Sarah Kaufman's Plea Puts Strikeforce in Difficult Situation with Fans, Media
Mixed martial arts is one of the more unique sports in the world when it comes to self-promotion and having the ability to gravitate toward a massive group of fans who wants to see exciting action. It's one of the only sports in the world in which the individual is solely responsible for creating some sort of way to keep their name in the limelight, and it really doesn't have anything to do with winning or losing, unlike some of the bigger sports in the world.
Performance isn't always a key to greatness with fans or with the media. Newly-crowned baseball Hall of Famer Andre Dawson was the epitome of greatness when he retired from MLB with over 400 home runs and over 300 stolen bases. At the time of his retirement, he was inducted into a scarce group of players to have achieved what he had done over the course of his career, yet the steroid era's monstrous numbers kept him out of the Hall of Fame for a very long time. He was beloved in Chicago for his professionalism and lengthy stay with the Chicago Cubs, but media writers and Hall of Fame voters shunned him for years due to the exponentially growing numbers of the players now playing the game. He was a forgotten relic... until this past weekend.
More modern-day examples are hard to find for myself as I'm more of a fan of the un-American sports like soccer and hockey, but there is a perfect example of a great star being hidden in the shadow of flashier players in the world of soccer. Diego Milito, forward for Inter Milan in the Italian Serie A league, was easily one of the best players this year in soccer. Not only did he lead his team to greatness in winning Italy's top soccer league, but he scored two goals in the UEFA Champion's League final, one of those goals absolutely juking a defenseman out of his boots, to win Europe's Super Bowl of soccer.
Unfortunately, Milito isn't the flashier Argentinian player in the world, and he found himself on the bench during the World Cup this summer due to some of the more creative players being promoted to the first team. It's unfortunate that superb timing and utter brilliance on the field doesn't translate to being given the nod in some of the biggest games of a professional soccer player's life.
How exactly does this pertain to mixed martial arts? Other than the fact that I wanted to tout my favorite soccer team, it also parallels with the story of Sarah Kaufman's rise to being one of the absolute best women's fighters in the world and being somewhat shunned to lower cards under Strikeforce due to the lesser interest in women's mixed martial arts and her recent track record of not being able to finish opponents. While we've seen countless arguments from fans, writers, and analysts regarding the situation following Kaufman's post-fight comments, nobody is going to win this argument or be proven right in any capacity. This is truly a dilemma that has no right answer.
Our own Jonathan Snowden laid down one side of the argument bluntly:
A woman who saw the crowd abandon the building like it was on fire in her last fight, in a sport that has seen a grand total of one woman able to draw a significant audience, was actually complaining about Strikeforce putting her in the co-main event of a nationally televised card. The ego on display there is staggering.
Numbers talk. And Kaufman's main event at Challengers 6 against Hashi was watched by just 150,000 fans. The next two Challengers shows doubled that number. Kaufman is in the right place-with other prospective stars looking to attract a following. And the Challengers cards are actually an enormous opportunity for Kaufman and other main eventers in these under the radar cards.
If she was stuck as the opening act of a five fight card featuring Fedor Emelianenko, Dan Henderson, or other Strikeforce fighters with mega wattage star power like Nick Diaz, no one would have talked about her for even a moment leading into the show. Instead, she was a major part of a slow news week. It's the perfect role for her, an opportunity to be the focal point of one of the promotion's nationally televised shows.
To be perfectly honest, I almost wrote a very similar piece that would have been without the "diva" moniker. I didn't feel she was throwing anyone under the bus, nor being a diva by stating she wanted to be featured on a main Strikeforce card. I do, however, think she's fighting a losing battle and the solution solely relies on how she performs in the cage.
BloodyElbow.com fanposter and WKR writer Black Lesnar rebutted Snowden's point of view with what I believe is the second distinct point of view among fans in this debate:
As an organization, you show commitment to your champions otherwise your belts become worthless. This is not the first time Scott Coker has shown a lack of brainpower in dealing with championships. We all know his 185 lb champion Jake Shields was allowed to go unsigned, his Women's 145 lb champ "Cyborg" Santos fought a journey-woman fighter with a .500 record, Brett Rogers was allowed to compete for the Heavyweight title after coming off a loss and a catch-weight bout was set up between Babalu Sobral and Robbie Lawler to determine the next contender for two different titles and the winner of the match declined to fight the champion.
