Josh Thomson Says Brock Lesnar Has a "Puncher's Chance" Against Cain Velasquez
by Nick Thomas on Jul 6, 2010 10:23 AM EDT
in MMA News
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According to Josh Thomson on facebook:
"Cain is wrestling every day with this years NCAA Div 1 national champ from MO. who is about 280lbs and let me tell you that Cain coming off a knee surgery 4wks ago is getting takedowns just fine as well as not losing any. Cain is a better wrestler/striker/MMA fighter than Brock but like you said, Brock is bigger with a huge punch. That is the only chance I give Brock though is a punchers chance cuz I don’t see him holding Cain down "IF" he can get the takedown."
"Bobby Lashley couldn’t and cant take Cain down and he's leaps and bounds a better wrestler than Brock as well as just as big so don’t count Cain out in the wrestling just yet."
Thomson trains at the same gym as Cain Velasquez at American Kickboxing Academy in San Jose.
HT: steverattlesnake.com
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Bobby Lashley is not BROCKLESNAR!!!!
Go get that bread, Kimbo Slice. - Mike Fagan
by SouthAlaBamaRampage on Jul 6, 2010 10:06 AM EDT reply actions
I was getting amped up about the fight until Thompson said that about Lashley’s wrestling… suddenly it became clear Josh Thompson has no concept of the quality of wrestling (or the fact that Brock is about 40lbs heavier) and everything he’d said up to that point was utter bullshit.
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
by Stanlee on Jul 6, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
You realize
How accomplished a wrestler Bobby Lashley was right?
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 6, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I always heard NAIA qualifications are a joke compared to NCAA championship level qualifications.
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
As an older timer tells me. “NAIA wrestling is full of street thugs and ex cons”
Most people wrestling NAIA if they dont have grads to get into a D-1 college.
Lesnar start out at NJCAA which is about the same level of education requirements as NAIA
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
This is not the extent of Lashley’s accomplishments. Like King Mo, he made a run at the Olympic team post-college. Lashley is a real wrestler.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 6, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Did he make the Olympic team? I could try out for the team right now if I wanted to. A lot of guys try out, very few make it.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Another Olympic tryout: Randy Couture. And no, you couldn’t try out if you wanted to. This isn’t the Math Olympiad.
Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)
by ludakrish on Jul 6, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
hahahaha
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jul 6, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
His point was that your comment was stupid. You have to qualify to try out for the Olympic squads, and it’s an honor to be able to do so. Just like Abu Dhabi, it’s invitation only. And no, there aren’t a lot of guys who try out. Again, it’s by invitation only.
"The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world..."
What tournament did Lashey wrestle in to qualify for the Olympic team trails?
I was being sarcastic in saying that I could try out right now. Anyone can claim they are trying out for the Team. The qualifying tournament is the start of making the team and ANYONE CAN ENTER these open tournaments. I wouldnt go near one b/c I like my body being in one peace but people should not say trying out for the Olympics like it means a ton unless they get really close to making the team.
So my question still stands did he ever make a team or even come close?
I can only find that he got hurt in 2003 in training and gave up on his dream.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to pimp my own stuff....
….but it is an interesting story.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 6, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nice interview. Crazy story with his Knee.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
couture made the team as an alternate though
by DeadBodyCircus on Jul 6, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
At what weight? He wrestled in college a lot lighter than he is now.
http://www.instrength.com
by Tim Burke on Jul 6, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Please elaborate on that Olympic run. It wouldn’t be similar to the type of credentials people were citing for Vera, which consisted of him once finishing 3rd in a 4 man national tourney would it?
by Hardcharger on Jul 6, 2010 11:15 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bobby finished sixth in the 2002 National Championships at 96 kg/211.5 pounds. He won a silver medal at the World Military Games. He was described as an “exciting talent” when an injury derailed his run at the 2004 Olympics and he went to the WWE instead.
He was a real wrestler.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 6, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Do you know if he was cutting a lot of weight then to make 96kg back then? It seems to me that walking around at 250 (well more than his frame can seemingly handle) with a bum knee doesn’t seem like the brightest idea for his MMA career. Or for his wrestling skills in particular.
http://www.instrength.com
Found the results. Mark Munoz was also in this tourney and finished 7th.
2002 U.S. Senior National Championships
Las Vegas, NV
April 25, 2002
96 kg/211.5 lbs.
1st – Tim Hartung, Minneapolis, Minn. (Minnesota Storm) dec. Chad Lamer, Iowa City, Iowa (Hawkeye WC), 4-2
3rd – Dean Morrison, Ithaca, N.Y. (New York AC) dec. Raphael Davis, Bakersfield, Calif. (Dave Schultz WC), 6-0
5th -Nick Preston, Columbus, Ohio (Ohio International) won by inj. dft. over Franklin Lashley, Colorado Springs, Colo. (U.S. Army)
7th – Mark Munoz, Stillwater, Okla. (Gator WC) won by inj. dft. over Jon Trenge, Orefield, Pa. (New York AC)
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Raphael Davis = Bellator LHW who ought to be in SF or UFC. I didn’t know he was in contention for a national wrestling title though.
This was the Senior open. The team trials were 2 months later.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Did he actually wrestle in the challengers tournament (or whatever it’s called)? Or was he just entering freestyle tournaments in hopes of earning one of the wildcard slots?
by The Darkness on Jul 6, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Brock probably would have been able to make the olympic team if he wanted to stay with am. wrestling; but he needed to start making money. Recognize.
"Is Brock Lesnar gonna have to choke a bitch?"
No one on the amateur wrestling scene expected Brock to make a play for the Olympics. His technique wasn’t considered strong enough. That doesn’t diminish his collegiate career at all.
Of course, it was well known he was signing with the WWE before he graduated.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 6, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Nobody? Brock lost by 1 point to Stephen Neal in the 1999 ncaa finals. Neal went on to win the freestyle Worlds that year. And that was Brocks first year at Minnesota. If he wasn’t going to make the Olympic team it was only because the HW division was incredible in the US at that time with him, Neal, and Kerry McCoy.
