, then they can still fight each other…though not for the title.

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think fans would rather not wait till 2011 to see Fedor vs Werdum and feel that he might as well fight Overeem now. How whould it be the end of Strikeforce as we know it if they cut Fedor? They existed for a long time without him and he’s only been on two Strikeforce cards.

by who me on Aug 15, 2010 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hence as “we know it”. They will go back to being more of a regional show. You do realize they signed Fedor to establish some more credibility, help lure in more fighters, and get a television deal?

I’m okay waiting till 2011 to see Fedor vs. Werdum; it’ll get here before you know it. It gives Strikeforce time to intelligently promote the rematch. Until then they can have Barnett, Kharitonov, Arlovski, Overeem, Silva, Cormier, and anyone else all fight each other.

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

They had the tv deal before the Fedor deal, they did use Fedor for their first CBS show but M-1 jerking them around probably made the second CBS show the last CBS show. They have ten major events and ten Challengers series cards since they signed with Showtime, Fedor has only fought on two of them. He’s a big star but he’s still just one fighter.

Most people aren’t ok with waiting another 4 to 6 to who knows how many months for another Fedor fight (it’s already been over 2 since the Werdum fight). So why not do another Fedor fight this fall with Overeem instead of just wasting time doing nothing? What is the point of Fedor sitting there doing nothing but getting older when he could be fighting?

by who me on Aug 15, 2010 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s no different than if he suffered another hand injury; he’d be sidelined for just as long or maybe even longer. I’d be all in for an Overeem vs. Barnett fight; Barnett has established himself as a top HW more so than Overeem. How about Antonio Silva vs Kharitonov? Strikeforce is mainly pressing for a Fedor vs. Overeem fight right now due to negotiating leverage. If it’s for the title they can have Fedor sign a “champions clause” and if it’s not for the title, then Fedor will have to re-sign with Strikeforce to avenge his loss to Werdum (assuming he beats Overeem). That’s all this really boils down to.

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes it would be like he broke his hand and was sidelined only he didn’t break his hand so he’s not sidelined with an injury he’s just sitting there just getting older and closer to the end of his career instead of fighting. I would rather see Fedor fight anyone now instead of waiting for Werdum, I rather they book Fedor vs Hershal Walker than Fedor sitting in his living room not fighting anyone. As for the other fights you mentioned, what does that have to do with Fedor fighting someone else in 2010. Overeem is the fight that makes the most sense but even if he fought someone who made less sense, or even someone who made no sense at all it would still be better than him sitting and waiting until Werdum is ready to fight again (a date no one has a clue when will be). Hell I don’t care if he ever avenges the loss to Werdum, that wasn’t a fight anyone cared about seeing to start with anyway, why would I want to see it twice?

by who me on Aug 15, 2010 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Overeem needs more fights in the HW division in my opinion. A fight with Barnett or Antonio Silva would be a real treat for fans. Hell, maybe both beat Overeem and Fedor will fight them instead. Other than Rogers, who has Overeem really beaten recently in the HW division that has been of any consequence? His sudden hype has been because of his new size and success in K-1; and this is coming from someone who has been an Overeem fan for years. I’d rather see a Fedor vs Werdum rematch and then a fight against Barnett, Overeem, or whoever Overeem fights next. It will only hype the fight even more. Results make fights. I don’t believe anyone cared too much for a Sonnen-Silva fight until he single handedly promoted the fight. Now most want an immediate rematch, and rightly so.

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

The problem is that this is the one time that SF actually has some degree of leverage in dealing with M-1 and their ability to hand-pick Fedor’s opponents due to the “perfect storm” of Fedor having lost and only having one fight remaining on his contract.

As such, this is the one opportunity they may have to make an Overeem – Fedor fight actually happen, because if it is up to M-1, it will never be allowed to happen.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 15, 2010 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Overeem is stuck in a situation not unlike where Machida was before (and is again) or Jon Jones is now in that absolutely no one of any stature in the division wants to fight them.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 15, 2010 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you about the leverage Strikeforce is trying to use against Fedor and M-1. I don’t think they’re avoiding Overeem because they fear him as a fighter, but rather more of the contract stipulations (having to re-sign if they wish to avenge a loss to Werdum). I love watching Overeem fight but he has shown a questionable chin at times (still an adequate one) and tends to look lost when a fighter takes the fight to him (same with Cro Cop and Arlovski).

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I should have better qualified some of my comments on this – I don’t think Fedor fears Overeem or any other fighter, but I think M-1 fears everyone who has a real, legitimate chance at beating Fedor.

Personally I think Fedor – Overeem would go much like Sonnen – Silva (details differing wildly of course) in that in would be a very one-sided fight, yet the fighter with the genius ring IQ and ability to be cool and keep thinking finds a way to win against an occasionally error-prone opponent.

I gave a lengthy diatribe about how I expected Sonnen-Silva to go and concluded with something along the lines of “but in the end, with no objective evidence, I expect Anderson to find a way to submit him, probably via choke.” I see this potential fight the same way – in the end, the heart of a true champion allows him to find a way…

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 15, 2010 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is Overeem overratted? Sure he is, he hasn’t done anything at heavyweight yet. Of course as I said I rather see Fedor fight anyone that sit on the sidelines for 6+ months not doing squat but getting older. There isn’t even any reason to talk about the Werdum fight for another 4 to 5 months, why not fight now and worry about that later. Yea if he’s trying to hang on to this one Strikeforce fight left then that could be an issue but hell sign an one fight extension then so he can fight now and fight Werdum later, the worst move of them all is for him to just sit on his ass doing nothing for 6+ months.

by who me on Aug 15, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fedor – Werdum was supposed to be a #1 contender fight, with the winner then fighting Overeem for the title. Unfortunately, like seems to happen all too often in SF, the “wrong” guy won and screwed up their imaginary PPV debut with Fedor – Overeem.

Barnett has certainly not established himself as a top HW moreso than Overeem, the only thing he has established is that he has to cheat to try to maintain an edge.

Unfortunately for us as fans, Fedor and/or his M-1 partners / handlers / cohorts have little interest in him fighting the best, they are simply trying to maximize profits – a completely rational and understandable motive.

