Sarah Kaufman's Dramatic Knockout Not Enough for Strikeforce Diva
Last night Sarah Kaufman gave female MMA its first "Rampage" moment. In the third round Kaufman countered a Roxanne Modaferri armbar attempt by lifting the smaller fighter overhead and slamming her to the mat-a picture perfect powerbomb. Roxy was out like a light and Kaufman had the dramatic finish she wasn't able to provide in a dull effort to win the title against Takayo Hashi in February.
This moment of glory, however, wasn't enough for Kaufman. In a triumphant victory speech she managed not just to insult Strikeforce, among the first national promotions in the world to take a chance on women in the cage, but also every other fighter on the card.
"Get me on main cards on Showtime," Kaufman said. "I think I deserve it. Put me on there."
Just last year Kaufman was plucked from obscurity by Strikeforce to fight on national television against Miesha Tate, filling in for Kim Couture at the last minute. It was a big jump from taking fights in Vernon, British Columbia, but Kaufman apparently feels she's moved beyond other developing stars like Shane Del Rosario and Bobby Voelker and all the other fighters she threw under the bus last night and earlier in the week at her blog:
Cookies and Man Parts …seem to be the 2 things that will get me on a main Strikeforce card…that and learning how to shake my assets. I am currently the Strikeforce Women’s Welterweight Champion…yet I fought for the title on a Challengers Card. Now, I am set to defend said title against Roxanne Modafferi in just a few days – again – on a Challengers Card.
I know that it’s going to be a fun and challenging fight…and I always welcome that. Roxanne has been around the sport for a long time and will come game to fight; however, I need to take this fight and make a statement.
That statement will be: I deserve to be on a main Strikeforce Card because I am a talented, exciting FEMALE fighter at 135lbs! I will NOT eat a ridiculous amount of cookies to make 145lbs JUST for the opportunity to be on a main card and growing man parts… well that would just be ridiculous :D
Kaufman, it seems, thinks she's too good for Strikeforce's Challengers cards. Remember the context here: in her last fight, also on a Challengers card, fans at the San Jose Civic Auditorium left in droves during Kaufman's fight, the purported "main event of the evening." Here is what our own Brent Brookhouse had to say about Sarah's big moment:
Women's MMA came out as a big loser last night. The fight was totally one sided and very uninteresting. It was clear in the first round that Hashi had nothing to offer Kaufman and the fact that Sarah didn't ever go for the finish just meant that fans were left with no motivation to continue watching. This was supposed to be a high level fight between the top two females at 135 pounds and rather than feeling like high level MMA it felt like watching a sparring session.
A woman who saw the crowd abandon the building like it was on fire in her last fight, in a sport that has seen a grand total of one woman able to draw a significant audience, was actually complaining about Strikeforce putting her in the co-main event of a nationally televised card. The ego on display there is staggering.
Numbers talk. And Kaufman's main event at Challengers 6 against Hashi was watched by just 150,000 fans. The next two Challengers shows doubled that number. Kaufman is in the right place-with other prospective stars looking to attract a following. And the Challengers cards are actually an enormous opportunity for Kaufman and other main eventers in these under the radar cards.
If she was stuck as the opening act of a five fight card featuring Fedor Emelianenko, Dan Henderson, or other Strikeforce fighters with mega wattage star power like Nick Diaz, no one would have talked about her for even a moment leading into the show. Instead, she was a major part of a slow news week. It's the perfect role for her, an opportunity to be the focal point of one of the promotion's nationally televised shows.
I'm not sure who is in her head, encouraging her to dismiss the enormous opportunities given to her, to bury the promotion that gave her a chance, to ignore the inconvenient fact that fans haven't yet embraced her-or females fighting. There's a word for celebrities like this, the ones who lose touch with reality and think they're a little bit more important than they really are: it's Diva. Last night was a great night for Sarah Kaufman. But judging by her speech last night, if you're looking to congratulate her she won't be down with the masses-Sarah Kaufman will be in VIP.
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720 comments
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Comments
She had
every right to say what she did. Championship matches belong on main cards period
by Easedel on Jul 24, 2010 2:08 PM EDT reply actions 20 recs
Is it more prestigious to be a curtain jerker?
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 24, 2010 2:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I started reading this not kknowing who wrote it...
…got about half way through with a forkful of breakfast in my mouth and said “Was this shit written by Snowden?!?” Of course it was.
I promised to stop reading your crap on anything contemporary. My bad.
You made a horrible point and tipped it over with hyperbole. God, maybe I should stop reading your historical pieces too. I started out as such a fan of your writing…
by Django Z on Jul 24, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 17 recs
Django Z
Hilarious! I literally had the exact same moment while reading this article.
I just did the same thing
Execpt it was over dinner. Horrible article once again. Growing trend… and a bad one.
Yep, got a couple paragraphs in and realized all the pretentious hatred and instantly thought Snowden.. I can’t stand this guy, if only I could just filter his articles from showing on the site.
Really?
Anderson Silva’s last title defense didn’t seem fit for the main card after the fact.
Although, to be fair, I certainly didn’t think that leading up to the show. Hindsight, 20/20, and all that jazz.
Brock Lesnar on Nutrition: "What the f*** are 'vegetables'?"
by The MMA Noob on Jul 24, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
That is 100% true if you want to create any legitimacy for the sport.
Title fights deing on the undercard of a challengers card is like the Superbowl being held at the end of September. It makes no sense.
uh, she’s the champ. champs should be on the main card. doesn’t seem indicative of a massive ego to me.
by dr. ransom on Jul 24, 2010 2:09 PM EDT reply actions 10 recs
Agreed. This shit is ridiculous. I think that Snowden is just trying to stir up controversy at this point. The fact that there are over 400 comments on this article would seem to prove me right. I never comment on most of his articles because usually if I disagree with something, I just keep it to myself.
This is just dumb though. In my view, it has less to do with Kaufman and more to do with the fact that Strikeforce can’t run their damn promotion. Of course she has a right to be pissed—she’s the goddamn champion. Bad enough that she’s on a Challenger’s card. They can’t even make her the main event? Why is Cyborg not the co-main event on a Challenger’s card? I’d be pissed too. And Snowden, I enjoyed the hell out of your book and really like your historical articles but you just come off a s a misogynist in this one…
Imagine you're the best in the world at what you do
You wouldn’t be pissed that you’re thrown on the stage with a bunch of C-level guys? Kaufman is inarguably the #1 female fighter at 135. Just think about how frustrating it is to be the BEST at what you do and still you’re looked over again, and again, and again, and again, just because you’re a woman.
I’m not saying the Challengers cards aren’t good opportunities for her, and I’m not saying Strikeforce is being unfair to her, but look at it from her perspective. She is not being a diva.
by crazybones on Jul 24, 2010 2:09 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
What she does doesn't attract viewers...
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
We havent even seen the ratings for last night yet.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Based on one fight? Or how about the fact that barely anybody even knows who she is due to lack of promotion.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Jake Shields didn’t draw any viewers either. I didn’t see Strikeforce putting him on Challengers cards.
still waiting for either snowden or brookhouse to address the jake shields comparison. kind of tears apart their ratings-driven argument, no?
A) Men’s MMA is a bigger draw.
B) Jake was in a division with legitimate and known opponents. Miller and Henderson > Hashi and Roxy.
C) They had a non-title fight headline over Shields’ title fight with Miller. He only headlined when he was fighting a “big name” in Henderson.
D) Being that he was in their “money” division it made sense to keep him as visible as possible. Kaufman was fighting Roxy who lost to Coenen who got crushed by Cyborg. Now she’s going to fight Coenen. Now that she’s fighting someone people have at least seen and has a highlight reel win in her last fight I’m willing to bet we see her on a “main card”
E) they’re running a tournament to try and create some legitimate “excitement” for a Kaufman fight.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
no one was talking about headlining the main card—just having a spot on it.
both shields and kaufman don’t perform well in the ratings (i expect that’s now changed given kaufman’s dramatic finish). putting shields on the main card because there were other fighters who didn’t hemorrhage ratings in his division certainly seems like odd reasoning.
bottom line, he was on the showcase brand because he was the champ, as well he should have been. give sarah the same courtesy.
You’re completely ignoring the context of 1) the M185 division vs. the F135 division and 2) fan recognition of Shields, Henderson, Miller, Kaufman, Roxy, etc.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Imagine you're an MMA journalist
You’ve tried to get your foot in the door for years. You don’t even try ESPN because you know they’d never take you. You go to some mainstream sports site and they tell you, ‘Sorry, there’s not a high demand for MMA journalists write now. You understand – it’s just business.’
So you toil away in some obscure site, writing article after article about the sport you love. And then, after years of hard, unappreciated labor, oh my god, you’re made an editor of BloodyElbow.com! You’ve made it to the big time.
You write your first article and Kid Nate goes, ‘Nah, I think we’ll stick this in the Fanpost section. Your writing style doesn’t really appeal to most MMA fans. You understand – it’s just business.’
The fact is, Kaufman has not been given a chance. Ever. She has not been treated like a champion. Ever. You don’t stick a male champ on a Challengers card, with no promotion, and go, ‘Hey, if he’s good, three million people will tune in!’
by crazybones on Jul 24, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
She was put in the main event of a card (probably as a test) and chased people from the fucking building. Her opponent isn’t particularly strong nor is she well known. The absolute best I would give her at that point is the main event spot on a challengers card. NOW she has a great highlight that may actually help her out in terms of “deserving” a spot on a main card.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Can highlight reels only have one highlight?
…
OK, that’s not entirely fair. God, I’m cranky this morning.
Brock Lesnar on Nutrition, circa 2009: "Vegetables? What the f*** are vegetables?"
by The MMA Noob on Jul 24, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, that’s not even my point. I was just irritated that Snowden talked about her like she was some stuck-up bitch. I was trying to show why a person would make those statements in that situation, and why it doesn’t make her a diva.
It sure seems stuck-up.
Especially when other fighters are just happy to get a phone call.
Brock Lesnar on Nutrition, circa 2009: "Vegetables? What the f*** are vegetables?"
by The MMA Noob on Jul 24, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Other fighters aren't the BEST IN THE WORLD
What if they put Fedor on a Challengers card because he’s a fat guy who doesn’t speak english and doesn’t know how to promote fights?
They’d be wasting a ton of Fedor’s value.
Are you arguing that Strikeforce lost a bunch of money improperly promoting Kaufman?
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
I’ll argue that the ladies 135 division is one of the deepest they have now and they are pissing it away. If WMMA is so horrible for the sport then cut them loose. Some one else will pick them up. I will certainly cancel my subsription. The WMMA events have saved many a SF cards over the years including last nights.
HTML5 + WebM now! Death to Flash!!!
Deepest in terms of what? How many people could name five fighters in the division without the aid of Google? Fuck, how many casual fans could name ONE person in the division?
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jul 24, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely not
I’m not talking about money or business or any of that. I’m just saying Snowden’s an asshole for calling Kaufman a diva because the woman is the BEST AT WHAT SHE DOES and she’s rightfully frustrated at not being recognized for it. That’s why I typed out that long-ass post about ‘Imagine if…’
You might wanna…you might wanna reconsider the “asshole” comment buddy.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
They sure did
it’s called the “Ban Hammer” although the early prototypes only seems to work on message board profiles so far.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Correction
blogging site…comment…type profiles that is.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Fedor would accept it and fucking fight.
Because he doesn’t think he’s God’s gift to MMA.
And this is DESPITE the fact that he’s one of the best in the world.
Brock Lesnar on Nutrition, circa 2009: "Vegetables? What the f*** are vegetables?"
by The MMA Noob on Jul 24, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Corrections
M-1/Fedor would accept it and fight so long as the oppenant was right, the price was right and the check cleared.
He is well enough known already, he fights for $$, not recognition.
Then again, its hard to pay the bills with recognition…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 24, 2010 6:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And none of that had any thing to do with Hashi refusing to fight? So the Spyder should be relegated to UFN cards because that guy kept flopping on his back?
HTML5 + WebM now! Death to Flash!!!
Hey now
the “Spider” is Anderson, the “Spyder” is the guy that looks like someone deflated Brandon Shuab and covered him with drawings while he was asleep in the frat house.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
by Fake Emcee on Jul 24, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
That might be the worst argument i’ve ever heard.
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by amadeus on Jul 24, 2010 6:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I thought this was Sport
Sport is about being the best. Sometimes the best is a draw, sometimes they are not. Nobody liked watching the New Jersey Devils play hockey for years, but they were a very good team. The NHL didn’t tell them they weren’t welcome in the playoffs.
The sport is still growing and it isn’t looked at as legitimate by many, this makes it look worse.
There is business to every sport
whether you want to admit it or not. You can’t compare established sports like hockey to MMA.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Comparing MMA to team sports in that context doesn’t work.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
She is one of the best at what she does...
If MMA is truly sport, that should be enough. Team or not, nothing else matters. They don’t ban people from Olympic competition because of potential ratings issues. Sports, all sports are about determining who is the best and the best are put on a bigger stage. This is the norm.
Not in individual competition where ratings play a big part. Let’s go back to the “best in sport” argument with team spors. There’s a reason why the “boring but good” teams are rarely chosen for national games. It’s usually teams that are exciting and have a big fanbase.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
No...
because the reason networks pick up sports is for ratings.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Ratings don’t play a big part in all sports or something now?
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
They do play a part.
How many times a year are the Cowboys and Steelers in primetime games and broadcast as the national game? Seems like almost every fucking week, right? Why is that? BECAUSE THEY ARE REALLY FUCKING POPULAR!
All the other games are regional which means they are broadcast where the home team plays; obviously those people will watch because it’s their favorite team. It’s a brilliant system. They do the same thing.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
In her last fight, she looked like a C-level fighter.
If Sarah had slammed Hashi instead of gently punching her in the cheek for five rounds, I bet she’d have been on a bigger card without the dramatics.
Brock Lesnar on Nutrition, circa 2009: "Vegetables? What the f*** are vegetables?"
by The MMA Noob on Jul 24, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
We started this last night, but your post leaves out one very important thing in the explanation – she’s a CHAMPION. She’s holding a company belt. She should absolutely be ahead of Shane Del Rosario in the pecking order, because she’s at the top of her weight class. Whether it’s entertaining enough for you isn’t really the point – the point is it’s an insult to any champion to not be presented on TV like one. I know you don’t like this angle, and Strikeforce have bumbled away the credibility of more than one title without a doubt, but it’s a shame she’s not given the credit she deserves.
If you’re going to promote women’s MMA, you have to treat it like any men’s weight class – it has to be treated and promoted as the best. Burying a title defense between Shane Del Rosario was an insult last night, and her not getting a shot on a main card will be an in insult if it doesn’t happen soon, especially after that performance.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 2:09 PM EDT reply actions 16 recs
*between Shane Del Rosario
should read BEHIND SDR
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
She's a champion, but she's not draw.
Well, I certainly agree that Sarah Kaufman should’ve been headlining that night, but she didn’t prove herself a big enough ratings draw beforehand.
Besides, I feel like Strikefarce at least does a competent job of promoting Women’s MMA, regardless of their insulting way of marketing Mrs. Cyborg as a “beast” before she became their champion. Difference is, it’s exciting to watch fighters like Cyborg and Carano. During the last Kaufman fight, I kept leaving to make snacks in the kitchen.