Freestyle is a different game.
Some of that talk may have been related to his decision to go to the WWE, which amateur people HATE. It certainly would have been interesting to see.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 6, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Freestyle is a different game year now days. They keep changing the rules and how they score matches. It makes it hard to tell who is better at which style. 2000 freestyle is a different animal than what King Mo and Cromier wrestled.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course its different, bit just stating that doesn’t begin to justify the statement that Lesnar wasn’t thought of as a possible factor. His game on the feet was good. Nobody knows how he would do in the par terre position. Many, including Jeff Blatnick consider folkstyle to be a superior style to freestyle.
by Hardcharger on Jul 6, 2010 12:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not getting all these little differences in the wrestling world sometimes.
I know Brock was a champ at NCAA Div 1 in college in the Big Ten; which is supposed to be at the top level in college right? And he went like 106-5, which sounds like a pretty damn good wrestler.
Now I get that from there, making the olympic team and winning medals in olympics is a step up obviously. And I also get how Div 2 and NAIA might be considered a step below Div 1. But what are you all getting at with Brock not being that good at wrestling despite his Div 1 status and record and what’s up with the freestyle talk?
"Is Brock Lesnar gonna have to choke a bitch?"
Brock Lesnar is great at wrestling. But collegiate wrestling is folkstyle wrestling and unique to the United States.
Internationally, grapplers compete in freestyle wrestling. Although many of the rules are the same, the scoring emphasizes different techniques. Scholastic style wrestling is about dominance. Takedowns are all scored equally and there is an emphasis on not being controlled on the mat.
Freestyle wrestling rewards more nuanced and high skill level technique. There is also little incentive to battle on the mat, besides making sure not to get rolled or pinned.
So, really it’s the same game, just a completely different scoring mechanism. Not sure if this helped or confused the issue. This is probably an issue for a post down the road.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 6, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d be more interested in hearing what someone like Kurt Angle would have to say about Brock’s skill in this area, than our guessing. Supposedly they would have straight wrestling contests for the hell of it just b/c they thought it was fun. Anybody ever hear of the results of those or what Angle had to say about him?
"Is Brock Lesnar gonna have to choke a bitch?"
Kurt had his way with brock according to Jim Ross and Kurt Angle
I heard the interviews on the bubba the love sponge show.
Kurt Angle might be a little full of it sometimes, but hard to not believe JR
"Is Brock Lesnar gonna have to choke a bitch?"
Kurt Angle has true world class wrestling. I would hope he would have his way with Brock.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
...
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 6, 2010 10:10 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
A team-mate giving props to a team-mate and exaggerating?
Shocking.
by shotokai_ on Jul 6, 2010 10:13 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Really....
Someone should do their research before saying Bobby Lashley is leaps and bounds a better wrestler than Brock.
Sounds like Nick and Nate need to get a hold of whatever Thompson is smoking to compare Lashly to Brock.
*thomson
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jul 6, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Lol at lashley being a better wrestler then Brock.
Lashley doesn’t have bricks speed or athleticism or explosiveness basically as was stated before hes not BROCKLESNAR!!!!!!!!!
"Golden horse Shoe removal master"!!!!!
by lesnarhypetrain on Jul 6, 2010 10:14 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Also better wrestlers than Brock:
Stone Cold.
The Rock.
Akeem the African Dream.
Dino Bravo.
The Brooklyn Brawler.
by TMadeBurner on Jul 6, 2010 10:14 AM EDT reply actions 8 recs
Akeem the dream, that is old school!
Twitter @i_c_u_hater
http://dreamthemez.wordpress.com
http://dreamthemez.unfilteredmma.com
http://fightlife.unfilteredmma.com
by Thats It For you! on Jul 6, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
As a kid growing up in Sweden early 90’s, he was my first wrestling action figure!
Hell, might as well throw in a picture while we’re at it:
by Horselover Fat on Jul 6, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude
Dino Bravo did a push-up with Earthquake on his back.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jul 6, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
dude got drive-by’d while watching hockey on his couch. that’s gangsta
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jul 6, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Wiki says up to 17 gunshot wounds. Thats quite the drive-by
How did I end up on this bandwagon and why does everything say property of Chael Sonnen?
It wasn't a drive-by
He got executed.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 6, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
same difference
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jul 7, 2010 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions
You think 16 woulda killed the man who pushupped earthquake? neither did they.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jul 7, 2010 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions
You know
The Rock Machine was behind it you just know
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jul 7, 2010 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions
- Brock’s
"Golden horse Shoe removal master"!!!!!
by lesnarhypetrain on Jul 6, 2010 10:15 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I understand a teammate trying to hype another teammate, but seriously josh bobby lashely??
"Golden horse Shoe removal master"!!!!!
by lesnarhypetrain on Jul 6, 2010 10:17 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Who is the 280 guy he is talking about?
I’m not resting until I’m officially Anderson Silva status.- Jon "Bones" Jones
Maybe Mark Ellis who was the NCAA champ from MO two years ago. He took 6th last year at heavy weight as a senior and did not look that good.
Josh Thomson sounds like a fool who doesn’t know much about wrestling.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
herschel in a fat suit
How you expect to run with the wolves come night when you spend all day sparring with the puppies - Omar Little
by The Omaplatapus on Jul 6, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought Lesnar had the best ncaa wrestler like Cole konrad et.
"Golden horse Shoe removal master"!!!!!
by lesnarhypetrain on Jul 6, 2010 10:19 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think velasquez should follow The Edgar game plan against brock get in pepper with shots get out don’t give him a chance to put tou on your back
"Golden horse Shoe removal master"!!!!!
by lesnarhypetrain on Jul 6, 2010 10:21 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think Cain's best bet is to go for the takedown himself.
Lesnar has a very fast shot and a lot of power, if they engage in a striking match Lesnar will score takedowns. If cain dicides to shoot for takedowns and can land a couple, I think he could do some damage.
