Preliminary Estimates Have UFC 117 Doing Near 1 Million Buys, Chael Sonnen Puts Anderson Silva Over the Top
by Nate Wilcox on Aug 10, 2010 1:12 PM EDT
in MMA News
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Bryan Alvarez reports at the Wrestling Observer (subscription required):
Sonnen, as recapped in last week's newsletter, did the best one-man build for a PPV in years, perhaps ever. We don't have a buyrate and won't have a really good indication on how the show did until at least next week. I do know that using the method I usually use on Monday mornings, which is usually pretty accurate in terms of a predictor (I came up with 1.5 million for UFC 100 and the real number was 1.6 million, and 1.25 million for UFC 116 and the real number ended up being about 1.1 million, so it's sometimes up and sometimes down but usually close) the show is trending just slightly under the Quinton Jackson vs. Rashad Evans show, which did about 1 million buys. Dana White on Saturday night said his early trending info had him ecstatic and was pointing to the biggest Anderson Silva fight of all time. Keep in mind the previous biggest Anderson fight was versus Forrest Griffin, which did about 900,000. The feeling from the UFC side Monday was that it's likely going to finish at around a million buys or maybe just underneath that. Two months ago, Sonnen vs. Silva would have been lucky to do 300,000 to 350,000 buys. By the time the last week of hype rolled around I upgraded my prediction to 550,000. Others were predicting much higher. My feeling was that anyone who saw the Sonnen stuff was going to be talked into buying the show, and anyone who didn't wasn't going to care. The Countdown debut didn't do a great number, but it replayed a million times and I know that a lot of friends of mine who would not have bought this show two weeks ago changed their tune on Friday and Saturday when they got a chance to see it. Chael realistically deserves an extra dollar for every buy above around 550,000 that this show does (I'll grant 200,000 buys to a post-Lesnar bump which I'll talk about in a bit), because anything above that can be attributed almost completely to his promos.
Looks like those of us who said that Chael Sonnen's brilliant use of pro-wrestling promotional tactics would work to get the UFC's least popular champ over with the PPV buying public were spot on.
We'll do some hand-wringing about what that means for the sport later today.
One factor that has not been much discussed is the hang-over effect of Brock Lesnar. Last year UFC 101 did surprisingly strong numbers coming in the wake of Lesnar vs Frank Mir 2's record setting PPV performance. I would be very curious to learn if UFC 117 followed the "map" of PPV buys that Lesnar pulled for UFC 116. Dave Meltzer said that followed an atypical pattern for UFC buys and was much stronger in WWE markets than in some traditional UFC mainstays.
I predict that other UFC fighters will attempt to ape Sonnen's approach in the future. If you don't like trash talk before fights, cover your ears. And if you think Sonnen was bad, James Toney makes him look like an amateur.
The fact that the UFC is able to follow up immediately with a very strong card at UFC 118 is a very exciting prospect for the MMA UFC business. The B.J. Penn vs Frankie Edgar lightweight title fight rematch should intrigue the hard core fans and James Toney vs Randy Couture (or "Boxing vs UFC")has a ton of intrigue for casual fans and non-MMA fans.
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ZUFFA IN TROUBLE PART 9:
Where the f*ck are we going to put all this cash?
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
by SSreporters on Aug 10, 2010 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 17 recs
well we know where Dana
squanders his share — Station Casinos.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Aug 10, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nate, you obviously don’t have the slightest clue about why Dana spends a half million at the casino so I’m gonna help you out. He’s losing all that money as a way to help the Fertittas out, the more he loses the closer they get to pulling out of bankruptcy and being able to pay off all their debts. It’s basically a loan he’s making to them to help out their struggling casino gaming business, nothing more and nothing less. In fact I’ve heard Dana doesn’t even like to gamble. So you can quit calling him a degenerate gambler now, he’s just a nice guy trying to help out his friends.
by ufc4 on Aug 10, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis
by Goonisis on Aug 10, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
How so?
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 10, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
You realize that Dana has probably won his share of $500,000 hands at the tables too … right? Just because he lost a big hand in front of a reporter does not mean it always plays out that way. I’m sure Dana walks home with some pretty big winnings almost as often as he gets cleaned out.
stop
you’re killing me.
the odds of blackjack are pretty brutal. the house always wins in the end.
poker’s a little better but it depends who dana’s playing with. Vegas is full of guys who live off of guys like Dana.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Not really, if you play the game correctly blackjack has some of the best odds available. If you can count cards it actually gives the player a 1-2% advantage.
Except that modern casinos make counting cards impossible. Constantly shuffled shoes, shoes which count cards and prompt a shuffle if the deck favors the players, etc. It isn’t possible to win in table games. Period.
@rask4p on Twitter
Blackjack has some of the best odds in the casino.
Problem is that no odds are good in the casino
" Real talk - A gorilla would shit kick Brock." – ElliotMatheny
Problem is that no odds are good in the casino
Actually, they are the best in the casino.
Depending on the rules and number of decks, using advanced variants of blackjack basic strategy typically puts the house edge at anywhere from 0.09% – 0.50% which is basically a cost of 1 -4 hands per 12 hours.
In the long run, it is a loosing game, like all games played against the house, which is why I stick to poker for making money and treat blackjack and sports betting as pay-to-play hobbies.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 10, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Sports betting
Pays for my blackjack – but I still keep that seperate of my poker bankroll…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 10, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I have never found any appeal in gambling...
Friendly wagers are one thing, but I have never bet money.
I don't care much for it when they are truly games of chance
Like roulette or craps or the like, and frankly playing basic strategy blackjack, much like counting cards, is just too tedious to enjoy except in spurts.