In Snowden's quest for page views, he over-analyzes a post-fight interview by a frustrated champion who feels she is being under-appreciated. She isn't "throwing [anyone] under the bus", she just wants to be featured in a way that a champion should. She also knows that her on a bigger card means a) more money in her pocket and b) more eyeballs on the burgeoning sport of Women's MMA. Scott Coker has expressed the sentiment numerous times that he is fully committed to the sport of Women's MMA, well he needs to start acting like it.
While I think Lesnar's point about Snowden over-analyzing the post-fight interview is spot on, I don't necessarily agree with his first points in regards to the value of the belts and showing commitment to your champions. This all leads me to my own point of view, which I'll now force you to read:
- Sarah Kaufman isn't a proven draw, nor proven entertainment... and women's mixed martial arts as a whole hasn't been able to provide that either. And don't act like this is some sort of ploy to stomp all over women's mixed martial arts. The fact of the matter is that a large piece of the pie (80-90%) of mixed martial arts fans are 18-34 year old men. It doesn't take a genius to understand why Gina Carano was one of the highest drawing women's fighters in mixed martial arts.
Kaufman doesn't have the power that someone like Cris Cyborg possesses either, and even she has problems drawing numbers despite her absolute dominance of the division. As Brent Brookhouse noted, the Hashi fight was boring and basically over after the first round of action. That fight has gone a long way into securing Kaufman's status as a co-main event fighter on a Challengers' card, as sad as that is. - Surprisingly, numbers actually do talk, ask Gregory House M.D. As the great House states in any bizarre medical situation, we look at the numbers because they're right. Strikeforce has already proven that the women can't hold their own on a Challengers' card as Kaufman vs. Hashi drew 150,000 views as a main event, and Meisha Tate vs. Zoila Frausto along with Lavar Johnson vs. Lolohea Mahe couldn't draw past 150,000 viewers either. They weren't great cards, but Strikeforce Challengers 8 was able to draw close to 300,000 views with Matt Lindland taking on Spencer Pratt's "Boy!" Kevin Casey and Tyron Woodley vs. Nathan Coy. Sure, they have more star power, but 150,000 extra eyes worthy power? Tough not to look at those numbers and cringe at the state of women's MMA.
- I think the belts are already worthless, and Strikeforce isn't here to show commitments -- they are here to make money and remain viable. Strikeforce's titles are really nothing more than a way to see some great five round battles. I've never bought into the idea that fans are swarming in droves to watch a Strikeforce card because there is a title on the line. In reality, most fans simply want to see the champion fight and if the title changes hands -- okay. The looming shadow of the UFC always trumps any talk about how a Strikeforce champion might actually be better than a UFC champion, and it's been that way for a very long time.
I hate to admit that, but it's very true. This argument that Strikeforce should show commitment because the belts will be worthless otherwise sounds great in theory, and I would love to hear of an organization that isn't raking in millions like the UFC actually doing this... but it's not a viable option. Strikeforce needs to make money, and making money in this sport today relies of personalities, style match-ups, an ability to hype a fight, and entertaining fighters. Jake Shields wasn't entertaining to a casual fanbase, and Brett Rogers was entertaining. That's why we saw Shields remain unsigned and Rogers explode into main card match-ups.
Obviously, there will be debate on those points, and I don't necessarily agree that my points are the way I feel about Strikeforce's handling of the situation. But the fact of the matter is that there is no way they can make everyone happy and remain profitable. There is no reason to shove Sarah Kaufman on a Strikeforce main card. She has, however, given credence to the thought that she may be able to create a means to an opportunity on a main card with her slam knockout win over Modaferri. I'm sure if women's MMA had more proven finishers, my view would differ a bit.
Much like Diego Milito is in the shadow of great Argentinian soccer players like Lionel Messi, Gonzalo Higuian, and Carlos Tevez, Kaufman is also in a shadow, but one much greater. She's not only in a shadow of much more exciting fighters like Cris "Cyborg" Santos and Maxim magazine Hot-listers like Gina Carano, but Strikeforce also has relatively unknown up-and-comers who can draw just as much or a bit more than the 135 pound women's champion.
All this talk about how her title matters when it comes to where she's placed on a card is absurd. Ratings are what matters to Strikeforce, and putting together fights that will entertain viewers is their business. Unfortunately, Kaufman doesn't fit into that mold just yet. It's obvious fan interest dwindles when it comes to women's mixed martial arts, so why should a promoter risk giving it a "commitment" when it's a proven rotten egg with the exception of a few women fighters. It sucks for women's MMA, but that's where we're at right now. Deal with it.
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Sarah Kaufman isn’t aprovendraw, norprovenentertainment… and women’s mixed martial arts as a wholehasn’t been able todoesnt provide that either.
fixed it
by 20dawk20 on Jul 26, 2010 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
“I don’t like women’s MMA so none of these points matter to me.”