Maybe but I don’t see Cain getting many takedowns but if nothing else he culd just use it to throw Lesnar off I believe If carwin had done that gone for the takedown Lesnar would have dropped his hands and he could have hit wth with a more clean right and maybe have actually knocked him out
"Golden horse Shoe removal master"!!!!!
by lesnarhypetrain on Jul 6, 2010 10:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Isn’t Daniel Cormier still training at AKA? Wouldn’t he be the logical choice to say “If this guy cannot take Cain down, Brock sure can’t either.”
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
Getting a takedown just wrestling is way different than getting one in mma.
Also who knows how tired people are when they get these take downs. I cant wait for this fight but lets hope the fight is better than the shit talking.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Precisely
Takedowns in MMA are way different than in wrestling, particularly in how you set them up.
Watch GSP, in addition to his quickness and peerless ability to explode, when fighting guys with decent or better TDD, he uses an array of feints and set-up moves, that is why his takedowns are all but unstoppable.
This is also why Sonnen was actually right about GSP not being an olympic-level wrestler, despite being the best MMA wrestler on the planet.
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 6, 2010 11:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
I’m not counting Cain out in the wrestling dept, but definitely not becuase of Thomson’s hyperbole.
Cain hung tough with and even managed to beat Konrad once in college (although he also lost a couple times if memory serves me correctly); Brock’s wrestling doesn’t look that sharp to me. I can see him having trouble getting CV to the ground. Still, it will be interesting to see whether CV’s cardio will hold up if Brock gets on top of him. Unlike Carwin, I believe CV was known for his cardio even as a wrestler in college, which makes me slightly more inclined to believe his camp’s hype about his cardio, than I am, for instance, to believe Carwin’s camp.
Cain is know for having sick cardio. Having good cardio only goes so far.
Cain really got screwed in his last match vs Konrad, but that is wrestling for you.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
ftr
stuffing Lashely takedowns IS impressive
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jul 6, 2010 10:25 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
So true — the only other person I recall Lashley’s having trouble taking down was Clay Guida’s brother, who is of course one of the most underrated and greatest MMA wrestlers of all time:)
by The Darkness on Jul 6, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
lolololol
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jul 6, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't see it
Lesnar’s mma wrestling is better then Cain’s. He is leaps and bounds above him in explosiveness and strength. As long as he takes the fight to the ground Cain has a very slim chance in my opinion. I haven’t seen a Cain fight yet where I said to myself- that guy has the skills to beat Lesnar. I just don’t see it.
Root for the home team jack ass
by KING FEDOR on Jul 6, 2010 10:35 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
erm...no
cain’s wrestling in mma > brock’s
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jul 6, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Which fights of Cain should we reference to see this superior MMA wrestling? Stojnic? Kongo?
by Hardcharger on Jul 6, 2010 11:17 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Just what I was thinking.
Easy to say that Cain’s wrestling > Brock’s when you’re not going to offer any explanation.
I have accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as my personal Heavyweight Champion!
Baptized in Coors Light and Jack's Links jerky!!!
Dressed in my heavenly DeathClutch robes!!!
by Worldisart on Jul 6, 2010 11:24 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
obvious matters
don’t need explanations
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jul 7, 2010 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I haven’t seen a Cain fight yet where I said to myself- that guy has the skills to beat Lesnar. I just don’t see it.
Me either. That said I do think he has a chance if he can impose his wrestling. I have more faith in Cain beating Brock than JDS doing any damage though. I am a big JDS fn, but we haven’t seen how he handles a big wrestler and unless he beats one I am not will to guess that he can.
That's why Brock was 0-3 on TDs vs.
Carwin right?
Bah Gawd! He’s so explosive (extreme sarcasm intended)
He was 0-3 against another world class wrestler. Let me preface this with the fact that I am no fan of Brock’s but can you imagine what Brock would do to Kongo? I don’t think Kongo gets destroyed in lest then a round.
Root for the home team jack ass
by KING FEDOR on Jul 6, 2010 11:50 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
- don’t
Root for the home team jack ass
by KING FEDOR on Jul 6, 2010 11:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
World class is the worst and I blame Rogan for it. Carwin is not, and has never been, a “world class” wrestler. He was a good amateur wrestler more than a decade ago.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 6, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
So how do we know if people are world class in anything?
I go crazy when Rogan talks about guys and what they have done in wrestling. I am sure they do the same thing for other areas of mma.
World class in any mma discipline a really rare thing in mma.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
We know someone is world class when they have competed successfully internationally. Ben Askren, Daniel Cormier, Randy Couture, Mark Coleman.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 6, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Is this sarcasm?
He was 1 for 4, and the 1 takedown led to the end of the fight.
http://www.instrength.com
Cain, on the other hand, does not have a puncher's chance
He lacks the kind of power Carwin has to really put Lesnar in danger on the feet, and must instead outwork him for a number of rounds. This means he really doesn’t have much margin for error, and must successfully integrate his kickboxing and defensive wrestling – something we haven’t seen since he was beating up on such wrestling luminaries as Kongo, Rothwell, and the empty husk formerly known as Noguiera.
Cain’s lack of power (I attribute the Nog KO to Nog being shot, mostly) means that Lesnar can go straight at him while Cain has to be careful. It’s a lot harder to stuff a takedown when you’re trying to box and the wrestler doesn’t have to respect your power.
Cain’s good, and quick, and has better technical striking and great wrestling, but he NEEDS to put all of those together successfully for 4 or 5 rounds to beat Lesnar.
To me the real question is
Can Cain get out from under Brock if he gets pinned?
Hu?
“Punchers chance” , sure if you are taking about Cain. The big issue all HW contenders have with a guy like Brock is his athleticism. When Brock faces a guy as big or strong as him (like a Carwin) they will burn out quicker and won’t be able to go deeper into fights and maintain that little edge they may have on him (as shown Saturday). When it come to a guy like Cain, he may be able to go deeper into a fight, but because he is smaller than Brock (like a Randy Couture) he will eventually get taken over by Brocks ground and pound and just get worn out by his size.
