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Dave Herman Trapped in Legal Limbo With Bellator

Is Dave "Pee Wee" Herman getting his fashion and legal advice from the same source? Photo via Sherdog

If you're like me you've probably been wondering where promising young heavyweight Dave Herman has been since EliteXC collapsed. Maybe you even vaguely remembered something about him signing a contract with Bellator a dog's age ago. Then he popped up beating on Don Frye in Texas. Then there was a rumor about being DQ'd in a bout with Sokoudjou. Then silence.

Loretta Hunt reported earlier this week and brought some light to the situation, Herman's in legal limbo:

Though he signed his name to the contract 21 months ago, as it now stands, Dave Herman will be conspicuously absent from the Bellator Fighting Championships season three heavyweight tournament that kicks off Aug. 12 in Hollywood, Fla.

Bellator attorney Patrick English confirmed to Sherdog.com on Tuesday that Herman will not be taking the eighth and final slot in the field, as the fighter and promotion are embroiled in ongoing litigation.

Herman, 25, is suing Bellator Fighting Championships for allegedly breaching a six-fight, 30-month contract he signed into with the promotion on Oct. 28, 2008. Herman is also claiming tortuous interference on the part of Bellator for a handful of fight assignments -- including a four-fight contract offer from Strikeforce -- he's tried to secure since January. The promotion is countersuing for alleged breach of contract as well.

You'll have to read Hunt's whole piece to get all the details of the legal back and forth. My quick and dirty summary, plus outside legal opinions and my commentary follows in the full entry:

Star-divide

Timeline:

  • October 10, 2008 -- Herman fights on the last ever Pro Elite ShoXC card notching a win against Kerry "Meat Truck" Shall. 
  • Late 2008 -- Herman signs with Bellator is promised two fights by November 2009. Herman alleges that he informed Bellator of his already signed upcoming Sengoku bout. He receives a $12,000 signing bonus. 
  • January 4, 2009 -- A visibly gassed Herman gets TKO'd by Mu Bae Choi at Sengoku No Ran 2009.
  • Early 2009 -  Herman's camp is allegedly told that Bellator CEO Bjorn Rebney will sue to get Herman's signing bonus back.
  • May 1, 2009 -- Herman beats Josh Barnes by TKO at Bellator 5. Bjorn Rebney is "not impressed".
  • September 12, 2009 -- Herman fights Don Frye for Shark Fights, claims to have Bellator's permission. 
  • November 2, 2009 -- Herman notifies Bellator in writing that they are in breach of contract for not providing a second fight in 2009. 
  • November 7, 2009 -- Herman beats Jim York in Sengoku in Japan. 
  • December 18, 2009 -- Herman notifies Bellator that they are in breach of contract. Bellator responds that Herman did not allow them the 45 day "cure" period specified in the contract to rectify the situation.
  • March 2010 -- Herman files suit against Bellator, alleging tortuous interference by the promotion in interfering with his attempts to accept offers from Strikeforce, Shine Fights and other U.S. promotions. 
  • A New Jersey judge denies Hermans request for an injunction against Bellator. Trial is expected in January 2011.

Here's a little more from Hunt's piece that brings us up to today:

On Monday, Bellator offered Herman a single bout that English said would have "no baring" on the legal proceedings or require Herman to waive anything. Herman, who said he's continued to train in anticipation of any fight, was skeptical of the offer, but was willing to hear the details.

 

"I'm ready to go now, but the best offer they've given me is to go back to the original offer," said Herman. "I have attorney's fees and they'd have to at least pick those up. I'm willing to talk and I've made that clear to them. I'd be happy to fight for them, but they have to make things right."

Herman estimates he's already spent $30,000-$50,000 out of pocket on legal fees and that other promotions are afraid to make him offers for fear of litigation from Bellator. Shark Fights' Medley said he expressed interest in booking Herman in an undercard bout at Shark Fights 13 on Sept. 11 in Amarillo, Texas, but felt he couldn't make an offer because of Herman's current legal situation.

Here's some commentary from "Fight Lawyer" Justin Klein:

...the fact that Herman waited almost exactly 45-days (by my count, 46-days), i.e. from November 2, 2009 - December 18, 2009, to advise Bellator that the contract was terminated suggests that Herman understood that he had to provide a 45-day window to cure before he had the right to declare the contract terminated.