Brock Lesnar on Nutrition: "What the f*** are 'vegetables'?"
by The MMA Noob on Jul 24, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't know
On had to prove themselves as a draw before they could headline.
Championship fights should headline. Period.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
That wasn't the argument, Subo.
It was about her getting a spot on a bigger card. I’m not disagreeing that Kaufman deserved to be headlining Challengers 9.
I’m saying that I understand WHY Strikeforce put her behind Shane Del Rosario.
Doesn’t mean I endorse it.
Brock Lesnar on Nutrition, circa 2009: "Vegetables? What the f*** are vegetables?"
by The MMA Noob on Jul 24, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
This is same org
That had a fight involving Scott Smith and Cung Le, headline over a title fight involving Gilbert Melendez and Josh Thompson.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
Sorry.
StrikeFORCE – that was an honest typo.
Brock Lesnar on Nutrition, circa 2009: "Vegetables? What the f*** are vegetables?"
by The MMA Noob on Jul 24, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Freudian slip?
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 24, 2010 6:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That isn’t the only thing being left out. Theere is also the fact that Erin Toughill is getting her tune up fight against some one picked to loose on a main card. Any one that fights at 145 no matter how good or bad makes the main card. Any one at 135 even though it is a far more stacked division no matter how good or bad makes the main card.
This isn’t about male or female. It is about 10lbs determining if you have any value or not.
HTML5 + WebM now! Death to Flash!!!
This is true everywhere?
How many big non-title lightweight fights have main evented a UFC PPV? When Sean Sherk and Anderson Silva both defended at UFC 73, who was the main event and who fought in the second spot?
I’m not saying it’s impossible for a lighter weight fighter to be the draw over a heavier fighter or that there haven’t been exceptions. But that’s the general rule.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Funny thing about that is
that the Sherk-Franca fight came on BEFORE the Tito-Rashad fight.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
I do understand her frustration but it came off completely wrong
Every other Strikeforce Champ either fights on CBS or Showtime real cards. This included Jake Shields who also was ratings kryptonite. It has to be insulting being the champ not on those cards.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 2:10 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
Of course she should feel this way
You have a very nasty habit of running fighters over after they have career defining victories. What is she supposed to say— that despite her amazing finish last night, she’s still just a 135 pound woman and she hopes to lurk in obscurity for the rest of her fighting days? She’s trying to improve her equity and tons of fighters do this sort of thing, even ones that don’t deserve it. She deserves to be featured on a major televised card. You want to blame someone? Blame Strikeforce for their inability to tape and play undercard fights when the time allows for it. Del Rosario and co wouldn’t have to be relegated to the Challengers cards until they’re 10-0.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Blackout612 on Jul 24, 2010 2:13 PM EDT reply actions 15 recs
You have a very nasty habit of running fighters over after they have career defining victories.
No kidding.
Snowden loves hatin’ on a winner.
by Steve4192 on Jul 24, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
When you guys run a website tell me how it goes when the discussion doesn’t come until days after the event. There’s a one day window to discuss this event-it’s now or never.
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 24, 2010 2:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It’s not about timing, it’s about the overtly negative content you have to put into it as though you go out of your way to shit in everybody’s cornflakes. If you posted these stories years out people would still think you were being just as silly.
Btw, I rather enjoy it myself, keep up the good work ol’ boy.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
by Fake Emcee on Jul 24, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I have developed and run many websites
Why do you regularly resort to this sort of retort? Behaving as though none of us have any life experience. Your patterns of journalistic behavior don’t hinge on whether or not I’ve written a book about MMA or climbed Kilimanjaro.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Blackout612 on Jul 24, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 12 recs
No, but your ability to judge and recognize them clearly does. Go climb a mountain, then talk to me.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm rec'ing this comment because you said "resort", "sort", and "retort" in the same sentence.
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
by SSreporters on Jul 24, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for putting your finger on what's been bugging me
I don’t always agree with Kid Nate, but I never feel like he’s patronizing me. Snowden’s basic argumentative tactic seems to be questioning my worthiness to argue.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Monte Fisto on Jul 26, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Th real question is for Luke, Leland et al.
At what point do they think “Hmm, maybe bringing Snowden aboard was not such a good idea.”
When he stops attracting so many readers and so much attention.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Jul 24, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Probably never since he gets about a million comments per piece.
I have no idea why I’ve gone into Snowden defense mode.
by PlantingaFan on Jul 24, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Leland? Not to disparage him, but all decisions go through Nate and Luke. Leland’s a bums staff writer like myself.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Sorry, I'm not that sharp on BE
Didn’t have the masthead up on the right side next to me when I wrote that.
I really doubt the readership numbers are reflecting that it was a bad idea. You knwo what makes it a good idea? The fact that people spend above average times on the site looking at his pieces.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
So viewers over quality?
What, is BE the Strikeforce of MMA sites now?
by simpsycho on Jul 24, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No. What I’m saying is that writers are brought on to this site to present their viewpoints. The fact that Snowden’s tends to generate discussion and keep people on the site is good. And yes, believe it or not we’re not exactly rolling in cash here so having good traffic numbers is important as we try to grow the site.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
It's nice to know
That you will allow this dude to tarnish your site until you have enough cash to dump him and make it better. At least that is what your plan should be.
All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring. We must never, ever be boring.
Chuck Palahniuk
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn
that was one of the most cold blooded bannings I’ve ever seen, that was some straight Caligula shit right there.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
by Fake Emcee on Jul 24, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Fair enough - if he generates pageviews
But he is starting to lower my enthusiasm and reading (and pageviews) of BE as a whole.
Shock jocks can be very popular (when they are good at their craft), but sometimes they come into a market cause a big stir, but ultimately fail in the market. I wonder if Snowden might have that impact overt time.
There is still a lot of great writing on this site, but Snowden is lowering my general impression of it and I don’t think I’m alone.
Also
We’re not dumb, we won’t rise to his bait forever. At some point a weariness sets in with shock journalists. Particularly on the internet.
This is my last post on a Snowden article. And my last time reading any of his posts – so long as I notice his name before I click on it :)
The bump in discussion is people expressing displeasure though. It’s only because people already cared about BE that they have a reason to post about the content of his articles which shows up as inflated discussion. You’re cashing in on the long developed goodwill that won’t last forever.
Or at least my goodwill.. can’t speak for everyone but I see a lot of rec’d posts that reflect my own view. I don’t mind an article about the merits of Kaufman or WMMA being on a main card. But this is a fighter bashing article over a perceived slight that doesn’t exist.
That’s ridiculous. Almost every topic has people supporting both sides. What an ego to believe everyone is both as disinterested in honest debate and as thin skinned as you appear to be.
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 24, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I can see my comments may sound like an overreaching categorization of the responses, I don’t mean to say ‘all posts are agreeing with me’ in any way.
I’m just saying I see enough that feel this way that it’s noteworthy, and that those posts are saying ‘why is this here?’ which is something I haven’t seen before. And that I, personally, am not enjoying these articles that seem like ‘ is ’.
Brock Lesnar is a hack. Sarah Kaufman is a diva. That’s what I’m reading.
Anything you disagree with is “trolling” or “bad?” What a way to approach life.
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 24, 2010 4:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Way to turn up the hyperbole there Jon.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
You are a funny one....
Can you please quote me where I posted “Trolling”? Anywhere on this article? Why no you can’t. But you sure do have a great imagination…. and that leads us to….
Bad? 100% If you would like me to rehash what 100’s have said already I’ll gladly do so. In my opinoin they should only let you do the history posts. You, so far have not been good with anything else article wise on this site. It just disgusts me how this site has gone down since you came on board.
Now can you please quote me where I said “trolling?”
by McCawFF on Jul 24, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
good bye
and good riddance.
I don’t need people who joined in May of this year telling me how the site isn’t what it used to be.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Honest Question....
what did he say that was ban-worthy?
by Broke Lesnar on Jul 26, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't recall using either of those words
Either you’re a man with a remarkable amount of unpopular opinions or you intentionally post things that you know people are going to disagree with in order to get a reaction out of them. If you want to call that trolling, I won’t disagree with you.
It’s cheap heat though.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Have to ask, Brent ...
Do you think it’s worth having someone “stir the pot” like this for page views?
I’m not saying Jonathan has no place here — I respect the guy. But this is a tad sensationalistic, and it’s out of character for the site you all have built here.
if he were making up stupid opinions to get page views that's one thing
but Mr Snowden has been a hate magnet with his contrary opinions ever since the first time he posted a comment here.
As long as he’s being honest, it’s all good. The site was built to foster discussion. Here we are discussing.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
If anything, this story is underplayed. Can you imagine an NBA player criticizing TNT in a post game interview with Jim Gray? What if the player was from the WNBA and brought the tricky issue of gender into the mix. Would opinion columnists nationwide sit on their hands? Why should we?
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 24, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
"What if the player was from the WNBA and brought the tricky issue of gender into the mix."

The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
by SSreporters on Jul 24, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If a player falls during a WNBA telecast, does it make a sound?
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Blackout612 on Jul 24, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Bad examples on both parts
Why is the player calling out TNT and how is that similar to Kaufman? Kaufman didn’t call out Showtime she simply feels she should be featured on a higher profiled show being a champion and all, and no matter how you personally feel about the value of the championship or the division itself it is still a legitimate gripe for her to have. Secondly she made no mention of gender Snowden, and even still if you’re saying “I feel like this particular group I belong to is getting short changed for whatever reason” like thats a bad thing to say if it’s true.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Here's part of her quote
“I think I deserve it. Put me on there.” Is that really so bad Snowden? That’s honestly no worse then Mirko Cro Cop asking Dana not to be cheap and to give him the submission of the night bonus for a sloppy RNC after his last fight. I don’t know why this bothers you to this end, even the people agreeing with you aren’t as adamant about it as you. It’s honestly starting to make me think, along with the kind of language you’ve used recently, their might be some kind of underlying issue.
And I’m sorry but the “I was relaxing and commenting and now it’s getting thrown in my face” thing doesn’t really work here. You shouldn’t have made sketchy comments and then the next day wrote an article that many find to be tinged with sexism. You sound like a politician that gets surprised when the opposing side bring up something negative from his past to make him look bad.
I’m personally not trying to call you out for sexism, but there does seem to be something odd about this stance of yours to be honest.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
What the hell
what is it with me and using the right there, their, they’re?
Anyway hopefully I don’t get the ban hammer swung my way, just trying to have an honest dialogue here.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
yeah
because a site like BE just isn’t made to handle heated discussion. “we can’t take much more o’ this capn’ I’ve got the warp drives on 10”
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Its what I tune in for
I enjoy the spirited debate that goes on here, even when it occasionally slips somewhat off-topic (i.e. parts the AS PPV issue).
As I’ve said before, I don’t much care to read lame-ass op-ed type pieces that either state the obvious or where I agree with them all every time and there are 45 comments, all with some variant of “I agree.”
If that means that sometimes writers have to play devil’s advocate, so be it.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 24, 2010 7:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
When you guys run a website
LOL
I love getting ‘appeal to authority’ responses.
They let me know my comments hit a little too close to home. The only thing better is getting an ad hominem attack thrown in on top.
by Steve4192 on Jul 24, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know, right? It’s like a compliment.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Its not an appeal to authority. Blackout162 doesn’t think I should discuss Kaufman so soon after her big win. My point is there is exactly one day that anyone will care: today. So there’s no such thing as “too soon.”
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 24, 2010 4:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well then
The fact that it’s not a very good point to make at any time doesn’t help matters.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
Or that its the type of thing I see fighters do pretty regularly..
Allen Belcher recently complained about not being in a poster, not having prime times/countdown shows, and being underpromoted, etc… This is atop 15-20 MW. Sarah is the champ in her division and she asked to be put on a main card. If Greg Nagy can get on a main card, Sarah should get on a main card.
by Broke Lesnar on Jul 26, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Just FYI
Strikeforce doesn’t care about or show undercard fights as a cost-cutting measure. I know this for a fact.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
Shitstorm forthcoming……………
Hit me again Tube Sock!
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 2:13 PM EDT reply actions
Another Snowden shitstorm in the making. Believe it or not, I think I’m starting to enjoy these.
"Referees, be sure to step in and stop the fight on time tomorrow, because I might get carried away in the moment and my many punches may end up destroying my opponent." - Tatsuya "CRUSHER" Kawajiri
3 articles i read of his and 3 times i felt trolled
by Easedel on Jul 24, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
I always enjoy the artcles truthfully
Snowden can stir up the shit man. Whether it is intentional or not who knows. I am just glad that his articles are well written, even though they comes off as so polarizing for whatever reason. Strange phenomenon
Hit me again Tube Sock!
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course it's intentional
If I get to into it, I’m sure I’ll ruffle some feathers… You’re a bright d00d, you know how this works.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
Thanks man, and yeah, I do.
Hit me again Tube Sock!
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t mind the Devil’s Advocate approach, and he’ll say that his point is solely about ratings and that’s what should matter to SF. But it’s the twisting of a person’s words to fit his narrow agenda that’s bothering me this time. Calling her a diva is insulting and indefensible.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
I agree
I would avoid these stories altogether if not for the fact that I enjoy a little bit of heated discussion and like to throw cold water on some of his talking points. But yeah, it can be a bit much at times. There are a couple of controversial one-liners that have come about in recent weeks.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
Yup
I’m just going to make my main points and step back from this one. His point is very, very weak. At least there’s usually something to substantiate his point of view, so the articles are interesting. This is a clear distortion.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Really, the regular viewers perception isn’t what bothers me— it’s the impression that is being made on casuals or newcomers to the sport when they Google something like “Brock beats Carwin” and this site, which yields exceptional search results, returns as a top link and someone that doesn’t really know their kimura from their right-cross sees “Carwin and Lesnar are both terrible”, it makes MMA look bad. The constant negativity reminds me of ESPN and I don’t care for ESPN. I don’t mind some critical analysis, but I like it to be tempered with positive stories regarding fighters overcoming adversity and how our sport is making strides. It’s all “this fighter is not as good as advertised/is a jerk” and “just wait for the train to crash— we can’t keep growing like this forever”.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
I don't have a problem with constructive criticism
Not everyone’s gonna like what they see. At least Lesnar/Carwin WAS at least partially what he said about it. Even the piece yesterday about Anderson…those were solid points, just not fleshed out very well. But stuff like this does nothing at all. There’s no point other than to antagonize. If he feels Sarah doesn’t deserve that spot, it can be stated in less sexist and more defining terms. This is purely to create animosity, and these kinds of pieces will catch up to him when his credibility starts eroding and he burns out his audience.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I avoided the Anderson article
But I thought the Lesnar/Carwin article had NO place following that event. As a supposed historian of the sport, he should have been crying tears of joy after taking in one of the greatest cards in this sport’s short history. Instead, he decided to scoot up to a desk and write about how the last fight was a talentless spectacle, encouraging hundreds of trolls to ramble on about how Lesnar didn’t have proper technique with his triangle (he did), how the fight should have been stopped in the first (it shouldn’t have) and how Carwin isn’t as good as advertised (he is).
Not a fan of that. Not one bit.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Blackout612 on Jul 24, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
he's entitled to his opinion
and he has a platform to express it because it’s interesting and well written. that’s what opinion writers do, OPINE. deal with it.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Is it really interesting though cause it seems like the majority of the responses for these types of articles are for the most part people coming as close to calling him an idiot as they can without getting banned for it.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Deal with it?