Every fighter has a “punchers chance”, but you have to be real about Brock. He just took a pounding by one of the hardest hitters in MMA and got up and finished the 1st round on his feet and then submitted him at the start of the 2nd. BROCK HAS A CHIN (as shown in the Couture and Carwin fights) so Cain better have something more in his bag than his fists, because he won’t out wrestle a guy that is better than him at wrestling and has 30-40 pounds on him at the time of the fight.
It's funny how many people....
shit on Bobby Lashley’s skills as a fighter
His wrestling creds alone make him one of the best wrestling based fighters in all MMA.
I blame Scott Cocker for the level of competition he’s had so far in Strikeforce. I’d think he’d do a lot better then he is if he’d only the chance to prove himself.
Anyways, in saying that, I think Cain has just a good a chance of beating Brock as anyone….
And sorry to everyone that thinks otherwise but I’m still not convinced that Brock has any form of chin.
That ref could have called the fight right then and there when Carwin was pounding on Brock for a good 30-50 seconds when Brock was “rabbiting” up….
That fight in that first round could have gone either way as far as I’m concerned
What creds? A 2 time NAIA champ at 177 pounds (yes, 177) and a supposed run at the Olympics?
http://www.instrength.com
I have only found that he was going to try out of the Oylmic team and was hurt in training.
People throw out wrestling credintial with out knowing what they mean and how good people really were for that time period. Being a NAIA champ is like winning a single A baseball title….
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Those are better credentials than GSP owns...
Wrestling ability now and then are very different things.
I don’t really have any imput one way or another, but MMA wrestling is different than college wrestling and what you could do then and now are not equal either.
by truck on Jul 6, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed 100% that MMA wrestling is way different. That is why GSP can dominate the WW division with his wrestling. I know a lot of guys that are good or great wrestlers but are horrible at MMA. Wrestling is just a good base to have when trying to be a fighter.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Blaming Coker for Lashley's opponents?
Blame Bobby. Search Lashley quotes on this site and you’ll learn a lot about Lashley’s lack of urgency in stepping up in competition. Bobby Lashley is in MMA strictly for the money.
I have accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as my personal Heavyweight Champion!
Baptized in Coors Light and Jack's Links jerky!!!
Dressed in my heavenly DeathClutch robes!!!
by Worldisart on Jul 6, 2010 11:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I've read some of Lashley's comments
I think (at least to me) that Bobby’s in this for the money. He wants the big pay day fights, right now… He wants to fight Fedor… He wants to fight Overeem.
I don’t think he understand that he has to work his way up.
Instead of Coker (let’s be honest) babying him, he should let him know that he has to earn his fights. And because Coker doesn’t, what good is Bobby to the organization?
Not much
by devious1 on Jul 6, 2010 12:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And sorry to everyone that thinks otherwise but I’m still not convinced that Brock has any form of chin.
So being the only person to make it out of the first round with Shane Carwin, arguably the hardest hitter in MMA, after taking a helluva beating is not enough to prove he has a chin? What does he have to do, get hit with a bat?
But if you are stupid, you will be beaten with a stick - Proverbs 10:13
read the rest of my comment...
Rosenthall could have called the fight right then after Brock did his best impersonation of the running man, and started to curl up in a fetal position…
I’m sure both you and I have seen refs call things for less….
After Brock had several moments of inactivity, the ref I think would have been just as justified for ending the match
by devious1 on Jul 6, 2010 1:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh, I definitely agree that fights have been called for much less. Apparently Rosenthal went in to the locker rooms beforehand and said he would give either guy three chances to respond (Lesnar got active after two), and seeing as it was a title fight of that magnitude, there was no way in hell Josh was going to risk a premature stoppage.
But just because a fight would have been stopped, doesn’t mean it should have been.
But if you are stupid, you will be beaten with a stick - Proverbs 10:13
You know what the best part of this arguement is?
We will find out who’s the better fighter because they’re going to fight. Considering how AWFUL the division was a few years ago this is pretty great right now.
“Bobby Lashley couldn’t and cant take Cain down and he’s leaps and bounds a better wrestler than Brock”
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Jul 6, 2010 11:00 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
If Brock gets on top of Cain...
It’s almost a forgone conclusion how that fights going to end..
Cain has great cardio.. but he hasn’t been put in against a guy with similar wrestling credentials that’s also stronger than him..
People forget just how strong Lensar is.. I don’t think he’ll worry about Cain’s hands like he was Carwins.. Which means the fight may play out like the Couture fight (for Brock). I’m not dismissing Cain’s chances at victory, just that you can’t compare Cain vs. Carwins striking power.. There is no argument.. Carwin>Cain in power, strength, and striking..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
7-3-10
BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!
you think cain cant get up? Mir even got up. I dont know… I think it’s going to take alot more than 1 even 2 takedowns to finish Cain. He’s gonna have to hurt him on the feet or blanket him on top for a few rounds hoping cain gets tired.
No..
I’m not saying Cain can’t get up from underneath..
I’m not saying Cain has no chance at all to win either..
I’m merely stating the obvious though.. Lesnar’s top game is about as concrete as GSPs.. If, he gets you down, you pretty much are going to stay down for the majority of that round. Can you get up ?? Sure.. But it’s going to require a lot of physical work to do so..
Lesnar’s weight combined with his strength are what makes his top game so heavy and baring.. His base is really wide and his strength for control is pretty much second to none, thus far…
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
7-3-10
BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!
by MMAuthority on Jul 6, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly
If he gets solid top control on Cain, he is not getting out unless Lesnar does something stupid.
And for all of Cain’s cardio, the lactic acid build-up from trying to escape from under a guy that big, and with such a great base, will drain him.
