Why Do Fans Hate Anderson Silva? Three Reasons the Sport's Top Fighter Doesn't Attract an Audience
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 1:03 PM EDT
in MMA Events
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Some fans still believe in Fedor Emelianenko. For others, Georges St. Pierre holds a special place in their heart. Despite a recent loss, many are inclined to promote B.J. Penn as the best fighter in the world. But few would argue that Anderson Silva is not one of the top five pound for pound fighters in the world and possibly in MMA history. His string of wins is record setting; his ability to frustrate and then eviscerate opponents a thing of legend.
So, why hasn't the broader audience caught on? Despite the UFC spending years pimping Silva as the best fighter on the planet, despite a succession of impressive knockouts and submissions, despite a fun loving personal magnetism that leaves everyone in his wake smiling-Anderson Silva can't attract fans. As we discussed yesterday, his pay per view main events are indisputably among the worst performing every year. Without exception shows he headlined were box office bombs, to the point that the UFC felt the need to bring in big guns like Chuck Liddell and Penn to prop up Silva's shows. That hadn't happened since Tim Sylvia was stinking up the heavyweight division.
We know Silva doesn't draw. The real question is the one that keeps philosophers up nights and weed dealers in business, the biggest question of all -- why? Why doesn't a fighter, universally considered one of the very best of all time fail time and again at attracting an audience? I don't know, but I have a few ideas.
1. Nationality
Nationality in itself isn't an issue. Brazilians like Royce Gracie and Vitor Belfort attracted fans in the UFC's glory days. More recently, Wanderlei Silva has become a legend. But there is a distinction between these three men and Anderson Silva: they at least make an effort to speak English.
Silva has steadfastly stuck to Portuguese in his on camera appearances for the UFC. If you've been around backstage at the UFC, you know Silva speaks some English. His comprehension is certainly very good. But when the red light comes on, it's all Ed Soares all the time.
In today's America it's hard to be a star without speaking English. Even the biggest ethnic draws in boxing, men like Manny Pacquiao, speak the Queen's tongue. If it's important to Silva to maximize his income opportunities, he's really missed the boat by refusing to give English a shot. In a big way.
2. Race
Race is the hidden boogieman in most discussions of MMA versus boxing. Mixed Martial Arts is still a sport dominated by Caucasians. One of the few professional sports in America that can still make that claim outside of golf and Nascar. At UFC 117 there is exactly one fighter on the main card of African descent: Silva. UFC 118 features one African American on the main card. Spike's next Fight Night features a grand total of zero black athletes on the main card.
Like it or not, this racial makeup is going to attract people with impure motives. Chuck Liddell is no racist, but there is a reason he was the most popular fighter in the world with many disaffected young white males. There's a reason that some MMA apparel companies feature imagery derived from the Third Reich. This isn't coincidence This is the audience.
Slowly, as the sport goes more mainstream, this is changing. Rashad Evans and Quinton Jackson may have finally shattered the myth that African American fighters can't draw by bringing in more than a million pay per view buys at UFC 114. Young stars like Jon Jones and Muhammed Lawal have the potential to make a new generation of black youth fans of MMA, instead of boxing stalwarts.
The issue is bigger than MMA. It's bigger than sports. And it's an issue that has seen America take some enormous strides forward to confront in recent years. But racism is far from dead and I think plays no small part in Silva's failures at the marketplace.
3. Attitude and Effort
Somehow, Anderson Silva's off the charts athleticism and skill hurts him with fans. He just makes everything look so easy. With rare exceptions, he's been so good, so much better than his opponents, that he doesn't even have to break a sweat.
To many MMA fans a fight is a journey. Everyone becomes human once the bell rings. Even a monster of a man like Brock Lesnar has to tap when a hold is locked firm and takes a step back when punched in the face. Even the great Fedor Emelianenko has faced adversity only to triumph in the end, or not. We've seen St. Pierre humbled, seen Penn struggle just to continue. We've never seen Anderson Silva look human. And that's a big part of the problem. Fifty dollars is a pretty significant investment for many fans. Perhaps it doesn't seem worthwhile to invest that money in a fight that doesn't seem in question. Perhaps Silva is just too good, fans too unwilling to believe that an opponent, any opponent, can really test him.