Come on Nate. Don’t send me to my room because I said I didn’t like someone’s opinion. If I can’t express my displeasure with an article, that’s as bad as your inference that I want him to stop writing how he chooses (which I obviously don’t, and I have no idea where you derived such a point).
He can write articles I don’t like, I’ll just keep commenting as much.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Blackout612 on Jul 24, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
that's a win/win
I don’t mind the disagreeing with the opinions. I just tire of the arm chair blog editing.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Nate--
I’m a former writer and the owner of a creative services company, in which I do web development, copy-writing, marketing, social media, branding and SEO (among other things) for small businesses and multiple prominent corporate accounts. Maybe you guys shouldn’t jump to so many conclusions about whether people have any license to criticize such things, because I don’t come out and tout how many sites I have developed & webmaster on a week to week basis. I haven’t said Snowden’s writing is poor, I’ve said that I don’t personally like his material, and I draw a certain perception from it. Don’t get frustrated over this stuff, it’s not worth it. I know you guys expect some gratitude for providing this forum in which to express opinions on our sport, but people are going to disagree, and disagree often, and I feel that I’m intelligently presenting my view on matters. If you disagree with me, I welcome you to it. I’ll defend your right to it.
Besides, I don’t have to have any professional opinion on the matter to disagree with how the Carwin/Lesnar article was handled, especially given the overwhelmingly negative reception to it. I get it that Snowden is bad cop and it’s paying dividends, but it’s paying dividends because people are passionate in disagreement. If I really didn’t like what was going on, I’d stop coming here, but Snowden does what he does in addition to Fagan, Leland, Luke, Nick, yourself and Brent, so I’m not losing my shit over it and accusing you guys of jumping the shark..
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Blackout612 on Jul 24, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Snowden adds a nice mix of contributions
with the community interviews and mma history pieces. and his opinion pieces take the hate off me a little bit.
i didn’t mean any disrespect to you, Arianna Huffington and Glenn Reynolds could come over here and make suggestions and I’d bristle.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
None taken
Just saying— I know I can come off as abrasive at times, but I really just love a good argument. I mean, I don’t have any genuine dislike for Snowden and, in some bizarro way, I kinda appreciate what he brings to the table for generating this volume of discussion. Additionally, I think that, given the aforementioned volume, that BE’s intelligent-commentary vs trollish-bullshit ratio is pretty remarkable. Despite the messy bits in between, it’s something to be proud of, really.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Blackout612 on Jul 24, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I stayed the fuck away from his last article. I’m a blue eyed Israeli and I want no part of that debate.
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sort of happy I don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m a brown eyed Lebanese.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
My girl is Lebanese just need her to start cooking like her Mother and we could really have something.
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m a big time foodie, but I don’t even bother with Lebanese food. I couldn’t make it anywhere near as good as my mom and my aunts. I don’t even try, but someday I’ll have to.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
Just choose your wife accordingly ha
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think I can date Lebanese girls, actually. And not because of their cooking, but that’s for another time. Haha
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
regardless good luck man.
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
You don’t need luck when you’ve got shoes like these!
Seriously, good luck to you. And don’t tell your girlfriend I said anything disparaging about Lebanese girls. It’s a very small country and I don’t want them to give me the stink eye when I visit next. Haha
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
Don’t need luck when you got Puji Money.
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fuck
I should have thought of that.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
nostalgia
I don’t even bother with Lebanese food. I couldn’t make it anywhere near as good as my mom and my aunts. I don’t even try…
it’s never as good. breakfast is the meal i miss the most.
what a touching story
I’m a blue eyed Israeli…my girl is Lebanese.
actually not sarcasm
We are both American so it’s not as touching as it might seem lol but thanks man
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 25, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I like the fact that regardless of his level of sincerity, you just know it’s gonna bring the community together by taking part in the ensuing chaos.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Herschel Walker, Bobby Lashley, and Kimbo Slice get on main cards
Of course on talent she deserve to be ahead of those guys. But that’s not Strikeforce’s philosophy. This is why so many people think SF is doomed to fail. Far too much short term thinking, no viable long term plan. Are they going to stick with freakshows forever? It won’t work. At this point, Strikeforce should simply be trying to consolidate the position as the #2 organization in the world. They should focus on scouting the best young talent, snatching them up, and building them into good MMA fighters.
Instead, they focus on the freakshows in some desperate, futile attempt to challenge the UFC for attention. Coker, et al: You will never win that fight. Stop fucking with your promotion by trying to win that fight.
by Jeremiah Johnson. on Jul 24, 2010 2:14 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Herschel Walker, Bobby Lashley and Kimbo Slice bring more eyeballs than someone who going into last night would be remembered by most people as “that girl who had that really boring fight last time”
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
True
But— we’re going forward. She did something spectacular last night and this article would have made a lot more sense before that occurred, based on her blog (which doesn’t seem that bad to me, anyway). It’s like writing about how fucking boring people perceive Okami to be after he boxed Linhares face off.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
That's fair...
I think right now you can put her on a main card. I don’t think you could after the hashi fight. She was moved to the main event of a challengers show and the fight was awful. So why would they move her to a better spot? (yes, yes, I get it..the title)
Now she has a big win and going forward I think you can run that highlight and put her on a main show.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
So do you have a problem with her actively promoting herself and saying she should be on the main card? Or do you agree with Snowden that she’s a diva?
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Hang on. I’m going to write up a thing and put it at the bottom of the comments.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly here, does Bobby Lashley even have half the heat that people constantly try to make him out to have? He was only a semi-popular wrestler at most, who’s stormed through a series of unmentionable cans.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
I don’t really believe that Lashley is any kind of a measurable draw in MMA. Sure, he has his inherently curious wrestling marks watching to see if he can really throw a punch, and that gives him an audience+ over any other fighter from the outset, but I don’t think MMA fans are interested in him, and I think he’s squandering his window to make an impact with those carry-over fans that are starting to shrug at news of his fights. He needs a big fight, he just doesn’t know it yet.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
I don't think he is a huge draw...
but compared to Kaufman he’s a huge draw. Compared to most guys who get his spot he is not.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
You seem to have completely ignored my point
Which is that pursuing those eyeballs for a short term boost is a TERRIBLE strategy for Strikeforce and is just driving them further into irrelevance.
Strikeforce can’t compete with the UFC. On any level. At all. They should abandon the freakshows and actually attempt to build a solid promotion from the ground up with young, rising talent.
by Jeremiah Johnson. on Jul 24, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
This sounds like: No one wants you here anyway, so hush up and be grateful you’re invited to the kid’s table, Little Lady.
by Emma May on Jul 24, 2010 2:15 PM EDT reply actions 17 recs
Exactly.
Belittling her by calling her a ‘diva’ is not unlike boxing writers in the 60s accusing Muhammad Ali of being an uppity negro. Like Ali, Kaufmann should know her place and keep her mouth shut.
That is incredibly ignorant.
Yes, telling a non-draw that she should be happy to be in a co main event slot after crashing ratings and driving 90% of the live audience from the building in her last fight is EXACTLY the same as boxing writers who had a problem with Ali’s race.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
His ‘diva’ comment was belittling her on the basis of her sex, just as Ali’s detractors belittled him on the basis of his race.
by Steve4192 on Jul 24, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Ugh, you know he wasn't being sexist.
Stop looking for insults where they don’t exist.
Brock Lesnar on Nutrition, circa 2009: "Vegetables? What the f*** are vegetables?"
by The MMA Noob on Jul 24, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
he wasn't?
what male fighters has he called a diva? (legitimate question)
by Broke Lesnar on Jul 26, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
“Diva” is not a sexist remark. For example: you’re being a total divo right now, letting your hatred of Jon Snowden fill in for a rational argument. Comparing a very accurate description of Kaufman to racial remarks about Ali is way out of line IMO
Bullshit
You changed it to ‘divo’ because ‘divA’ is specifically meant for difficult women. It was and is a sexist term.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s specifically meant for women because it originates from an Italian word for a female singer.
Jon went a little overboard calling her a “diva”, but it most certainly isn’t a sexist comment. For fuck’s sake, the word also means “prima donna”.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
It’s specifically meant for women
End of conversation.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
So is the word "woman"
and that’s not a sexist word either.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
This is ridiculous.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Thinking "Diva"
is a sexist term is ridiculous. Is it generally derogatory? Sure. But it’s not sexist.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
And prima donna has 2 meanings:
1 : a principal female singer in an opera or concert organization
2 : a vain or undisciplined person who finds it difficult to work under direction or as part of a team
You think he’s referring to her singing? Come on. Diva is the accepted female term for prima donna. He didn’t call her a prima donna. He called her a diva. I’m surprised you’re defending this.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
So, it’s acceptable for him to use the term “prima donna”, but not the other word that means the exact same thing because it’s typically reserved for a woman?
I’m defending it because I think people are way too uptight about language.
As I’ve said time and again, I don’t think it was an appropriate word for the situation.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
It’s typically reserved as a demeaning term for women. And while I agree people are too uptight about language, it’s in the TITLE of the piece. And the piece is littered with condescension.
But like you said, you didn’t think it was appropriate. So it’s all good.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
And both are derogatory.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
seriously do people get up and yell at the TV when that snickers ad comes on where they call their friend a diva?
No, because some women wear the term proudly (Aretha Franklin, for one) – it’s kind of the old school equivalent of saying “yes, I’m a bitch, and I’m proud of it.” That doesn’t make either term any more or less insulting by definition.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you are seriously overeacting to the term diva. It’s not nearly as derogatory as you make it out to be, I mean to put it on the same level as bitch? Everybody gets called a diva, male or female. I think it’s insulting to call Kaufman that because she was in no way really displaying that kind of behaviour, but I don’t think it’s insulting to her as far as her being a woman.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Call a co-worker a diva
and see where that gets you. A harassement lawsuit is probable. A journalist should know better than anyone the effects of a single word, and I guarantee that Snowden knew exactly the types of responses he would receive by using that specific word. He’s stirring the pot in an increasingly predictable way. His opinion pieces take on the devil’s advocate roll and incite debate. But yes, the tone of the word and the context in which is was used is fairly sexist.
"The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world..."
Brent, are you saying that Kaufmann should have been happy to get the co-main of a Challengers card? For crying out loud, she came on second to Lolohea Mahe. And to be honest, her fight was the best on that card. Everything else, particularly the first three fights of the card, were just God awful. If she you think she should be happy to co-main above a snoozefest like Cory Devela vs Bobby Voelker or the M-1 Grappling abilities of Mike Kyle and Abongo Humphrey, I really don’t know what to say. Sarah Kaufman and Roxanne Modafferi are two elite level fighters fighting for the #1 spot in their weight divison in a 25 minute fight. At the end of the day, this is still a sport, and the very best deserve a brighter spotlight over some random fighter who is believed to put on a more entertaining scrap. Telling the best fighter in the world in her weight class that she should be happy wherever she ends up on a card is not only uncalled for, it’s a bit sexist. I somehow doubt you would say the same thing of the #1 male fighter in any weight class.
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by Brian Mayes on Jul 24, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is all results oriented thinking though. Were you (or any media member you trust and follow) raising a stink before the event?
If Kaufman and Roxy went out and had a stinkbomb of a fight, no one would be saying anything about this.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Matt Bishop of Lights Out Radio, who also writes for your sister site MMA For Real, wrote this piece before the event that totally blasted Showtime for putting Kaufman in the co-main event.
http://www.mmaforreal.com/2010/7/22/1581549/strikeforce-showtime-have
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by Brian Mayes on Jul 24, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s literally the first thing I’ve seen on it.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
I don’t see how he can responsibly address the issue without discussing the fact that fans by the thousands literally left the building during her last main event. It’s kind of central to Strikeforce’s decision making here.
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 24, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a sport, is it not Jonathan? Her last fight was no worse than Anderson Silva’s last performance, yet no one blinks when he is given another PPV main event. Expecting the champion and the consensus #1 fighter in that division to be the main event of a Challengers show over Lolohea Mahe is not asking much, especially when she ended up turning in the best performance of the entire card.
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by Brian Mayes on Jul 25, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think it's pretty easy to justify Snowden's point of view
By using one of two rationales:
1) He believes that Strikeforce is running based purely on it’s entertainment value, and how many people are watching. They’re focused not on compelling matchups, or honest marketing, but just trying to get peeps to tune in. In short, it’s an entertainment product, and not a sport.
2) He’s trolling for a few extra page views.
I get the point of the article, and in some instances I would absolutely support it, but this article and Bishop’s are two extremes of the spectrum. One guy is taking a company to task for disrespecting their champion(s), and the other thinks that the titleholder who asks to be on real TV needs to be knocked down a peg to what I guess means on to un-aired prelims along with the amateurs, considering where she is today… along with the other fighters asking for a step up. So I guess they get bumped down too. Or something.
Oh, and when anyone tries to figure out whether it’s A or B, let’s try to keep in mind that “A” is the WWE business model. Just saying.
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by -Neil- on Jul 25, 2010 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Like I said long ago MMA is NOT in the sport business
It’s in the entertainment sports business.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 25, 2010 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions
But it’s still a sport. The last time the UFC had a title fight run as a co-main to a non-title main event was UFC 51 – which also happened to be the very last “pre TUF” PPV card. Since then, the UFC has put the title fights as main events no matter what, even when they sucked. For God’s sake, Tim Sylvia vs Andre Arlovski 3 was the main event over the Tito Ortiz vs Ken Shamrock rematch that had been hyped to death on TUF 3. Everyone knew that Tito vs Ken was the “real” main event, but Tim vs Andre was put in the main slot because it was the more meaningful fight. Because this is still a sport when all is said and done, and for it to thrive as a business it has to be taken seriously as a sport. Having your champ play second fiddle to a worn out Ken Shamrock just doesn’t look right.
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They also don't have a division filled with nobodies...
and I don’t mean that as disrespect. I mean that as in they have people in every division they can market and established champions. That’s not the same case.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 25, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
If you’re just looking at it as a sport, what does it matter on what cards and where on those cards Sarah Kaufman fights?
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Because the best fighter in the world at a particular weight class (and that promotions champion) deserves more recognition that just two random Top 50 heavyweights. If you’re the best, you deserve more recognition than just “some guy”. I don’t watch stick and ball sports whatsoever, but I’m positive that the elite teams and players get more recognition than the also-ran bums. As it should be.
I’m sure you all would be absolutley horrified if a Chris Lytle vs Nate Diaz fight headlined a card over an Anderson Silva vs Rousimar Palhares title fight, for example. The Lytle vs Diaz fight would certainly be more entertaining, but Silva and Palhares would be the more meaningful and righteous fight at the end of the day.
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Actually the best fighter in the world in that weight class in Cruz. Right? Isn’t that a big part of the problem?
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 25, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
After the crowd’s response to her last fight isn’t she lucky to have had any platform she could get?
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 24, 2010 2:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That crowd that went crazy when she slammed Roxy into unconsciousness?
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean the AMAZING reception she got after her highlight reel finish, that reception?
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
He's talking about the fight prior to this...
She was put on a challengers show in the co-main spot after CLEARING OUT A BUILDING when she was put in the main event spot.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
didnt jake shields do a similar thing to the CBS ratings though against mayham?
she might not be a draw but the fact is she deserves to be on the main card cause its a title fight
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
He didn't chase anyone out of the building...
it was a bad fight, but it had a main event that kept people in the building. and I covered that above.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure that's a good reply...
