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Jonathan Snowden fails to impress in his UFC 116 reaction

While Jonathan Snowden found little to be impressed about in his take on the UFC 116 main event, many in the Bloody Elbow community took offense to his reaction, and rightly so. Unlike the UFC 116 main event, Snowden's piece was technically proficient. Spelling was fine for the most part. Paragraph and sentence structure was also fine.

Star-divide

But here's what Snowden's piece didn't have: relevance. His criticism of the main event may be fair. However, like most of his writing, it's meaningless -- sound and fury, signifying nothing. As Luke Thomas pointed out:

UFC 116 was a home run in the most meaningful entertainment and sporting way. I take Snowden's criticism that we weren't watching sophisticated technique as fair, but not particularly topical. This isn't the Ultimate Technique Championship or Mixed Martial Techniques. We are watching sport fight and whoever wins in sports fighting is the best. Besides, isn't this the same criticism he faced in collegiate wrestling? Lesnar is finding ways to win and that's what matters. You're not going to see Lesnar hit arm-drag backtakes, but you are going to see hand raised at the end of the fight. There are liabilities to that style, but that doesn't diminish it's[sic] offensive potency.

Lesnar-Carwin effectively settled the argument about the best heavyweight in the world. The fact that Lesnar wouldn't know a d'Arce from a dartboard does not matter. What mattered is that the guy took a tremendous beating, manned up and finished his toughest fight to date.

THIS PORTION OF THE FANPOST EDITED FOR CIVILITY.

We learned a few things about Brock Lesnar tonight. We confirmed what many suspected: Brock Lesnar doesn't like to get hit. As soon as Carwin touched him, Lesnar did more than cover up. He flat cowered against the cage. He wasn't hurt as much as terrified. Make no mistake-Carwin had that fight won. Against anyone who isn't the promotion's heavyweight champion, that fight gets stopped due to some brutal ground and pound.

Who actually LIKES to get hit? I mean, seriously. And "as soon as Carwin touched him" with an uppercut that landed flush, Lesnar did indeed back up. He wilted but he did not go unconscious. He defended and managed to do something no one else has done against Carwin's power: Brock stood back up. I'm not sure that's cowering. That's defending and surviving. Those same types of shots from Carwin put out Gonzaga, Mir and a host of other fighters. Lesnar weathered the best that Carwin had, and came out on top. That was amazing. Now, pay attention to the last sentence up there. It'll come back into play in a moment.

And we learned a lot about Snowden from that post: He's thin-skinned, willing to piss off BE members, but unwilling to be criticized. He doesn't like to be hit, either, apparently, and cowers behind warnings and defends with deletions.

Lucky for Lesnar, Carwin isn't merely a one-round fighter. He doesn't event[sic] have that much in him. Three minutes into the bout and Carwin's heaving breaths couldn't feed his mammoth muscles. Lesnar survived, less because of his own defensive prowess and more because Carwin gassed and gassed bad.

Wait ... which was it? Was Lesnar saved by the ref or saved by Carwin gassing? Which was it? The fact is, Josh Rosenthal reffed his ass off in that fight. He made the right decision to let it go on. Lesnar's defense wasn't too bad, considering he had a 265-pound professional athlete on top of him, raining down punches and elbows. And yes, Carwin gassed. I've got a feeling almost anyone would. I won't even get into the fact that Snowden's on the verge of fighter-bashing, IMO.

Lesnar took him to the mat with a sloppy tackle and shortly thereafter finished him with an arm triangle. It was hardly a display of technical prowess.

Did you notice the takedown, the transitions to mount and then side control? Did you notice the arm triangle? I mean, what do you want here? Maybe next time Lesnar can win with an omoplata. Would that help? No, the fight wasn't GSP-Penn III, but it was incredibly dramatic and compelling. It wasn't sloppy kickboxing. It was a fight that decided the pecking order of the heavyweight division in MMA, whether you like it or not. It was a fitting main event to one of the most entertaining cards I've seen all year.

Here's the thing: Writers/reporters are always looking for a different angle, something to drive readership. But to write something that so obviously missed the mark -- something that's purposely insulting to both fighters -- shows me that Snowden either wasn't paying attention or simply enjoys trolling the BE fanbase. Brock's win was classic -- it was the kind of win that we've seen pulled off by Big Nog and by Fedor. Neither of those guys ever got criticized like this. Those guys are fanboy darlings.

I'm not a Brock Lesnar fan. But after last night I respect the hell out of him. He's one tough fighter. With his back against the cage he found a way to win. A guy who doesn't recognize that -- a guy who goes out of his way to criticize that incredibly compelling main event for being "sloppy" -- is just at odds with reality.

