Bloody Elbow Judo Chop: Chris Lytle Traps and Taps Matt Brown With "the Lytle"
Chris Lytle isn't one to talk up his submission game, per MMA Junkie:
"Those (submissions) were just kind of luck I guess," Lytle said. "I'm not very good on the ground. I'm a boxer, pure and simple."
...
"If they're going to give me a submission, I'm going to take it," he said. "I tried to do two at once to make sure it worked out, so I was happy with it."
But he's shown throughout his career that he'll happily take those submission wins. 19 of his 29 wins are via submission and from a wide variety of holds.
Since I couldn't find any cool names for the inverted triangle/arm bar combination from side mount that Lytle landed on Brown, and since Lytle also tapped out Jason Gilliam with it at UFC 73, I have decided to name the hold "the Lytle".
There's a long and proud tradition of submission holds being named for the fighter who made them famous. Most well known is the Kimura, named for legendary judoka Masahiko Kimura, who used it to defeat one of the founders of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Hélio Gracie in their epic 1951 bout.
Chris Lytle may never hold a major championship belt, but he's an awesome fighter with a long and storied career -- he fought Lion's Den member Jason Delucia in Pancrase in 1999! -- and I'd love to see him claim a little bit of well-earned immortality in the sport. So remember, next time you see this move pulled off, it's called "the Lytle".
Cole Miller pulled a similar move on Dan Lauzon at UFC 108 -- see the Judo Chop here -- but Miller was going for an arm bar and added the triangle in second. What Chris Lytle does is take a much more methodical approach to this move.
In the full entry BE reader AboveThisFire breaks down the animated gifs from both UFC 73 and UFC 116, with some help from Luke Thomas.
Special thanks to Scott Haber who insisted we do a judo chop on this move and who broke down the key times from both fights for the gif maker, Chris Nelson.
Gifs by Chris Nelson.
Bloody Elbow reader Patrick Tenney (aka AboveThisFire) has kindly broken down Lytle's moves gif by gif. Starting with his victory over Jason Gilliam at UFC 73, our own Luke Thomas has added some additional commentary. Here's Lytle busting out "the Lytle" on Gilliam:
Patrick Tenney: First off we see Lytle controlling the upper body and moving into side control after Gilliam fails to recompose a solid half guard; notice that the left arm is out and past Lytle's hip instead of being dug in and defensive (this is the beginning of that arm being isolated).
Tenney: On the left we see a little bit of luck mixed with Gilliam clearly not identifying what was about to happen to him, Lytle continues to control the far side arm while realizing he has the chance to go for the kill (his left thigh slides under Gilliam's left arm pushing it up while he steps over the head and drags his heel across the back of the head in order to get his leg under. Lytle switches his hips over so he can figure four his legs in the crucifix triangle position while Gilliam reacts late and misses his chance to dig in with that left arm again and possibly save himself from the choke.
Luke Thomas: In the gif above where Lytle steps over the head, watch his right hand because what you'll notice is that he steps over first and then removes the hand. In other words you can't move the hand as it is the place holder UNTIL the new place holder is in place, then you can change place holders. Mike Brown is awesome at that taking the back he'll hold his forearm in where he's about to sink his hooks he'll put the hook in, then remove the hand
Tenney: On the right Gilliam is locked up, Lytle crosses his foot over his knee pit and curls that left leg up to squeeze the triangle while he starts the Americana lock on the far side arm, Gilliamdefends the Americana lock by straightening his arm back out after hipping up.
Thomas: Lytle has to be careful not to allow Gilliam to raise his elbow too high. When Lytle ties up the figure four with his hands he has to keep his hips low while posting off of his head so Gilliam can't turn his base over. Lytle does a pretty good job of that
Tenney: Once that far arm is straightened to defend the Americana, Lytle switches first to a straight armbar and then down to a kimura(typical triple threat style on the arm), not the best angle but it looks like he finishes here with a low kimura or straight armbar while pushing his hips back and putting more pressure on the triangle.
