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Is the Dearth of Challengers for Georges St Pierre the UFC's Fault?

Has Georges St Pierre smothered the entire UFC welterweight division? Photo via UFC.com

That's what the gang at Pro MMA Radio think, including our man from MMA Mania, Jesse Holland (transcription via Fight Opinion):

LARRY PEPE: So, here's my thing, like what I don't understand with this division is you have now basically mowed down an Anthony Johnson fight that I think was marketable, a Paul Daley fight that I'm sure that was marketable, and you're risking a Shields fight that's ultra-marketable and instead, you got a Koscheck fight that, yeah, they'll market it, they'll work it with TUF and everything else, but at the end of the day, I'm sure if you did a poll, Jesse, and maybe you should, if people said hey, would you rather see Koscheck fight GSP, Shields, at the time Daley, Fitch, Alves, I'm willing to bet that the three guys that have fought him already finish in the three last positions because at the end of the day, I think we all want to see new challengers for champions. We're not that interested in re-matches unless the first fight was really close or controversial."

 

JESSE HOLLAND: "Well, I'll tell you, there was... there was one reaction in the history of in doing this for MMAMania, there was one reaction that I would say was equal to this and that was when they announced Liddell/Ortiz III. The fan reaction to this, nobody was screaming from the roof tops, nobody was applauding, just a complete and total indifference and we had the same exact thing when they announced Koscheck/St. Pierre after the Daley fight. Nobody really cared and nobody was really interested and you know it's one of those things... Good heat is what you want, bad heat is what you don't but it's still OK because it sells fights, no heat at all? Then you're in big trouble. I mean you got St. Pierre coming off two straight decisions. You've got a guy in Koscheck who doesn't really fight, you know, the kind of fight the fans want to see. And what happens, you know, after that? And here's my question - if Kampmann pulls off the win against Shields, does Kampmann goes into a GSP fight or does he get the winner of Fitch/Alves?"

Basically the complaint boils down to this -- GSP has already utterly dominated Jon Fitch, Josh Koscheck and Thiago Alves, but they keep feeding potential challengers like Anthony Johnson and Paul Daley to Koscheck and now they're risking a Jake Shields vs GSP megafight by putting Shields in against Martin Kampmann.

While I understand the logic, I have to disagree. The worst fights we've seen from GSP have been his dominating wins over Dan Hardy and Thiago Alves where he was reluctant to trade on the feet and unable to finish on the ground. I don't see what would have been different about GSP fights with Johnson or Daley. Against both fighters, GSP could simply score take downs and dominate from the top while grinding out a tedious decision win.

Shields I agree presents some interesting challenges for GSP and would likely be an entertaining fight as GSP would keep it on the feet and avoid the ground. 

Also, they characterize the Koscheck fight as a blowout for GSP, when it was actually more back and forth than that. Josh Koscheck, with his combination of knock out power on the feet and top notch wrestling, presents the most formidable challenge for GSP. There's every reason to believe that Koscheck has learned from his first loss, when he blithely assumed that GSP wouldn't be able to take him down, and will be prepared to fight for position in the rematch. 

Fundamentally the problem, if there is one, in the UFC's welterweight division is that Georges St Pierre is that rare athlete who stands head and shoulders above his competitors. If the UFC had cleared paths for lesser competitors like Daley and Johnson to get title shots, fans would only be complaining more after watching GSP "lay and pray" to easy decision wins. 

Having said that, it will be deeply unfortunate if Jake Shields can't get past Martin Kampmann and get a title shot. MMA is about styles as much as it is about fighters and Shields' combination of wrestling + jiu jitsu makes him uniquely dangerous to GSP, or at least presents a more novel challenge than one dimensional strikers like Hardy or Daley.

But that would imply that Martin Kampmann isn't a worthy challenger and I'd have to disagree there. He's incredibly well-rounded and has gone 4-1 as a middleweight and 4-1 as a welterweight in the UFC. Kampmann could provide a stern test for GSP, or give GSP a chance to score a dramatic KO win. Either way, fans win.

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Sport over spectacle

It’s a fine balance that needs to be constantly tweaked (in the match making), but I prefer sport over spectacle any day of the week.

Sport was why the UFC acquired Shields in the first place.