I actually like all of the Cain build-up, I’m hoping it keeps the odds down to a reasonable level…
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 6, 2010 11:41 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
As a GSP fan boy I have to say . . .
it’s not at all obvious that Lesnar’s top game is as “concrete as GSP[’]s”. GSP is a Renzo Gracie black belt and has been seriously training his BJJ for a number of years now and has outclassed and outgrappled some of the best MMA grapplers around at WW. Lesnar has been seriously training his BJJ / catch wrestling for only a couple years at most and managed to (impressively) bludgeon Mir and to submit a completely gassed Carwin. He couldn’t hold Couture down. Before we crown Lesnar the next ADCC absolute champ, let’s see how he does against a powerful guy who’s not going to wilt in the second round. CV also won the no gi blue belt world championship, so he’s no slouch on the ground — this is to say, if Brock crushes CV on the ground, I’ll be more inclined to say something like Lesnar’s top game is as concrete as GSP’s (although I still wouldn’t go that far).
by The Darkness on Jul 6, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think Brock’s submission of Carwin is an early sign of how dangerous he is going to continue to be if he gets top control. He doesn’t need to be as good or diverse as GSP in the top control submission game. With a handful of submissions that cater to his strengths, like the arm triangle, he can become very very dangerous.
Lesnar has had good top control in what 4 fights total? Lets hold the comparison to GSP just a little bit now.
We dont even know if Lesnar can take Cain down let alone hold him down and do damage to him. He took down a worn out and tired Carwin so that shows us nothing. He could not finish a badly hurt Herring. Mir was not trying to get off the bottom that hard. Randy showed that a decent wrestler could counter lesnar’s take downs and so did Carwin.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
First..
I’m not saying one is better than the other..
I used the reference as an analogy to compare their styles.. They enjoy the top control and the majority of their fights take place with them in those positions..
In saying it’s about a concrete is just saying that Lesnar’s game plan is to take it there and if he gets it there, he’s going to be a heavy favorite to win the fight because he knows how to use it to his advantage..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
7-3-10
BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!
GSP has gotten and kept top control over and over again. We dont know if lesnar could do that to someone with very good take down D and that doesnt punch them self out. The more I think about the more I like Cain in a stand up war with lesnar. Heck maybe Cain takes down Lesnar now that would be interesting.
His strategy of letting Carwin punch him self out worked this time but I wouldn’t keep doing that.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
In defense..
I’d wager that was never Lesnar’s “strategy.”
It was more of a reaction to the situation than a “game plan.”
lol
All I’m saying is you can’t compare the Carwin fight and apply it to Lesnar’s fight with Cain.. You can argue about credentials, this, that, and the other..
But what we do know is that Lesnar is without question the bigger and stronger guy here. We also know he has equal technical wrestling knowledge as Cain.. It’s the age old saying..
When two guys are equal in talent, the logical choice is to pick the bigger guy.. There is a reason for weight classes and strength is a big part of the dynamic in this fight.. Cain is a great wrestler, very good cardio.. I’m not dismissing him in the least bit..
I’m just stating the obvious here.. Lesnar is strong enough to hold 240 lbs men down and control them. What we don’t know is if Cain is equally as strong to do that to Brock ??
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
7-3-10
BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!
We dont know if Lesnar can take Cain down at all…. Konrad could not take him down and beat Cain with some horrible refing. What we do know is that Cain has shown better stand up and kicks than lesnar. Cain has some good take downs and can scramble on the ground.
Lesnar is a very big man that can rock you if he hits you with a punch. He has a explosive double leg and some deadly ground and pound. This fight should be great and I really hope they have it in indy do I can see it live. This is another heavy weight fight that I would not bet on since the fight is such a toss up.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Lesnar's TD > Konrad's TD...
From the horses mouth…
Lesnar rag dolls Konrad in wrestling.. I’d say the safer bet at this point about who can take who down and keep them there is on Lesnar..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
7-3-10
BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!
Aslo..
All this arguing over who can take who down is pointless..
TD’s don’t mean anything unless you can finish it from there.. Lesnar does.. the same can’t be said for your boy GSP.. lol (statistically speaking)…
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
7-3-10
BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!
WHo said he was my boy? I have no dog in any of these fights. I just like smart break downs of fighters.
Lesnar has finished Mir on the ground by punchs and Carwin by letting him get punched out. He rocked courter and then finish with some ground and pound. He did not take randy down to finish him, he hit him in his ear.
You are right arguing over who takes down who is silly. i was just saying dont put Lesnar on GSP’s level just quit yet.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
But why not ??
You can’t identify very similar fighting styles from top control ??
Game plans ??
etc …
I’m not slighting GSP for the comparison.. I’m not over praising Lensar either.. It’s a fair assessment of how they implement their game plans and what those game plans consist of..
Brock is not trying to be Anderson Silva on the feet. He’s using his best asset.. (Wrestling). His game plan is to gain top control (where’s he’s most comfortable) and pound his opponents out..
Show me how that is any different than what GSP has been doing for the last 2 years ??
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
7-3-10
BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!
In fact..
GSP beat Penn because he was the “bigger and stronger” guy..
You can’t say he is the better grappler than Penn.. But in terms of everything else.. St. Peirre used his size and strength to beat Penn..(the better grappler)..
How is that illogical to think that Lesnar could not employ that same tactic to beat Cain ??
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
7-3-10
BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!
"I’m merely stating the obvious though.. Lesnar’s top game is about as concrete as GSPs.. If, he gets you down, you pretty much are going to stay down for the majority of that round."
Not sure how to quote on this site but this is what you said and I 100% disagree with this statement.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Which is fine...
You asked:
I just like smart break downs of fighters.
I gave you one on Lesnar and compared his style to GSP, who does the exact same thing..
you have your opinion and I have mine.. I never said you were wrong.. I just asked for you to “show me” why I am ??
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
7-3-10
BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!
I never said you were wrong just that you cant say Lesnar’s top game is as concrete as GSP’s . Do we need to go back over Lesnar’s fights to show how that statement is crazy to say right now?
He has not held anyone down like GSP has ever. The only person he really held down so far is Mir. Lesnar has looked scared on his feat. What will he do when someone stops his take downs and makes him stand up and fight?
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s the problem I have with that:
GSP’s closest fight to date (since his run) was against koscheck because he couldnt hold him down. Now GSP has great Cardio – Brock is no GSP. I think Brock can win the first 2 rounds this way but the 3rd will be the deciding factor.
