Dave Batista Training With Team Cesar Gracie as Strikeforce Mulls Batista vs Bobby Lashley
by Kid Nate on Jul 8, 2010 1:14 AM EDT
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Sherdog reports:
Former World Wrestling Entertainment star Dave Batista started a two-day training stint with the Cesar Gracie camp Wednesday after Strikeforce helped facilitate the connection with the potential signee and the noted California gym.
Gracie told Sherdog.com that Batista arrived this afternoon and is working technique drills with Nick and Nathan Diaz, Jake Shields and Gilbert Melendez in the Cesar Gracie gym in Lodi, Calif.
"We'll see how it goes," Gracie said. "If he wants to fight, we'll get him going."
Strikeforce is negotiating with the multi-time Wrestlemania headliner to try his hand in MMA. A long-time fan of the sport, who has reportedly trained at the Affliction training facility in Los Angeles, Batista began talks with Strikeforce last month after ending a lucrative eight-year run with the WWE. Batista said in interviews that he had become disillusioned with the industry and has pursued film acting.
Scott Coker told Loretta Hunt earlier this week he's already got some ideas for the 41 year old combat sports virgin:
Coker said Batista's star power, and specifically his ability to draw on an equally strong demographic of viewers outside of MMA, is an obvious selling point for the would-be fighter.
When asked if former WWE champion and decorated college wrestler Bobby Lashley was under consideration as a potential opponent for Batista, Coker acknowledged that the bout had some cache.
"That would just be a fun fight to watch," said Coker.
Personally I'm all for it. Bobby Lashley is already a very marginal MMA prospect who's developing very slowly and has shown no interest in facing other prospects like Shane Del Rosario. Why not pull in the pro wrestling audience to see a freak show? If they put it on the same card as some quality MMA we're likely to get some converts.
Despite Brock Lesnar's legitimate credentials as a NCAA wrestling champ, I think many of the fans who followed him from the WWE to the UFC think he learned how to fight from Vince McMahon. Those fans are highly likely to tune in to see Batista try his luck.
With Dana White happily promoting James Toney vs Randy Coture as a "freak show", I don't see any reason why Strikeforce shouldn't try it. As long as Batista gets the thumbs up from Cesar Gracie and passes muster with the relevant athletic commissions, that is.
After all, Tim Sylvia vs Mariusz Pudzianowski ended up anchoring a very entertaining card featuring some high caliber MMA. And many of the most legendary bouts of the PRIDE era occurred on cards headlined by utter freak shows featuring the likes of Bob Sapp, Dos Caras Jr. and Bobby Olegun.
There's a place for spectacle in this sport. Face it.
UPDATE with Cesar Gracie's comments after working out with Batista in the full entry.
Gracie talks with Loretta Hunt:
Gracie said that his initial read of the 41-year-old pro wrestler was that he is a "natural athlete."
"He's got a lot to learn but his strength alone is impressive," Gracie told Sherdog.com Wednesday evening. "Obviously he's a beginner at jiu-jitsu but we can take a guy like that that's already a strong athlete like that and teach him what to not get caught in."
Gracie said Batista, who grew up in Washington D.C., wrestled in high school and has some background in traditional martial arts standup fighting.
"He's a pretty good kicker," said Gracie. "He hits very hard."
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Do they send like every wannabe to that gym? I always see the Diaz bros posing with these guys.
"Jeremy Shane.. Easily the best writer on BE with initials J.S.!" - mmarazorback
That was my first thought too
Cesar Gracie – where freakshows go to train. Or watch other people train, in Jose Canseco’s case.
Get rid of the ramp!
by ihateemo on Jul 8, 2010 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Speaking of Canseco...
He’s boxing at a minor league baseball game in my town (Little Rock, AR) this weekend…
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
My first thought was.......
How the hell is Nick Diaz the same height as Batista. I always thought Batista was like Lesnar size.
www.facebook.com/djpullout
www.twitter.com/djpullout
www.myspace.com/djpullout
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AIM = djpullout
info@djpullout.com
*Sigh*
TBA gets hosed again. He’s healthy, readily available, and gets passed over time and time again.
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
by SSreporters on Jul 8, 2010 1:19 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah. He needs to get Pavia as a manager. Seems like he always gets thrown off the card at the very last instant.