Sure, after her last fight one could say that she’s lucky to have any platform she could get. But she made her remarks after last night’s fight, not the one before that. Consequently, her remarks don’t come off as diva-ish.
by PlantingaFan on Jul 24, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
That was on Hashi and people know that. One boring fight does not make someone an automatic non-draw.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
12 -0
9 by KO.
Are we talking Fitch boring here or what?
HTML5 + WebM now! Death to Flash!!!
by j.villain on Jul 24, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That was one fight dude damn, are we gonna hold that shit over her head for the rest of her career after last night? It’s like the people that keep harping on Sheilds for his last two fights, Sheilds who btw did the same thing against Miller as Milk pointed out and still went on to main event his next fight and drive viewers away again. Now that same guy is most likely gonna co-main even a UFC card.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Seriously Brookhouse
what is with you and Snowden and your overwhelming dismissal of Kaufman?
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
by Fake Emcee on Jul 24, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I'm not dismissing her...
I’m just saying, it’s not like she was being mistreated by being put in that spot last night. Going forward you can promote her differently because she now has something you can talk about and showcase.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to be a flip flopper
but I’m actually starting to come around to the idea that Strikeforce made the right decision business wise. I still think she shoud’ve at least main-evented, but I think besides that Strikeforce did make the right move in terms of putting her on a Challengers Card again based on her last performance. Now if they did this to her again after this fight then it would be more of a problem. It does still devalue the championship though regardless.
If everything in life was fair then as a title holder she would absolutely get the chance to fight only on main cards until she losses her belt, but since they do still have to worry about ratings (and they are Strikeforce after all) it was a decent enough call for them to make.
I just had a problem with a lot of the points Snowden made and the way he made them, and you did start off the night with “I hate women’s MMA” mister.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
So she is supposed to pay for Strikeforce's promotional failures and
be okay with being treated like every other champion.
I understand it makes business sense to put here there, but that isn’t the point. This is about legitimacy as a sport and if Strikeforce isn’t equipped to do that, they are the problem.
I am a Strikeforce fan and I watch every show, but I don’t understand getting upset with Kaufman for wanting to be treated like everyone else. Strikeforce chose to get into women’s MMA it is there responsibility to put both feet in. Standing there with one foot in and one foot out is unbecoming.
No, she is paying in this instance for her snoozer of a last fight. That last fight she was in had nothing to do with how much she was promoted, the people that were watching tuned out. I’m saying I can see Brent’s point and understand where Strikeforce is coming from business wise, I’m not saying I necessarily agree with it. I’m also still very much in disagreement with Snowden and his flakey points he’s trying to make.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
That doesn’t explain her last title fight being on a Challengers card.
HTML5 + WebM now! Death to Flash!!!
That was to find out who would get the newly created title and nobody knew dick about either woman fighting, except for the fact of course that they don’t have dicks.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Why is this so difficult to grasp?
Its all about the ratings?
Say GSP vacates WW and moves to MW and Fitch and Paulo are fighting for the vacant WW title.
On the same card Carwin fights JDS, Machida fights Rampage and BJ fights Maynard – all non-title fights.
Does anybody seriously think Fitch-P. Thiago headlines that card? Hell no.
This is an extreme example I admit, but the simple fact its a title fight does not change the fact its a non-draw and should be treated accordingly, especially a newly created title, and in Strikeforce no less (HWs anyone).
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 24, 2010 8:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Read the comments before the fight last night. They just hate WMMA on principle. OK fine. I have very little use for the UFC any more but I have never written a fan post blasting it and I very seldom comment on the stories about it. I like what I like and I let others like what they like.
HTML5 + WebM now! Death to Flash!!!
All fighters are lucky for the opportunity to fight. But, If we’re talking about crowd pleasing performances, GSP and A. Silva will be lucky to have any platform they can get after their last performances.
Silva
This is what I was going to say. Silva better thank his lucky stars he’s not co-main eventing fight night.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
Yeah, well…Silva and GSP also have the UFC promotional machine and a long win streaks against the best in the world (who people know).
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
The point I’m making is that I doubt that you felt those men DESERVED to be demoted after their performances. Double standards. Sexism. I wouldn’t call you a name because I wouldn’t want to get banned but I’d look at those definitions and then take a long honest look in the mirror if I were you.
Or just keep writing stuff like this, ‘cause, hey it brings the hits and that’s what really matters, right?
by Emma May on Jul 24, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
If we’re being fair, Anderson Silva was “demoted” to the co-main after the Thales Leites fight.
Regardless, this is a really unfair accusation/insinuation.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
It's not sexism to say..
that the womens 135 pound division does not have any star power in it and as such does not deserve (from a business/ratings standpoint) the same level of attention as the mens 185.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
What? That the hell?
Why was GSP’s performance worthy of demotion? He had Hardy in tight armbars.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 25, 2010 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions
The comments are the fight was happening were even worse.
He picked the “ugly chick with the corn rows” to win
Yeah, exactly
He made a few sexist and pointless comments last night.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually
It was “ugly broad”
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Holy shit, really?
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
So...
Snowden made those comments? Well, I guess this is just another biased piece. Biased against woman’s MMA and possibly a womanizer.
not to mention she got to fight near her home town so all of her fam and friends could be there. I like her, but she could have shown more gratitude.
Your beliefs become your reality.
by Hardy's in your face on Jul 24, 2010 2:17 PM EDT reply actions
Gratitude?
Because they booked the event 150km from her house? They book every 3rd or 4th Challenger show in the Pacific Northwest.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I know the Northwest is some great mystery to ESPN
But I thought regular folks knew that it’s kinda, you know, big. And there’s a national border involved.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
Looked like an exciting win to me....

by Barrelroll on Jul 24, 2010 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
finally
what we should have been talking about the whole time. what should have been in the original article.
freak a leak
Who gives a shit?
As an athlete she’s gonna have a bit of an ego about what she does, and apart of that ego is feeling that she deserves the best possible opportunities she can afford as long as she’s performing up to standard. It wasn’t an insult to anybody else on the card cuase for one nobody else on that card had a title, and secondly I’m sure anybody else would want to have a bump up to the main card themselves. She didn’t say “fuck the rest of these broke dick bastards, I deserve better,” she feels that apart of validating herself and any women as a champion is putting the title on a legitimate card, title validation being something that everybody gives Strikeforce shit about in the first place. What better platform to voice her opinion so that she’s actually paid attention to then on the show itself?
And to another part of your point, should Anderson not get a chance to fight another main event because of his performance against Maia? Should Jake Sheilds not get another chance at being on a main card because he drove people away with the Henderson fight? She had a boring fight but so what, shit happens. She just had a highlight reel finsish that could have garnered even more attention if they had given her a chance to be on a show more people actually paid attention to and the more attention she gets the more attention Strikeforce does. You made your bias very clear in your comments for the Challenger’s Card so to get this story from you isn’t surprising. It’s a non issue that you obviously want to blow up for the sake of nothing.
Not trying to be the typical Snowden hater here, but it is what it is.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
by Fake Emcee on Jul 24, 2010 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 9 recs
Interesting Parallel...
Women’sMMA came out as a big loser last night. The fight was totally one sided and very uninteresting. It was clear in the first round thatHashiMaia had nothing to offerKaufmanSilva and the fact thatSarahAnderson didn’t ever go for the finish just meant that fans were left with no motivation to continue watching. This was supposed to be a high level fight between the top twofemalesfighters at135185 pounds and rather than feeling like high level MMA it felt like watching a sparring session.
Yes, I know these are Brent’s words, not Snowden’s, but I’m not trying to hate on anyone. Just thought this was interesting.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Jul 24, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 13 recs
Well said good sir.

People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
by The Blackula on Jul 24, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
The last time Anderson fought the consensus #2 was Dan Henderson. And he did get the finish. ;)
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
True, true.
I’m not saying there’s an exact parallel – I actually understand both sides of the argument well. I lean towards treating her like a champion since she is one, but I don’t feel like it’s as simple as that.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Jul 24, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
People also were leaving the building and changing the channel when Anderson Silva was dicking around during UFC 112. Should the UFC banish him to TUF finales?
by Steve4192 on Jul 24, 2010 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Seriously?
A lot of people think that should be what happened.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Seconded.
As petulant as it might seem, I’m on board with that.
Brock Lesnar on Nutrition: "What the f*** are 'vegetables'?"
by The MMA Noob on Jul 24, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll sign on to that one as well...
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 25, 2010 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Really sad how far weekend update has fallen.
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember when SNL was good?
If I didn’t still have VHS tapes, I probably wouldn’t.
Brock Lesnar on Nutrition: "What the f*** are 'vegetables'?"
by The MMA Noob on Jul 24, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
The world needs more Nat X.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Heh, I'd go for that.
At this point, I think NBC should just run reruns of past SNL seasons.
Brock Lesnar on Nutrition, circa 2009: "Vegetables? What the f*** are vegetables?"
by The MMA Noob on Jul 24, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
Even sadder? The fall of Dennis Miller.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Self induced
Monday Night Football
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
9/11 fucked Dennis Miller up.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Being pro Bush for eight years won’t help
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s what I’m saying, that’s what made him pro-Bush. We was all about the invasion of Iraq before it happened – if you have a better rubric for deciding that someone is a moron, let me know.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not always accurate, Howard Stern was a huge supporter of the war on terror and has since changed his view.
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Hitchens?
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Jul 24, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody’s perfect.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps there’s quite a bit of intelligence you don’t know that went into the invasion. Not to get into that sort of debate here, but before you write people off as morons for thinking it was a good idea, you should first understand that you don’t get all there is to know about a situation from Jon Stewart. There’s a reason we don’t hear about everything. While the public reason may not seem important enough to you, believe me when I tell you that the invasion was a damn good idea if we were going to have troops anywhere in that area, which is essential. In a war where there isn’t necessarily a consensus, there has to be a scapegoat, and thankfully Bush took that and any shot anyone wanted to give him.
by Steven Abbott on Jul 24, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yep...
This led to us being able to staff our uber-base in Saudi Arabia, which basically gave us defacto control of the peninsula.
Besides, Saddam was given fair warning – ultimately that was on him.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 25, 2010 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions
yea sure, WMDs, we get it
Perhaps there’s quite a bit of intelligence you don’t know that went into the invasion.
Like I said, just because it’s being reported doesn’t mean it’s all true. It’s fine if you don’t believe it or don’t know it all or any of it. But to call people morons on that basis alone, when they don’t even have the opportunity to obtain all the facts, is pretty sad. Again, I’m not trying to change minds about it and this certainly isn’t the forum, but I hate seeing people generalize others as stupid for that reason alone. War may not be fun and most should disagree with it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not the right answer sometimes.
by Steven Abbott on Jul 25, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
she's a champ
she deserves a promotion from the challenger’s series
by StillUnknown on Jul 24, 2010 2:21 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Ranked #1 in her division, Undefeated Champion making her 1st title defense
Does not belong playing second fiddle for your separate up and comers promotions
Strikeforce does more damage to their own brand by hiding one of their best fighters on these shows.
Why don’t they give her the Cyborg treatment and feed Kaufman .500 fighters from a weightclass under with only a months notice so she can pad her record with opponents who had no business fighting her in the first place.
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
BAH
Picture fail. I suck at life.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Mauro in the background
“Hey Sarah, smell my finger.”
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
by Fake Emcee on Jul 24, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Quadros
“Pull my finger Sarah!”
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
“Hey Sarah, pull my figner…with your VAGINA!”
Now that I look at it though it really does come off like they’re both sticking their thingies in her face.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
What the hell is a figner, I don't know.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
"You're"??
I’m shocked, Beer. Shocked and appalled.
by PlantingaFan on Jul 24, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
It’s the morning hangover-killer beers, methinks. And the fact that I don’t use the preview button enough.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Challenger Series is no place for a Champion, PERIOD.
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
by The Blackula on Jul 24, 2010 2:25 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
i dont know why shes complaining…i mean challenges or regular strikeforce, they are both televised on showtime so i dont see a big difference.
freedomwatchonfox.com lp.org
Number of viewers & promotional push.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Jul 24, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
the difference is the amount of promotion that goes into the cards
no other champion is relegated to the challenger series, why should she be any different?
by StillUnknown on Jul 24, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Because a main Strikeforce show is going to get much more promotion put behind it, and thus more viewers. With these Challengers Cards sometimes you gotta hope people just happen to come across it while channel surfing with how little they get pushed.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
I had no problem with anything she said.
Snowden is stirring the pot again.
When Josh Barnett pisses in a cup, magic comes out.
"what the f**k is the internet?"
Pain don't hurt...
Say it ain’t so, Snowden. You were my hero, but now you’re just a big poopmouth. You poopmouth, with poop out of your mouth.
Lemonade was a popular drink, and it still is. I get more stunts and props than Bruce Willis- Guru
I've never seen a worse case of name-calling.
NEVER!
by PlantingaFan on Jul 24, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
you have also never seen Anchorman either
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAjNQwM6kTo
the fun starts at 1:40
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
by The Blackula on Jul 24, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Sadly...
I have seen Anchorman probably twenty times. You know, when in Rome.
by PlantingaFan on Jul 24, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow buddy you are so banned for that, but it was worth it to see someone finally call him out for his blatent poopmouth.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
I don't have a problem with what she said
nor do I think Snowden is wrong in his real point. She hasn’t earned her way to a bigger card. The Challengers cards shouldn’t be looked at like some sort of shit card, they are your chance to shine on national TV and earn your way to the cards with the bigger draws.
All she has to do to get there is draw better.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
I think she earned her way there by winning the dagnab title. Who the fuck knew who any of those women are that get thrown into a title match with Cyborg or even Carano before her. Even Cyborg was pretty much unkown and she got on the main card, but after that she got a little exposure and suddenly everybody knew. Sarah already has the title, what more do you expect of her especially after what she did Friday night?
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
That title is meaningless
She is the best woman in a division nobody cares about. It sucks, but without Carano nobody would give a shit about the other title either. Hell, they mostly don’t anyway now that she is done fighting. Strikeforce has it’s handful with that headache, they don’t need another womans title fucking up their already iffy ratings.
When she starts being a good enough draw she’ll make it there, IF that ever happens. Look at the other people that make those cards. Are they better martial artists? Maybe not, but people are sure as hell more likely to turn in to watch them than her.
And really, Co-Maining a card on Strikeforce should be an honor to any fighter. It’s irritating to watch people shit on that. They gave her another chance to draw and she gave an amazing effort to that effect last night.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
Co-maining on a Challenger’s show doesn’t really mean jack shit to be honest, although it is more than nothing, and neither does main eventing even. All it means is that your slightly more known then the other unknowns. And honestly, outside of Gina what women even really does draw?
If Strikeforce didn’t want a cluster fuck then they shouldn’t have created a second women’s title.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
And honestly, outside of Gina what women even really does draw?
Which is why she is in Challengers shows
If Strikeforce didn’t want a cluster fuck then they shouldn’t have created a second women’s title.
