Zuffa Sues Ken Pavia, Bellator for "Alleged Theft of Trade Secrets" [Updated]
by Mike Fagan on Jul 30, 2010 3:19 PM EDT
in MMA News
Email
Print
Zuffa LLC, the parent company of the Ultimate Fighting Championship and World Extreme Cagefighting, has filed suit against Ken Pavia, one of the sport’s most prominent fighter agents, alleging Pavia passed along trade secrets and confidential Zuffa documents to rival mixed martial arts promotion Bellator.
...
An email which Zuffa’s lawsuit alleges is from Rebney to Pavia on July 4 was attached as an exhibit to the 16-page suit. In it, Rebney writes, " … You’ve been great about sending us ‘All’ of the seminal docs from the UFC, so that we can re-do them and implement them for Bellator."
Later, the email Zuffa alleges to have been written by Rebney continues, "Please list each in terms of what it is for and how the UFC uses them/implements them. … Then I’m going to have our team Monday re-type them and we will sufficiently alter them such that they will appear to be ours and not theirs."
The response that is purported to have come from Pavia is brief and says, in its entirety, "Still I (sic) vegas. May take 24 hours to organize as some forms go to the guys in my office."
I'm not a lawyer, so I can't comment on the actual legal proceedings here, but a couple of things stick out to me.
1. How did Zuffa obtain these e-mails? It seems odd to me that this sort of communication would reach eyeballs not belonging to Bjorn Rebney and Ken Pavia. Someone else must have received them, however, if they fell into Zuffa's hands.
2. Rebney's use of quotation marks around (and capitalization of) the word "all" makes my head hurt. It also makes the e-mail sound extra sinister.
3. Is this something that actually hurt Zuffa's bottom line or is it another ploy to keep a smaller organization in check?
Update [2:09 p.m. 7/30/2010]:
Kevin Iole updated his story with a quote from Bellator attorney Patrick English:
“I’ve looked at the paperwork, and I understand what’s going on here, and it is literally much ado about very little,” English said.
“There were documents sent by Mr. Pavia to Bellator, but they are not of a competitive nature and they would give no advantage or disadvantage to the viewer. The bulk of them in no way, shape or form would be considered confidential and are not what I consider to be documents that Zuffa should be concerned about.
“I did attempt to reach out to Zuffa [Thursday] and, unfortunately, have not gotten a return call. It happens that Bellator has not used any of the documents in any case.”
Justin Klein over at the Fight Lawyer also breaks down the complaint:
At the outset, from the face of the complaint, it is not clear what information was allegedly disclosed that is subject to trade secret protection. That said, Zuffa alleges that it doesn't know yet what "all" of the seminal documents are and so it would be pretty difficult to allege the confidential terms with any sort of specificity. Zuffa certainly seems to have enough to assert the claim.
In this regard, what you pay someone, who you deal with, or the duration of an exclusive contract could be a trade secret as could idiosyncratic or confidential business terms. That said, if stuff like that was redacted (that is, if the allegedly confidential information was whited out), then this would severely undercut any potential trade secret claim. In fact (and this is more complicated), if the confidential information was redacted, copyright preemption would likely come into play to bar a claim based upon retyping and rephrasing the non-confidential sections of the documents.
Next, it seems plausible from the allegations that the Doe defendants are fighters that allegedly had these confidential agreements with Zuffa and that the Roe defendants are plausibly venues and/or sponsors that allegedly had agreements with Zuffa that contained allegedly confidential or proprietary information.
Finally, and as an interesting competition point, assuming the case goes forward, Zuffa should get access to the Bellator agreements in discovery -- although this will likely be subject to a protective order that provides that the agreements are for "attorney's eyes only."
Justin also reveals that the e-mails in questions were also sent to Tim Danaher. Is Danaher the leak? I don't know. Who is Danaher? I don't know. The first result for "Tim Danaher MMA" on Google is the above post from the Fight Lawyer. The second result is a congratulations for new black belts and instructors at some Tiger Schulmann's MMA school.
344 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
If a McDonalds employee sold secrets to Burger King, you bet your ass they would sue. Then some stupid ****er would complain about McDonalds not being in support of the growth of fast food and ending world hunger.
Hard core MMA fan since UFC 99
by ChiCubs23 on Jul 29, 2010 9:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 19 recs
No but then I’m also not stupid enough to try and sell or give away any of their trade secrets or confidential paperwork and expect to get away with it either. Every company in the world will sue your ass (if not worse) if you give a competitior of theirs confidential information about the company and only a complete dumb ass would think otherwise. If Pavia was stupid enough to actually give Bellator confidential UFC documents then he deserves all the trouble that is heading his way and if Bellator was stupid enough to take them then so do they. This has nothing to do with hating developemental MMA and everything to do with basic corporate law.
by who me on Jul 29, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions 12 recs
I’m sorry for being naive that Dana and co. might want other MMA franchises to succeed and at the same time develop more talent that will obviously eventually be fed into the UFC. Bellator is helping the community by putting all their shows on cable and while Bellator will never have the ability to make millions of dollars per card, they bring talent to the limelight for the UFC to scoop up.
Zuffa has nothing to lose with the rise of MMA, I thought they were smart enough to realize that.
MMA > The UFC
If anyone needed proof that Ken Pavia is a colossal doucher I tell them to look at the shirt he has on in the picture of this article. I could never prove it but I feel like people who wear lame ass shirts prove everytime they get dressed that they don,t have an original or clever idea in their brain. He deserves to have Zuffa’s lawyers up his ass just for that shirt. Clothing like that is a slippery slope leading to Theft of Trade Secrets. And nice faux-hawk in your late thirties.
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by Earl Montclair on Jul 30, 2010 6:24 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So? What does that have to do with the issue at hand? You are so caught up in hating Zuffa that you can’t even see the basic point of what is going on here. This isn’t about Zuffa wanting to crush Bellator it’s about Pavia and Bellator doing something that is ethically wrong. Bellator being a developmental area for the sport is irrelevant, if they accepted trade secrets and confidential Zuffa documents then they are in the wrong and Zuffa has to go after them for it. Heck they may not even want to go after Bellator but in this situation they pretty much have to take legal steps to protect themselves and their confidential information.
This is awesome
I go camping for a day, come back, and my work is done.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 30, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think they hate the smaller orgs that develop new talent, just the direct competition like Strikrforce that challenge them. I really like Bellators shows but this was really stupid and sloppy if they were using the UFC’s contracts and got caught.
by JCBee on Jul 29, 2010 9:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bellator has some of the best prospects in MMA right now. Most of which are probably headed to Zuffa controlled orgs in the very near future. Bellator has at least 5 guys bound to be top 10 stars in the UFC
MMA > The UFC
I agree, i would love to see some of their fighters in the UFC and WEC. They don’t have a ton of talent and i think only a few of these guys would last in the Zuffa orgs, but i would love to see how they do.
Hector Lombard, Eddie Alverez, Ben Askren, Joe Soto, Alexander Shlemenko, Joe Warren, Patricio Pitbull,Toby Imada, Roger Huerta, and Dan Hornbuckle,
Or they hate people stealing their property and violating their contracts
ARTICLE XXIII
CONFIDENTIALITY
23.1 Fighter shall not disclose to any third party (other than his employees, agents, and
professional consultants, in their capacity as such, on a need-to-know basis), any information with respect
to the terms and provisions of this Agreement or any Bout Agreement except: (i) to the extent necessary
to comply with law or the valid order of a court of competent jurisdiction, in which event Fighter shall
notify ZUFFA as promptly as practicable (if possible, prior to making such disclosure) and shall seek
confidential treatment of such information, (ii) as part of normal reporting or review procedure to
Fighter’s lenders, auditors, attorneys and similar professionals, provided that such lenders, auditors and
attorneys and similar professionals agree to be bound by the provisions of this section; and (iii) in order to
enforce Fighter’s rights pursuant to this Agreement or any Bout Agreement, in which case Fighter agrees
to enter into a confidentiality agreement for all such proceedings.
23.2 ZUFFA shall have the sole right to determine the timing and content of and to make any
press announcements and other public statements regarding this Agreement.
23.3 ZUFFA shall have the sole right to file this Agreement with any applicable athletic or
fighting commission and world sanctioning bodies.
Jeremiah Johnson, Cageside Seats
Follow me @J_JohnsonMMA
by Jeremiah Johnson. on Jul 29, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Says NOTHING about agents not revealing the contracts.