I firmly believe that TBA is Strikeforce`s biggest draw at the moment. Give him a chance, Coker!
"In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane." -Oscar Wilde
"I would never die for my beliefs, because I might be wrong." -Bertrand Russell
by BlueberryMuffin on Jul 8, 2010 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't agree with Kid Nate often but...
I agree here. Coker should definately book Batista vs Lashley. I dont care what anyone says, we all like a good freak show now and then. It’s like a bad car wreck, you dont want to look but you know you will. Ill go on record right now saying Batista will win the fight, should it ever happen.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 8, 2010 1:23 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
The fight can get booked but will never happen.
Either Lashley will turn it down or one of them will get injured. Lashley carries too much muscle for his frame and gets hurt while Batista also has a history of injuries. If by some miracle it does happen… I’ll totally fucking watch it.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jul 8, 2010 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions
At least someone else is honest enough to admit they would watch it. Wonder if there will be betting odds on who gasses first.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 8, 2010 1:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm a big fan of freakshows if good fights are around it.
I was pissed at SF Evolution for having Lashley and Herschel on the same card without anything great on it. You put a freak show on the same card as Jacare, Hendo, King Mo, and Cung Le and I’ll be supporting it as best I can.
The funny thing is, you and I are more closely tied to MMA than most commenters here and also take freak shows much less seriously than they do. Not sure what to derive from that, but it’s interesting.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jul 8, 2010 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup
“The funny thing is, you and I are more closely tied to MMA than most commenters here and also take freak shows much less seriously than they do. Not sure what to derive from that, but it’s interesting.”
I know what you mean, but hey, what do we know anyways.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 8, 2010 1:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Fuck if I know...
but it’s interesting to note. The core hates freak shows while those on the inside and casuals are both very accepting of them… would be tough for a marketing department to balance.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jul 8, 2010 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, until we can figure it out...
“Just keep swimming, just keep swimming!”
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 8, 2010 2:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Interesting fact, but every time someone does a pro wrestling related article look how many comments it gets. And yet no one thinks the promoter should market towards the pro wrester fans.
I really don`t get the animosity towards wrassling that is often on display. I have a ton of fond childhood-memories concerning Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, Earthquake, Ravishing Rick Rude and so forth.
I could probably still watch one of those things were a new fighter enters the cage every minute and find it fairly enjoyable (Was it Royal Rumble??).
One thing though, I thought Batista was bigger than that. Shields almost looks his size…
"In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane." -Oscar Wilde
"I would never die for my beliefs, because I might be wrong." -Bertrand Russell
by BlueberryMuffin on Jul 8, 2010 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I have no interest in Batista, because up until three weeks ago I had no clue who he was. Lashley I’ll watch because he has an interesting wrestling background, not because he was in the WWE (again, never saw him in it).
That being said, you put this bout on the same card as Fedor vs Werdum and Overeem vs Bigfoot and you have an amazing card. A gimmic fight to draw a massive audience ( and let no one fool themselves this fight would be bigger than anything outside of Brock in all of mma) and two top heavyweight bouts. I don’t know how Strikeforce could afford all of them on CBS, but if they could I’d say go for it.
Many of us run from the truth, but the truth is a huge portion of the fanbase are pro wrestling marks. If Strikeforce wants to stay on CBS they may have to embrace it.
Like I said below..,
Throw Gina on the card too. Big time ratings.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 8, 2010 1:46 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If we added Gina we’d probably have to lose either Fedor or Overeem because of budget. Maybe do a second night with Gina and Walker vs Kimbo. Back to back home runs.
Good point about the budget...
It’s just been far too long since I’ve seen Gina weigh-in, err…I mean fight.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 8, 2010 2:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bautista was never a real big draw in pro wrestling.
Neither was Lashley. It would not be bigger than anything outside of Brock in all of MMA. That is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read on all of Bloody Elbow.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
He was a huge draw in pro wrestling.
Lashley wasn’t, but Bautista was for sure.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
No he wasn't.
How was he a big draw? Did the WWE do big time ratings because of him? After he beat Triple H for the title at WrestleMania they moved him to Smackdown. That’s how small time he was. PPV buyrates for wrestling these days are a joke.
When Brock was there, at least initially, they were still doing pretty good.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Guess I saw it differently than you.