They would LIKE them to draw and help the sport of WMMA. You guys have painted them into a position they can’t win. If they try to grow it smartly, slowly, you give them shit for not killing themselves by putting ratings death on their bigger cards. If they put them where they all think they deserve to be, they actually get the ratings death and WMMA dies on the vine.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
Very well said
It seems rather obvious, but somehow everyone keeps missing the real point…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 25, 2010 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions
^ This
Well put, this is pretty much how I feel too. It’s an utterly uninteresting division with a non-draw champion wearing a belt noone cares about, why should it be taking up spots and killing ratings on bigger cards? I certainly see where Snowden is coming from, at the same time I don’t fault Kaufman for saying what she did. But it didn’t sit too well with me either, taking it all into consideration she should be thankful where she’s at now.
by Horselover Fat on Jul 24, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
didn’t strikeforce execute champion’s clause on her without even informing her?
http://www.mmarocks.pl
https://twitter.com/mmarocks_pl
Nah
She renegotiated her contract last month.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, you're right
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll bite...
I think Snowden is right in his point in this sense: she has no real grounds for deserving to appear on a main card. Consequently, her actions will appear diva-ish to the powers-that-be at SF. That said, from her perspective, she has grounds: she’s undefeated, she’s a champ, etc. The real question is this: how savvy is she about how the business works? Can she see things from SF’s perspective or not? And if she can’t, is this a culpable failing on her part?
How can you say she has no grounds and agree with Snowden, and then look from her perspective of the reasons that she should be included which involved two completely legitimate facts that are more than enough themselves?
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Well, for what it's worth...
I was talking about prima facie versus ultima facie grounds. Something can appear to be a good reason for something but then you find out it’s outweighed or defeated by other factors. The point I was making is that, while it is often the case that being champ of something and being undefeated can give you prima facie grounds for appearing on a main card, when you’re the champ of an extremely weak division and have beaten mostly unimpressive foes, your championship status and your undefeated status turn out not to have much reason-giving force.
by PlantingaFan on Jul 24, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I take it back
The slam gives her real grounds.
by PlantingaFan on Jul 24, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
not to mention..
that female MMA hasn’t yet caught on with the casual fan
Shit, we all know Sarah is a great fighter, but Strikeforce out of the big two, is the only major promotion that’s showcasing female fighters.
If Sarah is not bringing the heat during any of her matches, then why the hell should Scott show any of her matches on CBS or Showtime?
Champion or not, if some of us here on BE can shit on Anderson Silva for having sloppy title defenses, why should Sarah get a pass for doing the same thing?
That’s a hell of a double standard people.
And furthermore, I agree with Jonathan, don’t bite the hand that feeds you. Strikeforce doesn’t “need” to show women MMA to be successful.
Pay your dues Sarah. Put on exciting matches. Keep people in their seats. Then and only then you can demand your terms.
by devious1 on Jul 24, 2010 2:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
What the shit man, “pay your dues” she’s the freaking champion on the division what more do you want? And btw Anderson while being criticized has at this point made it a regular occurence to dissapoint fans and is still main-eventing PPVs, Sarah had one fight and people are still holding it over her head despite having one of the greatest knockouts in women’s MMA after last night.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Ben Henderson is the WEC
Light heavyweight champion of the world. Do you think a lot of casual MMA fans knows who he is? No.
Do you think a lot of casual fans give a shit about women MMA fighters to begin with? Hell no.
If Sarah doesn’t consistently bring her A game to each and every fight that’s presented to her then you might as well put her belt around the waist of Kim Kardashian. Her belt won’t mean shit to the casual fan, or CBS for that matter when its time to promote another Strikeforce card.
Now in saying that, if Strikeforce can promote her based on clips of last nights fight…. More specifically the power bomb that she executed on her opponent, then she will get the casual fans in droves. Increasing her own profile, and that of Female MMA fighters as a whole.
by devious1 on Jul 24, 2010 4:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Lightweight
Not LHW.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. Thank for for the correction
by devious1 on Jul 24, 2010 5:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes. Thank you for the correction
by devious1 on Jul 24, 2010 5:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
She slammed a girl into unconciousness last night
I think she doing something that’s exciting. She’s “bringing the heat”. She defended her title against a very tough challenger (who’s also getting ZERO credit her – Roxy’s really good). She’s paid her dues. AND she’s talking herself up to try and drum up interest in herself and her division. I see nothing wrong with any of it.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
which she may not have been doing up until last night
Beer Monster I’m not saying Sarah by any means is a shitty fighter.
But proving to casual fans that fighters like herself, and Cyborg are just as good if not better then their male counterparts, is I think a harder sell to Joe. Couch Potato just tuning into CBS for the first time that wants to sere what MMA is all about.
Is it fair to put that type of pressure on female fighters? No of course not. But that’s why I think that fighters like her, Cyborg, Gina whoever have to bring that “fire” that “hunger” to every fight.
Not for the die hard fans like you and me
But for the casual fans just tuning into the sport for the first time.
by devious1 on Jul 24, 2010 5:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I absolutely agree that it might be harder to sell. That’s why a new division needs exposure. Letting her fight on a main card gives her that. They should have never created the division in the first place if they’re not going to market it properly. But they did, and now that have to stick with it, not treat it like a second-class division. It’s not necessarily about women – it’s about respect.
To be clear, I’m NOT saying that Sarah should be main eventing a main card, or should even be on CBS at this point. It’s too early for that. But winning that belt should have earned her the right to at least be given the opportunity that every other champion received – exposure on a main card. Her division is being singled out. I don’t agree with it.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
They definitely made a mistake by pushing a title into the weight class too soon, but that doesn’t mean they should compound that mistake by putting Kaufman on main cards or inserting her in main events.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
I respectfully disagree. Giving her a main card sport won’t be overly detrimental to a card, especially with an opponent like Coenen that will bring it too and has been on TV before. You can’t draw without exposure. Main cards are seen by many more people than Challengers cards. Giving her a shot doesn’t seem like a bad idea. As I said above, it’s not a main event fight. Cyborg didn’t main event either against Coenen or Finney. But she deserves the opportunity to be on an equal playing ground with Cyborg. If she fails, she fails. But the opportunity has been earned by winning and defending the title.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we’re going to fundamentally disagree because we have opposite opinions on the value of the 135 pound women’s title. The 145 pound title was created after a very long fleshing out process. Cris and Gina and three and four televised bouts leading up to their title bout.
Maybe it’s “unfair” that they had that level of exposure, but that’s the fight business. Good looking dudes, smooth talkers, etc. get ahead of higher quality fighters without those characteristics on the men’s side too.
If you agree that it’s a mistake for Strikeforce to have created the title when they did, I’m not sure how you can argue that they should be forced to push the division in situations which may be detrimental – or, at the very least, not profitable – for them.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
6 of the 7 were in a different organization and weren’t really fleshed out by Strikeforce…they just picked up the baton and ran with it, but I see your point there. And you’re right, we’re differing on what the title’s worth.
I just don’t see it as unprofitable. Pushing a non-drawing fight off the main card once to give an entire division the exposure it needs seems like a short term minor hit with potential long term gain. It’s a a deeper division than 145 women’s and I think it will eventually be more popular than 145. Sure, it takes some groundwork…but that’s the entire point of building a division. It can’t be done in the dark (or dim light at least – dim = Challengers).
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Lame
I loved her smack talk this week, I think it helped her position and got peoples attention. Her willingness to be confident, strong willed, defiant and in StrikeForce’s face in my opinion earned her some serious respect from other fighters and MMA fans in general.
She stepped it up and followed through with a dramatic finish, she’s earned mad props from me, that’s for sure.
Champion's on major cards
I’m sorry but the name says it all… Challengers. If they should do anything they should be using the Main Event of the Challengers card to promote some of their next in line. Kind of like Rossario.
She may not deserver to be the headliner of one of these Main Cards, but seriously a Championship belt as your co main event… once again Strikeforce is making their belts look meaningless.
Sarah was also right that the women’s 135 is way deeper then 145. I would much rather see a competitive fight then a one sided beat down (ala Cyborg)
All I will say is ...
Men do this all the time. After a big victory, they ask for a title fight, ko of the night, etc. So I can’t hate on a champ wanting some respect. Better than all the guys who say, “Where’s my belt!?”
█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z
Snowden goes at it again..
“Ranked #1 in her division, Undefeated Champion making her 1st title defense
Does not belong playing second fiddle for your separate up and comers promotions
Strikeforce does more damage to their own brand by hiding one of their best fighters on these shows.”
Blackula really said it best.. what more can I say?
Just because you’re “I say whatever the heck I want” type of guy and you have a position on a bloodyelbow ‘blog’ can you inject so much personal ‘feelings’ into a post..?
how is your post ANY different from the little comments us readers post.?
You can’t seem to find any valid point from an objective view.
Are you an MMA journalist or do you do this for a hobby/side gig?(no, I really would like to know, not meant to sound offensive)
If it’s not the latter, wow..
Snowden's comments
The character of his comments are probably a large part of the reason why his posts get so many eyeballs. They may seem unbecoming at times, but if they weren’t the way they were, I think people would care a lot less.
In a triumphant victory speech she managed not just to insult Strikeforce, among the first national promotions in the world to take a chance on women in the cage, but also every other fighter on the card.
“Get me on main cards on Showtime,” Kaufman said. “I think I deserve it. Put me on there.”
THAT’S an insult??? I’m pretty sure Snowden has heard much, much worse on these forums alone.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jul 24, 2010 2:56 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah I didn't see it...
What she said in the interview
“Hopefully this is my last challengers card.”
That was out of line…
Strip her of her title!!
The only way this is okay is if MMA is only about ratings
If MMA is at all about sport and competition putting her on the undercard of a challenger series card is beyond silly and spits in the face of making Strikeforce a legitimate sports entity. Clearly they seem to be okay with that, but they can’t live on as a illegitimate sport / spectacle driven organization forever.
Snowden, sometimes you are a major Negative Nancy.
For a promotion trying to struggle to stay relevant as well as actually continue to have a TV deal, it is very much about ratings.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Putting rating above sport flies is the face of everything that sport has ever been about.
If Strikeforce can’t promote MMA properly as a sport, then they are bad for the credibility of the sport. Strikeforce is the problem here. A champion being treated differently that every other champion and not liking it is not mind boggling.
Don't you mean this?

Brock Lesnar on Nutrition, circa 2009: "Vegetables? What the f*** are vegetables?"
by The MMA Noob on Jul 24, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Just last year Kaufman was plucked from obscurity by Strikeforce to fight on national television against Miesha Tate, filling in for Kim Couture at the last minute.
Gee, Strikeforce, than you so much for giving me a fight just because Randy Couture’s talentless ex-wife couldn’t make it! I mean, sure, I wasn’t your first choice – you’d rather go with a divorcee with a marquee name – but hey, at least you had to! Thanks!
Why is it, when fighters complain about their treatment from Strikeforce, they’re divas, but if UFC fighters do it, mocking their claims of injustice means you love Dana White?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 2:58 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
Shut up, you love Dana White
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey look, it's my time on the Internet!
“You love Dana White Subo!”

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
no homo
yes huh
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Another great part of that quote is the line after it -
it was a big jump from taking fights in Vernon, British Columbia
So she was “plucked from obscurity” (despite being the women’s bantamweight champion in Hardcore Fighting Championships, which was a fairly large Canadian promotion at the time), and it was a big jump from Vernon to the big time. That’s peachy except for the fact that she fought in Vernon in the 2nd fight of her career. Her last fight before she got a Strikeforce contract was in Palace Fighting Championships, a well-known and respected organization. She fought 6 times between the Vernon fight and the first SF fight.
Would anyone say that Jon Jones was plucked from obscurity because he fought in Ledyard, Connecticut once? Come on. It’s a clear distortion to make her look bad for some reason. It’s becoming a trend.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I would say that Jon Jones was plucked from obscurity when he debuted in the UFC. Dude was a significant dog against Gusmao and Bonnar.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Guess you hid the other one
That’s not what I was arguing. I was saying that he’s distorting facts to make his point. Sarah didn’t go from Vernon straight to the fight with Tate like he’s presenting it. Nor did Jones go straight from Ledyard to the UFC. He fought multiple times before he got there. It’s presenting Sarah as a girl that came from some backwater town and got plunked into the big time that annoys me. It’s a clear distortion and misrepresentation.
And Jones was only +135 against Bonnar.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I hide stuff when I make typos. No comment editor, my ass.
You could actually find Jones at +162. Are you using a specific site or BFO or what? Using their best available lines, it’s fair to say he was about a 60/40 dog, which is significant.
I think you’re getting into a bit of semantics with the Vernon thing. The point is that she was toiling away fighting nobodies in Canada until Strikeforce gave her the call (brief sojourn in PFC, yada yada). Jon obviously uses inflammatory language to make his point, but the point is still valid.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Was referring to BFO, yes.
It might be semantics, but the facts as he’s portraying them don’t ring true when examined, that’s my point. It’s emphasizing a perceived negative on Kaufman for no real reason I can understand, except to inflame. If she was plucked from relative obscurity, okay. But she sure as shit wasn’t plucked from Vernon.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
When you’re arguing that a fighter is well known because they were a HCF champ, you might be stretching your argument a little thin.
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 24, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Did I use the words “well known”? You’re the one that intentionally misled, not me.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 25, 2010 4:24 AM EDT up reply actions
No one was intentionally misled. You are suggesting she wasn’t plucked from obscurity to appear on national television. She was.
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 25, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
The fact that she's the fucking champion doesn't matter to you?
And I know, she’s a woman so it’s not like she’s a real champion but if Strikeforce wants to give out belts they need to be ready to treat the carriers of those belts like champions.
Here is the deal.
MMA is a growing sport. Everything is about buyrates and ratings. If you don’t bring in either then it doesn’t matter how good you are. MMA is not established enough to put on whoever they want. So they have to use the guys and girls that pull ratings in order to attract people to the product.
As much as everyone wants to act like this is a sport, a lot of people don’t consider it to be that way and even for all the people that do this is still just a niche thing. Being on ESPN doesn’t equal having “made it”.
MMA, at least for right now and the near future, IS about ratings. That’s all there is to it.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
by Geno Mrosko on Jul 24, 2010 3:02 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yes but those people also need to be promoted in order for people to pay attention to how exciting they may be. Imagine if after Copperfield made the statue of Liberty fake disapear, and then when everybody stopped paying attention a real sorcerer came along and actually made the thing vanish for real. Honeslty, the fact that people are still trying to argue about her being boring after she made a crater in the center of the floor the size of Roxy’s head is beyond me.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Wow
This kind of thought process is the reason Womens MMA will never get off the ground.
The Champion, in the biggest promotion that has a Womens title, shouldn’t be on their main cards because she isn’t a draw….
Why isn’t she a draw?
Because she has no exposure!
Again, the Anderson Silva or Jake Shields parallels blablabla
Strange article Jonathan…
I apologize for my never-ending assault on the English Language. I feel like Qui the promoter from Jade Empire...
well that and her last fight was utterly painful to watch
did you watch Kaufman’s last fight all the way through? it was torture. it had me praying Pat Miletich would return to the cage it was so bad.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Sean Sherk still defended on the main card of PPV and he isn’t very entertaining. Jon Fitch still hits the co-main event on cards or very near the top and his only semi-recent exciting fight was him getting ravaged for the entire GSP fight. They aren’t draws, but to serve the legitimacy of the sport they are on the main card of main PPV. If they want to push women’s MMA as a true part of the sport they shouldn’t put the best on 2nd tier cards. Even if she wasn’t headlining, having her on a major card would lend to her’s and their promotional credibility; not to mention giving her more visibility, which is exactly what the women’s portion of the sport needs.
by Steven Abbott on Jul 25, 2010 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly and yet he was there. That’s what legitimate orgs do with their champions. If it doesn’t matter, don’t make it a title. Just have the fights and say these women are really good, but they don’t matter much.
by Steven Abbott on Jul 25, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Tim Sylvia main evented in title fights three times over fights that were more hyped than his- Tito Ortiz vs Forrest Griffin, Tito vs Ken Shamrock 2, and the first Frank Mir vs Brock Lesnar fight.
