USAT/SBN July MMA Consensus Rankings: Light Heavyweight
by Kid Nate on Jul 29, 2010 12:05 PM EDT
in MMA Rankings
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Rankings compiled by Richard Wade.
| Rank | Fighter | Points | Promotion | Last Rank |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Mauricio Rua | 350 | UFC | 1 |
| 2 | Lyoto Machida | 333 | UFC | 2 |
| 3 | Rashad Evans | 321 | UFC | 3 |
| 4 | Quinton Jackson | 303 | UFC | 4 |
| 5 | Anderson Silva | 275 | UFC | 5 |
| 6 | Forrest Griffin | 274 | UFC | 6 |
| 7 | Antonio Rogerio Nogueira | 257 | UFC | 7 |
| 8 | Muhammed Lawal | 243 | Strikeforce | 8 |
| 9 | Gegard Mousasi | 186 | Strikeforce | 9 |
| 10 | Thiago Silva | 183 | UFC | 10 |
| 11 | Jon Jones | 176 | UFC | 12 |
| 12 | Rich Franklin | 168 | UFC | 11 |
| 13 | Randy Couture | 151 | UFC | 13 |
| 14 | Dan Henderson | 118 | Strikeforce | 14 |
| 15 | Ryan Bader | 111 | UFC | 15 |
| 16 | Matt Hamill | 101 | UFC | 20 |
| 17 | Renato Sobral | 98 | Strikeforce | 17 |
| 18 | Vitor Belfort | 85 | UFC | 16 |
| 19 | Brandon Vera | 71 | UFC | 19 |
| 20 | Chuck Liddell | 57 | UFC | 21 |
| 21 | Tito Ortiz | 56 | UFC | 23 |
| 22 | Luis Arthur Cane | 53 | UFC | 22 |
| 23 | Keith Jardine | 52 | UFC | 18 |
| 24 | Vladimir Matyushenko | 51 | UFC | NR |
| 25 | Jason Brilz | 50 | UFC | NR |
This is the portrait of a division on hold. With #1 Mauricio "Shogun" Rua out with an injured knee and #3 Rashad Evans electing to wait out Shogun's return, light heavyweight has been snoozeville this month.
Fans have been given some exciting 205lb matches to anticipate however. #2 Lyoto Machida and #4 Quinton "Rampage" Jackson have agreed to meet in the fall.
#5 Anderson Silva is apparently newly recommitted to his middleweight division and is rejecting talk of future light heavy challenges. #6 Forrest Griffin is out with injuries, no word on when he'll return.
#7 Antonio Rogerio Nogueira, fresh off a scare against #25 Jason Brilz at UFC 114, will test up and comer #15 Ryan Bader at UFC 119.
#8 Muhammed "King Mo" Lawal will defend his Strikeforce belt against the unranked but very dangerous Rafael "Feijão" Cavalcante at Strikeforce: Houston in August.
#9 Gegard Mousasi had an easy time with Jake O'Brien at DREAM.15 and will fight this fall against Tatsuya Mizuno for the DREAM light heavyweight tournament title. Not exactly the best use of his time.
#10 Thiago Silva had to pull out of his UFC 117 bout with Tim Boetsch due to injuries. No word on what's next for the Brazilian.
And last but certainly not least, #11 Jon Jones will face a test against veteran #24 Vladimir Matyushenko at UFC on Versus 2 next Sunday. If Jones wins again it will be very hard to keep the hype train from steaming him into contention, possibly prematurely.
Based on the premise that all MMA rankings are subjective but that it’s still useful and informative to know who the online MMA community as a whole ranks as the best fighters in MMA, we collect and average the rankings of the top MMA websites to produce our consensus rankings. We compile the top MMA rankings from each of our sources and award 25 points for a first place ranking, 16 for a 10th place ranking, 1 for a 25th place ranking. A formula is used to "normalize" the data so all fighters are awarded points from those lists that do not include a full 25 fighters. This formula ensures that each ranking site awards the same number of total points regardless of how many fighters they choose to rank. Each fighter’s total is divided by the number of possible points to determine their standing in the Consensus Rankings.
We are now moving to what JCS of Fight Matrix has described as assumed rankings in an attempt to rank fighters who move between weight classes. This has been the biggest problem with the consensus rankings and we believe this new methodology will rectify that.
Let's take Anderson Silva for instance. 87% (13 of 15) of our panelists have him at Light Heavyweight and 100% (15 of 15) at Middleweight. On the 13 ballots that ranked Silva at 205, we took the average (21.2). We then reduced that number by half the percentage of Light Heavyweight ballots that he was not included on. Say he's not on 30% of them, then we do a 15% penalty on the average that we found in the previous step. That number is then used instead of the usual "normalization number" to provide points from those not ranking the fighter in the weight class in question. This avoids fighters being excessively penalized by confusion about which weight class they belong.