Looked pretty big to me.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Based on how he looked pretty big to me?
I didn’t follow wrestling very much at all but I knew him over many people, I saw him in a lot of commercials. Looked like a big draw to me. I don’t know, dude.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
I follow it and I promise you
he isn’t a very big draw.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
i read a thing awhile back that listed the top 5 power guys in WWE
Triple H and Undertaker top 2
Shawn Michaels, Batista, and John Cena followed
these were the “it” men the big boys back stage and in the eyes of the company.
Id have to say Bautista was a rather large draw, his annual salary was one of the highest at just over a million, and one of a dozen or so with “weekly first class tickets, ground travel, and room” paid for.
you cant have all your big fish in one pond, otherwise SmackDown would have drowned by now.
Undertaker and Baustista had smackdown and Triple H, Shawn, orton had RAW
Daniel Worby is Mania's Resident Sissy Boy
by SouthCaliStunNa on Jul 8, 2010 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok.
Cyber Sunday 2008- Batista beats Jericho for the World Heavyweight Title – PPV Buys – 153,000
Backlash 2009 – Batista main event match for Title – PPV Buys – 180,000
Judgement Day 2009 – Batista co-main title match – PPV Buys – 228,000
Extreme Rules 2009 – Batista co-main title match – PPV Buys – 213,000
Bragging Rights 2009 – Batista co-main title match – PPV Buys – 181,000
Tell me again how this guy is such a big draw?
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
You really ought to add more context to this argument. What is the baseline PPV numbers for a non- Wrestlemania WWE event?
Here are some numbers for you.
2007 Average PPV Buys including WrestleMania – 342,357
2007 Average PPV Buys without WrestleMania – 276,384
2008 Average PPV Buys including WrestleMania – 331,500
2008 Average PPV Buys without WrestleMania – 276,230
2009 Average PPV Buys including WrestleMania – 300, 928
2009 Average PPV Buys without WrestleMania – 250,230
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
d@mn man
you are on top of your shit with your wrestling info
here’s the thing batista is VERY well known his name alone carries drawing power whether he sold alot of ppv’s for the wwe or not is not really at issue here.
sf won’t be selling ppv’s on batista’s name sf will be offering a freakshow fight probably on showtime that will appeal not only to wrestling fans who may or may not occasionally drop however much a wwe ppv is these days but also to mma fans like myself who are just tuning in to watch a fight.
strikeforce needs numbers and let no one be fooled if the numbers are right ANY promotion will put on a “freashow fight”
don’t be surprised if batista has above average striking
and don’t be surprised if he makes it a fun fight to watch
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 8, 2010 7:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I don`t really think being a draw PPV in Wrestling, means it`ll transfer to MMA and vice versa.
I mean, Batista LOOKS like a mean dude that can fight. Thus meaning I may wanna see him against Lashley (Can he fight? Dunno. )
"In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane." -Oscar Wilde
"I would never die for my beliefs, because I might be wrong." -Bertrand Russell
by BlueberryMuffin on Jul 8, 2010 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice research
I’ll add my 2 cents..
While Batista may not be the most major draw of all time, he was one of the bigger draws in WWE while he was active.
Seems like WWE has been desparate for a true breakout star for the last while… They can cram as much Cena on the program, yet a good portion of people hate the guy.
WWE has really stepped back into the pg14 area as well, which could attribute to some of the PPV numbers.
I don’t think its accurate to state that Batista isn’t a draw, since he was one of the biggest stars on the show(s).
you added in wrestlemania, the biggest event WWE puts on.
what are the number for other PPV in the same year, NOT headlined by Batista? and NOT including wrestlemania (for obvious reasons).
If he wasnt a draw i doubt hed be one of the TOP PAID guys with ALL expenses paid.
i like talking wrasslin with you btw, you know your shit~
Daniel Worby is Mania's Resident Sissy Boy
by SouthCaliStunNa on Jul 8, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
If Kimbo can draw bigger ratings than anyone in all of mma, what do you think this pro wrestling fans wet dream is going to do? This is not ppv, this network tv. This is the type of fight that will draw even the least curious. Throw in their top four HWs and you have a night for the more serious MMA fans. I predict record breaker.
