Was Shane Carwin Robbed of a Win Over Brock Lesnar at UFC 116?
by Nate Wilcox on Jul 7, 2010 4:10 PM EDT
in MMA News
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That's the view of some of Kevin Iole's readers. Here's one I thought had an interesting angle:
I truly believe Carwin was robbed of the victory. How many times beforehand have the referees stopped fights when someone turtles up in the corner of the cage for more than 10 seconds? Lesnar was down for the entire last half of the first round, getting beaten on, and most of that time his "intelligent defense" was the fetal position. I know the UFC needs a big name. UFC president Dana White can talk all he wants about how no one wants Fedor Emelianenko. However, the UFC's top two heavyweights, Lesnar and Carwin, with Velasquez being an exception, are extremely one-dimensional fighters whose main ability is to be big at their opponents. White does a lot of trash talk about how he has the best people but when it comes to an incredibly lax non-call by the ref to prove how excellent one of them is, it does not bode well for the sport. If all it takes to win in the UFC and get them to ignore their own rules is a name, then it is a dark day for MMA in the United States.
Initially Carwin seemed to agree, per this text sent to MMA Junkie:
"I felt Brock go out a few times," he today told MMAjunkie.com via text message. "But it is the ref's job to call the fight, and mine is to finish the fight."
But now that he's had time to reflect, Shane Carwin himself has a different take, speaking to Mike Chiappetta:
Carwin says that he did feel Lesnar wilt at times from his hard ground and pound strikes from the top, but that after Lesnar was warned about protecting himself and moving, he didn't put him away.
"I put all my eggs into that basket of finishing Brock," he said. "Josh was on top of it, he told him to improve a couple times. When you hear that and you're the top guy, it makes you want to speed things up and finish the guy that much quicker.
"The first time Josh was getting ready to call it, I thought I was real close, but after that I didn't reach that point with him again," he continued. "As a ref, I thought he did a great job. How could I have any qualms since Brock was able to come back and beat me? It would have been a different story if Brock would have taken a bunch more unnecessary punishment and got messed up from it."
Personally I think Carwin is taking the only healthy attitude he possibly can. There's nothing he can do to change the call and the subsequent events and making like Phil Baroni after UFC 45 won't help him or anyone else.
Luke Thomas was effusive in his praise of Rosenthal:
But this was a first-rate job by the referee of recognizing while Lesnar may have been dragged to the precipice, he never crossed the threshold.
When the stakes are high and the decision important, referees are allowed (and should be expected) to make sure their stoppage leaves no unanswered questions. Rosenthal exercised that freedom in a critical moment of sporting relevancy.
And Rosenthal's call was fairly well vindicated by Lesnar's come back win. However, I think it's also pretty obvious that the biggest star of the sport got a little bit of extra leeway that wouldn't have been extended to your average UFC preliminary fighter.
That's the way of the world -- "to he that hath, shall be given."
Brock Lesnar got rushed to a title shot. He gets extra time to recover when he's hurt. He wasn't required to do a Primetime special to build the fight. The guy is special and gets treated as such. Get used to it UFC fans.
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Again, it’s a shame when reffing issues are so bad that we as fans are expecting refs to do the wrong thing and get upset when they don’t continue to do the wrong things.
by JeremyShane on Jul 7, 2010 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 22 recs
I agree.
Lesnar was never clearly out of the fight. He was in a bad spot, but barring a tap, the guys should gave to be finished. Lesnar was not terribly active, but a lot of the strikes were hitting his arms (aka blocked) why move? Lesnar got up on his own showing no ill effects, everything seems good to me.
I hope this changes the stoppages for more fights.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 7, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The very minute that Lesnar saw an opening he popped right up from the ground
and got back to his feet. He did not take his time or need helping getting back up.
I agree.
Everybody hates early stoppages. They are a waste of everybody’s time.
I was cheering for Carwin to finish him, but I couldn’t pin point a momment where I would have called the fight myself. That said I knew it was getting close and terrible reffing is always in the back of my mind.
by truck on Jul 7, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I also agree
I have watched the fight a few times and the more you watch it the more you can see that Carwin was throwing punches that were not doing dramatic damage. Lesnar’s arms blocked most of his shots.
I don’t think Lesnar was given any more of a chance than Frank Mir was in his fight with Carwin and this is being blown out of proportion because he had the ability to withstand Carwin’s onslaught and mount the 2nd round comeback.
Yes
And it’s sad that a certain writer on this site, which I had a lot of respect for, keeps attacking Lesnar, and bringing up issues that are really non-issue.
Kid, Brock was never close to being stopped. You are using the same lines used by Fedor fans on YouTube. Oh brock got his title shot early. Oh. Brock didn’t get stopped because he is Brock. I really don’t know what to say. It’s really sad. Have you had one positive thing to say without bringing all this negative stuff?
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I'm a big Brock fan
But there’s no denying he’s gotten opportunities faster than anyone else entering UFC.
I’d say it was a wise business decision. Dana White didn’t have to introduce Brock Lesnar to his audience, almost all UFC fans already knew who he was. Not many UFC fighters have had a shot at a UFC title when they’ve had fewer than 5 MMA fights.
That said, I’m not sure what relevance those facts have to the discussion about whether this particular fight should have been stopped.
"Overdrive the sound and make it sound pretty rude." - Jimmy Page
That's my point.
It’s like saying why forrest griffin or bonnars keep getting fight or why Liddell continues fighting big names after getting KOd. Brock is THE BIGGEST name in MMA. He may not be the best. But when he fights, people watch. With all that said, we don’t call Shane lucky when his eyes went to the back of his head when Gonzaga hit him. Brock got hurt. That’s different than being knocked out or unable to defend. This discussion is a waste of time either way. It’s done. Shane will be back. Brock will have a tough fight with Kane, I mean Cain.
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
where did I attack Lesnar?
It seems pretty clear that he was given a little extra time, which is normal and to be expected in a title fight. I think Rosenthal did a good job and the better man won the fight.
You don’t seem to have the wherewithal to tell when I’m playing devil’s advocate to spur discussion.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
A lot of posters on this site don’t, even when they are explicitly told that is what you are doing.
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Jul 7, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't think he was talking about you
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 7, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
and yes. I was talking about the other guy
but Kid Nate will do. Listen. Not everybody is going to be the man here. Luke is the man. Let Kid be the villain? :)
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not that clear to me (extra time thing)
I know what you are doing with your post. I just don’t see how Lesnar got the “extra time” you are talking about. Only a person who wants to find an excuse to fault Brock would say that.
You are saying the better man won but was given extra time. No. He was given the RIGHT amount of time. It’s not his fault ref’s suck. Oh and you don’t need to be so defensive. Everybody here knows about your posts on Fedor and Brock. Your site, your way :)
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm saying there are plenty of fights
that have been stopped with less damage being done and a fighter no more out of his faculties.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Examples?
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 7, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Care to name another because that one sucked. Josh’s eyes were rolling back after falling to the canvas.
by sadface on Jul 8, 2010 12:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, Brock didn’t really go limp at any point
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 8, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Velasquez vs Stojnic
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 8, 2010 4:35 AM EDT up reply actions
That's a horrible example Nate.
Koscheck fell back totally out of it.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
well....It is an issue
I saw the fight. Brock was beaten. Sorry, I know this is hard for you to come to grips with. Shane won period. If you saw this fight on the street with no rounds or breaks, one would most certainly say, “wow brock got his ass handed to him.”
Before Lesnar smothered Shane with his mass, did Brock truly look like an undisputed champion?? Get real
Shane was almost unquestionably the heavier fighter that night. Try again.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 8, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
If you saw this fight on the street with no rounds or breaks, one would most certainly say, "wow brock got his ass handed to him."
Maybe, but they were fighing in the UFC, therefore “Street Fight” logic doesn’t apply ;)
And after watching the fight again, Brock Lesnar still won the fight… In round 2 by submission.
May be tough for you to come to grips with, but you’ll get over it…
In the street
it would still be clear the Brock won since Shane would have went to sleep from the choke.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
Not to mention
Most of the guys who fight in the street don’t have a fucking clue about how to actually fight. They just fight like Carwin did. Throw bombs until the other guy is knocked out. And if he doesn’t end up knocked out they are fucked, just like Carwin was.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Josh is now be rewarded for doing the right thing by the dumb media insinuating that it was just special treatment for Brock… and that he would have made the wrong call if Brock wasnt fighting.