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

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Calling that last shot a “sloppy tackle” kind of negates everything in the article. Brock knew he couldn’t outmuscle Carwin to the ground and knew he had to hit a technically awesome double. He did.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 4, 2010 1:39 PM EDT reply actions  

After watching the replay, that takedown at the end was perfect. I’m reminded that good ole’ thisredengine called it “lethargic”…well, when the guy you’re taking down just topples over, all you really do is just pull out their base and maintain control. Was it not “explosive” enough for the masses? /eyeroll

From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479

by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 4, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

The takedown was in slowmotion. You really can't admit that?

Follow me on twitter @thisredengine

Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com

by Matthew Roth on Jul 4, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, because Brock is as fast as a middleweight, just like the promotions said!

Seriously, the speed wasn’t what it would have been fresh, but the technique was on point.

From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479

by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 4, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was perfect.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 4, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Perfectly slow.

Carwin just stood there and took it. I mean we do that when practicing takedowns in class but uh…it’s class.

Follow me on twitter @thisredengine

Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com

by Matthew Roth on Jul 4, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

rec'd

because its the perfect ending to a silly argument… I’m wondering if it ever mattered whether the takedown was slow or fast….?? Just as long as he scored the takedown….. im jus sayin..

by Brandon 'B G' Garner on Jul 4, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

Big, fast takedowns have their advantages

In Brock’s case though, the takedown was fucking beautiful and a perfect means to a devastating end.

Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture- "The Best Never Rest!"

"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates

by ElliotMatheny on Jul 4, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s easy to look great when you are taking down some one who is about to fall over on their own. At this point Carwin was basically a tackling dummy.

HTML5 + WebM now! Death to Flash!!!

by j.villain on Jul 4, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

And who made him that way?

Brock, by surviving the first round.

"If you go up there clueless, you're going to come back [to the dugout] clueless. It's that simple." - Nick Markakis

by duck on Jul 4, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Look at Joe Silva in that gif….he always cracks me up.

USMC vet. MMA nut. Rousimar Palhares is a dirty fighter.
Pain don't hurt...

by RolloTomasi on Jul 4, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, his reactions are always great. We need a Joe Silva Cam

Stallar.com take a gander!

by Earl Montclair on Jul 4, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holy crap, it’s been a while since you’ve posted regularly. Where have you (and your av) been?

If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 4, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know man

Moved into a new house, so I haven’t had internet for a while, but now that we’ve got that goin it’s back in the saddle again.

It’s amazing how productive I am without the internet though, kinda surprising haha

Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture- "The Best Never Rest!"

"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates

by ElliotMatheny on Jul 4, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

He also lowered his hip level mid-takedown

while still striding forward without lowering his head face-first to the floor. Not easy for a heavyweight to do, and a very good technical adjustment.

"If you go up there clueless, you're going to come back [to the dugout] clueless. It's that simple." - Nick Markakis

by duck on Jul 4, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

aight. It's not everyday that I feel the need to respond to someone

I don’t know Jonathan Snowden, and I don’t care to know him. I don’t care to read his articles either. He has his opinion. Let him have it. A lot of people write books. I have no respects for journalists who try to stir the pot. Someone else does the hard work in the gym (in this case Shane and Brock) and some guy feels the need to take negative shots. Who the F cares. I would wish him good luck but I just don’t care. In fact, I don’t care for any journalist. I am a naturalist and in nature there is a good name for journalists.

Opinions are like arse holes. Everyone has one. 10 years from now, people are going to remember this fight for what it was not whom it impressed.

All I know is I was entertained by Brock Lesnar vs. Carwin. I don’t give a rat’s ass who’s No. 1 or who’s not impressed. If people stopped reading every useless article, maybe we would not have to discuss them?

by SheepleBuster on Jul 5, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

You don’t care SO HARD that feel compelled to write a pretty long post about how hard you don’t care?

Hey Pete
R.I.P.

by Grappo on Jul 5, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah I thought his article was a little much aswell.
But hey I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

by beerdo on Jul 4, 2010 1:41 PM EDT reply actions  

that was kinda the point

:-)

visit my website: http://bobthewriter.com

by bobthewriter on Jul 4, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1 to you

I sincerely hope no mods give you crap for this.

by Trysdor on Jul 4, 2010 1:43 PM EDT reply actions  

I hope not

Props for detailing your argument and explaining your opinion. I’m gonna rec the shit out of this post.

by Curbside on Jul 4, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Relatively unknown? Really?

Relative to Brock Lesnar, yes.

by JRN on Jul 4, 2010 1:44 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m at a loss as to how to decipher this reply.

I don’t think calling Carwin “relatively unknown” is intended as an insult. It’s just a statement of fact.

by JRN on Jul 4, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fedor Emelianenko is unknown relative to Brock Lesnar.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 4, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

OK, it’s a pointless description. So what? The OP is acting as if (a) it’s there to somehow discredit Carwin and (b) the fact that the guy is undefeated, etc. makes it untrue.

