Does James Toney Have Some Tricks Up His Sleeve for Randy Couture at UFC 118?
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 9, 2010 5:08 PM EDT
in MMA Events
Email
Print
Former Maxboxing (and current Ring Magazine) scribe Doug Fischer thinks so:
...the old man is actually training hard and learning the fundamentals of the MMA ground game. Toney’s people have studied Randy Couture closely and they believe there are many opportunities for Toney to catch the MMA legend’s chin with clean shots. If Toney does hit Couture flush, my guess is that he’ll take out the UFC favorite. I haven’t studied Couture enough to know if Toney’s team is on to something or if they’re just hoping to get lucky, but they tell me that the MMA vet has been rocked in four of his last five fights, which makes me think Lights Out might have a shot next month. We’ll see.
It will be interesting to see what approach Couture takes for this fight. I think it's key for him to treat this bout like it was UFC 13. Forget all the nuances and intricacies you've learned over the years Randy. For this fight, it's all about the basics. Shooting the double leg from as far away as possible-that's the name of the game for "The Natural." Any other game plan is potential suicide, bad for both Couture and the UFC.
After the Jump, a video look at what Toney's secret weapon might be.
Update:
Reader smoogy2 believes Toney's secret weapon may be a devestating counter right hand, a shot Couture may be vulnerable to if the two men exchange much leather.
'Counter Right Hand' by Toney (via NTBak47)
102 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I dont doubt that he has been studying the fundamentals of grappling
He’d be stupid not to do so.
But it doesnt compare with someone who has wrestled and competed for decades
The “UFC 13” analogy is just about right. There’s simply no way that Toney can become solid enough at take down defence or submission defence or scrambling back to his feet in the short time that he has been working on them to be able to stop Couture. If Toney’s camp is looking at film from the Nog fight to see opportunities to hit Couture, they forget that Couture isn’t fighting someone who is a threat to submit him. If they are looking at film from Brandon Vera, they forget that Vera is a very good wrestler with very good kicks, two things Toney doesn’t have. The fact that Couture really has to only gameplan for one thing – power shots from Toney’s hands – means that they don’t really have any recent film of how Couture will fight a guy like Toney.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 9, 2010 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Doesn't have good kicks?
Side Check Kick? That’s gonna mess Randy up.
"Death, so called, is a thing which makes men weep, And yet a third of life is passed in sleep."
- Lord Byron
by MyFightWiffaCheeto on Jul 10, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
learning is one thing
applying in a fight when the adrenaline is pumping is another
How you expect to run with the wolves come night when you spend all day sparring with the puppies - Omar Little
by The Omaplatapus on Jul 9, 2010 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
agree completely
also different when there’s a world class fighter standing across from you trying to hurt you as well. Look at some seasoned MMA fighters and how quickly their gameplans change in the face of adversity. Tooney is in for a rude awakening.
Is Randy susceptible to taking Some Shots?
Randy will certainly take Toney down but there’s a strong chance of something happening before Couture locks on to a single or double leg takedown.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
i dont see randy giving him the opportunity to counter
no punch, no counter. low leg kicks, shoot in, take em down. done deal.
toney is using the oldest trick in the book right now: his mouth. randy’s been around too long to let that muhammed ali sh*t get under his skin
I've been fantasizing about being with Brock. He's so hot.
by arm.bar.bandit on Jul 9, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Couture has been leaning into the right cross/overhand in pretty much every fight since the first Liddell rematch. And when you google “Counter Right Hand”, this is the first thing that shows up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDrFQtbM2rc
Just sayin.
Some would argue that...
Rolling shoulders to counter like that leads to an easy takedowns in MMA though…
True, but is there a such thing as an easy takedown for a 48 year old man? I’m not saying I’m convinced Toney will win or anything, but I think he has more left athletically. Couture has noticably lost a step since the Sylvia/Gonzaga fights.
Although it's not much of an accomplishment
Couture took down Coleman very easily and was able to control a guy whose wrestling is just as good as his.
I would also bet that Coleman is much stronger than Toney.
For a 48 year old olympic alternate to take down a man who has had little to no formal training in grappling I think will be easy :)
I apologize for my never-ending assault on the English Language. I feel like Qui the promoter from Jade Empire...
Indeed.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 9, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Coleman also landed a clean punch early in the fight that made Couture step away. But overall, they bothed looked like they’re running on fumes.
That fight was so depressing to watch that I don’t even remember Coleman throwing a punch, much less one that landed.
Not that I don’t believe you, but I’ve done my best to wipe that fight out of my mind.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
It was awsome. Couture VS a robot.
