FightLines: UFC Heavyweights
by Mike Fagan on Jul 9, 2010 11:31 AM EDT
in MMA News
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Lesnar <> Mir
Brock Lesnar may be two fights away from strangling the heavyweight division Georges St-Pierre style.
Let's say, for argument's sake, that Lesnar gets past Cain Velasquez in the fall. He'll get the winner of Junior Dos Santos and Roy Nelson. While either could come out of that the winner, I feel comfortable saying Lesnar will be a significant favorite against either guy. So, he beats Dos Santos or Nelson.
Then what?
Do they make the winner of "Minotauro" Nogueira and Frank MIr sit out? Does Nogueira or the Mir rubber match do nothing for you too?
And hell, suppose Roy Nelson beats Junior Dos Santos. That's going to be a tough sell for Dana White.
I guess what I'm getting at is that Zuffa might have to pony up for one or two of those Strikeforce guys.
A look at upcoming heavyweight matchups after the break.
Roy Nelson vs. Junior Dos Santos @ UFC 117 - Imagine a world where Roy Nelson submits Junior Dos Santos and has to be put on a poster opposite Brock Lesnar or Cain Velasquez. I can hear boxing promoters and old mainstream media curmudgeons already. "Look at what passes for a heavyweight in this MMA thing." Whatever. Roy Nelson is no joke, and the UFC better be prepared to promote him in a heavyweight title fight.
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Frank Mir @ UFC 119 - Hopefully "Minotauro" can avoid Matt Hamill over the next few months. Mir, on the other hand, may want to avoid himself. After bulking up to the heavyweight limit for Cheick Kongo and Shane Carwin, Mir talked about going back to his "natural" weight. Then, he considered a drop to 205. Now he's talking about training hard again so he can kill Brock Lesnar. Right. I don't think they can give the winner a title shot, but the division's so shallow, who knows.
Brock Lesnar vs. Cain Velasquez @ UFC ??? - This was rumored for UFC 119, but Lesnar's side wanted it later. I can't say I blame them. That's an awfully quick turnaround after a grueling fight. While I understand why they need to hold off Velasquez (and Cain's camp may have preferred it as well), I would really have liked to see Velasquez and Dos Santos square off. It would have solidified the number one contender, kept Cain (because I think he wins that fight a lot of the time) Cain fresh in people's minds, and given Velasquez some more ring time. The kid only has eight pro fights and by the time this one goes down, it'll be eight or nine months since he last fought.
That's it for relevant, confirmed heavyweight fights.
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This is deepest the division has ever been
And it’s still only ankle deep. It’s time the love affair with the big men ended.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
by Worldisart on Jul 9, 2010 11:05 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
It's not that it's ankle deep
It’s that the big names haven’t really fought each other.
The division right now is no worse than PRIDE’s HW division which people act like it was the deepest ever.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 9, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
If Brock gets past both Cain and the Winner of Nelson vs JDS
I would imagine Carwin would get a rematch (assuming he continues to win).
Wn against who though?
Mike Russow? Ben Rothwell? Hardly compelling stuff.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
by Worldisart on Jul 9, 2010 11:08 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree the road back to a title shot would be rather dull
But a rematch with Brock Especially if he beats Cain and the winner of JDS vs Nelson would be huge.
I think they match Carwin up against the Mir-Big Nog winner. Should give Shane plenty of time to recover from his bout with “bronchitis.”
by Velcro on Jul 9, 2010 11:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Even if Mir wins?
There’s no way the UFC is going to be able to sell Mir/Carwin II. It’s a real bad spot. I would put money on Rothwell being the sacrificial lamb.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
by Worldisart on Jul 9, 2010 11:17 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Good point. How about Carwin-Cro Cop, assuming he doesn’t retire?
by Velcro on Jul 9, 2010 11:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And if Cro Cop does retire, give him Kongo.
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
by PapaBumpants on Jul 9, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Nah
Doesn’t seem worth it. Crocop has also said he wants to fight Big Nog, Gonzaga and Randy. He’s looking for compelling fights, not contention.