He’s also “relatively unknown” compared to Frank Mir and Randy Couture. Maybe that’s the idea. I don’t know. Just seems weird to react to that bit as though it were malicious.

by JRN on Jul 4, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, maybe not Mir. I don’t know what effect Mir being on TUF has vs. Carwin actually beating Mir. But Couture definitely.

by JRN on Jul 4, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

it was a bad joke i guess.

but i do disagree… carwin has been in the UFC for some time now and has scored some high profile KO’s. His fight vs mir i beleive was co-main event and he was awarded KO of the night. I suppose you can use the term “relative” to qualify any evaluation of a comparison you’d like. But, as cannon said above whats the point? it isn’t a useful criticism for snowden to make (although I do agree that I hate how often “biggest fight in UFC history” is thrown around).

by phantasma475 on Jul 4, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

My point is that there’s no reason to construe “relatively unknown” as a criticism of Carwin, useful or otherwise. If anything it’s a criticism of precisely this:

how often "biggest fight in UFC history" is thrown around

in which case you do in fact ::gasp:: agree with Snowden! On that very small point, at least. Perish the thought.

by JRN on Jul 4, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

well… yes… that’s why that sentence started with “although i do agree”

But the only way the two issues here, carwin’s popularity and dana’s/rogan’s hyperbole, can be linked into one is if we say that the only reason this fight could possibly not be the biggest fight in mma history is because of carwin being “relatively unknown.” If we took the two most popular fighters using whatever metric you’d like to quantify popularity, that in itself would not inherently make it the biggest fight in history. Therefore, I do not think it is unreasonable for me to take issue for one and not the other.

by phantasma475 on Jul 4, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess you’ll have to take that one up with Jon. My point that calling Carwin “relatively unknown” is not an insult stands.

by JRN on Jul 4, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

You might say he is relatively unknown, but in the end it doesn’t matter either way.

Snowden said that specifically to somehow discredit Brock Lesnar, that was the intention.

by Electro Boy on Jul 4, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Somehow… but how? ::wracks brain::

by JRN on Jul 4, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

pretty simple

saying he is unknown is trying to make him into a lesser fighter than he really is and Brock not destroying this “unknown” fighter is an attempt to discredit Lesnar.

It was intentional, he was trolling.

by Electro Boy on Jul 4, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I figured that’s how you read it. I just thought your use of ‘somehow’ was funny. Like “I know this should make me mad… hold on, I’ll think of something…”

That’s not how I read it, particularly since it’s followed up with “We’ll know next week whether that was true when the pay per view numbers trickle out”—indicating that he’s allowing some possibility that it could be the biggest, even though he’s skeptical about it—but whatever.

by JRN on Jul 4, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great article!

Well written and to the point. Keep ’em coming.

by Shatto1 on Jul 4, 2010 1:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Good write up.

Reading some of the shit Snowden wrote again, I just can’t believe he is saying it. The dude is seriously hating on both fighters. I don’t think any of the MMA websites I visit have ever had a piece that ripped into fighters as Snowdens did.

by Crazynutts on Jul 4, 2010 1:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Lesnar getting hit...

Constantly brought up now, but no one says exactly what he did wrong, they just claim he doesn’t like getting hit…what happened there was, Lesnar didn’t have proper lateral movement, and ended up backing straight up.

Thats how Andrei Arlovski got KTFO against Brett Rogers.

Nobody LIKES getting hit, especially when we’re looking at Shane Carwin, the biggest, hardest puncher Brock has ever fought, and arguably, ever will. What we saw from Brock was a mixture of urgency, when the punches started coming, Brock instantly knew he needed to get away, or get a takedown. Even when getting hit with punches and knee’s, Lesnar kept the clinch and looked for a way to get the fight to the ground. The final flurry is where we saw Lesnar get clipped, and back up in a straight line.

I really don’t get it. People act like not wanting to get hit by Shane Carwin is some sort of foreign idea…I’d much rather commend Lesnar for not being a fool and thinking he could trade blows with him.

From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479

by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 4, 2010 1:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Chris Leben loves getting hit.

The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.

by SSreporters on Jul 4, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Correct

He got hit by Anderson and he didn’t like that much at all. Nobody likes getting hit by a powerful & precise striker.

"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"

by dedstrk316 on Jul 4, 2010 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

?

I think Leben liked it plenty, seeing how he went back for more and took about 50 consecutive shots until his lights finally went out.

by Electro Boy on Jul 4, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

So do a lot of guys actually.

Clay Guida thrives off it. I think it was Diego who told me he feeds of the energy from it. Some guys can’t turn it on until they get clipped.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jul 4, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Notice that none of these guys

fight 265 pounders. There’s a massive difference in striking power.

by Trysdor on Jul 4, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

What people are failing to realize is..