Important to notice in this entire chain is that Lytle keeps his body low to avoid getting his head hooked over and rolled via Gilliams legs (not sure Gilliam would of done it anyhow, but that is a potential defense).
Thomas: I can't see much but unlike an armbar that's hit from mount you don't want to be perfectly perpendicular you want about 20 degrees so it reduces their mobility on their elbow. You'll see Gilliam's arm is closer to his waist than normal.
Now we come to Lytle's second display of "the Lytle" at UFC 116 against Matt Brown. This time all the commentary is by Patrick Tenney:
On the right, Brown flops a defense to a weak guillotine and can't maintain half guard as Lytle passes to mount with a little bit of a can opener style.
On the left we see Lytle take mount and then side control, hopping his leg close and high so Brown can't grab it down for half guard.
(Notice that Lytle passes to Brown's left -- the same side side control as in the previous example, clearly he favors that side.) Lytle positions himself in a scarf hold or kesa gatame style side control controlling the head and positioning his legs forward and his body higher, using his side as the weight on Brown.
On the right, Lytle executes the same general tactic as before, sliding the bottom leg under the arm (which Brown left up and out to be isolated) and then stepping his top leg high and far to the far side of Brown's head before snatching it back and under to the figure four lock.
(Side note: From kesa gatame I prefer controlling the arm via wrist and putting it between my legs and then controlling the wrist again before stepping over, this is because in a pure grappling situation most people aren't going to have their head up and the heel drag along the back of the head to secure the triangle crucifix position is slightly more difficult as the opponent should be more aware, Lytle kind of skips a few fundamental steps because he gets the element of surprise on Brown.)
The weirdest and actually kind of interesting point to make in this gif as well is that Lytle has an arm drag style underhook on Brown's far arm using his shoulder to lock down Brown's elbow while cupping the arm with his to maintain control of it (he's definitely thinking arm attack).
Same execution as previous, he locks the figure four, turns his hips with Brown's bump so he can reapply weight and then starts curling that left leg to apply the pressure; here's where Brown succeeds where Gilliam failed, you can see Brown's left arm is out and angled down so he can relieve pressure from the triangle (the shoulder into his carotid is mitigated slightly) where as Gilliam allowed his arm to stay up and over his own body (a no no, think about how an arm triangle is applied, same general theory for all triangle locks for the most part).
Lytle starts working to control the far arm and goes for either an Americana or straight armbar but has a little trouble pushing Brown's arm down to the mat until he gets his shoulder into it and pressures down on the arm.
Brown thinks he has space to dig a hand in and break the crucifix triangle so he attempts that (this could also be because he feels the arm lock is close and needs to break the triangle so he can roll out or defend the arm lock. What we don't see that I do remember from how the arm is finished by Lytle is that Lytle straightens the arm as if in a straight arm bar but he also applies radial pressure by twisting the wrist/forearm of Brown down in a semi circle while also locking the straight arm bar (this is so he can secure the elbow where he wants while also applying extra pressure on the joints and ligaments due to this radial pressure as well, taking a lot of the power from the arm while also being able to apply the submission, beautiful technique and awareness of body mechanics (that or just heat of the moment luck)).
It's pretty obvious that Lytle is comfortable from side control/kesa gatame and going for the crucifix triangle position is something he enjoys, people fighting him in the future really need to be aware of this position should the fight go to the ground.
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I don't know how this wasn't submission of the night...
Just to get that out of the way…
by Suffocate on Jul 7, 2010 2:02 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Brock
USMC vet. MMA nut.
Sea-Town stay down!
Rousimar Palhares is a dirty fighter.
Pain don't hurt...
Of course, I should have known.
I recognize DW is a great promoter but I honestly hate him sometimes. If there’s ever a case of favoritism giving Brock sub of the night over a sick sub like this is it.
I find if the main event participants get a KO or sub they very often get the award just because their fight was the most hyped.
I think Brock got it for the shock value, kind of like when Cro Cop won it.