The UFC has never run a card on network TV
so there is nothing to compare it to. At least not on network. We know Kimbo couldn’t draw shit on PPV.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
But they’ve done it on Spike so we can infer who draws and Kimbo has drawn more eyes to his fight on TUF than even Rampage or Couture did on Spike.
It’s a simple fact, real casuals might not pay for a ppv but they’ll watch the gimmick fights. Now if UFC ran Couture vs Toney on network, it would do huge. Machida vs Rua, I don’t think does nearly as much. Maybe it beats Elite, but not by huge margins.
Kimbo did 5 million for his fight on Spike.
Tito vs Shamrock did like 5.7 million. The TUF 10 Finale did a 2.4 rating while Ortiz vs Shamrock did a 3.1
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Uhh, Shamrock was also a pro wrestling star which probably played a big part in why it drew.
Also, Kimbo’s fight with Roy Nelson on episode 3 of the Ultimate Fighter peaked at 6.1 mil and averaged 5.1 mil. Including that fight, Kimbo has 3 of the top four most watched mma fights in North American.
My main point is that Bautista just isn't a draw anywhere near what people will give him credit for.
Just because Lesnar did it doesn’t mean another big pro wrestler will. I’m saying that Bautista will be much like Lashley and he won’t draw many eyes.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
aside from WWE
Brock had the draw of the fact people realized he had a legitimate background as one of the best Amateur wrestlers.
i would have loved to have seen Kurt Angle transition into MMA early on. That dude brings a level of talent, skill, athleticism, heart, and intensity that not many can even fathom..
Daniel Worby is Mania's Resident Sissy Boy
by SouthCaliStunNa on Jul 8, 2010 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions
You forgot...
Intelligence and Integrity. It’s true.
Keep sleepin' on me...
by Neo X on Jul 8, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LMAO. the 3 I's.
im serious tho, he is one amazing athlete.
dont be fooled
Daniel Worby is Mania's Resident Sissy Boy
by SouthCaliStunNa on Jul 8, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Batista was more recently on WWE TV than Lesnar
Lesnar was 4 years removed, Batista would be less than 6 months.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 8, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I have so little interest in HW compared to other divisions
that I’ve very tolerant of freak shows as marketing. There are maybe eight HWs I’m interested in watching fight once I forget my PRIDE fanboyism (Cain, Carwin, JDS, Brock, Alistair, Fedor, Werdum) so I can handle irrelevant fun in freak shows rather than decent but meaningless matchups (Stout vs. Stephens).
The difference is that freak shows bring solid ratings to other good fighters while irrelevant fun fights at other weights entertain those who are already watching. I’m oversimplifying, but you see my point, no?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jul 8, 2010 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but I was thinking a five fight card. The four big name HWs to set up for a future showdown and get the serious mma fans excited, Batista vs Lashley to draw a crowd, and then maybe the 145 women tournament finalist and Billy Evangelista vs Lyle Beerbohm or Woodley vs Galvao for some great newcomers.
Or something like that.
Agreed.
I think freakshows are necessary for SF, and should be used to anchor good competitive matchups. I hated SF Miami (accidentally said Evolution, which was a sick card), because it was squash matches mixed with freaks. Lawler vs. Manhoef was the only good fight on there. If you can get Hendo vs. Mousasi, Jacare vs. anybody good, and Diaz vs. Hieron on a card with Herschel vs. Kimbo and Batista vs. Lashley… I might call that card of the year. Perfect amount of relevant talent and spectacle to hook me, casuals, and hardcores in.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jul 8, 2010 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Lashley should smash Batista and it may be a freak show
but I would gladly watch it.
I guess I am a different case though because I watch every Strikeforce event. I wonder how many WWE fans would actually tune in to see it though. Based on how much promo Strikeforce did for Werdum / Fedor would anyone even know this fight was happeneing?
i love how mma production and wwe production are pretty much the exactly the same… its awesome.
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com and MMAFighting.com, mma enthusiast
by ekc on Jul 8, 2010 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions
"With Dana White happily promoting James Toney vs Randy Coture as a "freak show", I don't see any reason why Strikeforce shouldn't try it"
There’s a big difference between James Toney and Dave Bautista. Toney actually has a background in combat sports. Bautista is in his 40’s and is only a year or so removed from taking chair shots to the head. I don’t think you can even compare the two other than saying that they are indeed freakshow fights, no matter who you put up against either of them.