“We” the community make this site.. We drive the site and make it what it is today..

If people are not talking, then they’re going somewhere else to talk.. This site needs the traffic to sell advertising to cover the costs to maintain..

I think Snowden just plays into that angle knowing he can get a rise out of people and get them talking.. Driving traffic and creating controversy.. They almost go hand in hand..

I ignore the obvious dumb shit.. He literally had an “off night” … lol

If you get enough people riled up, they start coming in droves to talk about it.. If you literally don’t like Snowden.. You “the community” have the power to remove him.. Stop create a petition to have him removed and get enough people to sign it, and it’s a reality.. Threaten to take your action to a different site and/ or start a new community, with enough signatures.. It becomes a reality..

Nothing against Snowden personally.. I like the guy.. I’m just stating the obvious… Complaining about does little to no good with no course of action that follows..

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Jul 4, 2010 2:02 PM EDT reply actions  

I love BE, and I don’t think there’s been a day I haven’t came to check things out in over a year. That said, it’s a very fine line to walk when you put out pieces that are meant to cause a stir, because in the end, that is what will keep people thinking poorly of blogs. Traffic and variety are great, but at what cost?

From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479

by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 4, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

If it’s the cost of the opinion of people that wouldn’t be reading you anyway, then the cost is a big fat who gives a shit

We all showed up, nobody is leaving in disgust, I still look forward to whatever Snowden writes next because it will either be really educational or something to throw tomatoes at, etc

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 4, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh I agree.. :)

Obviously he was “reaching” with the blog last night…

When it’s “that obvious”.. I just ignore it.. lol

But again.. I like the guy.. For those that don’t.. they should know they have the power to change it.. If it’s a majority thing.. It will be a reality.. lol

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Jul 4, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly. I’ve liked all of Snowden’s stuff, but putting up a piece like that, minutes after the event, when all the traffic is here from the show…

Anyone with half a brain knows what he was getting at. I don’t necessarily disagree 100% with what he was saying, but the way it was said, and it’s intentions were…meh. One gimmicky post-fight piece doesn’t overshadow a great deal of quality work.

From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479

by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 4, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

They changed the time stamps on Fagan's pieces to drop Snowden's piece as well.

I think there is controversy they like controversy they don’t like. They have no problem with the traffic, just a problem when other staff members don’t agree with it.

Follow me on twitter @thisredengine

Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com

by Matthew Roth on Jul 4, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

You don’t want the top post to be something like that.

Guillotine.

by iiowyn on Jul 4, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think he was trying to piss of anyone

or get more people writing stuff. I was one of the few who agreed with him in that Brock didn’t impress with his chin. He didn’t impress with the turtling. He didn’t impress with the 100 shots that he lamely TRIED to block. There are a few of us out here who thought Brock was better than he showed and said it.
Maybe I’m new to the site and haven’t seen other efforts of his but I think he got a bum rap by a lot of Lesnar lovers. I like Lesnar but thought sort of like Snowden did. Not trolling just saying it’s a free country and everyones entitled to their opinion.

by taz66 on Jul 5, 2010 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Stick around...

It get’s pretty interesting…

He’s known for toeing that line…

In this case.. he was attempting to get a rise out of people and succeeded..

Having an opinion for or against either fighter is not what’s at question.. It’s the blatant bias and obvious intent that brought to question..

If you didn’t care for it.. state you didn’t care and keep it moving.. But to write (at length) an entire piece about how terrible both guys are while avoiding the obvious.. Well.. that just illustrates intent to bash..

Anyone in their right mind is not going to try and compare the technical nuances of LW’s to HW’s.. I myself saw a technical display of ground fighting when Lesnar shot a double, established half guard, set up a transition for the arm triangle with body shots and a head shot, then land two back to back transitions from half guard to mount, then mount to far side control, then look to his corner for instruction as to which way to roll, then execute that turn with pin point accuracy..

Fedor and Nog have been beat to shit in less than stellar “technical fashion” but they were praised for their ability to beat the “bigger and stronger” guys.. Lesnar showed identical to the aforementioned, was humble in through his post fight, and showed great character and heart both through the fight and afterward.. Yet he’s still gonna be bagged on..

If you don’t like the guy.. fine we get that much.. But don’t try to discredit the guys biggest win when the odds were stacked against him and he still comes out on top…

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Jul 5, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I see your point

Both guys weren’t terrible.
There was certainly technic involved. I like the way it ended. that choke is a sneaky, bad mofo. I love it. I will even own up to being a bigger fan of Carwin and in the heat of the moment I even thought he was cheated. But after watching it a few times, hey, all things considered, Brock did pull it off. Rocky stuff.

by taz66 on Jul 6, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

f people are not talking, then they’re going somewhere else to talk.. This site needs the traffic to sell advertising to cover the costs to maintain..