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How you can rank Machida over Evans, I do not know?
Machida is coming off a loss, some say two. Evans is coming off two wins. Yeah Machida beat Evans, but what have you done for me lately.
Silva, Evans, Shogun, Shogun loss <<<< Griffin, Machida loss, Silva, Jackson
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 9:22 AM EDT reply actions
you do understand how these work right?
We compile rankings from leading websites & mma journalists. There’s no opinion here, just compilation.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Kid, no one ever reads below the jump.
Might as well post that paragraph above the rankings themselves. Maybe something will register as they scroll down to get to the rankings.
"Overdrive the sound and make it sound pretty rude." - Jimmy Page
Either the inertia effect is incredibly strong,
or these guys doing the rankings need to share some of their product with us.
I simply don’t see any real utility to these rankings for the most part.
I guess if you are looking at these as an overall snapshot of career-to-date, they make a little sense, but some of their rankings are almost comical in how high/low they have some guys…
Rampage at #4? Anderson at #5? Griffin at #6 Jones at #11? And it just goes on…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 29, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I know how they work.
My reading skills work just fine.
My point still stands. Since Machida has more points than Evans, several websites had to have ranked Machida ABOVE Evans. So again, how you can rank Machida over Evans is do not know.
Not YOU as Kid Nate.
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the fact that Machida beat Evans badly
has made a big impression on the panelists.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
If your reading skills work just fine than your question of “How can you rank Machida over Evans” was really quite silly.
YOU (meaning ufc4) does know that you (the word) has more than one definition, right?
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions
You should have said “one” instead of “you.”
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Jul 29, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Evans’s wins aren’t over anyone who was higher-ranked than Machida at the time, and Machida only has that one official loss. Add in the fact that Machida crushed Evans just last year, and presto.
Really?
How you can rank Machida over Evans, I do not know?
by Grey Suit on Jul 29, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Let me go ahead
And put you in the green.
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
Ah, so if you beat a fighter, you get ranked above them?
Is this correct?
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
there are no hard and fast rules
but many of the rankers tend to follow that one in most cases.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Werdum over Fedor?
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 29, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
That shouldn't make you quizzical. Werdum beat him.
by destructivist on Jul 29, 2010 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Werdum didn’t jump ahead of Fedor. I believe that was his point.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Jul 29, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
You win the prize
Called it before the fight:
Cardio - The BIG question. Does Shane Carwin have cardio? He's never gone past the first round. His muscle mass is astounding and we all know that with all that muscle comes a need for the heart to pump fresh oxygenated blood to keep them from building lactic acid. He does train up in the thin air of Colorado, so that can't do anything but help. However, we have seen him pretty winded after a 1st round fight. Adrenaline dump or cardio problems? We won't find out the answer to that until someone takes him out of the first round.
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 30, 2010 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions
IF AS beats Sonnen..i want AS to fight the winner of RUA vs EVANS.
dana make it happen…i know AS is on your bad side but we have to see if AS is just so dominate he can hold two belts in TOP weight classes. JUST think if jon jones wins 2-3 more tough fights and AS is the 205lb champ. jones vs AS? do it.
I think the changing of the guard is imminent.
Anderson takes it from the winner of Rua-Evans, maybe defends it once, then Jon Jones (after his next 2-3 fights) takes it from him.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 29, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
i know
that would be epic. so many ppv buys. but also if jon jones can dominate his next few fights. AS vs jon jones. thats saying IF big IF AS can get by RUA
There are 3 big matches in my mind
Lesnar vs Fedor – more possible from a business standpoint after Fedor loss, but maybe not from a personal standpoint (whats going on in Fedor’s mind)
AS vs GSP – Currently the biggest possible in-house ufc match. Still, I think AS size advantage will decide the fight much like Penn vs GSP.
AS vs Shogun – Currently growing in appeal for me. If Shogun can destroy his next challenger (rashad), this would shoot to the top dream match. AS would have no room to clown around and have to come ready to fight every second like in his Lee Murray fight. He’d have to be in the zone that he was with Forest but every moment. A healthy and motivated Shogun is easily one of the most dangerous fighters in the world and he would bring the fight to AS with devastating power and great speed.