Fixed yours too, brah.
Get rid of the ramp!
by ihateemo on Jul 26, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
I wouldnt go that far… brah
If I had an edit button I would change one thing though…
and women’s mixed martial arts as a whole HASN’Tbeen able toprovided that either.
I think I can say that I am a fan of the potential of the sport while also saying that, up to this point, womens mma has been a complete flop. Most matches have turned out to be 1 of 2 things, 1) boring kaufman/hashi style snoozefests or 2) ugly Santos/Finney style uncompetitive beatings. Say what you want about the carnival/sideshow draw of watching a monster like Cyborg pound on pretty women (which seems to be more important to SF than record/weightclass) but I dont think either are should be entertaining and/or a draw. (had to edit that last part… as much as I hate to admit it I found myself rewatching that last cyborg fight. Then again though I have the video of the recent oakland/burger king pregnant street fight bookmarked)
At this point I dont think the talent pool of womens MMA has developed to the point where it can even be considered a sport. If there were an army of Gina Carano’s out there… fighters that are talented enough to make 50% of me tune in, pretty enough for the other 50% of me to hang around in case a nip pops out… I’ld be all in (bad shtick). If there were an army of Cyborg Santos out there… women who were genetically bred to kick ass and fight other women who were equally bred/ripped/trained… I’ld be all in again. Unfortunately I just dont think the talent pool is there yet and unfortunately I dont think it has alot of time to catch up. I dont think there can be that many more Cyborg/Finney matchups before 1) someone starts up the “human cockfighting” call to arms against it and/or 2) a young girl gets seriously seriously injured.
“…watching a monster like Cyborg pound on pretty women (which seems to be more important to SF than record/weightclass) but I dont think either are should be entertaining and/or a draw. "
Did you say the same thing when that monster Leben was beating on Akiyama’s pretty face?
What the hell is the difference? I don’t necessarily like seeing women get hit, but when I watch women’s mma, I don’t see women getting hit, just two people fighting for sport. I have the same reaction to it that I do when I watch men.
by Steven Abbott on Jul 27, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
good stuff Leland
also, the slam was #4 on ESPN’s Top 10 plays
dealing with Post-World Cup Depression
Yeah, saw that. As I stated in the piece, the slam is probably the beginning of something good for her. Hopefully, she’ll follow it up with something great as well. And hey, she might actually get her wish out of this after all.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 26, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we get a fronted fanpost with the ESPN Top 10 Clip?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 26, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Did Stu Scott really just ask for a Sarah Kaufman-Cyborg fight? It’s like ESPN knows just enough to be dangerous.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
It's easy
When you can only name one female fighter that isn’t involved in the highlight
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 26, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair
He probably knows Carano.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jul 27, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Question about one point – Didn’t Kerry Vera and Kim Couture draw the highest Challengers rating of any show? Woodley/Bears was the main event, but the focus of promotion was on that fight. You skipped over that one when breaking down the women on Challengers cards.
http://www.instrength.com
I couldn’t really find the numbers on that, but I’d love to hear what they were. I actually tuned in to see Couture get a drubbing, but I actually like women’s MMA.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 26, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I read it in the Observer
…although jumping to conclusions that it was Carano and without her, nobody wants to see women’s fighting would be ignoring that in November, Kerry Vera vs. Kim Couture drew the highest rating ever for a Challengers Series show.
From the March 10th edition.
I was about to post that, but just found this:
Strikeforce Challengers Series from 11/20 in Kansas City with Tyron Woodley vs. Rudy Bears and Kim Couture vs. Kerry Vera did a 0.68 rating and 172,000 viewers. I believe that’s the best rating a Showtime "B" show has done. I’d attribute that to the woman’s match and the hook of the Couture vs. Vera names and curiosity.
From the Nov 30th edition.
So, not exactly earth-shattering. The “best rating” thing was posted before the Lindland Challengers event, so I guess it doesn’t mean a whole lot. Granted, Showtime was offering a free preview that weekend, so it was expected to get much higher ratings than normal (the Lindland card I’m referring to).
http://www.instrength.com
It had the names of two successful UFC fighters
and Tyron Woodley. Not much of a statement for Women’s MMA. More of a statement wives having recognizable names.
by ImmortalTechnique92 on Jul 26, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention it was one week after
Randy Couture fought Brandon Vera
That there was some trickeration!
When I heard Snowden call her a diva
I immediately thought he must be this guy:

by ImmortalTechnique92 on Jul 26, 2010 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I understand the reasining behind all angles of this debate and this debate is a good one...
