Impact FC Stiffs Fighters, Promoters Blaming One Another
Cage Potato does some excellent reporting:
We learned of the situation Wednesday from one of the affected fighters who wished to remain anonymous, but have since been able to confirm the story with more than a dozen others, including Karo Parisyan, Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou, Jesse Taylor and Brian Ebersole, that none of the cards' participants have received their complete fight purses .
Although most commissions require that fighters be paid before the promoter leaves the arena the night of the show (some even hold onto and distribute the money themselves) none of the men who fought on either show received checks before flying home from Australia. A handful of them have since received partial payment - the most being 75% of what was owed, however most of the fighters we spoke to have yet to receive a dime, despite multiple phone calls they have made and emails they have sent to promoters Tom Huggins and Andrew McManus asking that they be paid.
They get quotes from both partners, first Andrew McManus, the "money mark" blames Tom Huggins, the "MMA veteran" claims that McManus was always the sole responsible party for paying the fighters. Huggins is in Brazil and McManus asserts that he hasn't been able to get a response from him. Huggins, for his part, insists that he has a contract that clearly indicates that McManus agreed to pay all the costs of the events. McManus asserts that he never signed that contract.
There's also an interesting "it's the UFC's fault conspiracy" angle in the full entry, plus Jordan Breen's comments:
A source close to the situation indicated that the UFC purportedly contacted any sponsors of the event who also sponsored UFC or WEC shows and told them in no uncertain terms that if they backed Impact, they would no longer be welcomed as a ZUFFA sponsor. As such, several sponsors pulled out last-minute, adding to the promotion's financial issues.
This strikes me as extremely unlikely. The UFC, sadly, does have a track record of behavior bordering on tortuous interference against major rivals such as M-1 Global, but Impact FC's two cards featuring nothing but UFC castoffs in a minor market does not appear to fit the profile of a promotion that Dana White feels threatened by.
Jordan Breen, who traveled to Australia to cover both Impact FC events for Sherdog tweeted on the topic today:
re: Impact FC not paying fighters, Tom Huggins indicated to me from the outset that AMP was on the hook for production and payroll costs.
After a weak gate in Brisbane (gate was AMP responsibility to promote), McManus complained. He clearly thought all MMA works like UFC.
For reference, whole Impact model is supposed to be franchising, i.e. Huggins works with different Impact promoters in different countries.
McManus was supposed to be the cashcow in Australia, but clearly didn't understand at all and freaked out when Impact didn't do UFC numbers.
AMP is McManus' company.
Sadly, this debacle fits an all too common pattern in MMA. Impact FC had all the signs of being a disaster in the making going in:
- Overly ambitious new promotion aiming to score big on Pay Per View right out of the gate;
- Money mark financing
- Card stocked with (relatively) high dollar veterans who are nonetheless unlikely to draw;
- Weak or absent regulators that fail to protect the fighters by collecting the fight purses up front;
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McManus has had his fair share of issues promoting pro wrestling and music in Australia as well. Rob Nashville wrote a good piece on what AMP’s initial intentions were:
For a promoter, McManus has a fairly good rep…just not the best business sense.
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I know guys who dealt with him during his wrestling stint.
He is the very definition of a money mark.
Koscheck eats it.
My comment from the article about Bob Sapp claiming Impact FC couldn't pay his plane ticket:
Impact FC can’t afford a plane ticket..
But can put on two shows in two weeks in Australia and pay the purses and other expenses for: Karo Parisyan, Carlos Newton, Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou, Jeff Monson, Big John McCarthy (twice), Josh Barnett, Ken Shamrock, Pedro Rizzo, Paul Daley, Denis Kang, Paulo Filho, Murilo Rua, and Murilo Bustamante.
I expect a lot of reports of fighters not getting paid
by TheConcreteKid on Jul 14, 2010 6:41 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
(http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/7/14/1570274/bob-sapp-has-been-removed-from-his#42093619)
by TheConcreteKid on Jul 29, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
To be fair, it wasn’t that they couldn’t afford Bob Sapp’s plane ticket. It’s that they refused to fly out his 50 Bulgarian “sambo coaches”. They told him he could bring two corner men and he refused.
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Yeah thats true, and thats why I worded that as an article about Sapp “claiming” they couldnt afford a ticket…. but regardless, they were a small ‘regional’ show trying to appear to be larger than they actually were, but they didnt have their proverbial shit together, as they say. It’s the same thing that Affliction, Bodog, IFL and EliteXC did, try to become overnight what took the UFC 10 years to become.
by TheConcreteKid on Jul 29, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
UFC won’t pay for guy’s to fly out their entourage either. They’ll pay to fly out your corner. Beyond that, you’re on your own. Might be different for guys like Chuck, Brock, Randy, ect, but then I don’t really think they’re in a finacial situation where they have to worry about paying to fly out their buddies to see the show.
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Brock himself flew out his whole team for UFC 116 on his own dime
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s what I’m saying. Those guys don’t really have to worry about such things. Brock Lesnar doesn’t have to worry about details like that the same as say Gerald Harris for example.
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The way you phrased the statement clearly indicated that you believed the UFC would do thinsg like that for the marquee fighters
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Fail...