Cains wrestling in MMA has been very impressive and probably more so than Brocks. Brocks power and strength have been very impressive.
when did mir get up… once brock had him down in that half nelson, i don’t believe he got up until the end of r1, or in r2 when the fight was called.
You’re probably right… He got up once in the first but it may have been Brock letting him up because mir got to full gaurd.
This. Brock stepped out of full guard and let Mir up.
by judonerd on Jul 6, 2010 1:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree.
That is why I think that Cain has to work for a takedown. Lesnar has looked less scary when pressured. If Cain can score a takedown or two he may be able to do some serious damage. I don’t see him winning 5 rounds on the feet without being taken down.
Cains wrestling is very good and definitely good enough for this fight… Brock wont be able to finish the fight with a schoolyard beatdown like he did with Mir. But Brock doesnt have to worry about cains power like he did carwin’s – so he doesnt have to be as cautious getting into the clinch or shooting.
Lesnar still doesnt know how to dirty box properly… he still doesnt know how to ground and pound with the proper leverage. Once he masters these and other critical components to his game he’ll be seemingly unbeatable but right now i see It very hard for Brock to finish the fight unless he catches cain on the feet.
Brock already has everything you need that cant be taught in the gym to be Great (except we dont know his true cardio limit yet which I expect we’ll find out in this fight)… and Time will solve everything else he needs.
Cain can go 5 rounds at a faster than normal pace. Brock fights in bursts and based on his previous fights can probably go 3 rounds with Cain’s pace. If Cain can tire him out and kick his legs out he’ll win the fight. Brock has a big reach advantage though.
Cardio vs Strength. If lesnar can go five rounds without gassing he should win… if not he has to catch him on the feet otherwise he’ll likely lose.
Question – I know people in the gym say Cain’s a cardio machine and all that, but he’s only gone more than 8 minutes once in his MMA career. Why does everyone assume he can go 25 with no problem? Especially with a tank like Brock leaning on him? Even in Cain’s wrestling days when he went against bigger guys, he was going what…9 minutes?
This isn’t really criticizing anything you’re saying about it, I’m just interested in your take on it.
http://www.instrength.com
He went 15 minutes with Kongo… but brock went 15 with herring. Both were non grapplers except Kongo has some greco background. Both can probably go 30 minutes plus with non grapplers. no problem.
Besides the Physiological probability of Brock having less of a gas tank than Cain, Ive never seen Cain tired or or even have to slow down.. is it possible for him to gas? it’s possible but if Cain gets tired that most likely means Brock is even more tired because I dont think brock can have his way with him wrestling wise. He can beat him in the wrestling game but I think he’s gonna have to exert alot of energy to do it.
If Cain gets tired he’ll slow down from a faster than normal pace to just normal pace… if Lesnar gets tired he’ll look like a bar room drunk trying to walk to a taxi.
It’s a very close fight. I see Brock with one probable path of winning and Cain with one.
by mmalogic on Jul 6, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In my estimation Cain is a bigger test for lesnar than JDS. Carwin and Cain stylistically are Brocks biggest tests – both for different reasons but both equally as big of a test.
JDS has great footwork and striking but he’s not gonna stop Brocks TD. He’s got a punchers chance but Brock will take that fight.
It doesnt matter… there is no way a guy without a wrestling background will stop brocks takedown… and more importantly get up without blowing his wad.
No way? What is JDS back ground? I know he is a boxer but I have heard he is pretty good at BJJ too.
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
^ This... lol
Mir is a black belt in BJJ … How did that work out for him ??? lol
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
7-3-10
BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!
So everyone that has a Black belt in bjj have the same abilities?
by Darren Watkins on Jul 6, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
No..
But it’s not hard to understand that a big strong wreslter with great submission defense can’t beat a BJJ black belt with ease..
Cases in point:
Lesnar over Mir
Hughes over Gracie
GSP over Penn
The list could go on..
No one is saying that anything said is impossible.. But it’s pretty evident to a lot of people here that Lesnar’s is and should be the favorite in either of those fights. They also give valid reasons why it’s to be considered too..
Anything is possible in a fight.. But the odds favorites don’t change for the sake of argument either.. lol
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
7-3-10
BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!
Mir tries to take it to the ground and stay there.
Try taking JDS down and His ass bounces back off the mat like it was a friggin trampoline. It takes less time to develop an explosive escape game than it does to develop a complete BJJ with an arsenal of sweeps and submssions.
Let’s not go oversimplfying the wide world of matwork down to a couple colors on a belt.
by judonerd on Jul 6, 2010 1:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
it wont matter… he wont just bounce back up once Brock is on top of him. It’s just a stylistic mismatch.
When has JDS even been taken down?
His matwork is a big ? for me.
Ride the Tiger!
by doonerthesooner on Jul 6, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Once by Gonzaga, and he was up in a flash
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
yes, the technique he used to sequence out and stand up was very high level, and it was instant, like he had traned it a thousand times. it was the part of the fight I was the most impressed by.
Good catch I don't remember that at all.
Did Gonzaga even try to maintain top control? I don’t think his top game has ever been that good but he always tries to bang with people.
Ride the Tiger!
by doonerthesooner on Jul 6, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
i was not imprezz
with jds bouncing back up from gonzaga. gonzaga is not a 300 lb d1 wrestler.