I was mostly just against Sarah getting hate for asking to be treated like everyone else.
but if we are playing a blame game I find it a lot easier to find oddities in what Strikeforce has done, right or wrong these things are much bigger issues that what Kaufman said:
- Creating a champion in a division that doesn’t have the star power for one
- Creating a division that is a “project” when you don’t have the infrastructure to support it.
- Continually devaluing their own titles by placement on the card
- Promoting fighters like Wes Sims and Nagy to high profile main card appearances for spectacle sake
- Threatening fans win Bautista on PPV
I understand why they have to do what they have to do, but I also wonder how much their credibility and the credibility of MMA on the whole takes a hit every time they do something questionable.
There are still a lot of people out there who will tell you “MMA is not a sport”. Do things like this that devalue the sporting aspect and increase the spectacle? Do things like this give them more steam behind their argument?
# Promoting fighters like Wes Sims and Nagy to high profile main card appearances for spectacle sake
# Threatening fans win Bautista on PPV
As sad as these are, they are casual fan friendly ways to bring in dollars, which is what they need. Sure, we can sit here and say it’s stupid as fans who have followed MMA for a long-time, but it has worked to an extent. Well… maybe not Sims. That was just awful.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 26, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
For a sport that may still be on shakey legs in places and has no legs in other
Do you feel increasing the spectacle and decreasing the sporting merits could be harmful?
I do understand the logic and I know why they do it. I understand the benefits, but is there a cost?
Well, you have to walk the fine line. One spectacle fight mixed in with four major, legitimate bouts isn’t going to hurt the sport long-term. If you start packing cards with 3 former WWE guys vs. 3 former NFL guys with less than 6 months training, then that’s a problem. I would believe a lot of fans would shy away from SF altogether if something like that happened.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 26, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Well they did Lashley and Walker on the same card.
I thought that was pushing it, luckily the rest of the fights were very solid.
Strikeforce wants to have their cake and eat it too. Boast to the world that they have the best female fighters and then relegate their 135 pound champ to the small shows for small money.
It sucks for women’s MMA, but that’s where we’re at right now. Deal with it.
I like the way that Kaufman is dealing with it. She’s asking to be treated fairly.
The firecracker formerly known as "Emma May"
Follow me on Twitter @m4quinon
Treated fairly in an environment that really shouldn’t treat anyone fairly right now. They need drawing power and long-term profitability, and Kaufman, as much as I hate to say it, isn’t that. But perhaps Coker gives her chance due to the KO of Modaferri. It’d be nice to do, but is it worthy of a main card? I’d say the first fight of the evening potentially.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 26, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The whole point of being champion is the treatment. Being provided a bigger spotlight to perform, a bigger paycheck, and an opportunity to pull in more endorsement money from your sponsors.
I don’t think that anyone is saying Kaufman needs to be the main event of a main card, but is it really going to break Strikeforce to put her 2 or 3 fights a year somewhere on their main cards?
The firecracker formerly known as "Emma May"
Follow me on Twitter @m4quinon
by Candice on Jul 26, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Two or three fights a year on a main card? Yeah, it could very well hurt Strikeforce to do that. I was actually thinking ONE main card event would suffice for now for Kaufman.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 26, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, if they are afraid that having Kaufman on their main cards won’t draw fans then I guess maybe they need to figure out how to fix that problem. Maybe hire the All Elbows crew to do some awesome promo videos.
They decided that women’s MMA was important and wanted to be pioneers and leaders in showcasing that talent. It’s their responsibility to follow through and figure out how to make it work for their talent and the bottom line without disregarding the value or their titles. Because while you may not think their belts mean anything, I doubt Strikeforce would agree.
The firecracker formerly known as "Emma May"
Follow me on Twitter @m4quinon
I have been on your side for most of this debate, but
“Because while you may not think their belts mean anything, I doubt Strikeforce would agree.”
- Fighters coming off loses get title shots.
- Fighters with 8 – 7 records get title shots.
- Le vacated his title only to fight a couple months after the new title holder was determined.
- Shields walked after defending his belt.
- Overeem went two year without defending his belt.
- Diaz has not fought since winning the companies first every WW title
- That WW title was created 4 years after the promotion stated promoting MMA
- Same story for the LHW title
- Fights with Fedor have been promoted as “above the title”
Strikeforce really hasn’t done a lot to show that their belts mean something. Maybe they are still learning how to book fights and work around the title, since the used to largely work one card at a time, but their titles are definitely lost in the transition here.