Sports betting is much more fun, and there is some degree of skill involved, but for me, poker is not even really gambling. Yes, chance plays a role in the day-to-day and game-to-game outcomes, but in the long run, the more skilled players prevail.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 10, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
This makes no sense. So if I went on a ufc countdown show and shit talked Anderson Silva would a million people pay to watch me fight him?
I've been calling out Floyd Mayweather since the Marquez fight.
I can make 147 and, as most of you have realized by our interactions here, I’m kind of a loudmouthed prick. I will talk that fight up, hype it to no end, take USADA drug tests, and not threaten his undefeated record. It’s basically as good as him fighting Matthew Hatton, but I’ll concede more money on the purse split. I wholeheartedly believe that with enough shit talk against a known personality, I can make enough money to make that beating worth it.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
LOL
It helps to have some professional fighting experience to MAKE the masses THINK you actually have a chance at putting up a struggle. Nobody tunes into a fight to watch a massacre even if somebody shoots their mouth off.
I'm in decent shape, would be in good shape if I had to make 147
and I do train… MMA. So I know how to punch, not how to box.
And lets be fair… over a million people bought Marquez vs. Floyd when Floyd himself said it was a bad fight since Marquez was too small for him. +700k bought Pacquiao vs. Clottey, and it wasn’t a surprise to many that Clottey totally shit the bed on that one. GSP vs. Hardy, a complete mismatch in every possible way, sold similarly. Me and Money May shit talking for two weeks with a 24/7 series to cover it will sell 500k at least. He gets an 80-20 split on the purse and basically doesn’t have to train for it… that’s a good business decision. Except he’s fucking ducking me.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
But do you actually have a pro record that lends itself to a realistic match up?
Butterbean can call out anyone and get at least some consideration. Because he’s out there and been out there. I don’t know who you are but unless your name is at least somewhat known, it’s not a realistic thing.
I do not have a pro record and nobody knows who I am.
Yet. But Floyd does, and that’s why he’s running scared. He knows that once I lay hands on him, that zero is good as gone and he’s gonna have to retire for real. If he thinks he can pull the Michael Jordan retirement, he’s about to get some help. I’m gonna beat him so bad, he’ll be out of boxing start playing baseball to pay off those IRS bills.
Now imagine that shit on HBO. It’s nonsense, but I’ll keep it going for weeks.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
You really don't buy that pre fight hype sells?
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 10, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
If it’s a fight like Mir vs. Brock then sure, but two guys like Silva and Sonnen who the casual fan couldn’t give two shits about? I could see it pushing up the buys maybe 100-200K (so say around 500K or so total) but all the way to a million? That I would have never guessed.
I think the Brock Lesnar hang over
was good for 200K
and I also think the Roger Huerta hype was good for 50K or so.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Lesnar def Huerta??
I mean a ton of people got that Lesnar card and it lived up to the hype. So people were going to order another UFC card. Luckily this one delivered too. So pencil in a big number for 118.
I’m not sure Huerta helped much since he wasn’t on the card. It wasn’t exactly a natural lead in to ohh and there is a fight this weekend.
every single headline about Huerta
said “ex UFC fighter”
believe me, I’ve got 15 years in PR, that shit was gold for the UFC, GOLD
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
good point
i could also see some carry over into the Penn/Edgar fight as well, maybe not $250k, but an easy $100k carry over.
Not only are we going to Boston, Massachusetts, Tom Harkin,
We’re going to Austin, Texas and Indianapolis and the O2 Arena in London, England and we’re going to California and New York … well maybe not New York! But we’re going to Germany and Chicago, Illinois and then we’re going to take back Las Vegas for the TUF 12 Finale and UFC 124!
BYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
by Brent Ducharme on Aug 10, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
I see what you did there
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton
The mental image of Dana White doing that was just too much. I had to share.
by Brent Ducharme on Aug 10, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, typical Silva fight ~350,000 buys. +200,000 BROCKLESNAR. +50,000 handsome mexican dude that can’t beat Pat Curran KO’s football-playing wife beater. So big-mouthed racist who should be sponsored by TAPOUT = 400,000 buys? And I thought I was good at math.
by ufc4 on Aug 10, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And your opposing theorey?
Perhaps a shifting desire from fans to see fighters dance around and not give a shit?
Occam’s Razor, the simplest explanation is usually the right explanation. In this case it would be Chael Sonnen shit talking and almost single handedly selling people on this fight.
"If the commission would sanction it and Dana would move, I’d fighter Anderson right now."
- Chael Sonnen at the post fight press conference following his loss to Anderson Silva.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, just that I can’t believe there are that many people out there willing to drop $45 just cuz of a little smack talk.
Well, you have to figure it was probably a 70-30 split between the people who became interested in shelling out money to see this guy get punched in the head and the contingent of NRA members who started buying canned food in bulk when Fox News started reporting on immigration.
by Brent Ducharme on Aug 10, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I see your bottled water and batteries and raise you Jack Daniels plus supplies for homemade napalm.
by Brent Ducharme on Aug 10, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Supplies for homemade napalm? You mean gasoline and styrofoam?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 10, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a pretty straightforward way of handling things.
by Brent Ducharme on Aug 10, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Works better
If you add liquid lysol to the mix…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 10, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
WTF are you talking about?!?
Ammunition, ammunition and more ammunition…
Well, that, bottled water, batteries and MREs…
Or as my buddy who sold his home and business when the economy started collapsing – guns, gold and grub.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 10, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
The smack talk got them interested in the fight. Do they want to see Chael get beat up or do they want to see him take it to Anderson and give him a beating. It doesn’t matter as long as they care one way or the other, which is exactly what the pre-fight theatrics did.