Even before Overeem crushed Rogers, Fedor’s people began laying the groundwork for him not fighting alleged “steroid bully” Overeem, and instead fighting proven steroid users Barnett and/or Bigfoot, both of which are far more likely to be won by Fedor.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 15, 2010 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

No way

Since Strikeforce isn’t paying Emelianenko anything if he’s not fighting, why would they ever release him? If for no reason other than tying him up so its main competitor can’t get its hands on him, Strikeforce should never release Emelianenko. It’s not like his existence is costing Strikeforce money. Unless Strikeforce is paying Emelianenko money for not fighting, Rossen’s argument doesn’t make any sense. MMA fighters aren’t generally paid like baseball or basketball players, who can have exhorbitant salaries that remain the same whether they play or not. This is not a difficult decision for Strikeforce.

"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.

by The Darkness on Aug 14, 2010 5:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Because he’s fucking up their plans. They’re planning shows around him and his management’s messing it up.

...like young thieves in a glowing orchard, loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing.
- C. McCarthy

by crazybones on Aug 14, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Strikeforce can adjust for this by assuming that he’ll back out of every fight he agrees to and then suing him when he does. Unless M-1 is going to pay a hefty break up fee, I would never, even let them out of this contract. I would force Emelianenko to fight Overeem (or whomever) and if terms couldn’t be agreed he would never fight again. To the extent this threat is there, M-1 will start to behave better.

"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.

by The Darkness on Aug 14, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Surely there is a time component to the contract as well as the number of fights...

But I still maintain that if Fedor can’t fight Werdum as his last contracted fight, he will fight Bigfoot, then retire from the US market and rematch Werdum in DREAM.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 14, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

OR…..he gets “injured” in training and waits it out for a Werdum rematch. That fight promotes itself way more than Fedor vs. Overeem given the outcome.

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Except

Nobody really wanted to see that fight in the first place – it was supposed to be a one-sided domination, but Fedor made a foolish mistake and got caught.

Much like the first fight, the rematch is widely expected to be very one-sided, and this time I expect it will be…

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 15, 2010 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Their plans

They control that. Fedor brings cred, even when he’s not fighting.

█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z

by thetakeover on Aug 14, 2010 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

yoooooo

i have no clue… but… i do think he has guaranteed money in a business with little to guarantee… so, i’m thinking they have to save up a but to pay this guy… this is a big over-simplification… but i think money is tight with strikeforce… he has a big guarantee… they should ditch him… use that money for other guys… OR… i could be full of shit? But in the end, i don’t think he is worth the trouble… strikeforce will be better without this giant cost factor…

by sweye121 on Aug 14, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he and M-1 got a guarantee payment up front. If he’s continuing to get money whether he fights or not, then that’s an argument for letting him go. But Rossen never claimed this is so, and for his argument to work, he needs to assume something like this. Otherwise, SF is best off simply tying up Fedor if for no other reason so that the UFC doesn’t get him. (You could argue that if done in bad faith, that Fedor migh be able to break the contract, which is possible. You could also argue that simply tying up Fedor might have long term costs for SF by making fighters more wary of signing with SF, but I don’t buy that it would have a big effect, since all of the relatively big promotions including Dream, other than SF, have acted like pretty shady characters here and there, and have lived to promote another day. Rossen didn’t make either of these arguments though, so I don’t see how his argument works, but I could be missing something.)

"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.

by The Darkness on Aug 14, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I voted "yes" on the poll

But simply refusing to set up any fights with Emelianenko works just as well.

The benefit of cutting him loose is simple—now someone else is stuck with the Vadim problem.

by Lauren J Darkbloom on Aug 14, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

ha, that’s somewhat interesting. If M-1 is assumed to be a curse you wouldn’t wish on your worst enemy, then cutting him loose makes sense. If I were Coker, I would, in good faith, offer them a fight with Overeem, whcih they’d likely refuse, and then let Fedor rot until M-1 is ready to play ball. I’d also operate under the assumption that Fedor is completely unreliable and it should never be assumed that he’ll actually fight. The collateral damage is less if you prepare for the worst possible outcome. Managed properly, Fedor’s not fighting again costs you nothing more than cutting him loose and has the added benefit of denying his skills to another organization.

"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.

by The Darkness on Aug 14, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can they actually do this? I would think there’s something in the contract that prevents it. But if they can, that seems the best way to go about it.

I just want to see Fedor/Overeem.

...like young thieves in a glowing orchard, loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing.
- C. McCarthy

by crazybones on Aug 14, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

well as far as Vadim goes

I sincerely hope some rabid gerbils come along and gnaw off his testicles.

by Lauren J Darkbloom on Aug 14, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

It makes sense for Strikeforce

But I have a sinking feeling Fedor will just hang around Japan fighting guys like Sokoudjou and Melvin Manhoef for the rest of his career. Sigh. What could have been…

...like young thieves in a glowing orchard, loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing.
- C. McCarthy

by crazybones on Aug 14, 2010 5:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Do people usually make stupid comments like this when it comes to projections?

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I say drop him. I don’t think he wants to fight Overeem.

Put his ass on a treadmill and have him fight at 205 in the UFC.

When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton

by donkeypunch on Aug 14, 2010 5:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Or he could just finish his career doing freakshows in Japan which is what I think he’ll be doing in the next couple years.

When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton

by donkeypunch on Aug 14, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

“I think”…that’s where you went wrong my friend.

A Werdum rematch makes the most sense and nobody is ducking anybody. It makes sense for the most dominant MMA HW of all time to drop to 205 because he lost 1 fight. I sometimes wonder if this idiotic reasoning is rooted in the Sherdog forums. This definitely sounds like something a Sherdog poster would say….or at least one of the trolls.

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

You seem to be hung up on this Werdum rematch that just isn’t really that popular of an idea, particularly since Werdum is out till 2011. It makes it funny when you get all worked up at other posters with the rude comments but honestly who wants Fedor to wait to 2011 to fight Werdum for his next fight?

by who me on Aug 15, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

It makes the most sense and I comment on the stupid.

There was already so much press post Werdum fight, that a rematch makes the most sense in terms of a fight and financially. The Strikeforce title lost all credibility when Strikeforce didn’t strip Overeem and then let Rogers fight him for the title. You have Fedor and Werdum fight next year, and Overeem fight Barnett or Antonio Silva. You can then have your Fedor vs. Overeem match if both win or both lose.

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

The cut to 205 comment has to do with the huge fucking tire around his waist. And like a lot of other fans, I enjoy shitting on Fedor because of the career path he chose post Pride. Enjoy swinging from the Fedors nuts. Sherdog my ass.

When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton

by donkeypunch on Aug 15, 2010 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

That sounded like a Sherdog response…verbatim.