I think Snowden just plays into that angle knowing he can get a rise out of people and get them talking.. Driving traffic and creating controversy.. They almost go hand in hand..

I think you might be onto something with that. I doubt it would be admitted though.

by beerdo on Jul 4, 2010 2:10 PM EDT reply actions  

And we learned a lot about Snowden from that post: He’s thin-skinned, willing to piss off BE members, but unwilling to be criticized. He doesn’t like to be hit, either, apparently, and cowers behind warnings and defends with deletions.
Love it!…………Well freakiing said bobthewriter.

by Matt Mosley on Jul 4, 2010 2:17 PM EDT reply actions  

He deleted my post calling him a *!

by Matt Mosley on Jul 4, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

The thing is, its virtually impossible to get a straight, unbiased answer on Lesnar. The purists despise him, and the casual, WWE fans are always going to love him. There is a large segment of the fanbase that will simply never credit Lesnar for anything he does, and they just get more pissed when he goes out there and keeps winning. “Hes a gimmick fluke” (Lesnar manhandles Mir for 89 out of 90 seconds in his debut), “He doesnt deserve a title shot” (Lesnar goes out and wins in dominant fashion), “Mir will tap him again” (Lesnar goes out and squashes Mir like a bug on his windshield), “Carwin will KO him” (Lesnar takes everything Carwin has to offer and taps him). The purists are simply pissed that Lesnar isnt playing along with their pre-conceived storylines, and making them look bad in the process. I’m not even a huge Lesnar fan, but i DO believe my eyes, and my eyes tell me that this guy is an utter beast. I mean, he TAPPED him with a freak arm triangle!!!! What do you want from the guy?

by Hutchy on Jul 4, 2010 2:19 PM EDT reply actions  

You can add Fagan and Brookhouse to the thin-skinned list as well. To be precise, the pissing off part is fine. The pissy-ness is annoying. All these guys should lighten up on the snark or grow tougher hides. It gets “keyboard warrior”-ish very quickly.

by former tuf noob on Jul 4, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

actually, neither one of those guys

has ever been a problem to me. i rarely agree with Fagan here, though i like his own blog. Brookhouse has warned me a couple of times, and i think those were warranted, honestly. Snowden warned me last night because he was butthurt in the comments section.

visit my website: http://bobthewriter.com

by bobthewriter on Jul 4, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s good to hear. We must not be commenting on the same posts. I have seen those two get awful sour. They must be more… sensitive… to different types of (fair) criticism than Snowden.

Honestly, I’m glad to see this kind of push-back from BE readers. But you’re right not to let my criticisms get mashed in with yours.

by former tuf noob on Jul 4, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’ve got the dick part right. But you mistake “usually wrong” and “acts like a baby when called out” for raging.

I kid! I kid!

by former tuf noob on Jul 5, 2010 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I rented that movie…unfortuanlty it was notthe sequal to raging bull as I first thought. I got quite a suprise about 3 min in.

I get more rec's then a Toyota!

by DayGeaux on Jul 6, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought he was the Mike Goldberg… is SackJonathanSnowden.com available?

Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.

by Stanlee on Jul 4, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Prob. Nobody really cares that much about Jonathan Snowden.

This my 4th account. Dont ban me bro!!!

by K1Noob on Jul 5, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

C'mon...thats silly

It still takes technique to perform all of those aspects that you said (takedowns, transitions, Whatever). And he has to do that against the most dangerous opponent he’s faced, a man who knocked out Gonzaga with 1 punch.

If it takes no technique, then your saying that any other HW who faces Carwin in the second round, should be able to take him down, gain full mount, pass gaurd, then tap him with a arm-triangle? I just don’t see that happening…

by Fedorable on Jul 4, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds to me....

like someone who is hesitant to call anything wrestling-related impressive.

And why was Carwin gassed? Because he couldn’t finish Brock. And Brock had a little bit to do with that.

"If you go up there clueless, you're going to come back [to the dugout] clueless. It's that simple." - Nick Markakis

by duck on Jul 4, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carwin was gassed because he has no cardio. It’s not like he had a monster punch count and most of the ones he threw were pretty feeble. Every one Carwin ever fights will be looking to make him move around and gas. Carwins days at the top of the HW division are over. Personally I think Randy should call him out after he finishes with Toney.

HTML5 + WebM now! Death to Flash!!!

by j.villain on Jul 4, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

"It's not like he had a monster punch count..."

FightMetric disagrees.

