Is Women's MMA About "Sex and Violence" or Compelling Competition?
by Nate Wilcox on Aug 12, 2010 12:30 PM EDT
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Seth Pollack at SB Nation Arizona asks the question:I'm not that into MMA to begin with and have never seen the girls fight before my prep for this event and frankly, I don't know what to make of it or what to expect.
There's no hiding the fact that the combination of violence and women triggers a primal reaction that I won't even try to explain but I think we can all acknowledge. Watching people beat on each other is age-old entertainment. Mix in the tantalizing element of sex and it's no wonder that promoters are putting these girls in the ring.
I asked my wife if I should be ashamed or scornful of the battle and in her post-feminist wisdom she basically said, "Who are we to judge if that's what they want to do." Before adding that she hopes I don't expect her to ever get in the ring.
Anyone who's spent any time around women athletes or women in general know better than to question their toughness. That's a non-issue.
Skill and talent is gender neutral so while the women fighting in Phoenix might not be the top in their sport they clearly are well-trained in their art and masters of their various disciplines.
But can the inherent lack of strength and speed make for a compelling competition or is this really just about sex and violence?
Sherdog interviews the participants in Strikeforce's four woman 135lb tournament that will share the Strikeforce Challenger's 10 card with Riggs. Read Hitomi Akano break down the stylistic match-ups she's facing in the tourney and ask yourself if this woman is participating in a "cat fight" or a competition:
"(Tate's) primary weapon is the takedown and her straight punches are looking good, so she is an all-around fighter," said Akano. "(Kujala) seems like she has got a strength and I have to be cautious about her striking. I think her weakness is a lack of MMA experience. (Damm) has got many unorthodox moves, so against her, I have to maintain my pace and rhythm. I do look at the three other fighters in the tournament, but also, I am looking at myself so I can improve as well."
Here's Meisha Tate with her perspective on the tournament:
"I really like my style matchup with (Akano, Damm and Kujala)," said Tate. "I'm a better wrestler than all of them, so I can dictate whether I want the fight on the feet or on the ground. I'm just going to go out and impose my will. (Kujala) is the one I'm the least worried about because she's the newest and least-experienced fighter. Damm and Akano would be the two tougher matchups for me in the tournament."
While I'm not the biggest fan of women's MMA, I definitely respect it as a sporting proposition. It's just a sport in its infancy.
Pollack also interviews Joe Riggs who comments on women's MMA and Strikeforce 135lb champ Sarah Kaufman's complaints about being on a Challenger's card:
He did have a problem with Sarah Kaufman who recently complained about the promoter, "I don't know what that girl is talking about. She's lucky to even be on TV."
Riggs is fine with women competing in MMA and said they are exciting - to a point, "As long as they don't say things like they don't want to be on the Challengers card and they want to be main events than they're good. We're the show. The men are what people are here to see."
Riggs would normally be right. But ironically, his headlining bout against Louis Taylor is much less interesting to me, and I think the majority of hardcore MMA fans who comprise the Strikeforce Challenger audience, than the 135lb women's tournament. Riggs, for all his promise, hasn't been relevant in years, but something tells me we'll be seeing a lot more of the 135lb women's division.
Now as for the question of the role of sexualized marketing in women's MMA. That's a big question. Clearly it played a role in the success of Gina Carano, but I really believe women's MMA is more about the empowerment of the competitors than the audience's desire for titillation. Only time will tell if women's MMA will succeed in becoming a truly distinct sport with a non-sexual appeal unique from men's MMA.
More BE coverage of Strikeforce Challengers 10: Riggs vs. Taylor
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I dont find it sexy, or competitive, just violent.
Aint watching now, prolly never will.
I like MMA, period, and I like it for the dynamism and competition; like so many people pointed out, the Silva-Sonnen fight showed that anything can happen and it’s damn exciting. Men, women, couldn’t care less. If the fight is compelling, I’m there.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Aug 12, 2010 12:41 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Also:
Riggs calling Kaufman a “girl” and saying that people are “here to see the men”… I’m not sure if it’s misogynistic or homoerotic or what, but Riggs, while entitled to his opinion, comes off pretty damn badly.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
I tune in to watch a fight.