It just doesn't make sense
He’s too old, too inexperienced, and has too many chemicals propping up that frame for him t ever have any career in MMA.
I feel like these guys think that just because they can charismatically perform in front of an audience, that they could never have any kind of MMA jitters. Lashley always looks “dear in the headlights” nervous.
On the other hand I dont blame them because WWE is slavery
He may not have any experience in combat sports, but I'm sure his body feels like he's had 10 years in MMA.
I don’t see any good that can come from this, unless people are looking for a couple of ex-wrassler’s who will gas in the first minute of the first round.
I’m sure there are more than a few fans out there who would piss their pants at a chance to see two of there hero’s going at it in a new sport.
by banned before on Jul 8, 2010 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
There's a difference between Couture/Toney, which is a bit of a freakshow
But still has the merit of Couture being an MMA legend who isn’t totally shot, and Toney, who was a great boxer in his prime, and boxing is a form of martial arts. They’re both clearly past it but they’ve accumulated their combat skills over long periods of time.
Lashley is just getting into MMA and has been given Bob Sapp and Wes Sims as his “opponents”, while Batista is in his 40s and has no actual wrestling background like Brock Lesnar does.
I’m just not feeling it.
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
Bautista wasn't much of a draw in the WWE.
And he doesn’t have even a fraction of the charisma that Brock Lesnar has. Not sure there would be much of a crossover. Especially not with the reputation that Strikeforce has.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
He was one of the biggest draws during his run...
It’s all relative, of course; Lesnar was big during a bigger boom period for pro wrestling. But it’s worth noting that Batista got his first main event push as a result of fan demand: fans clamored for his face turn out of Evolution months before any such turn was planned, and based solely on that fan heat he got fast-tracked into his Royal Rumble win (over Cena) and the Wrestlemania match against HHH. That’s more than can be said of either Lesnar (who was forced as ‘The Next Big Thing’ clean out of OVW) and Lashley (who was forced as “The Next Big Lesnar,” and who was never a draw in the WWE despite numerous attempts to push him).
Also, to say that Batista doesn’t have a fraction of the charisma that Lesnar has is preposterous. They were both equally useless on the stick, though I would definitively say that Batista was better. His program with Rey was driven entirely by strength of personality. Lesnar NEVER had an angle like that, and in fact had to use Heyman as a mouthpiece for much of his career because he was so lousy on the mic. Let’s not let recent events color our memories here: Lesnar is ten times the personality in the UFC than he was in the WWE.
Charisma doesn't just equal how good of a talker someone is.
It encompasses someones ability to draw people into them. Lesnar has that more than anyone, obviously, in MMA. Bautista had that for a bit but it wore off fast. Yeah, he got a big push but only after they failed with pushing Randy Orton.
Heyman was the mouthpiece for Brock in the beginning but by the end Lesnar was holding up really well on the mic.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Does Batista have any prior combat training?
I am aware of Lesnar’s past, and Lashley’s…but does he have something besides juice to bring to the table?
"Jeremy Shane.. Easily the best writer on BE with initials J.S.!" - mmarazorback
I believe he just trained TKD.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 8, 2010 1:27 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Seeing as how I won’t watch any fight with Dave Bautista or Bobby Lashley, I guess none of this really matters much to me. I do have a problem with the comparison’s between the Randy/Toney match and anything SF does with Bautista or Lashley. Lashley might have some experience, but it’s not enough to get me interested in any match-up they could make.
James Toney vs Randy Couture and Batista vs Bobby Lashley aren’t even comparable man. The skill level in one is off the charts when compared to the other. Seriously. Lashely/Batista makes Toney/Couture look like GSP vs Anderson Silva.
I really hate this. Here goes Strikeforce undermining the integrity of the sport for cheap, fading attention. I don’t see any positive to this whatsoever.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis
The only potential positive is that the casual viewer tuning in out of curiosity sees something on the under-card that makes them into at least a casual fan who will tune in next time, if not a bigger fan who might go back and watch previous shows, and learn who the fighters are.
