The Boxing Build: Why Jon Jones Should Fight Chuck Liddell Next
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 2, 2010 12:14 AM EDT
in MMA Events
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Jon Jones impressed me tonight. He took apart a top wrestler in Vladimir Matyushenko, manhandling him and beating him like a rented mule. It was like a man toying with a child-a man with an 84 inch reach and incredible speed and strength.
Jones has beaten two failed prospects (Brandon Vera and Stephan Bonnar) a journeyman (Matt Hamill) and an aged contender (Matyushenko). Now it's time for the top prospect to get famous-and that's not going to happen fighting Jason Brillz or Thiago Silva. Jones has been given a steady build, slowly making his way up to the top of the ladder. There is only one opponent that makes sense to help further propel Jones to superstardom: Chuck Liddell.
It's a matchup that would be obvious in boxing. We've seen it time and again, often with the biggest names in the entire sport. Oscar De La Hoya became one of the most polarizing fighters in history by whipping the aging legend Julio Cesar Chavez. Mike Tyson won over critics and solidified his status by beating back Larry Holmes, who was dragged kicking and screaming out of a lounge chair in Easton, Pennsylvania to fight the young star. Holmes wanted no part of Tyson. Don King and a bag of cash changed his mind:
I knew that I couldn't beat Mike Tyson. But again ... Don King calls. I was off two years with my band, traveling around with Kool and the Gang, the Temptations, singing ding ding ding, you know?
And drinking them -- Budweisers and stuff like that. And a knock on the door, Don King, three in the morning. 'Larry, open the door.' I said, 'Well, what are you doing, man?'
King said, 'I want you to fight Mike Tyson.' I said, 'You must be crazy. I can't beat Mike Tyson. I ain't did nothing for two years.' King said, 'It's three and a half million dollars.' I said, 'Well, come on in.'
He said, 'But you got two months to get ready for the fight.' I have two months? I said, 'Man, two months?' He said, 'Well, you have three and a half million.' And I said, 'I can't beat Mike Tyson in two months, man.' King 'Here is 500,000 cash.' I said, 'OK.'
That's the role of the former champion. I think we all know a truth that Dana White is still denying-Chuck Liddell won't leave gracefully. He's going to have to be beaten out of the sport. Why waste that opportunity on a used up Rich Franklin? And why risk your stellar young prospect against a tough unknown like Silva?
Top prospect and has-been champion. It's a proven matchup, one that has turned promising young boxing stars into box office attractions. And if a miracle happens you can immediately insert Liddell into a title fight in a real life Rocky Balboa story. Dana should put his feelings aside and make this fight. It's what Liddell needs to move on. It's what Jones needs to be a star.
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Nice
And then the UFC has its first in-Octagon death and we’ll all be watching amateur boxing again because MMA is outlawed in the US.
Your parents must be siblings.
by IKilled007 on Aug 1, 2010 11:44 PM EDT reply actions 8 recs
TITO ORTIZ!
If we’re going to make this a snuff film, book him against Tito. It fits the criteria of a former champion, past his prime, with the added bonus of never having to hear from Tito again.
by FragglesHateKos on Aug 1, 2010 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Frankly
I’ll honestly be stunned if Tito does not pull out of this next fight. I have a sneaking suspicion he is permanently injured. And if he is not retired, like I think he is, not even Jenna Jameson’s sweet sweet skills could convince him to sign the contract for a Jones fight.
Your parents must be siblings.
terrible idea...
A guy that is walking thru tough opponents against a guy who we all fear will be in the ICU if he fights again. I see no logic in this
right, i agree
jonathan, your justification for this fight is to propel jones to stardom? i think he’s well on the way already, but what about chuck’s well being? i mean, one shot to the chin and he’s out. Are you asking the ufc to sweep one fighter’s safety under the rug to help build a rising star?
this makes no sense to me
THIS SUCKS.
This is an incredibly horrible idea. Why anyone would be interested in watching check fight again, let alone against jon jones, is beyond me. JonathanSnowden = epic troll.
Forrest Griffon?
Am i the only one who thinks this fight would be awesome? it makes sence right now too. i think that fight would do great with paper view buys
I'm telling you whenever I watch fights on paperview my screen is always blank.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
by SSreporters on Aug 1, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 11 recs
But, you can always crumple it up and shoot a wastebasket three with it
Life is hard....get a fucking helmet.
by Skoobs on Aug 1, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this is the way to go.
Forrest is as bigger or bigger than Jones, and is a dog in there. He’s a former champion, and won’t die if Jones lays a hand on him (Liddell).’
Besides, I think Jones would be a favorite to win, Forrest is slightly overrated and wins fights against tough grinders but loses to skilled strikers.
Vote Quimby
I agree
I think Jones/ Forrest makes the most sense from a business & sporting standpoint.
I also like Bones against Randy (given that he beats Toney, which he should)
Xtreme Couture (Vegas) & The Hit Pit (Spokane WA) REPRESENT
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Aug 2, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Its a sound idea in principle
But any of Liddell, Couture, Rampage, Griffin or Franklin would provide about the same benefit.
To really become more well known, Jones needs to destroy an icon.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Aug 2, 2010 3:05 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Never Happen
That fight would never happen. Why? I seem to remember someone named Forrest get demolished by a tall lanky black dude with incredible speed and striking. I feel like he ran out of the ring after being KO’d and didn’t speak to anyone. Was that the same guy?
You have to be joking.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
by SSreporters on Aug 1, 2010 11:44 PM EDT reply actions 13 recs
There is actually some merit to Snowden’s argument, and he does back it up with evidence from boxing. It isn’t the most moral fights to make considering how badly Liddell has been KOed in his last fights, but in a business-sense, it does make sense. This idea requires that one doesn’t let their emotions get in the way, and for business, it has worked for boxing and to use another example, it has worked for professional wrestling in that it is the older established veteran giving the “rub” to the younger star. Like I said though, I see why it makes sense for business, but I wouldn’t want to see it happen.
The problem is the specific opponent
Like Chuck or hate him, most MMA fans know his next fight might end with him on life support. Rich Franklin isn’t the striker Jon Jones is, and had a broken arm as well. I shudder to think what would happen to Chuck is Jones throws the hellbows on him.
Couture, Rampage, Griffin or Franklin would all serve the same purpose without the ending being a recreation of “Old Yeller.”
"I might know a couple things that you don't know. 'Cause I've been young, but you ain't never been old." - Elvin Bishop
You’re trying to say that Jones is a better striker than Franklin?
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 2, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
His elbows do more damage than Rich's fists, yes.
I don’t need to see Chuck’s face taking 12 elbows while he’s on the ground and then we hear about what physical therapy rehab center he’s staying at for the next 6 months as he regains use of his facial muscles. And is Jones a better striker than Rich Franklin was with a broken arm? Sure. Because the Rich Franklin that KTFO’d Chuck had a BROKEN ARM.
"I might know a couple things that you don't know. 'Cause I've been young, but you ain't never been old." - Elvin Bishop
And is Jones a better striker than Rich Franklin was with a broken arm? Sure.
Well, if you put it that way.
But then again, it’s not like you put one handed Franklin in the cage with Chuck and he’ll knock him out. I mean, he knocked him out while fighting with broken arm, but it was Chuck who broke it and the final exchange was a coin flip. Up to that point Chuck looked relatively good.
Jones could probably take Liddel down and GnP him, but he is a step up from Matyushenko, maybe not as big as fans would like to see, but still…
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 2, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think you’re bang on here Snowden.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
I don't want more brain damage for Chuck
Bones could quite possibly KO him with a standing elbow.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
Not that I like it for Chuck Liddell, but if he insists on fighting, let’s sacrifice him to the MMA Gods.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 1, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
He said he would retire if Dana cut him.
He said he knew Dana could still make money off of him and if he went as far as cutting him it would be as a friend, not a business man. He would not fight elsewhere, he would retire.
It makes sense
But I would much rather see Dana stick too his guns and retire Chuck without further punishment
I don't think anybody is arguing that that is ideal
Just that its unlikely.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Me too
I just don’t trust Dana is all.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Oh god no.
Jones would knock the tatoos off his head
Vote Quimby
I think my sarcasm radar is off.
Seriously is this a satire?
These might be the stupidest words ever written in a serious manner.
by natan106 on Aug 1, 2010 11:45 PM EDT reply actions 13 recs
They've been talking about writing strange posts
in order to drive traffic. I’m guessing that’s what this is. It definitely doesn’t make any sense. For anyone.
Not Jon Jones, nor Dana White, nor Chuck Liddell…and certainly not Jonathan Snowden.
I would love to hear how this doesn’t make sense for Jon Jones. A gimmie fight that makes him rich is bad?
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
A fight that proves absolutely nothing
Does Chuck Liddell really have a chance? Really? He was just KTFO by Rampage, Evans, Rua, and now Rich Franklin. His chin is made of cotton.
I fail to see how this would even mean as much for Jones as his victory over Stephan Bonnar at this point. At least Bonnar is coming off of a win instead of a string of knockout losses. They might as well just have a rematch. I’d rather see that than Chuck endure needless brain damage and improve only his lisp.
Chuck was just knocked out by Rich, for chrissake! The only way this matchup makes sense is if Jones signs a pre-bout agreement to go into the fight with his hands tied behind his back and promises that he will only attempt to win via flying knee KO.
Jones winning this fight
Is like a kid beating a defenseless, toothless bum up with a baseball bat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUaEPy_7VRo
It actually serves to make Jones look bad for having taken the fight. He comes out looking worse than when he went in.
Did Royce Gracie vs Matt Hughes make sense at UFC 60?
It didn’t make any competitive sense but it did establish the “new” UFC as a real factor for casual fans who tuned out after UFC 5.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I still remember all the dorks on Sherdog saying Gracie was going to win.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
Couture/Coleman was just as bad
Renzo/Hughes too.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
I didn’t think Renzo/Hughes was that bad.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
So we should throw out legitimacy and safety in the name of Jones' stardom or a few more bucks for the UFC?
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
Wow
Did Chuck Liddell run over your dog? Why would you want to see him get killed? Seriously though, I get your point. But I don’t think it’s a good idea or safe one.
by FragglesHateKos on Aug 1, 2010 11:46 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
surely you’re kidding man
i agree with alot of the stuff you say
but damn
jones would not only end chucks career but would probably end chucks life
we don’t need to see that
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 1, 2010 11:47 PM EDT reply actions
In case you're not kidding
I’ll throw one back at ya: Randy Couture vs. Jon Jones
I’m dead serious. That’d be an awesome fight to build Jones up, especially coming off the Toney win.
I can't imagine the UFC
Would be willing to end Randy’s career right now.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
I think his career’s pretty much over, already. He looked so stiff against Coleman it made my bones hurt.
He can still draw though
And with favorable matchups like Toney he can still be interesting for a few more fights.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
I would rather sacrifice Tito
GSP is an alien sent here to humiliate our men and mate with our women
by MMA_Messiah on Aug 1, 2010 11:48 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
I thought about this one, but Tito isn’t popular enough. This would have worked well before the most recent comeback. I would put this on SPIKE TV by the way, to maximize eyeballs on Jones.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 1, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Because those are dwindling. They could make it a night dedicated to Chuck Liddell, feature highlights, great fights, and have him do the whole “This is my last fight” bit, and if he wins, you “Rocky” him, if he loses, you gave him one last fight against an up and coming fighter, on a big stage.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 1, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Spike isn’t a big monetary stage. He makes a shitload of money from PPV. You can dress it up as pretty as you want, but it still would never make sense for Chuck. He’s still a PPV draw, unfortunately.
http://www.instrength.com
They make him a deal: you want to fight? It’s on SPIKE. Against Jones. For $1 million. Bet he takes it.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 1, 2010 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. If they were to do this, they’d want as many people watching as possible. On free TV they can hype the hell out of it, and make it a big thing. The idea is to get viewers and fans for Jones, Chuck can be negotiated with.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 2, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
So they give away a PPV-worthy fight for free, and bump up his pay into the stratosphere without any income coming in to cover it. To put over Jon Jones. That doesn’t make much business sense to me.
http://www.instrength.com
That’s a pretty easy fix man, just don’t put your money men on the undercard. It’s do-able. And if they found the possible gain to be worth it, I’m sure it’d be a non-issue.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 2, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
SPIKE has helped foot the bill for major stars before. Plus, the long term prospects for Jones are immeasurable.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 2, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough. I think the long term prospects for Jones are at heavyweight personally, but I agree with the basic premise of the the old guy putting over the new guy. I just don’t think it should be done on Spike. It sets a dangerous precedent. You yourself don’t like them selling PPV’s with less than top-caliber fighters. This is a PPV fight.
http://www.instrength.com
That precedent has been set long ago.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 2, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
In MMA, might I add.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 2, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
No, it wasn’t. As far as I know, they’ve never put a guy with PPV points on a fight night in his own division.
http://www.instrength.com
He’s probably covering his ass in case I were to mention Anderson Silva fighting James Irvin.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 2, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Well fuck me runnin’, I read what you said wrong. After a sit down with the english language, I now retract my statement.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 2, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
True. I stand corrected. The reasoning behind that one was different, but I was wrong.
http://www.instrength.com
Wait a sec
Did Tito have PPV points at that time? He had fought in the 3 spot on PPV for the 2 prior cards and had signed a new deal after his extended break following the Belfort fight hadn’t he?
http://www.instrength.com
Give Chuck a Mill?