I personally am a lot more interested in the female tourney than I am in Riggs vs Somebody.
by truck on Aug 12, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Wait, Joe Riggs is fighting on this card?
by Chris Nelson on Aug 12, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 11 recs
It’s going to be hard to remove the sex-appeal aspect when Women’s MMA is a small part of cards and organizations that make their money primarily from the young male demographic.
When the target audience is young males, sex appeal is going to be a factor when talking about women. to totally get the sex appeal out, you would need separate women’s orgs like the WNBA or the women’s pro soccer leagues. The problem with that, is it’s hard to make money doing that. The WNBA and various women’s pro soccer leagues don’t do very well financially, and they are drawing from a much larger pool of participants who could become fans.
I just don’t think it’s very possible to take the sex appeal out of womens’s mma while it’s still in this world.
Ditto
Honestly, I was planning on sayint something very similar. Regardless, I do believe WMMA can be compelling – maybe not always – but it’s still just a baby. Give it a few years to develop and we will see more and more Cyborgs.
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."
- Frank Zappa
by grizzlyatoms on Aug 12, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Give it a few years to develop and we will see more and more Cyborgs.
Wrong.
As there’s more competition, the fights get more competitive. Cyborg is exciting because she beats up cans a little girls. She’s a glorified can crusher.
Eh, you know what I mean. I agree, there will be fewer top dogs – but more skilled athletes will be involved. Hell, I was training for a while with a girl I went to High School with, she was state wrestling champ in high school and was getting pretty serious about fighting.
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."
- Frank Zappa
by grizzlyatoms on Aug 12, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yah
And I’m from Texas, so the women know how to wrestle. She’s a strong athlete, and has also been training Karate since she was a kid.
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."
- Frank Zappa
by grizzlyatoms on Aug 12, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Good STP song.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Aug 12, 2010 12:42 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Only time will tell if women’s MMA will succeed in becoming a truly distinct sport with a non-sexual appeal unique from men’s MMA.
MMA is mostly followed by men and based on what I have seen in life it is pretty much impossible for males to completely separate sex from anything involving a female, especially when you add adrenaline and alcohol.
Watching women fight while drinking beer will never be completely devoid of any sex. NEVER!
Exactly
There’s nothing wrong with that either, I just hope some day they will get more credit for their talent. Seems like almost every women’s MMA thread gets bogged down in derogatory or at least sexually charged comments.
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."
- Frank Zappa
by grizzlyatoms on Aug 12, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
But seriously, have you seen Miesha Tate’s ass?
...like young thieves in a glowing orchard, loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing.
- C. McCarthy
by crazybones on Aug 12, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL – Damn You!!!
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."
- Frank Zappa
by grizzlyatoms on Aug 12, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Women's MMA isn't "just about" anything.
For Seth Pollack to suggest that it is “just about sex and violence”, is like saying that men’s MMA is just about the sporting aspect.
There are lots of reasons why different people watch MMA. Hell, there are lots of reasons why I watch it. Narrowing it down to a specific reason is ridiculous.
Maybe it’s more so in women’s MMA, but “looks” plays a part on the men’s side as well, but you wouldn’t try to reduce it to just that.
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
Are we going to have the same post every time there's a big female fight?
I feel that this a copy and paste from all the other posts regarding WMMA.
This might be sexist or whatever
but most people just don’t like to see women get beat up. Personally, I get kind of squeamish watching Frausto kneeing Sexton in the face. It’s part instinct, and partly a societal thing – we’re always taught it’s not okay to hurt women, and it just doesn’t sit right in my gut to watch women get beaten up.
I totally understand that they’re athletes and this is what they love to do, and there’s no question they should be able to do it… but it’s just not very pleasant to watch, sometimes. That’s why Cyborg/Finney caused such an uproar. It’s not a logical thing, it’s just a gut reaction.