Thats why its important for Strikeforce to make sure that a show that features Lashley-Batista has a great under-card. Unfortunately, this is Strikeforce and the quality of their under-cards has always left something to be desired in my opinion.
by Luke Nicholson on Jul 8, 2010 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't buy that
Non-fans will tune in for the freak show, and that’s that. That’s all they’ll pay attention to, remember, or even watch. The number of new, real fans created will be absolutely marginal (the current Japanese scene tells us this), especially in comparison to the number of new fans the UFC creates while largely keeping intact the integrity of the sport.
This is just a desperate grasp for superficial headlines by a poorly run organization. As far as MMA is concerned, nothing good will come of this.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis
Super boring?
He’d have him on his back the whole time, sure. On his way to a first round TKO stoppage via GnP.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
this is so awesome!
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com and MMAFighting.com, mma enthusiast
How is having a 41 year old ex-wrassler with ZERO fight experience come into MMA awesome?
by banned before on Jul 8, 2010 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I wasn’t sure about this but when you capitalized “ZERO” it drove your point home for me.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
You really are the best kind of person. I'm sure you are told that everyday tho...
by banned before on Jul 8, 2010 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
I laughed
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 8, 2010 1:41 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
because this is sports entertainment and this is going to fun to watch.
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com and MMAFighting.com, mma enthusiast
by ekc on Jul 8, 2010 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
sports entertainment?
BS. That’s pro wrestling bud. This iscompetitive sports, like boxing or football. Please, realize the distinction.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis
nope
its both spectacle and sport pal. see: Pride, Strikeforce, Kimbo Slice, etc.
I love me a good freak show. Granted, I’d rather watch another Machida vs Shogun battle over Lashley/Batista, but i’d be super-psyched if they were both on the card.
by Body Triangle on Jul 8, 2010 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course it could be and has been sports entertainment
Anything could be. Doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. Pride died, the XFL was pathetic, Strikeforce sucks, and pro wrestling is minor and has no respect. That’s what “sports entertainment” gets you. Meshing MMA with it is a HORRIBLE idea. If you do it, MMA will never truly be mainstream. It will never truly be a real “sport” in North America and both the fighters and fans will suffer for it.
It’s a stupid idea no matter how much you like silly freakshows for whatever reason.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis
The problems with Batista are age, injuries, and the fact he’s never competed in any combat sport in his life. He doesn’t even have a high school amateur wrestling background. He’s likely torn his triceps, his biceps, his lats, his groins, his hamstrings, and thats not even mentioning the number of times his knees and elbows have likely been scoped.
As far as freak show main events go, if you do it fine, but you better find some quality prospects to put on the under-card, and the prelims because at forty years old, he’s not someone you can build around for the future.
by Luke Nicholson on Jul 8, 2010 1:35 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I highly doubt this would be the main event. Probably the opening bout. If they stick Hershel, Gina and Fedor on this card too it could do pretty well ratings wise
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 8, 2010 1:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not likely, if you’re Strikeforce and you’ve only got a very limited number of draws you’re not wasting them all on one card, especially when you have a match in Batista-Lashley that will draw well without those other names.
by Luke Nicholson on Jul 8, 2010 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Not only do they have a limited number of draws...
Id say they have a limited number of shows left too. They don’t put big shows on very often. They would still have Diaz, Miller, Hendo, King Mo, Babalu, Cyborg, Melendez, Mousassi, Lawler and Cung Le. I think they could pull that mega card off, maybe even as a ppv. I would buy it.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 8, 2010 1:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah. That might be true. I think Cung Le is more interested in movies at this point in his life.
I’d definitely feature King Mo on a Lashley-Batista billing because he’s one of the few guys they have with the potential to be a serious draw, if enough people tuned in and saw him win impressively. Not to mention, he’s already the SF Light Heavyweight champ.
by Luke Nicholson on Jul 8, 2010 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Im pretty sure Le has to fight Smith in a rubber match still. It was in the last contract that if Smith lost he gets the rubber match. I could see that being Le’s last fight. Then as you said, return to doing bad movies.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 8, 2010 2:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I never heard that, but i would not be suprised after the beat down he got.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 8, 2010 2:24 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Correction, according to this story on Sherdog.com, Batista did some wrestling and has some background in traditional martial arts stand up fighting.
I still don’t see that being enough for him to make the kind of transition that Lesnar made.
by Luke Nicholson on Jul 8, 2010 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions
It's all for show Dude.