And guess how much Brock will want for his upcoming fights. You go that high for a guy who is finished you let the horse out of the barn. Never happen.
I think they swap out Matt Hamill for Jon Jones at UFC 121
Jon gets the Lesner eyeballs….Tito still gets his big PPV payday.
Jon gets whatever is left of Tito’s fame….and Tito retires with an actual cracked skull.
win, win and win.
GSP is an alien sent here to humiliate our men and mate with our women
by MMA_Messiah on Aug 1, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 12 recs
now this i would see
someone send tonya harding’s boys over to Hammil’s camp >_>
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Aug 1, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
"Um, Matt, about that staph infection...
Yeah, our doctors said it came back, You can’t fight Tito. Really. No, we didn’t need a new blood test to prove it, we just know it came back, OK? Now here’s a check for $100,000 to go pay for some antibiotics. Jon, you ready to fight Tito?"
"I might know a couple things that you don't know. 'Cause I've been young, but you ain't never been old." - Elvin Bishop
There’s probably something to be gained by being the guy who smashed Tito Ortiz (whom everyone hates).
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Aug 2, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
The UFC's already done this with Chuck
A couple of times. They used Chuck as a stepping stone for both Rashad and Shogun. He’s already doe his job of promoting up and coming stars, this just seems like overkill.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Chuck was favored over Rashad
and until he chased him into the corner and dropped his hands was bullying him around the cage.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
That's a good point
And the Shogun fight was kind of a pick em, considering Shogun’s form. But still, he served his purpose.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
What really stings about these Chuck KO’s, is that he doesn’t look bad at all. He was beating Rashad, and Franklin until the dynamite got dropped. If his chin wasn’t shot, he’d be beating great fighters still. Thats what has to make it so hard for him to stop now.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 1, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Chuck would die.
I don’t think the commission would even allow this fight.
by Polyhedron on Aug 1, 2010 11:48 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Seriously people, disagree with him if you wish, but Snowden backed up the suggest quite well. Doesn’t mean we don’t have to pity Chuck, but from a Jon Jones/UFC perspective it works great. From a Chuck/Dana White perspective though, it sucks.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
hey jon i love your book but this post makes you look like a jerk
by Richard Doughty on Aug 1, 2010 11:50 PM EDT reply actions
Jean Snowden...
I am not impress by your performance. Dis is da worse idea I ’ave ever red. Jean Jones should be on fight for title not guy ’oo get knock out by ripper ’ard knocker.
I do ’ave one question, do you come up wid all ove you ’orrible idea on you own or do you ’ave ’elp?
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
by Ubernoober on Aug 1, 2010 11:50 PM EDT reply actions 34 recs
This is hilarious.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
This is the best thing I have ever read ever.
Including when I got that pregnancy test read on Maury. I AM NOT THE FATHER!!!!
"don’t leave him alone in a room with some angel dust and a pile of playgirls." - ufc4 on Kid Nate.
by Earl Montclair on Aug 2, 2010 4:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Snowden, I thought you'd finally lost it
And then I read this:
I think we all know a truth that Dana White is still denying-Chuck Liddell won’t leave gracefully. He’s going to have to be beaten out of the sport.
And this whole article made complete sense. Well played sir.
The only way this fight makes sense is as a signal to Chuck to retire and to get a Big Name on Jones’s record.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Aug 1, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Are we really going to deny this again though?
The UFC springboarded evans & shogun off of liddell and also had somewhat the same effect on rampage.Are we going to start hearing dana say “chuck wants one last fight ill have to give it to him”? Dana is on record as wanting liddel to retire but are we all really that daft to buy it?
by destructivist on Aug 2, 2010 3:43 AM EDT up reply actions
you guys are hating on this
but it’s totally a combat sports tradition. It’s what happens to the old lions, they get fed to the young ones.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Aug 1, 2010 11:51 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
It’s working fantastic in boxing. Nothing but exciting matchups all the time over there!
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
by Ubernoober on Aug 1, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Boxing does some things right.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
The young lions are so busy feeding on the old lions that they never fight each other.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
by Ubernoober on Aug 1, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
boxing does a good job of providing boxers with brain damage by feeding the old lions to the younger ones
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 1, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
yup
No one has ever or will ever suffer brain damage from a career in mma. That’s how much better mma is than boxing.
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Aug 2, 2010 1:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
this is what boxing used to do
It worked great for Rocky Marciano (beat Joe Louis), Larry Holmes (beat Muhammed Ali), Mike Tyson (beat Larry Holmes), it’s worked for a long long time.
Hell it worked for Matt Hughes and Tito Ortiz against Royce Gracie and Ken Shamrock.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I don’t think there’s any convincing them that this isn’t Snowden shitting on Chuck’s health and the safety of the sport…Snowden made a good argument for it, where other people tasked with trying to reason this fight would just spew some bull.
Killin’ me.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 1, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
chucks health is spewing bull?
just cause something might make sense from a business point of view doesnt make it right. you are honestly ok with watchign chuck get ko’d again cause it a young lion/old lion fight has worked in boxing in the past?
of course it achieves its purpose in passing on the torch to jones. but who can honestly sit here and say they’d like to see chuck ko’d for the umpteenth time?
Gracie was undefeated in the octagon, and was still a god of Brazilian black magic. Shammy was THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN IN THE WORLD!!!!! Joe Louis had retired with the HW crown. Ali had retired with the HW crown.
Chuck has been KTFOed 3 times in a row now, and everyone knows that he’s done.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
by Ubernoober on Aug 1, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can't tell if your first paragraph is facetious or not.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
The point is that all of the “torch bearers” weren’t coming in on a string of spectacular, high profile, and utterly devastating defeats.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
But they were fucking done man. And arguing that they had some kind of legit chance is ridiculous.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Not everyone knew that they were done.
No fucking way do I want to see the seediest aspect of boxing to drag it’s sleazy ass through MMA.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
by Ubernoober on Aug 2, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
agreed
Holmes had fought two close decision losses to Spinks. Chuck has been getting knocked the fuck out for years in a row. He is nowhere close to a torch-bearer and everyone advocating for this fight knows it.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Aug 2, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 2, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
it’s a tradition in boxing
that does not make it ok for mixed martial arts
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 1, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
there's a reason boxing is dying
there’s a lot of them actually. This is one of them.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Aug 1, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
what about Matt Hughes vs Royce Gracie?
or Tito vs Ken, 1, 2 and 3?
How were those one bit different?
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Hey now don't be dissing Matt "The Gracie Slayer" Hughes!!!
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
Royce
hadn’t been getting completely obliterated in every fight for years. Ken I got nothing on. There’s a lot of things the early days of MMA did wrong, but at least those were title fights.
I have nothing against “passing the torch” fights. Lidell is no longer the torch-bearer by any stretch of the imagination.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Aug 1, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
because both ken shamrock and royce gracie both speak better english than chuck
chucks taken real damage through his career
just because boxing has a tradition of doing it does not make it right
a fight should be competitive and what is being talked about here is intentionally creating a mismatch
it would without a doubt boost jon jones popularity
and perhaps cement him as a contender in the eyes of casual fans
a win over chuck proves nothing it’s a gimme fight
a freakshow fight
made in the name of money at the expense of a fighters health who doesn’t know when to say quit
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
other than the KO
Chuck looked fucking sharp against Franklin. And one thing Jones doesn’t have is one punch KO power. In fact he has no KO’s on his resume.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
So the UFC is the only MMA that matters…
MWAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
by Ubernoober on Aug 2, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
This was one of them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUJ65WCqvpQ
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
Rich hadn’t been known for his KO power either. And he put Chuck to sleep.
http://www.instrength.com
Tell that to Nate Quarry.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Aug 2, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Does so.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Aug 2, 2010 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Does not!
You don’t get paid by the word when you comment do you Richard? I don’t think I’ve ever seen you post more than 6 words at once. : )
http://www.instrength.com
I get paid by the month.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Aug 2, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
And this might be a good point Chuck’s health-wise. Matyushenko wasn’t destroyed tonight. He was dominated and beaten down, but he’s going to be training tomorrow. Jones takes down Chuck and beats him on the ground, then Chuck is really done in the clearest way possible; he won’t “get caught,” he’ll have been taken apart.
do you really honestly think chuck would provide jones with a good fight?
if you do i can’t argue with that
i just think that chuck needs to be protected from himself
we have learned from boxing what the traditions of boxing brings while in mma we’re just now beginning the process of finding out what a career in the sport provides as far as brain damage. i believe mma to be safer than boxing but it is a combat sport and long term risks to fighters health is very real and as the physiological age goes up so does the long term risk to their health
i also think it’s time for jon jones to shit or get off the pot
it’s time for him to step up in competition not step down
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know if that's actually true
boxing is dying cause it’s corrupt, balkanized and completely inaccessible to casual fans. When Tyson KTFO’d Larry Holmes, it was a huge moment in sport.
I still think this is a terrible idea, and that Liddell should send his neurology bill to Mr. Snowden if it happens, but I don’t think that’s the problem with boxing.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Aug 1, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
The Holmes fight
was a bit of a joke. 2 months after years of doing nothing…. Also there’s a slight difference in that Holmes hadn’t been getting blown up in every fight before that.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Aug 2, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
My point was just that I agree with Kid Nate
that the model of building young fighters by feeding them famous, declining veterans had real value in boxing, and could be viable in MMA.
I just think it would be vile to subject Liddell to that.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Aug 2, 2010 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
But you were just arguing with me against Griffin
Griffin is a high profile, popular fighter, a former champion and he is a far more legitimate challenge than Chuck Lidell at this point.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
Well they are two completely different arguments
Nobody in this thread is suggesting that Liddell would mount a serious challenge to Jones. The general consensus seems to be that Jones would murder him and his legend would grow.
You said that Griffin represents an appropriate step up, talent-wise, for Jones, which is a completely different point. If you’re saying the UFC should have him pound a few more dents into Forrest’s face in order to build his popularity, I guess I can listen to that argument, but let’s not pretend Forrest is a logical next challenge.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Aug 2, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
there's nothing wrong with having the old guys fight the new up and comers
Thats what this fight was… old tough soviet wrestler power-puncher vs the young hyped up kid. NOTHING wrong with that.
Shit like feeding a two-year out-of-shape Holmes to Tyson is not. Feeding a Liddell that’s been obliterated for years now is a terrible notion for the health of Chuck and everyone knows it
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Aug 2, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tradition can be broken
Chuck’s speech is starting to slur. Look at his most recent fights:
UFC 71 – KTFO against Rampage
UFC 76 – Dropped by Jardine and lose a decision
UFC 79 – War with Wandy
UFC 88 – KTFO against Rashad
UFC 97 – KTFO against Shogun
UFC 115 – KTFO against Franklin
Spot a pattern here? If Liddell was like a 205 Jens Pulver, where he’s consistently getting submitted but not getting viciously smashed in the skull, then I’d say “hey, why not?”. But for Chuck’s safety he should not fight ever again.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
by SSreporters on Aug 1, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So Chuck Liddell gets to play Larry Holmes?