The Stupidity is mind boggling.
by mmalogic on Jul 7, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
I think it was Luke that wrote up a good article on the ref skills that Rosenthal put on display.
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
Luke is the only logical person here :) Johnathan and Kid keep attacking Brock and bring up Fedor beats Brock. Who cares. Can’t we just focus on how things should be done instead of what Fedor fan boys think?
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
without the bitter the sweet is just bland.
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I know.
But some of these guys are just too much for me. I mean let it go already. Shane could not finish. The only person who would have stopped this is probably Mazagatti
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
The other thing these crybabies are harping on is that Carwin made brock look beatable… but what they fail to realize and mention is that it took Carwins power, size and defensive wrestling that made Brock look beatable.
Now all of sudden a 230lb guy with no wrestling can do it because Carwin did it.
by mmalogic on Jul 7, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have no problem with people criticizing Brock
I just think he is so important for MMA going mainstream. These people who just take every opportunity to badmouth Brock are just not getting it. He is getting so much coverage for the sport and has cleaned up his act somewhat. So, he is not the best technical fighter around. Maybe he is unfairly big. Still, to suggest Brock was out when he wasn’t or he can’t beat Fedor when it does not even matter is nonsense.
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
brock lesnar is the best thing that ever happened to Bloody Elbow
i’m saddened that i have to point out that we love having so many people come here to argue the pros and cons of such a popular fighter.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I take offense to that statement. I am the best thing that ever happened to Bloody Elbow, sir.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 7, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
We can't leave out that GIF guy, though.
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
What's really good?
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Jul 7, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Bollywood gifs are banned under the Unified Rules
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 7, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 7, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I certainly hope that your "230lb guy with no wrestling"
isn’t a reference to Cain Velasquez, because that would be pretty dumb, considering his NCAA street cred.
"Overdrive the sound and make it sound pretty rude." - Jimmy Page
Fedor.
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jul 7, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
My views are well known
I thought Rosenthal did a fantastic job. No secret there.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Jul 7, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Luke you are the man.
I have never seen anyone put it the way it is as you did after the fight. Is Kid Nate just a hater? :)
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah
Nate’s just being Nate. We can’t all agree. No sense in trying to pretend otherwise.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
Fair enough.
I do believe if Fedor and Lesnar fight, some of these discussions will be decided. Probably won’t happen though.
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Luke that writeup was refreshing...
Great points, and a unique perspective that people forget about… the 3rd man in the cage.
Classic B.E. goodness.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
If all the opinions on BE are one and the same then people will start to venture off and look for the other side of the coin elsewhere. How do you keep people from doing that? Offering both sides of the major topics and allowing users to debate in the comment section.
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
There is no other side though :)
Brock was never close to going out. haha. I mean we are not FoxNews here looking for the other side when there is none. you feeling me. :)
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
There is. Look at the comments some people agree.
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly my point.
Some people listen to FoxNews or MSNBC and agree with everything they say :) I am over it though. Lesnar will lose someday and these people will be happy. MMA is not all about Lesnar. time to pull for Silva now : )
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Pulling for Sonnen
I want to see more heads explode. People get way too emotionally invested in this stuff.
do you own any Alex Jones paraphernalia?
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know who that is, but do you? ;)
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
I can neither confirm nor deny such knowledge.
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
haha
Now it’d be nice if I knew who you were talking about. Is he the guy who says jesus was an alien?
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
No but if it pays he will certainly say jesus is an alien
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I looked him up on Wikipedia
He is Jesus 2.0. Sorry. I don’t follow him cause I don’t think the first one existed ;)
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s an attention whore who found a niche
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Are we talking about Cold Stone?
Just joking.
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s actually pulling some serious names for interviews it’s hilarious
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
butthurt people
Fedor lost, Brock won and they are sad pandas. Personally, I’m enjoying recent events in MMA very much.
I am just glad M1 does not have their leverage
M1 == Cancer
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
:(
…why’d I lose my logic?
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 7, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
hm...
What did you think of Brock’s fight? I forgot. haha
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/7/4/1552212/ufc-116-brock-lesnar-vs-shane
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 7, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
oh I read that.
Only you and Luke are logical here :)
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Title Fights Usually Get More Leeway
I don’t see why people are still harping on this? Hell Jan Finney, or whatever, got her ass beat worse than Brock did and they let it go on because she was defending herself. Brock wasn’t even saved by the bell he actually got up when he got the chance and that shows that he was fine. It’s not like he went into Rodgers mode and was just laying on his side with no offense or control of his opponent. Brock threw some punches and was kicking Shane off.
As time went on I thought Shane was eventually going to KO Brock on the ground, but at the time I didn’t see anything that called for a stoppage.
by HaterSlayer on Jul 7, 2010 4:14 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Yep
Randy took a TON of hammerfists without moving
Finney took a beating.
Carwin beat the piss out of Mir
Nog was knocked down 4 times in his match with Mir.
Forrest took a hellacious beating from Rashad.
BJ Penn took a beating from GSP
None of those guys were defending themselves. Lesnar was. Carwin, and anyone else who thinks it shoulda been stopped, are of the mind that a certain amount of punches leads to a stoppage. Lesnar had his hands up or when he didn’t, he was controlling Carwin’s wrists or pushing him off.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 7, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
Even Miguel Torres took like 4 shots to the face
and he was clearly out. Arms to his sides and fully asleep. Bowles popped him a few times clean and Miguel made sure to say that that is how it should be. Lesnar was never clearly out of it.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
If memory serves me correct (and it might not), Rosenthal was the referee in the Torres/Bowles fight as well.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Yep.
Just went back and checked and you are right. Rosenthal was the ref for that fight.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
This is my favorite part of the reaction.
Brock offered next to nothing for the first round, just covered up and defended well. He’s a fucking hero and badass for surviving and onslaught.
Jan Finney defends well and shows the same level of heart… THINK OF THE CHILDREN! STOP IT SOONER!
There’s a lot of overlap between the two groups. If you are in the center part of this venn diagram, be aware of it.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jul 7, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Finney was getting the shit beat out of her much worse than brock. Terrible comparison.
by Hendo_One-Shot on Jul 7, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Mm-hmm
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 7, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya, cause Jan was clearly getting hit by a 280 lbs Mack truck like Lesnar was. Finney was eating a lot more shots, but let’s be real here, not one of them had KO potential. The only difference here is that Brock came back to win it and Finney didn’t.
Personally, I think Finney was more actively defending herself then Brock was not that it really matters. Both fights were well ref’ed imo.
yea, but lesnar was blocking most of the shots, Finney wasn’t. She was also turtled up much much longer than lesnar.
by Hendo_One-Shot on Jul 7, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s acceptable to me when fighters don’t have insane punching power. Look at the Bonnar finish, if he was hitting as hard as Carwin, do you think that fight would have been stopped earlier? At 135 lbs, Cyborg just isn’t hitting hard enough to end a fight without a significant number of shots landing. The fact that Finney got up for a second round is proof of that. Her corner should have thrown in the towel, but the ref did what she was supposed to.
And Finney didn't come back and win
That’s kind of an important detail.
"Overdrive the sound and make it sound pretty rude." - Jimmy Page
I don't think it is at all.
Rosenthal wasn’t aware that Brock was going to come back and win the fight, nor should it have mattered to him. If he was defending intelligently at the time, the fight should not have been stopped.
Another professional athlete in the same sport deserves the same treatment, no?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jul 7, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Finney was also getting hit by somebody 100 lbs lighter
She defended well, people still screamed for an earlier stoppage. It’s a double standard which these two situations really illustrate that well.
It’s fine to not like women’s MMA. Some people don’t like seeing women get hit. I’m not passing judgement at all, it’s just noteworthy.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jul 7, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
No. you’re just wrong. Finney was getting dominated much more consistantly than Lesnar was. You’re trying to force people to fit into your stereotype of people who think lowly of womens MMA, and you just fail. give up.
by Hendo_One-Shot on Jul 7, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Well fuck you very much.
I’m talking about a select group of people. And they do exist.