If anything “shall seek confidential treatment of such information” puts the fighters at fault for any leakage.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I could see Bellator saying “it was disclosed while negotiating against a UFC offer to sign fighter X”
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 29, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Um, yes it does. You may be right that it places the onus on the fighter, but it certainly says don’t show anyone this damn contract. “Fighter shall not disclose to any third party (other than his employees, agents, and professional consultants, in their capacity as such, on a need-to-know basis), any information with respect to the terms and provisions of this Agreement or any Bout Agreement”
Jeremiah Johnson, Cageside Seats
Follow me @J_JohnsonMMA
by Jeremiah Johnson. on Jul 29, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
wait, missed the part about agents in your post
it’s an interesting angle. I wonder if there’s another clause in the contract somewhere that would bind the fighter’s agent to the same level.
Jeremiah Johnson, Cageside Seats
Follow me @J_JohnsonMMA
by Jeremiah Johnson. on Jul 29, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Agents...
Since an “Agent” acts on behalf of a “fighter” my instinct from years in business tells me that legal frameworks would dictate that anyone who is representing or acting on the fighter’s behalf is bound by all terms that bind “fighter”. By delegating responsibilities to the agent, the fighter also delegates obligations.
Furthermore, in any preamble to the contract, it could/should well state in the “Definitions of Terms” section that “Fighter” covers “Fighter himself and all his representatives”
It’s flawed if the fighter can disclose to his agent on a need to know basis, yet the agent is free to disclose it to anyone.
Nah
An agent negotiates the deal, he cannot sign a deal on behalf of the fighter NOR speak in any legal capacity for a fighter (in terms of signing contracts).
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 3:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Just because the agent doesn’t sign the Zuffa contract doesn’t mean they aren’t bound by it’s wording when they signed a contract to represent the fighter.
Most agent contracts do not give agents POA
In addition, there is no legal standing of “bound by proxy” that would bind someone to a legal document because they are in the employ of the signer.
And the contract with the fighter supercedes and predates the Zuffa contract.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions
And? Just because an agent doesn’t have POA doesn’t mean they can freely give away confidential information from a contract their client is bound by. Pavia was working for the fighters and that relationship will be covered in terms of this. His employer (the fighter) agreed to the contract stipulations and Pavia agreed to act in the fighter’s best interest. Heck the fact that he was giving away confidential information that belonged to the fighters is even worse and they could go after him too.
The fighters? Yes. Zuffa? ehhh we shall see
Depending on what information was turned over.
Looking at that confidentiality clause, Pavia is not bound by any confidentiality agreement. Unless there is other language in the contract that wasn’t posted.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Zuffa wouldn’t of gone this far if there wasn’t something there for them to go after. As an agent of the fighter then they will be able to go after him for this. Just because he didn’t sign the contract doesn’t mean that he can freely share confidential information. The fact that Zuffa could also go after the fighters for allowing it to be shared and the fighters could go after Pavia for this too is on top of that. It’s not like he found the papers on the street or they were sent to him anonomously, he was working as an agent for the fighters when they came into his possession and that relationship with the fighters is going to bind him to this issue.
You'd be suprised at how many lawsuits are filed with minimal evidence
I said a while ago that Zuffa can go after the fighter (they’d have a hard time proving which one it was) and then the fighter in turn going after Pavia. But there’s no direct link straight to Pavia. There is one for Bellator as, in the eyes of the UFC, they are the direct beneficiaries of the conversion.
That’s why I believe this is a move to get Pavia as far away from the UFC as possible by getting his fighters to break contracts with him moreso than it is a straight up violation of IPs.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh I know how many lawsuits go to court with minimal evidence but then a lot of the frivolous one’s cost the people filing them a heck of a lot of money. Zuffa’s lawyers aren’t going to file a suit unless they have a leg to stand on(that doesn’t mean they will win) because if they don’t have a leg to stand on they could end up having to pay for both side’s lawyers and set a precedent that this kind of activity with their confidential information is a-ok to share. There has to be something to this for it to get to the point of a suit being filed before one side even knew it was going to happen. If they hadn’t had something to go with they would of just tried to bully Pavia and Bellator with the threat of a lawsuit instead of going straight for the courts like this.
The WWE has done this many times to stall people out who are low on money and basically make them submit
The amount of money Zuffa is spending on this is a drop in the bucket. As a businessperson, you’d rather spend money to prove a point and get to the ultimate good. This puts the fear of God not only into competitors, but agents as well. And also makes fighters more weary of their agents and gets Ken Pavia out of the UFC.
The WWE tried to sue rapper “The Game” over his name claiming IP as wrestler HHH has that as a nickname.
They also countersued Martha Hart when they owe her royalties for her late husband Owen.
Many lawsuits are designed to drain money.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes I agree that money is a big issue in a lot of cases but Ken Pavia has a lawyer on staff, he’s not just the widow of a dead fighter with no funds to put up a fight with (and the Martha Hart story is a lot more complicated than that). Bellator is the one short on money not Ken Pavia and MMA agents. If they push with this it will end up going to court and Zuffa will have to have a case to present.
You don't think the Game has a lawyer on staff?
And having a lawyer on staff doesn’t prevent you from being subjected to a money draining lawsuit. Bellator is bleeding money. And MMAAgents isn’t exactly Scrooge McDuck either. That attorney still has to get paid despite being on staff. Martha Hart has plenty of funds to defend herself. That is beside the point.
If the case goes to court, they have slight circumstantial evidence, at the very least showing collusion between Pavia and Bellator to obtain confidential documents. That is a weak case however a good lawyer, of which I am sure Zuffa has tons, can more than likely argue it well. Companies are willing to go to court with lawsuits that have little merit as in many cases the mere filing of a lawsuit is enough of a threat.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
MMA agents says their full time staff includes a licensed attorney. There is a big difference between hiring a lawyer and having a lawyer as a employee of your company. The Game may keep a law office on retainer but I doubt he has a full time lawyer on staff as one of his direct employees. Pavia’s staff attorney is going to have to be paid whether he is working on something like this or not, he is part of the company.
Do you think this ONE lawyer covers ALLLLL their legal undertakings?
Seriously?
Seriously?
Do you think Pavia is using that lawyer (probably well versed in financial law) to defend this case dealing with copyright/contract law?
Seriously?
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I would think that one lawyer would know enough to look at it and tell Pavia if it was worth him defending his career over or not. You think Ken Pavia is going to roll over and just toss away a 20 year career as a sports agent just based on Zuffa filing a single lawsuit? If he doesn’t fight this and win then his entire career is dead in the water, I am sure that his on staff lawyer will be very involved in this (being as it’s his job too that is at stake). Will they get more lawyers? Yea I am sure they will. Do you honestly think they will just roll over a slink away because they don’t want to pay for extra lawyers though? Do you think that he won’t know exactly where he stands and what he does and doesn’t need before he goes to find outside legal help?
It's not about throwing his career away
It’s about putting the fear into other agents and creating dissent between Pavia’s fighters and him to essentially get him out of the UFC.
Who said anything about giving up?
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
If he loses this case then what fighter is going to want to work with him? For that matter what sports promotion wants to work with a guy who was found guilty of taking confidential information from a promotion and giving it to another one. If Ken Pavia loses this then his career in MMA is pretty much dead in the water. This isn’t just about getting him out of the UFC it’s something that would for all practical purposes put him out of the sport altogether. He can’t afford to not fight this.
That's my point
And even if he WINS, Zuffa via Yahoo has muddied the waters so much. Combine this with past troubles and the nigga is DOA.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless the fighter gives them the right to...
by power of attorney. Certainly lawyers or other representatives are often given (sometimes limited) power of attorney to represent artists or sportspeople.
Like I said, most agent contracts don't
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
You also have to take into account the "reasonable man" principle...
In English based law (which is what USA law is derived from, I believe) I think there is a construct known (perhaps my word for it) as the “reasonable man”. I.e. would a reasonable man think that it is totally OK for the agent to get access to documents which are confidential between the fighter and Zuffa, where the documents state that the fighter must keep them confidential except for providing them to their agent on a need to know basis?
I think any REASONABLE agent would know that such phrasing in the contract would indicate that Zuffa’s intention in providing the contract to the fighter includes NOT allowing any agents of the fighter to give away or sell the content (Intellectual property) inherent in the wording of the contract.