I’m psyched to see Kos vs GSP II for sure. And I would be pumped to see GSP vs. Shields.

by Gaossou on Jul 29, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree. I just don’t understand the seemingly popular line of thought that if Kampmann beats Shields, Kampmann doesn’t deserve a shot but if the outcome is reversed then it’s ok for Shields. If you beat the #1 contender, then you have earned your shot.

If you don't like the effect, don't produce the cause.

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by Kneeeeee on Jul 29, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

At the end of the day . . . stop his wrestling game
  • GSP – get past his takedowns and top control
  • Rashad Evans – doesn’t need to stand and strike when he can simply take you down.
  • Antonio McKee - no one wants to here his awkward arguments about race, but like he recently said . . . Somebody kick his a—. Somebody stop his takedowns. Somebody submit him!
  • Jake Shields – he’s boring? Knock him out! Dan Henderson tried.
  • Randy Couture – you don’t want to beat locked up against the fence, or taken down repeatedly? Do what Brandon Vera attempted to do.

- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!

by VeeisAnimated on Jul 29, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

A wise poster on here coined a phrase "entertaing sports"

as a play to sports entertainment (which is what pro wrestling is referred to as).

MMA is not the pure sports business.

Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.

by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

They aren’t in the pure sports business but then what professional sport is? Professional sports by their very nature are about making money, they are for profit operations. Still they are also sports, Paul Daily didn’t get a title shot because Kos beat him and he decided to toss his career away by being a jack ass afterwards and not only has Anthony Johnson not beat anyone near credible enough to earn a title shot he can barely make welterweight to start with. Just how marketable were either of those guys considering their actions in the actual sport? Both of those guys have some charisma but giving them title shots based on the sports aspects of this just kills the marketability of a title fight too. Besides GSP’s fights have got to the point where no contender is going to click with casual fans because no contender is given even the slightest chance of winning by casual fans. If they want to toss out the sport aspect of MMA then we can all just go back to watching pro wrestling where is will always be scripted to be more interesting anyway.

by who me on Jul 29, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nah, it's Kid Nate's fault.

He distracted GSP and Serra TKO’d him. GSP really tries extra hard now.

by Scootah on Jul 29, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Meh.

There's no depth to my shallowness.

by Earl Montclair on Jul 29, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s all smoke and mirrors.

But if you are stupid, you will be beaten with a stick - Proverbs 10:13

by Ominous on Jul 29, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

No.

So nice to go from a Snowden comment section to this unplowed earth.

The UFC could’ve passed on Jake Shields, you know. Said he was boring and Strikeforce’s champion can’t lick any of our guys and oh by the way if you wanna be a fucking fighter you can’t be decisioning people. Signing Shields was the act of a true sports league, one (at least occasionally) more concerned with legitimacy than publicity.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 29, 2010 2:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Also, let’s not forget that GSP did the last chunk of the Alves fight injured.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 29, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okami got hurt a lot and has no one to blame but himself for losing to Rich Franklin.

That was the best part of Sonnen scoring that win, I got to stop listening to people bitching about Okami getting shafted.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 29, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, I guess it was a poor example.

There's no depth to my shallowness.

by Earl Montclair on Jul 29, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

weak sauce

you could’ve fought on for at least 3 or 4 more replies.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 29, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I try to pick my battles…….usually I pick them against much weaker competition. Its keeps my winning percentage up.

There's no depth to my shallowness.

by Earl Montclair on Jul 29, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love how you’re trying to incite them now :-D

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 29, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

“Them”? What the hell you mean “them”?!?

There's no depth to my shallowness.

by Earl Montclair on Jul 29, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

he meant

‘You people’

Forever indebted to CroCop's left leg for getting me into MMA

by Well Read Idiot on Jul 29, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Also, "That one."

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.

by jemaleddin on Jul 29, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

What do you mean

“You people”? :p

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer

Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 29, 2010 5:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Bah...

ain’t no argument for Okami having received a shot.

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MMA Editor - SBNation.com

by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 29, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Signing Shields was the act of a true sports league, one (at least occasionally) more concerned with legitimacy than publicity.

I agree. I almost want to see Silva put on another stinker so I can finally judge, once and for all, if the UFC is about sport or entertainment.

ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.

by Chris Barton on Jul 29, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm almost at the point of preferring a boring Sonnen decision

So we can see the conversation instantly lurch from “Silva isn’t an interesting draw” to “OMG WRESTLING RUINS EVERYTHING”

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 29, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's the anti wrestling fans

That make me think that Kid Nate may have a point about MMA being a bubble that could burst. I think there are large portions of “fans” that are fans of parts of MMA but not the sport on the whole.

Support independent artists
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by Worldisart on Jul 29, 2010 3:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

They’ll come around. All kinds of football fans got into the 49ers of the 90’s and stuck around for and through the Ravens and the Steelers. I don’t care what gets you into the game, but once you’re into it, you have to learn to appreciate it for what it is, otherwise your bets suck and you sound like a moron.

The problem will take care of itself in the long run, and we’ll have smarter fans for it. Yes, I’m an optimist.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 29, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Solid analogy.

Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate

by Richard Wade on Jul 29, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Only almost?

Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate

by Richard Wade on Jul 29, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Signing Shields was the act of a true sports league, one (at least occasionally) more concerned with legitimacy than publicity.

Which is why they whitewash their history with fighters who don’t play ball, right?

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jul 29, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because professional sports organizations (like the New York Yankees re: Joe Torre) don’t do that, right?

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 29, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because Pete Rose is in the Hall of Fame, right?

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 29, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because that was a silly thing to say, right?

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 29, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Hall of Fame isn’t operated by Major League Baseball.

Also, banning a player/manager for breaking the rules of the game is much different than erasing Randy Couture from existence when he challenges his contract.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jul 29, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

What were they supposed to do? Post a series of “Come Back Randy” vignettes?

Also, I don’t know if you heard, but Randy didn’t end up challenging the contract.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 29, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

What were they supposed to do? Post a series of "Come Back Randy" vignettes?

Making sure he was off camera nor mentioning him when he cornered was a little much, no?

Also, I don’t know if you heard, but Randy didn’t end up challenging the contract.

You know what I mean.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jul 29, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

If they would have done vignettes to a Creed or U2 song business would have damn sure picked up!

There's no depth to my shallowness.

by Earl Montclair on Jul 29, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

My Sacrifice

is right there

Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.

by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m surprised they let him corner.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 29, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plus, the Torre example stands – he wrote a book and now it’s like he was never there.

Now if you’ll ex-cuse me, I have to go meet with a public defender.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 29, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you’re arguing that because the Yankees and George Steinbrenner snub Joe Torre (which isn’t entirely true, but whatever), it’s OK to do it?

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jul 29, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m arguing that “real” sports leagues do the exact same thing Zuffa did to Randy all the time.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 29, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

who won the 1925 nfl championship?

by Phildo on Jul 29, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a fine balance ...

That has to be constantly maintained between the sport and spectacle sides of MMA.

A pure sport format for MMA would be grand prix tournaments each year (and the promoter has no say over who matches who). A pure spectacle format for MMA would be freakshow fights all-the-time without belts (basically the promoter has 100% say over who fights who regardless of wins and loses). Hell Strikeforce is leaning more and more towards the latter model. I don’t think I would like either extreme.

In the UFC, consistently relegating Okami to the un-aired prelims (at least before his loss to Sonnen) could be arguably viewed as supporting the spectacle side of MMA (he is boring, therefore he doesn’t deserve main card status or serious title contention). But the UFC showed good forethought to sign Shields. It scores a big point for the sporting side of MMA.

It’s just a constant struggle to bounce back and forth between these two sides in order to draw viewers but still maintain a legitimate sport.

by Gaossou on Jul 29, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

would you rather see Koscheck fight GSP, Shields, at the time Daley, Fitch, Alves

Daley had not done enough to earn a shot and because he couldn’t gt past Kos’s wrestling GSP would have mangled him. Sheilds wasn’t signed. Of the three remaining, I would have pick Kos.

by truck on Jul 29, 2010 2:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Both of Daley's big wins in the UFC

Came about because his opponents didn’t employ smart game plans. They both stood and banged with Daley which is a very bad idea.

They were good KO victories but nothing Daley did really made me think he was up to speed to fight GSP.