Silva, of course, makes this problem worse by toying with so many of his foes. Dancing around the ring, screaming, taunting, refusing to engage-none of this makes him look particularly vulnerable. It just solidifies in fans' minds that Silva is on another level. And who wants to pay big money for a mismatch?
If I were the UFC, if I were Silva's manager, I would attempt a complete makeover. It doesn't matter so much if he's hated or loved. We've seen both heroes and villains attract huge gates. What he does need to be is understood. To be the kind of star a man of his talents deserves, English is the name of the game. He can't stop being black. He likely can't stop being exceedingly arrogant. That's just who he is. But he can learn to speak English and that will change everything.
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They should show Silva losing to a flying heel-hook and he’ll look human.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Jul 23, 2010 1:07 PM EDT reply actions
I just wanna make sure you see this Snowden.
You just stirred up more shit with one post than even the Great Kid Nate himself does in a week.
And that’s saying something. I love the guy, but people here seem to wanna pick fights with him for any reason they can.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
it's true
he’s taking a lot of the heat of ol’ KN
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jul 23, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re free to say whatever you want about Dana, without having his goons trying to bash you for it. At least until tomorrow.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
HBO recently decided to no longer air the heavyweight division mainly due to the Klitschkos and they behave well and speak english.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Jul 23, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
They were also among HBO's top draws.
a kitten dies every time you compare an individual sport to a team sport.
by Marvin Malehooves on Jul 23, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I would take the language barrier a step further. Portuguese is a language that a lot of people haven’t learned. Many people know how to speak other languages such as Spanish or French because it’s taught in high school and collge. Silva though speaks Portuguese a language that isn’t normally taught in high schools or colleges.
"Dodger fans aren’t happy when foul balls get into their section, because it interferes with their playing with the beachball"- Mike Krukow
I think there is only one main reason that people don't like Anderson Silva
He put on a bunch of boring fights, because he (or his opponent(s), up to separate debate) did not engage, and/or was disrespectful in the octagon.
Race, nationality, size, lack of good smack-talking out side the cage are certainly contributing factors, but I think you looked a bit too deeply in his case.
by jafotinatos on Jul 23, 2010 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 11 recs
I agree – people may or may not pay $50 to see a fight they know will end by knockout in the first round, but they will definitely not pay to see a guy they love to hate dominate the way Silva does. If you hate Lesnar or GSP, you may tune in and hope they lose, but who buys in thinking Silva might lose to Cote or Maia?
"I'd love to be a Cheick Kongo looking brother that could actually move and do a lot of funky stuff - Jiu Jitsu, takedowns, kicks and stuff." - Jon Jones.
"This is the internet: you either have soul-stopping power or you’re a pillow-fisted pansy. There is no middle ground." - woomikee
Yeah, I agree with you and jafotinatos....
Lack of an attractive dance partner is what hurts him the most….like the Klitschko brothers….The Belfort fight woulda been a great match up….I think Sonnen will make for an exciting fight though, the wolf on top of the hill isn’t as hungry as the wolf who’s climbing the hill….I have a feeling he’s gonna surprise alotta people….including Silva.
by ultimoshogun on Jul 23, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
People didn't like him before those fights
Or they were at best indifferent to him. Those fights aren’t the main cause of this problem, although they don’t help.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
by Worldisart on Jul 23, 2010 1:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, prior to the Cote, Leites and Maia fights . . . he was not a huge draw.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Jul 23, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
He put on a bunch of boring fights, because he (or his opponent(s), up to separate debate) did not engage, and/or was disrespectful in the octagon
\
This is why I don’t care to watch him fight anymore. I used to like him, but if he can beat a guy, then fucking beat a guy and not run around the octagon like your on a fucking stripper stage.
That and boring opponents don’t help.
"To resist is to piss in the wind......"
I would argue the complete opposite...
Before anderson’s “boring fights” he still simply was not a draw…
I can agree with this article as a whole except with one addition to “RACE”
- The dynamic that an ignorant person of African decent and one with some education or class
- Rampage is a huge draw and he’s of African decent and yet Rashad most likely still isn’t If Anderson behaved ignorantly i beleive he would probably gain more fan’s in this current Caucasion sport.
Exceedingly Arrogant ?