By the way, declaring “fail” is not a valid method of discussion. In fact, it’s so profoundly stupid that there’s not even a name for it… unless we just call it an aspect of solipsism.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jul 7, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a matter of gender stereotypes.
It just is. People don’t think women should be getting hit the same way a man should. If that fight had been Evangelista Cyborg vs. Jim Finney, I think people would have a very different opinion of the reffing.
People are way too picky when it comes to stoppages. I think the ref should only stop a fight if it is clear that the only possible outcome to the fight continuing is a fighter getting knocked unconscious. The ref should save the fighter the problems that are associated with going out.
If Brock lesnar was able to stand up before the round ended, the fight shouldn’t have been stopped. Arguing otherwise is just sour grapes.
by Phildo on Jul 7, 2010 4:14 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
I agree...
Especially with this -
If Brock lesnar was able to stand up before the round ended, the fight shouldn’t have been stopped. Arguing otherwise is just sour grapes.
More could be said, but that about sums it up for me.
And I’m fully convinced if it had been the other way around, many people online would NOT be criticizing the ref for not calling it a stoppage in that round.
Brock standing at the end of the round is key
If the buzzer goes with Shane on top reigning down punches, there’s definitely some serious outrage after the fight.
I have accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as my personal Heavyweight Champion!
Baptized in Coors Light and Jack's Links jerky!!!
Dressed in my heavenly DeathClutch robes!!!
Watch the fight and give me the exact time it should've been stopped.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
Hahaha
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 7, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
For the win!!
Nice one bro!
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 7, 2010 4:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Should we really take the opinion of Kevin Iole's readers seriously?
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
by RobertGBP on Jul 7, 2010 4:15 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
well enough of you seem to be outraged by them
that I’m confirmed in my assumption that it would be good fodder for discussion.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Isn't that WKR?
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
Simple yet effective
So we have, on one side of the argument, Luke Thomas, the ref, the fighter “robbed” of the victory himself, and most sane people.
On the other side, we have some Yahoo! commenters (that’s not a jab, that’s a literal branding)
And you give them equal weight?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 7, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus, who wants to bet that the people that have issue with the stoppage aren’t “ref critical” people that follow that issue, but just Shane Carwin fans.
Or Lesnar haters
I guess they do highly overlap.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 7, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Damned if you do, Damned you don't
If that fight got stopped and Brock got right, then this post we be about how the fight got stopped too soon.
The fact remains that Carwin didn’t put Brock away, the ref didn’t stop the fight and Brock ended up coming back. These are facts and truths, so everyone needs to deal with it and move on
Nah
I truely believe that the hate for Lesnar is so strong, that no one would care as much.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 7, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
He wasn’t only turtling up, he kicked Shane off him several times. Shane is just making excuses and losing fans respect. Welcome to the Tito club Shane. You can be the Vice-President. I supposed I would be Boo-hooing If I gassed myself out punching someone in the arms too. You lost. Lesson learned. Get over it.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 7, 2010 4:18 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Where was Shane crying about the fight not being stopped?
by ufc4 on Jul 7, 2010 4:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Where did I say the word crying? He has been making excuses since the fight ended. Boo hooing=feeling sorry for himself and making excuses.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 7, 2010 4:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Don't be hard on the guy
His doctor said he was fighting 8 months pregnant.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 7, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I heard Dana stabbed him with poison just before the fight, under his trunks so no one could see the wound. A la the movie Gladiator.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 7, 2010 4:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
“As a ref, I thought he did a great job. How could I have any qualms since Brock was able to come back and beat me? It would have been a different story if Brock would have taken a bunch more unnecessary punishment and got messed up from it.”
what a real jerk.
Kimbo wants to take your caterpiller and do bad things to it.
by Mr.Kib on Jul 7, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
I see right through that dude's facade
Bruh is wet toilet tissue transparent.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 7, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
side effect if his bronchitis meds?
YAMATO DAMASHII
follow me on twitter. http://twitter.com/RileyfromCanada
by R.T. on Jul 7, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Semantics, you are making it sound like the guy has been bitching and moaning ever since the fight was over that it should have been stopped in the first round and that couldn’t be farther from the truth.
by ufc4 on Jul 7, 2010 4:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Making excuses is not the same as bitching and moaning.
Quit twisting my words. I know u guys are BFFs since he one word answers you on Twitter. Big deal. First it was a body cramp, then it was broncotis now it’s Lactic Acidosis or whatever he said on Twitter. Sounds lime excuses.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 7, 2010 4:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Look, you compared him to Tito and that is just…not ..very nice.
Kimbo wants to take your caterpiller and do bad things to it.
Ok i take back the Tito comment.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 7, 2010 4:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think he’s a nice guy sure but I think it’s pretty common knowledge that I picked Brock and was rooting for Brock so that pretty much cancels out that excuse. The guy said the ref did a good job and accepted his loss, what more do you want?
by ufc4 on Jul 7, 2010 4:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It’s clear now they want Brock to vacate the title and admit on ESPN that he lost the fight and Fedor is still #1
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just don't want to hear any excuses from any fighter.
Look at Fedor’s loss, I don’t recall hearing him have one excuse. They are just not necessary in my opinion. And for the record even though I picked Brock too, I was a big Carwin fan. Hell even when I asked Sylvia WTF happened with the Mercer disaster, he just shook his head and said I looked right past him and didn’t take the fight seriously. I’m done with the argument now. Agree to disagree.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 7, 2010 4:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well then..
Me = Carwin, You = Lesnar ;-)
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 7, 2010 5:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, Lesnar was turtling at moments but looking at it again he didn’t just stay that way. When he was asked to mve he moved when he was asked to improve position he did. He was also doing a pretty good job even if he was turtling of actually blocking the punches coming in. Shane was swinging away and wasn’t picking the gaps in Brock’s defenses.
You have to look at Brock’s whole body when you watch him getting hit. His torso and legs were still moving during most of the rush. If ther is any fighter that would have been stopped early if he was in the UFC it would have been Big Nog. He was blasted past the threshold in my opinion a couple times in Pride and recovered enough to get the win.
It’s a slow news day when a reader on a completely different blog gets first page news.
You gotta pay the troll toll, to get into this boy's soul.
hey
I had something to say and that was what triggered my thinking on the topic.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Stop ruining my righteous indignation!
You gotta pay the troll toll, to get into this boy's soul.
by WestbergIDFC on Jul 7, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Could you not find an actual article written by anyone that felt this way?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 7, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Everything we post is “first page news”. We don’t have “featured stories” like a Sherdog, etc.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Didn’t Lesnar say Rosenthal explained that he and Carwin would get 3 warnings before he stopped it?
Brock made sure to move and react when Rosenthal said something.
I was looking for that same quote...
That interview should end this debate…
But I have a feeling it wont!
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
While still subjective, ref’s have a FAR better angle on fighter conditions that we ever will, no matter how high your def is.
Tan Dan had motherfucking great point of view when he stopped Vera/Werdum.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 7, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah, Steve "Hot Tub" Mazagatti still has that title
"Overdrive the sound and make it sound pretty rude." - Jimmy Page
Didn’t Rosenthal ref the Leben/Simpson fight? It looked like Simpson just stumbled but Rosenthal was quick on the draw to stop the fight on that occasion. Brock himself said he was out/thought it was gonna be stopped/was already getting ready for a huge letdown.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
When and where did Brock say that?
Because I’ve read quotes from Brock where he said he was hoping Josh wouldn’t stop it, but never any quotes were he thought he was out.
"Overdrive the sound and make it sound pretty rude." - Jimmy Page
last paragraph
is the most important. having brock lesnar as HW champ, drawing casual sports fans and creating new fans… is good for the sport.
it’s not like any laws or rules are being obviously and flagrantly broken. just subconsciously bent a little bit – the jordan rules. (http://www.amazon.com/Jordan-Rules-Sam-Smith/dp/0671796666)
www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology
The precedent had already been set!
If you look at the volume of unanswered blows K-SOS absorbed while turtled up before the fight was stopped, it doesn’t seem like Brock was getting any special champion treatment.
I said that a while ago
K-SOS took a lot of shots.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 7, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it was excellent reffing.
If it’s o.k to cover up standing against the fence it should be o.k to cover up on the ground.
I think blocking punches to your face is the best definition of “Intelligent Defense”
It would be dumb not to.