Nonetheless, allegedly without written permission and allegedly in breach of the contract, Herman took the fight in Japan before the expiration of the cure period.

While Herman claims that Bellator didn't provide a fight in the 45-day period after his November 2, letter (and so Bellator didn't exercise its right to cure), that would not excuse any alleged breach by him that pre-dated the expiration of the cure period. In fact, it may actually excuse Bellator's breach because it could arguably justify its failure to provide a fight in the 45-day window.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, but the article states that the judge already denied Herman's motion for an injunction, which is not a great sign for Herman.

Klein may very well be right and frankly I expect Bellator to crush Herman in court. Herman made a number of mistakes here, but the biggest one was probably going to Japan to fight Mu Bae Choi in less than top condition and losing, thereby damaging his perceived value. 

From there it sounds to me like typical fighter-promotion miscommunication with a big helping of Bellator CEO Bjorn Rebney jacking Herman around for losing the Choi fight and no longer being a hot undefeated heavyweight. 

The real tragedy here is that more than a year of Herman's athletic prime has already been wasted and it looks like he won't be free to move on and fight elsewhere in 2011 either. 

Is the moral of the story that young fighters should beware of Bellator?

Not exactly, but it does make it clear that fighters should be very careful about entering into binding contracts, particularly when they've already got signed fights whose outcomes may impact the course of the subsequent contract. 

Fighters should also be very very very careful to cross every t and dot every i when attempting to terminate a contract. If Herman had simply waited out the 45 day cure period to terminate his Bellator contract BEFORE accepting another fight outside the promotion, he would quite possibly be free and clear. While I'm sure he badly needed the money, it appears in retrospect to be a penny wise, pound foolish decision.

The larger picture issue is this: with MMA in the U.S. rapidly consolidating into a monopoly at the top levels, most major regional promotions dying on the vine and only Strikeforce and Bellator existing as a second-tier underneath the UFC, fighters have very limited options to build their careers.

They can attempt to jump into the UFC shark tank early for very low pay but for every Jon Jones, there are 15 Chase Gormleys. 

Or they can sign with Strikeforce or Bellator and find themselves locked into contracts that are very nearly as restrictive as the UFC's but with fewer guaranteed fights and a very real possibility of being locked into a binding champion's clause should everything go right and they win all their fights. 

Fighters like Nick Diaz, Gilbert Melendez, Eddie Alvarez and Hector Lombard are in a honey pot trap. They've got decently lucrative contracts as champions with Strikeforce or Bellator, but their upside options are very very limited. They can't take the next logical step up to the UFC unless they lose their title, but if they lose their title, the UFC won't want them back.

This is no way to organize a sport. The fighters and fans are the ones losing out as the smaller promoters imitate Dana White's hardball style.

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Does Herman have a manager or agent? Isn’t it their job to properly advise him on the terms of his contract and the ramifications of taking fights outside the promotion?

" Real talk - A gorilla would shit kick Brock." – ElliotMatheny

by Day Man on Jul 23, 2010 12:19 PM EDT reply actions  

I believe he’s changed agents since this all went down, which complicates things. I believe his original agent was Mike Camp of F-1 Management.

http://www.instrength.com

by Tim Burke on Jul 23, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow thats pretty impressive knowledge. Thanks.

" Real talk - A gorilla would shit kick Brock." – ElliotMatheny

by Day Man on Jul 23, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

he sure does

and they apparently haven’t served him that well.
part of the problem is apparently Bellator’s revolving door policy with matchmakers. They signed a deal with one, dealt with a second one thruout 2009 and are now dealing with a third.

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by Kid Nate on Jul 23, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

So something along the lines of one matchmaker might have verbally consented to the fight but the next had no knowledge of it kind of thing?

" Real talk - A gorilla would shit kick Brock." – ElliotMatheny

by Day Man on Jul 23, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

pretty much

Loretta documents the atrocities.

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by Kid Nate on Jul 23, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Two things here. When looking at the terms of a contract you should be listening to a lawyer not a manager. Second the managers available to people starting out aren’t going to be as qualified and impartial as what say GSP has access to.

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by j.villain on Jul 23, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Both sides are being stupid here. Herman would still be the perfect 8th guy for this tourney.

Did he make a stupid move by going to Japan, out of shape, gassing and losing.. yes.

Is he still a young stud who would be easily one of the top 2-3 favorites in this tourney… yes.