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Yes, in name only. The other fights were the real main event. They were thrown on the card with the heavyweight champ because he couldn’t draw. Just like Kaufman wasn’t at the top of the card-because she couldn’t draw.
I won’t argue that she shouldn’t have been at the top of that card. But after her last showing you should be able to understand why they made that call.
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 25, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
The point is that her title fight was on the equivalent of a UFN, whereas Silvia wasn’t. Title fights belong on your biggest stage, even if they aren’t the main draw. If you are trying to add legitimacy to your fights by saying it’s a title fight, then you should treat it that way. And for her to say that after her fight is perfectly fair.
by Steven Abbott on Jul 26, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
It would have seemed less diva-ish if,
she said something to the effect of, “All women’s MMA champions deserve to be on the main strikeforce card” or “this match deserves to be on a strikeforce card” Instead, she states that SHE deserves to be there, making the issue about herself.
“this match deserves to be on a Showtime card”
by Goat choker 1 on Jul 24, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude
There’s 2 Strikeforce women’s champions. One’s on the main card. The other is her. There’s no basis of comparison for her to use.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
How much does anyone want to bet
That Gina Carano’s next fight (if there is one) isn’t on a Challengers card?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
No one wants to bet that.
She is one of their best draws. It’s good business to make sure people see her.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
BECAUSE SHE IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST DRAWS THAT STRIKEFORCE HAS!
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
If they hired the guy that did the Fort Hood shooting, he’d be their biggest draw.
Doesn’t mean other, actual fighters should be screwed out of his spot.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
If you constantly put on fighters
who are really good but don’t draw well and don’t bring in ratings then eventually your company will fold.
Worth it then?
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
I’ve never seen an MMA company try that. I’d support them.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
There aren't enough people like you.
If people are watching then it doesn’t matter who is good. Ideally, you put good fighters on cards with proven draws in the hopes that they get some sort of rub and become draws on the strength of their performance. Sadly, this doesn’t usually happen.
I’m telling you, it’s time to send MMA fighters to pro wrestling school so they can learn how to cut a promo.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Well, you could always build your own draws too. Takes time and money, but it’s definitely doable.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
That's what I meant by putting them on cards with proven draws.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Gina is one of the most recognizable fighters on the roster with only one recent loss. She deserves that spot. sorry…Just like Lesnar deserved to remain on the main card after Mir submitted him. Big draw + talent
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL at asking for a perfectly crafted response after someone just got done getting punched in the face for 13 minutes. I thought she did pretty well all things considered.
Judging by her pre-fight comments, it seems like she though about what she’s going to say before her match.
by Goat choker 1 on Jul 24, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
she thought
its still too early in the morning for me to be typing (Hawaii time)
by Goat choker 1 on Jul 24, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
GTFO of here with this diva nonsene
- Ranked Undefeated Champion making her first title defense = being put on a major card.
And seeing as both her and Cyborg are fighting 135 pounders she get put ahead in the female p4p rankings
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
Hey guys!
What’s going on in h—
oh.
(backs out)
by Chris Nelson on Jul 24, 2010 3:14 PM EDT reply actions 11 recs
Coward
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
com’ere seriously? Scorpion all of a sudden sounds like Larry the cable guy. Get over here. Drop the excuses pick up a purpose, god damn blasphemy.
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Get out of this discussion and find me more info on King of the Door 2
"Ten more seconds is all I ever ask. That's the good thing I learned about being KO'd twice. You don't see it coming -it's like death- you don't plan for it so don't wait for it. So many people are afraid of getting Ko'd that their hands stay home, but not me. I got to go out there and shoot the lights out and fall down" Jens Pulver
step into my office.
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s amazing how crazy everyone gets about shiny gold belts.
I don’t remember much of an outcry about this fight’s placement before Kaufman slammed Roxy into an unconcscious state. Outside of Sarah herself, anyway.
If Sarah Kaufman didn’t have a title belt, no one would give a shit about her being the co-main on a Challengers card. Put a piece of gold around her waist and suddenly it’s a Big Deal.
I don’t always agree with Jon, but he’s dead on here, if a bit hyperbolic. At the very least, you have to understand Strikeforce’s decision here. She headlined the last Challengers show she appeared on and people CLEARED THE BUILDING.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jul 24, 2010 3:29 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
She does have a belt though.
Conveniently ignoring that to make a point doesn’t make for a solid analysis. She won the belt, it’s not like it was awarded to her.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
who gives a shit about that belt?
they made it up basically just for her. the WAMMA title has much more meaning that the Strikeforce women’s 135lb title.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
In fairness
It’s as relevant as the rest of Strikeforce’s belts.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Blackout612 on Jul 24, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
So not relevant at all?
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by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
You said it, not me!
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Blackout612 on Jul 24, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly…if they are pushing her as a legitimate champion, they should treat her as such. By relegating her to a lesser card, they are denigrating their own belt.
by Steven Abbott on Jul 25, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
They made up the belt for her? They weren’t even counting on her winning the thing! It’s a a belt. You promote 6 divisions, you treat them equally. What’s wrong with that?
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 25, 2010 4:26 AM EDT up reply actions
What’s wrong with that? A billion things. Does Zuffa treat the 135 pound title the same way they treat the 205 pound title?
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 25, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
They’re different organizations on different networks. Completely different.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 25, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Zuffa-owned WEC certainly treats the 135 division the same as Zuffa-owned UFC treats their 205 division. So while that wasn’t the answer you wanted trying to say it’s a lesser division, it’s the true answer.
by Steven Abbott on Jul 25, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess we're too used to the UFC, where belts mean something
That being said, I get why they did it. But I also get why Kaufman would be pissed about it.
Sure, she does have a right to be pissed.
But trashing the event after she could’ve taken the high road wasn’t a smart move.
Brock Lesnar on Nutrition, circa 2009: "Vegetables? What the f*** are vegetables?"
by The MMA Noob on Jul 24, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Did she really trash the event?
She said her piece on deserving as one of their champions to be on a higher profile card.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Everyone knows Challengers shows are the b-show
People who watch it know what they’re getting. It’s not like anyone watching immediately thought “She’s right, why am I watching this shit?” and changed the channel.
Also, according to the logic of some people in the comments, if Kaufman fought on the Fedor vs. Werdum card, she should have been the main event.
Wat?
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Yeah
you’re pretty much missing the point completely here buddy, it’s because she has that belt that the whole thing is an issue. If she wasn’t the champoin there is no outrage, she is the champion so people feel she should be held to a higher standard by default.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
She’s the champion of a division that no one cares about. However unfortunate that fact may be, it’s the reality.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jul 24, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Yeah but people like to pretend we live in a fair and just world here, let us have this if only just for a moment.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
So she’s a whiny diva? Right.
Not everyone is saying she should get what she wants, but she has every right to say it. She shouldn’t have an article dedicated to her being a whiny diva because she wants to be more successful. What a jerk! Come on.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Blackout612 on Jul 24, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’m not saying that? The biggest thing I’ve been countering is the idea that this fight with Roxy as the co-main of a Challengers show was wrong. It wasn’t. And no one was complaining before the fight.
I also don’t think it’s some moral travesty if SF were to have her headline another Challengers show. Whether you like it or not, people don’t care about the 135 pound women’s division right now.
Sarah has every right to voice her displeasure.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
That's all I've been saying
As well as a lot of commenters. There’s nothing rude or ungrateful about her desire to be featured on a major televised broadcast. Seems pretty pedestrian a thing to voice displeasure over, when women’s MMA— as unpopular as it is— could use a morality boost from the media to perpetuate interest after such a great moment as her powerbomb was. How often will they have something like that to motivate interest? Instead, we’re hear reading about how she’s selfish and ungrateful and how she doesn’t deserve to be on TV.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Blackout612 on Jul 24, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Many people don’t care about the UFC 185 lb division right now because AS ‘cleaned it out,’ but that doesn’t mean he won’t headline or be the co-main on a PPV card…
by Steven Abbott on Jul 25, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, you’re right. No one cares about the UFC 185 pound division. It’s a perfect comparison to the women’s 135 pound division.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 25, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
His statement seemed to be likening people not caring about the women’s 135 division as compared to their other divisions. My response is saying most would prefer to see a different title fight other than the UFC 185. The same could likely be said for the women’s 135 division. The UFC still pushes it as a legit division, whereas Strikeforce says they are promoting but sets their championship fights to the side. It’s an indirect comparison, but the meaning of it still holds.
by Steven Abbott on Jul 25, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Strikeforce created the division, therefor that is their problem.
All she has done is win and ask to be treated like everyone else. Why does that deserve name calling.
Perhaps there shouldn’t be belts in the female divisions until there is more competition and the level of talent is higher. This wouldn’t be a problem if Strikeforce just put on solid female fights without titles on the line.
There is a lot more talent at W135 then there is at W145 or M205.
HTML5 + WebM now! Death to Flash!!!
I hope to god you specifically mean SF’s M205.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Just to clarify my stance.
1) Yesterday Kaufman was in the EXACT spot she should have been in. Last time she main evented a challengers show it was a disaster, so you put her below the main event so people (hopefully) don’t tune out and (hopefully) the fight is good enough that it turns her into someone you can promote.
2) As of today I think you can put her right on a “main” card (if you have the room) BECAUSE she now is somewhat promotable. But I’d also not have a problem with her main eventing a challengers card again.
3) The problem is that she is a champion at all. Strikeforce rushed into crowning a champion in a division that wasn’t developed. Now she is fighting people no one knows. This isn’t Gina who got over on her looks, or Cyborg who got over on beasting Gina. This is Sarah Kaufman who has been fighting people no one knows and has not been able to establish a name because of it. Now Strikeforce is running a tournament and creating a division which all should have been done FIRST so that these fights made sense.
4) I have no problem with Sarah. I just think there was a massive overreaction to her being “mistreated” by being put on a challengers card.
5) Yes, ratings matter. …a lot.
6) did you guys want to see her left on the shelf for a few more months? The Houston show isn’t going to have an open spot for a women’s 5 round fight. The Fedor/Werdum card didn’t have room for it either. They’re not exactly swimming in shows to put all these fights on. The women’s 135 title is probably the least prestigious one they have, so sorry…it gets the bad spot.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:38 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I totally agree with you about #3
The female divisions are the shallowest in Strikeforce and that’s really saying something.
Isn’t a big part of the problem the fact that Stikeforce really isn’t committed to female MMA to the degree you need to be to develop a single division, let alone two? I mean, they average less than a single womens fight per card.
Developing divisions (and fighters) isn't something Strikeforce does well
The fact that the female divisions have to practically be built from the ground up makes them that much harder. It’s hard to put on too many female fights when there aren’t too many known female fighters and you have to balance sport and ratings.
They’re trying with the upcoming tournament though, which is a perfect use of the Challengers show, BTW.
I think the overreaction has a lot to do with how Snowden portrayed her. As a diva who’s not good enough and was “plucked from obscurity” and should stop complaining, despite the fact that every other fighter in her place would and has tried to promote herself and talk up a potential higher spot in the company. If he had made his points more concretely and less abrasively, it wouldn’t have ended up like this. He seemingly did it like that SO it would end up like this. Along with his comments last night about her and Roxy, it comes off as pretty weak.
You make solid points, and I agree with most of them. We’ll see what the ratings look like for last night and go from there. But no matter how she became a champion, she should be promoted like one.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I honestly think if the UFC brought the WEC into the fold we’d see a brian bowles defending his title on a fight night. More weight classes = more spots that have to get filled = less room for your less popular champions to be in pimp spots.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, at least he'll be headlining.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Again...
previous performance dictated that she should go in the co-main spot (it’s actually smart as people tend to sit through a bad co-main to get to a main while they’ll just turn off the last fight if it’s bad). Then she put on a really good performance and now you make your changes going forward.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Jesus...remove head from ass...Dominick Cruz
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Which is why the UFC won't promote 7 divisions under their banner anytime soon.
And it probably is Strikeforce’s mistake to be promoting 6 without the space on shows for them. But if you’re going to treat one differently than the other 5, how do you expect it to grow? It’s not a draw because it’s not being presented as one. It’s the chicken and egg argument. It can be argued endlessly from both sides. My point was that you need to treat all your belts with the same respect. Obviously some are bigger draws than others, but that doesn’t mean Sarah Kaufman deserves to toil in obscurity.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
They're making steps...
she’s defending the title, they’re holding a tournament to crown a big time challenger and put on the first thing close to a money fight in the division.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 24, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Cool. So put that fight where it belongs, on a main SF card. That’s all I’m sayin.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 25, 2010 4:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Why is that better? There aren’t that many more viewers and she’ll get more attention at the top of a Challengers card than opening a SF card that is only different because it comes on two hours earlier.
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 25, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I totally get Snowden and his motives for driving comments, but honestly sometimes it just comes off as too cheap especially if you are trying to maintain some from of credibility. I here what the staff is saying about liking the traffic, but stuff like this while beneficial at the moment can really come back to bite you in the future and I don’t want to see BE go out like WCW or like Strikeforce potentially in the near future.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Snowden honestly believes this stuff
he’s opinionated. he’s always been like this.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Seconded. I know Jon pretty well, having spent plenty of time with him off the internet, and he’s not writing this to cause a ruckus. If he says something, it’s what he believes.
Heavy.com -- Lead Staff Writer
Houston Chronicle's Brawl Sports
3) The problem is that she is a champion at all. Strikeforce rushed into crowning a champion in a division that wasn’t developed. Now she is fighting people no one knows. This isn’t Gina who got over on her looks, or Cyborg who got over on beasting Gina. This is Sarah Kaufman who has been fighting people no one knows and has not been able to establish a name because of it. Now Strikeforce is running a tournament and creating a division which all should have been done FIRST so that these fights made sense.
Absolutely agree with this statement. However, Strikeforce should be giving this weight division the same support that they show the others. By putting a championship fight on a poorly promoted Challengers show, aren’t they, in effect saying that this weight division/champion doesn’t matter?
Gals Guide to MMA
It’s a division that has exactly two title fights in its history. One of which was a snoozer which drove the crowd out of the arena. It doesn’t really hold much weight.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
I’ll be curious to see if the August Welterweight tournament does anything to drum up support for this division.
Gals Guide to MMA
I’m sure it will help. The question is how much.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Perhaps you should have written this article.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
Snowden's articles lower the quality of the site to gain viewers
Strikeforce valuing freakshow fights over its low drawing champions lowers its legitimacy.. in exchange for viewers.
It may come as a shock to some people
But Strikeforce is looking to make money. More viewers translates to more money. It’s great to have you’re principles, but you can’t eat them, you can live in them and you can’t wear them.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
I hope this isn’t taken as writer bashing, but every time I’m reading a Snowden article without knowing he actually wrote it beforehand, why do I only get about half a paragraph in before I go, “wait, who wrote this?” And there you are. You just go too extreme and reach way too much for my tastes.