" Real talk - A gorilla would shit kick Brock." – ElliotMatheny
I don't think I understand that jab at Tapout...
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Well then I made a factually correct statement
because that went right over my head. Well played, sir.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Did Sonnen run over your dog or something?
" Real talk - A gorilla would shit kick Brock." – ElliotMatheny
It sells but suggesting that Sonnen’s campaign is the main reason why this PPV will do well without evidence from those that purchase the PPV doesn’t help.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Aug 10, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you could base it on years and years of evidence in boxing, pro wrestling and anything else...
that pre-fight hype sells big.
I mean, maybe Chael and Anderson have not been proven draws before but writing for SBNation.com gives me a chance to get a very strong vibe of what the non-hardcore fans think and Anderson’s maia performance got a TON of focus, and then they were all eating up Chael’s talk. It turned the event into a “what will happen?” scenario and added buys by people who wanted to see Chael get his ass kicked for being a moron or Anderson get his ass kicked for what he did against Maia.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 10, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Listen I really understand the notion, the thought process behind all of that.
This is more or less the equivalent of a huge internet buzz surrounding a film like Snakes On a Plane. YOU COULDN’T BUY the press the film had. Yes a huge internet buzz with the fanboys really helps but doesn’t it also always equate to ticket sales at the box office? No.
Hollywood has been trying to repeat the success that some films obtain by appearing in Comic-Con because consensus thinks if it is well received there then it should perform well . . . but it is not always an automatic case.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Aug 10, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
I think Sonnen added maybe 150K-200K worth of buys. If that.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I made another post belooooow, i'll repost it
To put this all on Sonnen is an overstatement, he certainly played a part, however
1) Post-Lesnar bump. After Lesnar fights, there’s always an increase in PPV buy as he brings new eyes on the sport
2) Great string of PPVs in a row: Going back to UFC 114, there have been 3 PPVs in a row that were good, great, and GOAT-status. Fans that are satisfied with the results of good PPVs are more likely to buy subsequent fights
3) Anderson can draw against a compelling opponent: When he’s placed against someone who isn’t a "no-name", Anderson has and can draw (see Griffin)
4) A bunch of good "fights" on the card on paper: Fitch/Alves 2, JDS/Nelson and Guida/Dos Anjos were all good fights on paper and drew in hardcore fans.
That said, Sonnen did create a lot of buzz and increased the buyrate by a nice number I am sure. However, people think that it was because others wanted to see Anderson beat him while I think it was the opposite. His culturally insensitive and xenophobic remarks endeared him to a lot of America. I remember saying that before the fight that Chael and his remarks appeal to a lot of Middle America and if the buyrate increased, it would be those fans who tuned in.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean those culturally insensitive remarks about 1% of fans (if that ) would ever hear?
Goldberg on Leben: One thing's for sure--he really did break that door on the Ultimate Fighter.
Rogan: uh...yeah.
You mean the ones that were played by the UFC?
“He’s not from a bowing culture, if you go to Brazil and bow, they hit you over the head and steal your wallet”
Also Google is your friend. Lots of people use it.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
but writing for SBNation.com gives me a chance to get a very strong vibe of what the non-hardcore fans think
I think this says it all.
I also have a strong vibe that Chael Sonnen’s trash talk contributed a whole lot from checking out a number of popular major media sports websites, blogs, and forums. The exact vibe that made everybody think the “Snakes on the Plane” was going to be a huge film at the box office. It’s just an vibe from fans’ feelings online.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Aug 10, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
It does when...
you look at what similar cards headlined by Silva have done. There wasn’t a lot of star power on this card. Great talent, yes. But not the kind of stars that really drive PPV numbers.
by mma_critic on Aug 10, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Lest we forget.....
This is one of the best cards for pure talent, match-ups and overall kick-assedness in quite some time. I think the buy rate is a trifecta of talent, smack talk (Sonnen) and absolving the sins of bad cards past.
A large swath of UFC fans we’re looking for a big card to buy. Honestly speaking I think it shows a bit more intellect on the side of the common fan. Silva has never really sold fights on his lonesome. People may actually be spending to see some top guys like JDS, Nelson, Almedia, Fitch & Alves.
I didn’t mention Hughes cause he normally puts $$ up on PPV.
Play Hard, Train Harder
only the hardcores knew how great in talent this card was, and if it reached this high in PPV buys than of course it was mostly casual fans.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Not necessarily true
Fans know that Roy was the one who beat Kimbo and JDS beat Crocop
As well as Dana saying two number one contender fights, fans think “Oh, they MUST be talented”.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
naw
I just don’t see it, AS crushed Griffin, and I’m not sold he got more viewers for the Maia fight.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Who said he earned viewers for the Maia fight?
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Casual fans have no idea who Junior Dos Santos is and they certainly aren’t buying a PPV to see Roy Nelson just because he beat Kimbo.
" Real talk - A gorilla would shit kick Brock." – ElliotMatheny
You'd be surprised
Not to say he was the “sole” reason, but that is a factor.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
This makes no sense. So if I went on a ufc countdown show and shit talked Anderson Silva would a million people pay to watch me fight him?
Sonnen was flawless in delivery and material… Not alot noticed but Chael used “code” to attract all the racists to this fight and the fanbase has lots of those. republicans use this same tactic in politics.
He also got the freaken cyclists and french interested by going after lance Armstrong (versus carry’s tour de france)
I thought the Lance Armstrong bit was genius because no matter how much shit you talk about anderson that remains in the mma casual sphere.
Once he brought armstrong into the conversation the discussion reached those beyond and into the general sports sphere.
Having said that… people wanting more after 116 and huerta stomping a woman beater didnt hurt.