KOS is a better challenge for GSP for sure. As is Shields, now that he is in the UFC.

by Gaossou on Jul 29, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

The opponent were really the best they could have been either.

Kamp is very solid, but that isn’t enough for a title shot.

by truck on Jul 29, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whoever those two are, they miss the point

Kampann and Shields have yet to face GSP and are CURRENTLY without much heat but both are on a roll. The fight between them creates a legit contender that WILL generate heat.

Alves and Fitch both lost to GSP and are CURRENTLY without much heat (alves due to inactivity, fitch due to decisionitis). The fight between them creates another legit contender that WILL generate heat.

Now if the timing works out, and I think it will, have the winner from each of those two fights pair up, and you have a #1 contender match with a lot of momentum behind it. Whoever wins this will have a ton of heat and momentum behind them going into a fight with GSP. Then you get both the sport and the entertainment in one.

by Cocytus on Jul 29, 2010 2:51 PM EDT reply actions  

it will be deeply unfortunate if Jake Shields can’t get past Martin Kampmann and get a title shot.

It might not be perfect what everyone is looking for, but if Kamp wins he is a deserving challenger and should put up a good fight.

by truck on Jul 29, 2010 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

If you can’t get by Fitch or Koscheck, you can’t get by GSP

a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon

by eastcoastatlas on Jul 29, 2010 2:55 PM EDT reply actions  

THIS

Is someone out there REALLY claiming that a Paul Daley fight would build as much interest as this GSP/KOS fight?

And let’s not forget that Kos was so… wonderfully unlikeable in his TUF run. Him on camera with GSP? He’s the perfect foil for GSP’s squeaky-clean persona, and vise-versa. Besides, we’ve seen the strikers all fail. Lets see a good wrestler get a second chance.

by judonerd on Jul 29, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s kind of tough to see how a full TUF season with both of them doesn’t sell the fight. Holland kind of sounds like he’s reaching here.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 29, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely

By the time December rolls around there will be a lot of hype behind KOS vs GSP II (TUF season, plus Primetime specials, etc.).

It’s going to be nuts! I’m already psyched for it!

by Gaossou on Jul 29, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know it’s not a popular choice but I think, strictly from a win perspective, Fitch should be next in line for a title shot. Alves shouldn’t even be in the discussion. I mean, in Alves’ last fight, he was soundly beaten by GSP. He gets to win one fight and be right back in the mix? Fitch has the second best record in the UFC.

Of course Fitch isn’t exactly making anyone believe that a rematch would go differently, given that he seems to have evolved very little since his last title shot…

by mthom on Jul 29, 2010 3:00 PM EDT reply actions  

John Fitch is like the crocodile.

He doesn’t evolve because he doesn’t have to. GSP is humans. He can fuck up anything in the animal kingdom if he feels like it, including the prehistoric beasts.

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by pdl on Jul 29, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s just that crocodiles aren’t boring.

by Vonk on Jul 30, 2010 7:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

90% of the time they just lay there, if they aren’t eating they are pretty damn dull.

by who me on Jul 30, 2010 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

good point

you are correct.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 29, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

this

a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon

by eastcoastatlas on Jul 29, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good catch

It was a title contention fight.

The UFC could use that as a reason to hype KOS vs. GSP II even more. As in, this time around things are going to be nuts because it’s for the title, whereas last time it wasn’t. More at stake.

by Gaossou on Jul 29, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is always someone better out there.....

Eventually we will see GSP lose to someone. In the meantime I think its tough for the UFC to find people with enough talent to face GSP and a couple other title holders. I mean from a business side I think the UFC is doing the only thing they can do…. try not to cheapen their titles like Strikeforce has. And eventually you will see someone who is GSP’s kryptonite come along and beat him. Its the way the game goes.

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by DJ Pullout on Jul 29, 2010 3:06 PM EDT reply actions  

The thing lots of people overlook when they have this type of discussion is that the fighters need to fight to get paid. What exactly do they suggest they do with Shields?

Anderson is fighting right now, GSP is filming TUF, and if he wasn’t, he’d probably be fighting around now, so you couldn’t set up GSP shields relatively soon anyway.