'Ello G'vnor!
If you don't like Snowden writing
then don’t post on his threads.
When Josh Barnett pisses in a cup, magic comes out.
"what the f**k is the internet?"
Pain don't hurt...
Articles. I’ve seen Snowden react to criticism — he deals very well with it, so I don’t think he needs a bodyguard.
'Ello G'vnor!
by IHateMMA on Jul 24, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
That’s a crappy rule and I don’t think Snowden would agree.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
exactly
When Josh Barnett pisses in a cup, magic comes out.
"what the f**k is the internet?"
Pain don't hurt...
Also,
I have been an avid reader of this site for years (more than 5 visits a day on average I would say). I must say it is becoming increasingly irritating to read articles like this. I frequently feel trolled. I feel Snowden writes these types of articles to bait the readers into a heated discussion. I no longer feel good about coming to this site. I feel Snowden is disrespectful to the athletes of our sport. I apologize for the writer bashing. I know how I feel doesn’t matter. I just had to say it.
by Jitsoo on Jul 24, 2010 3:48 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think calling Kaufman a diva is a bit below-the-belt, and I certainly understand where she’s coming from, being one of the promotion’s champions and all.
I do wonder, though, what the response would be if, say, Dominick Cruz publicly complained about being put on the WEC shows on Versus rather than the UFC-promoted PPVs. Would everyone back him on that?
When they start holding an equal amount of WEC shows on Versus and PPV
Then we can talk about that comparison.
You’re right, it’s not a perfect comparison. Basically I’m wondering to what extent people are happy to pile on here because criticizing Strikeforce is the thing to do these days.
Criticizing Strikeforce has been the thing to do for a solid year now.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
People have been saying SF is failing and will be gone any day for atleast a year now. It is like a mosquito buzzing by your ear. Damn annoying and hard to make go away.
HTML5 + WebM now! Death to Flash!!!
BZZZZZZZ
Signing Fedor was a terrible idea and they’ve been run like shit since. This is what happens when a promotion that’s not ready for primetime wilts under the limelight.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
nick diaz has "mega wattage star power"?
not trying to pick anything apart, just a bit surprised to read that. is he really that good of a draw for them?
i have no numbers to back this up
But I’m under the impression that he’s one of their top draws. Top ten, at the very least.
“Mega wattage star power” much like a lot else in this article is an exaggeration, also keep in mind Snowden has revealed himself to be a Diaz homer in the past. He’s defenitiely a draw of some sort, but I don’t think there’s all that many people that go out of their way to catch a Nick Diaz fight, certanly not on a “mega wattage” level.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Tomas Rios of Sherdog:
I don’t enjoy women’s MMA as much as men’s MMA, but I think it has a real chance to win me over. Sad to see some favor sexism over vision
Some MMA media just don’t take what they do seriously. I’m opinionated as all hell, but I don’t invent shit to further my opinions
In reference to this very article.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
From his twitter
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Just seen it.
He also said this to Emma May
@m4quinon Snowden has repeatedly distinguished himself for his ability to construct BS narratives. No idea what he’s doing at Bloody Elbow.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Wow
That’s bold
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Funny coming from the guy whose articles you can barely read without a faux hipster-to-english dictionary.
by smoogy2 on Jul 24, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Is that the guy that writes all the previews for the major events?
"Ten more seconds is all I ever ask. That's the good thing I learned about being KO'd twice. You don't see it coming -it's like death- you don't plan for it so don't wait for it. So many people are afraid of getting Ko'd that their hands stay home, but not me. I got to go out there and shoot the lights out and fall down" Jens Pulver
To be fair
Rios is a bit of a tool
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
I was trying to be nice =p
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by VegasBatman on Jul 24, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Rios' stuff
but he regularly bashes fighters way beyond anything we would put up with around here.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Do you have no objection to one of your staff writers calling
Kaufman and Roxy ugly broads with cornrows?
by truck on Jul 24, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Only if you really believe what you’re saying. Then it’s just opinion and not bashing
by Steven Abbott on Jul 25, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Can they ban people on other sites?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not 100% sure that I agree in hard and fast rules like “all title fights should be on real showtime cards” or main events or whatever. But I have no problem with Kaufman saying she wants to be on the bigger cards. If Strikeforce is going to use the belt to keep her under contract, she has the right to try to use the belt to increase her bank account in other ways.
by Phildo on Jul 24, 2010 4:16 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Dear God
People need to start realizing this is a business and SF isn’t going to put Sarah Kaufmann on a main card unless they think it makes them money. All your self righteous babble about how she deserves it and SF has a moral obligation is just plain asinine. Get over it. When she becomes marketable they give her a spot, but until then why the hell would they lose a bunch of money just to meet the ethical arguments of some annoyed hardcore fans who probably make up only 10%-20% of their viewership and will still keep watching them despite their reservation and outcries. Jesus maybe people should be required to take a business 101 class before they spout off.
by ImmortalTechnique92 on Jul 24, 2010 4:34 PM EDT reply actions
I love this!
This guy is so wildly and consistently off base. If you hired me to troll BE I couldn’t do much better.
It is a little sad
When I can read the first paragraph or two of a post and tell that it’s Snowden. Before you say step up big talker I am not a writer and don’t purport to be one. At the beginning I agreed with Sonnen, but since then he has moved so far off base it’s getting to seem he is Chael Sonnen’ing this website.
by ImmortalTechnique92 on Jul 25, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
errrr
meant to say snowden right there instead of Sonnen. Freudian slip?
by ImmortalTechnique92 on Jul 25, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
they basically promoted her and the 135 tourny to FACE HER the entire night...she needs to be happy strikeforce has challenger series, since the roster has a lot of men looking to fight that WILL sell tickets
before the powerbomb she was tied in a fight that wasnt overly exciting
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
it was pointless to ask for the main event card because that is next...once the tourny is over that fight WILL be a main card fight at a main event
but can she fit on a card with ALL those names who need fights in oct/nov? (there are a LOT)…no…not without THIS challengers fight that gave her and the 135 women’s division a huge boost
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
After just one defense, Kaufman is being treated like she is some kind of superstar champion who is beneath anything but the highest bookings Showtime has to offer. I had no idea people around here are so reverent to the Strikeforce Championship.
Okay
What if it was one of the M-1 fighters in the same situation. Would you have the same opinion?
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
OK
How about if a guy won on the M-1 Challenge event, and then said he’d like to be on the next co-promoted card with Strikeforce? Is that guy trying to do what’s best for himself or being a whiny little divo?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
There we go
Worded much better than I wanted to. I’m a visual thinker.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
You do think in gifs…
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Jul 24, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Something like that lol
I zone out and see random made up scenes when I’m listening to music.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
That would be a totally different set of circumstances, and the premise behind your question is flawed. Kaufman can think she is “trying to do what’s best for herself” and also be a diva about it. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
If Kaufman is speaking euphemistically and what she is really saying is “PAY ME like I’m a regular on the main cards”, then that is one thing. But she already has a nice niche being a co-main on the Challengers cards. She is where she ought to be in the pecking order. So considering she wouldn’t be anywhere without Showtime, I don’t find it unreasonable to describe her attitude as ungrateful or diva-like. She can ask for all the superstar treatment she wants, I just don’t agree with it.
(crickets)
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 24, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Picked a org outside of the UFC and SF
Could have gone with DREAM. M-1 was easier to type. 
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
DREAM only runs one series of events. M-1 doesn’t have individual titles. Whatever analogy you were trying to make, it doesn’t work. DREAM and M-1 have nothing to do with this.
This is true
Wasn’t thought out, and I’m not too proud to admit it.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Hahaha.
Suddenly everyone cares about the Strikeforce championships.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
I'm not sure I understand this
IIRC, people were complaining about SF devaluing their belts. They were complaining because they didn’t like Coker devaluing the belt. I take it that they didn’t want Coker to devalue the belt because they valued the belt.
Am I remembering things incorrectly? (Serious question, not sarcastic.)
by PlantingaFan on Jul 24, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
From everything I've read on here
it’s always been stated by many, not all, that no one gives a shit about the Strikeforce belts including Coker. That’s why I don’t get it that everyone is making a big fuss about this title.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
That’s not how I’ve seen people’s views on their belts at all. People complaining about Rogers getting a title shot coming off a loss, them taking forever to bring Overeem back, how they treated Shields, etc. All based on how SF is devaluing their belts and it’s stupid.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 24, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair, I’ve been making this argument for over a year.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Another masterpiece. So what I’ve taken from the last two days is that not only are mma fans generally racist for failing to appreciate the great Anderson Silva, but evidently women need to know their role and keep their mouths shut. So to kind of link these, since Anderson Silva doesn’t draw (which was argued quite rigorously yesterday) then he should be in the co-main event of the next fight night. And if he complains about it, then he must be a diva too.
Strikeforce can't win either way with hardcore fans.
One week the bloodyelbow comments are riddled with people saying Strikeforce belts don’t mean anything, and the next week those same people will defend a SF beltholder to the death.
One week they laugh at their ratings, the next they’ll suggest they promote a fighter who cleared the stands to a main card slot on showtime.
Time to weigh in
First off, I have no problem with Kaufman calling Strikeforce out, Sure she’s acting like a diva, but she’s also trying to game them for the best spot possible, Nothing wrong with a fighter looking out for their best interest, even when they’re wrong. Nothing personal, it’s business.
Secondly, Snowden is right, Kaufman is fortunate for the spot she got. People seem to forget that Strikeforce is working with the narrowest margins, and need to keep the people who pay them – Showtime – happy. And what makes them happy? Ratings. The last show Sarah headlines is the lowest rated Showtime show this year by far. While putting a non-title fight on as the headline may be insulting, it also probably guaranteed a mucher bigger audience. One that will have seen Sarah with a dramatic finish and be willing to tune into her as a headliner on the next show or onto a bigger show. What would the alternative be? Put Sarah as a headliner, have the ratings crater and then watch Showtime want to keep all female fighters not named Cyborg and Carano off their channel?
by nottheface on Jul 24, 2010 5:53 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Carano is doing a fairly good job keeping herself off every channel.
You don't like wrestling in MMA? Go watch K-1.
Coming soon to a movie theater near you!
by Horselover Fat on Jul 25, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Whether or not she does get onto main cards, she sure has hell has reason to ask for it now. She’s undefeated, holds the title and just gave the promotion a clear-as-day KO of the night. What more should she have done, write a damn bestseller while she was at it?
The ratings flop against Hashi is at least partly due to the promotion she has received. Let’s face it, it’s not just her who’s getting little or no interest from fans – that’s the problem with just about every female fighter. The audience do not know them, therefore they don’t care.
You don't like wrestling in MMA? Go watch K-1.
Silly Waste of Writing
My Goodness, this is a silly piece of writing. How is that Snowden feels such justification and righteous indignation over her victory speech when it is a dime a dozen speech and, even moreso, expected if a fighter wants to be noticed and plead his/her case for a higher profile. It appears to me that Snowden feels she should stop talking, be thankful and get back to training barefoot in the kitchen.
Just when you think the writing cannot get any sillier.
by Dean Head on Jul 24, 2010 6:28 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
.....
Put Kaufman on bigger Strikeforce events but don’t ever make her co-main or main event because it’s borderline suicidal. Kaufman could be the first or second fight on the broadcast so she doesn’t clear the place out like the last time she headlined a show.
She doesn’t draw and that’s plain and simple. If she wants to be on a bigger card then I’m fine with it, just not as a main or co-main.
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
Snowden
Another horrendous article, this time with blatant misogyny. I was totally expecting “Kaufman should be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen” as the closing line of this article.
(looks above)
Damn……….I’m thankful I had a wedding to attend.
Hit me again Tube Sock!
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 7:52 PM EDT reply actions
Isn't it funny
That an article like this will receive 400+ comments but the Don Frye/Ken Shamrock article will receive 100 tops? Not saying anything bad. I see both sides of the coin on this and see where everybody is coming from. It’s also funny how Kaufman isn’t important enough to be on a main SF card but an article about her ranting will draw so many comments. She’s probably sitting back grinning right about now thinking if nothing else she’s raised her stock on the interwebz. If she even reads this site that is.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
Come on dude. The abundance of comments has nothing to with Sarah Kaufman being the subject of the article and everything to do with Jonathan Snowden being the author of the article.
Hit me again Tube Sock!
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
My point
Exactly.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
by dedstrk316 on Jul 24, 2010 9:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Can we get off the sexist comment
Calling someone a diva isn’t sexist. If Snowden called her a “broad” or “dame” then yes, he’d be sexist, but she’s acting like a diva, just like Erin Toughill, who by all accounts from many people who work within MMA is a DIVA.
You broads need to calm down is what I’m saying.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
I’m for the ugly broad with cornrows.
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 23, 2010 9:40 PM PDT
From the live results post.
'Ello G'vnor!
Eh...they're both ugly broads
I see nothing wrong. I also use the term broad in normal conversation as do my female friends.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
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by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t think it was sexist, it’s just that I had noticed it while reading through and thought it was funny that you brought it up.
'Ello G'vnor!
My point stands that they are both ugly broads.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm being drunk and saying that people are idiots thinking the term DIVA is sexist
And that his comment was taking a side of neutrality.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know about you friend
but I’d definitely throw something Kaufman’s way, but that’s just me
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Something about a chick that I know can break my jaw with a punch...
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Son, I'm 2 Four Lokos deep
Kaufman is deec but ain’t no Tate.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
This dude gets it
Tate is a well built broad.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I would pay good money to put my brand on that ass.
I'm a lover not a fighter
by spectaa on Jul 24, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You don't even know man...you don't even know
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
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by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Master of the Thread Takeover right here

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Watermelon
I’m getting weird tonight. I’m gonna go to the bottle service club I think.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
hmmm
have you tried the new lemonade “version?”
i remember when i couldn’t even finish one…now, i can kill 3 w/ease. sad is my liver
"she told me she was on the pill." me
I dunno where you live but they still are 12% in Jersey
Lemonade feels like it’s rotting my teeth. Watermelon goes down like water.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
lmao! ther’s nothing like feeling your teeth rot! I’m in Dallas and they’re 12% here too.
"she told me she was on the pill." me
I'm moving to Austin
If they pussafied this shit Imma kill someone. Though I’m stoked to start drinking Shiner Bock on the reg.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
can't speak for Austin
but I think you’ll be ok, although you’re prolly gonna have to rely on Sparxx. I’m down there once a month for work and have yet to see a LOKO.
"she told me she was on the pill." me
Dammit
ATX is okay by me. 3 hour ride to dallas right?
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
yup
w/out traffic you can prolly get here a bit earlier, but that’s about the norm. you comin here for workage or pleasure?
"she told me she was on the pill." me
Moving for a change of pace
To join the ATX police force in a year (residency needed) and the fact that I’m a cowboys fan is awesome.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
nice
we have a few good gyms up in Dallas to train, not sure how legit the gyms are in Austin, never really checked it out, but you’ll like it in TX. I’m from Connecticut so i feel ya re:moving from Northeast to the closest thing from Africa hot. bottom line, the chicks here are f’in fantastic and cowboys stadium is ummmm, epic
"she told me she was on the pill." me
the machados have a gym in austin
i believe and roger huerta and quite a few others train in town somewhere
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
What do you think of the Barton Springs area?