I take your point. But do you know what all of those fighter you name have in common? Strikeforce hyped them and presented them on main cards as top tier talent. Showcased them. Flew them out to cards leading up to the title fight to interview them on camera between bouts and spent some resources to present them as big important fighters people should care about. You know, treated them like champions and top contenders.
And sometimes they just steal stars that some other promotion built, sure. But like I said, if they want to be the pioneering organization for woman’s MMA then they need to do the work of building their stars.
The firecracker formerly known as "Emma May"
Follow me on Twitter @m4quinon
Do they want to be the pioneering organization or did they think...
Hmmm…. We can be the bit time players in WMMA and make some money only to realize it was harder than they thought…
Candice, you're using ideals and not talking about reality
Unfortunately when Strikeforce is completely dependent on the shaky relationship with CBS/Showtime they can’t afford to put unproven draws on big shows. And the fact that you didn’t mention any anger about Kaufman’s spot on this past challenger’s event prior to the card airing says a lot. She is a ratings nightmare and with the talent pool at 135 being extremely diluted they don’t have enough challengers. Unfortunately the second reality is that WMMA for most male fans, myself included, is dependent on one of two things: Good looking or Total monster. Gina Carano became the face of women’s mma because she was good looking. Cyborg is the new face because she’s a beast.
Strikeforce can’t afford bad ratings which is why they are signing Hershal Walker and Dave Baustista (Batista). You may think the term diva is sexist and makes someone a bigot, but the same term has been used to describe Erin Toughill and no one within the media has ever batted an eye at that.
Sorry, just figured I’d have all my responses to you in one post instead of many.
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by Matthew Roth on Jul 26, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
If that’s Strikeforce’s reality, then:
-they should stopping making promises to talent that they can’t keep
-they should stop promoting “champions” as if they mean anything
-they should actually try building up interest in fighters rather than just signing ex-football players and pro-wrestlers
-they should try and control their own narrative a bit so they don’t get called out in public by their talent.
Yeah, that’s Strikeforce’s reality. They’re the ones who made it; everyone else just has to live with it. Wouldn’t YOU be pissed if you were the one who had been lied to, ignored, disrespected, and had to forfeit a lot of potential earnings in the process?
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
What promises did they make?
They promised Kaufman fights on their big cards? That’s extremely doubtful after she was a ratings cancer for her previous challengers fight.
None of their championships mean anything outside of the 145 women’s title.
Ratings mean more with their business model, those ex-football players and pro-wrestlers are keeping them afloat.
I agree with this final point, they’re terrible at the PR game.
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by Matthew Roth on Jul 27, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, if they are afraid that having Kaufman on their main cards won’t draw fans then I guess maybe they need to figure out how to fix that problem
you fix that problem by cutting bait and waiting for the next hand to be dealt rather than pushing all in on your pocket 7’s.
By giving womens MMA even this small platform of performing on their B-level showtime shows they are pioneering the sport and doing more for it than the next 5 promotion companys combined. Its not strikeforces fault that the fighters/talent pool hasnt progressed to that next level yet.
The whole point of being champion is the treatment. Being provided a bigger spotlight to perform, a bigger paycheck, and an opportunity to pull in more endorsement money from your sponsors.
The point of being a champion is knowing you are the best in the world. Everything else is a perk.
If you are in anything solely for money and / or fame you are in it for the wrong reasons. Sure better treatment is usually part of the package, but it isn’t the reason they invented gold medals and championship belts / trophies.
Strikeforce's belts ARE pretty worthless
But I don’t really agree with this:
Strikeforce’s titles are really nothing more than a way to see some great five round battles.
Maybe that’s the idea in theory, but four their recent higher profile title fights all went the distance and were not entertaining to the casual fan. Two of those were Shields’ “fault” I suppose, but still.
It doesn’t make sense to crown a champion then not promote them, but since Jake Shields was considered an expendable asset I don’t know why Kaufman thinks she’s in a position to be demanding higher profile fights. Strikeforce should give her what she wants and have her fight Kerry Vera. I’d love to see that fight.
Get rid of the ramp!
It doesn’t really matter how you put it. The titles are worthless. They don’t mean a damn thing other than giving us a five round fight or having someone scream how the next fight is for a title. Everyone who follows MMA, even casually, recognizes the UFC as king.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jul 26, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
But I suppose the difference is...
Strikeforce are the most high profile place for women’s MMA and actually have the potential to scoop up the best female fighters in the world. Why they don’t have Tara LaRosa (who lost to Roxy at Moosin) and Megumi Fuji (who is fighting in the Bellator women’s tourney, IIRC) is beyond me. In that regard, Strikeforce COULD be pushing a legit champion if they put together some more fights rather than tacking them onto Challengers cards as an afterthought.