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

They don't like Fedor over there?

I wouldn’t know – never posted there.

When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton

by donkeypunch on Aug 15, 2010 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not so much the subject matter, but more of the rationale used. It makes you wonder if anyone can actually think for themselves.

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Look, I used to be a Fedor fan and acknowledge he is one of the greatest fighters ever. All this Fedor + M/1 shit has been tiring and if he isn’t winning, he definitely doesn’t have a personality to fall back on.

When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton

by donkeypunch on Aug 15, 2010 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know about other people but I watch fights for the fights themselves, not how charismatic a fighter is.

Whenever there is a fighter on a card who is a threat standing or on the ground, and is always looking to engage…you better believe I’m going to watch that fight.

M-1/Fedor know what they are worth and what they want. It’s no different from how the UFC conducts its business; both play hardball.

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

unsure

Idk, I think he’d fight Ubereem. But really i think he wants to fight Werdum again. REMATCH, REMATCH!

by phillynix on Aug 14, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Fedor and SF deserve each other at this point, not to mention the fact that I believe that unless Fedor and Vadim were to get on their knees and beg Dana for a job the UFC is done with them.

"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/

by Nightwhistler on Aug 14, 2010 6:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Dana will definitely sign Fedor if the price is right. I don’t think M-1 will be reasonable about that, but whatever. I’d like to see Fedor in the UFC just to see what Dana says about him on the Countdown show.

“He’s a fucking machine, this guy was invincible for ten fucking years…”

...like young thieves in a glowing orchard, loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing.
- C. McCarthy

by crazybones on Aug 14, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s that whole “if the price is right” part that’s the stumbling block. The price will never be right. When he was worth way more than he is now, M-1 was demanding waaaaay too much for Fedor’s services. They’ll keep demanding the same thing now, even though his stock has fallen. They’ve pretty well shown that they’re damn near impossible to negotiate with unless you put yourself over a barrel.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Aug 14, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because he has lost so much of his luster now

The UFC really has no incentive to sign him…he would either sign a standard Shields type deal (with some extra $$$ and maybe some M-1 decals in the cage), or he will not sign at all.

Given Dana’s apparent vindictive streak, I could easily see him low-balling M-1, telling them to take it or leave, and actually mean it…

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 14, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s going to probably fight for DREAM on the NYE card and leave MMA for politics. Is Cro Cop still available?

we each must become like fishermen, and go out on to the dark ocean of mind, and let your nets down into that sea

by Barack Lesnar on Aug 14, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Although he doesn't generally have a quick turn-around time,

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 14, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's try this again

Although he doesn’t generally have a quick turn-around time between fights, I would still not be at all surprised if he fights Bigfoot soon in SF, then rematches Werdum on NYE in DREAM.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 14, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Low balling M1 at this point...

would not be a vindictive act, but like all things misunderstood about Dana, a smart business move.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 14, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

In the abstract perhaps they are smart business moves,

And ones I would like to think I would make in his shoes, but things like the Fitch issue, the Huerta issue, Rampage’s A-Team issue and the like give him an “apparent vindictive streak” as do his treatment/credentialling of media policies among other things…

Having said all of that, I certainly agree he should come in low with Fedor/M-1, but I would be in favor of him making a fair deal period, even if he can’t get a below-market deal.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 14, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll give you the Fitch issue, that was a pure power play...

but Huerta and Rampage.

Huerta made all the decision there, that we know of.

And Rampage…while I don’t like exactly how Dana reacted, he had VERY good reasons for being pissed at Rampage. The UFC and Dana stood by him when he got in trouble. Then the man agreed to a fight, was put on a show to build as much hype as possible and make him as much money as possible which he then pulled out of when the company needed him badly (remember the bad luck streak they were on with main events and injuries at the time) because he wanted to film a movie.

Dana was very justified in being pissed at Rampage, in my opinion.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 14, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Can't really argue with you about Rampage

You’re spot on there…apparently (from reading comments here) the Huerta deal was a bit different than I recalled, so I’ll have to withdraw that one…

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 15, 2010 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

The UFC has no incentive to sign him? Apparently the UFC is not in the business of singing top fighters anymore. If there is no incentive to sign him, then they better cut 3/4 of their roster because what the hell are they doing there.

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I should have put that as they have no incentive to go so far above and beyond anymore, not that the luster is gone. Fedor is still a great fighter, but no longer worth the all of the “above and beyonds” he was offered previously when they already have the #1 and 4 of the 5 best HWs there…

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 15, 2010 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

If the UFC offers Fedor a contract now it will just be a contract, I doubt they will jump through the M-1 hoops and agree to all that other stuff at this point. Fedor was never going to the UFC anyway, M-1Global gets more out of him fightingin the smaller organizations that they have leverage over. It’s never just been about what is right for Fedor it’s about what helps his company the most.

by who me on Aug 15, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

"Dana will definitely sign Fedor if the price is right"

wow this is a ridiculous statement. Stating something will definitely happen by adding a condition that will never happen

by Nikolai_ on Aug 14, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

"the Fedor experiment has hardly been a great success for Strikeforce"

This should read: the Fedor experiment has hardly been a great success for ANYONE NOT PRIDE.

There is a growing and bloody trail of promotional bodies in the wake of Fedor and M1. Strikeforce should cut ties to avoid joining that group.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 14, 2010 6:17 PM EDT reply actions  

lolol

Fedor is pretty enigmatic, yeah. But honestly as an MMA fan and a Fedor fan, I hope Strikeforce keeps him, at least for a couple more fights.

by QuickJack on Aug 14, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

RINGS made out okay...

Ba-dum-bum.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Aug 15, 2010 4:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

the question that needs to be answered before Nate’s question, is “can strikeforce fire Fedor.”

Now Vadim is a fight promoter, so he is, by definition, full of shit, but they wasted a lot of air complaining about how terrible zuffa is because they can fire you at any point. That plus the ongoing M1/Affliction lawsuit leads me to believe that getting rid of fedor is not the easiest thing.

If they can sign Fedor to a reasonable contract, like, no renegotiation, no paying M1 for consulting, no other assorted bullshit, the same contract Werdum has but with different numbers, they should do it. If they can’t, playing M1’s games needs to come to an end.

by Phildo on Aug 14, 2010 6:20 PM EDT reply actions  

that’s why Vadim didnt want payment based on ppv because that money comes in phases which kind of limits their shenanigans… it’s hard to renegotiate and hold your “partner” hostage when you’re still waiting to get paid.

by mmalogic on Aug 14, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

No. It’s the same thing in sports when you negotiate for a guaranteed contract; you want the money up front. Money based on PPV sales is purely a projection and there is no guaranteed amount. It’s just smart business.