It’s better to have Shields fight someone relevant than just some random guy, because if he loses to someone relevant, that person is closer to a title shot, if he loses a warmup fight, you’re stuck because it will take longer for that person to be in title contention than it would be for Kampmann.

by Phildo on Jul 29, 2010 3:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed

Having Shields beat a legitimate contender in the meantime while KOS vs. GSP II happens just adds to the hype behind Shields (assuming he wins).

Shelving him is not only a waste of time for Shields, but a waste of resources since he can definitely be a solid spot on a main card somewhere (e.g. on UFC 121).

by Gaossou on Jul 29, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holy fuck I’m a moron. Dearth. DEARTH.

by bigstupidsmile on Jul 29, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dont know which one to rec

but i’ll choose the fuck up over the correction. Good stuff.

There's no depth to my shallowness.

by Earl Montclair on Jul 29, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think I just learned a new word

Or re-learned an old word that I totally forgot the meaning of. Either way props.

by Gaossou on Jul 29, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

that english degree

just keeps paying dividends

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 29, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kid Nate
The worst fights we’ve seen from GSP have been his dominating wins over Dan Hardy and Thiago Alves where he was reluctant to trade on the feet and unable to finish on the ground.

Excuse me if I’m incorrect but didn’t GSP drop Thiago Alves with a punch?

- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!

by VeeisAnimated on Jul 29, 2010 3:23 PM EDT reply actions  

he did

but he chose to spend more of the fight on the ground rather than go for the finish on the feet. and yes he was injured against Alves.
I’m not trying to bag on GSP, I’m just pointing out that his most criticized fights have been against strikers.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 29, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough.
Don’t get me wrong . . . I would love to see more of GSP’s stand up BUT I totally agree with Antonio McKee, Randy Couture, Rashad Evans and GSP. Use the smart approach.

- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!

by VeeisAnimated on Jul 29, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

sure

I enjoyed all of GSP’s fights. hell i like to watch Antonio McKee fight. i’m not the normal audience

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 29, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Same here!

- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!

by VeeisAnimated on Jul 30, 2010 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lest we also forget....

if losing a title fight to the current champ disqualifies you from another title fight against him, then GSP would not be the current beltholder.

"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.

by PapaBumpants on Jul 29, 2010 3:29 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I might add

that in the end, I do believe that the best will rise to the top. Whether Shields fights GSP first or Kampmann first, doesn’t matter too much to me because I feel he’d have to fight both of them anyway at some point. I think Shields can get by Kampmann. If he can’t, well Kampmann will have then earned the shot for real and we’ll have realized just exactly where Shields fits into the WW picture. So be it.

by pud333 on Jul 29, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

GSP

Is just a damn good fighter and he fights to win, not to entertain, and speaking for just myself, while I love to see people get KTFO and CTFO and kicked in the legs until the drop to a knee and plead with the ref to make the mean man leave them alone, I also love to see excellence. GSP is excellence. He fights SMART. He fights to negate his opponents’ strengths and make maximum use of his own. And he has completely dominated his division, and I think that’s the real problem — there is no one in that division who seems able to figure out how to beat him. I love watching him work his craft. He is a master. And I wish people would stop complaining.

It’s like people who complain when there’s a pitchers’ duel. I love to see two aces dominate each other’s line-ups. Most serious baseball fans love watching the K’s pile up and bases stay empty. I just… I just don’t get all this complaining about GSP and even Silva. Until someone beats these guys, we’re all being treated to displays of pure mastery. De gustibus non est disputandum, I guess. I love it. I wish others felt the same way.

"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.

by IKilled007 on Jul 29, 2010 3:40 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Agree with everything except..
Also, they characterize the Koscheck fight as a blowout for GSP, when it was actually more back and forth than that.

It’s the only fight Kos has lost where didn’t complain about or make excuses for the outcome. He was dominated. He knew it, George knew it and we saw it.

by Daveyboy on Jul 29, 2010 3:42 PM EDT reply actions  

I think there's a difference between a domination and a blowout

Koscheck had his moments against GSP.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 29, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought so too, but then I checked FightMetric:

http://fightmetric.com/fights/GSP-Koscheck.html

The first round was close, but the overall striking advantage was 118-14 GSP.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jul 29, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hardy

Is not a one dimensional striker. He would have easily been submitted and never got to his feet like Daley if he was.

by ImmortalTechnique92 on Jul 29, 2010 3:43 PM EDT reply actions  

This armchair matchmaking kills me.