I am sure Chris got taken care of with a backstage check.
If he did...
…it was for a fraction of $75K
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 7, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to be confrontational, but how would you know?
A Forbes article from a few years back had the Fertitta’s writing Babalu a six-digit ‘locker room’ bonus after his fight with Chuck. GSP reportedly got a half-million undisclosed bonus when he beat Hughes the first time. Joe Lauzon once mentioned in an interview that he pulled down $70K for a fight where his disclosed pay was listed $10K+ $10K.
I know I have no clue what the size or scope of Lytle’s bonus is. Do you?
by Steve4192 on Jul 7, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I am preparing an article on this subject and have talked to a ton of fighters and agents. I feel better than ever that I have a good take on the locker room bonus. If Lytle got a bonus anywhere near the Sub of the Night bonus, it would be very unusual.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 7, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I've heard of some very solid bonuses being received from the recipients themselves
and I’m interested to see what you’ve found.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jul 7, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
me too.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
by Nightwhistler on Jul 7, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
"The Lytle"
I love it….off to the gym to roll, gotta get it down.
USMC vet. MMA nut.
Sea-Town stay down!
Rousimar Palhares is a dirty fighter.
Pain don't hurt...
FYI
This is extremely close to the reverse-triangle/straight-armbar that Jean-Jaques Machado and Braulio Estima use, the only difference being that they would usually hit it from a guard setup, instead of on top.
JJ Machado’s “Black Belt Techniques” shows it broken down in detail, and I’m sure there are vids of Estima teaching it on YouTube.
Check this thread and the comments out: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/1/8/1233642/bloody-elbow-judo-chop-cole
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jul 7, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Estima basically did his last seminar tour on this triangle from guard.
I’m not sure “the Lytle” is going to stick. But then again, there were a lot of sheep saying “aokiplata” for a while, too, so who knows.
I still think Aokiplata
is a perfectly fitting name for a mounted gogoplata.
Names are fungible, may the best and easiest to use win.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
that's somewhat valid if you're trying to practice martial arts
I’m trying to understand it and document it. A taxonomy is essential for my purposes.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Jason von flue...ugh
let’s not and say we did…
USMC vet. MMA nut.
Sea-Town stay down!
Rousimar Palhares is a dirty fighter.
Pain don't hurt...
The Von Flue choke is awesome.
First time I saw that was WEC 7 and nobody knew what the hell happened. Then he came back and did it again at WEC 8 and the announcers recognized the position but still had no idea how he was choking guys out with it. Then he showed up in the UFC and pulled it off AGAIN and Joe & Goldy had no idea.
I will always love Jason Von Flue for bringing the ‘what the fuck was that?’ factor to so many MMA shows I have watched. It’s always cool to see a guy setting up a move and realize that only a handful of people in the building know what is coming next.
Are you saying no one should get caught in it or no one should tap once they are caught in it because it is not effective?
I can buy the former, but the latter would just result in you going to sleep. Almost every guy he used it on in his pre-UFC career had no idea that it was a submission and did not tap. He put every last one of them to sleep.
The Von Flue choke is fine, it’s terrific to pull out when someone executes a sloppy guillotine, it’s also surprising how fast people can go to sleep from it (see video: Ryan Hall accidentally getting put out by it during a seminar). I use it every so often if I can get my base up high in a guillotine but it’s definitely not a move you want to rely on or go for considering you’re in a precarious position yourself.
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jul 8, 2010 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Why would a skilled opponent hold a guillotine from the bottom, when you’re already sideways and pressing your shoulder into the chin/neck? The guillotine won’t work and they should be scrambling to regain guard or get out and away.
Ribbit.
Von Flue choke can be applied from within the guard or half guard with posture and tripoding up.
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jul 12, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Just saw the Von Flue recently
with Eric Schambari using it to tap Luke Zachrich at one of the Bellator events.
Rec this thread.
USMC vet. MMA nut.
Sea-Town stay down!
Rousimar Palhares is a dirty fighter.