If a REASONABLE judge looks at the case, they will say the agent and the receiving promotion is breaching the intellectual property rights of Zuffa, even if the contract doesn’t clearly state that agents are bound by confidentiality.
You would also hope that any reasonable and upstanding agent, when providing a contract to a fighter, commits (in writing in the agency contract) to keeping confidential, any confidential documents and contracts between the fighter and his contracting parties/employers.
In the absence of a written contract, a court will “infer” reasonable clauses. A reasonable expectation is that the agent would keep any confidential contracts private, rather than provide them to a competing promotion. Again, IP infringement is clear here.
Damn, I lost my whole post
Uh basically not really. Pavia isn’t bound by any agreement with Zuffa, he might be with his client. So his client can go after him. Zuffa? not so much
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly....so why are they suing Pavia? ;)
Like I said in the post you replied to, it says NOTHING about agents not revealing the contents.
But in further thinking, I’m not sure this is in regards to fighter contracts.
But I’m still right.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Fagan missed the KEY part of the article that makes me think it's more than just "fighter contracts"
Also included in the suit are unnamed persons and corporations that Zuffa alleges participated in breach of contract. According to the suit, "The improper disclosure of Zuffa’s operations documents and confidential information by Pavia, MMA Agents, and the Doe and Roe Defendants constitutes a distinct act of dominion wrongfully exerted over Zuffa’s personal property."
Sounds like sponsors too.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Sponsor contracts for fighters are not done through Zuffa
and the contracts sponsors have with Zuffa have not been replicated by Bellator. This seems like an unlikely conclusion, unless I’m missing a detail here.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Zuffa does screen who can and cannot advertise as well as receiving a fee
There’s also that Zuffa might push certain sponsors towards fighter
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, that's what the latter part of my statement was regarding.
Bellator does nothing like what the UFC does regarding sponsors.
As for the first part… I haven’t come across that yet. It’s incredibly rare. Only thing I can think of off the top of my head is Urijah to AMP.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Every fighter ever sponsored by xyience?
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 30, 2010 7:13 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Even if they aren’t using it that doesn’t mean that they can have access to confidential documents from another company. Of course the real issue in the discussion here is that we don’t know exactly what documents and confidential information is involved, the article was pretty vague about that and it could involve just about anything.
provided that such lenders, auditors and
attorneys and similar professionals agree to be bound by the provisions of this section;
I’m no lawyer, but I read that as you can’t show it to anyone unless they agree to the confidentiality.
Those individuals you listed in the quote are directly involved in the review of the contract
The agent, as it appears, is not. Get what I’m saying? Agents don’t really review the legalities of the contract, that is left up to the fighter’s attorney (or an attorney provided by the agent), same with the financial auditors. All of those people are bound by the conf agreement.
And again, the FIGHTER himself is in breach, not the agent, if the fighter showed it to his agent without him being a part of the conf agreement.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
You are just assuming that that relationship doesn’t exist between the agent and the fighter, do you know for a fact what relationship specifically exist between Pavia and the fighter’s he represents? What exactly is Pavia’s degree from the University of Miami School of Law and exactly what functions does he do personally for his clients? Also how did he obtain the contracts to start with? if the legal council was part of his company then that would tie him to this agreement too. If his staff is fufilling the above roles then his company would be bound by that.
In many, if not most, the agent is not the one to review the contract
and thus is not bound by the confidentiality clauses contained in them (for lawyers, accountants, etc who actually look over the contract for varying purposes).
Like I said before, no one KNOWS anything. All we are doing is speculating on what the suit entails. Here’s a newsflash, most agents have a law degree. That doesn’t mean they handle the legal duties for their clients. Infact, most do not for that reason.
We don’t know how he got the contracts so until that information is revealed, we have nothing to speculate on other than he apparently did receive them.
If the legal staff used in the contracts was under his employ, he still wouldn’t be bound by any confidentiality agreement.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
We don’t know what role Pavia fills and if his staff is bound by the contract clauses then his company is bound by them too and as the head of the company so would he.
No.
Not exactly.
You don’t even know that the fighters USE the in-hourse attorney or not.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Do you think MMA Agents negotiates contracts for fighters but doesn’t look at the contracts? Do you think they provide legal services to fighters but make the fighters get outside legal help to look at the contracts? Do you think the majority of fighters can even afford that? If MMA Agents is looking at the contracts as an agent for the fighters and advising the fighters on the contracts then the company is going to be bound by the clause and if they aren’t then what the hell good are they for the fighters?
Agents are not a part of the contract review process
That’s why most agencies have a lawyer or two on payroll for those purposes. As well as financial people, etc. It’s a package. Howver, all parts aren’t subjected to the conf clause as all parts aren’t involved in the contract review process.
Here’s how it works in a nutshell:
Agent calls company
Company offers X
Agent wants Y
They negotiate and come up with Z
Company draws up legal contracts and send to Fighter’s legal rep (could be their own, could be the lawyer at agency)
Legal rep and financial people look over the contract and either make revisions or give it the thumbs up
Fighter signs
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
That's what we're waiting to find out
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
why wouldn’t the agent fall under “similar professionals?”
The agent doesn’t have to review the legalities of the contract, but they would definitely be involved in reviewing it. It says in the first part that he can show it to the agents on a need to know basis, then in the next part it says that anyone who looks at it is bound by the confidentiality, seems pretty simple to me.
by Phildo on Jul 30, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Contracts aren't drawn up until numbers and all other details have been finalized
Say with Jake Shields, his agent got the 80K/80K, a signing bonus blah blah. His agent hasn’t looked at a contract. Zuffa’s lawyers draw up a contract and send it to Shields’ legal reps. Agent doesn’t see the contract. He’s done his job.
Now there might be some agents that also work as the legal rep, but that’s rare in the business.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
This is probably it right here.
But what does Bellator want from zuffa contracts?
by destructivist on Jul 29, 2010 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Is this something that actually hurt Zuffa’s bottom line
That’s really not the point, you can’t use something that belongs to someone else without their permission, end of story. If Bellator was suing Zuffa for the same thing would you have the same view?
by ufc4 on Jul 29, 2010 9:49 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
I should have said “would you be asking the same questions”.
by ufc4 on Jul 30, 2010 9:24 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I think he was just speculating on what these “documents” are. Fighter contracts? Maybe something financial like sponsorship stuff? Who knows. I don’t think this was a “i’ve got a burning rake lets go witch hunting!” anti-zuffa thing at all.
by destructivist on Jul 29, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Really wondering what zuffa is looking for. Is this something that could put Bellator to rest and could the UFC acquire their fighter contracts if they are seeking money that Bellator doesn’t have.
by JCBee on Jul 29, 2010 9:50 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think the only way you can aquire a contract is if you buy the promotion, but my guess is if a company goes under their contracts are voided anyhow (me thinks).
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Ok. Just was wondering, so I guess if the UFC sues for more than they are worth or can pay they could come to some sort of agreement to buy the org and their contracts.
by JCBee on Jul 29, 2010 10:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm sure Zuffa will win this
but I don’t think it will be an insane amount of money, they’d need to prove what kind of info were vital to them and how it could be used in Bellator’s behalf for the same success. But I’m talking as if I knew what I’m talking about, don’t believe a word I write in this thread, it’s just my point of view in something I have no business talking about :p
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I think you’re pretty right on. It will be easy to force them to stop using their proprietary documents and such , but to collect damages (other than legal expenses) they would have to show that they were damaged in some way.
Your beliefs become your reality.
by Hardy's in your face on Jul 30, 2010 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Punitive damages can sometimes be awarded
As a deterrent to people doing it again, or deterring others from doing it.
An argument can be run that any assistance to a competitor damages Zuffa in some way, and they can work out some semi-plausible number (which is hard to verify) as to what that damage is worth over the next 5 years, say.
You could also calculate the value of the material stolen, by assessing the legal costs and internal labour spent in drafting all those documents. By purchasing the legal effort and spending internal time, Zuffa is creating IP which is valuable and any sharing of that IP to a competitor diminishes its value, hence a damage calculation can be done.
I wonder what this means for Pavia clients, or should I say his representation of his clients? I am guessing he will be excommunicated as far the UFC is concerned.
how many are there?
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
don't worry
you’re the original, dogg!
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
his reputation should go down the drain
like a lawyer or a doctor who passes on their client’s info.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
That ship sailed a long time ago.
