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Handicapping James Toney's Chances Against Randy Couture at UFC 118

James Toney training in 4 oz. MMA gloves. Photo via M-1GlobalUSA.com

Bernard Hopkins has already weighed in:

"For real. James Toney is out of his league... When you step out into a situation where, against a legend too in his own sport. I believe, and I'll go on the record, that the best MMA guy or UFC guy go up against the best boxer in the world in their arena, in their arena gets their ass kicked. I don't care who it is, whether Floyd, Pacquiao, Bernard Hopkins, they get they ass kicked. That is not what we do."

Freddie Roach answers the question put to him by East Side Boxing, can Toney win?

"No. James is a good friend of mine, but he doesn't have the ground game, and is not that big a puncher. I think the UFC is using him just to show that he can be beat by one of their guys, and that they have a better sport than we do. They are just using him as a stepping stone. I wish James wouldn't do it. But boxing is a very important part of UFC. Nobody likes the ground game; everyone wants to see a fight. I do understand that there is a lot to the ground fight, but I am just not a big fan. I think their sport is gearing more toward stand-up rather than ground game. I have worked with most of the greats in UFC, and more are calling me for help. Best part of UFC is when they are striking."

In the full entry we'll hear from Jake Rossen, Toney's trainer Trevor Sherman, and Toney himself:

Ufc_118_button_medium

Star-divide

Jake Rossen thinks that some boxers could possibly do well in MMA, but not Toney:

Two kinds of boxers would have modest success in MMA: The highly athletic and the highly aggressive. Mike Tyson had the fuel-injection momentum of Melvin Manhoef without the kicks, and Manhoef has earned wins despite having no ground aptitude whatsoever. Sometimes a guy's sheer steamrolling is enough.

The second contingent would resemble the early Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic: a hyper-athletic striker who can pick up defensive wrestling quickly. A few years ago, maybe the Klitschkos could've pulled it off.

I'm not willing, as Hopkins is, to totally dismiss any boxer's chances in MMA. But Toney, with his plodding, gut-slop style, ain't the guy.

As for Toney, he says he's ready, via Sherdog:

"Kicking is for girls," Toney said of his cross-training. "I like the grappling part of things. The rear-naked choke and guillotine. I like all that. It's like it came naturally to me."

However, Toney said it's his boxing that will do all the work against Couture come fight time.

"I'm ready and can't wait," said Toney. "I can't wait to show people what a real fighter does with his hands. I've been training for this for about 11 months. I'm born to win. It doesn't matter that this is my first fight."

The Boston Herald has more from Toney:

Toney, who plans on defending his IBF boxing title in October, has been training in MMA full-time in California under Trevor Sherman. He says he's focusing on takedown and Brazilian jiu-jitsu defense.

"I enjoy it. For the past five months I've been preparing for this transition. I'm ready for everything," Toney said. "I'm born to win, that's all I do. Randy is going to be Randy and James is going to be James. Whatever happens happens but I win hands down. I'm going to knock him out."

Trevor Sherman replaced Juanito Ibarra in May as Toney's main MMA trainer. Here's what he has to say about Toney to the L.A. Times:

"He's a natural predator," said Trevor Sherman, the MMA coach who's taught Toney key grappling fundamentals so Toney can land devastating punches if he gets Couture to the mat. "No one has ever stepped into the octagon with this type of striking prowess."

The real X factor I see in all this is the ages of both fighters. Toney is over 40 and Couture is pushing 50. At those ages, either man could enter the cage performing at a dramatically reduced level even from their last fight.  

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28th can't get here fast enough.

At first I wanted to see Randy get a quick sub, but at this point I would rather him take down Toney and beat on him for three rounds.

by PetrozellisJab on Aug 13, 2010 12:35 PM EDT reply actions  

I hope Toney get's the KO

"I'm not Dog the Bounty Hunter, I don't issue apologies. And you're not going to be the first one to get one out of me." - Sonnen

"It’s going to be like sex with a grizzly bear, you know, a lot of scratching and growling on both sides." - Don Frye

RIP Sherdog (6/26/10)

by Excelsior! on Aug 13, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

ugh, Freddie. even James Toney said he likes grappling
Nobody likes the ground game; everyone wants to see a fight. I do understand that there is a lot to the ground fight, but I am just not a big fan. I think their sport is gearing more toward stand-up rather than ground game.

a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon

by eastcoastatlas on Aug 13, 2010 12:45 PM EDT reply actions  

MMA Fighting reported it

in the same piece they also reported Dean Lister was training Toney and Randy Couture says that Lister told him that’s not true.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 13, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

don’t think we need 90% of a quote repeated twice in the post.