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

bit too late to right the ship… the iceberg has already hit and Vadim and Coker are locked in a bear hug on top of the titanic.

Vadim is now trying to scare Zuffa into coming back to the table with all this “4-6 more fights” talk. It’s not gonna work… that ship has sailed.

The clock is ticking for Strikeforce and they need something to happen within 12 months…
Bellator is on a similar schedule before complete self destruction. They both need something to happen to secure new funding or renewed committment from their current backers.

At this point Bellator is at least worth something as they have better talent, better contracts and if an outside group is interested – Bellator has more of a unique product/position in the market place. Strikeforce is just a cheap and shitty gimmick version of the UFC… they cant even make their own fighters fight each other.

by mmalogic on Aug 14, 2010 6:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Because the clear number 1 contender in the UFC

has said over and over that he’ll fight his team-mate Josh Koscheck for the title if he wins it. Right.

And Anderson vs. Lyoto superfight got made, or was at least getting booked until it lost it’s luster. We sure got that fight that we wanted to see.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

The UFC has deep enough divisions that they don't NEED those fights

Would we like to see them? Sure. But I’m just as content with Rampage vs. Lyoto and Anderson vs. Chael, which are the fights we’re given. They have options. SF waits to book fights until a month before, and doesn’t sell fights to the fans, they present it as their best possible option, so please watch it if you support MMA and don’t want to see us die blah blah blah. Strikeforce came in strong, but Coker is too weak a personality to run it. simple as that.

Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down

by Austin Martin on Aug 14, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Because we need Vince McMahon to sell MMA

while we also petition for it to be considered a legitimate sport. Got it. Personality.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope, we need someone with a strong personality to give us the positives of a matchup, instead of Coker who seems to question his own decisions. Just because you seem pissed off doesn’t mean you’re right.

MMA is now a matchup sport, different than any other sport because of that fact. And thus, you need a strong personality to sell the matchup. Dana White does this, and Coker doesn’t.

Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down

by Austin Martin on Aug 14, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

The two situations aren’t even comparable.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 14, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re comparing teammates not wanting to fight each other to fedor not wanting to fight overeem or Cung Le not wanting to fight Lawler or Nick Diaz not wanting to fight Jay Heiron? Please…

by mmalogic on Aug 14, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or more like Toney not fighting Kimbo

or Kimbo not fighting almost any of the fights they offered him. Controlling celebrities is a problem.

And Fedor hadn’t been offered the Overeem fight yet, that was meant for a year end PPV. Which was a stupid fucking idea and they got bit for it.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

What fights...

Did Kimbo turn down?

Contributor, NorthTexasFisticuffs.com
Follow me on Twitter

by Applejack McNeil on Aug 14, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anything at 205

and a few heavyweights, I forget who though. It was well documented, I’m too lazy to google it since I’m posting in between cooking right now.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 14, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I couldn't...

Find anything that said he turned down HW fights. LHW fights are somewhat of a different matter as that constitutes a permanent weight cut. I can understand Kimbo, at his age, with his limited MMA experience, not wanting to do that.

Contributor, NorthTexasFisticuffs.com
Follow me on Twitter

by Applejack McNeil on Aug 14, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, and… they kinda cut Kimbo. Let’s see: big draw, undersized heavyweight, wouldn’t take the fights he was offered, now cut.

A parallel?

(I’m kidding obviously; Kimbo and Fedor couldn’t be more different. It’s just funny to me.)

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Aug 15, 2010 4:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wait, what is this 12 months shit? Did you just pull that number completely out of your ass?

...like young thieves in a glowing orchard, loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing.
- C. McCarthy

by crazybones on Aug 14, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know anything specifically about the MMA business

But I know a little bit about business in general. And I don’t understand this stuff about Strikeforce needing to have something happen in 12 months.

Why? Who besides Fedor and maybe Dan Henderson do they have who costs any money? Do they have some massive debt they absolutely must pay off in the next 12 months?

Their last couple of challengers cards, in my view, have been great. The Kaufman slam was great PR, two out of three fights in the women’s mini-tourney were quite good, and Ryan Couture delivered. Especially in women’s mma SF seems to be doing a better job of developing fighters and bringing them some recognition.

Of course, I always watch Strikeforce shows with the sound turned off so maybe that helps.

by Lauren J Darkbloom on Aug 14, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

They’re TV deal is coming up and in around 12 months Showtime will have to make a decision whether to continue with this experiment or not. Strikeforce needs to display something within 12 months to secure that deal or at least buy more time.

Showtime is a premium channel. They cant get away with having 2nd tier content compared to free basic cable channels like Spike and Versus. They cant be competing with FSN… they need to compete with HBO.

When the ratings comparisons between Spike and Showtime come out the Board isnt saying “well spike is available in more homes” the board is asking: “why the fuck are we being compared to spike tv”?

Ken Hershman has a side deal with Strikeforce but there’s only so much of shareholder money you can use for your personal pet projects before people start asking questions.

by mmalogic on Aug 14, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Their deal ends in February of 2012, so it is closer to 17 months. Right now I am actually guessing they continue. While the ratings have looked less than spectacular it, the numbers from the Challengers cards suggest that they are delivering a sizeable (250,000 +) paying mma audience. At only $8 mil a year I think Showtime stays in the game.

Doesn’t mean they won’t jump ship to another promotion. Bellator has got to be hanging on hoping for that lifeline.

by John Nash on Aug 14, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

The deal ends around 17 months but Showtime will decide within the next 12 months.

They wont jump ship to another promotion… before they were playing with pro-elite money, now they’re playing with their own shareholder money. Unless outside capital shows up Showtime will most likely get out of the mma business as it doesnt fit their premium channel business model.

They need an either ppv, ea mma, or network TV hit within 12 months. They fucked up with the second CBS show… those opportunities are far and few between and the only likely scenario of them staying afloat would have been garnering a more robust network TV deal.

They should have done everything in their power to keep Gina and all else should have been secondary. They should have used hendo and fedor money to make Gina a life long slave and built everything else around that.

by mmalogic on Aug 14, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok now this starts to make sense

So is Showtime actually financing Strikeforce? Or is it just that Strikeforce gets a time slot that Showtime might be better off giving to someone else?