I don’t see Dana as being the most sentimental guy in the world, but I have a hard time seeing him set his buddy up like that.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Aug 1, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
tradition my butt, this is one tradition we can buck.
Fan of Tiger 'Makin It Rain' Woods
by B-A-N-A-N-A-S on Aug 1, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Pugilista Dementia
Lots of punch drunk old lions in boxing
Well dude, so what?
Because it’s a dumb tradition, it’s fine? If that’s how things work, i got a whole bunch of horrible, stupid, dangerous ideas that tradition would justify…
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis
I don't think anyone disagrees with the principle
People are happy to see Jones vs Tito or Randy. But Chuck is a serious liability. Jones has vicious power and Chuck can’t take pillow fists.
yea! let’s follow the great examples of how boxing has screwed up!!! yay
"Jeremy Shane.. Easily the best writer on BE with initials J.S.!" - mmarazorback
Nothing says “screwed up” like the drawing power of ODLH and Tyson!
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 2, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Mr. Snowden theres a thing called Morality; Mr. White has it, You sir are missing your daily serving!
Fan of Tiger 'Makin It Rain' Woods
yeah
Dana White the guy who pisses away $500,000 in a half hour of gambling when fighters like Jacob Volkmann are 10 months behind on their mortgages and guys like Don Frye can’t get health care.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Aug 1, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you want stable income don’t be a fighter.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
by Ubernoober on Aug 1, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
But judging by Dana’s responsibility for them, he must be forcing them to do so.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 2, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
So now it’s Dana’s fault that Volkmann can’t pay his rent? Good lord…
by ufc4 on Aug 1, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i don't think
you are capable of understanding a point.
It’s not Dana’s fault, but it IS immoral to squander that kind of money when the men who made you that rich are struggling.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Jacob Volkmann is 10 months behind on his mortgage because he lost to Martin Kampmann and Paulo Thiago. That doesn’t make Dana White playing blackjack immoral.
http://www.instrength.com
by Tim Burke on Aug 2, 2010 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Is it the amount of money he's gambling?
If he was playing $20 a hand for 30 hours straight, would that make it better?
"I might know a couple things that you don't know. 'Cause I've been young, but you ain't never been old." - Elvin Bishop
Actually, depending on the principles he’s constructed his ethical system on, he could legitimately view that as immoral.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Aug 2, 2010 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes
Morality is subjective no?
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Not when you’re Kid Nate taking on BE community members.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 2, 2010 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not touching that issue...
My point is that he could have a good reason for thinking Dana’s behavior is immoral – I’m not addressing the action itself, only how Kid Nate probably rationally arrived at that conclusion.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Aug 2, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
@KN; immoral is the wrong word i fear
careless? yes i would say so. if he were spending UFC money then it would be immoral. when you try to take on dana’s morality by beinging that up your intentionally trying to blur the line between those two terms for your arguements sake
Fan of Tiger 'Makin It Rain' Woods
by B-A-N-A-N-A-S on Aug 2, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
bringing*
Fan of Tiger 'Makin It Rain' Woods
by B-A-N-A-N-A-S on Aug 2, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
In fact, here in MO a fair amount of the money our casinos collect go to the school system, so that money he lost could have gone to a worthy cause.
pfft
legalized gambling is a huge scam and a reason our economy and educational system continue to go to shit.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Yes, because if you make it illegal, then society benefits.
Wait, what?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 2, 2010 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
heretic
"Holy Crap Lashley is one Bi black dude. He just looks so immensely thick in that picture."
-Pain
by Barack Lesnar on Aug 2, 2010 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
It works great in Nevada.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
Neat and tidy way to tax the poor.
GSP is an alien sent here to humiliate our men and mate with our women
Yeah, like that pauper, Dana White.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Aug 2, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think waffles are immoral. Right angles in food is an abomination.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
by Ubernoober on Aug 2, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
The money & time we spend on MMA could be donated to the poor or spent volunteering in our community – instead we (arguably) waste it on a sport where men destroy each other’s future brain functions.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Aug 2, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
@KN; alright i can follow your logic, waste is bad, mkay.
but its his hobby, nobody is accusing Phil Ivey of immorality. Ivey is a A level card player, White is a D level card player. One mans hobby can be anothers waste, what im wondering is how that connects to Dana’s morality when it comes to putting his employees in real physical danger for profits sake. That would be waste to me, Liddell is a real human not a video game boss needed to progress to the next level
Fan of Tiger 'Makin It Rain' Woods
by B-A-N-A-N-A-S on Aug 2, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Comparing poker and blackjack never works. One is a game of chance, the other is a game of skill.
http://www.instrength.com
They’re both a bit of both, actually…
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Aug 2, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually, no. Black is a negative expectation game. No matter how theoretically perfect you play, you will ALWAYS go broke if you play long enough.
Poker is a game of skill that involves chance.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
The biggest skill lies in knowing when to walk away.
If you aren’t skilled enough to know when to cut your losses and manage your money, you won’t win.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Aug 2, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
THE GAME IS UNBEATABLE.
This is not a point of debate. It is objective fact. Comparing BJ to poker is incorrect, factually.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
Fagan’s using caps now. This shit got serious.
http://www.instrength.com
by Tim Burke on Aug 2, 2010 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
1) Where’s the math that says it’s unbeatable? If it’s out there (and I wouldn’t be surprised if it is), then I’d love to read it.
2) How do you explain groups like the MIT team?
3) You can compare blackjack to poker – they’re both gambling games popular in casinos, only one is played against the house, and the other is against other people. See, I’m comparing the two.
4) If you’re trying to say that you cant compare them, the the adjective isn’t “incorrect” but “incommensurable” (See: Thomas Kuhn).
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Aug 2, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
1, The house has just over a 2% advantage if you play perfect blackjack. It gets closer to nullified if you can count, but with 6-8 decks it’s nearly impossible. The reason casinos exist in the first place is because these games are unbeatable. In the end, over a long enough period of time, you always lose. Always.
2. The MIT teams got booted out of the casino, hence they lost. Ask Ken Uston.
3. Poker is not gambling. Poker is completely different – the casino takes a rake for hosting the game. They’re not in on the game, because it’s beatable. Anything is comparable, but it’s not apples to apples like people think it is. They’re fundamentally different and using one to argue the other makes no sense.
http://www.instrength.com
1) Interesting – where’s the math behind it? I’m not surprised that the casino has an advantage (why else would they offer it?).
2) Getting kicked out the casinos is a loss, even if you make a great profit?
3) We must have different definitions of gambling – I thought it’s an activity with money or some penalty at stake, which includes poker. Why do you exclude it?
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Aug 2, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
1. It’s complicated. I’ve read the mechanics for the math before, I’m sure you could find them on the net somewhere.
2. What the MIT teams was doing was considered cheating to the casinos. When your income source is cut off, you lose. Did they win short term? Yes. But they wouldn’t have long-term.
3. I, along with many governing agencies, don’t consider it gambling because you have much more control over the outcome. It’s a strategy game. It would take way too long to explain sufficiently, but it’s why it’s been designated as a game of skill – so it’s not grouped in with casino games and can operate under different rules. Under a broad definition, it could be considered gambling. Much like investing in stocks is…but it’s very different.
http://www.instrength.com
1. Google it yourself or go to the library.
2. As BM said, you can gain an edge if you can count. You’ll have a talking to with someone shortly.
3. Do you consider playing the stock market gambling? Or investing in, well, anything? Because things like poker and sports betting can be beaten for a pretty consistent ROI just like playing the markets.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
Yes, I consider stocks another form of gambling – analogous to sports betting in that you’re wagering on the performance of something you don’t directly control (only an ungodly larger number of variables are present).
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Aug 2, 2010 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Unbeatable is a bit of a misnomer, I suppose. But if we act with the axiom that you shouldn’t (or hypothetically if the casinos went so far as to totally eliminate) counting cards, it’s a negative expectation game, no matter how well you play it.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
How do casinos know you’re counting cards?
Do they just assume you are if you’re winning more than probability would account for?
GSP is an alien sent here to humiliate our men and mate with our women
Counters that couldn’t do it in their heads (which is surprisingly hard) would write it down, use a counter, or even mark the cards. Once they caught on, they changed the game.
They changed the dynamics of the game so counting is pointless now. Back in the day, they used 1-2 decks so it was easy to keep track without having to write anything down. Once they got wise to it, they expanded to 6-8 decks and reshuffle a lot. Basically kills the point of doing it.
http://www.instrength.com
I understand the point you’re attempting to make, but, for every time you make a judgment about the way Dana White spends his money there’s someone making less money than you judging you for the times you spend your money on things they consider “immoral”.
by jrobb20 on Aug 2, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
How is Dana White responsible for Volkmann and Frye's family's.
Dana White is responsible for the Whites. i say he is doing a pretty good job providing for his family. Your theory streches into the very reasons why Capitalism is a sham for this country but i fail to see how it applys to his morality
Fan of Tiger 'Makin It Rain' Woods
by B-A-N-A-N-A-S on Aug 1, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
above is a friendly debate intended reply to Mr Wilcox
Fan of Tiger 'Makin It Rain' Woods
by B-A-N-A-N-A-S on Aug 1, 2010 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Jon Jones said he’s ready for the Top 5, will Move up to heavyweight to fight James Toney on the Daily Line.
Holy crap Jon Jones is fighting James Toney on The Daily Line?
Thought they would’ve picked a better venue…..
;-)
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
Wrong on many levels
Chuck has been KO’d so many times lately. If Dana were half the friend he claims to be, he wouldn’t put together a fight between Jones and Liddell. There’s a difference between putting Jones in with a fading star to give him name recognition and push the old dog out. Putting Jones against Liddell, who at this point can be knocked out by the faintest of breezes would only be legalized murder. Put Jones against Franklin or Rampage, two former stars who are slowly losing their luster. In addition, Dana would come off not only as unethical by putting Liddell in with one of the rising young lions but a liar as well, having claimed Liddell would never fight in the UFC again.
OMG another 600 comment thread...
Nobody wants to see Liddell back in the cage.
FWIW,
Jones wrecks Tito, Griffin or Franklin and they give him the same type of boost.
Anyways, I’m outie before this one gets messy.
I can’t imagine beating Franklin or Tito would give him the same kind of boost, and there is the whole argument that giving a very marketable fighter like Forrest in his prime a loss is worst for the UFC than Chuck winning. But we are arguing hypotheticals here.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
They were names at the level of Liddell
but they arent as damaged as Liddell at this point either.
Anyone who is in the know, knows he is done.
Watching Jones wreck Couture is an option too.
Yeah
Couture works.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
what the fuck did chuck ever do to you?
Guy’s been knocked the everloving fuck out by everyone and you want him to fight the fucking best prospect in the world? I haven’t used the word “fuck” in a post on BE this much ever. Fuck you for wanting poor Chuck to die :(
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Aug 1, 2010 11:54 PM EDT reply actions
Why do you hate Chuck Liddell? How does this even resemble a good idea?
by GetYourHeadStomps on Aug 1, 2010 11:55 PM EDT reply actions
Seriously guys?
I can’t believe how many people took this post seriously. It’s clearly facetious.
Your parents must be siblings.
You don’t know Snowden, do you?
It’s legit.
by Amsterdaam on Aug 2, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Before the Jones hype train gets out of control...
I’d like to remind everyone that he was fighting a guy who isn’t ranked in the top 20. Chuck would probably lose, but he’d be ok. Chuck has been in against better than Jones.
Jones hasn't shown one punch KO power
in fact he has yet to KO anyone in the Octagon. And his striking leaves some serious holes. Chuck is slow but he still hits really hard.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
True, but Jones is wayyyyyyy too powerful for Chuck to sprawl-and-brawl with
And he’s just elbow the living crap out of him.
Or just do a spinning back-elbow like he did with Bonnar and O’Brien.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
Franklin wasn’t exactly known for the dynamite in his hands either but here we are.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
But he has decent technique and he time that punch perfectly. It’s not like suddenly Chuck can get knocked out by anyone who has two hands. Jones is not a puncher, his technique is rudimentary at best and he didn’t out punch any one in the UFC.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 2, 2010 5:14 AM EDT up reply actions
*timed
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 2, 2010 5:14 AM EDT up reply actions
If I recall seeing a replay
he threw in a wild exchange and hit Chuck with a sloppy right hand right in the mouth. A punch that might stagger Jon Goulet, crumpled Chuck to the mat.