Herring stuffed one of his takedowns, so it’s not unreasonable to think that JDS can stuff one.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 6, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
cain doesn’t carry the enormous, hulking muscle that brock or carwin does, his frame is just a natural heavyweight frame. I think that helps his cardio, and is why he shouldn’t try to go above 250
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by Austin Martin on Jul 6, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Cain also didn't look great towards the end of the Kongo fight
But that can happen when you get popped twice, then proceed to beat the hell out of a guy for 10 minutes.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
When he wrestled CV was “known” for his cardio, which is saying something given that accomplished wrestlers are generally considered to have excellent cardio. Although matches are shorter, high level collegiate and freestyle wrestling is as great a test as there is of your anaerobic endurance. Most successful wrestlers have very good cardio — e.g., Joe Warren and Ben Askren, although King Mo seemed pretty weary at times against Mousasi and Shamolrous (sp?) looked like he was slowing down a bit against Jensen. MMA is a different activity, and just because you didn’t tire in wrestling doesn’t mean that you won’t get tired in an MMA match which is longer and emphasizes the use of different muscles than you tend to use in wrestling. Also you have to factor in the damage you receive in an MMA match. Getting kicked in the leg and kneed in the solar plexus has got to take it out of you, even if you’re otherwise in great shape. Fighters whose bodies are accustomed to this sort of damage (e.g., muay thai fighters) will be much less likely to fatigue from such blows than will a newly minted wrestling convert. Still, Cain has done nothing but impress me with his work rate in his MMA fights. I tend to agree with those who non-pejoratively refer to him as a “freak”.
by The Darkness on Jul 6, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Good breakdown
Where do you put the line at? I’m going to say the line will end up with Brock at around -200, although it’ll open higher. I personally slightly favor CV.
by The Darkness on Jul 6, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Cain will make look Brock like an amateur.
by Nate2k on Jul 6, 2010 11:14 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Rec English for good
Now I fun will make you of.
by Body Triangle on Jul 6, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Wow, I didn’t even catch that until you pointed it out.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
...powerful you have become,
the dark side I sense in you.
"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield
"A good word that I got from the Mike Tyson Documentary... I'm going to absolutley decimate this motherf**ker, I haven't been in the dictionary to see what it actually means but I'm guessing it's going to be something in the way of just killing a motherf**ker." -Paul Daley (on the definition of Decimate)
nah…gogoplata
"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield
"A good word that I got from the Mike Tyson Documentary... I'm going to absolutley decimate this motherf**ker, I haven't been in the dictionary to see what it actually means but I'm guessing it's going to be something in the way of just killing a motherf**ker." -Paul Daley (on the definition of Decimate)
He's lucky he's pretty,
the whole being smart thing isn’t working out.
The NBA: Where Donaghy Happens.
Question, if Brock goes on to beat Cain, dos santos/nelson, where would you rank him in greatest heavy’s all time?
He would go down as the greatest heavyweight ever… he would have beaten twice as many top contenders than Fedor has. Even if he doesnt win, whoever comes out on top in these musical chairs will eventually go down as the greatest HW ever.
I think we’d have to see how Cain/JDS/Nelson’s careers play out before we could put Brock on that pedestal, not to mention the rest of Brock’s career. Quality of competition is apparently everything. In Randy’s case, when he beat Gonzaga (who was a monster at the time), it was seen as hugely impressive. Now? Not so much.
http://www.instrength.com
If Brocks beats Cain, JDS and the inevitable rematch with Carwin if hes still champ, then there’s no doubt he will be #1. Right now I can’t put him above Fedor yet, just because he litterally looked like shit in the 1st rd. He’s my #2 right now.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 6, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
comments below are hilarious
a total buttload.
I'm better than you. Na na na boo boo, stick your head in doo doo.
by Earl Montclair on Jul 6, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Is Josh married to Coker's daughter or something?
He seems to really want to never get another chance in the UFC.
I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.
Dudes just trying to add some legitimacy to his own career in SF
Over-rated and over opinionated.
A burning passion from a burning mass reaches up for the sky
by Shoguns Hairy Forearms. on Jul 6, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Was it just me (now this may have been said on another thread so sorry if it was) but any one else notice Lesnar trying the same half nelson single armed full nelson on carwin as on mir? I believe was in rd 2 before the arm triangle ?
"Golden horse Shoe removal master"!!!!!
by lesnarhypetrain on Jul 6, 2010 12:58 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
He did. I saw it too. But Carwin
was too strong to hold in that position.
I love this fight. I always said Cain was more well rounded than Carwin. Even though Cains smaller I think he has a great chance to outwork Lesnar. The 1st rd will be the most critical. Will Brock take him down, lay on him punishing him and getting him tired or will Cain do the just that to Lesnar? Will Lesnar even take Cain down? Ohhh man!! IMO they could sell this one at Cowboys Stadium. Just promote the shit out of it. 24/7 err, I mean, UFC Primetime and all…
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
Cain’s striking technique is probably better than anyone Brock has faced imho. Hopefully his ko of nog would prompt people to take his striking seriously.
No people think Nog is all washed up so that KO doesn't seem to get the props it deserves.
Ride the Tiger!
by doonerthesooner on Jul 6, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
No doubt
And there’s some truth to it, but if you watch that punch in slow motion… accurate as hell… many HW’s would have fallen with that.
Didn’t Cain barely get past Kongo? I don’t see him having much of a chance against lesnar. JDS is more interesting a matchup to me.
Are you kidding me? He dominated him from start to finish and didn’t KO him just because there was no leverage on his shots from the positions he was throwing them.
Cain was also dropped hard at the beginning on the first 2 rounds
Kongo was able to get him on the button twice while retreating
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
This is the same Cain who couldn't put Kongo away?
No offense, but Cain isn’t the biggest puncher. And now we all know that Brock is capable of being hit by a bus and still recover. Brock is going to put Cain to sleep.
Not really as Carwin didn’t land not even closely as good as on his past victims. But Brock was still all over the place and lets not forget he was also hurt in the Randy/Mir fights. When someone lands right on the button, the dude is gone.
i agree. talk to wrestlers and fighters who know what they are talking about and they will say the same thing… fans however are a different story.
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com and MMAFighting.com, mma enthusiast
I think the fight comes down to this
Cains cardio, intelligence and ever improving overall skills. I have worked with him and Cormier in past months and also watched him at AKA last year. His handspeed, footwork and ability to mix his strikes up, move in and out and striking defense have improved unbelievably. He will hit AND kick Lesnar and will have many ways on the feet of ending Brocks night. If he lands strikes and Brock turtles up in an effort to weather the storm as he did against Carwin. Cain will not punch himself out, he transitions from GnP to submissions almost effortlessly now and Brock was wide open about 25 times against Carwin. He wont get away with it this time. Cains leg kicks are also incredible and I could see him getting Lesnars legs black and blue and cramping up in 1 round.