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
it's gorgeous a little crowded
good place to live when you first move to town
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I head out on tuesday
Looking at Barton Springs and Zoiler Park. Maybe east Austin on 6th to Waller.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't realize...
they were forcing residency on people applying now. We take in so many military applicants who come from out of state to apply. Good luck though. Been with APD for about a year and a half and work on the eastside.
My brother-in-law has a bar on the eastside
6th and Waller. Gotta swing by when I’m down. I read about the residency online, dunno if it’s true but I know that the academy isn’t until 2011 so I gotta be there for a year anyways.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 25, 2010 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions
This ain't no contest
but looking through the eye of my penis they’re all winners.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
god forbid the people that write for this site be allowed to relax and watch the fights with the other fans without their comments being dragged out of a live viewing thread.
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 24, 2010 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
to be honest
the fact that you, and the others, watch the fights and blog live makes this site more legit IMO. it’s very cool to interact w/the writers especially when we can chill and act as simple fans as opposed to being critical all the time.
"she told me she was on the pill." me
But obviously we can’t. I was having fun last night reading the site. Sad.
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 24, 2010 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Why not ban the hypocrites on here?
We got people saying that it’s sexist to call a chick a broad and then repeatedly calling women broads and now drooling over a gif of a women’s fight that’s slowed down to see a woman’s ass jiggle. Unreal.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Who are you talking about?
the one person throwing around broad is thisredengine and he states he has no problem with Snowden using it.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
That's what I'm saying
People are retarded (oh man I’m anti retard!) with having no problem looking at these dames during weigh ins but getting bummed on the term diva? HUH? Tate does have a nice booty though. Real Talk.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeez....

There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Yeah, that's what it is.
Or it’s just that I’d rather not be in the comments section with guys drooling over a gif like that. Go to a porn site if you want that shit.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Man homie, lighten up
guys are gonna be guys occasionally.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Amirite?

Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
That cat seriously looks like a person.
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
He's a handsome gentleman
Should I crack open my 3rd 4loko? Yes No Maybe (circle one)
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
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by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
(yes)
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay I'm getting weird tonight
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
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by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m way ahead and I’m on left coast time
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I went surfing for 4 hours
I’m so beat that I’ve caught up.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
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by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
3 hour business call
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
You get dehydrated on business calls?
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I kept muting the phone when I would hit the bong
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
strategery
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
i was at a wedding and drank two coors lights and got a buzz. yes i am a horrible lightweight
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
coors light? guess the new wife got to pick the beer too
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
but the mountains turn blue!
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
not gonna front
Was drinking Coors Light Nips…had 12 of them which I think is 6 beers?
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
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by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Pre surfing had 6 beers
I’m gonna be a mes…
Nate/Luke/Brent/Leland/Mods…I’m getting weird tonight, don’t ban me.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
The banhammer has been out today in full force dude
Its been like whack a mole round these parts.
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
been layin low
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
truf.
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I love it
it’s like being out in the old west. Let me poor one out for our lost homie Mcaff something or other…I don’t know I can’t remember his name.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
yeah he was a cool guy, whats his face.
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't hang on, nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember our first encounter
it was in a thread about Brock Lesnar, he called me a homo…we didn’t really talk much after that.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
who is drooling?
Its a nice butt. Damn…….porn? Really??? I………….nevermind.
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
That was an overused gif, not the picture of War Machine last scene..Phew, I’m kinda annoyed by this comment, I’m off.
I'm a lover not a fighter
Au revoir mon frere
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Big time
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
by Blackout612 on Jul 24, 2010 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's another Sexist comment
Summer 2010 is the summer of Side Boob and Under Boob.
Discuss!
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
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by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
U DRUNK
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
so drunk
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
In the morning 4 Loko laughs at you
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Watermelon 4loko is going down too easily...hrm...shoudl I drink 12% beer?
I thinkso!
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
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by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
quickly back away from the keyboard.
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Summer of sideboob is the best summer ever
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Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Way better than that Spring of the left testicle last year.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
don’t forget fall of the fartstar
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Both of you are complete boner kills
I mean I don’t have a boner but you guys are haters being hating.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
winter of the whispering eye better?
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Still missing the smell of your crotch and your browneyes!
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
someone lose a cat?
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh hello 3rd 4loko
What’s your name?
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not drinking alone if youre blogging
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm trying not to blog on my SB site while drunk
It’s getting tough not to have a “Sunday Night Drunk Post” about a soccer team
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
PS I opened up 3rd 4loko
Next is 12% booze beer
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
like cleaning Jiff out of shag carpet
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Thats pretty goddamn gross
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
WMRR
Watch Matt Roth Runs
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Can you get like Pat Barry though?

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
88 pound head tonka toy body
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I enjoy TapouT's sponsorship of that photo.
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Son I'm there
seriously I’m listening to backpack hiphop and there
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I am playing CoolBoarders 2 on PSone Classics!
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Jet Moto
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
must go buy…… And i need some Hot Shots Golf.
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
been playing a bunch of old games lately
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Just got done watching Zombieland
I don’t want to say that movie was overrated based on what people were saying about it, but I will say that it was not as good as was originally presented to me through the communications of others.
What happened to Bill Murray at the end was pretty funny though.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Fall of the Fartstar will be in 3-D this fall
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Glad they got away from the Saw title, was a bit tiresome
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Summer of Side Boob in 3d is the best time ever
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know I’ve seen some pretty bad side boob, where it looks like the skin is preventing an avalanche.
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Side Boob and Under Boob
Maybe I’m just lucky I know a buncha yoga chicks and surf skirts that have awesome side and under boobs.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
going to a 7/11 in the summer is dangerous shit, landbeasts everywhere
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
You live in a gnarly area man
I got beach yoga broads
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
“keep Portland weird” is a city slogan
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Portland is weird
All I see is surfer skirts in Jersey.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve seen Art Alexakis give homeless people money/food more than a few times.
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats why I avoid Wal-Mart
Sea Turtles and Velociraptors everywhere.
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
You guys are crazy
the better the cushin the better the pushin, the more the stuffin the plumper the muffin, the higher the fat percentage the better the…penis…enjoyement?
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
my penis
quivers when dominated by an overweight chick w/an overly flabby vag….jus sayin
"she told me she was on the pill." me
No offense
but your penis sounds like a big vagina.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Stop being such perverts you guys shit!!!!
This is an MMA site!
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah
stuff it ya mouthy man-broad!
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Didn't Snowden say he was drunk last night?
Although I was on Bad Left Hook and SC said he was drunk so I may be getting my drunks confused.
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
by SSreporters on Jul 24, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
no he wasn't drunk
I was…after seeing Springsteen at a tiny club playing Ramones and Stones covers.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
what Stones covers?
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude I was hammered ass drunk I can't remember shit
I’ve seen the dude live 36 times. He shows up at various clubs in the summer incognito.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
You sure it was Springsteen
you sure it wasn’t just…nobody?
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
son...I live in Asbury Park
I know Bruce Sprinsteen playing Ramones and Stones Covers.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
jersey shore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! where’s snookie at?
"she told me she was on the pill." me
Don't you ever mention that abortion of a show again
Or I’ll get a case of the murders.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
The music scene where I am at is at an all time low if you work at a Starbucks it’s cred for being a deep musician around these parts.
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 24, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m hanging out with SC right now. And I can vouch for the fact that he is drunk right now…last night though? I have no clue.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 25, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I've sobered up now and stand by everything I said last night.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 25, 2010 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I have no problem with Snowden writing this article, and I understand how he could see things the way that he does. What I will suggest, however, is that he’s seen a limited number and type of interactions – those that have happened publicly between Kaufman and Strikeforce – and made one possible inference – that Kaufman is a diva who has “lost touch with reality” – but supposed that it is the only inference.
I see things differently. I don’t have any special knowledge of recent events in the professional life of Sarah Kaufman; as much as I am a fan of hers, and of ZUMA (her gym, where I was lucky enough to train for two years), I haven’t spoken to anyone there in almost a year. But I will say that I know: A) the kind of person Sarah Kaufman is; and B) the kind of crap she’s had to put up with in her recent professional career. With respect to the first, I’ll say that “diva” is far from the word that I would use to describe her. Sarah has bit her lip over so many potential complaints, and has always been the most respectful, proper, almost-too-straight character in public. She praises everyone, takes everything as a personal challenge, and has been known to blush at mention of being a “champion” (and this was for the MFC championship). With respect to the second, she had multiple organizations promising her the moon, saying that they wanted to promote her, and still not booking her. Look at her record; see that year-plus gap between fighting Molly Helsel and Sarah Schneider? See the Meisha Tate fight LESS than a month later, and the Baszler fight just over a month after that? That’s not the kind of scheduling that happens when an organization likes, respects and is trying to promote a fighter. Kaufman got caught up in the EliteXC collapse, sure, but the discrepancy between what gets said when promotions are talking up the talent, and what happens when the promotions are being ruthlessly self-interested, is a large one.
All that I’m suggesting is that maybe Kaufman was just “telling the truth”. Far from biting the hand that feeds her, maybe Kaufman was just calling Strikeforce on something publicly that many have already called them on privately or speculatively (including here on BE). That point being that Strikeforce is having a hard time distinguishing between the Sarah Kaufmans and Jake Shields on the one hand, and the Bobby Lashleys and the Batistas on the other.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jul 24, 2010 8:47 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
Absolutely agree. I have no idea what Kaufman has had to deal with during her negotations with Strikeforce. She may have been promised a spot on the main Strikeforce show multiple times just to get her to sign before being forced onto Challengers. It’s not arrogant at all for her to talk herself up to the next level of viewership especially after an awesome performance, that’s the best time to talk about it.
My thoughts here
http://www.watchkalibrun.com/2010/7/24/1586406/the-snowden-says-kaufman-should
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 24, 2010 8:52 PM EDT reply actions
Congrats at the new gig man.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by thisredengine on Jul 24, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey man
If American Idol can trot out the shows losers on a tour every year why the F not?
There's no depth to my shallowness.
by MostDiabolicalHater on Jul 24, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Snowden hate?
Considering I was his biggest defender in tha Anderson Silva thread yesterday, you can GTFOH with that BS.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 24, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Your definition of hate is different from mine.
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
by SSreporters on Jul 24, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Am I the only one who reads Snowden's articles,
thinks to himself “I guess that’s an interesting point” and scrolls down and is like “WHAT THE FUCK? 400 COMMENTS?”
a kitten dies every time you compare an individual sport to a team sport.
by Marvin Malehooves on Jul 24, 2010 9:15 PM EDT reply actions
Not with the people on here.
The people that comment don’t seem to think, “oh that’s an interesting point”, they seem to think, “holy shit, something I don’t agree with, FUCK THIS GUY.”
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
LOL I dId the same for this article
“Well calling her a diva was a bit much but I see Snowden’s poi-HOLY SHITSTORM BATMAN!”
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
A Negative Nancy / Debbie Downer always gets boo'd
If people start agreeing with such negativity, we are in a bad way. I am glad that I can see joy in things.
I’m pretty much the same way. Everyone being all bent out of shape over Kaufman being called “diva” is really silly, there’s nothing sexist about that. It’s obvious his articles are sometime a bit inflammatory, but I don’t see why people bite to such a huge extent. The only one that kind of pissed me off was the one after Lesnar/Carwin, but this one here I pretty much agree with.
by Horselover Fat on Jul 25, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I figured I'd post my take on it here, since it's vastly different...
I find it interesting how two people can view one fighter and see their actions so differently. Here’s my take:
http://www.mmaforreal.com/2010/7/24/1585509/kaufman-sticks-it-to-strikeforce
by Matt Bishop on Jul 24, 2010 9:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
How can you discuss the issue without mentioning the thousands of fans leaving the building in the middle of her last main event. Isn’t that central to Strikeforce’s decision making?
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 24, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
It takes two to make a thing go right. It takes two to make it outta sight.
No one puts any blame on Hashi in that fight. She’d get tagged and then flop or back away the entire match.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Deo Wade on Jul 25, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fans did the same thing during Anderson Silva’s fights with Thales Leites and Demian Maia………..two fights that looked at least simmilar to Kaufman vs Hashi, with one person wanting to stand and exchange and another person being forced to butt scoot a lot.
When Dana White expressed outrage over Silva’s antics and said if he did it again he’d put him on the prelims, we were told this was a sport, and we can’t dictate how a fighter fights, and how we should just enjoy Anderson for what he is. Sarah Kaufman has one bad fight that nobody even saw to begin with, and you act like we should be happy to even see her on TV ever again.
Anderson Silva can crap all over the fans with horrible fights, and we’re supposed to eat it up as PPV main event fodder all day long. But Sarah Kaufman can’t headline a Strikeforce Challengers card because she had a bad fight against Hashi? C’mon.
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by Brian Mayes on Jul 25, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Which promotion makes millions per event and which promotion has no margin for error? Strikeforce’s number one priority is to deliver viewers to Showtime. If they don’t they’ll get dropped. So should Showtime risk their whole business on the principle that title fights headline and then see the show bomb followed by Showtime refusing to accept her on a broadcast again.
It may have been mortifying not to headline, but this is actually best for her. Hopefully the show did 200,000+ – much more than would have saw her headlining – and the fans came away impressed. Now they can market her, where if she had headlined this show and it bombed, not only would no one have seen her slam but Strikeforce and Showtime would have felt forced to move her lower in the card..
by nottheface on Jul 25, 2010 3:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
strikeforce does not got to worry about ratings with sho since its a pay channel
they dont got to sell to advitisers since there no commercials,its about subsribimg.i did not agree with sno on this one buyt did with the lesnar-carwin one
If Showtime is so worried about ratings, they need to start being concerned about putting together better Challengers cards. The Kaufman fight turned out to be the crown jewel of that entire card. The rest of that card was hot garbage. Frankly, some of those fights were hard to sit through. That’s the kind of stuff Strikeforce and Showtime need to be concerned with. How many people were turning the dial during that Cory Devella fight? I straight got up and made dinner in the middle of that fight, it was so pathetic.
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theyactually put preety dam good challengers out
this card was the weakest in a long time,abongo-kyle fight was good and girl fight.but i did leave in the voelker-devala fight to grab something to eat.
How can you discuss the issue while glossing over the idea that she’s the # 1 fighter at 135? It goes both ways.
http://www.instrength.com
by Beer Monster on Jul 25, 2010 4:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Okay, let's see if I've got this straight
Strikeforce promoting Herschel Walker and Bobby Lashley over their actual champions is a good idea because they get ratings, and no one can begrudge them for trying to make money.
Sarah Kaufman trying to get onto a card with more viewers by calling SF out publicly makes her a diva because we can totally begrudge her for trying to make more money.
I didn't know why she was
until now…..so what she is doing is working
Reports are out that ratings peaked with the Kaufman/Modaferri title fight.
Seems all that goodwill that Kaufman “lost” since her last fight was somehow gained back.
by Sergio Hernandez on Jul 26, 2010 6:39 PM EDT reply actions
Yes, massive success that-just 50,000 + below the last two Challengers cards.
by JonathanSnowden on Jul 27, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
So the lower ratings for this edition of Challengers is solely because of Kaufman?
by Sergio Hernandez on Jul 28, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions

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