This happens in every sport. The Jordan rules in basketball. Greg Maddux or Roger Clemens getting the strike call on the pitch two inches out of the strike zone. The best players are gonna get the benefit of the doubt and they have earned it.
by ufc4 on Jul 7, 2010 4:23 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Brocks earned it… because of his WWE days?
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 7, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Well he was the champ coming in to the fight regardless of if he earned the leeway or not.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 7, 2010 4:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He didn’t even earn the shot against Couture.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 7, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s no point in even arguing with you so I won’t bother, every time Brock comes up in an article you turn into a troll.
by ufc4 on Jul 7, 2010 4:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Quote me where Im trolling? Im just saying the truth. You…about to be mad. lol Did he earn his shot against Couture? No. Thats not trolling.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 7, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not mad, just pointing out the rudiculousness of your posts regarding Brock. What the hell does Brock earning or not earning his title shot against Randy have to do with the subject anyway? You are a master at dead-horse beating.
by ufc4 on Jul 7, 2010 4:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 12 recs
^^^This should be green
Changing the subject is a terrible way to argue and shows a total lack of a real argument.
I have accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as my personal Heavyweight Champion!
Baptized in Coors Light and Jack's Links jerky!!!
Dressed in my heavenly DeathClutch robes!!!
Look at your sig, I won’t even bother with you.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 7, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh get off it
You wanna talk about the stoppage or lack thereof that’s fine. I’ve said numerous times on this site I can clearly see the merits in both sides of the argument. But when you start going on about Brock not deserving the fight with Randy, you’re just crying sour grapes. It’s an old and long dead subject. Talking about matchmaking from over a year and a half ago is a shitty argument no matter how you wanna spin it.
I have accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as my personal Heavyweight Champion!
Baptized in Coors Light and Jack's Links jerky!!!
Dressed in my heavenly DeathClutch robes!!!
by Worldisart on Jul 7, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
So lets get on subject then.
Quotes from your Lord and Savior…
There were instances were I was out.
I though the fight was going to be stopped.
I was ready for a huge letdown.
The 1st quote is enough. But I guess you and Rosenthal knew more than Brock himself.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 7, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah they knew he could still win the fight.
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
That's special
What does any of that have to do with his fight with Randy Couture? That’s what I’m taking you tot task for here. But like you’re so good at, spin spin spin away from the subject. Right?
And as far as my sig goes, I suppose I can’t expect internet tight asses of you to take anything with a sense of good fun. Can’t have that now can we? Pull the pickle out of your ass dude.
I have accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as my personal Heavyweight Champion!
Baptized in Coors Light and Jack's Links jerky!!!
Dressed in my heavenly DeathClutch robes!!!
Those quotes
are so out of context it’s not even funny. The worst part is, in order to quote mine them you HAVE to know the context so it’s just simple, dishonest trolling.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
He never said it SHOULD be stopped, though
And he’s not a referee. Him telling Rosenthal how to ref would be like you telling people how to think.
Oh, um, never mind.
Randy Couture chose Brock Lesnar as his comeback fight.
It was one of his conditions for ending his “retirement”, fucking Affliction over and coming back.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 7, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s been told that numerous times in the past, somehow he always manages to spin it so that Brock should feel bad for being offered the title shot and should have turned it down.
by ufc4 on Jul 7, 2010 5:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
xFenixKnightX
His entire post history seems to be comprised of whining and crying about one thing or another. Seems like he must be pretty miserable. Maybe we should throw him a party, maybe a get some beers, a stripper, you know something to help the poor guy get his smile one, know what I mean?
We could show some Fedor highlight reels, play Brock’s loss to Mir over and over and then maybe he might cheer up a bit!
I have accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as my personal Heavyweight Champion!
Baptized in Coors Light and Jack's Links jerky!!!
Dressed in my heavenly DeathClutch robes!!!
I'm pretty sure he's been banned before, I think it was him that mentioned it on Bad Left Hook.
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
Nah, wasn't me.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 7, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
He’d probably enjoy it more if we brought over some Battlestar Galactica dvd’s and played Dungeons & Dragons with him.
by ufc4 on Jul 7, 2010 5:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not a fan of either of those, buddy.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 7, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey! I like D&D and the first two seasons of BSG are pretty damn good (the rest…meh).
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 8, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Settle down, man. I’m good. :) But thanks for caring.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 7, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Umm, okay… lol
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 7, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
The best players are gonna get the benefit of the doubt and they have earned it.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 7, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Well he did beat couture
That makes it ok don’t it.
by Kim Hvid Johnsen on Jul 7, 2010 4:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
DIE, MOTHERFUCKING HORSE, DIE
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
by RobertGBP on Jul 7, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
PC load letter? What the fuck does that mean?
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Your name is killer. Well done.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 7, 2010 5:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you. I am debating on putting “Hope and change motherfucker” for my sig but probably wait for something better. Old username was Bob Boblaw
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Well then you better bring back my sig line, son
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 7, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah yea, I remember the old name! I’ve been trying to come up with one but I’m waiting til I can think of a good one. If I change my name maybe everyone will forget I’m a Sylvia nut hugger. Haha
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 7, 2010 5:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ha
He knows, it’s hard being a fan and friend. It’s really kinda weird. I know Lawler, Pulver, McFrederies, Miletich, Mike C, and LC Davis all too. I’m just not boys with any of them like I am with Tim. I take his losses pretty hard.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jul 7, 2010 5:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Brock Lesnar should be treated different his is the biggest star this sport has ever seen and will play a big part in getting mainstream acceptance. I was shocked how many people i came across talking about UFC 116 and Brock.
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Wasn't this...
The same ref as the Mir vs Carwin fight? Everyone thought that Mir was given to much time to defend himself from Carwin in that fight too.
Big Dan was the ref in that fight
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 7, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the best refs in the biz stop that fight in the 1st. Herb Dean and Big John.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 7, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
If that’s the call the best refs in the biz make then MMA officiating is truly in a sad state of affairs (well, worse than it is at least).
by David Castillo on Jul 7, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Brock got out of it. Therefore, he was doing enough to defend himself and the fight correctly wasn't stopped.
You bet on Carwin, right?
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
I disagree with this logic.
Condit ended up beating Ellenberger, but I really think that fight should have been stopped in the 1st. And I like Condit.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jul 7, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
If a reff stopped that fight in the first, they wouldnt be one of the best ref’s in the biz!
They would have cost Brock a title that he earned and defended.
Would Big John have stopped the Randlema/Fedor fight after Fedor got dropped on his head?
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
I would have stopped it
cuz I thought Fedor was dead, literally. I had this shocked look of horror upon my face when it happened. I woulda been wrong to stop it, though.
I don’t think this point is valid considering the ref works for the commission, not the UFC. He has a job and could care less about who the star is.
"90% of this sport is 50% mental" - Tim Sylvia
by Figs on Jul 7, 2010 4:31 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Biggest non-issue in the history of MMA
I can’t believe this angle is still getting play.
Just because there’s nothing to talk about doesn’t mean there should be. It’s amazing to me that just because we’re used to shitty stoppages we should somehow accept them when it seems like the standard is being raised in a high profile fight. Just unbelievable. More to the point, Brock was intelligently defending himself. Watch the fight again. He’s moving at just the right intervals, either by putting his arms up, or moving his legs.
Couldnt agree more.
This BS is still going on for one of two reasons…
1. Brock hate is running wild on these interwebs.
2. Controversy (even if it is completely phony) drives up site traffic.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
seems like everyone is still enjoying discussing the topic
it was a great fight, we waited more than a year to see it, why shouldn’t we hash it out a little longer?
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
well, sort of
I can only speak for myself (though I suspect many will agree with me) when I say that discussions are more enjoyable when people are supporting their positions with evidence, or an interesting perspective. If you wanted to make an interesting argument out of your “thesis” you should pointed towards…I dunno…the actual fight. At what interval should the fight have been stopped? Or for a broader perspective, at what point should any fight be stopped? Is Rosenthal’s officiating in the Lesnar fight behavior that should be emulated by fellow officials? If not, why not? And was Brock defending in such a way that could be considered intelligent defense? I feel like for a piece titled “was Carwin robbed”, these would have been questions worth addressing instead of giving some goober on yahoo the oxygen of publicity just because he has a different (albeit, psychotic when read in full) opinion.
by David Castillo on Jul 7, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Thought process of a Carwin fan as round one unfolded...