…but then nobody likes women’s MMA do they? So it’s all a moot point. Harumph.
Get rid of the ramp!
Fair enough, a lot of people crapped on:
Shields
Kaufman
King Mo
Aoki
who am I missing…
after recent 5 round fights
Mousasi copped a lot of flack
for his performance. Fans had gotten used to his wrecking capabilities in DREAM and saw how he smashed Babalu and expected the same thing to happen to Mo.
And by fans I mean “I”. Wonder what’s next for him.
Get rid of the ramp!
It’s ironic that people are saying no one cares about wmma but the only fight that was even talked about before and after the fight was the wmma fight.
And it was the wmma fight mentioned on sportscenter and fedor’s loss wasn’t even mentioned on sportscenter.
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
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by ekc on Jul 26, 2010 5:04 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Actually I saw the Fedor loss on Sportscenter the next day.
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
Thanks for this, Leland...
You presented a nice middle ground between Snowden and Black Lesnar. Plus, you wrote in a way that wasn’t trying to intentionally stir the pot.
My only counterpoint would be with this:
I think the belts are already worthless.
I think their mens belts are already worthless, and they’ll never usurp the UFC’s belts as the “real” titles, but Strikeforce could definitely build itself up as the home of every linear women’s champion, and now’s the time to start doing it.
I actually don’t think Sarah should be headlining on Showtime/CBS—from a business standpoint right now, that’s ludicrous—but putting her on the undercard of a Challengers show does almost nothing to promote her.
Get her in the second or third spot on Showtime or CBS and start pushing the women’s divisions as “the best in the world.”
Hey, I just made an identical point
But I also made the point that NOBODY LIKES WMMA. To play devil’s advocate – who cares if they have the fighters in the world if nobody wants to watch them fight?
Pretty girls getting smashed up makes a lot of people sad and “ugly” girls getting beaten up won’t persuade a lot of dudes to tune in if they can’t rub one out to the fighters in Maxim beforehand.
Personally I really enjoy women’s MMA. Eye candy is nice (hi Gina, hi Kerry, hi Miesha) but exciting fights are better. I’m also a minority in this view though. :(
Get rid of the ramp!
A lot of people—people who love MMA now—didn’t like the idea of “human cockfighting” either.
I think as far as financial viability is concerned, the question is whether women’s MMA fans are almost exclusively made up of people who were fans of men’s MMA first or if they can draw from a market that’s different from the 18-34 male demographic.
I don’t think it’ll ever be as popular as men’s MMA and 18-34yo males are the coveted demo for advertisers, but Strikeforce’s options are carving a small piece out of a large pie when it comes to men’s MMA or being the UFC of the women’s circuit. Completely abandoning the former for the latter would be still be foolhardy, but I think it’s worth a 2-3 spot on a bigger card and some extra promotional muscle to keep the second option open and see how it develops.
Oh I agree
But at the same time, the numbers speak for themselves. Unless your name rhymes with “Beena Barano”, you’re not going to draw a huge number of eyeballs to the show unless there’s a worthwhile fight between two menfolk.
All this said Strikeforce can’t even promote their MEN’S division properly. If they were going to do the women’s division right they’d be trying to get Carano back in sooner, they’d have brought in Erin Toughill for at least a fight or two before throwing her and Cyborg into the cage, they’d have Megumi Fuji submitting fools, they’d have more of Miesha Tate’s fantastic butt jiggling (heh), they’d have Kerry Vera – a lady I really think has the potential to be another Gina but at 135 – taking a fight or two before bringing her in for Kaufman.
But they’re slacking off or they don’t really care or…I don’t know what the hell is going on at Strikeforce Towers, but they’re certainly not instilling faith that they can be the UFC of women’s MMA.
Get rid of the ramp!
Well, let me say this… the women’s belts aren’t worthless because Strikeforce really sort of is the UFC of women’s MMA… but it isn’t as clear cut. Bellator can compete with that at least. But in women’s MMA, those belts aren’t worthless here.
I do think, in the grand scheme of things, casual fans don’t really care though. Until women become more exciting somehow or somehow fans begin to care, they don’t mean a whole lot.
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by Leland Roling on Jul 26, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Just to add some fuel to the fire
There’s a spanking new article on MMAJunkie about the ratings for the show, some interesting numbers.
“Ratings for this past weekend’s Showtime-televised Strikeforce Challengers 9 event proved solid as the show averaged an audience of 197,000 viewers, an industry source today confirmed with MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com).