Guys like Kongo and Gonzaga can score a couple of cheap wins, then be considered quality means of getting Carwin back into the title picture. Remember— Gonzaga broke Shane’s nose and now sees some jits holes. I could see that being a #1 contender fight in 10 months (assuming the UFC doesn’t bring in any of SF’s talent, which renders this scenario useless). Guys like Duffee and Berry are going to be considered tough outs once they right the ship and there are young guys like Browne, Struve and Schaub that have considerable upside and will give the division the depth it needs. I think it’s a very solid group that is continually improving.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
me to
but soesnt kongo have a fight comming up
Isn’t he fighting Travis Browne at 120?
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
ah yes
that’s a hot match up. If Browne’s for real, Kongo will need a tune up fight to get back to gatekeeper status.
But if Browne’s not…Kongo vs Carwin baby!
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I’m always interested in seeing Kongo get beat down.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
i'd love to see
Carwin vs. Kongo myself…much more appealing than another fight w/Gonzaga or a fight w/Barnett.
*
who do you think they’ll match Schaub up w/next? I really like how he’s progressing and think that he can evolve into a top contender down the road
Schaub might be one or two steps
away from a Gonzaga or Kongo level fighter.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I would think the UFC would book Carwin vs. Rothwell and assuming Carwin beats him and Brock beats Cain, the UFC can then book the Carwin/Cain match that was suppose to happen last year. If Carwin were to beat Cain, they can instantly book him in a rematch with Brock
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
I doubt the UFC would want to risk Cain Losing two in a row
and risk his fight against Carwin being for the title.
Why would it be for the title if Cain loses?
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 9, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
if lesnar wins against cain….the options are going to be very limited.
if cain wins, then they could at least swap around and all fight each other for awhile….
either way, the ufc needs some more legit hw’s and soon cause the pool is gonna dry up quick.
That was a real kick and good for laughs and lashings of the old ultraviolent.
I would like them to start
building up Duffee, I know he got KTFO at 114, but give him some fights, hopefully he puts something together. Also, I am intrigued by McCorkle’s size, maybe if he beats Hunt he gets Yvel or Rothwell next.
Potential for some up and comers, but they have to get some more names in there for these guys to beat for them to be legit contenders.
I told you not to f*ck with me.
add carwin in the mix
i agree with this post..ufc does need a few more heavyweights, but just for now lets say brock does run thru cain and hjs or nelson( i hope he does) now frank beats nog maybe…now carwin isnt hurt..get his rear end fighting someone as well…and the winner of the mir vs nog fight will fight the winner of carwin and tba…that will be brocks next hit.
what about Tuf heavyweights
apparently it wasn’t as full of great up and coming talent as Dana said
Schaub and Mitrione
seem to be the only ones on the way up.
oh yeah, and Madsen, the dullest fighter in the UFC.
They have to be bummed that Jones had no chin, Wren couldn’t get past Madsen and so many of the rest just showed nothing on the show.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Marcus Jones was a dissappointment
Was really pulling for him.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
he had a lot of talent
but a glaring weakness and he’s just too old to overcome a weak chin.
had he started in MMA at 19 we’d have had something! A big man with a flair for judo throws and BJJ submissions. Could’ve been the heavyweight Jake Shields.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I liked Jones too
But he had way more problems than his weak chin, which I thought was actually less of a factor than these two: a) his Mummy-style of stand-up and b) gassing after an initial burst.
Agreed
He could have been a special fighter.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
Yeah
I hated seeing him get hit, but boy was he fun on the ground.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
I'm disappointed Demico Rogers didn't get a shot in the UFC
He had a close fight with Bredan Schaub, looked a lot more promising than guys like Madsen..
yeah i'm bummed about that too
forgot about Rogers. He got kind of a bum deal.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I hope they are trying a Gerald Harris thing with him.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 9, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL I was gonna say something else but I think this is a better way to put it. Rec'd.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 9, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
i honestly believe
other than carwin… cain is the one who can beat brock in the ufc…and this post is right…brock is my fav. HW and i want to see him beat the best…so he can be the best..they need to try to get overeem or rodgers or fedor or wedrum JUST to get some more HW envolved…
Roy Nelson Vs. Brock Lesnar Bad Sell?