Wow, Brock looks awkard on his feet
Holy sh!^ Carwin just tagged him
Holy sh!^ Brock felt Carwin’s power and is scared
Holy sh!^ Carwin is smashing him…
This is close to being stopped…
One more good punch outta do it
One more good punch outta do it!!
Jesus Carwin! Don’t slow down! One more punch outta do it!!!
Fu$% sakes. Brock survived.
by Daveyboy on Jul 7, 2010 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
That's the same reaction I had
Rooting for Brock.
Just change the last sentence to:
Thank God! Brock survived.
Damn fight almost gave me a heart attack.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 7, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Although you weren’t impressed.
by Mocha Shaka Khan on Jul 7, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
I was always...
…impressed by the fight. Crazy and had us out of our seats. I can’t remember the last time I cared THAT much about the result of a fight. At least since UFC 114. :)
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 7, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Backpedaling writer backpedals.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Jul 7, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
From the original
I saw a wildly entertaining fight
As a spectacle, it was amazing. Lesnar’s display of fortitude will become a big part of his legend.
Fight was great. Show was great! Excellent night.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 7, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
The title of your article was...
“Best in the world, Brock Lesnar and shane Carwin FAIL TO IMPRESS AT UFC 116”
btw… Entertaining does not equal impressive.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Jul 7, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
your quote above…
I was always impressed by that fight.
Your headline Sunday morning…
Brock Lesnar and shane Carwin FAIL TO IMPRESS AT UFC 116
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Jul 7, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I watched another fight today
It was between Joe Doerkson and Chris Leben. It was fucking awesome. But it didn’t make me think-“man, Joe Doerkson is an unstoppable machine of a man.”
See the difference?
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 7, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
But...
Joe Doerkson IS an unstoppable machine of a man.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Jul 8, 2010 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to put words in his mouth, but there is a difference between the individual fighters being impressive (for instance, in terms of technical ability displayed) and the fight as a whole being impressive (from an entertainment standpoint).
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jul 7, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought exactly the same thing...
Lesnar was one punch away, but Carwin couldn’t land that punch.
I was cheering for Carwin, but I couldn’t pin point a time where the fight needed t be stopped.
It was insane
Followed by girlish yells of “Stop…Stop!!! He’s alllreaady deeead…”
but he wasn’t! I started rooting for Brock…I never root for brock. That was awesome. Brocky baby
by Body Triangle on Jul 7, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I've seen that situation stopped
but nobody can say that Carwin was robbed. As mentioned above, title fights, especially the super-uber-insano-hyped title fights that those extra 500K buyers who only sometimes buy UFC PPV tuned in to watch are not usually stopped quickly. Especially that early in the fight. If round 2 looked just like round 1, and round 3 was more of the same, I bet we’d have seen it stopped. But clearly stopping the fight in round one would have been premature, and then Lesnar would have been robbed of the win that he went on to earn.
I consider myself a softcore fan.
Yeah
Yesterday I told myself to stay away from these posts but here we are. Dammit! =/
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 7, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
wow he won and ppl keep going
i dont understand the mind set of ppl… brock showed crazy heart and pulled the w with a arm triangle and ppl still make excuses against brock..he beat randy and all u heard was well randy is old ..he beat heath and all u heard was heath is a nobody now…when he beat mir all u heard was man brock just lays on ppl…now he beats carwin who is the same weight as brock and ppl still are comming up with excuses…lol brock is 6 fights in with the belt and defended it twice…stop hatin..i thought all these excuses would quit after the carwin fight.. now he is bout to fight cain and he might beat cain but lol haters will hate..if he wins against cain im sure there will b more excuses
by prodigymma on Jul 7, 2010 4:37 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
He certainly was a few seconds away from losing on a stoppage
Rosenthal was running back and forth, all on his toes to dive in. But he warned Brock and Brock shaped back up and kept moving.
Maybe people are grumpy because it was so close to being over. I think Carwin’s fighting was certainly affected by listening to the ref too much — He thought he had it in the bag and started just punching Brock’s arms to keep up the volume to get his stoppage.
What would this sport be without a little gray-area controversy? Brock still came back and smashed the shit out of Carwin, so it’s not like we didn’t at least get a finish.
Extra leeway?!
Brock was lucid and fighting back/intelligently covering up/working for guard/shooting for a leg throughout the duration of his beating. At no point did he go limp nor did his eyes gloss. From up close, it was probably clear that Carwin’s punches were losing steam and not penetrating Lesnar’s defense with any noticeable effect.
This isn’t Japan, and Brock is not Sakuraba.
"The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world..."
Thinking this was special treatment for brock lesnar is beyond stupid… How many shots did couture take after lesnar dropped him? How many shots did Frank Mir take in the Carwin fight…. How many shots did scott smith take in both cung le fights… how many shots did ninja take during the lawler fight.
This is so fucking stupid.
Do you realize how much shit these refs get from camps before the fight about stopping it too early? do you know how much shit they get after a fight if and in case they do stop it too early? ask the ref who worked the koschek – Paulo Thiago fight.
It’s obvious now that rosenthal didnt make the wrong call yet we’re still insinuating that it was special treatment for brock… even if it were a preliminary fight – it would have been the wrong call if he stopped it and the fighters camp would have ripped the ref a new asshole.
There’s something a fighter does even when he’s getting hit in the arms which is like a stealth tap which the ref’s explain to them before the fight. Even if the fighter is blocking shots the ref will give him warnings and if he turns away or doesnt move that means he wants no more (like what Krystof did)… this was created so a fighter can tap without tapping.
by mmalogic on Jul 7, 2010 4:41 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
If Rosenthal stops that fight, then I believe Stone Cold and The Rock rush the cage and stomp a mudhole in his candy-ass, then Brock drags him out and F5s him through the Spanish announcers’ table.
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
come on nate
champions have gotten extra special treatment the entire history of mma, especially when calling questionable tko’s
Its not about Champions getting special treatment...
Its about Brock not being “out” yet.
Why should it have been stopped if Carwin was the won who couldnt breathe after the round, and Brock is the one who had the energy and ability to finish the fight 3 minutes later.
The fight should be stopped when a fighter cant continue. Brock took a grown-man sized ass beating, but he COULD continue… Need proof? Watch the 2nd round… IIRC, he DID continue!
By this article’s logic, maybe it should have been stopped inbetween rounds since Carwin was so damn gassed.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Jul 7, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
beautiful
couldn’t agree more… to be honest, i hate when people argue that a fight ’should’ve’ been stopped just because there have been questionable stoppages in the past, when a guy is taking a beating but clearly not out. rec’d
by cagefightonlsd on Jul 7, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
This might be a legit argument if the fight was not stopped allowing Lesnar to be saved by the bell...
but by the end of the round Brock had escaped and pinned Carwin against the cage.
How did I end up on this bandwagon and why does everything say property of Chael Sonnen?
Somewhere a dead horse is being stomped upon.
And Rosenthal’s call was fairly well vindicated by Lesnar’s come back win. However, I think it’s also pretty obvious that the biggest star of the sport got a little bit of extra leeway that wouldn’t have been extended to your average UFC preliminary fighter.
Your average UFC preliminary fighter would have been out COLD!
Your average UFC preliminary fighter wouldnt have stood back up and WON the fight.
Brock was covering up, moving , and even kicking off of Carwin’s hips to make space… I understand the desire to get people talking about what has been a hot issue here on BE, but this is getting silly.
Its not Brock’s fault that Carwin gassed. Brock survived, and proved to be the better man in the fight. From now on, I expect Nate and Snowden to claim that anytime a fighter has a guy in trouble, but doesnt win, its because fighter A gassed or the ref should have stopped it…
Newsflash… COMEBACKS HAPPEN, and they are AWESOME!
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
lol even frank mir told brock
only loser say what if’s..maybe u should hit harder brock..u tapped u cried uncle…lol….cant brock tell carwin this stuff also? yes..but he wont bc brock knows he won plan and simple…there is no illusion here brock sub. carwin move on and lets talk cain vs brock..wich will be a goooood fight
by prodigymma on Jul 7, 2010 4:48 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Brock Lesnar got rushed to a title shot. He gets extra time to recover when he’s hurt. He wasn’t required to do a Primetime special to build the fight. The guy is special and gets treated as such. Get used to it UFC fans.