Both sides need to get over themselves and get this settled so that a good young talent can get back in the cage and fight. Either let him fight, or let him go, don’t hold him up in court, that is just a BS move by an organization that up to this point hasn’t been know for getting involved in these type of issues.

by dpk875 on Jul 23, 2010 12:21 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah

Herman really should have taken the deal to get into the tournament, but he feels he’s been screwed hard and is out about $100,000 between the lost fight income from 2009, the $75,000 pay cut they offered and the $30,000 in legal fees he’s out.

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by Kid Nate on Jul 23, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

A fair amount of people are blaming Rebney for this, saying that behind the scenes, the new golden boy promoter is a hothead, holds grudges, and likes to sue people. And that he’ll be exposed soon enough. Guess we’ll see.

http://www.instrength.com

by Tim Burke on Jul 23, 2010 12:27 PM EDT reply actions  

That was allegedly his...

ref in the world of boxing so I’m not surprised.

What does surprise me is how people jumped all over the Shaws for being sleazy boxing promoters trying to cash in on MMA, while you never hear that about Bjorn at all.

by William Wilson on Jul 23, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s because he’s saying all the right things to the public and keeping his personality out of the limelight for now. It will catch up to him though…it always does.

http://www.instrength.com

by Tim Burke on Jul 23, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

So…. the Winnebago man rears his head again?

Ribbit.

by Ben Thapa on Jul 23, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s because people actually like the Bellator product.

by Simco on Jul 23, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sad but true...

…that probably means he has the perfect personality makeup to succeed in fight promotion

Travis Lutter is not the Michael Jordan of BJJ

by Mattyjudo on Jul 23, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

 I have heard the same about Rebney. I heard he lies and is very vindictive. His reputation is quickly becoming crap. He will last about as long as Gary Shaw did in MMA.

by MMAfan4242 on Jul 23, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

Jordan Breen said on his show yesterday that various agents have expressed to him that they would not let anymore of their guys get into Bellator contracts after the experiences they’ve had thus far.

by capital L on Jul 23, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Camp is a good person. People blaming him based on one article (albeit a well-written one) are acting out of ignorance.

by Simco on Jul 23, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

What do you think about "transfer agreements" Nate?

Much like in the MLB minor league system or like the NHL has with most European hockey leagues? Formalized transfer agreements between the UFC and second tier organizations like Bellator and Strikeforce would allow fighters like Lombard and Melendez to take the next logical step in their careers while providing their respective promotions with cash compensation for losing a promotional champion.

Just a thought and I’d like to get your perspective on it.

"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995

by Worldisart on Jul 23, 2010 12:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Since both SF and Bellator have aspirations to become major organizations, they would have no interest in such a deal. Even if the UFC gave SF a million dollars for a fighter, it wouldn’t make sense in the long run. (Imagine the UFC buying Diaz, Gilbert, Gina, and Cung Le. SF would basically not exist.)

IMO, the UFC should buy Bellator and operate it as a separate entity. The latino market has HUGE upside and their model seems to be working on a small scale. The UFC should buy it to continue driving the latino market and use it as a feeder league, taking guys like Eddie and Hector to the big show.

by Bob Loblaw TX on Jul 23, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

i think that would be awesome

do i think these asshole carnies that run this sport are smart enough to do anything like that? no. not a chance.
they’re so busy big-dicking each other i don’t see that happening.
MAYBE with Bellator and the UFC, maybe.

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by Kid Nate on Jul 23, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I would agree Bellator would seem a more likely partner than Strikeforce.

It’s silly the egos that dictate this sport. A partnership between Zuffa and Bellator could be incredibly beneficial to both parties, providing Zuffa with a real minor league system and providing Bellator with some name fighters to draw with that aren’t quite UFC caliber anymore.

"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995

by Worldisart on Jul 23, 2010 12:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Bellator wouldn’t be interested because Zuffa would never offer them terms that would make it worth their while. Mind you if Bellator goes under then the highest bidder will will claim the carcase and Zuffa has the deepest pockets.

Zuffa wouldn’t be interested because they are focused on looking up right now and dealing with Bellator would be a distraction. It is better for them to just buy a proven product once it has matured.

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by j.villain on Jul 23, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see it at all.

Zuffa has a serious hard on for keeping everything in-house. Prospect grooming isn’t much different. Unless they buy out Bellator it won’t work that way, and even if they do, then they’d have another WEC on their hands.