Sonnen was flawless in delivery and material… Not alot noticed but Chael used "code" to attract all the racists to this fight and the fanbase has lots of those. republicans use this same tactic in politics.
I’m sorry, but that was just hilarious, people that calls out ‘racist’ to racist remarks or race insensitive remarks are not racists themselves, you have a funny way of looking at things.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
It’s called a “dog whistle” – I don’t think every Republican is racist, but they sure don’t mind their votes.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 10, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
I think I read that wrong, I’ve been doing that all day today lol. I thought he meant people that were calling Sonnen racist for what he said, but I can see now that he meant actual “racists” that liked what Sonnen said. I need to stop commenting for today, but I probably won’t lol.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
i think another factor in this is the baseline continuing to grow. aside from marketing individual shows, the UFC continues to market the product as a whole very sucessfully, and it’s becoming more mainstream and widely heard-of by the day. more and more ESPN appearances by more and more fighters. I really think this run of highly-marketable cards since 144 has had a significant boost to the UFC’s overall popularity and baseline.
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
*since 114
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Aug 10, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I wholeheartedly agree
There have been 3 straight GREAT PPVs since UFC 114 which had a million buys
You could make the argument that the only readon 115 was so low (600K) was because it was 2 weeks after 114.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
The baseline is nowhere close to 900,000
I’ve been doing a lot of work recently with the numbers for UFC PPV sales, and doing 900K buys is huge. This year started out with PPVs that were maxing out at 300K. There’s growth in the sport, no doubt, but this is still a massive number of buys for Zuffa.
by mma_critic on Aug 10, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
no doubt. i was just suggesting “another factor”
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Aug 10, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
The first PPV was Coleman/Couture, that's a below average PPV, exclude that and you get a "baseline"
above 500K IIRC
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
None of the first three PPVs this year broke 300K. I’d have to double-check, but I think the buys were 300K, 270K, and 245K, but not necessarily in that order.
by mma_critic on Aug 10, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Checked
It was 300, 275, and 240, in that order. 240 was Nog-Cain. Evans-Silva was 300, and Couture-Coleman was 275.
by mma_critic on Aug 10, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s what I consider the “super hardcores will buy every card” not the “baseline” IMO.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
So, what is the "baseline" then?
Baseline gets used in a lot of ways, but the most meaningful way to me is that it’s the minimum number of buys you can expect – no stars, no big advertising push, nothing special. Just the fans who order the card because they’re fans and it’s a UFC PPV.
But I am genuinely interested to hear your thoughts on what baseline should mean. I’m not a huge fan of most of your WKR pieces, but you do bring a lot of knowledge with the comments here.
And I’m still waiting for that piece on independent contractors vs employees for WWE and UFC!!!
by mma_critic on Aug 10, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the baseline (which to me means PPV number for a decent card with decent promotion)
for a UFC fight is around 500-550K. If you put on a poor card or a card with no no promotion, you’re going to get less (i.e UFC 108-109-110).
UFC 112 has done the worst and it had a name, but it had no promotion around it. And it had those fucked up PPV times. It did 500K. It’s just my opinion that <400-450K PPVs are an anamoly now in post UFC 100 era. If the UFC does a decent job in promoting the fight and as long as it doesn’t have any “no-names”, it will do 500K. UFC 120 is one of those cards that wouldn’t draw 500K.
As for the independent contractors piece, I’m waiting to hear back from an email I sent Meltzer. I think I’ll send him another one.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough. 6 out of 15 (now 16) since UFC 100 have done less than or equal to 500K (only one of those was actually 500K). But we’ve also seen a lot of good cards since then, and they hit a slump with injuries and lackluster cards after 100.
With our different ideas of what “baseline” means, I think we’re largely in agreement.
You’ll probably see more about this elsewhere very soon, but there are 12 big names that seem to carry UFC cards, in the sense that, out of the 12 or so biggest “draws” in the UFC, at least one has actually been on every card from 2006-2010. And, even so, we still see about 40% of cards (6 of 15) draw below or just at 500K buys.
Looking forward to the other piece. Hope Meltzer gets back to you soon.
by mma_critic on Aug 10, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Well the UFC is smart to put a poor card on a free card here(UFC 120)
UFC 118 has Toney/Couture, that should do 800K
UFC 119 has The Nog show, that might do baseline 500K
UFC 121 has Lesnar/Cain, so that’s a million plus
UFC 122 is the German show. Expect a Crocop event, maybe Sonnen/Vitor here
UFC 123 Rampage, Forrest, Machida and Jones, probably 700K
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess 124 is the GSP-Kos card
Agreed about 120, and already wrote about it in something that should be online in about two weeks, if my guess is correct.
I don’t live in the US anymore, so I’m not sure what sort of mainstream attention Toney is getting. However, Couture’s PPV buys fluctuate a ton, and Penn has never been a huge draw by himself. I’m really curious to see spillover from 117 in the 118 buys, but I’m not sure that a card with Penn and Couture will do 800K.
Nog brothers won’t pull in viewers for 119, but Mir might along with Bader given his TUF appearance. That may actually draw more buys than 117, even if the hardcore fans want to see Penn-Edgar II along with Randy taking out Toney.
I won’t be surprised if 122 is on tape delay on Spike, if that hasn’t been announced.
Griffin is actually a good draw, so I won’t be suprised if that is the biggest one after 121 since it also has Rampage, Machida, and Jones (and those four are in the main and co-main).
by mma_critic on Aug 10, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
"I won’t be surprised if 122 is on tape delay on Spike, if that hasn’t been announced."