I think mixing sex appeal into that violence kind of softens it, or ties it to another primal reaction we have, a much more positive one. And when you mix together two very disparate, visceral elements, it’s either going to be repulsive, or fascinating, or a little bit of both.
So yeah, sex and violence are probably here to stay for women’s MMA. Unfortunately.
...like young thieves in a glowing orchard, loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing.
- C. McCarthy
I’m not that into MMA to begin with and have never seen the girls fight before my prep for this event and frankly, I don’t know what to make of it or what to expect.
That’s the whole issue right there. I am not sexually attracted to a single female MMA fighter aside from Gina Carano, so I don’t watch it for the sex. (Besides, it’s not like they’re tearing each other’s clothes off and making porn in the ring.)
I watch it because I want to see who the baddest chicks on the planet are, period.
"You stick a microphone in a guy's face and he calls out anybody but the champion, and Joe Silva should fax him a pink slip right then." -- Chael Sonnen.
My girl enjoys watching WMMA, I don't know if this is common but
I wonder if the female fighters can help bring in female audiences on a larger scale.
I am sure some of yall have ladies, what do they think of WMMA?
My wife thinks about the same as I do. She enjoys a good matchup, but she thinks fights like Cyborg/Finney are just as retarded as the rest of us do. But she doesn’t obsess over the sport like me, so she mostly still just watches UFC and WEC with me. Strikeforce and the rest, she’ll watch if I tell her she has to see such-and-such fight, but she doesn’t go looking for WMMA.
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."
- Frank Zappa
by grizzlyatoms on Aug 12, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
personally I only enjoy watching WMMA fights when one of the competitors is cute. otherwise I have no one to root for and it becomes boring. i feel pretty much the same way for any pro sport that females compete in.
i’m kind of with you on that. i like watching attractive women in sports. however, my main beef with wmma is that the fighters are simply not that good yet. none of them are well rounded enough, so the fights are usually boring, with a few exceptions.
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by Austin Martin on Aug 12, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Santos, Carano, Vera, Kaufman, Fuji, Aguilar, Modafferi...
Tell any one of those chicks they ‘are simply not that good yet’ and see what happens…
"Every day gets better for me, you know what I'm saying? If anyone has a chance to beat me, it was yesterday..." - Kevin Ferguson
by bloodsportmmadotcom on Aug 12, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, if you want to compare them technically to male fighters, they’re not that great. But arguably the 135 and 145 men’s divisions aren’t that great either (I mean, come on, Manny Gamburyan is ranked no. 2 in the world). They’re just super fun to watch, just like a lot of women’s fights are.
...like young thieves in a glowing orchard, loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing.
- C. McCarthy
why shouldn't Manny be second?
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by Austin Martin on Aug 12, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
He is second. My point is, Gamburyan is not a high level fighter, but he’s still the second best at 145.
...like young thieves in a glowing orchard, loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing.
- C. McCarthy
I'm not seeing how being the 2nd best in the world isnt a high level fighter
That is beyond stupid.
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by Austin Martin on Aug 12, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
You saw his fights at 155, right?
He’s just not a very good fighter. He doesn’t really do anything well, except take people down, and even then his top control isn’t that great.
And he lost to Thiago Tavares and Rob Emerson. This is like BJ Penn moving to 170 and losing to Dennis Hallman and Josh Burkman.
...like young thieves in a glowing orchard, loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing.
- C. McCarthy
Who The F Is Joe Riggs?
Is Joe Riggs serious with that comment? What title has he ever defended? How long did Riggs go undefeated? Lucky to be on TV – this chick Kaufman has been fighting half for half as long as Riggs yet has achieved more in the sport than he can ever hope to… what an ignorant clown – hope she drops him on his head next time the pass in the hallf at a media event…
"Every day gets better for me, you know what I'm saying? If anyone has a chance to beat me, it was yesterday..." - Kevin Ferguson
by bloodsportmmadotcom on Aug 12, 2010 1:06 PM EDT reply actions
So what you are trying to say is Joe Riggs is acting like a bit of a chick...