And this, Ladies and Gentlemen
is why so many of us thought this was a lose-lose for Jones. We knew people would say that Vlad was not ranked in the top 20. Look it up on the other threads…
Jones can’t win. He just can’t… they bring him along slowly, and people tell us the hype is undeserved because he hasn’t fought anybody. Ask for a real match-up and they say he isn’t ready yet. LOL
He’s in Purgatory!
Your parents must be siblings.
Jones is a great fighter, but he’s not a devastating fighter. I wouldn’t be worried for Chucks safety at all if they fought.
Uh what?
He broke… follow me here… he fucking broke Vera’s face. Broke it.
Your parents must be siblings.
He almost smashed Matt Hamill's face in half
And sent Bonnar flying on that spinning elbow.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
by SSreporters on Aug 2, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sure the elbows in the Hamill fight were illegal
But Hamill was out of it.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
I forgot about that
Yeah if Jones had not landed the elbows it would’ve been stopped to injury.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
Bones was training in a local NY fight club for the Bonnar fight. He was trining with team Yoda for the Hammil fight.
The thing about prospects is that they can improve. The Jones that fought tonight would send Bonnar to the coroner’s office soaked up in a large sponge.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
Hmm, I’m not convinced but you guys do make some good points. Hopefully they give him somebody good next time so we actually know where he’s at.
I’m just very aware of the fact that when a guy fights below average competition, he can look like superman. People wanted to see Anthony Johnson fight Silva and GSP at one point.
Jones is hot right now. There’s no point in arguing what he can and can’t do, because it’s obvious that he could conquer the world and make Lesnar his bitch.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 2, 2010 5:18 AM EDT up reply actions
How much star power does Chuck have left?
That’s the only question I would have about this fight. All those KO’s would have to diminish it some and seeing how Jones is going to be hyped as the uber-prospect of MMA I don’t know if the marketing machine of the UFC would be able to sell this as much as they would want to. Even amongst my group of friends who don’t give a shit about anything except Brock Lesnar…even they know Chuck has fallen on hard times.
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
He is huge to casual fans.
A potential fight with Jones would be big time. Would that be the one fight that Chuck would turn down?
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
I don't thnk Chuck turns down fights
He’d probably fight Brock or Fedor.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I actually joked about this right after the fight
Also, I could have done without the Franklin swipe. But yeah, this does make some sense if Liddell tries to keep fighting. There would be a lot of backlash, though.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
Holy crap, this is a bad idea.
Jon Jones should fight legitimate opponents that have a chance of beating him. So should every fighter.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 2, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If Jones fights more frequently, this doesn’t truly prevent him from fighting better competition. There aren’t a ton of options at the moment. He puts Chuck to sleep in October in three minutes and fights Lil Nog in December.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Charles Awad on Aug 2, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Jordan Breen
Often comments that you don’t always need to take a step up in competition, but Jone’s last three fights have all been at the same level of fighter and now he needs to step it up especially after these demolition jobs. Lidell would also be a step down from some of Jones current opponents in my opinion
I’m okay with that.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 2, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Ever since I signed up for an account...
The thinking has just gotten more and more bizarre.
by badpvtdan on Aug 2, 2010 12:02 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
So we should blame you and call it a day? lol The thinking was backed up intelligently, you don’t have to like it though.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 2, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
It's an unwritten rule on BE that all blame goes to Kid Nate.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
Oh no, it’s written. Where’s the “I blame Kid Nate” fanpost…if it’s not there, it is in our hearts.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 2, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This. That we blame everything on Nate has clearly been laid out in writing.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Aug 2, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
The Kid Nate quote in your sig occurred when
A commenter blamed something on someone other than Kid Nate, which violated rule #4 and got him banned.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
I like your version of events better than the truth.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Aug 2, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
No way should Jones/Liddell happen
Chuck needs to retire and stay that way. And after his series of losses, I’m not sure a win over Chuck for Jones does anything more for him than a win over T.Silva would.
The point is this
Everybody wants Chuck to retire. You want Chuck to retire, I want Chuck to retire, Dana wants Chuck to retire, fuck even his trainer wants Chuck to retire. But Chuck doesn’t want to retire. So stop talking about that. Given that, 1. he’s probably not going to retire until he knows he is completely done 2. Jones can show him that he is completely done and 3. that Chuck is still a huge star, this fight could work.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Everybody wants Chuck to retire. You want Chuck to retire, I want Chuck to retire, Dana wants Chuck to retire, fuck even his trainer wants Chuck to retire. But Chuck doesn’t want to retire. So stop talking about that.
Telling me not to talk about something really isn’t an effective way to make me not talk about it. So, just to reiterate – Chuck should retire. He’s accomplished all he can and all he really needs to anyway, and has demonstrated in the past three years that he’s lost it. And entertaining the notion of a Chuck/Jones fight is counter-intuitive to that.
Given that, 1. he’s probably not going to retire until he knows he is completely done 2. Jones can show him that he is completely done and 3. that Chuck is still a huge star, this fight could work.
1. Three consecutive losses by KO, two in the first round, would seem to illustrate that already.
2. If his recent string of losses hasn’t convinced him of that, I doubt another loss to Jones will either.
3. That’s pretty much the only thing there is to a fight against Liddell for Jones – a way to pad his record with a win over a big name. But between the options of Jones fighting Liddell, or Jones fighting a legit contender, I’d rather have the latter.
A lot of people just don’t get this. Chuck isn’t gonna retire. Dana isn’t gonna force him to stop. If you really think Dana’s gonna put down some moral stand, you need to grow up. This is what happens. Its not some part of tradition to take beatings, its part of the fiber of these sports because of how the fighters think and act. Look at how many times Sakuraba is sent out to get killed. Promoters dragged back Funaki’s old ass! Liddell will fight again – why not try to get something out of him? Its going to happen however much you like it or not. Why not promote the thing that will be best for an up and comer?
The difference is that in the last several years Sakuraba has by and large been given win-able fights. Putting Liddell in front of Evans, Shogun, or Jones, at the decline of his career, is silly. For me at least, the question isn’t whether or not anyone should make Chuck retire, but what kind of fights to give him if he stays.
The Franklin fight was about the right speed for him. Liddell should be fighting guys of his generation.
Sakuraba had to endure years of unwinnable fights before reaching that. He’s been getting the piss beaten out of him for years, and its not like getting drubbed by Melvin Manhoef is any better than Jones KOing Liddell. Its even sadder, actually.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Liddell already is/has endured years of disastrous fights. He hasn’t one two consecutive bouts in over three years.
And anyway, think about what we’re talking about here. Should Sakuraba really have suffered such horrendous match making? Overwhelmingly the opinion, including my own, is no. Why repeat the same mistake?
Sakuraba wasn’t going to retire. He wanted to fight top guys. He could draw money, and so they were going to give him what he wanted. You can sit there and say as much as you want that these guys are washed up. Some of them even know they are washed up, and still fight. Until the public purposely stops watching them fight and ensuring a paycheck, they will get in the ring over and over and over again until either they have nothing left physically.
That is the deal with Liddell. You think he should retire. OK. Well, Chuck Liddell doesn’t want to, and he wants to fight for a world title against top level competition. Guess what’s gonna happen?
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
That's the thing nobody wants to admit
These guys are their own bosses.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Uh, I didn’t say he should retire. I said he shouldnt be fighting Jones-type opponents. From my first reply: “For me at least, the question isn’t whether or not anyone should make Chuck retire, but what kind of fights to give him if he stays.”
Ideally, if one really wanted to use Liddell to build up guys like Jones, at least let him crush some cans first. Have him fight one or two TUF washouts or something before putting him in there with a Jones. I mean, even during the darkest period of his career, Sakuraba was thrown a Gilles Arsene from time to time.
Is that any better? So Sakuraba doles out some brain damage to a guy who probably doesn’t need it either but at least isn’t anyone’s hero on BE. Is that really a benefit to the sport? Besides, what if Liddell doesn’t want to fight Gilles Arsene? What if he wants to be a title contender?
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
If he wants to be a title contender, then he needs to start back at the bottom of the ladder, as is befitting his atrocious record. Any way you slice it, Liddell shouldn’t be fighting top competition. You can either reason that he has become too fragile a fighter, or you can reason that, even if he wants to be in a title fight, he has to earn the right to step in there with another contender.
I bring up Arsene/Sakuraba mainly to point out the differences between Liddell and Sakuraba’s respective situations. I just believe that to use Sakuraba as justification or precedent for Liddell/Jones is faulty reasoning, is all.
Again, ideally I think Liddell should be fighting people of his own generation.
Liddell vs. some guy at the bottom of the ladder makes no sense for the UFC to do unless they have totally run out of name guys for him to fight. They pay him too much. For Liddell, it makes no sense to accept a fight with someone there because at his age, he can’t go back up the ladder over 6-7 fights.
I’m not using Sakuraba as justification for using Liddell in such a fight. There isn’t such a fight yet, though there will probably be something like it in the next year or so. I’m using him as an example of the reality of the fight game.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions
First, I agree with your objection to what we will now call the Arsene Initiative. I thought it was an inelegant, odious kind of solution. However, I think a good solution to Sakuraba’s problems during that time was the fight with Randelman—an opponent with some real strengths, but also clearly identifiable weaknesses. Those are the kinds of fights that Liddell should be having.
And, if what everyone here is saying about Liddell’s great mainstream marketability is true, Liddell should still bring in the seats on the power of his name and his potential to put someone’s lights out. If the UFC saw fit to give Couture someone like Coleman, why not give a similar match to Liddell?
It requires them, at this point, especially signing a Mark Coleman for such an occasion, and somehow building that fight. They already had Coleman, which made it easy. If you want to mention Renzo/Hughes, well…Hughes isn’t fighting anyone really good. Just people that are legends or peers.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Completely disagree...
They’re bringing Jones along just fine, exposure-wise. All of his fights have been televised, and with this main card victory, he’s primed for a co-headline spot on a PPV, with hype and highlight reels aplenty. There’s no need to further and so dismantle damage Liddell’s legacy/body.
If Liddell is going to fight again, it should allow him to go out on a win. And anyway, Liddell has already played the star-maker once in his fight with Rashad.
I predict this article will spawn at least 3 or 4 articles
across the other SB Nation MMA websites.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
My first guess, Subo is gonna be all over this one.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 2, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait for it at Fightliner – out of SBN jurisdiction.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Aug 2, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Fagan’s the new EIC.
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
I have a headache blossoming into a migraine. Leave me alone.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Aug 2, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Quite right, I thought Animal (congrats on the Cageside Seats gig btw Animal) said SB Nation and other MMA websites…
Still, Subo might just post it here to bust heads and hope for a comment section as crazy as his last big one had.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 2, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
The idea itself pretty much says "let's take the worst of boxing and bring it on over"
I may end up rebutting it, but then again, y’all are doing a pretty good job.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 2, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you very much.
It’s very exciting. I might actually write something up regarding this. :)
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
I'm always going to call him Subo
Suboticki sounds like a disease.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
by SSreporters on Aug 2, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Suboticulosis.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 2, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
He’s lost all his power with the name change.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
You've made a terrible mistake.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 2, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
You can go Derelick my balls.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
by Ubernoober on Aug 2, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Just don’t let him suboticki them. That would be weird.
http://www.instrength.com
by Tim Burke on Aug 2, 2010 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I heard you do a podcast interview and go by the name Subo and I thought that was fucking awesome.
Subo vs. Kid Nate, it’s something straight out of a comic book.
Derek Suboticki vs. Kid Nate? Bah, just not the same.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
This is borderline trolling
Really? An up and coming peaking prospect against a brain-damaged fading star.
EXTRA EXTRA
Joe Silva announces the return of UFC legend Ken Shamrock to fight rising star Jon Jones.
by Sokonojudo on Aug 2, 2010 12:10 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
They did that already. Three times.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 2, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Nailed it
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
And you want more brain damaged legends?
Sheesh just gather some people from an old people’s home. We can have a 10v1 contest. Whoever doesn’t die of a heart attack wins.