And people think MMA will prosper when you have micro-organization housing mediocre talent can’t even afford to pay these fighters. Ontop of Zuffa pulling a Steinbrenner, buying up all marketable sponsors then threaten them with a lifetime ban if they take their business elsewhere that doesn’t have the UFC/WEC banner.
I wonder if these clowns check their bank accounts before they put on these shows.
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by Ryan Tical on Jul 29, 2010 1:35 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think people are going overboard with the Zuffa hardball sponsor stuff. From what I’ve read and seen Zuffa isn’t out there mucking with sponsors on a whim. In fact I’ve only read about them doing it on a very limited basis. Zuffa has played hardball with those that want to play hardball with them. That isn’t a very uncommon approach in the business world but for some reason a lot of people expects Zuffa to be this altruistic company because they think it would be good for MMA. Which seems to ignore the fact that it would be Zuffa helping it’s competitors.
Just BE.
This whole statement is misguided and untrue.
Sorry.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Thanks.
I share my opinion based on what I have read. I’m sorry I’m not as enlightened as you. But thanks for helping me understand why I’m misguided with that response.
I would love to know why and am more than happy to learn more. Please. I hate to be misinformed but responses like that don’t do me any good in making me better informed. I have no problem in being wrong and admitting it.
Just BE.
I would have elaborated if I could
but I’ve got ties on my tongue, hence the apology. Didn’t mean to come off as snarky.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
It’s ok but seriously I hate to be misinformed and would be more than happy to be set straight.
Well maybe next time you will be able to share more about why I’m wrong and misguided instead of just telling me I’m wrong and misguided. Cause now I just feel like an idiot but don’t know why.
Just BE.
now I just feel like an idiot but don’t know why.
Story of my life
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 29, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, what?
It’s Zuffa’s fault that this shitty promotion can’t pay its fighters? That’s bullshit.
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
Fuck ufc and these fly by night promotions who wanna follow in their footsteps. Fuck the ppv model and fuck dana white.
Strikeforce is doing things the right way.
by PipRocks on Jul 29, 2010 1:39 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
well one thing you can say in Dana's defense
is that he always pays the fighters. The Fertittas went millions into the hole and still paid everyone. Not really fair to compare Dana to McManus and Higgins.
And the PPV get rich quick model actually goes back to SEG and the dawn of the UFC.
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he's not name calling or breaking any of the rules
it’s not much of a contribution to the discussion but it’s not bannable.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Which is more than Strikeforce can say.
High five!
Koscheck eats it.
by Ozzz on Jul 29, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Strikeforce is doing things the right way.
Made my day. Thanks for the laugh.
by argyle on Jul 29, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
…?
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by Derek Suboticki on Jul 29, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Strikeforce is doing things the right way?
So, you say F*** the PPV model, but you think SF is doing things the right way?
You do know that the SF model is all about getting on PPV when they think it will work, right? Coker has stated over and over that they want to be on PPV.
So, I think it’s safe to say that once SF is on PPV, you will hate on SF and their “model”?
by Bob Loblaw TX on Jul 29, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you TBA’s father?
"Ten more seconds is all I ever ask. That's the good thing I learned about being KO'd twice. You don't see it coming -it's like death- you don't plan for it so don't wait for it. So many people are afraid of getting Ko'd that their hands stay home, but not me. I got to go out there and shoot the lights out and fall down" Jens Pulver
by StevenGiles on Jul 29, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Bahahahahahahaha....
Strikeforce was doing somewhat okay before the Fedor and Henderson clusterfucks.
Granted, they base everything on fights turning out “as expected” and when they don’t they look like ever bigger idiots.
If anyone is showing how to do things as an alternative to the UFC’s proven model (and in a sustainable format), its Bellator.
Everytime I think Strikeforce finally might be doing something right, Lucy yanks the ball out and they fall on their collective arses…
On the plus side, you made me reflexively laugh out loudly in a crowded restraunt. At a table for 1…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 29, 2010 6:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
A minor-league promotion does not do UFC numbers on their first PPV?
What a shock [/sarcasm]
You don't like wrestling in MMA? Go watch K-1.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Jul 29, 2010 1:46 PM EDT reply actions
Wow, this is horrible
As much as I like to talk about how little the fighters get paid in the UFC, Strikeforce etc. at least they get paid.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
*sigh* This may be in litigation for years
so many parties involved, the finger pointing has already started, and it seems a fairly suspicious and complicated business model. I’d be surprised if the fighters all got paid their full contractual amount at any point in time. Colossal FUBAR.
I’d be very interested in some real investigative journalism if Zuffa did in fact interfere with sponsorship. That would be a clear cut tortuous interference case.
On my end, I heard nothing about UFC interference regarding Impact FC
and I know of some talks regarding sponsorships with them, so I’m skeptical to see that used as a defense. I know of other similar issues that haven’t been publicized, and this isn’t one of them. It’s possible that it happened, but I’m not buying it this time.