"If you go up there clueless, you're going to come back [to the dugout] clueless. It's that simple." - Nick Markakis

by duck on Jul 4, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think people are understating the adrenaline dump of 1) the biggest fight of his life and 2) giving Brock all he had and having to stare him down for round two.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jul 4, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Dude

You missed a great fight the other night: Lesnar vs Carwin. You might be able to catch the replay!

"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.

by IKilled007 on Jul 5, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Awesome!

So Brock gets no credit for the win. Well played, Jeffro. You’ve put Brock in a position where the best he can do is not prove he has any skill at all, but were he to lose, he sucks and should be sent packing.

In 6 years when he’s like 15-1 and has been champion the whole time, people like you will still be making excuses why we shouldn’t take Brock seriously.

I just hope you bet on fights… maybe you won’t be able to afford internet access after another Lesnar fight or two.

"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.

by IKilled007 on Jul 4, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Right it takes some technique, but very minimal. Have you never been fatigued? When I’m so gassed I can’t lift my arms or sprawl, then yes someone of significantly less skill takes me down – easily.

Yes, if nearly any other heavyweight (maybe top 15? I don’t know) faces the Carwin that came out the second round, almost any of them could take him down and finish him. No, I don’t know if Cain Velasquez favors the arm triangle – but Forest Griffing could have taken Carwin off his feet at that point. I’d go so far as to say Demian Maia could have taken down Carwin at that point. Only because Carwin did not possess the energy to defend himself.

by jeffro231 on Jul 4, 2010 3:41 PM EDT reply actions  

That’s the point. How many other top 15 HW’s would be around for the 2nd round? Maybe 2 or 3, but that’s it max.

by jhf884 on Jul 4, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you

for posting exactly what I was thinking. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but the timing and way Snowden wrote came across bitter and arrogant.

To me he came across as a “I AM the cool club” attitude that just rubs people the wrong way.

His post was NOT front page material and if you’re going to post something like that immediately after the fight you better be prepared to take a verbal beating for it.

by Curbside on Jul 4, 2010 4:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Sounds like

some of ya’ll got trolled.

by Electro Boy on Jul 4, 2010 4:09 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't come to BE often, but I read the article this gentleman is referring to.

Good on you bobthewriter. Snowden came off as a jilted prom date anyway, good to see someone recognize that fact.

"Right Leg Hospital, Left Leg Cemetery " ~ Cro Cop.

"One time my wrist watch stopped from fear". ~ Cro Cop.

by jay. on Jul 4, 2010 4:12 PM EDT reply actions  

this is getting a little stretched out , dont you think?

by sg0 on Jul 4, 2010 4:40 PM EDT reply actions  

rec’d for truth.

Mir, Nightmare , Axe Murderer , Bones

by MMA-UK on Jul 4, 2010 5:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Kind of hlarious

That you are Snowden’s own personal troll, and Snowden’s pieve was the equivalent of a troll job, so you are actively trolling a troll.

"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-

by Neil Manich on Jul 4, 2010 5:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Snowden

Playin’ heel.

And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.

by James Brady on Jul 4, 2010 5:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Snowden was right on the money with that article. It is sad that so few people realize it.

HTML5 + WebM now! Death to Flash!!!

by j.villain on Jul 4, 2010 5:45 PM EDT reply actions  

I like the part about Snowden cowering when being criticised by deleting people’s posts and giving out warnings. I got a warning from him now sure if it was just or not because I was really annoyed after reading his post Fedor/Werdum article basically calling Fedor a chump.. it was uncalled for.

Think I will never read anything he writes again on BE, I kind of already looked out for his articles after the Fedor one but that was the final straw.

That main event was amazing, best I have seen. People who don’t even watch MMA were talking to me about this fight, casual fans will have been wowed by this, it was a wildly entertaining fight and it was a huge win for MMA.

To come out like that so nagatively is just wrong, so very wrong. The most needless article I have ever come across.

I guess this is me banned now.

All the best everyone :-)

by Ilias on Jul 4, 2010 7:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Snowden’s just a hater. I had my suspisions, now I know.

USMC vet. MMA nut. Rousimar Palhares is a dirty fighter.
Pain don't hurt...

by RolloTomasi on Jul 4, 2010 7:15 PM EDT reply actions  

How much did Snowden lose betting on Carwin?

That’s the question you should be asking.

"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.

by IKilled007 on Jul 4, 2010 7:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Dude was doing anything but betting on Carwin last night.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jul 4, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have been unimpresed by snowden for some time now.

I used to love the guy…..til he got promoted to BE weiter. And while he has some occasional good stuff, so much of it is just like last nights article….pathetic and transparent.

also, props for seeing the fedor/nog comparison. That’s exactly what I saw last night. A guy come back from the edge to win in spectacular fashion….just like fedor and big nog.

great stuff and rec rec rec rec rec

by Opposites Attack on Jul 4, 2010 7:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Brock came back from a near death illness, a year away from the UFC, and sub’ed the #1 conteder in only his 6th fight!
That’s fucking impressive.