Mir, Nightmare , Axe Murderer , Bones

by MMA-UK on Aug 13, 2010 12:56 PM EDT reply actions  

indeed

repetitive quote is repetitive.

by nicey on Aug 13, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought maybe I just re-read the quote on accident at first.

Bolts from the Blue // "Sometimes you would get the sense that people felt bigger than the team," Gates said. "Not to say it was an issue, but we know it’s not an issue for sure now."
Bloody Elbow // "I'm not Dog the Bounty Hunter, I don't issue apologies. And you're not going to be the first one to get one out of me." - Chael Sonnen

by Richard Wade on Aug 13, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

woops

fixed. thanks for catching

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 13, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I garuntee one thing Toney will beat Couture at

He’ll be the better dressed fighter at the pre-fight presser.

"If the commission would sanction it and Dana would move, I’d fighter Anderson right now."
- Chael Sonnen at the post fight press conference following his loss to Anderson Silva.

Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/

by Worldisart on Aug 13, 2010 1:00 PM EDT reply actions  

question

if Toney has been working out so hard for the past 11 months, why does he seem fatter today than he did 11 months ago?

by BeeTrain on Aug 13, 2010 1:01 PM EDT reply actions  

you must have missed the comment I posted about his diet regimen.

by MrTechnique420 on Aug 13, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

i did.

please share, or tell me where to go, good sir

by BeeTrain on Aug 13, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wrestling vs Striking not MMA vs Boxing

Why is the Couture/Toney fight being promoted as a boxing vs mma fight? Shouldn’t it be more accuratley touted as a wrestling vs striking fight? Anyone with a brain knows that Couture has absolutley no shot in the stand up (nor does any UFC fighter) and Toney stands very little chance on the ground. Or why isn’t it being advertised as a mma fight? If Brock Lesnar is considered a mma fighter by the UFC with his one-dimensional wrestling than Toney should also be considered a MMA fighter with his boxing. Under the same UFC logic shouldn’t Lesnar fights be promoted as Wrestling vs MMA? Or let me guess, because he’s big strong and completely roided out that makes him a stand up fighter as well. Or, is it the couple of years he’s been working on his so called stand up? I guess under UFC logic Toney will be a complete MMA fighter with a just a few more months wrestling experience. Dana is completly jealous of boxing. He has total little man syndrome when it comes to it. He pretends to claim he’s a fan but takes every opportunity he can to discretit it. Top rated Boxers are the best stand up fighters in the world where top MMA fighters are the most well rounded fighters. This is exactly why Dana White put Toney up against one of his best wrestlers. He can’t afford the the risk of Toney easily pummelling all his top strikers unless they can take him down. He knows that Couture is his safest bet and isn’t gonna stand with him for ego’s sake to try and prove something and land up getting KO’d in the process. He can pretend all he wants that it was Couture who wanted this fight but we all know who really needs this fight to go as planned

by chris sylva on Aug 13, 2010 1:16 PM EDT reply actions  

i think top level K-1 fighters are the best at all around stand up striking.

boxers are the best with their hands.

And if i’m not mistaken, Randy was a golden gloves boxer at one point, so yes, this is MMA vs. boxing.

Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down

by Austin Martin on Aug 13, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Little man syndrome?

UFC PPV sales kick the ass of all but 1 or 2 boxing PPVs each year.

It’s OK to like boxing and MMA. Really. Take a breath, dude.

"I might know a couple things that you don't know. 'Cause I've been young, but you ain't never been old." - Elvin Bishop

by duck on Aug 13, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

But if you are stupid, you will be beaten with a stick - Proverbs 10:13

by Ominous on Aug 13, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Anyone with a brain knows that Couture has absolutley no shot in the stand up"

I’m not sure this is at all true. In pure boxing v boxing, sure Toney should be the better guy, but “stand up” in MMA encompasses alot more than just boxing.

IF (big IF) Toney somehow survives the first takedown, I am guessing his stand up will be severely compromised by the desire to not have it happen again. With that on his mind, I can see Randy even out boxing Toney…not that I expect it to unfold like that a all.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 14, 2010 6:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

freddie!

1. I agree with freddie roach 100%

2. Question: Toney has a boxing match in October, what if he gets hurt ala arlovski against brett rodgrs? what a dummy…

by oousty on Aug 13, 2010 1:17 PM EDT reply actions  

You agree that nobody like the ground game and that MMA is becoming all stand-up?