Just like John Morrison’s love for Parkor and Eve’s love for BJJ (hint: This is a veiled insult from Vince)
Just another way for Soprts Entertainers to fake legit.
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
Eve dates a Gracie
And is actually training. Batista does some kind of Phillipino martial art…theres video of him doing knife training or something online.
Batista vs Lashley; winner gets Minowaman
Make it happen Coker
by Hirasawa Yui on Jul 8, 2010 1:42 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Nick looks like he’s ready to beat some one down. Shields looks like he just got done finishing a blue jeans photo shoot.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 8, 2010 2:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
ha!
I just noticed shields’ pose/outfit after you mentioned it. hahaha.
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 8, 2010 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Too funny.
Canseco was probably busy doing one of his “Spend a day with Jose” deals. Otherwise, im sure he would’ve been in there showing Batista the ropes.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 8, 2010 2:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nick and Nate
Apparently can’t stand too close to each other when taking pictures (based on this one and the one up top). I’m guessing that if they get too close, criticality is reached and they start brawling.
They’re the MMA equivalent of the demon core.
Why doesn’t Strikeforce sign Daniel Puder?
"I have to carry out another fine moment before I die."
-Tatsuya Kawajiri-
lol
Daniel Worby is Mania's Resident Sissy Boy
by SouthCaliStunNa on Jul 8, 2010 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I think WWE wrestling is as legit a background
as youtube bum fights, no? The Lesnar comparison is completely absurd. I think the Kimbo comparison is entirely apt, though.
This is stupid.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
by Sam Cupitt on Jul 8, 2010 2:39 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Since every one at Gracie wants to go to the UFC I think this Batista character should go there as well. Lashley will probably never fight again and SF really doesn’t need the sh!t and abuse they would get for doing a fight with this guy. I can just picture the Kid Nate attack piece already. Yes I know he penned this one.
Take the fat bank you would pay these guys and hire some one to handle PR then spend the rest promoting and hanging onto your upcoming talent. If they did this fight they would put it on the upcoming PPV and I just don’t think it would do good numbers there. It might do good numbers on CBS but I don’t think they are getting back on CBS.
HTML5 + WebM now! Death to Flash!!!
Just saying
With Dana White happily promoting James Toney vs Randy Coture as a “freak show”, I don’t see any reason why Strikeforce shouldn’t try it.
Former HW boxing champion vs Former LHW/HW UFC champion is the same as a Former Pro wrestling champion vs former Pro wrestling champion?
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Bodybuilder vs. NAIA Wrestling champ
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
I’d quite like to see Batista vs lashley because despite his lack of any real combat sports training, its nice to see he actually wants to be an MMA fighter, a complete contrast to Lashley who is pretty much a fraud at this point
"Ten more seconds is all I ever ask. That's the good thing I learned about being KO'd twice. You don't see it coming -it's like death- you don't plan for it so don't wait for it. So many people are afraid of getting Ko'd that their hands stay home, but not me. I got to go out there and shoot the lights out and fall down" Jens Pulver
what's the details on his training at the affliction training facility
how long has he reportedly trained there because this is the first thing i’ve heard about it.
i’m all for it.
i love watching serious mixed martial arts nothing better than two technical geniuses
but at the same time a fight is a fight
and since the beginning of the sports freakshow fights have had their place in it
i’ll probably tune in
and i’ll probably enjoy watching it
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 8, 2010 6:37 AM EDT reply actions
Another thing on my mind about Lashley’s wrestling. I’m not 100% sure, but didn’t he wrestle at like 178lbs or something like that? Would the fact that he’s a big HW now not mess about with that a little? Its not something I know much about, but would that not have an impact on how his wrestling is now? So perhaps the skill difference between them is being a little overstated?
"Ten more seconds is all I ever ask. That's the good thing I learned about being KO'd twice. You don't see it coming -it's like death- you don't plan for it so don't wait for it. So many people are afraid of getting Ko'd that their hands stay home, but not me. I got to go out there and shoot the lights out and fall down" Jens Pulver
For me the main benefit of this is we get to stop treating Lashley as some serious prospect type fighter. If he’s not going to fight a real prospect or someone that might actually help build his career, he might as well fight someone that might be a draw. And hell, maybe Batista will be so bad that Lashley will actually be able to work on his stand up and there can be some real benefit also.