At least that’s how it looked to me.
by Kim Hvid Johnsen on Jul 9, 2010 6:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You crazy,
Toney i’m sure has an advantage in hand speed, but that about it.
Ride the Tiger!
by doonerthesooner on Jul 9, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Smoogy never met a contrarian underdog position that he didn’t like.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 9, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Awww, where’s your sense of humour?
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 9, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
His sense of humor lost via triangle.
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 9, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
hahahaha
chubby gets choked by chiangle
by Body Triangle on Jul 10, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I killed it
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 9, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Randy may need a hip replacement if he tries a head kick at this point.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 9, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
True
But Toney damn well could eat a knee if he tries getting cute with the bobbing & weaving.
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture- "The Best Never Rest!"
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Jul 9, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
And of course it was a Toney highlight reel from a John Ruiz fight. Ruiz gets no love :(
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Jul 9, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s mean.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 9, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Toney doesn’t rely on just a counter right hand, he has as much punch variety as anyone in the sport of boxing. Randy, while closing the distance, is liable to get hit with an uppercut or hook from either hand by Toney. I think James is a real live underdog.
where is this sentiment coming from that Randy is just gonna wilt as soon as Toney touches him?
Ride the Tiger!
by doonerthesooner on Jul 9, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Just because he doesn't have a bunch of KO's doesn't mean he's "pillowfisted"
Ride the Tiger!
by doonerthesooner on Jul 9, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the internet
You either have soul-stopping power or you’re a pillow-fisted pansy. There is no middle ground.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
by woomikee on Jul 9, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Rec’d, and my new signature. Both funny and a great point.
"I'd love to be a Cheick Kongo looking brother that could actually move and do a lot of funky stuff - Jiu Jitsu, takedowns, kicks and stuff." - Jon Jones.
"This is the internet: you either have soul-stopping power or you’re a pillow-fisted pansy. There is no middle ground." - woomikee
Wow!
I’m honored!
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
This fight really seems to have no upside for Randy
What does he gain? He’s expected to win. He can get caught by a counter right though and it’d be over. I really don’t like this fight at all.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
Couture gains the notoriety and image of Captain America planting an american flag into the bloated corpse of boxing
by pandaboy99 on Jul 9, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
People like you are why I hope Couture gets KTFO. It would be fun to watch you cry after the fact.
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Jul 9, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
It goes both ways. I dont understand why you cant like boxing and mma?
by bigc4277 on Jul 9, 2010 5:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If Toney wins, MMA fans will cry, “Couture’s old and washed up”.
If Couture wins, boxing fans will cry, “Toney’s old and washed up”.
Nobody “wins” this debate until a top-level boxer and a top-level mma fighter actually square off, and then one side will bitch about the rules being unfair or something…
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 9, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
This.
And you know what? It’s true. They’re both far removed from their primes. And we all know how this goes down; Randy wins in MMA, Toney wins in boxing. Those are their respective professions.
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture- "The Best Never Rest!"
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Jul 9, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Funny how motivating that can be!
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 9, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
“Wives” (plural) is correct. I’d hate to see what Randy’s fees to his ex-wives are…
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 9, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
And the kids. He must get pissed everytime a new iPhone comes out.
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 9, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Randy just needs to shoot in for ankle pick from halfway across the Octagon. Don’t even give the guy a chance to throw a punch (unless he wants to lean over and throw one at a guy who is at about knee level).
Exactly
Stays completely out of range while slamming Toney on his ass.
Unless he suddenly gets some kicks Toney has no choice but to grapple.
I apologize for my never-ending assault on the English Language. I feel like Qui the promoter from Jade Empire...
Watch out: side check kick comments in bound.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 9, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
side check kicks
are in a realm of their own…
They supercede the unified rules
I apologize for my never-ending assault on the English Language. I feel like Qui the promoter from Jade Empire...
People are really taking this fight way too personally, it’s not personal it’s a fight if Toney wins it basically will be because Couture’s chin can’t take shots anymore. If Randy wins it’s because Toney it too one dimensional either way the world won’t end with either result.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
Agreed; that’s why Dana admits that it’s a freakshow fight. It’s essentially meaningless except as entertainment.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 9, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Like any high-level boxer, Toney has fast, accurate hands. It’s just something acquired after training to throw leather for your entire life.
James Toney starts the fight with the advantage. To take him down, Randy Couture has to get in striking range. Toney has a real chance of tagging him on the way in.
Fischer
Says a lot of things.