Just Blog Guy - http://JustBlogGuy.wordpress.com/
by JustBlogGuy on Jul 29, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
ha
didn’t know that, to be honest I don’t know much about him
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
If there was a top 10 list of people who’d screw Zuffa over, he’d break top 5. The dude oozes slime.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 29, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Was he the manager involved in Brandon Vera’s issues & hiatus?
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 29, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotcha – then who was it?
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 29, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. Wasn’t trying to be coy. Somehow that part got axed from my response. Stupid phone.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 29, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Bellator, prepare for war.
Hard core MMA fan since UFC 99
by ChiCubs23 on Jul 29, 2010 9:53 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
3. Is this something that actually hurt Zuffa’s bottom line or is it another ploy to keep a smaller organization in check?
I’ll go with “neither”.
by smoogy2 on Jul 29, 2010 9:54 PM EDT reply actions 8 recs
That’s what I’m thinking, how about “protecting what is rightfully yours”.
by ufc4 on Jul 29, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
^ This
The whole ‘Zuffa hates all other MMA promoters’ meme is largely false.
They hate specific promoters for specific reasons.
They don’t mess with 90% of the smaller promoters out there. They only mess with the promoters who have crossed them in some way. To the best of my knowledge, the only promoters they have messed with are the IFL (poaching office staff), Affliction (poaching fighters backstage), and Strikeforce (sleeping with the enemy [Showtime]). Bellator just got added to that list.
They left Strikeforce alone until Fedor was signed.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 29, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they hate anyone who can potentially pose a threat to them
which there’s nothing wrong with it, if you’re a monopoly you should try to stay on top as long as possible, basic instincts of business. But on this particular issue, I don’t think it has anything to do with ‘hate’, but rather with ‘rights’. I’m usually on the other side of the argument when it comes to Zuffa, but geez, even I see how they are correct on this one.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Bodog posed a threat to them and they didn’t mess with them
WFA posed a threat to them and they didn’t mess with them
EliteXC posed a huge threat to them and they didn’t mess with them (aside from a few scathing youtube clips)
not mess with them legaly, but ‘hate’ them, as in letting their pitbull ‘DW’ run his mouth off on these promotions. DW was filled with anger when speaking about EliteXC and CBS. I never really thought Bodog and WFA any threats to the UFC, but that’s just my opinion from overseas (perhaps it was differently viewed in the US).
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Both Bodog and WFA took their shot in the PPV market.
That definitely made them a threat.
As far as Dana talking shit about EliteXC, that was the extent of it. He never sued them, never counter-programmed them, or any of the other stuff people whine about him doing to other promoters. Also, the only time he really went off on them was when they absolutely deserved it (Standgate and his “that’s fucking illegal” rant).
Add YAMMA to the list of potential PPV competitors that Zuffa left alone.
There have been a ton of competitors Zuffa has left alone. They don’t go after other promoters willy-nilly. There is always a reason.
come on man
Yamma? really? just because you’re on PPV doesn’t mean your a threat. but companies like EXC and Strikeforce were potential threats for the simple fact of being on network TV and reaching a big audience.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I don't think they had any issue with Bellator per se,
But you can’t let someone just blatently steal from you and do nothing.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 30, 2010 3:42 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I never said they sued promotions they felt were threats
I think they hate anyone who can potentially pose a threat to them
never used the word ‘sue’ here. And from my recollection they started dissing EXC as soon as they signed Kimbo, saying that it was a disgrace to have him on their roster.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I agree that Dana, and Zuffa by proxy, have a strong dislike for promotions
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Way to twist words
That is not at all what orcus said.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
Pretty much is what he said.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
No it's not
He even specifically quotes what he said. So like I said, don’t twist words please.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
you guys just like fighting each other :p
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I was tired
And I found his very glib reiteration of your comments annoying and disingenuous.
Support independent artists
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
Justin Timberlake's heartfelt song to ex-Britney Spears
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I meant promotions that could potentially pose a threat to them
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
This
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 30, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Never thought this would happen but… rec.
by Applejack McNeil on Jul 29, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I think everybody thinks of Zuffa as this big bully that no one else can possible pick on. In fact, when they are wronged, people actual try to find how Zuffa may be at some sort of fault.
Despite how much good they’ve done for their fields, they’re both companies headed by people who can be complete tools.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 29, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
….and are without a doubt one of, if not THE greatest leaders in innovation in their respective fields who also happen to be hugely successful.
by ufc4 on Jul 30, 2010 9:28 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don’t think any of us can say for sure without knowing what the ufc’s contracts entail. Their contracts may have certain stipulations that are appealing to fighters and their contracts being used by bellator could lead to future prospects choosing bellator over the ufc or up and coming prospects being tied to bellator in longer contracts when the ufc is seeking that talent.
by JCBee on Jul 29, 2010 10:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Zuffa lawyers scare me.
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com and MMAFighting.com, mma enthusiast
by ekc on Jul 29, 2010 10:01 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I got a letter from them once…it wasn’t fun.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 29, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
did you frame it?
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 29, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
for the record I totally would
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 29, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a feeling he’ll say no comment to that one.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Blackout612 on Jul 29, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s getting noticed to say the least
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 29, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
God, I almost shit my pants. We talked to lawyers and decided we were fine. And we were…
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 29, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Any chance you can tell us what the issue were?
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 29, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
it's probably related to either race or nationality
I kid :p
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
by Orcus on Jul 29, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Two chapters in Total MMA about the Zuffa family and their acquisition of the UFC..
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 29, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
pre or post publishing?
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 29, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Pre. I was afraid there would be no book for a minute.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 29, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
They just wanted a glimpse to see what you wrote before it hit the shelves?
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 29, 2010 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
damn
glad it was resolved and the book still came out
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 29, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
If you don't hear from a lawyer, you haven't written a good book
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow – that’s serious – not some back-room squabbling. Congrats on surviving the Zuffa Legal Machine.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 29, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm Black, I got the bootleg...HOLLA
PURPLE DRANK
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
as been partial to the Easter pink Sprite
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 29, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
GRIP AND SIP
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
Motherfucking seconded...
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I don’t understand, they are doing the same thing any other company would do to protect their property. If Zuffa was doing this to Bellator do you think Bellator wouldn’t sue?
by ufc4 on Jul 29, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If these claims are true, you don’t look at this as stealing?
by KAN0 on Jul 29, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Of course it would be, I'm not an idiot.
I just think it’s pathetic that Zuffa would spend the necessary time and money to dig up this dirt and put Bellator under when in reality it could really use Bellator as a feeder org. Their tournament system can make a star quick like the Pride GPs did whereas it’s a bit tougher to do so with the UFC’s current format.
but if it comes out that they know about it and they don’t sue, that will hurt them if someone that can damage them comes around and does it again.
by Phildo on Jul 29, 2010 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If they let Bellator get away with it then they have set up a presedent for everyone to be able to get away with it too. For the UFC to not protect it’s corporate property and secrets would be a bad thing.
I’m not sure they spent resources trying to dig up this info, someone from inside Bellator probably gave it to them.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
by Orcus on Jul 29, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Back in 2006, a coke employee tried to sell a new coke recipe to Pepsi. Pepsi actually acted ethically and reported the incident to police and Coca Cola. Here is an interesting article about that incident and talks about trade secrets in general. Here is a quote from the article that I think fits this situation perfectly, “Despite the fierce competition in this industry, it should also be fair.”
by Dropkick434 on Jul 29, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Perfect.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 30, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
its not as simple as your claims being “true.” in a nutshell of a nutshell, you argue how certain precedent or regulations protect what you claim to be “trade secrets,” and the other side uses precedent cases or regulations to claim otherwise. it this is something which hasn’t been directly addressed before in whatever jurisdiction is controlling, it really could come down to who has smarter/better lawyers than who is actually right or wrong.
if this really is about contract models or clauses for fighters, I don’t think I’ve ever heard of something like that being “trade secrets,” and it seems like if that was the case, Zuffa would’ve attacked other organizations long before Bellator. either way, sometimes you sue like this just to see what will stick because, frankly, Zuffa can afford to and Bellator probably can’t. if Bellator can’t afford to continue litigation (assuming it gets that far), Zuffa can win by default, regardless of the credibility of their claim (see: Scientology).