I would literally buy the fight tomorrow, even for no title in standard definition. I think Nelson would actually give the big fella some trouble.
i would watch it and buy it
hell i would watch it..roy is a vet. he can give any1 trbl…plus i would like to see if the normal fat guy can do it.
Hey Dana, listen to ME!
Brock, in all likelihood, takes out Cain and JDS/Roy. Carwin gets a rebound fight sometime around UFC 121-122. Not sure who they put him against, but with his hands and KO history, let’s assume he has the edge over most HW contenders.
Then, give Lesnar and Carwin the next season of TUF. It kills a lot of time to build the prospects of the HW division, and provides time to maybe sign Overreem or find a couple up and comers. After that last fight, most people aren’t convinced that fight wouldn’t go the other way 50% of the time. The betting lines will likely be the same for a rematch, if not a bit closer.
These guys have totally polarizing personalities, it would be an awesome season. They might have the experience of Coaches like GSP, Kos, Hughs, Mir or Nogueira, but they could offer an excellent wrestling clinic to some young guys at a time when wrestling is dominating MMA.
Make it happen!
by Axl_Pabst on Jul 9, 2010 11:52 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Brock would NEVER agree to do a season of TUF, and if he did, he’d make Rampage look like Coach of the Decade.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 9, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I was going to say that sounds great, but Brock wouldn’t do it. Hell I don’t know if Carwin would.
Ubereem is here to kill the Finkelstein monster!
by frosty31 on Jul 9, 2010 7:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh he would.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 9, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
You think Lesnar would do it? I would love to see that happen. I guess I was under the impression that with Brocks history with the media and his secluded training camp that he would not be interested. I would love to be wrong. A TUF with Brock and Shane or Brock and Alistar would be awesome.
By the way Black Lesnar, you seem to be fairly in the know. Do you know anything about Overeems (title holder) contract with SF? I’ve been curious if that was something he could get out of if he wanted.
Ubereem is here to kill the Finkelstein monster!
No, I'm talking about Carwin. I agree on Brock.
But Carwin? In a heartbeat would do it. Don’t let his “media blockade” for UFC 116 fool you. He did that for a specific reason.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 9, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
This story should explain to anyone why the rumored Mark Hunt vs Sean McCorkle fight will likely happen. It’s pretty clear over at the UG that this is signed, and we just have to wait for the official announcement from Zuffa.
McCorkle is tall and in good shape, unlike many of his severely overweight SHW opponents. For context, here’s a photo (hope it works) of McCorkle beside 6’3" 250lb Matt Mitrione:
The pic is small, but the size comparison should be obvious.
Zuffa needs more HW fighters. More importantly, Zuffa needs more guys at the upper-end (size-wise) of the HW division to add into the mix with Lesnar/Carwin/Cain/JDS, as this story proves. I think Mark Hunt is being brought in as a sacrificial lamb so that Zuffa can see how McCorkle matches up with the closest thing that exists to a gatekeeper at that size. Hunt can’t be expected to be a top prospect for Zuffa, especially on a 5-fight losing streak.
Not that McCorkle is heralded as a fantastic prospect (given that his size has forced him into SHW matches and he certainly doesn’t have the wrestling/BJJ pedigree that you’d expect in a prospect), but I think Zuffa is looking for more of the “new breed” of huge athletic heavyweights that have to cut to 265 wherever they can find them.
by mma_critic on Jul 9, 2010 12:14 PM EDT reply actions
Hunt is a contractually obligated fight from the PRIDE buy out
and something they should’ve taken care of before he lost 5 straight.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Might be too late to hear your response, but...