USMC vet. MMA nut. Rousimar Palhares is a dirty fighter.
Pain don't hurt...

by RolloTomasi on Jul 4, 2010 7:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Snowden! You negative nancy boy!

by 2DaDeath on Jul 4, 2010 8:46 PM EDT reply actions  

bobthewriter

I deleted the portion of your text where you insult the placement of Jon’s book in Amazon. It’s a cheap shot. I wouldn’t tolerate it in the comments and I can’t tolerate it in the text.

If you disagree with Snowden, say as much. His book is not the issue here, so stick to the topical. Thanks.

Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.

by Luke Thomas on Jul 4, 2010 8:48 PM EDT reply actions  

To be fair,

wasn’t Snowden’s labeling of Shane Carwin as a a relative unknown a bit of a cheap shot too?

I don’t care either way really but I think it was unnecessary to edit that out, Snowden’s a big boy and I’m sure he was fully aware of the success of his book and how it’s currently doing. I mean, it’s not like bobthewriter told him to eat shit and die or anything, he just took a little jab at him.

I think editing a post like this where there is so much discussion and back-and-forth (keep in mind this isn’t an anti-Snowden post, many people have commented and stated they agree with and enjoyed the article) is like telling the BE members they’re opinion doesn’t matter if it isn’t in line with the writers. Most MMA fans were heavily invested in this fight for any number of reason, and those hoping for a Lesnar win (not me! lol) are probably pretty upset, and understandably so, about an article that pretty much dismisses his win and chalks it up to Carwin gassing.

With all the interest in this fight it’s no surprise that people are getting heated about this article, but I think you should just let the discussion go on without interference so long as nobody is being unfairly insulted or attacked.

Green Jacket, Gold Jacket, who gives a shit?

by Hendar on Jul 4, 2010 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Opinions do matter

But highlighting the placement of Snowden’s book – high or low – isn’t at issue and suggesting it’s place in the sales rank is low is a very unnecessary insult. There are rules of civility that we do our best to police. It’s easy to voice your opinion and stay within the boundaries.

Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.

by Luke Thomas on Jul 5, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

understood.

visit my website: http://bobthewriter.com

by bobthewriter on Jul 4, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol

the count on Amazon was a reference to Snowden’s book?

Nice.

by Electro Boy on Jul 4, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

What a hateful post. By the way, Jon Wertheim’s book has a similar slot on Amazon (which changes frequently. Total MMA was in the top 10,000 earlier this month). It’s fairly typical for a book approaching it’s third year of life.

The rest of this is not worth responding to. You can enjoy something while recognizing its weaknesses. I love Con Air as much as the next man, but I wouldn’t call it an art film.

by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 4, 2010 9:13 PM EDT reply actions  

And you should not mistake all of this commotion about your article as a compliment.

Lot’s of people are commenting on it, and the majority of them disagree with you.

And YOU should have been warned for fighter bashing back when you accused Liddell of doing coke a few weeks ago.

by Patrick79x on Jul 4, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh, so i write as well as you, then?

visit my website: http://bobthewriter.com

by bobthewriter on Jul 4, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Not interested in this. Good luck to you. It’s a tough road you’re walking and I wish you well. Maybe you’ll be the next Spillane or Lee Child.

by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 4, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'd settle for being the next Westlake

just for the record.

and, for what it’s worth, the guy who called you a faggot needs to be banned. no place for that.

visit my website: http://bobthewriter.com

by bobthewriter on Jul 4, 2010 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thats your opinion…

USMC vet. MMA nut.
Sea-Town stay down!
Rousimar Palhares is a dirty fighter.
Pain don't hurt...

by RolloTomasi on Jul 6, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

If your writing

wasn’t so transparent to your obvious biased motives you’d get more respect. Maybe you should just delete this article and all this will simply be out of site out of mind. Just like you did in your previous poorly thought out tirade ; ) When the vast majority of the comments responding to your writing see it in the same way you have to admit there’s a problem.

by Daveyboy on Jul 4, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Snowden

Do you believe that you are simply displaying conviction in your opinions? There comes a point when a person’s conviction leads him astray and blinds him to reason. I think you have passed that point. Your constant defense of your initial stance is portraying you as person who lacks any shred of humility.

by KAN0 on Jul 4, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

exactly.

very well said. He is so blind to his own incompetance.

by Opposites Attack on Jul 5, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Where’s mmalogic in all this mess? This has potential to be funny as hell. At this point, it’s kinda just…sad.

From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479

by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 4, 2010 10:04 PM EDT reply actions  

"Although, come to think of it, this may be his definition of porn."

Rec’d you for that line. Hilarious and spot on.