Yes, they're going to need to prove WHAT intellectual properties were infringed upon
I’m thinking they’re hoping that Bellator and Pavia slip up and let them know.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
based on the ridiculousness of the email language, I’m guessing Zuffa doesn’t have to hope for too much. if there was ever a way to just make yourself SOUND like you were stealing something, Pavia and Bellator did it.
by sBruce24 on Jul 29, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Wow
Don’t ever start your own business.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Blackout612 on Jul 29, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
If someone from McDonalds was mailing the people at Burger King about the way they cook their fries, you don’t think there would be some kind of backlash?
Pavia is in a deep world of shit if these allegations are true, you know how the UFC blackballs fighters that do stupid crap, I can only imagine what they will do to an agent that trades corporate secrets.
It will be like the Hollywood Ten, UFC style.
they fry their fries!
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
in Soylent Green
… that’s why they taste so yummy.
McDonald’s fries are people!!!!!
by Steve4192 on Jul 29, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Very nice
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 30, 2010 5:02 AM EDT up reply actions
The most interesting post in this topic will come from Michael Rome.
Let us summon him with the giant statue of an Owl.
by DirtyML on Jul 29, 2010 10:04 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Does anyone think those emails sound fake?
They sound like the script from a bad movie where the evil genius conveniently reveals his diabolical plans so that he can be easily tripped up later. I mean, “You’ve been great about sending us ‘All’ of the seminal docs from the UFC, so that we can re-do them and implement them for Bellator.” C’mon! All that’s missing is the evil laugh — MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Then again, I have read some stupid stuff uncovered in discovery, so my recommendation is always to say sensitive stuff over the phone. Unfortunately, people are so interested in covering their ass, they usually try to get it in writing.
by Pantherhare on Jul 29, 2010 10:06 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
VERY fake.
Rebney doesn’t strike me as a guy stupid enough to discuss such a damning deal as this via email.
his Dad really is the Winnebago man
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 29, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
It's worded too well
It’s like he’s conveniently recapping everything that happened between them.
If it’s fake then the suit won’t go anwhere, I can’t imagine that Zuffa went to the trouble to start down this road without building a case for them being legitimate. That will be a key issue in the court case and you know Zuffa’s lawyers are aware of that too.
Exactly, Zuffa’s team isn’t going into this without feeling confident that they have something legit.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 29, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
emails can be verified by the provider I believe if ordered by a court
so if Zuffa was making all this up they’d be in trouble
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I don’t know how anyone can be upset with zuffa for this suit. Despite what u may think contracts are complicated and zuffa has probably spent millions and lost millions over the years while perfecting the contracts they offer fighters. For them to not want this information freely shared is smart business. These were what they are titles “trade secrets” and bellator should have to pay for trying to steal them. And Pavia should be banned as an agent for any zuffa fighter as he can not be trusted any longer.
by JCBee on Jul 29, 2010 10:11 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 9 recs
Agree 100% with this comment. It is all the crap they (UFC) had to go through to get where they are that they want to keep secret. For a smaller competitor to have free access to these contracts for copying is the issue. They should have to find out the hard way (and pay) like the UFC had to….. no free business templates to copy
If you like this or you didn't be sure to air your dissapointment.
by NOTASMARTMAN.com on Jul 29, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly.
It has taken Zuffa 10 years of trial and error to get to their contracts as neat and tidy as they are today. Bellator just skipped that entire process by stealing those contracts.
but contractual terms aren’t the same thing as, say, the original Coca-Cola recipe or Apple’s iPhone4 designs. contracts are as restrictive as you want them to be. its not so much that it took Zuffa 10 years to get them “as neat and tidy”, but more so that Zuffa wouldn’t have the negotiating leverage to impose some of the same terms 10 years ago.
That's going to be the bone of contention in proving damage
How much different is the Zufffa contract to your average contract (specifically in MMA).?
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I just read your article. Good stuff.
I get the funny feeling that the existence of the emails and the villainous tone and blatant cut-and-paste lingo makes more of a case for Zuffa than Bellator’s actual contracts. I just don’t think Zuffa’s claims will hold muster in the end, but they may not have to b/c Bellator/Pavia have certainly opened a door with their rhetoric and really don’t have the finances or legal muscle to answer any courtroom challenge by Zuffa.
They will Legal and Beagle to a boring decision
or possibly force Pavia and Bellator to tap due to a lack of funding
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think the correct answer to the difference between Zuffa’s contract and the average MMA contract is negotiating leverage. But the fact that in the emails they’re like “f*** it, just copy everything and tell us what it does for us,” means they can’t just claim they don’t have the lawyers and clout to play hardball like the UFC normally.
Interesting
If this is true, nice try by Bellator. If they found a way to get a good look at UFCs best practices, all power to them.
Sloppy sloppy work though getting caught. Now they’ll have to pay the piper.
is it possible
to leave a negative rec?
twitter.com/GotaHemmi
instrength.com <-- Best MMA forum
by Brian Hemminger on Jul 29, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus one to the negative rec
The last thing MMA needs is more accusations of shady business practices and more reasons for the media to shit on MMA.
Jeremiah Johnson, Cageside Seats
Follow me @J_JohnsonMMA
by Jeremiah Johnson. on Jul 29, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree. We should just look away and pretend this isn’t happening. That’ll address the situation…
by Meeaaat on Jul 29, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ken Pavia
…is a jerk anyway. Remember those blogs he posted way back when and he dropped names at a ridiculous rate? He thinks he is a super star, but he’s a doofus.
Plus he’s fat and wears tight shirts that accentuate his fatness.
by FightCardHammer on Jul 29, 2010 10:18 PM EDT reply actions
And plays with his iPhone
while cornering fighters, even there’s no real reason for him to be cornering a fighter.
by Scott Haber on Jul 29, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
a set up perhaps?
an Bellator employee wanting to get on at Zuffa compromised the docs maybe?
whatever the case.. this is not good for Bellator.
… or a former Zuffa employee who wants his old job back.
Bellator has more than a few former Zuffa employees on staff.
QUESTION..
What types of docs may be involved?
I know no one knows for sure but what type of stuff would even possibly fit the bill?
Just curious.
Could this be a Bellator killer?
Michael Rome will know
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 29, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
we need more lawyers in this community!
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Rome will suffice
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 29, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
the problem is the wait
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
That’s lawyer instinct they bill by the hour
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 29, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Most lawyers charge by 6 minute increments.
by Dropkick434 on Jul 29, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Any document, for the most part, can be converted upon
As long as they aren’t available to the public domain.
I wrote a summary of the legality behind the suit at WKR.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I got shit for "shilling" in another thread, so I've decided to refrain from posting links.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
He called this a thread!
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Blackout612 on Jul 29, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a thread of comments
On a normal forum, this would be called “threaded view” instead of the more popular “linear view”.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
You missed the joke
The staff is often sensitive to people calling the comments section a “thread” because this isn’t a message board.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Blackout612 on Jul 29, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm new here. Sue me. /no Pavia
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Blackout612 on Jul 29, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
They don’t get it Dana is that “secret sauce”
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 29, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Why so Scott Coker can just lay down and give them to Vadim?
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 29, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Bjorn’s dad was a salesman this is pretty standard stuff. I remember opening a new dealership and the first day the owner comes in on the cell phone reading off the fax machine number. In about five minutes we had the competing dealer’s doc, inventory, ad budget, up count, and balance on every vehicle they had on the lot. Not sure how much it cost him but it seemed pretty easy.
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 29, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
My mind, it's blown.
So many people jumping in here saying “Fucking Zuffa, what a bunch of dicks.”…if all this info is actually legit, does this not make Bellator more underhanded than the frequently bashed M-1 Global? I mean, Bellator puts on great fights, but I’m not gonna stand up and bitch about Zuffa coming out swinging in regards to this…that’s incomprehensible in my mind.
Zuffa’s legal time rarely gets their shit wrong, I’m sure they wouldn’t have came out with something as serious as this unless it was well put together. Once again, just can’t figure why people would paint Zuffa in a bad light when it seems that the only one at fault here would be Bellator.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 29, 2010 10:30 PM EDT reply actions
If this all turns out to be true it could be the end for a lot of promotions. Impact isn’t paying promptly and DREAM seems to be on wobbly legs. Puji Money might be the last hope.
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 29, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I am sure none of these people would be pissed if they were paying lawyers and executives big time cash to put together a contract that was a huge part of the success of your business plan only to find out some asshole stole it and is using it as their own in the same industry.
by Dropkick434 on Jul 29, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish someone would dig into Bjorn Rebney’s background and write something on him. I know he had a falling out with Sugar Ray Leonard years ago but other than that not much has been written about his boxing past.