I am absolutely amazed that anyone thinks Toney is going to do well. He can train as hard as he likes, but he’ll still be totally shot. In his last fight he got rocked by a complete can.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
i cant stand toney
but i cant take anything away from him boxing wise…when i heard bout randy taking this fight i said o shit..why? randy is in this stage were he is wanting to stand more and more in his fights..why? i dont know. BIG nog rocked him..just think if toney lands a shot.. I WANT RANDY to win..but every time i doubt randy wether it be out skilled or his age, he always suprises me with big wins or F’n A material fights like the nog vs randy fight…that said i hope randy wins.
Not gonna lie, I'm a little worried for that counta right hand right theah
Cause as we know Couture likes to fight and I’m SURE took him on just to challenge himself. He DID also say that it’d “be cool to submit Noguiera.” I really hope he doesn’t test his boxing skills for the fun of it cause I do fear him gettin hit by the counta right hand right theah . The counta right hand right theah just needs to land flush just ONE time for Couture.
by Krimson on Jul 9, 2010 5:36 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
John Ruiz
Tough sell to prove James Toney has a chance is a video against John Ruiz, one of the most methodically slow and plodding fighters of all time. Ruiz literally plods in and hugs you to death, which is perfect for a left shoulder roller like James Toney to roll Ruiz off and tag him with his very dangerous overhand right.
This should be taken with a grain of salt, as Ruiz on his best day isn’t a even a formidable boxing opponent, as his style was never based on anything close to resembling technical and fundamental boxing basics, which I believe Couture possesses and will not fall victim like The Quietman.
by greggo17 on Jul 9, 2010 5:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, you beat me to it.
Ruiz is not a strong boxer, has no hand speed, and terrible fundamentals (note the hands dropping all the time) and Toney couldn’t even stop him with all those counter-rights. So what does this tell us? That if Couture has completely forgotten how to keep his hands up and if his chin is as far gone as his biggest detractors think that Toney might have a shot after landing multiple unanswered counters as long as Couture forgets how to take him down? Okay, that sounds like something worth betting on…
He's at +485.
If the line widens to +600, I might put $10 on Toney. Not because I have any faith in his ability to win, but the combined risks of ‘freak injury’ and 4oz gloves at HW make that a tempting line in any MMA fight. It’s a shame the fight probably won’t happen anyways.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jul 9, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a shame the fight probably won’t happen anyways.
I keep hearing this. There are repeated cryptic rumours floating around that this fight is just a sham. What’s the reason for this? Not denying the possibility; just curious what it’s based on.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 9, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Toney is not a reliable person
and has been popped for PEDs twice. It is incredibly likely that he has no intention of fighting Randy and is just getting his name out, hoping the brief resurgence of interest will get him fights in boxing. Because right now, he can’t get any fights in boxing. That’s the jist of it.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jul 9, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true, if the line is good enough, why not lay a little down?
but I also agree that Toney will most likely find a reason to not make it to the fight.
Sorry Boys, these kinds of statements just show your ignorance and limited knowledge
greggo17:
This should be taken with a grain of salt, as Ruiz on his best day isn’t a even a formidable boxing opponent, as his style was never based on anything close to resembling technical and fundamental boxing basics, which I believe Couture possesses and will not fall victim like The Quietman.
And Enmascarado:
Ruiz is not a strong boxer, has no hand speed, and terrible fundamentals (note the hands dropping all the time) and Toney couldn’t even stop him with all those counter-rights. So what does this tell us?
Now the 1st one is so ridiculous that it really doesn’t merit noting. But just to clear it up for everyone else that thinks you may know what your talking about in some small way. John Ruiz was by no means an exciting fighter, but he did manage to win the WBA heavyweight title twice. Beat 3 world champions in Holyfield, Rahman and Tony Tucker as well as top 5 contenders Andrew Golota, Fres Oquendo, Jameel McCline and Kirk Johnson. He had a record of 44-9-1 with 30 KO’s over an 18 year span in which he fought everyone that signed the dotted line. He was only KO’d once by David Tua. That would explain why he could eat those counter rights and keep smiling.
Trust me, if Toney lands one of those rights on Couture, his night will be over. Lets not bash athletes from other sports out of ignorance. There would be no boxing expert or historian that would tell you that Ruiz was there favorite fighter or one of the all time greats. But they will always note that he came to fight, had determination and heart. And obviously had far more ability that your pointless drivel would suggest.
Yeah, we all kinda knew they had no credibility
Especially when greggo writes that Coutures “technical and fundamental boxing basics” would be better than Ruiz and the other guy suggest his Chin is better too!, lolz
by ALL4MMA on Jul 10, 2010 3:49 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Does James Toney Have Some Tricks up His Sleeve for Randy Couture at UFC 118?