The peak audience actually came for the night’s co-main event, a title fight between women’s welterweight champ Sarah Kaufman and challenger Roxanne Modaferri that spiked with 254,000 viewers.
The fight actually topped the Shane Del Rosario vs. Lolohea Mahe headliner, which drew 226,000 viewers."
If these numbers are correct, that’s a pretty good sign for Kaufman. Maybe we could let her on one of the regular cards after all?
by Horselover Fat on Jul 26, 2010 5:54 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If these numbers are correct, that’s a pretty good sign for Kaufman.
Is it?? It shows that 30,000 people changed the channel before her fight ended and Del Rosario entered the ring.
Without seeing the full numbers I cant say anything for sure but on events like this it is normal for viewership to go up as time passes…. people tune in late, others call friends telling them to tune in to channel xyz.
Well, at least they peaked during her fight, right? Just thought I’d share the article, I don’t keep track of all the numbers from previous cards and such.
by Horselover Fat on Jul 26, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Really doesn’t tell us anything. It’s still a decline in ratings compared to her last event. Maybe those people got tired and went to bed? The Challenger cards air pretty late here on the East coast.
Well, at least they peaked during her fight, right?
sure you can say they peaked during the fight… but thats ignoring the fact that 11% of the total audience then changed the channel.
Could be much like what you see with UFC cards as well...
Ever been in a bar and seen the place empty out after the title fight, despite the fact that there is still a re-aired preliminary fight playing on the screen?
“Main event is over, lets go!” kinda thing.
it’s better. Still below the Last two challengers cards.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 26, 2010 6:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Snowden, ratings usually peak during the main event. Here, they peaked during the co-main. People obviously wanted to see Sarah Kaufman. Give her some credit. She also pulled considerably higher numbers than the last Challengers card she was on.
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by Brian Mayes on Jul 26, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Indeed. But it would be hard for her NOT to have improved. One of the benefits of an extremely low rating.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 26, 2010 7:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But you said her last fight was so horrible that people tuned out in droves? Why would anyone want to see her after that last snoozefest? Actually, why would MORE people want to see her after that?
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Strikeforce Challengers doing better across the board. I have no beef with her. Now that she’s only below average instead of way below things are looking up!
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 26, 2010 7:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Snowden, if Sarah Kaufman had decapitated Bobby Lashley with a head kick on the mid-card of a Challengers show and it drew 5 million viewers, you’d probably find something to complain about. ;~)
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Lashley would probably accept that fight. I think.
by Holls Hoyce on Jul 26, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Likely just a cheap shot about her being ugly and having cornrows
by Steven Abbott on Jul 27, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I really kind of thought the only response to this would be “good point”
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by Derek Suboticki on Jul 26, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Does anybody else want to compare this to the girl at Florida State University that wants to complain about how the men fly planes to their football games while her women’s field hockey team has to ride buses to theirs??
Leland, do you think that Kaufman/Roxy drawing more viewers than the Del Rosario fight means anything in terms of the value of a belt or of Kaufman herself? Or is 30k not that big of a deal?
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I don’t really know. It’s hard to tell. Kaufman is obviously being promoted as one of the best female fighters, and certainly the slam will do wonders for her as a fighter. I don’t know if the ratings necessarily mean she’s going to get her wish.
I think it terms of value of the belt, I think her belt, at least, means something for women’s MMA, but in the overall scheme of things — casual fans really don’t care about women’s MMA just yet. Hopefully that changes, but that really leads me to believe the belt has no meaning or at least very little.
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by Leland Roling on Jul 26, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Who deserves to be on a main card more?
Shane or Sarah?
or Chad Griggs?
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by ekc on Jul 26, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i really wish Strikeforce had a “dana white” just to give some sort of opinion of the whole situation… its almost as if Coker has no idea that Sarah is even unhappy with anything… or even knew she was fighting this weekend.
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by ekc on Jul 26, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
What is the benefit to Coker to air a bunch of dirty laundry?
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 26, 2010 7:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
How is it dirty laundry that his champion would like to be on the main card of a Showtime card? That’s not asking much. Nobody complains when Alan Belcher calls out Anderson Silva. It’s called self promotion.
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by Brian Mayes on Jul 26, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
exactly. Coker doesnt even acknowledge he knew his champ was fighting this weekend.
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The fact is that Coker isn’t in complete control over what goes in with Strikeforce, what with CBS and M1 pretty much dictating to him what he can do sometimes. If he acted like Dana, he could end up looking stupid. He can’t really guarantee Kaufman a spot on a main card
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by Derek Suboticki on Jul 26, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re looking at it wrong when you are using names like Chad Griggs. Griggs obviously doesn’t deserve his status on the main card, but he’s being brought in as fodder, my friend. Fodder is deserving as long as they get demolished by who Strikeforce wants to benefit. That’s a completely different topic, and bringing it into this discussion isn’t what I’m trying to get as far as a discussion.