It’s a god damn title match. Both fighters usually get extra leeway in title shots to avoid any shitstorm of controversy that might erupt from an early stoppage. Furthermore it’s already been reported repeatedly the criteria that Josh Rosenthal gave to both fighters before the event under which he would stop the fight. Stop acting like Brock got any special treatment here that Carwin wouldn’t have if the positions were reversed.
NO,
would be the answer to the title of this article.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
What an utter load of crap.
Perhaps my best years are gone. When there was a chance of happiness. But I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now. No, I wouldn't want them back.
If Rosenthal had stopped it
I bet the MMA world would be up in arms about how the fight was stopped prematurely.
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
hard not to give props to brock but......
but brock said he has no memory of hitting the ground or getting dropped he was hurt
and after being hurt bad enough to erase his memory he was allowed to take 39 UNANSWERED punches
five days after a rare death occurs in this sport brock is allowed to take 39 unanswered punches after a flash knockout
we all know about the fertitta’s ties to organized crime
we all remember the pride debacle with the yakuza payin off officials and fixing fights
we all know organized crime is notorious for paying off officials in sports to satisfy the big money to be made off of betting
not making accusations
i just don’t trust the fertitta’s or their mafia ties
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 7, 2010 5:12 PM EDT reply actions
wild and crazy conjecture is wild and crazy
by DirtyML on Jul 7, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I think Brock was fine...
So does the UFC heavyweight championship belt.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
"we all know about the fertitta’s ties to organized crime"
Please elaborate with more than just assumptions
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, this has to be the most idiotic, inane, absurd, nonsensical, half-baked, imbellic attempt to discredit Brock’s win. Seriously, you’ve whine about Lesnar since you’ve signed up here and since he won, he has to have been of the benefit of the promotion/organized crime paying the refs. I If this wasn’t Brock Lesnar, you wouldn’t be making this post. This post is high level Sherdog posting.
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
And if Shane wins...
doesn’t it do damage to his win, too? It’s not like they suddenly don’t have Mafia ties if Shane wins. Logic, he should try it some time.
"Overdrive the sound and make it sound pretty rude." - Jimmy Page
my assumption is that the mafia is making money off brock winning because of betting and gambling which the kansas city mafioso who put the fertitta’s in vegas is notorious for
the article assumes the ref was pressured by the ufc with no reward for the ref
my assumption seems more logical
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 7, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Since the odds going into the fight were the same for each fighter....
How was there a gambling edge betting on Brock?
"Overdrive the sound and make it sound pretty rude." - Jimmy Page
the odds get better in your favor
even if the betting lines do not
you can make money off a fight that is dead even on the books if you pick the winner
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 8, 2010 7:20 AM EDT up reply actions
the frank fertitta jr(franky 3 sticks and lorenzo’s dad) was brought to vegas by the kansas mob as part of it’s skimming operations that are well documented in the movie casino with robert deniro joe pesci and sharon stone
but their mafia connections go further back than that
here’s a good read about the connections between the fertittas to organized crime
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 7, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
So that must mean that they had the fight fixed since you brought them up.
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
i never said it was fixed
only that i wouldn’t be suprised
nothing shocks me with scumbags like the fertittas
i wouldn’t be suprised if a scandal similar to that of the yakuza pride scandal one day breaks with the ufc and organized crime
besides
even if the ref was paid to not call it so quick
that only makes brock more of a bad ass for still being able to come back and win after recieving a thrashing
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 7, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You come off like someone who got denied an internship with Zuffa
Casino LOL. Guess what Henry Hill was not really they gangster that Goodfellas made him look like. Shocking I know. JFK probably blew your mind.
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
naw
just obsessed with the mafia
and the publics perception that organized crime is dead and gone
the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn’t exist
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 7, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Dog, I know
Fucking Fertittas and their damn Mob Ties!
I also have inside info that the Fertitas are part of the Illuminati – which is totally run by Opus Dei – they made a movie and wrote a book about it and everything. You can look it up. It’s called “The Davinci Code.”
But I’m not accusing anybody of anything.
Ah
So every controversy in the UFC could be related to the Fertita’s mob connections?
GSP must have taken a fall against Serra then.
I apologize for my never-ending assault on the English Language. I feel like Qui the promoter from Jade Empire...
Now, but Joe Pesci slipped his corner the Vaseline in that BJ Penn fight...
"Overdrive the sound and make it sound pretty rude." - Jimmy Page
The weird thing is that I knew someone would catch it quickly
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
gsp serra wasn’t a controversy that was an upset
i’m not saying every controversy in the ufc is due to the mafia connections
but ones regarding the decisions of officials very well could be
i know it’s a total assumption so if you don’t agree with it that’s cool man
whether the ref was pressured by organized crime or by the ufc to not halt the fight the ref is still in the wrong
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 7, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Is this where we start calling it a fix?
I love these kind of Internet commenters – “I’m not saying it’s true, but I saw this video on 9/11 and it’s crazy!!!!!! why can’t we ask questions?”
“Why is it ‘taboo’ to explore what makes some races smarter than others? im not a racist, my only interest is in science and open discussion”
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 7, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Everything is bullshit until I see it on mythbusters
/sarcasm
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
no no i’m not saying it was fixed
i’m only sayin that it wouldn’t shock me one bit to have a similar scandal to the pride yakuza scandal one day break with the ufc and organized crime
just throwing a real possibility out there without denying or accepting it
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 7, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I recommend you read through Zach Arnold's archive on the Yakuza scandal in PRIDE
Who has about five pages covering the entire saga:
http://www.fightopinion.com/category/yakuza/
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
thanks for the link friend
i bookmarked it and most definetely will read it
if you think organized crime is above paying off officials or athletes to help line their pockets you’re sadly mistaken
i don’t see how more people aren’t worried about the fertitta’s corrupting the sport through the corrupt activities they’ve been known for
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 7, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm good friends with refs who work the big show.
They don’t get bribes. I 100% guarantee it. Now please never mention any of this silliness again. I don’t want you implicitly dragging the names of good men and officials through the mud because you want to project some mafioso fantasy onto MMA.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jul 7, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
regardless of whether the ref was pressured by the ufc to not halt the fight as the article assumes
or he was pressured by organized crime
he would still be in the wrong
i’m free to post assumptions anytime i please as long as i present them as such and not as fact
if you don’t agree i understand
and it’s cool man you ain’t gotta buy the kool aid i’m sellin man
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 7, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
So if I assume you steal from your employer
That’s OK as long as I present it as an assumption?
"Overdrive the sound and make it sound pretty rude." - Jimmy Page
No, I don't.
But I also don’t have to stand for you slandering honest men.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
first of all it wouldn’t be slander
it would be libel since it’s in a printed media
but it really wouldn’t be libel
i never said anyone had done anything wrong or illegal
the article did but i did not
i just said that it wouldn’t suprise me to learn organized crime has a real interest in the money to be made both off promoting and betting on this sport. and if organized crime is making money off this sport one thing is for sure organized crime does not play by the rules
listen friend
i’m free to express these feelings
and you’re free to not read them or to respond however you see fit
it seems obvious no one believes my half witted theory anyway
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 8, 2010 7:32 AM EDT up reply actions
You know who I don't trust?
Lizard People.
by CaptnAmerca on Jul 7, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
This made me snort.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
Well
If you don’t trust the credibility of the sport, then you need to stop watching it immediately. To p[resume a sport to be rigged, and then to continue to support said rigged sport, makes you part of the conspiracy.
We’ll miss you.
the sport has nothing to do with the corruption behind the business aspects of the sport and the money to be made off of it
when the yakuza pride scandall broke it didn’t discount the sport only the scumbags in charge
i never said that the ref was paid off
i simply said i don’t trust the fertittas organized crime is notorious for trying to pay off refs
in fact the man who brought frank fertitta to vegas kansas city crime boss nicolas cavella was caught trying to pay off superbowl officials.
the kansas city racket is notorious for things like this
and the kansas city family is who the fertitta’s pay their tithes to
i’ll keep my conspiracy theories to myself
and for the record if this were the case and officials were paid off
it wouldn’t change that brock deserves all the credit in the world
he came back and won like the champion he is
plain and simple
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 7, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
But why bring it up in the first place? And the comparison to the fighter who just died who shouldn't off been licensed to fight at all?