No.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
Randy should bear crawl or butt scoot after Toney and take him down.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
by Ubernoober on Jul 9, 2010 6:01 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I would love to see him pull an Aoki.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 9, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't see how this should come as a surprise.
Toney already told him straight up:
“Randy, if you come at me with that rasslin, dirty boxin, I’ma choke yo ass out!”
I hope Randy does get chocked out just to see what kind of crazy stories BE will write post fight.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 9, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
And you thought Fedor losing was bad...
I apologize for my never-ending assault on the English Language. I feel like Qui the promoter from Jade Empire...
Now I read the stories and comments just out of entertainment. The crazier the better. The comments or so much fun to read. Sorta like why I sill read CNN.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 9, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point about Randy needing to go to basics. Nowadays wrestlers are more well rounded and sometimes hold off using their wrestling, hope Randy just comes right out and takes him down and shuts him up.
And seriously, the whole MMA vs Boxing thing is silly, we all know the answer and we’ve all seen it before over and over again whether it’s boxing or kick boxing or muay thai….
Grapples > striker with no ground
This could end up as an older, slower version of Koscheck vs. Daley...
…but if Toney sucker punches him after the bell, it could be lights out after all.
I hope Randy schools Toney because James has talked so much crap about mma and thinks he can walk in and just knock everybody out. He said he wanted Brock and if he wins this fight will say he wants a shot again. If somehow James wins this fight Larry Michell and the boxing world will blow it out of proportion and get thousands more yes to tune in to UFC for Jame’s next fight. So it kills boxing either way. James next fight would be against someone who can kick like Cro Cop to stay safe out of range and tag James with hard kicks all night till the fat fool gassed out at the start of round 2 and you finish hin with kicks to the body and head. What is he gonna do take ya down? Then what get himself choked out? I hope Randy gets a huge suplex or something and pounds this turkey out in round 1.
huh?
Who is Larry Michell? Whatever Toney does in this won’t have a major impact on boxing one way or the other. You’re talking nonsense.
I have a bad feeling that Randy being an ex boxer in the army will probably think he can stand and trade with Toney to try to “prove” that MMA’s striking is better as well and he will subsequently get KTFO and we will be treated to Larry Merchant translating James Toney’s post fight speech.
I wonder what effect the cage will have on toney? In some ways it might help him to circle endlessly away from Randy. It might also be his undoing if Randy just rushes him and presses him up against it and trips him down. Add that to the other dimensions toney isn’t schooled in, like kicks, elbows, knees and submissions, and toneys got a hell of a mountain to climb to win this fight.
by havomaster on Jul 9, 2010 9:02 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
puncher's chance
Here we have a case of a former boxing champ at multiple weights who beat guys like Holyfeild, fighting another guy in his 40’s that was a champ in mma at multiple weights. Randy made it to round 2 with Brock so he should get Toney down easily and pound him out
this card is stacked
The Dos Santos fight is huge plus we have BJ Penn trying to chase down Franky, and Randy vs JT.
If somehow some way Roy can get tangled up with Dos Santos and trip him and smother him on the ground get a north/south choke or something and win Dana will crap his pants. Can you imagine if Big Roy won and got to fight Brock/Cain for the belt? We could have a guy that trains at home, does not diet nor work out hard beat everyone and be the champ. Just some good ol’ boy who likes fighting. He’d be an American version of Fedor. However, I see no way Roy can beat Dos Santos. That guy will be the champ in 2011.
i agree with roy being champ in 2011
Twitter @i_c_u_hater
http://dreamthemez.wordpress.com
http://dreamthemez.unfilteredmma.com
http://fightlife.unfilteredmma.com
by Thats It For you! on Jul 9, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
In order for Toney to land that counter right...
he would have to stand in front of Couture and let him throw punches or risk a take down. I just don’t think Toney will have time to do his shoulder roll and right hand counter.
by GoldenSt8OfMind on Jul 10, 2010 12:36 AM EDT reply actions
Doug Fischer
isn’t great at picking fights and admits that he doesn’t even follow MMA.
I follow boxing (and MMA) closely and i used to respect him but he makes some strange picks.
Ludicrously he had Cotto to beat Pacquaio and Mosley to beat Mayweather (never stopped banging the drum about that one).
He could be right,Randy is 46-47 after all but then Toney is a shot fighter.
I’d say Fischer is very biased in favour of boxing.
James Toney
This guy is a washed up boxer,who hasn’t been in shape in years.Toney who has fail drug tests before,will need alittle extra to get out of the first round with Randy Couture.
by TERRENCEFROMSOUTHEAST on Jul 10, 2010 5:05 PM EDT reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bloody Elbow
Related FanShots on Bloody Elbow
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