Someone posted these links on the last Bellator post about Rebney
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/2004-10-19-leonard-business_x.htm
http://ringtalk.com/the-real-story-behind-sugar-ray-leonard-bjorn-rebney-the-fbi-a-dead-dog
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
Yea I have seen both of those and it’s stories like that that got me wondering if there was more to this guy besides his father being Youtube famous. There just doesn’t seem to be a lot out there on the internet about him but I was wondering if there are long time followers of the boxing industry that know more about him.
It's stuff like this that makes me wonder about the guy.
We have written at length, both in “Operation Cleanup: A Blueprint for Boxing Reform” and this volume, about what we perceive to be the inherent dishonesty of Bjorn Rebney, president of Sugar Ray Leonard Boxing. None of the claims coming out of the Mesi camp sound foreign. And juxtaposing some of the clauses in the contract against what really happened serves to illustrate what has gone wrong in SRL’s relationship not just with Mesi but in every fighter the company has dealt with.
http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-article/1000/sugar-ray-very-mesi-business/
Jack Mesi was particularly critical of SRLB CEO Bjorn Rebney.
“Bjorn Rebney is going to make Don King look like a choirboy,” Jack Mesi said. “Everything Leonard and Rebney touch has turned to crap. They’ve been sued from coast to coast, by fighters, managers and venues.”
In one of the lawsuits, brought by the Myrtle Beach Area Sports Council, which alleged that SRLB took a $75,000 advance, then failed to deliver a fight card, the ex-champ’s co-defendant was Bobby Mitchell — who has been indicted on federal charges of fixing a fight. SRLB itself took five years to launch, due to a lawsuit by two former partners, who alleged that Leonard and Rebney fired them to avoid paying them for their services.
it seems that the only one at fault here would be Bellator.
Well, Bellator AND Pavia.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Jul 29, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
To everyone that thinks this is "petty" and Zuffa should leave poor little Bellator alone
…do yourself a favor and never start your own business. If this is true, Zuffa has every right to take this matter seriously. As a small business owner that handles confidentiality agreements and proprietary information on a day to day basis, I know first hand how infuriating it is for someone to illegally use your intellectual property. Who knows what the extent of this will be— it isn’t made clear what these “procedures” are. It’s possible that Zuffa, themselves, are using this action to discover what has actual exchanged hands between Pavia and Rebney. I’d wager that he doesn’t have access to any deeply important information. His relationship to Zuffa is as an agent and one that is not well like, at that.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
How many fighters jump ship on the Pav?
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 29, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
No idea and don’t really want to speculate until I hear more. It’s possible this could all turn out to be some minor instance, but it was worth reporting.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Blackout612 on Jul 29, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know. I’m sure Zuffa has a pretty high priced legal team you’d think they would be pretty sure before starting that tab.
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 29, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Nuh-uh, don’t lie Pav, we know all.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 29, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish someone in a situation like this would come out and say something like:
You can’t catch me, I’m the gingerbread man!
Tell me this wiki page wasn't written by Ken himself...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Pavia
Pavia is renowned for his work ethic, and through his tireless efforts he has managed to grow a once small agency into the largest in the mixed martial arts industry
There’s a LOT of goodies in there. What a fun read.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jul 29, 2010 10:44 PM EDT reply actions
Knowing Ken Pavia's personality
It wouldn’t surprise me at all if his wikipedia page is his home page
Jeremiah Johnson, Cageside Seats
Follow me @J_JohnsonMMA
by Jeremiah Johnson. on Jul 29, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont remember all the details from my business law class but i remember my professor talking about how hard it was to actually prove that something is a trade secret. Im kind of curious what the documents were because im pretty sure it couldnt possibly the way the contract is formulated. You can’t exclusively use a type of contract.
So where exactly are the trade secrets inherent within the fighter contracts? I understand that certain contract clauses may be in heavy use by Zuffa and carry more weight because of how powerful Zuffa is. I’m a lawyer, but I’ve never heard of a situation where the actual terms of an employment contract (as I believe would be the case between fighters and a promotion) to actually in and of themselves be “trade secrets.”
by sBruce24 on Jul 29, 2010 11:04 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I would think they would be more akin to service contracts instead of “employment contracts”. The fighters don’t actually work for Zuffa they provide Zuffa with a service (fights on a event) and do occasional press work for Zuffa.
ok, but even then, I’m inclined to agree with Rabbit915. what would be the actual terms of their contracts that have a certain “quality of confidence”? whatever clauses or terms of their contracts (assumedly) are being identified by Zuffa, it would seem to be not that they are hidden or “not generally known”, but rather that Zuffa is the only company which normally has the clout to impose some of the restrictive clauses and terms that they do.
Is it about the restrictive clauses? Heck we don’t really know what this is about, the story just said “trade secrets and confidential Zuffa documents ”. This could be fighter contracts or tv contracts or any number of things here. We can’t narrow it down to it being about specific restrictive clauses in a UFC fighter contract (unless someone knows more about this that the article is stating).
I agree, but the general consenus on the thread is that its about fighter contracts, and I believe fighter agreements were mentioned in the complaint, so I was just going with that line of thought.
Yea I sort of got off track there, my point was that it didn’t just have to be the “restrictive clauses”, it could be anything and everything in there that is supposed to be confidential information not just the restrictions in there. Everything from pay terms to signing bonus terms to sponsorship issues to agreements in the contract outside of the fights that could come into play here. Lets face it there isn’t really anything at all in a confidential Zuffa contract that Bellator should have access too. We don’t really know much about what is in a Zuffa contract currently so it’s hard for us to say what the issue would be.
These emails show that Pavia explicitly helped Bjorn Rebney design the onerous, UFC-like contracts that Bellator holds over fighters like Dave Herman and Jorge Masvidal when things go sideways. Why would an agent conspire with a promoter to clone UFC contracts for Bellator? I can think of two very good reasons: to ingratiate himself to the promoter, and to help create a similar framework to the one in the UFC that has made a lot of money for Pavia at the expense of the countless overmatched club fighters he has pumped and dumped through their lower ranks. Bellator has this hokey sales pitch to sponsors about being in 500 billion homes when you combine all their weak TV deals, and we know Pavia makes his bread on the sponsor side as much as anything. If I was a Pavia client fighting for Bellator, I’d be contacting my attorney right about now. This sounds like a pretty serious conflict of interest, not to mention a damning glimpse into how Pav views the fighters he works for
by smoogy2 on Jul 29, 2010 11:15 PM EDT reply actions 11 recs
Man-most MMA fighters can’t afford to hire an attorney!
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 29, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Idea for a TV series: MMA fighter and contract lawyer (based on Nick Thompson) starts a non-profit defense fund for his fellow athletes and travels the country battling evil fight promoters.
this is the bestest analysis of this i've seen
i could really care less about zuffa filing suit. that’s a no brainer if someone swipes your confidential docs and gives them to a competitor.
to me the interesting things are:
1) how did Zuffa get the emails?
2) wtf is Pavia doing screwing his fighters like this?
3) does this mean “it’s on” between Zuffa and Bellator?
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jul 29, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Seriously, this isn’t even about Zuffa. I can answer the one mystery pertaining to their involvement easily: they got the emails because between Ken Pavia, Bjorn Rebney and Sam Caplan, there is more than enough bad karma to inspire someone (probably an outgoing employee) to expose them.
Pavia has like 20 fighters in Bellator. Despite his many flaws, he is in fact known for being able to get his clients on TV. This is all about building his business and getting the inside track on Bellator bookings.
Aside from reaming Bellator in court (I assume this case will be heard in Nevada), I don’t think Zuffa will put any public effort into burying them. They’re doing fine already with their policy of isolation.
by smoogy2 on Jul 30, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i could really care less about zuffa filing suit.
Not to be an ass, but the term is “I couldn’t care less.” Saying you could care less implies the opposite of what you’re trying to convey.
No. “Could care less” is a set phrase meaning exactly the same thing as “Couldn’t care less”. Deal with it. You can’t use logic on set phrases.
More on the subject: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2345
It doesn’t make sense. Show me two other idioms that mean the same, but look like logical opp.
I’m not a native English speaker, but my guess is that “could care less” is so common language mistake, that it transfered as a correct phrase. Similar situation takes place in many languages, so I don’t think it’s any different in English. The culture of language is dying, unfortunately.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 30, 2010 5:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Could care less is wrong
But it has been accepted as correct for so long, it has creeped into the country’s wordbanks.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions
No. It is an idiom. Of course it doesn’t make logical sense at all, but that is neither here nor there. Perhaps it started out as a mistake, but now it an accepted part of everyday American English (not in British, as far as I can gather).