Because it seems to me that before signing Fedor, Strikeforce was doing a pretty good job of building a brand of MMA that was not inferior to the UFC, but was different. Their brand was exemplified by Cung Le—you know, it’s even in the name—Strike Force.

And it seems like that brand, combined with (admittedly) the novelty of women’s mma, if combined with a reputation for exciting fights, would be valuable. The general growth of mma, caused largely by the UFC, would still help Strikeforce.

It was only after signing Fedor that Strikeforce started to be like UFC Jr.

If Showtime doesn’t work out, it’s still not clear to me why there wouldn’t be someone else who would be interested in the experiment, but, like I said, I have no specific knowledge of the mma business.

by Lauren J Darkbloom on Aug 14, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Strikeforce is a proxy. people get on Coker for signing Fedor and stepping up to the UFC in the first place but in his defense Showtime doesnt want to be in the MMA business unless they can compete with the UFC.

Unfortunately they couldnt and if they cant figure out how within 12 months it’s toast… kudos for their effort though.

That’s why they have to keep Fedor… this is the last stretch and even though he’s trouble and they have to throw as much shit on the wall as they can and pray that something sticks… cant really turn back now.

by mmalogic on Aug 14, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

people get on Coker for signing Fedor and stepping up to the UFC in the first place but in his defense Showtime doesnt want to be in the MMA business unless they can compete with the UFC.

You know logic, you drive me absolutely nuts sometimes, but this is spot on. Coker and Strikeforce are in a complete Catch-22. Their biggest business partners have visions of them supplanting or at least equalling the UFC, but until Strikeforce DOES, those partners won’t fully commit, leaving Strikeforce perpetually twirling in the wind. In all honest, I don’t want Strikeforce to fail; shit, they have some good fights and a couple of people I know fight for them. That’s my friends’ livelihoods that are on the line, not just Coker’s reputation or Strikeforce’s brand. But they’ve backed themseves into a corner with a couple of dumb business decisions.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Aug 15, 2010 4:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I see

So basically, some people at Showtime must have looked at Dana White and said, “Oh my God, look at this crack-pot. If he can do it, we can too.”

But they couldn’t.

So now, Showtime/Strikeforce (who the heck actually owns Strikeforce?) is just trying a bunch of stuff since the original goal gets farther and farther out of reach. Of course, the problem is that in order for any of the stuff they’re trying to actually work, they’d need to really put everything they have into one major idea. And they can’t afford to do that.

I’ve seen this sort of thing before. With the benefit of hindsight, you are probably right—it would have been best to use Gina Carano to corner female mma. Then they would have been the legitimate premier organization for something, anyway.

So the options now are:

1. Hope Fedor “comes through” somehow.
2. Hope that some washed up former pro-wrestlers can sell a ppv.
3. Put together an awesome card (with who though?) for the next CBS show and convince CBS to stick around.
4. Try to build up their women’s division into something really valuable, since at least the UFC isn’t competition in this realm.

Well, I’m glad I don’t have to make these kinds of decisions.

by Lauren J Darkbloom on Aug 15, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Flaw With Gina

is she wasn’t the best. If she was the best you could have built a corner stone around her. She wasn’t, Cyborg is. The thing to do now is find someone marketable who could beat Cyborg that isn’t male.

by memitim on Aug 15, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will never not rec this gif. Rogan in the background kills me.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Aug 15, 2010 4:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Unbeatable linear-HW champ Fedor was worth the headache, I just lost my last fight Fedor isn’t. SF can keep him or he can go back to fighting freak shows in Japan, Zuffa no longer wants to deal with his mile long list of demands and I don’t blame them.

by ufc4 on Aug 14, 2010 6:30 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

“I just lost A fight”. It’s hard to believe losing one fight in ten years means you’re not worth the investment. Too many people here have tunnel vision and become a prisoner of the moment.

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s not as if people are saying he’s not a great fighter still, or that we wouldn’t be excited to watch him. It’s that Strikeforce was paying through the nose to get the Fedor “aura”, since that’s what they marketed to try and draw in a larger fan base. People who have been watching for a long time understand that losses happen – GSP has lost, Couture has lost a TON, everyone loses if they compete long enough – but in terms of marketability WEIGHED AGAINST what a fighter costs an organization, that one loss changes the equation because it changes the marketability without changing the cost.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Aug 15, 2010 4:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fedor, the figher is worth some sort of investment. Fedor, coming off a very quick loss is not worth the same investment Strikeforce was putting in before the fight.

The loss isn’t the main reason he isn’t worth it, the Fedor situation is not workable for fight promotions the way it was. The loss gives Strikeforce the leverage to get out. Fedor shouldn’t get rid of Fedor no matter what, but the should stop playing the m1 games. They aren’t worth it with the loss, they weren’t worth it before the loss. The “undefeated” record and previous aura gave people an excuse to try to make that work, they tried, it didn’t work, the aura is gone, things should change.

by Phildo on Aug 15, 2010 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s hard to believe losing one fight in ten years means you’re not worth the investment.

Well believe it. The whole Fedor mystique was about the aura of invincibility he brought with him to the ring (cage). That is gone now. The guy isn’t a huge draw, he doesn’t speak english (yes, that affects his marketability), and he’s almost 34 years old now. Add all those things up with the fact that he’s no longer considered unbeatable and he’s no longer worth the headaches of dealing with M-1 Global. Is he still a great fighter? Of course, but there are a lot of great fighters not in the UFC and none of them are as notoriously difficult to work with as Fedor and Associates.

by ufc4 on Aug 15, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

What are you basing this on? Fedor hasn’t even fought since the loss, so we can’t really say that he’ll be significantly less of a draw. It’s just speculation. Plenty of other fighters have lost and remained draws.

by Amor on Aug 15, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its not like he was a record breaking draw before the loss.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 15, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly. Fedor has never been a draw so now after he loses he will be? It doesn’t work that way.

by ufc4 on Aug 16, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think he’d end up at the UFC even if they did cut him… I’d expect he would pop up at Dream or Shark Fights instead tbh

by brad23 on Aug 14, 2010 6:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Jake Rossen should...

stick to writing feature pieces. This character or whatever he plays up in his blog articles is beyond stale. Honestly, the whole idea of the ‘media’ trying to make business decisions for these promotions is a huge snore for me.

by zY on Aug 14, 2010 6:54 PM EDT reply actions  

ha

It is fun to play CEO, but Rossen’s attempt to do so is particularly amateurish. My guess is that most MMA editorialists are not McKinsey alums. My theory is that he reads sites like this, gets a feel for the consensus on an issue and then craps out some piece that rehashes the consensus, with some feeble supporting arguments thrown in for good measure.