He wouldn’t make a pretty chick though.
Did it hurt?
-What?
When you fell from heaven…
-Aww… :)
Seriously, cause your face is kinda facked up…
by truck on Aug 12, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Idk but I cant get into WMMA
"If I woke up looking like that, I would run towards the nearest living thing and kill it." -Master Shake
We have to take the amulet to the banana king!
by II SMASH II on Aug 12, 2010 1:07 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Agreed!
I have watched one rd of WMMA in my 15 years of watching the sport.
Can’t get in to it. It’s kinda disgusting to me.
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Aug 12, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait
If you haven’t watched more than one round, how can you say you can’t get into it? Seems like you haven’t tried.
It doesn’t bother me when people don’t like WMMA. To each his own. I don’t really like most heavyweight bouts. But you can’t say “I tried to get into classical music by listening to one song…”
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."
- Frank Zappa
by grizzlyatoms on Aug 12, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
The thing that kills me about people who don’t like women’s MMA is their constant need to remind everyone how much they dislike it.
by Chris Nelson on Aug 12, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s a bit of an unfair thing to say given that no one passes up an opportunity to remind anyone of how much they dislike anything/anyone when it comes to MMA.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 12, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m just saying. I explained here in the comments that I don’t like women’s MMA. I don’t think that’s particularly out of place, especially in the comment section of an article with the headline Is Women’s MMA About “Sex and Violence” or Compelling Competition?
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 12, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
No, you’re right, certainly not out of place. I guess I just don’t understand the end game in people repeatedly stating that they don’t like women’s MMA. (Not just you, obviously, but many on the site and in the MMA world.)
by Chris Nelson on Aug 12, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
People don’t generally say “I hate Lensar” when they’ve watched him fight for one round.
http://www.instrength.com
They haven't?
because that was the tone pre-mma debut
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 12, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
A much more apt analogue would be
People didn’t generally say “I’m not a fan of HW MMA,” even when the division, not so long ago, was at a discernible competitive low-point.
I don’t see the problem with that?
Its not like I said, “I have never watched it, but I DO NOT like WMMA!?” That would be “not trying”.
I just don’t appreciate seeing women fight. Period.
That’s my preference— how is that wrong?
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Aug 12, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
There's nothing "wrong" about a personal preference
I just happen to find it mildly perplexing when people who are fans of a niche sport that lots of people find disgusting manage to turn part of that sport into it’s own niche that they themselves find disgusting.
Do you watch WNBA?
What about Women’s Softball?
I think you are overanalyzing my statement based upon your experiences with the subject.
I didn’t say that I would never watch WMMA, because that would be confusing (as you suggest). What I said is that I gave it a chance and found myself not intrigued by seeing women fight.
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Aug 12, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Semantics
… My point is that you probably have saw “an inning/game” of Women’s Softball and found it to be some adjective that is probably not appealing to the point that you would ever “purposefully” sit through it again.
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Aug 12, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, I like watching Women's softball.
I don’t care to watch the WNBA, so I’ll just go with that. I don’t find the sight of women’s basketball to be so unpleasant that I feel the need to boast about my limited exposure to it to other basketball fans, and I find it amusing when people do so.
I'm sure you like women's sports and follow all of them closely.
I’m not trying to argue this point with you— it’s just a preference.
Perhaps its silly. But, that’s my silly opinion for now. Perhaps it’ll change with time.
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Aug 12, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s nothing wrong with it. But you said yourself you’d seen only one round – I say that’s not trying to get into something. You obviously had a reason for not liking it. My first taste of WMMA was turning on Gina Carano on CBS a few years ago. I was like “damn this is intense”, and I found a new facet of the sport that I enjoyed. I understand that some people find it abhorrent (though I don’t really understand why).