Also, the culture of language is not dying.
Do you read? Cause I just said that.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought he was ageeing with you
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 30, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
He started off with NO.
YOU DONT FUCKIN TELL ME NO!!!!1111
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 31, 2010 7:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that was replying to my comment. Which doesn’t make sense either…
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 31, 2010 7:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not being rude, it’s just this “no” that doesn’t fit, because you pretty much agreed with what I, or BL have said.
I’m learning British English, so I see this a mistake. Just like “ain’t”, it’s also a mistake, but it’s generally accepted.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Aug 1, 2010 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, the culture of language is not dying.
Well, as I’ve said earlier, common mistakes are being accepted, because they’re…common. To me, it’s bastardization of the language (I’m talking about native languages, mine at least). Maybe “dying language culture” doesn’t transfer into English as I thought. When I was starting my education, people were putting emphasis on language correctness. Nowadays, seems like teachers have gave up.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 31, 2010 6:38 AM EDT up reply actions
4) If it really is about the fighter contracts, is Zuffa reasoning for going after Bellator,more defensive in nature? In other words are they upset that the language they put in their contracts, language they use to add champion clauses and other small print details giving them all the leverage, is now in a Bellator contract and could be used to keep a fighter away from the UFC? Or more importantly could be challenged by a fighter in a court, and possible win when the defense (Bellator) won’t have as much sugar at their disposal as Zuffa does? Could be precedent Zuffa doesn’t want to see.
5) Could I hypothesize more on something I know so little about?
If the emails are authentic, then it shows that Pavia took UFC contracts and gave them to Bellator. If that meets the legal definition of theft of trade secrets, then of course they’re going to defend themselves, right?
5) Could I hypothesize more on something I know so little about?
Isn’t that why the internet was created? Well that and porn.
I’m pretty sure it’s just for porn.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Jul 30, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
This is what I’ve been led to believe, yes.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 30, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Collusion as well as conflict of interest
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow………..Show Money passes along confidential Zuffa documents to Bellator in an effort to allow Bellator to steal Zuffa’s ideas, and people are upset with Zuffa for suing?
I knew MMA fans could be dense, but I didn’t realize they were this dense…….
Check out my MMA highlight videos!
http://www.dailymotion.com/WheelchairBandit
Somehow, someway
This is Kid Nate’s fault.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
by SSreporters on Jul 29, 2010 11:32 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
I wouldn't be surprised if the shady Bellator guy is helping the UFC run Pavia out of business
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 11:44 PM EDT reply actions
That is basically the devil card.
Literally he would have to be this evil
by destructivist on Jul 29, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
But from what was posted above about sugar ray, it seems like Bjorn isn't so squeaky clean after all.
by destructivist on Jul 29, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t figure out if he’s an evil bastard or just a typical boxing promoter (or if there is actually any difference in the two) but there does seem to be some real stinky stuff in Bjorn Rebney’s past.
Definitely
Dana white’s fanboi legion will rejoice that Dana was right about slimy boxing promoters trying to come over and milk MMA. Gary Shaw and Bjorn (if this is true) kind of proved that.
hey….wait a minute…
by destructivist on Jul 30, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
That's why it makes it so likely
He’s running out of money and goes to the UFC and says “Hey, I need money and Pavia is showing me your contracts.”
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Stock comment
Pro-zuffa sue everyone out of business. Pav,bellator everyone else close shop.
Signed,
90% of the commentors on this thread
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Jul 29, 2010 11:50 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Locker room bonuses
The Pav clearly shared with bellator exactly what the infamous locker room bonuses really are. Now if we can just get our hands in the emails……………
by RoB_ex on Jul 30, 2010 12:21 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
1. How did Zuffa obtain these e-mails? It seems odd to me that this sort of communication would reach eyeballs not belonging to Bjorn Rebney and Ken Pavia. Someone else must have received them, however, if they fell into Zuffa’s hands.
I’m not passing any judgment on the case until we get both sides of the story; just wanted to comment on this question.
From working with security before I do know that as long as you are in the employment of the company (in some states it varies I’m sure) they can pull your email or interrogate you and it can be used in court as long as you are still employed at the time of the emailing or other info.
But damn if it’s not weird looking. I mean, could you possibly write something to make yourself look even more guilty than what they have listed up there?? seems awfully convenient.
"Jeremy Shane.. Easily the best writer on BE with initials J.S.!" - mmarazorback
Doesn't apply in this case
Pavia is not an employee of Zuffa. He is an employee of the fighters.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Snowden or Rome, explain this… you guys are lawyers, aren’t you?
by The Bronzeville Bully on Jul 30, 2010 2:03 AM EDT reply actions
I explained it over at WKR, Nate posted a link upwards
http://www.watchkalibrun.com/2010/7/29/1595666/breaking-news-ufc-suing-mma-agent
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 3:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Since Pavia posts on the UG I thought I would check there and see if he had anything to say in his defense or what other interesting things were being said.
This post by paraguaio caught my attention:
WOW that is AWWWWWWEEESOME that lil prick was scared shitless every time he walked passed me in my last Bellator fight, lil BITCH.
I hope that Bellator goes under for being fucking pimps and terminating my contract with one fight left in it. I took a fight on a 2 day notice because I’m always the idiot that tries to be a team player and fight anyone at anytime when they ask, left my moms house from Orlando at midnight to the Hard Rock in Hollywood, Florida.
Woke up at 7 am to get my medicals done (they said they would pay for it so cool right?!) my purse had to be a miserable $2500 and $2500 because I had a four fight deal with the company but they made it $1500 and $1500.
(Long story short in January I talked to the company about fighting two more times for them to finish my contract or to let me go so I go make money somewhere else and Sam Caplan said that they wouldn’t use West Coast fighters this season so I asked him for my release papers and he said he would send it to me but he never did)
Back to the fighting day again! when I asked him to bump up my purse like it said on the contract he said that the email he had sent me was like a RELEASE or TERMINATION of my contract wich is bull shit because he said and I have the email that says the he would send me the release form.
End of story I win my fight in a fucking war in my first fight at 85 against a huge guy that came down from 205 to find it that they even took out of my purse the money for my medicals that they said they would pay because I took the fight on such short notice.
That’s why the UFC is the MacDaddy of all.
Mikey Gomez…
Link to page that quote can be found on: http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum.posts&forum=1&thread=1679080&page=2
I’m sure Bellator has a different version of what happened with this fighter but with the way these types of things from fighters seem to be piling up against Bellator it really makes it hard to believe the Bellator version of the conflicts.
Just BE.
by mattman73 on Jul 30, 2010 2:18 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
The last line says it all.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 30, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Say it aint so Bellator,
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
I guess I had this...
preconceived notion that Bellator was this pure and great organization. They were doing MMA the right way, the way it’s supposed to be done. They cultivated plenty of hopeful names and gave anyone a shot who looked promising. They had tournaments and GP and things like that. I kind of assumed the people behind it were legit people for some reason. Not sure why.
Hope it isn’t true.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Just because they presented a product you like doesn’t mean they are good people. We tend to forget a lot of times that the interest of the fans and the interest of the fighters/promotions isn’t always the same thing. A sweater made in a sweat shop in SE Asia and a sweater knitted by a kindly grandmother are both still just sweaters and when you get down to it the one from the sweat shop is probably much cheaper and may be better made too.
by who me on Jul 30, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That was my point. I hope you were just echoing my sentiments and not arguing with me..
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Sounds like Bellator just shat the promotional bed.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
Role of Agent
Aside from Smoogy—in the original article, and all the follow up comments, no one raised this issue, which is somewhat amazing.
If the allegations are true, and the AGENT actually assisted the promotion in drafting promotional agreements, WHO THE F#*# is acting as the agent of the fighter?
That is a gross conflict of interest, and is the most interesting aspect of these charges. Fighters—if your AGENT is assisting the promotion in drafting agreements, find a new agent immediately. That agent is directly hostile to your self-interest. There is no other way to sugar coat it.
by Rob Maysey on Jul 30, 2010 5:13 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I think this is an issue that will flesh itself out later when more information is known, right now statements are so vague and we really don’t know exactly what “trade secrets and confidential Zuffa documents” are involved. If the story turns out to be true and the information given is what people are assuming it is then I would imagine that the backlash against Pavia from fighters and the press will be huge. I’m sure you won’t let this subject slip into the cracks once solid information becomes public.