“Why don’t they bring somebody in that GSP can whip instead of trying to have him beat the best people?!?”

What exactly sounds “PRO” about that crap from the “PRO MMA” show?

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.

by jemaleddin on Jul 29, 2010 3:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Well, if they get paid it is “pro”.

Also, they are covering a “pro” sport.

Colin Cowherd talks about “Major” League Baseball but the only thing major about him or his show is that he is a “major” douchebag.

There's no depth to my shallowness.

by Earl Montclair on Jul 29, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Rec’d for not liking Cowherd.

Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate

by Richard Wade on Jul 29, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cowherd....

Doesnt deserve to spend hours a day with my boo…

A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
Proud BElitest.

by MMArazorback on Jul 29, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shields I agree presents some interesting challenges for GSP and would likely be an entertaining fight as GSP would keep it on the feet and avoid the ground.

Somewhat off topic, but I disagree. GSP will do to Shields the exact same thing he has done to more or less every opponent he has ever faced; perfectly blend striking, takedowns and positional control. Shields will have no answer for any of it. No way GSP chooses to only stand with Shields.

We are One.

by shotokai_ on Jul 29, 2010 4:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Isn't Jesse awesome?!?!

Fedor invented a language that incorporates Sambo and Kimuras.

So next time FEDOR is kicking your ass, don't be offended or hurt, he may be just trying to tell you he likes your hat.

by McArthur... on Jul 29, 2010 4:33 PM EDT reply actions  

You’ve got a guy in Koscheck who doesn’t really fight, you know, the kind of fight the fans want to see.

Am I the only one who thinks Kos has turned into a completely different fighter from his old TUF/LNP days?? I mean I used to haaaate this guy when he was first coming off the show but since then he has really won me over. Look back at the finishes this guy has put together recently… yoshida, hazelett, johnson, trigg… who doesnt want to see that type of fight??

I dont understand why he has had such a hard time shaking this boring fighter rap. From the second he steps into the cage his priorities are to stand, bang, and put on one hell of a show. Now of course there are some fighters like daley who make you rethink some of those priorities but can you really blame him??

by 20dawk20 on Jul 29, 2010 4:47 PM EDT reply actions  

GSP BEAT THE BRAKES OFF OF THIAGO ALVES. Did you see Thiago’s face before the 5th round? after the fight? Jon Fitch? GSP beat the brakes off him. I agree, the Hardy fight was absolutely atrocious, ala Shields leg humping Miller….but don’t mention the Alves fight in that same breath.

Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.

by theworldsoldestsport on Jul 29, 2010 4:53 PM EDT reply actions  

So basically their argument is “they should give title shots to people that haven’t earned them, otherwise I’m booooored.” That’s kinda dumb.

OK, Shields has probably earned a fight with GSP, what with his success at both welter- and middleweight. But Anthony Johnson? At the time he fought Koscheck, he’d never beaten anyone of a higher caliber than Kevin Burns. And that fight—for which he missed weight—showed pretty clearly that he wasn’t ready for the top tier of the division. To which Holland and Pepe respond: “they should have never had Johnson fight Koscheck… they should have let him skip straight to a title shot!”

How silly.

by JRN on Jul 29, 2010 5:19 PM EDT reply actions  

It’s similar for Daley too, he had good wins against Kampmann and Hazelett but him even getting a number one contenders fight with Kos is questionable off just those two fight and it definately doesn’t earn him a title fight. Daley was getting a huge push and a real opportunity and it’s not the UFC’s fault that he couldn’t get past Koscheck. It seems like this whole arguement these people are pushing is that they are mad that Daley didn’t get a free pass on the number one contender’s match and go straight to GSP purely on a ratings whim and that is just sad.

Johnson shouldn’t even be a welterweight and the idea of him getting a title shot with his record makes no sense at all. He’s another guy who got a big chance to prove something when they gave him a match with Koscheck and he lost.

by who me on Jul 29, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

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