Shane or Sarah… I’d say Shane deserves a main card spot, low main card spot.
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by Leland Roling on Jul 26, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, Inter Milan is my team, along with the Dutch in international competition. I’ll root for the US when they actually have a good team.
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by Leland Roling on Jul 26, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I know… but I can revel in this year’s win.
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by Leland Roling on Jul 26, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
has snowden ever written a positive article or is it just his negative articles get all the attention?
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While i thought that Snowdens initial rant was misplaced and way out of line, i have now come to realize that he is just caught in the web of womens sports in general.
MMAGuard made a brief call on it, and i really think it’s the real problem here.
While the article was (fighter bashing if u ask me) definitely provoking more debate. It’s has also brought us to the real problem that Kaufman is facing.
Womens Sports in general do not do very well next to the male equivalent.
I do think that Snowden is wrong though and just because i think Strikeforce is really missing out here. MMA in general is still VERY young, and it is already established that the UFC id the standard of mens MMA. Strikeforce should be doing everything in their power to make sure that they are the “UFC” of WMMA.
I know they don’t pull in great numbers (yet), and i know that the men will always draw better, but do you want to throw away a guarantee that you are the GOLD standard of WMMA. If they do I’m sure that Dream or maybe Bellator will pick up the slack (much like when the UFC went through it’s dark age and all the fighters fled to Pro Wrestling or PRIDE).
What the hell Leland. It’s like you ripped off all my arguments from the previous comment section and rewrote them, editing them for grammar, adding more in-depth analysis, stronger analogies, and more coherent thinking.
Something i can add: while it is sad that Strikeforce doesn’t show women’s mma the proper respect many of us would hope, we have to remember without them actually being able to draw an audience and collect their license fee from Showtime women’s mma will have zero visibility. In deference to a title holder I would like to see them list Sarah as the headliner for her next bout if it is on a Challengers card, but even then she and Strikeforce would probably be better off having her headline in name only and have another male fight be the actual headliner. The reason: there is still a number of fans with no interest in female mma. By having a male fight finish the show they can stave off the embarrassment of having the neanderthals flock out of the arena when her fight comes on. Or keep them from turning the channel when the last male bout has finished. Would it be disrespectful if Strikeforce did that? Maybe. But wouldn’t it be worse if they showed a half-empty arena during her fight or had Strikeforce asking them not to book female mma because it doesn’t bring in the audience. Isn’t it better to hoodwink and uninterested audience into sampling women’s mma and then get them hooked with what they saw Saturday night?
LOL, I couldn’t even read through all of those comments.
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by Leland Roling on Jul 26, 2010 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Man I'm tired of writing about this. hahaha
Nice piece. I know rating matter (i said that in the the piece nad comments).
Looks like the ratings peaked during her fight and dropped off for the main. You can draw one of two conclusions from that:
1. People wanted to see Kaufman, they did and turned the channel.
2. People got bored by her match and changed the channel
Either way, the supposed draw (Shane) was seen by less people. If it’s the first point, that means Sara is at least somewhat of a draw. If it’s the second, then it justifies my point made in the comments that she should’ve been put main to stem the losses and get Shane seen by the max number of people.
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by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 26, 2010 9:48 PM EDT reply actions
There you go!
You and Snowden should both be hired as a good cop, bad bad routine.
Leland what a great point about Andre Dawson and players being left out of the Hall or there greatness reduced and there overall numbers looked down upson becasue of the numbers players were putting up during the steroid era in the 90’s and 00’s,
So many players career numbers have been seen has just average now making them a good player and not a great player which it takes for the Hall of Fame especially from the 70’s and 80’s. Lets face it when players who averaged about 15 HR’s to tops 20’s HR’s a season in the early 90’s like a Brady Anderson, Brett Boone, Luis Gonlazez, Ivan Rodriguez, etc start hitting a average of 40 to 50 HR ‘s in the mid 90’s its going to set the bar a little higher for whats good and great.
Yeah, and I think a lot of voters are now turning their eyes toward those old era players who had huge numbers in THAT specific era… now that the steroid era has been proven to be a legit period of time.
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by Leland Roling on Jul 27, 2010 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
The Real Question is.......
Why do we care so much?
by Dr. Leo Marvin on Jul 27, 2010 10:43 AM EDT reply actions

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