"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
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"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.

by The Darkness on Aug 14, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

fedor will not go to the ufc

they dont care anymore, ive come to the conclusion that dana will never hire him he has the #1 heavyweight a bunch of young fresh contenders and no need for the greatest fighter in mma history

it’d be nice but i highly doubt it ever happening

We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!

by milk72 on Aug 14, 2010 7:01 PM EDT reply actions  

right

I agree, I can’t ever see Fedor going to the UFC. Not only does he lose control over his “brand”, but he’d also lose the opportunity to rematch Werdum, which I’m sure he’s itching for.

by MBeamer32 on Aug 14, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's time

For Strikeforce and M-1 to part ways as their arrangment doesn’t really benefit either of them. I’m not really sure what to do with Fedor other then say that he should go back to the Japanese or European market, as there is really no where profitable for him to go here in North America.

Fighting is actually the best thing a man can have in his soul.

by fusion on Aug 14, 2010 7:05 PM EDT reply actions  

There is no European market :)

by Horselover Fat on Aug 14, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

?

Pretty sure most countries in Europe have some orgs in them at this point. Hell, M-1 is based in Russia. It just makes sense. His career and status are deteriorating. His home market or Japan is the best place for him to make money and continue building his “legacy.” Basically, go back to what he was doing before Affliction/Strikeforce.

Fighting is actually the best thing a man can have in his soul.

by fusion on Aug 14, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are orgs in Europe but there isn’t any real money behind them. Fedor fighting for M-1 in Russia would be like him fighting on a King of the Cage card here, the sport is just not that developed over there yet. As far as Japan goes, I think Fedor would love to fight more in Japan but there just isn’t enough money or available talent for him to fight regularly there. The focus of the entire sport has centered around the Western US currently, between Strikeforce’s home in San Jose and Zuffa’s home in Vegas that is where all the money is in the sport.

by who me on Aug 14, 2010 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lack of talent...

… is not a problem for Fedor. He doesn’t seem all that interested in fighting the best talent out there. If the US is the only place “where it’s at”…. Fedor is screwed and might as well retire. Otherwise, stay with Strikeforce fighting fights that nobody wants to see and slowly sucking the life life out of the league with his huge paychecks and M-1 co-promotion agreement. Even if he went to Japan, his reputation is damaged now and he won’t command the crowds or purses like he used to.

Fighting is actually the best thing a man can have in his soul.

by fusion on Aug 14, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

People need to seriously quit with the “doesn’t seem all that interested in fighting the best talent out there”; it is seriously misguided and asinine.

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just call em like I see em. I’m not making any accusations regarding his motivation or intentions, or even making any assumptions about how much he gets to decide on his own versus being an Vadim puppet. What I am saying though is that, since fighting CroCop in 2005, for whatever reason, he hasn’t fought and isn’t fighting top competition. Either Fedor, or his controllers are clearly hand picking the fights with a goal in mind that, while not being self-evident, has surmounting evidence for the “Fedor won’t fight the best” camp. He’s not ducking, per se, but either he or M-1 is just taking some liberties with their position of influence.

Fighting is actually the best thing a man can have in his soul.

by fusion on Aug 15, 2010 3:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lack of talent is, if anything, a plus for Fedor

And if actual money were the motivating factor (as opposed to M-1 imagining they will ride Fedor to become a major promotion), Fedor would have signed originally with the UFC instead of SF.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 14, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I live in Europe (Sweden), and trust me there are no big enough promotions here to be anywhere close to affording Fedor. North America or Japan is his only options, unless some kind of bigshot promotion pops up over night and snatches him (very unlikely).

by Horselover Fat on Aug 14, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are they any promotions in Sweden at all? Any notable fighters? Is MMA popular there? Just curious….

Fighting is actually the best thing a man can have in his soul.

by fusion on Aug 15, 2010 3:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

There are a few smaller promotions doing a couple of shows a year with mainly Swedish fighters, and then there’s the larger Rumble of the Kings events
which usually have some high-level K-1 and Muay Thai bouts, but also a few MMA matches thrown in. Here’s a link if you want to check out how the upcoming November event is shaping up so far (I’ll be going to that one).

The numbered UFC events are shown live (at 4-7 in the night usually) on a cable sports channel, also replayed at various times, and the same channel also shows TUF with a weeks delay from when they air in the US. To my knowledge there is no way to see Strikeforce, DREAM, Sengoku etc, without the use of the internet (I download events from torrent sites after they’ve aired).
MMA is slowly becoming more and more popular among mostly young males, but it’s nowhere near the level of the US.

Right now we only have one fighter in one of the major orgs, which is Alexander Gustafsson who fights in the UFC LHW division. He’s a young guy with a bright future ahead of him I think (fun fact: we grew up in the same small town and have several common friends, never met him though). Before him you’d might remember lightweights David Bielkheden and Per Eklund who both had three fights each in the UFC, going 1-2 before being released. Other than those there are no big stars right now, but we have several pro-fighters on the European circuit, and the MMA scene is growing, so who knows what the future will hold.

by Horselover Fat on Aug 15, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cool. Thanks for the link and the info. I have heard the names Gustafsson and Eklund before. I will have to look up Bielkheden. You should find a way to train with Gustafsson….

Fighting is actually the best thing a man can have in his soul.

by fusion on Aug 15, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, no problem man! Gustafsson beat Jared Hamman by first round KO his first fight in the UFC, lost by submission in his second to Phil Davis in Abu-dhabi. He’s scheduled to fight fellow striker Cyril Diabate at UFC 120 in London, should be fireworks! Haha don’t know about the training, I think he’s better off with the big guys. We don’t live in the same cities anymore either, both of us were smart enough to move out of that shithole. I’ve only just started doing Muay Thai recently for fun, might move on to MMA later on, we’ll see.

by Horselover Fat on Aug 15, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Id like to see Fedor in a Bellator tourney. He could bring some viewers and run through every HW they have to gain back some of his mystique. Im not sure Fedor can beat any of the top HWs in the UFC anymore, they’re all to young, fast and well rounded.