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."
- Frank Zappa
by grizzlyatoms on Aug 12, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I can appreciate that.
… I just did not like the site of women fighting. To some— its all the same. Me? It’s different.
In fact, its one of the factors that psychologists believe that women on the front lines is a “bad thing” overall. The feeling that if a man sees a woman injured or in harms way, that he will sacrifice his own safety and position to defend her. Where as another man— he would trust that he is full y capable to maintain and hold his own.
Not saying that this is absolutely correct, but it certainly makes sense to a degree…
… Ask Roger Huerta.
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Aug 12, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do people keep talking about women’s MMA like it’s a separate sport from MMA? Is “featherweight MMA” different from “heavyweight MMA?” I understand that one entails watching men, while the other entails watching women, but it’s hard to think that anything other than sexism (mild as it may be) could lead to a fight fan being deterred from an otherwise entertaining fight just because the competitors happen to have breasts. Sure we lament a pretty girl getting uglied up more than a pretty dude, but that’s because we’re assholes, and we hate pretty dudes.
Overall, there’s nothing wrong with cheering for the better looking fighter, but the point of following a sport is to appreciate the athletes and the athleticism. If you can’t get that, it’s better to be honest about it, so some conversations can be restricted to people who see the sport the same way you do. It’s like fans who watch MMA for the pro wrestling style stuff, versus the fans who watch MMA for more of the sporting/competition aspect.
by madiq on Aug 12, 2010 1:07 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Riggs really thinks people will be watching for him this weekend?
Bwahahahahahahahahaha
But I digress. I watch to see the best fighters in the world. Male or Female. Not because there’s an off chance that an MMA match might turn into something you might see on Skinemax (unless GSP, Roger Huerta, or Sexyama are involved [pause]).
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Let's see, my favorite fighters to watch are
Mega Megu, Roxy, Tara LaRosa and Cris Santos.
So that’s a big no to the question in the title.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
i will be tuning in
Go Miesha
by SmittytheCutman on Aug 12, 2010 1:36 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I’m not a fan of women’s MMA. There are some great fighters in the sport, I’m not denying that. It’s just that the level of competition is generally pretty low, as in the top fighters are so far above the next level that fights are often not very competitive.
These tournaments (SF and Bellator) will hopefully avoid that trap.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 12, 2010 1:39 PM EDT reply actions
Same here. It’s like watching a women’s hockey tournament. Everyone knows it’ll be the USA and Canada in the finals. If the other teams get away without losing in double digit numbers to either of these teams, they’re coming away with a moral victory. The competitiion isn’t there. Will it get there? Probably. Bottom line is, I want to see skilled, competitive fights. It’s tough watching Cyborg, as skilled as she is, just beat the tar out of an opponent who has no real way of defeating her.
To me, this comes across as needlessly inflammatory rehtoric
The lighter male divisions are still getting off the ground and feature a limited amount of ranking coherence and top-level, competitive bouts. When a relevant bout does arise, I don’t see a lot of commentary to the effect that “Oh, I’m not a fan of the 115 pound division, because most of it isn’t that compelling.” Good MMA is still good MMA.
Well...that's part 2 of this...
rarely have I seen what I would call “good MMA” in women’s mma. Queue the flaming I suppose.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 12, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
You'll not get that rise out of me, as it's simply a difference of opinion.
It’s probably also relevant that I don’t mind watching some admittedly bad MMA. I suspect you are simply not a fan of bad MMA, but that position isn’t half as interesting (or provocative) as stating that one isn’t a fan of female MMA.
I suspect you are simply not a fan of bad MMA
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/2/12/757572/why-i-will-be-liveblogging
by Chris Nelson on Aug 12, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
So the key is to be so bad that it awkwardly loops back around to being compelling
I suppose then, based on that Wargods card alone, that Brookhouse is a big Tonya Evinger fan.
To women, men's MMA is often about sex appeal
At least my wife just watches for GSP and his shorts. She’s also a Faber fan. But while she sometimes gets into a fight, she fell asleep during Silva/Sonnen.