Pain don't hurt...
Matt Brown is hoping that Lytle didn’t eat a bean burrito before the fight in that first picture.
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
I hear
Sokoudjou’s ass smells nice.
USMC vet. MMA nut.
Sea-Town stay down!
Rousimar Palhares is a dirty fighter.
Pain don't hurt...
Amazing Chop!!!
This move really blows me away. Much like how I used to view Matt Hughes putting everyone in that crucifix in order to give people the one handed beat down, it seems to simple and effective it’s amazing everyone doesn’t do this.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
Such a sweet submission.
If Lytle hasn’t been practicing that, than he’s one hell of a skilled grappler, because you need very smart positioning to get the inverted triangle in to place.
Also
On the right, Lytle executes the same general tactic as before, sliding the bottom leg under the arm (which Brown left up and out to be isolated) and then stepping his top leg high and far to the far side of Brown’s head before snatching it back and under to the figure four lock.
It should be noted also that in the same gif (#3 of Brown fight) Lytle is using punches to force Brown to cover his face: This also forces Brown’s arm to come up further across the face and allows Lytle to cinch the triangle deeper.
(And obviously Lytle has been practicing this. This isn’t a move that falls into your lap like a gift. That whole “I dunno what subs are” act is silly at this point. He’s hit some really)tricky ones.
My theory is that Lytle actually prefers the ground fight, he just tries to trick people with reverse psychology into thinking he’s a mindless brawler.
Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by Patrick Tenney on Jul 7, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a great observation
and one that is so critical to getting his leg over the head.
If you think about it, the “placeholder” is the same concept BJ Penn used to submit Jens Pulver in their rematch on the TUF final (can’t remember which TUF episode that was). Once Penn got Pulver’s back, he used his left arm to hold Pulver’s left arm down (“placeholder #1”). Then with his left leg, he sprung it over his left arm (“placeholder #2”) pinning Pulver’s left arm down leaving him defenseless against the choke.
by KenCanFightBear on Jul 7, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW
Judo Chops are definitely the best thing about this site. They really open your eyes to the subtleties that make MMA so great.
I don’t post often but read the articles everyday and I must say that the regulars who post often are friggin hilarious.
by KenCanFightBear on Jul 7, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn
This is well put together article. I’m requesting the Mark Coleman neck crank for the next Judo Chop.
Lemonade was a popular drink, and it still is. I get more stunts and props than Bruce Willis- Guru
It is NOT "The Lyltle"...
as my non-training friend I was watching the fights named it…
“The T-Bangle”
a combination triangle and t-bag.
I about fell down laughing!
I use this position all the time and I freakin love it. Your opponent commonly doesn’t realize what’s happening until it is to late.
by BJJDenver on Jul 7, 2010 2:45 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
LOL!
You almost made my diet coke come out of my nose from reading that!
by KenCanFightBear on Jul 7, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
He did this same submission, though from his back not from mount, a long time ago. Rerverse triangle attack on the free arm. It was some promotion in Florida. Long time ago.
ok. not a reverse triangle, but still pretty similar… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPRjoN_n7Yk
by penxv on Jul 7, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It almost makes me sad
I could start training yesterday and I’m not going to be in a position to break down guys legitimately for yeeeeeeeears.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
that's not really true.
iv been training for about 12 months, and ican break down most things on the 2nd time through, while i am watching i notice 80% of what is going on.
you start to notice the small details, because it’s the small details that take most of the energy, time and in the end most likley the reason you will tap 1000 times before your a blue belt. seeing how better grapplers deal with the small details then trying them out on the mat is the best way to learn.
I'm convinced
that Lytle would beat Thiago Alves in a rematch. They need to set that fight up if Alves loses to Fitch.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
that's a very interesting match
Lytle was def holding his own up until the cut.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
If Lytle keeps winning the way he is,
I don’t see any reason why they shouldn’t make that fight.