You think pro fighters determine in advance that they’re gonna fight till they’re brain damaged? It happens because these guys don’t stop. Look around at MMA: Who hasn’t ended up down this road? Ken Shamrock? BZZZZZ. Royce Gracie? BZZZZZ. Tank Abbott? Don Frye? Mark Coleman? Kevin Randleman? Jens Pulver? Kazushi Sakuraba? Frank Shamrock? BZZZZZZZZZZZ.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly so we shouldnt be encouraging them to get MORE brain damaged. We shouldnt have Chuck fighting Jon Jones unless we like to see drug addicts relapse. We should step in and make sure these events are stopped when possible.
No one is encouraging them. Its gonna happen whether you like it or not. Open your eyes.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
You knocked that one out of the park Snowden.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
Ken does owe them money…
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Aug 2, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s a matchup that would be obvious in boxing. We’ve seen it time and again, often with the biggest names in the entire sport. Oscar De La Hoya became one of the most polarizing fighters in history by whipping the aging legend Julio Cesar Chavez. Mike Tyson won over critics and solidified his status by beating back Larry Holmes
When Julio Cesar Chavez fought Oscar De La Hoya, he’d had four wins and a draw in his last five fights, and was still highly regarded. When Larry Holmes fought Mike Tyson, he’d just dropped two in a row, but they were the only two losses of his entire career and both to the same person, IBF Champion Michael Spinks. He was only two losses removed from being an undefeated champion. Chuck Liddell has lost three in a row and five of his last six. His fall from grace has already been staggering. This is not a good comparison. A much better one would be having Jon Jones fight Randy Couture who is an aging legend who still has some credibility (not that I’d make that match-up either, because it seems really mean to Randy).
by Chromium on Aug 2, 2010 12:11 AM EDT reply actions 10 recs
We’re wasting a lot of time here- Mike Chiappetta said Dana says Jones will fight a top 8 guy next so that pretty much rules out Chuck
Dana has no idea what they have planned right after the fight. He tells us that all the time.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 2, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
That and the fact that Chuck is done, I always find it hillarious to see people doubt White when he says something they still don’t get it even after all this time.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
Why would people doubt Dana’s word when it comes to Chuck retiring?
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 2, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Because this time he'd be portrayed in a completely negative light
If he allows Chuck to keep fighting.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
Yes it is
This is not a step-up in competition.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
He never said it was.
Surely you realize that this is not just a sport but also a business.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
There's also a way to have a step up and have it be a business
Give him Lil Nog/Bader winner, Thiago Silva, or Forrest Griffin (the biggest draw of the guys I’ve mentioned) and a top 8 LHW.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
count me in the "Yes, it is" boat
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis
If you see this
And multiply it by 4, add a knockdown against Keith Jardine, this should not equal a fight with Bones.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
by SSreporters on Aug 2, 2010 12:19 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
This is much better
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
I don’t get why this article would upset anybody.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Suggesting that someone who most people agree shouldnt even be fighting anymore, against a guy whos got the killer instinct of a lion. wonderful Idea, you’re right.
by Hendo_One-Shot on Aug 2, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Its just a fight suggestion
And then he explained why he thought it made sense. Its not like he actually sets up the matchups.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
maybe because such a terrible fight suggestion doesnt belong on the front page?
by Hendo_One-Shot on Aug 2, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So you not only want to tell Liddell to stop fighting, the UFC which matchups should be made, but also, bloodyelbow how to run their site?
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
this is exactly the same as front paging that racist ’tard that got banned who wrote that “Jon Jones should fight Anderson Silva article”.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
That’s not calling Snowden a racist tard, i just couldn’t remember his name. The comment is aboot the article.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
thank you. was going to say pdl… but that would be wrong and mean.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
I don’t need to tell the UFC to do anything, Because both of us, AND Snowden know damn well the UFC wouldn’t make this matchup in a million years. The Idea is Ludicrous, and an obvious attempt to generate WTF’s. I don’t get how he uses the logic “boxing compromises its fighters safety to build prospects, why shouldn’t the ufc” And expect to be taken seriously. Its mind blowing anyone can defend snowden on this crap.
by Hendo_One-Shot on Aug 2, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
That isn’t the logic, that’s your opinion. Heck, look at Matt Hughes – He’d probably take a beating against a legit top ten welterweight. Do you want to see Matt Hughes fight one of them though? Be honest. Most people here do.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
mat hughes and chuck liddell are in two different boats
by Hendo_One-Shot on Aug 2, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess so. Matt Hughes refuses to fight guys that will beat the crap out of him because he thinks its bad for his image and career. Liddell will, however, take them on.
Point remains the same. Matt Hughes isn’t gonna beat Thiago Alves in either man’s remaining lifetime. He’d be compromising his safety to take the fight. Would it be wrong to make it if he was willing? What about Hughes/Kampmann – same idea.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes but considering that Liddell’s “chin” has gone from granite to getting KO’d by single right straights (most recently by a guy who isn’t even right handed), Liddell is the one who really shouldn’t be fighting top tier fighters still. The UFC has far, far more to lose than gain in this fight, so there’s no way it’s going to happen. If Liddell wants to fight someone with name value, re-hire Coleman and put them on the undercard. Coleman won’t be targetting his head at least.
Let’s go a different direction. Phil Baroni is pretty much washed up as a fighter and down to fighting dudes fresh out of bingo hall MMA events. Is it wrong for the UFC to keep throwing him in with young hot prospects?
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
depends, is the prospect named jon jones, and is his health at serious risk?
by Hendo_One-Shot on Aug 2, 2010 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Phil Baroni has been knocked out pretty darn badly in recent years. He’s also been in some wild brawls that took time off his life too. Is he fighting a 170lb Jon Jones? Who knows? Maybe. These are fresh prospects – complete unknowns. What if one turns out to be?
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
My objection to the proposed match-up is primarily that it’s a dumb move business-wise, but as far as the Liddell-Baroni comparison, I don’t think it’s apt. Baroni has been hit in the face hard by guys like Amir Sadollah and not been knocked out. In fact his last knockout loss was six fights ago. Liddell has been knocked out three straight fights now.
Rec’d for a great gif even though I don’t support the sentiment.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Aug 2, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
He's a BJJ black belt, folks...
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Aug 2, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
You're pretty much saying...
“The UFC should bribe an over-the-hill champion to put over a new young star, just like Don King did.”
I don’t know how to say this, but I think that’s an awful idea.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 2, 2010 12:23 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
The UFC doesn’t need to bribe him. He’d probably wants to do it. Why not just give him his wish? Maybe he’ll finally go away after.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
It's not just boxing 101,
it’s pro wrestling 101 too.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
This is going to be the Wheaties Box cover
Mark it down, you heard it here first. Jon Jones will be on the cover of Wheaties soon. Probably this picture. Or maybe a picture of that Martian Manhunter dude. Either way, that box cover will be his exposure to the hoi polli. I have spoken.
Your parents must be siblings.
Maybe have him look a bit less murderous when trying to sell breakfast to the kiddies?
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
by Ubernoober on Aug 2, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hey
He’s got a Bible chapter and verse number tattooed on his chest. That should balance it out.
Your parents must be siblings.
Great, blank look in the eyes, and a divine mandate!
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
by Ubernoober on Aug 2, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I read that last part as a diving manatee.
That would probably fit on a box as well.
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
A Bible quote isn’t going to convince anyone who’s actually read the Bible that he’s less murderous for it…
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Aug 2, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Look at that face – does Jon Jones act silly around the Bible? Does he???
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Aug 2, 2010 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
He should have tattooed
Ezekiel 25:17 on his chest. Hat tip: Pulp Fiction
Your parents must be siblings.
does anyone really believe that chuck could beat jones?
i won’t argue with your opinions if you do
but i will say chuck shouldn’t fight anyone
chuck will have to be saved from himself
we’ve seen in boxing what the traditions of boxing do to fighters and their long term health
mma is younger and we’re just now starting to see what years of fighting can do to a person physiologically
while mma is safer than boxing it is still a combat sport and as a fighters physiological age goes up so does the risk of serious and permanent injury.
i believe this to be a ridiculous idea dreamt up for the sole purpose of boosting jones popularity at the expense of chucks health
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 12:24 AM EDT reply actions
Not that I hate your comments
But why are your comments written line-by-line?
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
haha awesome
sorry if it bothers ya
but i probably won’t stop
i also have a problem with punctuation so it makes my posts look less like a wall of unintelligible text
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
hell yeah man
thanks
and will do
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
haha
i just write em how i think em in my head
perhaps a little attention depecit disorder
not sure really
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
It's Free Verse Poetry, man
You get the maracas, I’ll bring the congo drums.
Your parents must be siblings.
This is what I was thinking
This fight isn’t leit. Lidell will just take damage a la Ali in his last fight or Ken Shamrock. Maybe Lidell could still fight against a real scrub and hope that he doesn’t get tagged but against Jon Jones with that speed advantage? Even 5-6 of those elbows tonight would have been horrifying with Chuck.
I understand sacrificing a known name, but Forrest and even Tito seem much more appropriate since there wouldn’t be a health concern.
Tito’s back is a total mess. How is it not a health concern to have him fighting someone like Jon Jones, but Liddell is? I guess paralysis is better than slurred speech?
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn't know there was a threat of paralysis
If there is a threat of paralysis than tito shouldn’t be fighting either, but I hadn’t heard that before. Seeing Chuck get knocked out hard from small punches and then looking awful afterwards is a horrifying and pretty clear indication he shouldn’t be fighting.
true
i think it’s time for jones to shit or get off the pot
it’s time for him to fight a top flight competitor and neither tito or chuck fits that bill in my opinion
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, none of them are going to fight him for about 6-8 months. Why not stay busy and make yourself a big star while you’re at it?
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
because chuck should not be allowed to fight
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Who’s going to stop him? The commission? I doubt it. The UFC? They could have cut him already. They didn’t, and he’s talking about fighting. He will fight for them again.
Dude, seriously – do you think Dana White is really gonna stop Chuck Liddell from getting in the ring again? Even if he tries to and actually cuts Chuck, do you think Chuck will really retire?
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
so???
ummmmmmm this is a place for us to post our opinions right?
i realize that my opinion on what should or shouldn’t happen means little
actually none of our opinions on here really matter in regards to what will or wont happen yet we express them anyway.
that’s all i was doing
i respect your opinions
please respect mine
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Look, I get that its your opinion and you’d like that someone would be able to stop him. But they aren’t going to. That’s why the fight with Jones is being brought up at all.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
i never really liked chuck and always rooted for him to loose
but when he was laying on the floor after the franklin fight it kinda broke my heart a lil.
it broke alot of peoples hearts because it cemented it in most of our heads that it was over
i don’t think dana will allow him to fight
but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Double the ban…..so fucking banned.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 2, 2010 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Banned squared?
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
Double Secret Banning
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
I can’t do it anymore, Jon.
I’ve stuck with you through everything-the WEC article, the Anderson article, the Kaufman article but this is where I draw the line.
It’s never been so obvious that you’re simply baiting for comments and views now and I can’t respect that. I’m out. Best of luck to you at BE.
by Applejack McNeil on Aug 2, 2010 12:26 AM EDT reply actions 22 recs
Gotta agree
You’ve written some very good articles but it kind of seems that you’re writing articles now simply for the sensationalist response they will receive. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion but c’mon man, some of the odd points from the the Lesnar/Carwin fight to having Liddell against Jones? Sure, the articles stir up debate and controversy but the core of the article itself often seems outlandish.
by dreamers_12345 on Aug 2, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’m one hundred percent serious. I don’t think about the number of comments for a second. Why would I? You’re welcome to leave, but it’s for the wrong reason.
Also, the Guy above with the pithy picture is banned. Accusations of trolling aimed at thr staff are inappropriate and incorrect. Argue ideas, not personalities.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 2, 2010 12:41 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
hope your 1 rec was worth it buddy ;) (meant for iverson)
by Hendo_One-Shot on Aug 2, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
You ever notice
every time someone gets banned it’s always some guy that just popped out of nowhere. I’m waiting for an established name to do something outrageous, I might just pull out my testicles and plop ‘em on somebody’s dinner table just for the heck of it.
2010 Summer of Side Boob.
It happens. smoogy is a fine example. So is subo. Oddly enough they’re both back under different names (subo by choice).