Do you know more about this? I’d be genuinely surprised if his PRIDE contract was still in effect. I’m used to seeing details of MMA contracts (on websites, of course, not seeing the actual contracts) that are for “X fights or Y period of time, whichever comes first.” I realize PRIDE may have had odd contracts, but I’d love to hear more about guys who are still bound to Zuffa via PRIDE contracts.
Oh, and this just adds more evidence to my claim/hunch/speculation above that this is really about seeing if McCorkle is a legit prospect for the “I cut to 265” division. It will be curious to see which Mark Hunt shows up, though. Hopefully not the one on a losing streak.
by mma_critic on Jul 9, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana tweeted about it last night
part of the pride deal we contractually owe him fights from our purchase of the company
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jul 9, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you!
You, sir, are a god amongst me!!!
by mma_critic on Jul 9, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably true, but from the sounds of it there was some kind of legal wrangling – maybe Zuffa trying to wriggle out of the contract?
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 9, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
And the fact that Hunt couldn't make 265
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 9, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
funny how dana says he doesnt sign fighters coming off a loss
And then signs one coming off of 5 straight
by PipRocks on Jul 9, 2010 2:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If you were Dana White...
What would you rather have, Mark Hunt on a 5 fight losing skid, or Mark Hunt on a 6, 7, 8, 10 fight losing skid? If Dana indeed owed Hunt a contract, better to bring him in now than to wait and have the possibility of owing him a contract on a 10 fight losing skid.
Seems like alot of the people on other sites I see complaing about Hunt getting a shot in the UFC are newer fans who might not know who Mark Hunt is. They may have seen him on a few Pride replays on spike or FSN, but they likely don’t know about his K-1 career. Besides, look at who his last 5 losses were to. No shame in losing to those 5 if one were to be in the arms of a losing streak like Mark. Plus he put it to a prime Cro Cop and a prime Wanderlei.
If Dana is telling the truth then I hope there are other former PRIDE fighters who Zuffa might owe a contract to.
Anyone have any info on if there might be others the UFC owe a contract to?
The fact that Roy Nelson is fat and slovenly looking is exactly what makes him perfect for a push. Look at what WWE did with Mick Foley in the late 90’s.
I guarantee you, if Roy Nelson gets a title shot, fans will line up behind him in a major way.
And I don’t know about anyone else, but I couldn’t give two $hits about what bitter, jealous boxing promoters think.
UFC already has a Mick Foley....his name is Forrest Griffin
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 9, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Brock won't be GSP
Because Brock could easily lose to Carwin in a rematch that could happen after Dos Santos in Valasquez.
And GSP COULD lose to Fitch in a rematch
This doesn’t predict the future, it depicts the present.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
I think the distinction is that Carwin would be favored or at least close to even in a rematch while GSP would be heavily favored over Fitch in a rematch.
That’s not the point, though. The point is that, as the heavyweight division is currently constructed, Lesnar could run out of interesting, original challengers in as few as two fights.
Maybe Carwin runs through a Rothwell and the winner of Nogueira/Mir and makes a good case. Maybe Mir stamps out Nog and finds a way through Carwin and makes a case. Maybe Nogueira doesn’t look like 34 going on 50 in his next few fights.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Whoever
put this meaningless write up together must be stuck for something to do.
Carwin almost beat Lesnar for crying out loud!So add a rematch with him to the list.
Lesnar is 1-1 with Mir so the rubber match could still appeal.Velasquez is likely to push him clsoe so another probable rematch.
Pretty pointless article,imo.Plenty of opponents.Besides,Lesnar could well lose in his next fight.
You stay classy, Yorkshire
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
I beg to differ
I think it points out the obvious that besides the top four, and possibly the next two (mir/big nog), the rest of the HW division is made up of a bunch of unknown’s (Schaub, Mitrione) and a bunch of never will be’s. There’s definitely a need to find more talent b/c as the columnist writes, if Lesnar gets through the other two (cain & JDS, or Nelson), who else is there for him to fight?? other than a bunch of rematches…….
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