I think that was announced last week…
where did you hear
that Forrest and Jones are going to be on the 123 card? I can’t find it anywhere online
I don't want to be a dick for posting this link
so I’ll just post the result:
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/8/9/1614404/jon-jones-vs-forrest-griffin
And the link that I was going to post (which starts by listing less credible sources than MMABAY) was: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ufc+123+forrest
by mma_critic on Aug 10, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn
That would be 2 exciting, but very one-sided fights. I think Jones would more thoroughly dominate Griffin than Machida will Rampage…
Maybe this is Forrest’s “reward” for pulling out of the Little Nog “bad matchup for me” fight…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Arthur Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 10, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I bet he wishes he had taken that fight now
but i did hear/read that he was recovering from some shoulder surgery. could be BS, but this is not a good matchup for Forrest
I usually don’t disagree or bash your writing, but this comment is debatable at best.
If you don’t like trash talk before fights, cover your ears. And if you think Sonnen was bad, James Toney makes him look like an amateur.Sonnen is the undisputed Champion of trash talk. When I can understand James his trash talk is elementary at best.
I get more rec's than a Toyota!
by DayGeaux on Aug 10, 2010 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 10 recs
Sonnen’s a pretty funny guy. Toney is just dumb, and has a speech impediment.
...like young thieves in a glowing orchard, loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing.
- C. McCarthy
I think a long career of eating punches problems gave him some of the impediment.
He’s not stupid. He’s also been loyal to his handlers for years in the era of Don King. Points for that. Same with Marvin Hagler. Loyalty matters.
Agreed. Toney makes Shannon Sharpe seem articulate and easy to understand.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
James’ trash talk is basically “I’m the best” said in different ways.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 10, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh...
and tying that to a drastic misunderstanding of his own skills (understandable) and value (not as understandable)
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 10, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
and requires sub titles
Twitter @i_c_u_hater
http://dreamthemez.wordpress.com
http://dreamthemez.unfilteredmma.com
http://fightlife.unfilteredmma.com
by Thats It For you! on Aug 10, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
This is so awesome
The two best UFC’s in a long, long time are doing the best numbers we’ve seen since in over a year. I can’t even guess how many fans the UFC made this summer.
...like young thieves in a glowing orchard, loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing.
- C. McCarthy
Not to mention AldovsFaber back in April
Which did a lot better than I thought.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
but don't forget that UFC 114 was a stinker
and had a lot of new customers as well.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Sure hasn’t seemed to turn them off since then.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 10, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Woah close to 1mill?
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
Twitter Handle = @xFenixKnightx
Excellent!
Yes, it’s good to see a hard working fighter work the crowd and get the ppv’s as well as fight his ass off backing EVERYTHING up. Note to haters: Yes, I realize he lost the damn fight.
the problem though
is that he isn’t going to get a cut of the PPV buys (from what I understand). but at least he’s putting his name out there.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
and putting his name out there will get him more money in terms of the opportunities it creates and in making his sponsors happy.
Getting a cut of PPV buys from zuffa is not the only way fighters’ make money by being on big ppvs.
If this sells 900K...
then I have no doubt that Zuffa is writing a very big undisclosed bonus check to Chael Sonnen. No doubt at all.
by mma_critic on Aug 10, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Getting your name out there
coupled with ALMOST winning the middleweight title from a p4p #1 can’t hurt the wallet.
Looks like those of us who said that Chael Sonnen’s brilliant use of pro-wrestling promotional tactics would work to get the UFC’s least popular champ over with the PPV buying public were spot on.
While I’m sure Chael Sonnen’s trash talk helped a lot to sell the fight. It is not necessarily the # contributing factor and there’s really no proof to indicate that that’s the reason why fans purchased UFC 117.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
i'm all ears for alternate theories
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Aug 10, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t have any other theories. Sure he was a factor, but there’s nothing to indicate that he was “the” major factor. There was a lot of other things factors that may have contributed to the high PPV rate.
But without any hard raw data, this is simply a theory at best.
- The film Snakes on a Plane had a crazy buzz online, but performed horribly at the box office. Yes many people feel you need a huge internet buzz but it doesn’t necessarily equals success.
- Floyd Mayweather Jr. has began talking trash a little bit prior to his De La Hoya fight but didn’t become a star until the event. Oscar De La Hoya’s star power played an important factor in the huge PPV numbers and Mayweather’s subsequent rise in fame.
- Anderson Silva’s crazy UFC 112 behavior probably was a contributing factor because the question on many reporters mind was what was he going to do next? And will he get fired if he flipped?
In the end, what we feel, what we know as bloggers, fans, etc. is all good but doesn’t give us a sure shot indication of what drives the paying public to purchase a PPV.
For the record I agree, Sonnen really did help sell the fight and create an interest. I can also say that the buzz was largely online.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Aug 10, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Movies are bad analogies
There’s a big “reputation effect” with movies where, after opening weekend, there’s usually a buzz about a supposed blockbuster either being amazing or terrible. Dana made a similar point at the post-fight press conference where he said everyone is complaining about the 120 card, but you can’t complain until after it’s over and you know how it was. With big movies, you usually know ahead of time whether people think it’s good.
by mma_critic on Aug 10, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
There was a big online buzz about machida/Shogun 2 and it ended up only doing 20K more buys
And it had KIMBO on the card
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Snakes on a Plane is a particularly interesting movie because it had a buzz WELL before principal photography began ONLINE.
For a better indicator take a look at Floyd Mayweather’s career and his level of trash talking compared to a guy like say . . . Zab Judah who doesn’t know when to stop putting his foot in his mouth. The trash talk did not always equate PPV success.
Now you have a fighter like James Toney who will say anything and EVERYTHING, including knocking out Dana White . . . but that doesn’t mean casual fans will purchase a PPV just because he has diarrhea of the mouth.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Aug 10, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally I never gave two shits about this fight or Chael Sonnen until he opened his mouth.