I still think Mousasi and Mo are ranked too high.
by truck on Jul 29, 2010 12:55 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
guys at the top of smaller promotions
ALWAYS get over ranked. Look at Benson Henderson at LW. No way he’s done more than mid tier UFC guys like Tyson Griffin.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Yeah...
there’s a lot of “what if” and “what would happen” as well as seemingly always looking at the non-UFC guys in a “best case” light.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 29, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Jon Jones vs Anderson Silva
Is there anyone with a better chance to beat Silva than Jon Jones? It be the first time Anderson had to fight a guy with a longer reach that had nasty takedowns from the clinch as well as sick slams and a relentless pursuit of a KO. Jones vs Anderson will happen down the road if Silva is still around. He has Chael to crush then a hard fight with Vitor. If he tools both of them ther is no one left for him to fight at 185 maybe a super fight with GSP.
Jones doesn’t know how to use his reach, so I don’t see how it would be a disadvantage to Silva. Dude go repeatedly hit in the face by Jake O’Brien and it’s not like Jones is out punching people because he has big reach. His vicious GnP also comes down to one elbow that broke Vera’s face (before that, there was not much going on in terms of damage) and few illegal ones that fucked Hamill (before he was looking at the ref to stop the fight because he didn’t know how to put Hamill away). He has big potential, but let’s be serious. He’s fighting Janitor.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 29, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
did you read what I wrote?
His vicious GnP also comes down to…
…and few illegal ones that fucked Hamill
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 29, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
It was a takedown that dislocated Hamill's shoulder, not elbows.
Hamill was done with or without the 12-6 elbows.
Exactly, it was not the elbows that forced Hamill to say he couldn't continue
it was because his shoulder was dislocated. If Jones would have stood up after that takedown the fight would have been over.
Did you read what I wrote?
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 29, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
and few illegal ones that fucked Hamill
It was not the illegal elbows that fucked Hamill, it was the TD.
I give up, not going to ask i you read the whole sentence.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 29, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
*if you read
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 29, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
did you read what I wrote?
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 29, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I know he's been ranked high for a while now
Has anyone ever rose through the ranks faster in a deeper division than Mo Lawal?
Only Brock comes to mind, and at the time he started, there was like 6 guys in HW division.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 29, 2010 1:57 PM EDT reply actions
The difference of course being that Mo is tragically, comically, Matt Lindlandally overrated.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
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by Derek Suboticki on Jul 29, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Matt Linland is a god.
I saw him fight in person, finally…..
After watching that fight, I felt like I had a legitimate chance of beating Kevin Casey.
"I trained with Steven Seagal."
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 29, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Jon Jones being ranked at #11 makes my head hurt, to be honest. His best wins are Brandon Vera and Matt Hamill. Dude has all sorts of skill and potential, but his accomplishments aren’t anything to write home about.
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then you haven't been watching the rankings long enough
Hype is a huge part of the rankings.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
And who has Franklin beaten at LHW
That makes you pose that question?
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 30, 2010 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Does it bother anyone else
That Gregard Mousasi hasn’t beaten ANYONE ON THAT FUCKING LIST, and the guy above him’s only win against ANYONE ON THAT FUCKING LIST is Mousasi?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 29, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
OH YEAH
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 29, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
He's very good...
huge upside, great physical tools, seems to always be learning.
But there are some issues in his game and he doesn’t have huge wins. He’s #11 based on potential more than what he’s already done.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 29, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
His best wins are Brandon Vera and Matt Hamill
Plus one of his best wins is technically a loss.
by dano- on Jul 29, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Take some aspirin
He should be ranked higher.
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
For starters
The only LHWs who would likely be favored against him on Monday are Rua, Machida and Anderson. Evans would probably be about even, or a slight dog.
Rankings are just sort of a snapshot of some combination of a fighters overall career, rankings inertia + wishful thinking, all seasoned with a bit of bullshit…
Then again, to paraphrase that old saw about democracy as a form of government – they may suck, but their the best thing we have to go on…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 30, 2010 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course, if that is the criteria
Then Phil Davis should be somewhere in the 10 – 15 range, based on who he could beat / would be favored against…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 30, 2010 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions
To be fair, he does have bigger LHW wins than
8 Muhammed Lawal
9 Gegard Mousasi
In that ball park anyways.
I don’t see that at all. Who should be above him that isn’t? Franklin you can just about make a case for, everyone else…
Couture – Destroying Vera > decisioning him in tedious fashion.
Henderson – 1 win at 205 in 3 years and it was an underwhelming/controversial decision.
Bader – Again, destroying Vera and Hammill better than anything he’s done.
And from there downwards it’s not even arguable. Really nothing to get incredulous about – 1 or 2 places in it at the most.
It kills me how Hendo and Belfort are still ranked here despite the fact that it’s well-established that they’re Middleweights at this point. Chuck, Jardine, and Tito being ranked is a joke too, considering how they haven’t won in forever.
Tito hasn’t won a fight in four years yet is still in the Top 25? And ranked over Vladdy and Jason Brilz? That’s rich.
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