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-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jul 23, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unlike the WEC

They could treat Bellator like a developmental promotion. My understanding is that Zuffa’s deal with VS prevents them from using the WEC for that purpose.

"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995

by Worldisart on Jul 23, 2010 12:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

asshole carnies that run this sport… busy big-dicking each other

Rec’ing the hell out of this comment for pure, unadulterated truth.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Jul 24, 2010 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

I listened to the Jordan Breen Show yesterday

and according to him there are a ton of managers that after dealing with Bellator and their contracts no longer want anything to do with them.

I guess you can’t remain the 2nd-tier MMA darling for long….

If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants

by Tonley on Jul 23, 2010 12:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Can you elaborate? What was said and by who? Hopefully you dont say ken pavia, he can’t be calling anyone else shady.

by destructivist on Jul 23, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Paulo Filho’s management had some pretty nasty things to say about their contracts, but everyone wrote it off as Paulo being Paulo. Looks like he might have been on to something.

by Steve4192 on Jul 23, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Breen didn’t give out actual names but to paraphrase what he said:

Basically there’s a ton of managers (of fighters who were and weren’t in the tournaments) who don’t their fighters to go near Bellator because of how restrictive their contracts are. The best situation you can be in is to be a tournament winner and only have a few fights left but they still have the ability to sit on your contract and not allow you to fight for another org for a year or two. If you sign a deal with the assumption that you’ll be in a future tournament and you lose or they do another tournament in another weight class, you’re on lockdown basically.

He goes into it about 57 minutes into this episode:

http://www.sherdog.com/radio/Radio-quotThe-Jordan-Breen-Showquot-1570

If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants

by Tonley on Jul 23, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

who don’t their fighters to go near Bellator

should be

who don’t let their fighters go near Bellator

Fuck I’m sleepy.

If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants

by Tonley on Jul 23, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

 I have heard many managers want nothing to do with Bellator. From what I heard Bjorn and Sam Caplan are total assholes to deal with.

by MMAfan4242 on Jul 23, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sam Caplan?

I’m shocked. Shocked!

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 23, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

LOL

http://www.instrength.com

by Tim Burke on Jul 23, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL…yes we all know Sam is a creep

by MMAfan4242 on Jul 23, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I haven’t heard anything bad about Caplan in his Bellator role yet. Of course, given the rate at which they run through middle management types, I’m not sure Sam is going to be there too long anyway.

by Steve4192 on Jul 23, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s Sam’s other business dealings that have earned him his “rep”.

http://www.instrength.com

by Tim Burke on Jul 23, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sam was an investor in Elite XC…now he is a part of another promotion that will be out of business soon.

by MMAfan4242 on Jul 23, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

fuck money.

a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon

by eastcoastatlas on Jul 23, 2010 12:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Not to get all nerdy...

but the last EliteXC show was on October 10, 2008.

by William Wilson on Jul 23, 2010 12:44 PM EDT reply actions  

thanks much

fixed

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 23, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here’s the article Dave Herman mentions where Rebney is compared to Don King:
http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/staba85.html

by Chris Nelson on Jul 23, 2010 1:12 PM EDT reply actions  

interesting o well as long as the show s go on good ill be happy sucks that he is apparently a dick behind the scenes

Twitter @mikemazzacare

by MaZZacare on Jul 23, 2010 1:30 PM EDT reply actions  

I think fighters need to be very careful when it comes to non-exclusive contracts. They seem good on paper, but fighting for multiple orgs can get very messy, and seems to be the cause of lots of frustration when it comes to contracts.

They should really only have a non-exclusive contract with something like, “you can’t fight within x days of a scheduled fight with us,” these contracts that are very binding but with clauses that say, “you can fight somewhere else with permission” has proven to be a recipe for disaster.

by Phildo on Jul 23, 2010 1:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Bellator contracts are all Exclusive, but can fight in another promotion given their consent and stipulations.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 23, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

that’s the problem, fighters see that they can fight elsewhere with permission, but don’t realize how difficult it is to get that permission, and they’re stuck locked down.

What you described is the exact thing I think people should avoid, they get sold on the fact that they can fight elsewhere, but when push comes to shove, getting these outside fights is a pain in the ass, and leads to lots of problems.