I get more rec's than a Toyota!
by DayGeaux on Aug 10, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
i was more intrigued by the Roy/JDS
fight, but Chael’s talk definitely made me buy it as opposed to going to the bar to watch it for free
Sonnen’s shit talking definitely moved this PPV from the ’I’ll pitch in if someone else wants to buy it’ list to the ’I’ve got to start making calls right now and lining up a crew to come over and watch this’ list. Sonnen’s mouth definitely had a big impact on me.
by Steve4192 on Aug 10, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would always be game to watch any Silva fight
but Sonnen’s talk made me really wanna see him get beat up.
Dude
Seriously? I’m a Sonnen fan but I was even thinking it may end up like a Silva Franklin fight, which I wouldn’t want to see, let alone pay for. Especially when you look at A.S. ppv rates prior to this. That’s the crowning game ender for debate.
See my reply to Kid Nate.
Note, unless you have proof that Chael’s campaign was incredibly more influential than
- Matt Hughes appearing on the card. A name that carries years of brand recognition.
- A heavyweight fight with two KO artist.
- The return of an enigmatic champion
- The countless amount of dollars the UFC puts into ad placement and TV spots.
- Th press coverage that has been building up from previous UFC events like the GREAT UFC 116 Lesnar vs Carwin.
- and a whole host of contributing factors that I can list . . .
Without the hard data we can’t simply state “Chael Sonnen’s brilliant use of pro-wrestling promotional tactics would work to get the UFC’s least popular champ over with the PPV buying public” it’s just a theory. But like I said, yes, Chael Sonnen’s comedic tour helped a whole lot.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Aug 10, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
I’m sure Sonnen helped promote the fight, but there’s a ton of other reasons this could have done well.
It had two #1 contender fights, plus Guida and Hughes!
And who knows, maybe Silva’s antics in the Maia fight made more people tune in, not less, just to see what the heck he was going to do.
by Clifford J on Aug 10, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I posted this on WKR
To put this all on Sonnen is an overstatement, he certainly played a part, however
1) Post-Lesnar bump. After Lesnar fights, there’s always an increase in PPV buy as he brings new eyes on the sport
2) Great string of PPVs in a row: Going back to UFC 114, there have been 3 PPVs in a row that were good, great, and GOAT-status. Fans that are satisfied with the results of good PPVs are more likely to buy subsequent fights
3) Anderson can draw against a compelling opponent: When he’s placed against someone who isn’t a "no-name", Anderson has and can draw (see Griffin)
4) A bunch of good "fights" on the card on paper: Fitch/Alves 2, JDS/Nelson and Guida/Dos Anjos were all good fights on paper and drew in hardcore fans.
That said, Sonnen did create a lot of buzz and increased the buyrate by a nice number I am sure. However, people think that it was because others wanted to see Anderson beat him while I think it was the opposite. His culturally insensitive and xenophobic remarks endeared him to a lot of America. I remember saying that before the fight that Chael and his remarks appeal to a lot of Middle America and if the buyrate increased, it would be those fans who tuned in.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting note:
Chael got booed in the arena by a crowd that was chanting “USA!” during every fight all night. Then people started chanting “USA!” again during the Sonnen-Silva fight after booing the guy from the US.
I have no fucking clue what this means about xenophobia in MMA.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
The "at event" audience usually does not represent the viewing audience
Remember at teh weigh-in, Chael got cheered at the beginning and then booed.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true.
I draw no conclusions based on what I just said. It happened and is curious, and my brain leaves it at that.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
1) Post-Lesnar bump. After Lesnar fights, there’s always an increase in PPV buy as he brings new eyes on the sport
How many buys did ufc 88 do? 480,000 is the answer. Just because 101 did a big number doesn’t mean it was only because of Brock.
Was Lesnar the champion? Did UFC 87 draw almost a million?
No. Clearly we’re talking about champion or title contender Brock Lesnar. If you don’t think he brings eyes to the sport, you’re almost retarded.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Then why are these new fans only buying the card directly after he fights? They are only his fans when he fights and the month after? I’m not saying this is totally wrong but there’s no proof.
They bought for the Lesnar card, liked it and stuck around for the next couple cards
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
As for proof, there's just as much proof of that (actually more)
than there is that Chael created this increase in buyrates
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll concede there's no proof, if you'll do the same as there is just as much "proof" for both points
Since we can’t talk to the buyers, we don’t know that they bought for Chael or that they stuck around after Lesnar.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I spelled this out in a fanpost
The circumstantial evidence is fairly strong:
1) 81 with Big Nog and Tim Sylvia was sold solely on the strength of Brock’s name. 300,000 of the buys were 1st time ppv purchasers
2) UFC 87 did 100,000 more than GSP previous grudge match against Matt Serra. And this was after Brock lost to Mir derailing the hype.
3) UFC 91 did twice what the previous two Randy Couture fights did.
And now to quote (with one correction) my own fanpost:
- Seven times the UFC has crossed the 1 million buy mark. 6 of those cards are in the post Brock Championship era.
- Of those five cards, three of them had Brock as the headliner. Those were also Brock’s only three appearances during this period. Two others were in the immediate following card.
- The 10 cards before UFC 91 averaged 451,000 buys. This magically jumped to 782,000 for the next 10, starting with his title shot.
- The downturn experienced last winter coincided with the cancellation of Lesnar’s title defense against Carwin and the news that he may never fight again after falling ill to diverticulitis.
- this downturn ended roughly at the same time it was officially announced that Brock would fight again some time over the Summer against the winner of Mir/Carwin.
Attributing Chael's draw to "his culturaly insenstive and xenophobic remarks" is low.