Pavia and Rebney could actually go to jail over this
Theft of Trade secrets is a federal offence, Pavia and Rebney could end spending up to ten years in federal if Zuffa hands evidence over to the FBI. While Bellator faces a five million dollar fine.
I suppose I’ll check out the UG to become moreso.
a kitten dies every time you compare an individual sport to a team sport.
by Marvin Malehooves on Jul 30, 2010 6:30 AM EDT reply actions
5:30 am fail
a kitten dies every time you compare an individual sport to a team sport.
by Marvin Malehooves on Jul 30, 2010 6:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been hearing unsavory things about Bellator and their contracts since before they held their first event. I’ve been continually amazed at how many good fighters and prospects they’ve been able to snatch up.
I think the money that comes with winning a Bellator tourney
Is a lot more than most prospects can come in and grab from a promotion like Strikeforce or the UFC.
While we're on this topic
Have any of the champs/tourney winners reported problems with not getting paid/getting screwed around etc.,?
by destructivist on Jul 30, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I call BS
I’m an attorney (so you should not believe any of what I’m about to say) and I deal with confidentiality agreements reasonably frequently. If what’s alleged is true and this guy was bound by a confidentiality agreement, he’s got to be violating whatever confidentiality agreements are in place. I’d be interested to know what Zuffa / the UFC thinks its damages are. It probably hopes that it can win this suit in order to bring a follow up suit against Bellator to sue them on a damages theory that’s unclear to me.
Those e-mails seem doctored to me. They so perfectly make the UFC’s case that I simply can’t beleive he actually wrote them. Why would you capitalize “All” like that? I suppose you could imagine some context that might be appropriate in, but it seems dubious.
It seems more than likely that these e-mails were dreamt up by some mediocre attorney (or executive) at the UFC as a way to create a cover for an attack on Bellator. I would need to read the complaint to be sure, but the UFC’s likely wasting its time. Bellator will destroy any documents they received and probably, if they are guilty, have made enough modifications to everything the UFC has done that it will be highly difficult for the UFC to prove that their marketing plan, fighter or sponsor contracts, contacts with venues, etc. served as the bases for the agreements, and even if they can prove this, it’s unclear how this damages the UFC — there would either need to be a statute that imposes a minimum fine for this sort of thing or they’d need to argue that the incremental benefit to Bellator was X and Bellator should be disgorged of X — and how would they possibly demonstrate this? In all likelihood, the UFC also isn’t going to get a judge to tell Bellator that it has to tear up all of its contracts and marketing plans and to enjoin them from using any of the, e.g., agreements based on the UFC’s contracts, because that would impact innoncent third parties (e.g., the fighters — thus it’s not a very equitable remedy) and be out of proportion to any damage caused.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Jul 30, 2010 1:54 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Anti-trust
As a lawyer could you possibly see an anti-trust suit in Zuffa’s future?
It seems like all these “interfearance” suits are an aim to create a monopoly.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Jul 30, 2010 2:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree
In law school I actually interned at the DOJ’s antitrust division and from time to time help advise on antitrust matters (although the firm I work at has attorneys devoted to antitrust law so I really just intermediate between the experts and the client in most cases); nevertheless I’m far from an expert and you typically need to be an expert to even have a shot at accurately predicting these sort of things, so I certainly wouldn’t take what I say as gospel.
Putting that caveat to one side, I would say “yes” in response to your question. I don’t know whether Zuffa is on anyone’s radar at the moment at the DOJ, unless people who are being “harassed” by Zuffa are making complaints. As the complaints build, the DOJ would make an internal decision whether to investigate Zuffa further. That they have made such a determination would not necessarily be made public. If they filed suit against Zuffa or the UFC, that definitely would be public.
You can also be privately sued for antitrust infractions, but I would guess that most of these promotions (perhaps except for Strikeforce) don’t have the resources or sophistication necessary to bring such a suit. As a result, I doubt we’ll see any serious antitrust suit lodged against Zuffa or the UFC unless it’s by the government.
If I were Zuffa’s attorney, since it’s the 800 lb gorilla in MMA, I would tell them that they need to be very careful about taking actions that could be construed as attempts to create a monopoly — all of the counterprogramming and statements Dana makes about rival promotions would make me very nervous. I’m guessing that the UFC and Zuffa execs view lawyers as jokers and generally don’t consult them before doing anything.
I’m actually somewhat surprised that we haven’t seen an antitrust suit yet. If I were Bellator or Strikeforce I would be in the DOJ’s ear telling them about each and every anticompetitive action that the UFC has taken in the hope that they launch an investigation, and being the subject of an investigation is costly, disruptive and unpleasant. The UFC definitely doesn’t want any of that.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Jul 30, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Those e-mails seem doctored to me. They so perfectly make the UFC’s case that I simply can’t beleive he actually wrote them. Why would you capitalize "All" like that? I suppose you could imagine some context that might be appropriate in, but it seems dubious.
I thought so too, but I think you also underestimate how poor most people write. It’s astounding.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
by Mike Fagan on Jul 30, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you're right
I was just about to write a post stating that my intuition was clearly wrong given the update. I think what I say about damages and the like still stands although I’m starting to view this law suit less as a nefarious cover to go after Bellator and more as a legitimate attempt to bring a bad actor to justice more or less — If this guy was bound by a confi and sent all of these documents to Bellator, the UFC clearly has a right to teach at least the agent a lesson in order to discourage others from doing the same thing. I still don’t think a law suit against Bellator is a good idea because it’s unclear what the remedy is but perhaps, if the UFC was looking for an opportunity (and some cover) to show Bellator it’s not to be messed with, this is their chance.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Jul 30, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I never saw this a them going after Bellator or any kind of antitrust issue at all, yea the email’s were crazy but if they were faked then you would think that Bellator would of said that when they finally released a statement. It looks like they are going after Pavia and Bellator was just the ones that recieved the documents in question so they became part of this. Of course looking back at Bjorn Rebney’s past history from boxing being an unsavory character involved with questionable situations is pretty common for him, as is being the defendant in lawsuits.
I don’t think Bellator is the target here. Pavia has been a Zuffa enemy since Rebney was still promoting boxing…
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 31, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
That's my belief too
I touched on it yesterday. This just seems to be a big end-around to get Pavia out of the UFC totally.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 31, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Those e-mails seem doctored to me. They so perfectly make the UFC’s case that I simply can’t beleive he actually wrote them. Why would you capitalize "All" like that? I suppose you could imagine some context that might be appropriate in, but it seems dubious.
The only reason I could see is that Rebney knows Pavia has a reputation as a snake, and wanted to make sure that the Pav was implicated just in case Ken ever got any ideas about blackmailing Bellator. Sometimes mutually assured destruction is the only deterrent when dealing with an unsavory character like the Pav.
by Steve4192 on Jul 30, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec for use of mutually assured destruction
by destructivist on Jul 30, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
If you go to the Yahoo article and read it English appears to state the Rebney e-mails are in fact real.
English said Rebney’s email "was phrased in an unfortunate way."
To me it looks like the unfortunate part about the wording in the e-mails is that Rebney seems to contradict what English is saying now. Or maybe I’m confused but in the e-mail it appears Rebney states they are going to be rewording the UFC documents and using them. While English says that isn’t what is happening.
Just BE.
You’re right. I admit that my initial intuition (which was made before the update) was wrong above.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Jul 31, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Shockingly
There is no mention of this scandal at fivouncesofpain.com.
Tim Danaher, Bellator…
uuuhhhhhh the only connection between them I can think of is Lyman Good, who teaches at the same Manhattan Tiger Schulman as someone named Timothy Danaher. May not even be the same person. Probably doesnt mean anything.
Also…someone named John Danaher is one of GSPs assistant coaches on the new season of the ultimate fighter. Maybe he’s Tims brother and Tim got a hold of something through him and sent it to Bellator.
lolol none of this probably means anything. But Im bored…so…
Your style's like garbage cans meant to be taken out on a weekly basis
Ever since your first record you've been in a state of suspended animation
You look like Snuffleuffagus and Australopithecus
Me cray, you abacus
Had to steal this from the UG
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 30, 2010 5:09 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
I’ll be doing the same
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 30, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