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
i bring it up because this is a discussion board
i bring it up because in the article it makes the assumption that perhaps the ref didn’t stop it because he was pressured not to by brocks value in the ufc.
the ref was pressured by the ufc or by the organized crime behind the ufc is a similar assumption and one that is equally as wrong on the part of the official
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 7, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
But the article assumes that the ref was pressured, but lacks any sort of evidence.
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
well then i have more evidence than the article
even if what little evidence i do have is merely circumstantial and a complete assumption
look man i’m not saying the ref was paid off
i’m saying it wouldn’t shock me
brocks still the man
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 7, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Always good for a laugh willis
Thanks man
Chris Leben is my hero
Sandstorm Remix bless your heart kid... Bless your heart
by II SMASH II on Jul 7, 2010 6:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
at least i'm good for something
no problem man
you can count on me and my absurd assumptions
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 7, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
You can be the new coleko
I’ve missed that guy since he got banned
Chris Leben is my hero
Sandstorm Remix bless your heart kid... Bless your heart
by II SMASH II on Jul 7, 2010 6:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i won’t get banned
i’m always respectful
you may not agree with my views but that’s cool
i won’t disrespect ya because you don’t agree with me
i know some of these pills are hard to swallow at best and completely ridiculous at worst
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 7, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I didnt say you would buddy
Is there anyway you can type your next conspiracy in broken english/russian?
Chris Leben is my hero
Sandstorm Remix bless your heart kid... Bless your heart
by II SMASH II on Jul 7, 2010 6:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
lol
russian will be hard for me to accomplish
but my lack of punctuation and capitalization should suffice for broken english
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 7, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
What do you know about the plaque conspiracy?
Chris Leben is my hero
Sandstorm Remix bless your heart kid... Bless your heart
by II SMASH II on Jul 7, 2010 6:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
haha
it’s a silly excuse for why someone doesn’t take care of their teeth
such as
“teeth are for gay people that’s why they are collected by fairy’s”
haha
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 7, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
If anyway gets this refrence ill insta-rec when I get home
Plaque conspiracy, Justin Timberlake, Metallica
Chris Leben is my hero
Sandstorm Remix bless your heart kid... Bless your heart
by II SMASH II on Jul 7, 2010 7:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I am the Wwwyzzerd!
Rec it, bitch.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jul 7, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 7, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
My favorite show ever, makes me laugh my ass off constantly
Ill rec both when I get home
Chris Leben is my hero
Sandstorm Remix bless your heart kid... Bless your heart
by II SMASH II on Jul 7, 2010 7:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i think the best part about it is the pause, then the addition of Metallica to the search. One of my favorite quotes of his
"The greatest enemy will hide in the last place you would ever look." - Revolver
by flyingkneetoface on Jul 7, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
if someone got banned because people didn't agree with em
half the people on BE staff would have to ban themselves
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 7, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
1) Fights are stopped in that situation because when a ref says “you gotta do something” the fighter doesn’t. Every time Rosenthal said “you gotta do something” Lesnar did something to show he was actively defending.
2) You only have to go back to Bellator to see a ref screw up and give a guy extra time. Joe Warren should not have been allowed out of the first round. He was getting pummeled, not improving position and was not defending intelligently. He was allowed to continue because the ref decided to ref that area of the fight differently. This allowed Warren to come back and win (a fight that should have at best been a draw).
3) …no, Shane was not robbed.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 7, 2010 5:15 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
I’m not mad. it’s done, i’ve moved on. But I mean…it’s a much better example of a guy getting unreasonable chances to survive than Lesnar
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 7, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
No. Lesnar was intelligently defending himself. Do you know who wasn't?
This guy!
Big difference.
by pud333 on Jul 7, 2010 5:18 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
that was an atrocious stoppage. as soon as Mir went flat it should have been stopped.
The funny thing is I dont recall Carwin Heaving or breathing heavy after that. fighting against a 265lb guy changes things …
by mmalogic on Jul 7, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think it was more of the Berserker part than the 265 lb part
by Hendo_One-Shot on Jul 7, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
plus it was a title fight so that adds some pressure/stress/anxiety and that can drain you, maybe carwin lost some strength too cutting his hair off like samson.
Maybe he enjoyed it?
This dude is the only ref to ever land a low blow on a fighter. Poking a dude and not even giving him time to recover, nice.
I'm a lover not a fighter
I thought the poke was his way of saying “He’s about to hit you right here”
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Good thing he shaved his head. You can really see the beginning of a sweet flesh yamika in this gif
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
DONKEY PUNCHES FTW!!!
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Jul 7, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
The Junkie caller is wrong in two aspects.
1) Lesnar was not on his back for the entire last half of the first round.
2) The idea of “intelligent defense” has been completely warped. Putting your hands in front of your face and moving is a sign that you are defending yourself. Covering up and lying flat on your back is not. See: Mir, Franklin vs. Lesnar, Brock and Carwin, Shane.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jul 7, 2010 5:18 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Correct you are sir
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 7, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
It's Francisco Mir
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 7, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you know what this is?
(envision me rubbing fingers together)..Its the worlds smallest violin and its playing just for you.
I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Jul 7, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you sir. I dont know how to post gifs.
I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!
Here ya go...
http://www.camdenchat.com/2010/4/17/1427880/how-to-make-pictures-a-suitable
Works for all SBN sites.
"Overdrive the sound and make it sound pretty rude." - Jimmy Page
This is Just a desperate attempt to Crap on the performance. At very few times during the fight was brock being hit cleanly AND consistently. He moved at all the right moments To prevent a stoppage. I was rooting for carwin (proof being that I lost a bet because of it) but at no point during the fight, did I or any of my friends who were all also rooting for carwin, say “This should be stopped already!”. It was close, but It’s the referee’s call, not yours, and it was the right call. How you guys can see the fight continue and brock lesnar make a comeback and win, and STILL say it should have been stopped is beyond me. I’m pretty sure the point of a stoppage is that the fighter being saved won’t be able to make a comeback : /
I am really surprised that Shane gets a pass for his comments
When Brock pulled out of the fight, he went on Twitter and said Brock was scared. Then he said what he said to MMA Junkie (saying that Brock went out a few times). I have no doubt Shane is a decent man but these comments just show maybe he is pretending a bit. Also what was with all the F bombs after the fight when he keeps saying that he wants to be a role model?
I've been saying this for months now
This whole “Mr. Good Guy” facade of Shane Carwin’s is just that.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 7, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I was rooting hard for Carwin, so I understand the sentiment behind wanting to see the fight stopped, but I can’t see how anyone can take that position now, with the benefit of hindsight. Rosenthal could have conceivably stopped the fight at a couple different points (fights have been stopped for less) but its pretty clear now that he made the right call by letting the action continue. Brock was conscious and using those tree-trunk wrists to good effect to avoid the worst of what Carwin was dishing out. I’m not a Brock fan, but that was a good bit of refereeing. It’s a shame that Brock can’t blow his nose without touching off a debate over the soul of Zuffa.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Jul 7, 2010 5:32 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Bravo. You basically said everything I wanted to say in my comment, but 10 times better.
by Hendo_One-Shot on Jul 7, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
hey
at least we’re talking about the fights. Better than talking about Dana White’s most recent “outrageous” comments or the business practices of Zuffa.
WAHH!!!
Anyone that thinks the fight should have been stopped should change their tampon. Brock won, fair and square. Why is everyone still complaining over a fair fight? Who cares what happened in other fights, this fight was fair, and the ref wasn’t needed. It stayed between 2 fighters, and ended w a submission. Case closed.
"Catch Wrestlers don't look for opportunities, we create them" - Josh Barnett
by Submit24 on Jul 7, 2010 5:45 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Lesnar is laughing to the bank
all these people will pay to see him lose or get stopped next time :)
by SheepleBuster on Jul 7, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Keep the comments up guys, you might get lucky and be the focus of Iole’s next article.
by ufc4 on Jul 7, 2010 5:55 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
The late night Batista comments are very article worthy.