Then again, that’s just lil old me.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
yeah I think that's a red herring
one of the promoters threw out there as an excuse.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
That’s what I thought when I read that bit, someone read the stuff about Fedor and Tapout and decided to try and fly the same excuse. For the UFC to go after a promotion like that I would assume they would have to see them as some kind of threat and Impact FC was just a bit above the level of Wargods, I just don’t see it poping up on the UFC’s radar.
Fighters Need to Wisen Up
I don’t want to tell the fighters I told you so, but I can’t feel bad for them when this happens again and again. Not that this is an excuse for AMP and it was too good a pay day to pass up maybe, but if you don’t fight for a reputable organization or in an area with strong commissions then shit like this happens
both parties signed a contract and fighters must be paid. There is no freaking way we can blame the fighters on this.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
Signing a contract doesn't mean blindly neglecting the context...
The civil judicial system is absolutely clogged with cases of abused contracts. Its a fact of life and of doing business. You and I could sign a contract right now where I promised to pay you $100k for cleaning my kitchen. Sure as hell doesn’t mean you’re going to get that money contractually or through litigation if I don’t have it. I’d would hope, for your case, that you consider the context of any contract before signing into it.
I would seriously doubt if Zuffa gave a damn about this promotion. Like 1,000 people showed up to each card, and I doubt if they did more than 10,000 PPV buys. If Zuffa felt threatened by them in the least, I’d be shocked.
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Congratulations ImpactFC! You win the coveted
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There's no depth to my shallowness.
by Earl Montclair on Jul 29, 2010 2:41 PM EDT reply actions 8 recs
So...
Does this mean I have to pay my cable provider for the card? Or can I pay them 22.50, that is 75% after all..
I highly doubt the UFC was interfering with sponsors in this case.
It just doesn’t seem worth the effort for the bad publicity.
Whoever wrote that piece for CP doesn’t sound very sure of the UFC sponsor thing. Why not just call up the sponsors who supposedly backed out and ask them it it is true?
The hamster passed out on the wheel coming up with those “witty” captions below the photos.
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by Earl Montclair on Jul 29, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
What are the gonna say now Kid?
They call you a UFC hater, but here you went against words of UFC hating.
I see this happening with Shark Fights..
There are gonna be paying some serious cash for all the names on one card, yet they aren’t gonna be pulling in any significant PPV’s sooo I don’t know how they are gonna be able to finance this card. OR if they do, I can see it being one of their last shows
we'll see
unlike Impact FC, Shark Fights has a pretty good track record of doing smaller events.
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Don Frye fought for Shark Fights some time back and said they were very well run, paid on time and treated everyone very well. If Don Frye says you are on the up and up, that’s a good sign. That guy has no love lost for promoters.
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Well, a key difference is that shark fights is happening in Texas, not Australia. Now people have had issues with the Texas commission before in regards to who they license, but they will do a better job of making sure people get paid than Australia.
This is the exact reason why I thought that athletic commissions made promtions give them the money for fighter pay up front (the whole reason they know what the payouts are is because they hold the money). I’m going to assume that a big part of the issue that happened here was that the Australian athletic commission is very different in what it does and doesn’t do from the athletic commissions in North America. I would imagine that TAC makes Shark Fights put up the fighter pay money before the event happens and if they can’t then they would stop the event.
Australian Athletic Commission
Firstly there is no Australian Athletic Commission and like USA, different states have different rules.
MMA in the state of Queensland, where the first Impact event was held is not regulated at all. It’s the wild wild west and luckily to date, the majority of events held have been by legitimate promoters who have the best interested of the sport in mind. Not always though. Tomorrow for example, there will bet open weight event held locally, and if the fights go to a decision, the crowd picks the winner. So a popularity contest as such. frowns
The state of NSW (where Sydney lies) is different and as of 1 January, 2010 all combat sports are looked after by the Combat Sports Authority. That Combat Sports Authority recently has been in the news as being the Commission that denied Paul Briggs the license to fight Danny Green. The fighters fought in Perth, Western Australia where their commission is less lenient and well, you just have to google to find out what happened if you don’t already know.
I am not 100% sure though if the combat sports authority makes promoters put money down beforehand, however am doubtful that they do.
It has actually been a bad few weeks for Andrew McManus who has also been involved in one of biggest controversies in Australian sport, as being part of the the Melbourne Storm salary cap fiasco. Will be interesting to see if the mainstream media in Australia catch on to this ‘impact news’ and choose to run it as well.
Full Tilt Poker is a sponsor that I heard was supposed to sponsor the Brisbane show but was pulled at last minute. Go back and watch the fights. No sponsor in the middle of the cage.
by Chris Postupalski on Jul 30, 2010 9:20 AM EDT reply actions
I was using Australian Athletic Commission as a generic term as I didn’t know exactly where the events were being held and how things were broken down there. Thanks for the information on how they are broken down.
Full Tilt Poker doesn’t work as a sponsor for the UFC so the UFC would have little sway with them anyway.
I hear that Full Tilt were negotiating to get back into the UFC. If that is the case, then UFC does have a sway over them.
by Chris Postupalski on Jul 30, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
...
From the sounds of things Mcmanus is in a bit of financial strife, see this article:
Sounds like he’s really clutching at straws to recoup a bit of cash

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