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Aug 2, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
smoogy honestly didn't know you could hop to different blogs
Even if you’ve been banned.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
But Subo had that coming.
That was 100% deserved imo.
I was wondering the same thing :P No one that’s been here for awhile seems to get banned, it’s always someone relatively new
by dreamers_12345 on Aug 2, 2010 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Generally you get to be here for a while by following the rules.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
Or
You can simply be an unstoppable ray of wisdom like myself.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 2, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought we let you back in because you contribute to the rankings in a timely manner.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
I think reminding you to collect them from others is more important. I do that, too.
(I want my name in The USA Today)
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 2, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
My name isn’t in the USA Today. Hell, the blog’s name isn’t in the USA Today.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
Were those facts supposed to effect my wants, or…
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 2, 2010 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t figure that nugget out on my own :P Point is anyone can mess up and understandably it just so happens to be the newbies usually. Would never expect to Deo Wade or someone get banned for instance.
by dreamers_12345 on Aug 2, 2010 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, we’re more likely to warn a long time member than to ban them.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
I just can’t, for the life of me, wrap my head around how this is a good idea.
Liddell’s star is so tarnished, I can’t imagine the casual fan thinking anything but, “Liddell is fighting again. Against that guy who did the spinning elbow against Bonnar and broke that other guy’s face. Yeah, I know, Liddell is gonna get murdered.”
I’m all for using older stars to “pass the torch” but Liddell’s torch is all but burnt out. You can’t get blood from a turnip.
by Applejack McNeil on Aug 2, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
You’re welcome to disagree. I presented my ideas in the post. But name calling and a dramatic departure speech? You’re better than that…
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 2, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
You’re right. Feel free to hide, I’m a bit drunk.
Apologies.
by Applejack McNeil on Aug 2, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
You guys make me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 2, 2010 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I would tell ya to hush up if you didn’t have an Evan Tanner avatar.
Instead… HUGS!
by Applejack McNeil on Aug 2, 2010 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I now know better than to “drink and comment.”
by Applejack McNeil on Aug 2, 2010 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
To be fair, like most people here, I get really, really, REALLY passionate about MMA. In fact, I’m considering turning that passion into something of a career.
Also, this is my first time drinking a bit after my daughter was born. My emotions are probably a bit out of whack.
Look at me, making excuses like BJ Penn. FIIIIIIGHTER BASHING! =p
by Applejack McNeil on Aug 2, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude, I WISH I lived in Austin. That city’s so rad.
Although if I lived there, maybe it would lose some of its luster.
by Applejack McNeil on Aug 2, 2010 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Flag down a cab and head for real street
Are you serious man…this article was enough to irritate you to the extent that a response like that fell outta your ass….
YOU WANNA BUILD A SUPERSTAR…… HAVE HIM BEAT A SUPERSTAR. Sorry if the concept is slightly beyond your grasp, but I said, my friends said it, Mir said it, Jones has a solid place in the hearts of the hardcores, but he still needs to fight a huge entity in the sport to generate the PPV draws like UFC is expecting to do.
Only thing I disagree with is that Don King cares nothing for his fighters, Dana White does, especially about chuck, so bad example there from Snowden.
Now, I will be nice. This is the worst idea in the history of existence.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
There will be a new one in 3 days.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
by Ubernoober on Aug 2, 2010 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I ’ave bin in Quebec for da week to ’ave sharpen my french. Jean Snowden will ’ave no answer to my riddum.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
by Ubernoober on Aug 2, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I don’t think this is optimal matchmaking, but…
People realize the UFC can’t force to fight Jon Jones, right?
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
do you think chuck would turn down the fight?
by Hendo_One-Shot on Aug 2, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I do
I think that’s how you retire the guy. You say “Okay, you can fight— but you’re fighting Jon fucking Jones” and he says “Oh. Nevermind.”
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Charles Awad on Aug 2, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
If dana white told Chuck that the only way he’d fight in the UFC again was to face Bones, you’d be foolish to think he’d turn that down.
by Hendo_One-Shot on Aug 2, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think we’d ever hear about it.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Charles Awad on Aug 2, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Although my respect for your opinion was shaky from the get go, I don’t think I can ever take you seriously after this.
by Hendo_One-Shot on Aug 2, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Good thing, then
That I don’t care what you think.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Charles Awad on Aug 2, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Which is why you unleashed a fury of fake outrage on me after Jeremy stehpen’s comments. You just keep em comin.
by Hendo_One-Shot on Aug 2, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Boohoo.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Charles Awad on Aug 2, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Off to do the deed. memories of your tears gots me in the mood.
by Hendo_One-Shot on Aug 2, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
It needs to be blue kind of purple stamped with
A
-—-
215
"Holy Crap Lashley is one Bi black dude. He just looks so immensely thick in that picture."
-Pain
by Barack Lesnar on Aug 2, 2010 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Blackout W via linguistic fatality
"Holy Crap Lashley is one Bi black dude. He just looks so immensely thick in that picture."
-Pain
by Barack Lesnar on Aug 2, 2010 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I think I’m done here.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Sacrificing a legend's safety for a young star
is a terrible idea. No one wants to see Chuck get cleanly knocked out again, which Jones would do. A better fight is Rich Franklin or Randy Couture (once he beats up Toney).
I get the idea of getting Jones more exposure
good business, yada yada yada, BUT just throw him on the next Lesnar PPV card and he’ll be a household name that same night. You don’t need Chuck to make Jones famous
by kalmavet on Aug 2, 2010 12:36 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Oh my god someone disagreeing with the business aspect and not getting their panties in a bunch over throwing Chuck in with Jones. Sir, thank you. Kinda refreshing when there’s been a sea of “Fuck Snowden” random hate comments just because the idea of Jones fighting Chuck was scary and they didn’t like it.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 2, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't like to get into the Snowden bashing
When I disagree with him I just either add a short comment expressing that politely I disagree or I refrain from commenting because I think Snowden is a really smart guy who knows how to play the readers of this site like a piano.
This is too much, it’s insulting to the intelligence of fight fans who know what an atrocity this fight would be and who know that on the off chance the UFC were to actually book this fight there would be serious backlash and it would stand as a blackmark for the sport. The argument that it’s happened before so why not now is thin and doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.
Mr. Snowden, while I respect your knowledge of the sports history and I recognize that you are well spoken and articulate, your act has worn thin and I think you do a disservice to yourself to continually write articles like this that seemingly aim only to generate outrage and reaction from the community here.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
by Worldisart on Aug 2, 2010 12:39 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
James Toney/Randy Couture is a real fight in the UFC and even Dana White admits its a freakshow. You know what? No one cares. Its surviving just fine.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I have no issue with freakshow fights, they can be fun and often times informative.
Chuck Lidell versus Jon Jones isn’t a freakshow fight. It’s a devastating up and coming fighter versus someone who shouldn’t be getting sanctioned to fight because he’s had his lights shut off in devastating fashion three times in a row and has demonstrated an inability to take a punch anymore.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
Freakshow bouts can also be horribly dangerous for the participants. In any case, the idea that this will be a black mark on the promotion that ran Shamrock/Tito 3 as its single biggest TV moment ever (and Kimbo/Alexander as its second biggest) doesn’t make sense to me.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think either of those fights are proud moments for the promotion and I don’t think anyone makes that claim. But using those as justification for why this is okay is a complete strawman argument.
And as far as freakshow fights go, you’re right, some of them are unnecessarily dangerous. James Toney vs Randy Couture is not an example of that.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
I think the UFC is plenty proud of both and their viewership. Much more so than they are of, I dunno, Stout/Fisher 2. I don’t see how Liddell being booked for a beatdown against their hottest prospect would be worse to mainstream media than stuff they’ve already done.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Why?
Because Lidell shouldn’t even be granted a license to fight, let alone booked with a fast rising contender. Because at some point we need to have standards for fighter safety and I don’t know about you, but I think a fighter who has been knocked out in devastating fashion three time in a row is a great place to start drawing the line.
Do you honestly support this kind of matchmaking? Are you so eager for violence that you’re willing to see a mans life ruined because he doesn’t know when to quit? Do you endorse sending a fighter, a man, a human being, a father, a family member, a friend to many and a hero to many fans of this sport into a potentially life altering/threatening situation because the UFC booked Kimbo Slice versus Houston Alexander?
I’m sorry if I think fighter safety should be held to a higher standard and that the matchmaking in the sport should reflect that.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
by Worldisart on Aug 2, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
one hundred percent agree
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
There are standards for fighter safety. They are followed to a T depending on where the UFC is, and obviously they are OK with those standards and stick by them. If Liddell can get a license, then kudos to him and good luck in the ring.
You watch MMA, you are eager for violence. Stop pretending to be some moral paragon of cage fighting. Any time the door locks and we are watching, we are cosigning on the potential death or crippling injury of any man in the ring. Who here cries tears when they see Gurgel’s achilles get blown to smithereens by Imanari? He was never the same fighter after that, and instead we cheer it as a particularly awesome and vicious submission. So I’m not interested in being preached to like there are heroes out here watching MMA in some righteous manner.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Of course I watch because I enjoy violence. But like with anything there is a line. And that line for me in particular is drawn at repeated head trauma.
I’m not trying to sound preachy, and I apologize if I am, but just because there are certain standards on paper right now, doesn’t necessarily mean that they are always enough.
I have a good friend of mine that was professional hockey player who spent the majority of his short career kicking around the minors acting mostly as an enforcer. In 7 years of playing pro hockey he estimates he suffered anywhere between 10-15 concussions and I can tell you he is a shell of his former self because of it. It has drastically affected his quality of life and his relationship with his family including his two children.
In the next five to ten years I guarantee we will see a big wave of former mixed martial artists suffering the same fate and Chuck Lidell is going to be the poster boy for fighters who have had their brains scrambled too many times.
The safety standards in MMA have improved leaps and bounds in the past ten years but they still aren’t enough. I’m a fan of combat sports and violence is one of the reasons for that, but I also know that there’s a line and Chuck Lidell has gone over that line.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
The potential is there with every fight that happens in the ring. Don’t make it sound like it isn’t. You aren’t a hero for demanding that Chuck Liddell doesn’t get in the ring while praising people who do. If anything, you’re helping enable people to get to the point Chuck is at now, and when they’re at this stage, trying to reason with them is going to be hopeless.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Who said I’m trying to be hero?
I’m well aware of the inherent risks in the sport that exist with every single fight. By why exponentially increase the odds of a potentially devastating and sport altering moment happening by throwing an obvious high risk fighter into the cage?
That you are apparently oblivious to the ramification of such an event is really disturbing.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
Why don't we leave the whole "high risk fighter"
business up to the ACs?
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
since when do they have the best interest
of the fighters at heart?
Yes, they’re supposed to, and how many fights have they ixnayed in the past year?
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Aug 2, 2010 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I am totally aware of the potential ramification of such an event, and I’m here to tell you that I accept it as being inevitable. You want MMA to not be a sport that chews up and spits out its competitors, and that is a noble goal. I am here to tell you, however unfortunate this may be, that it is a fruitless dream. MMA really isn’t different from boxing or kickboxing. There’s a trail of broken bodies all over the history of this sport that no one cares about already. No one cares that Ken Shamrock is taking beatings and roided up. No one cares that Don Frye is addicted to painkillers. No one cares that Gary Goodridge is having trouble counting the money he makes in Romania. Again: NO ONE CARES.
So I’m taking the only sane position possible – I have to not care. And I’ll let the ACs decide who is a high risk fighter and what is a high risk fight and go from there.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I think you just described why the whole "hope and change" thing died
Moreso than the nature of combat sports… on both fronts, we passed the tipping point of ‘making a deal with the devil’ a long time ago.
Wow
People take some shit way out of proportion.
From the boxing stand point, this is exactly what would happen.
Should this happen? Probably not, I know I wouldn’t want to watch it.
..but would this “theoretically” work out exactly as it’s said above? Most likely.
It’s what made boxing a real sad thing to watch, and I’d pray it isn’t promoted or trended towards in MMA.
...