When you have little choice but to finally attribute some of the buy rate to Sonnen you immediately find a way to make that a negative.
I cannot believe you really think that it was a small number of admittedly ill advised comments that led to 200-400K of added buys. Astonishing.
Who said it was 200-400K buys added by Chael?
Where are you getting that from?
And it’s not a negative. Tyson’s crazy shit made people tune into his fights. It happens.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
What you implied was, "Yes Chael drew in extra buys, but they were from racist rednecks, so who cares?"
Implying that the drawing power of Chael is down to his xenophobic remarks paints him and his promotion skills in a negative light. It is always a negative to be associated to xenophobic remarks whether they bring interest or not. It may be positive in terms of some more “select” (read: racist) people tune in but, morally at least, it is always going to be negative.
It just seems that you can’t lift this man up without knocking him straight back down again.
I cannot stress enough how much I disagree with you on this. I believe that the public listened to him cut promo after promo filled with amusing, hype-driven one-liners and thought, “I wonder if his fists can back up his mouth?”. Normal people, not racists.
Although I think that maybe I should accept that you and I just have widely differing opinions on certain things and that I shouldn’t get so enraged by your posts.
The 200-400K figure is a finger in the wind estimate, but I do believe it is in that region. But depends on the final buy rate and how much you factor in any post UFC 116 hangover, etc..
Why do you believe it is in that region?
Why is Chael the one who added that many PPV buys? That’s my question.
Just because Chael talked shit and Anderson (against pisspoor fighters) draws bad, doesn’t mean the buyrate was Chael’s doing.
As for the xenophobic remarks, many of his most publicized “shittalking” was in regards to Brazil, Portuguese and dissing other Brazilians. People, outside of PC police, don’t care what a man says in shittalking. So saying he was xenophobic isn’t negative, it’s just a fact.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
It was a comment, not a piece
However, I think I am compelled
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
lol every one wanted chael to get shutup, it’s just amazing that he brought it more then anyone has brought it before.
"How you expect to run with the wolves come night when you spend all day sparring with the puppies" - Omar Little
by The Omaplatapus on Aug 10, 2010 1:46 PM EDT reply actions
I doubt that was the reason why people bought the card
I think if they bought it for Chael, most bought it because they liked what he said.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
While Toney may be a better shit talker, Sonnen has one very real advantage over him – Sonnen is a legit threat in the cage. Unless Toney pulls off a miracle that leaves Douglas-Tyson coughing dust in the rearview mirror, his smacktalk will sound more and more like the ramblings of a delusional man. Sonnen, on the other hand, is – for the moment, at least – a legitimate threat to anyone within the division, which automatically gives his talk more weight.
You don't like wrestling in MMA? Go watch K-1.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Aug 10, 2010 1:53 PM EDT reply actions
With multiple million buy ppv's this year
will the price of ppv’s go down, its getting harder and harder to convince the old lady to keep ordering and only a couple buddies throw in whenever somebody host (ppv+food and drinks = $$$)
C’mon zuffa, either more free cards or at least drop the standard def ppv to $30, please.
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
That'll never happen...
if the buys remain at this level I’d be shocked if they don’t raise it $5 eventually.
1 million buys at $50 a pop = $50000000
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 10, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Er…that was supposed to go on to explain that 900,000 buys at 55 a pop was close to break even so they could add $5 and not be hurt if 10% of the audience went "too rich for my taste.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 10, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
"now if only we could cut those damn cable co's out of the mix..."
www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology
maybe, but not without a fight. this is why the net neutrality debate is going to get more and more fierce. there will be a lot of powerful companies doing a lot of lobbying.
www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology
The UFC will go back to providers and demand a bigger share of the pie
Just like big boxing matches get. The UFC will shoot for 60-65% or they should.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
People complain about Dana taking too big of a piece of the pie
When the PPV companies are taking far more.
Well the PPV companies do provide the medium
It’s a partnership.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
wouldn't another factor in this buyrate between the amount of time between ppvs?
was nearly a month between 116 and 117? more time to hype it, fewer fans who just recently purchased a card, not being able to afford this one, etc…
holy typos
that should’ve said "wouldn’t another factor resulting in this buyrate be the amount of time between ppvs?
Imagine the numbers this would have done with a 24/7 of Sonnen running his mouth...
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
seriously though
this is another reason why I think there will be a rematch, February or so…
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
by Orcus on Aug 10, 2010 2:07 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This event had a few friends watch a fight independently of my direct influence(HEY LETS WATCH THIS WHAT ARE YOU DOING) for the first time ever. I was surprised to log on to facebook and get messages saying “I BET ANDERSON SILVA MADE YOU CUM” and the like. I also watched it at a friends house in what I believe was the first event he didn’t stream and had people over for. The interest was there, I didn’t bother to probe why at the time. People who were off doing other things sat down at least to watch the Silva fight.
a kitten dies every time you compare an individual sport to a team sport.
by Marvin Malehooves on Aug 10, 2010 2:10 PM EDT reply actions
Not for nuthin, but...
This card also had a TUF winner on it. Jus’ sayin.
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton
What I mean by that is if Huerta could possibly generate 50K by whipping an asshole online, couldn’t it be possible Roy picked up 200K or so fat casuals during his stint on TUF. 50 – 100K of which purchased the PPV hoping he would earn a title shot?
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton
That's what I said also
Roy was on the biggest season ever and beat Kimbo. He has a lot of fans.
Also his look. “Oh shit, the fat guy is fighting.”
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
My dad isn’t fat but an average dude and when he saw Nelson fight at the finale he ate it up. Couldn’t stop laughing after Nelson won and started rubbing his belly.