Definitely a FOTN candidate just by reputations alone.
by KenCanFightBear on Jul 7, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
It's looking like Lytle will definitely
be on his hometown card at 119 in September, and I’d love to see them give him Paulo Thiago or Kampmann.
I don't think they want to put him in fights that he could win
that would make him a contender. I just don’t think they want to push him towards the top. I would also love a fight against Thiago or Kampmann but I’m not sure they would do it. He is likely always going to be, to borrow a wrestling term, a mid-carder.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
It just sucks that
whenever Lytle starts to gain some momentum, he seems to get derailed by a loss to a not-so-great fighter (the Marcus Davis loss).
I’m not calling this “The Lytle”, it’s just ridiculous. It’s been done many times before and in bigger moments.
Better BJJ practicioners than I call that move the Pregnant Yak, the ones I train with anyways
"Ten more seconds is all I ever ask. That's the good thing I learned about being KO'd twice. You don't see it coming -it's like death- you don't plan for it so don't wait for it. So many people are afraid of getting Ko'd that their hands stay home, but not me. I got to go out there and shoot the lights out and fall down" Jens Pulver
Head posting
Love these. Great job once again, Nate. However, I think you also forgot that when he swings his leg over the head to get the reverse triangle, Lytle uses his head to post and prevent the roll out. He does it less in the Brown fight, but it’s something that’s fundamental to maintaining a solid pressure game from the top.
by LegalizeNYMMANow on Jul 7, 2010 8:26 PM EDT reply actions
Lytle is really impressing me with his ground
Like anyone, Im a fan of the chris lytle who swings from his hips, and makes every fight into a slugfest. But lately his slick submissions have been so exciting to watch, and makes it another reason why he is so popular.
This guy has every like-able factor… Exciting standup, technical BJJ, seasoned veteran, and an interesting home life( firefighter and father). The UFC should definitely promote him more… and I cant wait to see what is next for him.
Agreed
Chris Lytle is today’s Don Frye. He brings it every fucking time. And it’s not to win, but to fight. A concept that Frye emboldened during his Pride days. In my opinion, I remember an interview with Lytle saying how after the Serra fight, he just started going into matches just to fight and not try to eke out a win. Don Frye and Dan Severn have been saying that more and more fighters need to do that for years. Sure, he runs the risk of losing to some lesser competition, but at least he rests at night knowing that he tried to do it his way. Lytle has great potential in all respects, but more importantly, that the UFC knows that he will always bring a good fight to the show.
Also, the comparison to Frye is more than apt. Both men show grit, a great potential on the feet and on the ground, and they don’t mind sliding down poles. It would be great to get these men together and share a bottle of tequila. Chris Lytle is proudly running down the road that Don Frye has laid the bricks for. All he needs to do is grow a magnificent moustache.
by LegalizeNYMMANow on Jul 8, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
The swing your leg over opponents head position
is called The Howdy.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jul 8, 2010 4:25 AM EDT reply actions
THIS IS MY SUBMISSION OF THE NIGHT!
CHRIS LYTLE is one of my favorite fighters!
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
This position is pretty awesome from cross side top. The advanced guys at my gym do this to me all the time and I have yet to figure it out and keep forgetting to ask my coach. If you defend the triangle, you’re opening yourself up for the kimura. If you defend the kimura, you’re opening yourself up for the triangle. It really sucks to be stuck there. Not to mention the fact that your whole mid section is completely undefended from strikes.
When I was watching this live, I turned to my buddy and told him to watch for the body shots. They hurt like hell from this position since your midsection is completely exposed. I can’t find a gif, but Lytle nailed miller in the body with a brutal bodyshot that caused miller to actually buck instinctively. Like I said, this position is awesome if you can get to it.

by 





Tenney: Once that far arm is straightened to defend the 

On the right, Lytle executes the same general tactic as before, sliding the bottom leg under the arm (which Brown left up and out to be isolated) and then stepping his top leg high and far to the far side of Brown's head before snatching it back and under to the figure four lock.