They need to know that if they’re signing that contract, they better be able to live off of only what bellator is providing, because that’s all that’s really guaranteed.

by Phildo on Jul 23, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

To play Devil’s advocate though, shouldn’t a promotion play hardball and try to keep these fighters under contract so that they don’t jump ship? If I’m Strikeforce, I’d want to keep a Nick Diaz or Gilbert Melendez or Cung Le so that they don’t jump to the UFC. The UFC doesn’t want to co-promote, so what could a Strikeforce or Bellator do so that their stars don’t jump to the UFC? Pat Curran made his name off Bellator, and I’m sure that they’d want to keep a homegrown talent like him instead of just letting him jump ship.
It’s interesting to hear this stuff about Rebney. Bellator is so fan friendly especially with hardcore and internet MMA fans that they came off as that organization that could do no wrong.

by chrisbboy82 on Jul 23, 2010 1:42 PM EDT reply actions  

sure

I didn’t say it wasn’t to the promoter’s advantage. I just think it’s bad for the fans and the sport.

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by Kid Nate on Jul 23, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s not a black and white situation. There are independent minor league baseball leagues all over the country. They make money by being a cheaper alternative, giving old stars a place to finish out their career/look for another shot at the big leagues, and some young guys slipping through the cracks/who won’t give up their dream. If they lose some of their top fighters to the UFC, it gives them some credibility as a place where good fighters get their start, as opposed to random people just fighting.

I don’t understand why so many people think it’s a bad idea for SF and/or bellator to fill the niche of second tier.

by Phildo on Jul 23, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

CBS and Showtime

don’t want to admit that they’re airing 2nd tier mma

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 23, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Even though it is painfully obvious

by Steve4192 on Jul 23, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

the sooner everyone realizes that they aren’t very bright, the better off everyone wil be.

by Phildo on Jul 23, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even if they are why should they have to? I haven’t seen that in any business course I have ever taken? Did GM post adds saying that their cars weren’t as good as Toyota or Honda?

There are people that can’t afford $2500 a year to watch MMA and are grateful for alternatives.

HTML5 + WebM now! Death to Flash!!!

by j.villain on Jul 23, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Business-wise, I personally don’t see it a fair trade to lose your best employees to the competition just for credibility.

by chrisbboy82 on Jul 24, 2010 4:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Regional promotions dying?

Do you have any links to back that up? The regionals seem to be doing as good as ever. In fact, I keep seeing new small/regional promotions popping up all the time.

SF/Bellator are really more like the “not ready for prime time pros”. They’re not the minors, they’re the Japanese league. Or some such sports equivalent.

But your KotC events of the world are alive and well

by Jason H. on Jul 23, 2010 2:40 PM EDT reply actions  

the regionals

are far far from what they were before EliteXC bought up and then killed off 4 or 5 of the best regional promotions. I don’t have time to do the research this minute, but keep beefing with me and I will.

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by Kid Nate on Jul 23, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

although Jordan Breen tells me I'm wrong

so maybe you’re right. let me look further into it.

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by Kid Nate on Jul 23, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

But those four or five didn’t die off because the market wouldn’t support them. They died off because they couldn’t support the giant albatross that was ProElite’s overhead. ICON, KOTC, ROTR, Cage Rage, & Spirit MC were all doing just fine before ProElite completely screwed them up.

by Steve4192 on Jul 23, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

i didn’t say anything about the whys of their deaths, just that my understanding was their absence left a void that hasn’t quite been filled

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by Kid Nate on Jul 23, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cage Rage was replaced by a promotion that looks exactly the same and is run by the same people. The only thing that really died was the Hawaii MMA scene, and that was hardly EXC’s sole responsibility

by smoogy2 on Jul 23, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I was thinking that

Spirit MC is back promoting (although they were outta the game for 18+ months), and KOTC is doing even better w/ a TV contract. It’s just Hawaii.

http://www.instrength.com

by Tim Burke on Jul 23, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

EliteXC was replaced by Strikeforce
IFL was replaced by M-1
Bodog Fight was replaced by Bellator FC
Cage Rage was replaced by Ultimate Challenge UK and BAMMA

The reality is that “alternative MMA” hasn’t regressed. If anything, it has improved over time

by smoogy2 on Jul 23, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shark Fights...

has Jardine vs Prangley, Sokoudjou vs Houston coming up and has been drawing a 10K + crowd to their shows. Tachi Palace is doing fine, KOTC doing fine, etc. New promotions starting up like War On the Mainland, Canada is booming despite govt like LGIOMMA, AFC, etc.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 23, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

good good

glad to be wrong

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 23, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

MMA Big Show is fairly new and has already produced one breakthrough star (Roger Bowling) and seem to be doing a booming business for the folks at Belterra Casinos. There are TONS of local promotions that have cropped in the last five years and seem to be doing very well.

by Steve4192 on Jul 23, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t realize MMA Big Show was a casino fee type deal. Promotions like that seem to have a competitive advantage over independent house shows… TPF is booking shows that are in the same league as Bellator and WEC if you ask me.

by smoogy2 on Jul 23, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL...