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton
Can we all shut up about Anderson's terrible buy rates now?
Sure he was slow to build a following, but based on recent outings he has out done larger numbers than other champions like B.J. Penn and Machida.
Huh? His last two fights he was on the card with BJ and I’m not buying that he had anything to do with the large number on this one.
His biggest PPV was headlined by Penn. The biggest one he headlined was against Leitas, which might explain why he hasn’t drawn the same since.
by mma_critic on Aug 10, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
UFC 107 did very good numbers, 620,000.
by ufc4 on Aug 10, 2010 3:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nothing mind blowing though, plus
UFC 117 did very good numbers, 900,000 +
How can we legitimately say that Penn out draws Silva now? There is no evidence one way or the other.
You put him against piss poor opponents, he can't draw
But you can say that about EVERYONE in the UFC outside of GSP, Lesnar, and BJ. Rashad got less than 300K against Silva, but a mil against Rampage. Rampage got 350K against Jardine and a mil against Rampage.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
See right above
Biggest card Silva headlined was against Leitas.
by mma_critic on Aug 10, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
But it was his biggest draw as a headliner
I do agree about the point you’re making with Rampage and Rashad. But the piss poor opponent thing fails when his biggest draw was against the piss poorest opponent of all.
by mma_critic on Aug 10, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Chuck Vs Shogun is the reason that 97 did well.
Everyone wanted to see if the Chuckwagon could get rolling again.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
There are a million factors that go into every buy rate.
Saying Silva is better or worse than Penn or Machida or Rua is silly.
The data shows that a complete lack of consistency is the only thing that is consistent, outside of GSP and Lesnar that is. Everything else come down to match ups and the under card.
Oh, "Everything else come down to match ups and the under card..." and...
marketing and media interest and story lines and TUF seasons and TUF winners and speaking English and not being / being Brazilian.
Chuck has a base of loyal fans. Silva doesn’t.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
The Leites fight was also after a string of devastating wins
And it had Chuck on the card
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh wait... I don't agree about the BJ part though.
Look at BJ’s cards that didn’t feature GSP or Silva…
Silva’s last two shows where he was the main event have been higher than ANY BJ Penn show that didn’t feature Silva or GSP.
Well
The one before UFC 117 had Chuck on the card
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
...and BJ's previous numbers were...
UFC 80: Penn vs Stevenson did 225,000 buys
- This card also featured Gonzaga (fresh off a title fight) vs Werdum, Kendall Grove (TUF win)
UFC 84: Penn (champ) vs Sherk (former champ) did 475,000 buys
- This card also featured Wanderlei, Jardine, Ortiz (former champ), Carwin, Machida, T. Silva
Those were eons ago
Gotta do better.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
So they’ve broken the PPV record that they set last year… In August.
They have another BROCKLESNARRRRR!!!!!! and a GSP coming up in November and December, so there’s another 2 million PPVs.
I know exactly what caused the high buyrate for 117: Zuffa’s lawyers shutting down stream sites.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
Holy shit, I forgot about that
I mentioned that a couple weeks ago and in the aftermath of the fight, I forgot.
Zuffa estimated over 200K users watched on streams.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
How many of those 200K do you think would pay?
25K? 50K? 75K?
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton
Depends. The ones who were hosting parties watching priated HD on their big screens probably wouldn’t be too pleased with watching poor quality streams and have ponied up the dough and bought the PPV.
There is no reliable way to attach a number to that.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
Well, from the start you would have to cut it down to the number of people who couldn’t simply find another stream. That in itself would have to be down to – or maybe even below – the numbers you’re talking about. Then I’d imagine like a fraction of those people would give in and buy.
by Brent Ducharme on Aug 10, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
That 200K was based only on Justin.tv and Ustream
The only people who use that for streams are idiots. I would say the 200K number is less than 1/2 of what the actual number is. I could’ve streamed it on 3 different streams all HD and it took me 2 mins to find those. The people that use Ustream and Justin aren’t that smart. Many would’ve just bought it.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, I didn’t realize the numbers were based off those streams specifically, although the numbers do sound reasonable that way.
In that case, good call. Probably a fair number of those people who would make the purchase.
by Brent Ducharme on Aug 10, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Were those subscription streams? I’m one of those idiots btw. Did you just use Google b/c I get a lot of trash when I use Google?
Disclaimer: I buy all UFC and SF events that are available to do so, but I’m not getting Showtime two or three times a year to watch SF.
I get more rec's than a Toyota!
You gotta step your stream game up
Not that I advocate streaming. LOL
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Sonnen should be handed a $100,000 check
He, by his lonesome, accounted for an extra 300k-400k buys. Like I said yesterday, If Sonnen hadn’t said a word, 117 wouldn’t have done half the PPV it did, imo.
Anderson versus Good Wrestler Guy? Who cares? But against Chael "I’m gonna put him on his back more times than a hooker with a mortgage" Sonnen? Big PPV $$$…
by Dootch on Aug 10, 2010 3:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
More than that IMO
Sonnen should walk away with a mil.
/sarcasm
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 10, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I noticed recently what was mentioned at the end about 118
It almost seems like they are promoting it as two different events or at least using two different streams of promotion. There is the UFC vs Boxing promo, and then there is the Penn/Edgar 2 promo. On top of that, there is the classic short 30-sec UFC spot that covers both.
I think in this way they hit all the spots they want to nice and concisely:Casual fans will gravitate towards UFC vs Boxing and regular MMA/UFC fans salivate over Penn/Edgar 2 (in addition, a legion of casual fans salivate over BJ Penn period).
Lookes like we can add another feather to Sonnen’s cap after doing the impossible, seriously this guy is becoming more legendary by the day in and out of the cage.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
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