I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.

by Razreshat on Jul 5, 2010 5:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

His work here is done. We have outgrown our need for mmalogic, like a beautiful butterfly taking flight.

Keep Firing, Assholes!

Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?

by Ubernoober on Jul 4, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Self-fulfilling prophecy, methinks.

From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479

by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 4, 2010 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

JONATHANSNOWDEN!!!

Undisputed most talked about BE staff member champion. It’s only when they stop talking that you should worry.

"We are entering the last phases of the Farewell Fedor tour, and I, for one, am looking forward to the future." - subo -

by Bob Boblaw on Jul 4, 2010 10:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Kid Nate has had his thunder stolen.

I think he needs to come up with something provocative or else he may not be the #1 P4P most discussed writer on Bloody Elbow.

The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.

by SSreporters on Jul 4, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

The sites growth and the staffs ability to keep up has been impressive, to me at least.

"We are entering the last phases of the Farewell Fedor tour, and I, for one, am looking forward to the future." - subo -

by Bob Boblaw on Jul 4, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just want to know who is the gatekeeper?

Fagan writes great stuff without being controversial enough for us to talk about him. I

The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.

by SSreporters on Jul 4, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

but who are we talking about right now? Come on Fagan you owe me a hug.

"We are entering the last phases of the Farewell Fedor tour, and I, for one, am looking forward to the future." - subo -

by Bob Boblaw on Jul 4, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fagan had his high when he drank that maple syrup

But he’s now the Gabriel Gonzaga of Bloody Elbow. Stuck in gatekeeper mode.

The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.

by SSreporters on Jul 4, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just when i thought I’d lived that down.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jul 5, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

But....didn't you die a delicious death?

My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.

by RobertGBP on Jul 5, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

1984, but close enough.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jul 5, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Word

84 ftw

"We are entering the last phases of the Farewell Fedor tour, and I, for one, am looking forward to the future." - subo -

by Bob Boblaw on Jul 5, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he’s done what every business owner dreams of putting together a staff that can handle it and get shit done. I am assuming but I hope it’s close.

"We are entering the last phases of the Farewell Fedor tour, and I, for one, am looking forward to the future." - subo -

by Bob Boblaw on Jul 4, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

" However, like most of his writing, it’s meaningless" this could have been your whole fanpost and got your point across.

by mmatokyo on Jul 5, 2010 1:38 AM EDT reply actions  

I disagree

I like the article and didn’t find it offensive.

Facts don't come with points of view.

by Robert Livingston on Jul 5, 2010 3:01 AM EDT reply actions  

i don’t see where I wrote that he showed no skill. I wrote that he showed no great skill and I stand by that, He took down and choked out a completely spent opponent. Do you contest that statement? Was Carwin not gassed?

I think Brock is an incredible athlete and technically very sound and skilled. And I am sure, working with Eric Paulson, that his grappling skills are not to be taken lightly. But did he display incredible skill in this fight? Did he display any standup, wrestling, or grappling in the first 5 minutes that you would label as impressive? (Actually his driving takedown at the beginning of the first was impressive, but Carwin’s TD defense was even more impressive) What he displayed were the attributes of toughness, resiliency, and remaining calm under pressure when he was getting the fuck beaten out of him. That is impressive, because I find it hard to believe that just anyone wouldn’t panic or quit when a 265 lb monstrosity was dropping jackhammers on you. But he didn’t, and even though he didn’t get a chance to showcase his many skills he did do something even better. He won.

But apparently I watched a different fight and Brock put on a grappling showcase before finishing off a very energetic Carwin. If Robbie Lawler can be celebrated for coming back after being completely dominated why can’t we compliment Brock for doing the same?

by John Nash on Jul 5, 2010 5:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

"I don’t think great skill was shown by Brock in this victory "

That’s pretty close.

"Overdrive the sound and make it sound pretty rude." - Jimmy Page

by duck on Jul 5, 2010 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

From my mobile, haha directed at nottheface.

by originaldude on Jul 5, 2010 5:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

any person that levels a criticism must be better than the person they are criticizing. That’s how it works in the real world.

Hey Pete
R.I.P.

by Grappo on Jul 5, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Snowdens article...

felt like I was reading white belt posts on sherdog.

It is truely amazing how much hate Lesnar gets. I am almost amazed at people bashing on Carwins tank. The guy went balls to the wall ground & pound. A steady stream of HARD punches, not no Jake Shields type punches. To go for that long with it would make anyone crash in the 2nd.

by Easedel on Jul 5, 2010 8:27 AM EDT reply actions  

White belts aren’t why Sherdog is terrible.

I specializes in grammar fail.

by a tommy point on Jul 5, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

How did this post get 61 recs?

If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 5, 2010 2:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Exactly.

http://www.instrength.com

by Tim Burke on Jul 5, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

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