For me, I watch WMMA for the competition and don’t find much attractive during the bouts (cornrows are a turnoff), but the photos in the buildup are a bonus. I would say the sport got a lot better once 5min rounds were instituted.
I have zero interest in ever sleeping with Cyborg Santos
I will, however, watch her fight every time.
I have every interest in sleeping with Gina Carano. I will also watch her fight every time.
Why does it have to be black and white? Why can’t it be both? Shades of greys, folks.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Aug 12, 2010 2:19 PM EDT reply actions
Meh
I don’t think it’s sexist to just say that all around WMMA is relatively unimpressive. The striking tends to be sloppy, the wrestling is almost non-existent and the BJJ is weak as well. I have no problem with the idea or sanctioning of WMMA, if they want to compete, more power to them. Just don’t expect many people to be interested until they refine their technique.
Women's MMA
is going to be at least partially about sex, because female fighters market themselves that way. Hard for it not to be when you have Tate’s booty everywhere and Carano posing in Maxim. They choose to market themselves that way.
That’s a really poor over-generalization. Fujii doesn’t; Kaufman doesn’t; Roxy doesn’t; Rosi Sexton doesn’t… I could go on.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Never meant
to imply that all women do. I should have worded that better. Some women fighters choose to market themselves that way. So they can’t really complain when people aren’t focusing on their fight skills.
by marta_gallo on Aug 12, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks everyone for the comments
and insight…
I just finished writing up my interview with Miesha Tate. She talked about this as well:
http://arizona.sbnation.com/2010/8/12/1619667/miesha-tate-men-are-instinctual
“Overall, men, if you think about evolution, men have been fighting and killing each other for thousands of years. It’s more instinctual. Something that’s more of a learning process for the women. We’re behind the curve but I think we’re doing exceptionally well.”
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
They should be killing each other in no time!
http://www.instrength.com
by Tim Burke on Aug 12, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Women have been fighting as long as men...
It’s just they do it with catty, back-handed comments…
I keed, I keed.
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."
- Frank Zappa
by grizzlyatoms on Aug 12, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I gotta admit I didn't like watching a woman get beatup atfirst either
But then my brain said “Hey dumbass its another woman beating her up(and its a sport that they are getting paid for) so it’s ok!”
Im all for WMMA.
Used to be a fan of Joe Riggs. He kinda just ended that for me. Now i want to see him get his ass beat whoever he is fighting simply for his comments about Sarah Kaufman
"To resist is to piss in the wind......"
You're all right
Women’s MMA is exactly like the WNBA and not a sport that tests the will and skill of two individual opponents going heads up like say women’s tennis- which has been very successful. I also would wager a lot of the people saying they don’t watch it because it’s an inferior product have absolutely no problem watching college sports.
We’re all new to this whole seeing women competitively hit each other thing, that’s fine. It’s normal to be apprehensive toward new things. but stop trying to justify your apprehension in silly ways. The chain of “Oh I don’t care about whoever vs. whoever fighting because they’re women”, “Oh I hated that fight because a women got KO’d/injured/cut” is like a bar playing remixes of “Boom Boom Pow” over and over (kind of really fucking irritating.)
a kitten dies every time you compare an individual sport to a team sport.
by Marvin Malehooves on Aug 12, 2010 6:59 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Matt Pitt
Matt Pitt at Sherdog just did an awesome breakdown of the differences between men and women fighters. He doesn’t say one is better or worse, just discusses physical differences that affect MMA
Simple yay!
To me, it’s about compelling competition. I bet theres plenty knuckleheads out there that do not see womens mma this way… but I guess I watch womens tennis for the sexy reason rather than the competition. Does that void the competetive element of womens tennis? Certainly not, it’s still considered a great competetive sport. That’s why womens mma is legit too, even if some people don’t watch it for the same reason the fighters fight.
Case Closed.
ps: Marloes Coenen rules.
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