I like it. Everyone thinks SF is a joke anyway so might as well. I never followed Batista in WWE so I don’t know if he was a big star or anything. I was really not into in anymore when he came on the scene. He just looked like some big dude. Also, I’d rather see Batista than Walker.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
I will say Im not too big on the idea of them putting Lashley and Batista against each other. Build them up separately. Then down the line put them against each other.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
Ehum. “Building up” means that you would actually need to find someone that Batista could beat… You wanna build Batista by having him fight Canseco? Or maybe Kim Couture? I say let him have Lashley NOW. I`ll watch it.
"In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane." -Oscar Wilde
"I would never die for my beliefs, because I might be wrong." -Bertrand Russell
by BlueberryMuffin on Jul 8, 2010 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea, I don’t think building up batista would work. He has to fight on a main card, and I don’t know how many people would tolerate a fight like that being on a main card. If you don’t find an absolute tomato can, you run the risk of him losing, and I’m not sure he will come back from a loss. Just do it and be done with it.
Even a tomato can would be legit for an 0-0 guy. We’ll see I guess.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 8, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
it would be legit, but it would have to be someone worse than Nagy, and we see how well that went over with the internet fans.
that I think is where SF needs to be careful. They are making some moves that have a small chance of getting them over with the casual fans, but if this whole experiment fails, and they need to go back to a regional promotion, they might piss off too many of the people that made them a successful regional promotion.
Zuffa can afford to tell us to fuck off, I don’t know if SF can.
Kid Nate! This Could Also Just Be A Ploy.
Big Dave is going along with this as a way to get Vince MacMahon to write him up a larger paycheck. As soon as Dave gets that, I wouldn’t be surprised if he ditched hard and fast.
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
I can see the appeal of former WWE guys myself being a lifelong pro wrestling fan but Dave Batista isn’t the draw people seem to think he is. He’s old and broken down and going to be very expensive to book and just isn’t a huge draw (he was a perpetual heel booked against more popular guys in the WWE). At best you get one or two fights (if he can even make it through serious training without injury) before it all just becomes a joke. At least Kimbo was able to draw over time, Dave Batista like Hershal Walker is a one shot deal with no future at all in the sport.
We aren’t talking about Kurt Angle here, Dave is a former body builder who wasn’t even pushed as having a “fake” real fighting backround in the WWE, even WWE fans know who can really fight and who is just pushed for being a giant sized human being. Don’t discount the intelligence of those fans, they know the difference and just because they will watch a guy wrestle doesn’t mean they want to watch him in a real fight too. Any cross over interest would be the viewers who are crossed over anyway.
Not to mention Lack of dedication
If the CG camp are training him, they’re going to be beating the shit out of him just to get him to learn even the basics.
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
He left the WWE to make movies in Hollywood, MMA isn’t his chosen career path it’s just something he is interested in trying. He’s in it as a hobby at best.
That's great.
They’re still going to beat the shit out of him to train.
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
I put this in the other post with this picture, but let me as here as well:
Wait, I’m confused.
I’m not a wrestling fan, so I don’t know this guy from Adam, but all the early reporting was talking about how he was 6’4"-6’5" and 290lbs. That guy looks to be 6’2" and 220lbs. at the most. What’s the deal?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
MacMahon likes to exaggerate height and weight
It’s something he does as a way to sell wrestlers. The more larger then life, the more he can sell them on image alone.
It doesn’t work anymore, but it’s habit for Vince.
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
Height numbers from professional wrestling are definitely dubious. As for weight, whatever he was billed at was definitely an inflated number, but he’s also lost a lot of weight since stopping WWE’s vaunted training regimen.
So where do we get real numbers?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
If there is a professional wrestler that would be a successful MMA fighter...
It would be Shelton Benjamin. That dude has some pretty good credentials and is very athletic……
Nick Diaz: Hey bra’, um, um, we got ‘dis like Pro Wrestler bullshit guy here and we are takin’ Twit Pics.
Shields: Alright, I’ll get down there as soon as I can, I’m just in jeans, sandals and a t-shirt though.
Nick Diaz: Yo’ fucker, it don’t matter, um, um, just take off your shirt and flippy flops and Nate will spritz you with some water, no one will know the difference.
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