Are our bones not dust?
Is our Blood not Poison?
On my knees in the black light
Praying for Salvation, bitter Redemption
So throw your dice and cast your shadow
You may look away
But your children will not...

by ProfessorBLove on Aug 14, 2010 7:08 PM EDT reply actions  

If Fedor doesn’t like the UFC’s contracts why would he sign with Bellator? They copied the UFC’s contracts didnt they?

by brad23 on Aug 14, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

A majority of the HWs in the UFC are one dimensional fighters. You either have great wrestlers with sloppy standup or great strikers with a horrible ground game. I think he would do quite well. He made a mistake a and lost via submission to a world grappling champion; I don’t see how this translates to a potential fight with JDS, Cain, Lesnar, or Carwin.

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fedor can come to the UFC and fight Roy Nelson.

War Nelson!

Fedor doesnt bother me as much as his garbage management, Strikeforce should fire him just to get rid of M1. But who knows what kind of stupid contract they have signed with M1.

by DirtyML on Aug 14, 2010 7:23 PM EDT reply actions  

The Battle of the Bulge.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Aug 15, 2010 4:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fedor should stay in Strikeforce

Right now I’d love to see Fedor stay in Strikeforce. How could he, the greatest MMA fighter of all time, leave without at least a rematch against the one man to truly beat him? (Werdum). I really want to see that fight, to see Fedor redeem himself at least. And if not Werdum, SF has a good stable of HWs like Ubereem for him to go up against

by RoeNoMo on Aug 14, 2010 7:52 PM EDT reply actions  

It does seem like Strikeforce could take the time and money they are spending on Fedor and use it to develop like, 2-4 quality prospects and mid-tier fighters, instead. Maybe beef up their female divisions or something.

by Rainer Lee on Aug 14, 2010 9:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Fedor will never fight in the UFC

For whatever reason, his management team is committed to keeping him out of the UFC. If he is too costly for Strikeforce to employ, then he’ll be a journeyman like Tim Sylvia or he’ll retire.

"You stick a microphone in a guy's face and he calls out anybody but the champion, and Joe Silva should fax him a pink slip right then." -- Chael Sonnen.

by IKilled007 on Aug 14, 2010 9:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Wishful thinking

Neither Strikeforce nor Fedor would benefit. The only benefit would be to UFC. Therefore, it won’t happen.

█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z

by thetakeover on Aug 14, 2010 9:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Do I think that Strikeforce should give up on Fedor? No. Do I think that Strikeforce should use their current leverage to get out of “co-promoting” with M-1 Global? Hell yes. It’s not Fedor that’s the Albatross here it’s all the baggage that comes with him. If Strikeforce could get him signed as just a fighter instead of some kind of off the wall co-promotional entanglement then he would be a real asset for their company, even at his current price. Fedor is still one of the greatest fighters this sport has ever seen but Strikeforce just needs to get rid of all the distractions and overhead expense that comes with working with M-1.

by who me on Aug 14, 2010 9:32 PM EDT reply actions  

At this point in time Strikeforce has the leverage to make that attempt, give him his one remaining fight and then just offer them a take it or leave it straight contract, they don’t have much choice but to take it or for him to retire.

by who me on Aug 14, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

and i completely agree

that’s what they need to do and stop fooling around with these guys.

by HitokiriX on Aug 14, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

…or have him fight Werdum again.

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fedor will never, ever, ever fight in the UFC. He lost to Werdum, and his management is going to want to risk what’s left of his (admittedly still formidable) image against Brock? Never.

by gzl5000 on Aug 14, 2010 10:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Jake Rossen is a tool.

Fedor is still a Top HW and belongs in one Ring/Cage with Top HWs.
There’s only 2 places where he can do that,SF or the UFC

by KOQ24 on Aug 14, 2010 11:11 PM EDT reply actions  

What makes you think the UFC wants that headache?

Fedor comes with a lot of bullshit. UFC was smart enough to avoid it before, why would they want it now that he’s worth even less than he was before?

by simpsycho on Aug 15, 2010 12:06 AM EDT reply actions  

Hilarious

UFC was smart enough to avoid it be before? Really? Avoid it? Cue Dana White: “Fedor [Emelianenko] has become my obsession. I want it worse than the fans want it.” That was in April. Now, Dana can be as coy as he wants after Fedor lost to Werdum but if Fedor avenges that loss and Brock beats Cain and JDS. What is going to be a bigger fight Dana can put on? Brock in a rematch against any one of those guys or Brock vs Fedor. Please.

by memitim on Aug 15, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

If they didn't avoid it, Fedor would be in the UFC

And Dana would be dealing with Fedor’s management instead of Scott Coker. I sure Dana still wants Fedor more than he’s wanted any other fighter but he doesn’t want the bullshit that comes with him. And now that he’s lost, he’s not any more likely to agree with that bullshit.

I agree that Fedor/Lesnar would still be a huge fight and I’m sure they still want to put it on but no matter who Fedor beats, the UFC still won’t put up with his demands. Fedor was worth the absolute most he ever will be before the Werdum fight, if they weren’t willing to agree to his demands then, there is nothing Fedor can do to make the UFC agree to them now.

by simpsycho on Aug 15, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rossen has proven to be an idiot time and time again. Personally, I think a rematch between Barnett and Werdum makes the most sense. I’d love to see a Fedor-Barnett match, but only after the rematch with Werdum.

by Stroma on Aug 15, 2010 12:47 AM EDT reply actions  

fedor , nog, cropcop = bumfights

bbhaha..i got news for y’all dana white says he wouldn’t take fedor now on a bet!!..so the answer is no!.. the ufc doesn’t want him. sf can have him!! .and no-one will want the bum..him and fucking big nog and crocop should start their own bum fights league, and kid nate is a fucking troll !!…* cage stokerifithd

STOKER MAC

by STOKER on Aug 15, 2010 1:36 AM EDT reply actions  

“Flaming dog poo and the human response……”

"Jesus, did somebody dip a baby in jalepenos?" - My Girlfriend

by Earl Montclair on Aug 15, 2010 3:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Translation

I find you humorous. So much so that you caused me to laugh. Also, I have news for all of you. Dana White said he no longer desires to sign Fedor. Not even in the context of a wager. So, in answer to your question about whether or not Strikforce should fire Fedor, I do not believe they should. As previously stated, the UFC no longer desires to sign Fedor. Strikeforce can continue to keep him on their roster of acclaimed heavyweights. I really do not think that any other organizations will want him either because he lost a fight and might be seen as a “bum” in the eyes of some fans. I have a great idea. Big Nog, CroCop and Fedor should start their own promotion for themselves and others who’s careers may be coming to an end in light of younger, bigger, faster, stronger competitors. I almost forgot, Kid Nate is a fucking troll. Thank you for your time. Sincerely, Cage Stoker