Now I acknowledge my bias in this case because I have worked with and seen CV in the gym allot and not Brock. But based on what Brock has done in the ring I really don’t see how he wins against a healthy Velasquez and at the rate that he is improving coupled with his confidence and intelligence. Brock better have his game leap forward about 10 years from what I saw last saturday or he he could look like a big Gorilla.
Brock gasses after 2
Brock looked fairly gassed in round 2 with Carwin as well. He was starting to gass in round 2 with Randy. He slowed down in the Herring fight. Brock would never last 5 rounds with Cain. He either takes Cain down and pounds him out in round one or two or he will gass out and either get choked out or lose the last 3 rounds. Cain needs to fight smart. Brock’s boxing really sucks but he will throw a knee on the inside and is great at getting takedowns but as we saw, Carwin stuffed the TD until he gassed. Brock could lose to Cain but I doubt it. Dos Santos however, I have no doubt would KO Brock.
Why do we care what Josh Thomson thinks?
They fight out of the same camp, so what else is he going to say? “Cain’s takedowns probably won’t work on Brock.”? “Cain has no chance!”? “Cain was literally shitting all over the mats yesterday in fear.”? (Note: I do not think any of these are true either)
Seriously, let’s call up Chris Tuchsherer and see what chance he thinks that Cain has against Brock- it is just as predictable and as objective of an analysis as any AKA member will have on the fight.
Brock has a punchers chance!!??
Seriously? Has no one been noticing that Brock has no hands. He got hit once by Carwin and back peddled. He has no counter strike. He looked horrible on his feet with Mir. Yeah he has big hands but that doesn’t matter if someone is throwing three strikes at you before you can throw one.
I’m just saying….. his hands are horrible. Everyone has a punchers chance. I’m over that statement.
Shut up, Tito.
I see it as
I just don’t see why Cain all a sudden is this next big thing? Is he good? Yes but some people act like he is the next coming of Christ. Is he? Maybe…or is it because he was going to be a possible opponent of Brocks?
You seen Cain drop it like its hot a few times against Kongo. Granted he did bounce back up right away & Brock doesn’t have the striking of Kongo but he can hit & has shown that.
I also think after the hits he took from Carwin, he isn’t going to go into flight mode as fast. Cain doesn’t have that punching power.
I don’t know, I just think Brock has more chances to win this then Cain does.
I give Brock an advantage in size and strength but that's it right now.
Cain is a really solid prospect he for sure has the best takedowns in the HW division and has good stand up. If he can stay off his back for long periods of time he can win this fight.
Ride the Tiger!
by doonerthesooner on Jul 6, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
"If"...
leg kicks start to become a part of the Cain plan…. It will just make Brock’s TD’s easier..
I think they’ll play with the idea early but if it has no impact or let’s Brock get the TD.. they’ll go away from that if he gets back to his feet or at the start of another round..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
7-3-10
BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!
Honestly I’m not convinced on either one of these guys yet…, but, I can’t see how Cain could handle the facets of Brock. I haven’t really seen how Cain handles himself from the bottom yet…seems like a big ? The KO against Nog also leaves something to be desired in the way of power, clearly Brock can take some power shots but does Cain really have anything in that department? Cain also nearly got folded up twice by Kongo and granted he was able to dictate the pace of the fight Kongo is a much smaller HW with not nearly as much XP points in wrestling as Brock.
"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield
"A good word that I got from the Mike Tyson Documentary... I'm going to absolutley decimate this motherf**ker, I haven't been in the dictionary to see what it actually means but I'm guessing it's going to be something in the way of just killing a motherf**ker." -Paul Daley (on the definition of Decimate)
he didn't nearly get folded
He got caught on the chin by a good striker while going in for the take down(at least as I remember it’s been a long time since i’ve seen the fight) He got hurt for sure but he didn’t get rocked in my opinion.
Ride the Tiger!
by doonerthesooner on Jul 6, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure what you call it, but to me it’s called nearly getting folded up.
"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield
"A good word that I got from the Mike Tyson Documentary... I'm going to absolutley decimate this motherf**ker, I haven't been in the dictionary to see what it actually means but I'm guessing it's going to be something in the way of just killing a motherf**ker." -Paul Daley (on the definition of Decimate)
You're right, I stand corrected.
It’s been a while like I said. but yeah he almost got folded.
Ride the Tiger!
by doonerthesooner on Jul 6, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
no harm no foul, I ’member seeing that fight and thinking to myself “Damn, How did he survive that?” BTW DIO rocks
"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield
"A good word that I got from the Mike Tyson Documentary... I'm going to absolutley decimate this motherf**ker, I haven't been in the dictionary to see what it actually means but I'm guessing it's going to be something in the way of just killing a motherf**ker." -Paul Daley (on the definition of Decimate)
I can't wait until this fight...
Obviously Cain has no chance, so it’s kinda weird they are even going to have the fight….
I mean lets see, our personal lord and savior BROCKLESNAR:
- will win if he’s on top of Cain
- will weather the storm of Cain’s strikes
- will weather Cain’s takedowns
- will weather Cain’s cardio and pace
- will weather weather
- will defeat Cain via first round stare down.
Yet the fact that it’s annoying as shit to already hear about how Cain is a non-factor in this not yet having occurred fight, is the opposite side to the beauty of this sport meaning that anyone can win. Anything can happen.
I’ll be rooting for Cain come fight time.
I write sometimes for Cagedinsider.com
I will too, and I will have mucho dinero on it as well
Come fight time he will be ready and able while Lesnar will be overly confident.
I agree and disagree with this( still working it out in my head), but I dont think Cain will be the one to take it from him as sad as that makes me.
"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield
"A good word that I got from the Mike Tyson Documentary... I'm going to absolutley decimate this motherf**ker, I haven't been in the dictionary to see what it actually means but I'm guessing it's going to be something in the way of just killing a motherf**ker." -Paul Daley (on the definition of Decimate)
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