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 7, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I was cheering on Carwin and wanted him to win, but even I was saying to myself “oh don’t stop this yet, let Carwin get a definitive knock out” and I while I think it was close, it never got to the point where it needed to be stopped. Lesnar still had fight in him.
I think Carwin is a class act. He knows he was bested that night. I really hope he puts a couple wins together and gets back to another title shot. If he does and Brock manages to beat both Velasquez and JDS/Nelson, I think demand for a rematch would be high.
Carwin nor Brock will get past Cain or JDS.....
Guys like Cain and Junior are the future of the division…..
Robbed is a strong, word, and I don't think he was robbed.
But comparing the reffing in the Schaub/Tuchscherer match to the main event sure makes you wish for some consistency. Who was the ref in that match?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
MOAT
(Most Overrated of All Time)
Perhaps my best years are gone. When there was a chance of happiness. But I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now. No, I wouldn't want them back.
I think he's still dining out on noticing Sylvia's arm break, so I'll give him a pass on the hype
But that fight had less reason to be stopped than Lesnar/Carwin. Agreed?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
If memory serves, Schaub starched him with about 5 rights in the first 30 seconds and then put him down shortly thereafter, at which point the guy was on all fours doing nothing to defend himself. So I disagree with your assessment. Further, we’ve seen guys fighting for the title receive a lot more leeway when it comes to being “rescued” by the ref.
In this instance, I think both refs did a great job (which is rare).
Perhaps my best years are gone. When there was a chance of happiness. But I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now. No, I wouldn't want them back.
It was the right call
More important than that is star players from every sport get favorable calls one way or another. It’s the way it works. Brock got some leeway but he’s good enough to have made the most out of it. I agree with black lesnar. I hope that this will change stoppages for the better. We know it won’t because there are very few competent refs and even they blow it on occasion.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
by dedstrk316 on Jul 7, 2010 6:19 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think this article is damn near trolling....
Just the title of the article alone has an inciting tone.
It’s fucking sad that MMA refs make the wrong call so much that when they actually do their job as stated by the athletic commisions, the general public is in disbelief.
Shane had the chance to finish Brock….he didn’t.
Shane gassed, Brock finished Shane….. end of fucking story!
Josh Rosenthal should get a post fight bonus for doing his job.
Kid Nate should know better than posting a flame story like this…..
by frizzkills on Jul 7, 2010 6:21 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
he had to steal back the crown from Snowden eventually, and with Snowden now getting much love for that Gerald Harris piece, all is right in the BE universe
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Jul 7, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah really learning my lesson
lol
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jul 7, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If the roles were reversed...
and Brock was doing the exact same thing to Shane, it would have been stopped in the first.
by William Wilson on Jul 7, 2010 6:54 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Ugh...
That’s all I’ve gotta say about this. I’ve seriously had my fill of this stuff. Lesnar beats a guy and gets torn down, Fedor loses and gets carried around on a throne. Absolutely ridiculous.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
Fedor...
has had bad moments plenty of times but never looked THAT bad for an entire round.
by William Wilson on Jul 7, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
But it wasn’t an entire round…only 69 seconds!
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 7, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
A little word from the Top maybe?
I think Dana might have said the ref….if you can, and it’s on the borderline…please let this fight go on a bit longer. Not with intent to allow serious injury to either fighter…but if we have a chance to have the fight go on THAT much longer with THAT much more entertainment…well, this is a championship brawl that people pay a lot to see, and dammit, they deserve a show!
That’s what I would have said to ref, and I would not have left out the big asterisk of ONLY LET IT KEEP GOING IF NO ONE IS GOING TO GET SERIOUSLY HURT——which more clearly would have been that if Brock’s head was banging off that mat a few times and his arms were DOWN and not defending, then stop that fight!
That being said, I think Brock was on the way out, but he pushed off and kicked off a couple times and got back to his feet. Other fights that get stopped too fast, well, that’s too bad, but in this one it was not the right time to stop it.
I think it's more like...
“Here is $______, no matter what, let this go on into the second round where Brock makes his comeback and Carwin lays there and does nothing. The fans will think he is gassed out because our trolls have made the fans question his ‘gas tank’ and if there is doubt there, we’ll make Carwin say his body ‘seized up’.”
I think Carwin,
pretty much laid this question to rest:
How could I have any qualms since Brock was able to come back and beat me? It would have been a different story if Brock would have taken a bunch more unnecessary punishment and got messed up from it."
Green Jacket, Gold Jacket, who gives a shit?
Brock haters are still bent...
All superstars get the calls or in this case the extra time to heal. I’m sure everybody has seen Jordan pushing Byron Russell when he hit the winning shot. Pitchers like Clemens and Maddux and teams like the Lakers all have calls go their way. Just like gorgeous woman out there, superstars gets special treatment also.
This is sad
BE seems so desperate to tear down one of the greatest UFC shows ever, yes in my opinion EVER, that you are now resorting to using comments left on other sites to bolster your opinions. Comments that, by the way, are factually innacurate:
“Lesnar was down for the entire last half of the first round”. < I’m fairly certain I saw Lesnar stand up with a full minute left in round one. But what do I know?
More disturbing, is the basic argument this post is making: Since ref’s have a track record of prematurely stopping fights, then we should be able to hold them to the standard they set for themselves, regardless of whether or not that standard is justified, based on the rules of the contest.
I wonder what everyone would be saying had Lesnar not been able to win in the 2nd and the fight had gone all 5 rounds with Carwin winning? My gut tells me no one would even be mentioning whether or not the right decision was made to let Lesnar continue in the 1st, we would only be hearing about how dominate Carwin is.
The one thing that I find most telling by everyone who thinks the fight should have been stopped is this: I have not heard one person say anything about protecting Lesnar in any of these arguments. A fight is never stopped so one combatant can have a win. It is only stopped to protect one of the participants. If you wish to make a credible argument on why the fight should have been stopped, you must base the reasons around protecting Lesnar and whether or not he endured an excessive amount of punishment/injury due to the fight not being stopped. No one is even attempting to make this argument, which lends more credence to the fact that the right call was made.
It bothers me when people start talking about refs like they work for Zuffa and that there is some sort of coordinated effort between the refs and the promotion to give certain fighters special treatment. The ref doesn’t give a shit about who the star is, their job is to referee the fight. They do not answer to the UFC.
by Polyhedron on Jul 8, 2010 12:20 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
ask Big John McCarthy about that
It’s already established precedent that if the UFC doesn’t like your work in the cage or what you say outside it, that you won’t be reffing UFC bouts.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Less noticed
is the year long absence of Mario Yamasaki. Shit got real with him as well until he reconciled with both the UFC and NSAC. It’s not the isolated Big John incident. There’s a pattern.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jul 8, 2010 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
What’s the deal with Mazzagatti then?
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
Yeah no way it’s just a coincidence that Big John is reffing like every Strikeforce event and not a single UFC event since his fallout with them.
I’ve also noticed that even though he’s pretty much universally considered the best ref Dana has recently been trying to convince the media and his fanboys every chance he gets that Herb Dean (or maybe Rosenthal this week) is the best ref evah.
Herb Dean would have stopped that fight in the first round.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
It seams that big John is only considered the best ref by internet fanboys…so sick of hearing about his “mystic” like team Jackson game planning or Randy coulture’s game planning. Do you really think if it made that much of a difference from one ref to the other, the UFC wouldn’t be glad to have him back no matter what he said? It can’t make that much of a difference or the UFC would be kissing his ass. LET THE MYSTIC GO PLEASE
Big John
gambled with his career and lost. The moment he decided to make money outside the ring, he career was put on hold.
He is on record for saying bad things about a promotion. I wouldn’t want him making decisions in the ring with a jaded eye.
When I was watching the match I thought “I can’t believe he’s not stopping this” once or twice. It just seemed like Brock was resigned to lay there and cover his face, a sure fire way to get a stoppage. But what happened happened and I’m not all that upset about it,even though I was hoping for a Carwin Win.
I also admit that, not being there, Josh potentially saw something in Brock that I didn’t, as I was admittedly admiring those massive hamhocks slamming down, and perhaps not noticing that Brock was fine the whole time.
Yeah, I can’t wait for the rematch though, I think that’s pretty interesting.
Could have been influenced by the overly dramatic commentating
done by Goldberg and Rogan.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
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