I am assuming no one read this piece 2 years ago?
http://www.total-mma.com/2008/12/14/bellator-things-better-left-unsaid/

Oh, and while you are at it, go ask around why Masdival hasn’t fought in quite sometime. There are more fighters than just Herman dealing with contract disputes at the moment.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 23, 2010 2:54 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Masvidal fought 3 months ago in Astra.

http://www.instrength.com

by Tim Burke on Jul 23, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's in Japan

Herman is able to get fights outside the U.S. too

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by Kid Nate on Jul 23, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

http://www.instrength.com

by Tim Burke on Jul 23, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

hey Suprme!

glad to have you back.
even if you’re still obnoxious!

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 23, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

How far has Masdival gone with his issues? Has he already took this to the courts like Herman has?

Just BE.

by mattman73 on Jul 23, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fighters like Nick Diaz, Gilbert Melendez, Eddie Alvarez and Hector Lombard are in a honey pot trap. They’ve got decently lucrative contracts as champions with Strikeforce or Bellator, but their upside options are very very limited. They can’t take the next logical step up to the UFC unless they lose their title, but if they lose their title, the UFC won’t want them back.

Very salient point. I’m not really sure what can be done to solve this. I don’t see the UFC ever buying a fighters contract from another promotion. Probably the only way for them to lose their titles and still make it to the UFC is if they lost controversially (DQ, flawed decision, poor stoppage).

But, the good news is that Strikeforce and Bellator are both a lot more open to co-promotion. How awesome would a Strikeforce vs Bellator show be?

by DodgerFan86 on Jul 23, 2010 3:21 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m not so sure Coker is open to co-promotion with Bellator. There doesn’t seem to be any one more open in general to copro than Coker. But when it comes to Bellator he seems to be paying lip service to it and nothing more. It has had me wondering for a while what he might know that we don’t. If Melendez ends up at Dream 16 then we can probably assume that Rebney is getting the cold shoulder.

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by j.villain on Jul 23, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gil’s definitely not fighting at Dream 16. He’s out with a hand injury until late in the year (along with having a kid).

http://www.instrength.com

by Tim Burke on Jul 23, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree.

Coker has been very non-0commital when it comes to the possibility of making Alvarez-Melendez a reality. I don’t think he wants any part of co-promotion with another North American brand. Co-promoting with a promoter halfway around the world is one thing. Co-promoting with someone in your own back yard is quite another. The last thing Strikeforce wants to is help build Bellator’s brand equity and create a potential rival for their CBS/Showtime deal when it expires

by Steve4192 on Jul 23, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Melendez vs Aoki in DREAM and against Alvarez in a co-promoted event have definitely been in discussion.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Jul 23, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't want to get nicked for fighter bashing

but this couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy. /sarcasm

ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.

by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 4:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Bellator aren't going to win fighters over

If they play hardball thinking they’re a promotion that can.

It sounds like it’s better to cut your teeth with lower paying fights, but more frequently, on the smaller national and international circuit then to sign with Bellator or Strikeforce. If SF or Bellator approach you first, get a contracts lawyer to negotiate the terms before signing ANYTHING.

Every fighter wants to get in the UFC eventually imo, and don’t want their ceiling to be SF or Bellator. As bad as boxing is, at least boxers can fire their promoters.

by KJ Gould on Jul 24, 2010 8:13 AM EDT reply actions  

Interesting point from Meltzer today –


Bellator has signed a Dave Herman vs. Ricco Rodriguez match early in season two.

I think he means season 4.

http://www.instrength.com

by Tim Burke on Jul 24, 2010 6:26 PM EDT reply actions  

He’s wrong.

Herman’s reps have said on the UG that (1) it is a one-fight deal (2) have not discussed financial terms (3) have not seen a contract yet, much less signed one.

by Steve4192 on Jul 24, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

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