I understand the base point of the article, but its just cloaked in …bleh and its poorly timed and totally unnecessary and…
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
I love the idea that a discussion of Bones Jones is poorly timed—-the night of a Jones fight. I encourage you to disagree if you disagree. But don’t be stupid.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 2, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
This is poorly timed like saying Lesnar and Carwin is completely unskilled an hour after their fight is poorly timed. What are you aiming to accomplish by saying an hour after this fight, “you know, if this were boxing Jon Jones would beat up an old man now”.
It’s just totally unwarranted.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
by Sam Cupitt on Aug 2, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes well I’m not surprised you’d disagree.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
“I hate topical discussion,” Sam Cupitt.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 2, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
There is a time and a place for these articles that you write. You can still get your viewpoint across and stimulate your dicussion without whipping out your beloved devils advocate penis on fight night.. You don’t see why people get outraged when they come back on the site after watching a night of fights to see “WHY YOU JUST WATCHED ISN’T REALLY THAT IMPRESSIVE” by JonathanSnowden and “HERE’S AN INFLAMMATORY MATCH-UP” by Jonathan Snowden.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
by Sam Cupitt on Aug 2, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s about all they see too. I don’t think people even read the story, both of which you are mentioning have valid ideas and thoughts that can debated. It just so happens right after fights, a ton of people just post hate and don’t put a ton of effort into their disagreement. It then becomes a “Snowden’s just trolling” thing because they see the comments of all these pissed off half drunk internet users. Could it be a morning after thing? Yeah, but why bother? Give all the browsers of BE right after a fight a place to come debate. It’s not like there’s no meat to these pieces Snowden puts up.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 2, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
The thoughts and opinions are valid. The timing is wrong. He posts these inflammatory articles on fight night which completely destroys the entire vibe of the night for anyone reading this site after the fights. The discussion is no longer about what actually happened in the fights or anything like that but rather “how many different ways can we disagree with the outlandish shit Snowden just said”.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
by Sam Cupitt on Aug 2, 2010 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is ridiculous
Let the people who visit the site decide if they want to discuss “what actually happened in the fights” or Snowdens timely proposed match-up.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
No
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
How was this a Devils Advocate article at all? He doesn’t dis Jon Jones once. He’s not putting the guy down at all – just presenting an idea for a matchup that would put him over to a lot of fans. I don’t agree with his choice in opponent or venue, but this isn’t a piece that fits the mold of the other ones. This is just Snowden hate.
http://www.instrength.com
by Tim Burke on Aug 2, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're better at this than me
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
The Devil’s advocate part was more directed at his other articles. That message kinda got lost in the rest of it. The issue is changing the focus of fight night debate onto inflammatory match-ups that have no need to be discussed on the night.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
They’re enjoying hating on Snowden, which looks to be becoming a fight night tradition.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
I dunno man, there’s a lot of people just here discussing the issue. Not a ton of hate. His reasoning isn’t far-fetched here, it’s just a compelling idea that people are going to argue down because Chuck is so loved. This piece wasn’t inflammatory at all. It’s funny to me that you’re implying all the Snowden hate when you’re actually employing that exact reasoning for discounting this piece.
http://www.instrength.com
“…Chuck is so loved damaged.”
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Aug 2, 2010 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions
i DO NOT agree with snowden on this
and i’m very much enjoying the conversations here but it’s not about hating on snowden
it’s about having a forum to express my differing opinions
in a respectful manner
i don’t enjoy the douche baggery but i certainly do enjoy the intelligent conversation
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Reading through this and it appears opinions are pretty mixed. Projecting a little here Sam?
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 2, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
i'm not
I’m pretty sure I came close to getting a couple warnings or being banned and I definitely had to censor what I actually think of this post in order to make sure I don’t. This entire article is the dumbest fkin idea I’ve ever seen written here by one of the contributors. This is something I’d expect under a fanpost by some mouthbreather and not a “respected” author.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Aug 2, 2010 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions
“Inflammatory”… “Need”…
Really dude? Anyone who takes this article as “inflammatory” probably needs to check their perspective. As for “need”, there is no “need” for anything to be discussed. It does make sense, however, to discuss the next match ups for someone right after their last fight.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
"Beloved devils advocate penis", rofl
You, sir, win. You win.
I don’t get it. Usually talking about a fighters next fight should be done right after his last one. That’s the norm. It’s fun. Why is it poorly timed when Snowden does it?
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
this post has pretty much nothing to do with Jones
and everything to do with Liddell. I’d LOVE to have legit discussions about who he’ll fight next. Griffin, T Silva, or maybe little Nog. I’ll repeat myself, Chuck Liddell is what is at issue with this post, not Bones’ next fight.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Aug 2, 2010 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions
How is it that Sergio Hernandez comes at you…you tell him he shouldn’t be namecalling and that he should be better than that? Then you turn around and call someone else stupid?
Not really. Sergio is a good guy. It’s pretty simple really.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 2, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Did you miss the apology? They handled that whole thing in a very mature manner. It’s a beacon of light in a cesspool of textual vomit. lol
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 2, 2010 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow...
I must have missed Snow hating on Sergio.
Sigh… the internets, you little scoundrel.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
I did change my view. I overreacted, plain and simple.
Although I did get an email that HTRMMA.com was following me on Twitter. I quickly assumed it meant HaterMMA and I was like, “Seriously? I get that label just like that?”
Turns out it’s HitTheRopesMMA.
by Applejack McNeil on Aug 2, 2010 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't care if you are the authority
don’t you ever…take the words…I say something…and turn it upside…against me DAMMIT!
I’m not harping on you or nothing Snowden but realistically speaking you guys are going to tend to be hypocritical every now and then. But seriously, lets not get into a thing when we just started to repair this mutual hatred we’ve had for each other.
2010 Summer of Side Boob.
IDK, I like it...
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
I think Snowden actually brings up a good point. My reasoning: If Chuck wants to keep fighting, might as well throw him in against someone who can actually benefit from beating him. Think about it, none of the top guys would really have anything to gain from fighting Chuck (Shogun, Rashad, and Page already have Ws on him) and why risk having Chuck lose to some mid-tier guy who has no shot of getting into the top of the division?
Snowden is right: Bones beating Liddell would add a huge name to his resume and help him gain a much larger mainstream following. If the Iceman were to score the upset, it helps him breathe a little life into his career. If he loses, well shit he lost to a rising star with some of the greatest potential in the sport today and can go out (somewhat) gracefully as opposed to getting KTFO by a mid-tier nobody.
I know everyone loves Chuck (myself included) and no one wants to see him get really hurt, but if he insists he’s still got gas in the tank this puts him in a fight with the greatest possible net benefit for those involved.
But if you are stupid, you will be beaten with a stick - Proverbs 10:13
No. I disagree respectfully. Neither fighter has anything to gain here
Any intelligent person would realize beating a glass-jawed, very old Chuck Liddell should not catapult Jones into contention. If Chuck wins it’s a great upset and Jones has a setback. Chould could also think he still has it he’s going to get knocked out again and get further damage to his brain.
Chuck should retire for his own good, and Bones should fight someone in the top 10.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
It won’t catapult him into contention. He’s already there. Its about increasing public profile. Beating some schmoe doesn’t increase that. Beating stars does.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Why waste it on Chuck?
Have him fight someone like Forrest.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
He can fight Forrest after he beats up Chuck. It’s riskier of course.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 2, 2010 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
He can fight Forrest right now (of course I mean months from now)
Instead of needlessly giving Chuck more punishment.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
There's no point for a Chuck fight at all
Once he beats Forrest then boom, he gets all the exposure he needs without having to go visit a nursing home in between.
Despite what everyone else thinks I believe Dana really does care about Chuck’s safety and he genuinely seems far from enthusiastic about him ever returning to the octagon. Chuck said he would stop fighting if Dana ever went into “cut Chuck” mode and White was very adamant about the fact that Chuck was done after the Franklin fight.
Chuck is very much done, simple as that. There is no torch to pass cause it was knocked out of his hands about 6 fights ago. It just wouldn’t make enough sense to take this kid, that people have been clamoring for to face tougher competition, and now have him go up against a beat up old timer on a two year downward spiral. Like what’s been stated, Randy Couture is a much more appropriate choice.
BTW, can’t wait till this thread gets hijacked and turned into humping fat chicks or big bottomed Brazilian bitches.
2010 Summer of Side Boob.
by Fake Emcee on Aug 2, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Did it get hijacked yet?
If not, Darlene Amaro.
205 is such a deep division
i don’t see a need to go to chuck when there are plenty of stars at the top of the ladder who could provide exposure boost his ranking and last but not least
truly test jones
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
this fight, which of course would never happen, would be completely unnecessary.
2010 Summer of Side Boob.
He can fight Forrest and Randy and Rampage and whomever else after. Once he starts fighting guys like Forrest Griffin, how can they really justify such a backstep as Liddell?
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
now this i agree with
it’s time for jones to truly be tested
he’s fought his way to the top and deserves top competition
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Then what do you do with Chuck?
Sure, I agree that its really in Chuck’s best interests to retire. But knowing Liddell, that is very unlikely. Do Dana and Joe Silva just refuse to give him a fight? In the situation where you have to give Chuck an opponent, I think someone like Bones makes the most sense.
But if you are stupid, you will be beaten with a stick - Proverbs 10:13
Is Chuck still a star?
He was certainly the biggest star of his era, but what are his recent PPV numbers looking like? Is he still that big of a draw that more people would tune in to see Jones fight him over someone like Rampage or Griffin?
He was the only real draw at UFC 115 and that show did over 600,000 buys, says the internet. So he’s obviously a star. Possibly the biggest one in the division still.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Didn't Rampage/Rashad have a much better buyrate?
I might be incorrect but I seem to recall it being very high.
Together with a TUF season, they drew. Apart, they didn’t draw so well.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Do we really want MMA to be more like boxing?
by simpsycho on Aug 2, 2010 12:50 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Kinda what I was thinking. I thought the idea was NOT to be like boxing since their antics have turned a lot of fans off over the years(myself being one o them).
Johnny Ringo: [Ringo steps up to Doc] And you must be Doc Holliday.
Doc Holliday: That's the rumor.
Johnny Ringo: You retired too?
Doc Holliday: Not me. I'm in my prime.
by MyFistYourFace on Aug 2, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
If you’re going to feed an aging superstar headfirst into the woodchipper, send Randy. At least Randy will have a winning streak going.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
Agreed!
Joe Silva generally matches winners up against winners. At least they could sell a fight w/Jones and Couture as legit. The media and hardcores would crucify Zuffa if they made the Chuck/Jones fight now.
Its not worth the risk of loss of credibility to put on a fight like this. Also, the boxing model doesn’t rely on a company brand like the Zuffa model does. They can afford to be more cut-throat in boxing because the promoter’s reputation isn’t on the line. Everyone knows Don King is a scum bag but they don’t care cuz his name is not what sells boxing PPVs.
Johnny Ringo: [Ringo steps up to Doc] And you must be Doc Holliday.
Doc Holliday: That's the rumor.
Johnny Ringo: You retired too?
Doc Holliday: Not me. I'm in my prime.
by MyFistYourFace on Aug 2, 2010 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
jones will be a star as soon as he starts fighting stars
he doesn’t need to be spoon fed
and it doesn’t need to be chuck because there are a bunch of stars at the top of the 205 ladder
i want to see jones tested
i want to see what he’s made of and i believe it to be time for that to happen
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 12:53 AM EDT reply actions
It would also help
to take this kid off of Versus and at least put him on Spike, you know…a channel that people actually know they have. Bader should’ve been the one headlining this Versus card, not Jones twice in a row.
2010 Summer of Side Boob.
agree
there are better ways to boost his popularity than feeding chuck to him
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Better? Maybe
Easier? Not many.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
i can accept that
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the Versus card is aimed more towards the hardcores
Because in both shows we haven’t had a TUF guy on the main card, something you always see on Spike. I do agree he should be on Spike.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
Fuck that. Then I wouldn’t have gotten to see Jones fight live at the Sports Arena.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
On that note how was Stann/Massenzio?
I’m assuming you were there for the prelims…
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
I was. It was a fun fight. Stann looked better at 185, I thought.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
Cool. Guess it deserved FOTN
How bad did Irvin look?
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
FOTN seems reasonable for it.