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Aug 13, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

'Cause Rashad Evans would like a word with you...

"I might know a couple things that you don't know. 'Cause I've been young, but you ain't never been old." - Elvin Bishop

by duck on Aug 13, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree that we want to see a stand up fight

but I may be confused because I loved the Sonnen/Anderson fight….hated the Fitch fight…and hate watching Rashad sit on people b/c he is scared to exchange

by oousty on Aug 13, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rashad sits on people

because he wins when he does that. When he tried to trade, he did the Stanky Leg. Rashad’s a smart guy – go with what wins.

"I might know a couple things that you don't know. 'Cause I've been young, but you ain't never been old." - Elvin Bishop

by duck on Aug 13, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or, he causes the kick'n chicken...

a la Chuck Liddell.

You can’t deride Rashad’s stand up because of his loss to a superior striker without having to acknowledge his stunning success against another superior striker.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 14, 2010 6:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Toss and smash

gets you a rec my good sir.

"Your not gonna jab and shoulder roll your way away from Brock Lesnar; He is gonna fuck you." - Joe 'High as Fuck' Rogan

by KingAtRock on Aug 13, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know

I am with you, as are many, many others

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Aug 13, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which is funny...

because of all the drama lately about how wrestlers are taking over and ruining the sport…

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 14, 2010 6:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

crap. i logged in just in time to miss mmasavvy.

i bid you adieu.

Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down

by Austin Martin on Aug 13, 2010 1:19 PM EDT reply actions  

There's one boxer who could that comes to mind....

Middleweight up-and-comer Fernando Guerrero. Wrestled in MD in HS for two years and was 5th in the state by the end of the 2nd year. Didn’t wrestle in the off season much – just 2 4-month HS seasons and he was 5th in the state. Was the odds-on favorite to win his senior year when he decided to focus solely on boxing. If he put his mind to it, he could be good at MMA. But he’s making more boxing now than he would at MMA, so there’s no financial incentive to switch.

"I might know a couple things that you don't know. 'Cause I've been young, but you ain't never been old." - Elvin Bishop

by duck on Aug 13, 2010 1:24 PM EDT reply actions  

I like how the two easiest submissions are his favorite lol

by IpullguardIRL on Aug 13, 2010 1:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Well, can you imagine him trying to pronounce “Peruvian Neck Tie” or “Ezekiel Choke”?

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Aug 13, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Co-signed

(see above comment)

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Aug 13, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure, why not?

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Aug 13, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Somebodies use their real names as usernames...

the rest of us come up with creative terms because no one cares who we are.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 14, 2010 6:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

My name is Nobody

I guess :|

"Your not gonna jab and shoulder roll your way away from Brock Lesnar; He is gonna fuck you." - Joe 'High as Fuck' Rogan

by KingAtRock on Aug 13, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is how it will go down...

He’s gonna get thrown on his back and then pummeled for about 2.5 rounds. Then out of nowhere he’ll catch randy in a triangle for the win…

At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.

by TrojanCBB on Aug 13, 2010 2:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Nobody likes the ground game; everyone wants to see a fight

That quote is ridiculous. Just because you don’t like the ground game freddie, doesn’t mean no one does. He then says Ufc is leaning to strikers? Correct me if i’m wrong, but i believe MMA is leaning more to wrestlers than strikers.

by D.Hughes on Aug 13, 2010 3:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Actually...

the best in the UFC somehow manage to be good in both the stand up part of the sport AND the ground fighting…imagine that?

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 14, 2010 6:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

At first glance I thought the title read

‘Handicapped James Toney’s Chances Against Randy Couture’ and I thought it fit

by T.P. Grant on Aug 13, 2010 7:11 PM EDT reply actions  

There is definitely a speech impediment at play...

but I doubt that gets you preferential parking spots.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 14, 2010 6:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Now this is just a third hand rummor, but Eddie Bravo said on Joe Rogan’s podcast that James Toney wasn’t training hard. It may just be me, but the more this nonsense goes on the more I think that Toney is in it just for a quick pay check then he’ll quit.

by RachHeartsMMA on Aug 13, 2010 10:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Toney's fat gut...

corroborates your theory.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Aug 14, 2010 6:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hope your wrong

but I kinda think your right…

"I ain't got time to breath."
Watch Tosh.O
Pain don't hurt...

by RolloTomasi on Aug 16, 2010 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

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