Fighting is actually the best thing a man can have in his soul.

by fusion on Aug 15, 2010 4:18 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Delusional

Dana is obsessed with Fedor. He said so emphatically this past April. Don’t for a second think a loss to Werdum changes that. If Brock beats Cain and JDS the best fight Dana can put on is Fedor v Brock. Especially now that Carwin is wrapped up in steroid drama.

by memitim on Aug 15, 2010 2:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I was translating Stoker’s post above mine. Personally, I think Dana would still sign Fedor, just now the power is on his side and would never offer him a deal like he did before. If Fedor gets painted into a corner by Strikeforce and he truly wants to stay fighting in the US, he will have to take whatever deal Zuffa offers him.

Fighting is actually the best thing a man can have in his soul.

by fusion on Aug 15, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

For The Big Fight

Fedor would hold plenty of cards. He could easily go to Dream and fight all the HW’s he would in SF and then some. Brock v Fedor is a mega fight, especially if Fedor avenges against Werdum and Brock beats Cain and JDS. It will take two to tango and while M-1 will never get their co-promotion deal the paycheck will be hefty.

by memitim on Aug 15, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

But dana doesn’t need to, and won’t bend over backwards to make it happen anymore.

Despite all the shit that dana spews, he wanted fedor to fight because people thought he was the best. People don’t think he’s the best anymore, there is no reason for zuffa (or SF for that matter) to entertain any thoughts of co-promotion, renegotiations after every fight, or any of that nonsense. Fedor is a good fighter, but he no longer brings enough to the table to be treated differently from anyone else.

They also don’t really have to worry about fedor beating werdum, because it would be silly for SF to do that fight without locking Fedor up long term.

by Phildo on Aug 15, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

^This.

Fedor and M-1 really don’t have a leg to stand on when negotiating with Zuffa.

Fighting is actually the best thing a man can have in his soul.

by fusion on Aug 15, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except for the Fact

That if you want a Fedor/Brock superfight you need the Fedor part. Dana has been dying to promote that fight and a loss to Werdum does little to change that. Especially if Fedor beats Werdum and Brock beats Cain and JDS.

by memitim on Aug 15, 2010 9:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

dana has been dying to promote that fight, but he wasn’t willing to give M1 what they wanted before, and there is only less reason to give in now.

by Phildo on Aug 15, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

However Dana did try and meet them in the middle.

However, M1 was unwilling to do the same. Now, wonderfully, M1 would have significantly less bargaining power.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 15, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Strikeforce is far inferior to the UFC

….but hey at least its not as bad as elite xc was.

I’ll eat a frozen pizza but would prefer some papa johns

Confucius says:

"Baseball is wrong; man with four balls cannot walk."

by RiverHorror on Aug 15, 2010 4:24 AM EDT reply actions  

hes gonna fight barnett

i heard from a good source barnett is signing with strikeforce in the next few weeks. I did not hear who he would be fighting, but it would only make sense with werdum out and bigfoot fighting overeem.

by ezubik on Aug 15, 2010 7:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Hooray for co-promotion

You know what the UFC needs: MILLSTONES! I hear you can get them attached to an attractive necklace in Russia.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.

by jemaleddin on Aug 15, 2010 10:22 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Why Is Wanting A Rematch Such a Bg Deal

Fedor obviously wants to rematch Werdum. And considering his record going into the fight and what happened could you blame him? Coker has said he doesn’t want that to be Fedor’s next fight. So, it’s a standoff. So what if Fedor wants to wait for Werdum to get healthy. I don’t see anyone whining about Rashad not taking any fights till Rua is ready. I understand SF sticking to their guns. Fedor rematches Werdum without a new contract and leaves then they lose the superfight they wanted against Overeem and if Fedor wins they lose the shine that is Werdum. So, for SF, without a new contract, booking the rematch has only the benefit of the one off match with Werdum and that’s it. That’s it. But for Fedor no other fight makes sense except avenging his one legit loss. So, some bargaining is going to have to take place. I just find it funny that people were bashing Fedor the other day because there was talk of his renewing his contract at SF and now the only way for Fedor to get what he wants is to renew his contract and he gets bashed again. I also find it hilarious the folks who believe if Fedor was a FA Dana wouldn’t try like he’ll again to get him. Especially if he is coming off a decisive win against Werdum. Purely delusional.

by memitim on Aug 15, 2010 12:41 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Has Anyone Read the M-1/SF/Fedor Contract?

I keep hearing how bad this contract is and what a millstone it is around SF’s neck. Has anyone actually read it. Does anyone have specific details that are based on fact, not heresy? Wha I know is Werdum’s people said M-1 would have to put a lot of money on the table for Werdum to rematch Fedor. They didn’t say SF, they said M-1. If anyone has intimate details of this horror of a contract, please share. I haven’t seen or heard anything reliable.

by memitim on Aug 15, 2010 2:56 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Has Anyone Read the M-1/SF/Fedor Contract?

I keep hearing how bad this contract is and what a millstone it is around SF’s neck. Has anyone actually read it. Does anyone have specific details that are based on fact, not heresy? Wha I know is Werdum’s people said M-1 would have to put a lot of money on the table for Werdum to rematch Fedor. They didn’t say SF, they said M-1. If anyone has intimate details of this horror of a contract, please share. I haven’t seen or heard anything reliable.

by memitim on Aug 15, 2010 2:56 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Man, that Fedor guy? He sucks! I don’t like him!

by Amor on Aug 15, 2010 8:46 PM EDT reply actions  

More seriously: when the fuck did fans stop rooting for good fights and start rooting for sensible business moves? What kind of MMA fan wants to see one of the world’s best fighters off their television screen because he might possibly screw up the business plan of a promoter? We need less backseat CEOs and more actual fight fans on this site.

by Amor on Aug 15, 2010 8:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Um...when that figher (and his management) would most likely...

lead to ultimate end of all future fights from that promotion because of the poor business plan necessitated to acquire him…or something.

Seriously, who here would trade, say Lesnar v Fedor for all the great fights the UFC would put on in the future after it?

Its pretty easy to understand.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 15, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

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