He ate a bunch of shots standing then tapped almost instantly to what they said was an RNC, but that didn’t look like it was under his chin at all.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
I think he ought to be on PPV
He’s headlined two TV cards and done an incredible job on both. Put him on whatever card Lesnar or GSP are fighting on next, a million people will see him fight and I’d bet money most of them walk away impressed, no matter who his opponent is.
Or you could put him on a Spike show
Possibly a “numbered” one, and watch 5 times the audience adore him at no cost at all.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
What Spike show has done those sort of ratings?
The last VS show drew about 1.24 million viewers, that’s not that much less than the average Fight Night. If you put him on a PPV with Brock or GSP you expose him to those fans that only watch the UFC if someone they’ve heard of is fighting (and that’s a whole lot of fans) and possibly make them a fan of his.
Tito/Shamrock did.
Kimbo did.
If Jones fought Liddell on free TV, you could expect a huge rating, perhaps even 5 million viewers. But they won’t come out for Jones/Brilz.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions
UFC 70 and 75 did outstanding ratings
Suppose the UFC puts the Germany show for free on Spike….why not put in a real main event (none of this Bisping/Akiyama crap) and just stick Jones on the main card?
Easy easy ratings.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
There’s a big difference between a Jones development fight and Rampage/Henderson unifying the light heavyweight title in terms of percieved value by fans. I doubt a free UFC headlined by Jones with someone who’s not a star alongside him does any better than a UFN headlined by him. Heck, who’s gonna buy a ticket in Germany for that?
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 2, 2010 7:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought I made it very clear Jones wouldn't headline the card.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
very true
his flashy dominant style is tailor made to be popular
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
No, that would be dumb and risky for Chuck's health. Plain and simple.
"Everyone has a game plan, untell they get hit." -Mike Tyson
Just because you don't like it
Doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense. For 41/2 minutes Chuck looked better than he had in years, then he walked into a punch. Now we need a hearse outside a liddel – jones fight because we need THAT level of exageration to back up an argument that the two shouldn’t fight.
Imagine if they switched Hamil out and put lidell in, with winner taking on Jones. If lidell wins he’s got a little bit of heat back, and he’s still a huge star. But you still couldn’t put him in against a top 5 opponent. If Tito wins, Lidell would have no excuse not to retire, and Tito would have some hype having finally beaten Chuck. Again, Tito isn’t someone you could put in vs top 5.
Either way, jones vs chuck or Tito, jones takes a step towards fighting a top 5 opponent.
by Ironbuddha on Aug 2, 2010 1:10 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Part of the problem isn't that Chuck doesn't have the ability to be great anymore
He will always have knockout power, good sprawl etc. but after suffering multiple clean KO’s and some of the brutal wars he’s been in ie. Wandy, you have to look after his health. It doesn’t matter who you are, receiving that many concussive blows is dangerous and leaves you more susceptible for another one and in Chuck’s case, all Jones would have to do is throw a jab and Chuck would probably fold like a lawn chair. His reflexes and speed have slowed considerably as well, leaving him unable to compete with the top in the division.
by dreamers_12345 on Aug 2, 2010 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Chuck Liddell shouldn't be fighting anybody
For his health…unless its against ortiz
snowden nate etc
would you not prefer to see jones be tested?
he’s passed the litmus test he qualifies as a contender
time to hold him up to the light
and see how he fares in the deepest division in mixed martial arts
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 1:20 AM EDT reply actions
I think he has plenty of time to be tested
I’d like to see him be a star.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
Agreed. It’s been awhile since they built a new star. It’s time.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 2, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Although you made some "valid" points thru historical comparison.
Johnny “Bones” Jones vs Chuck “The Iceman” Liddell TODAY, is one of the absolute, most idiotic sentences ive ever written in response to an article.
It is dangerous to be sincere unless you are also stupid.
I'm Not Afraid of Dying, I'm a Little Bit Scared of What Comes After...
by SouthCaliStunNa on Aug 2, 2010 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d prefer to watch him in a fight that might be interesting to watch.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Aug 2, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I guess I am easy
if there is a fight, I am interested.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
the top of 205 is full of stars
in being tested he would become a star
who is keizer soze
by Johnathan Willis on Aug 2, 2010 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions
That's not true
Machida was never really a star, he still isn’t. At least not in the sense I am talking about.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
It took this long for Machida to get a damn fight after his first loss... took damn long for him to get fights, period
But Shogun and Evans may not be on the level you’re speaking of either…
I'd like to see him in a match that wouldn't be a guaranteed blowout.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
The minute I saw the title
I knew this was a Snowden article. I think that’s all I’m gonna say.
by gzl5000 on Aug 2, 2010 1:20 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I figured it out from the byline.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Aug 2, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Win
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
...
dealing with Post-World Cup Depression
by DamnSevern on Aug 2, 2010 1:57 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
and I would rather watch Chuck watch fights
than actually watch him fight
dealing with Post-World Cup Depression
I honestly think the UFC is doing a great job of building Jones, they are creating a draw. When Dana says Bones is going to make a lot of money he knows on the next contract he’ll be getting ppv moneys.
"Holy Crap Lashley is one Bi black dude. He just looks so immensely thick in that picture."
-Pain
540 comments huh
Sad as it is, game, set, match for Snowden.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis
Here’s a wild idea – how about Jon Jones fight somebody who’s actually really good in his next fight? Someone who can really push him and test him? Maybe someone with a good BJJ game, so he can learn that he can’t keep posting his arms while inside a guy’s guard.
This would be a lot more interesting than seeing Jon Jones run game on Chuck Liddell. We already know how that fight would go down. Nobody needs to see that. Jon Jones already has all the hype in the world behind him, probably more than old Vitor and Brandon Vera ever had combined. He doesn’t need to decapitate Chuck Liddell to be “put over” with the fans. He’s already there.
Check out my MMA highlight videos!
http://www.dailymotion.com/WheelchairBandit
We need to look at the ratings to determine
if he is already there.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Cagesideseats.com
You are a guy in the internet bubble. I don’t think Jones is more than another “guy” to many fans. Beating Liddell puts him on the map.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 2, 2010 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Using a faded star to boost a talented, but less popular fighter will work. Snowden is correct that it is a time tested strategy.
The downside to this is when a lesser known fighter seriously hurts a faded legend that fighter not only becomes infamous for beating up an icon, sometimes the whole sport suffers. You gave the example of Chavez getting pounded by De La Hoya, but how about Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali? Holmes was despised for years for the beating he inflicted, and millions of people stopped watching boxing altogether because of Ali’ s problems after his career ended. (I know Parkinson’s isn’t always a result of fighting, but I won’t listen to the argument that him getting the disease and being punched in the head for 20 years is a coincidence)
The fight you talked about will absolutely make Jones a more popular figure in the short term, but it could have dangerous consequences and set a really bad precedent for the future. MMA should try to learn from boxing’s errors not repeat them.
by Compucrazy on Aug 2, 2010 3:37 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
And if a miracle happens you can immediately insert Liddell into a title fight in a real life Rocky Balboa story.
Wait, when did Balboa lose five out of six matches? If Liddell won it’d be disastrous. The fastest rising prospect in the division, or possibly any divisions, will have been totally derailed and will have to go to the back of the line again, when right now he’s about two fights away from a title shot. Liddell won’t get another title shot himself, either. Beating a guy who is not yet Top 5 after such a large slide does not earn him a title shot. This would be doubly reinforced by the fact that most likely Shogun or Rashad Evans will be champion at the time, both of whom knocked Liddell out already. It wouldn’t even get him a #1 contender’s fight considering how much he’s lost.
Dana should put his feelings aside and make this fight. It’s what Liddell needs to move on.
Is it? Wasn’t he going to move on after the Shogun fight? Wasn’t he supposed to move on after getting knocked out by Franklin? Both of those were first round knockouts too. Are you really sure one more loss will make him move on? The only thing that would be certain is he’ll have lost six out of seven instead of five out of six, and will have tarnished his legacy even more.
It’s what Jones needs to be a star.
Or you could just give the guy match-ups more appropriate to his perceived skill level, and he’ll be a star if he continues to win. He’s about two fights away from a title shot right now (something like either Thiago or Franklin is likely and then the winner of Lyoto/Rampage), so three fights away from being champion. If he continues to win, particularly if he continues to dominate in the fashion he’s been doing, there is no way he won’t become a star. And if he can’t beat someone like Thiago Silva then he doesn’t deserve to be a title challenger anyway.
by Chromium on Aug 2, 2010 4:14 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Or maybe we could get Kimbo back and let him maul an internet sensation
It is good to see them develop prospects for a while on undercards, but this was Jones second main event squash match. Everyone is anointing him the future of his division; he should fight the top guys.
I totally disagree with Mr. Snowden, he should be fighting Thiago Silva or Brilz or Forrest or little Nog. Even Bader. But not Chuck Liddell.
Filters ?
Can we set filters on our account settings so that JonathanSnowden articles (for example) don’t shows up on the front page ?
I think it could be a great feature.
I have set a special filter for you….
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 2, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
That Rule #4, man, it's a hell of a rule....
"I might know a couple things that you don't know. 'Cause I've been young, but you ain't never been old." - Elvin Bishop
wow
I didn’t expected that. I don’t really come at BE to find breaking news or the lastest MMA results. But more for the intersting articles/stories that the website / his writers (sometime members) has to offer. And I m sure I m not the only one in this case.
So I have my favorites writers that I like to read. I think it’s normal to have writers you like and others you don’t like.
That why I brought up that feature, I really think it could be a great idea. Something such as your “personal” home page.
over 550 comments
at first i wasnt touching this since the article was written purely for the purpose of getting comments and driving website hits up but job well done snowden ur eloquently written article about a horrible horrible idea that i honestly hope u dont believe (u dont put a guy whos lost 5 of 6 against a guy whos basically 12-0 and destroyed everyone doing it) did the job, congratulations
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
Of course you do. It’s how you make guys who are 13-0.
by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 2, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
cmon buddy
ur great at driving up hits to the website and creating discussion after events and good for u i guess, but brock and carwin didnt fail to impress and jones should not fight chuck liddell its that simple
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
It is what they do in boxing all the time
Snowden must be a boxing fan who wants to see MMA fail.
"Right Leg Hospital, Left Leg Cemetery " ~ Cro Cop.
"One time my wrist watch stopped from fear". ~ Cro Cop.
One thing is certain:
Jonathan Snowden must HATE Chuck Liddell.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Yeah…we should take our cues from a dying sport reviled for his corrupt, nonsensical and boring matchmaking. That way maybe we can gon the way of the 8 track as well.
Oh crap I just fed the troll…
by Sudo's KFC on Aug 2, 2010 10:44 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Good Topic
Snowden, I completely disagree with the choice of fighter, but I appreciate the concept. I hadn’t thought about Jones fighting another has been to elevate his star status.
I actually think that fighting Liddell would do nothing for Jones. Liddell is not the same PPV draw he once was and I don’t want to see the guy get hurt any further. I want to remember the guy who killed Ortiz, not was killed by Jones.
I was really disappointed in the fight last night. I don’t think it proved anything for Jones to demolish Matty. Here are some fights (along the same line of logic that Snowden presents) that I think would benefit Jones:
1. Randy Couture – I actually do not think Randy would take the fight
2. Little Nog – Lost his last fight to Brilz (should have) but has a great standup game and amazing ground.
3. Rampage – He is Rashad’s enemy and would sell some serious PPV. Jones can sell the same thing he is with Toney, “Ima beat his #@$”
4. Anderson Silva – I hope no one actually believes Silva when he says he does not want to go up or down in weight. This is a fight that EVERYONE would PPV. It literally could be sold as Ali Frasier or something. This fight would be the culmination of that 3rd Generation of fighter that Couture was describing last night. Kobe vs. Jordan.
Is Jonathan Snowden just an alias for Jason Whitlock?
Snowden appears to have the same contrarian/controversial journalistic style as Jason Whitlock from the Kansas City Star. Whitlock is always coming up with crazy, loopy ideas, predictions & presumptions seemingly just to get reactions and subsequently more attention. The ol’ “what will he come up with next?” schtick.
You are right that boxing does this stuff all the time but it doesn’t mean it betters the sport or makes sense for the fighters. Chuck is done, Jones would only add more unnecessary punishment and I have to believe you know that and you know better. Stop with the “attention grabbers” and write real.
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