How do we speak of how nice he is and then how arrogant he is? I’ve never seen Anderson anything but nice outside the cage…In the cage the Spider shouldn’t have to be as nice or polite…
I’m not resting until I’m officially Anderson Silva status.- Jon "Bones" Jones
by AfroSamurai on Jul 23, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rashad draws just fine
As much if not moreso than Rampage. He carried UFC 108 pretty much on his own
Thank you for saying it
People dislike Anderson because he dares to be cocky. No one likes an “uppity” Black man. That’s why Rashad is so hated. Thing is, people pay to see him. Rampage knows the game, that’s why he coons it up to get those fans.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So if Rashad is so hated...
why are people paying to see him? His entertaining and engaging fighting style?
They pay to see him get beat
at least in general.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
People want to see the cocky arrogant Black man get put in his place
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I honestly don't feel Rashad is arrogant..
He’s been a bit showboaty in some fights (I remember the thing on TUF with Hughes and all) but nobody I know has ever thought of him as a cocky fighter. Boring? Yeah. But not cocky.
I don't think he is arround either
Everyone calls him cocky. Go around to various message boards.
People remember the one dance he did on TUF and labeled him as a showboating cocky fighter, but failed to remember him not taking Matt Hughes refusal to train him personally and going about his training alone. They forget the talk he gave Melvin about letting your actions speak and not going around talking about how you’re gonna knock someone out. That’s what I mean when I say “unfairly labeled” as the badguy.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you truly believe that?
Being serious, not trying to start a pissing contest, and maybe you are more right than I think. Sure, there is an element of that out there (the sub-90 IQ drop-out crowd), but I really don’t see that as being a big component of this as that crowd is not likely to be buying any MMA PPVs…
Personally, I believe mix of Anderson not speaking english + having zero public personality has a lot to do with it.
As for Rashad, I think he is looked at by the majority of mma fans much like Koscheck – big mouth, show boats, and yet is a boring fighter. I disagree, but then again I am a wrestling / grappling guy myself.
The fact that he was verbally breaking down Rampage, a hugely popular fighter on TUF helped polarized people against him as well. If anything, people seemed to come away from that with the specific desire to see Rampage put him in his place, but that is a different issue…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Then again
GSP has zero personality and only marginally better english, so maybe you are onto something here…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Marginally better English than who?
I don’t hang out backstage, so I don’t know how well Anderson really speaks english. But GSP is fluent (though he has an accent) whereas Anderson NEVER speaks more than maybe 2 words of English on Camera.
So GSP has (or uses) far far far more English on camera than Anderson does.
Yeah GSP's English is much better (that we actually see on cam)
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 24, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Do I think it’s an overwhelming majority of MMA fans that are out and out racist? Nah, not even close. But the number is there. Hell, we all suffer from prejudices and it colors our perception of fighters.
Anderson’s not speaking english plays a factor as well.
What has Rashad done to be labeled as cocky? Talked trash to Rampage? Rampage talked shit to him too. All fighters talk shit. Grab his dick? True, but that was way after the Rashad hate was in full effect and Rich Clementi did worse to Melvin and got no flack. Koscheck is much more a trash-talker than Rashad. Rashad was nothing but respectful to all opponents even Tito when Tito was trashing him before the fight.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I never really felt any Rashad hate
Until he was on TUF. That is why I prefaced it as I did.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah ok.
As a Rashad fan, it was prevalent during season 2. It was hell posting on the TUF boards.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude, Clementi took a bunch of flak. He just wasn’t as high-profile. Your examples are bad.
http://www.instrength.com
I was on Sherdog and everyone yuked it up
Where did he take “flak”?
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
IIRC UG didn't have a problem either
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
HA
Everywhere else. If you’re using Sherdog as your metric for ANYTHING, that’s your problem right there.
As for the UG, go back and look. It was there. As it was in many other places.
http://www.instrength.com
You can use Sherdog as a metric for fan reaction
Just not intelligent discourse.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, as I said below…there’s a search engine there too. And there’s google. And many other places. The backlash is there. If you missed it, okay, you missed it. You didn’t seem to miss it in any case that fits your argument though.
http://www.instrength.com
You're refuting my assertion.
Burden of proof is on you. I went to the UFC 116 thread. Wasn’t much. I’m not going to search through threads about other subjects just because you said it was there. If you say it’s there, they you use the search and find it. That’s what happens in a discussion.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Edit: Wrong comment in wrong spot
Disregard
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s racism both ways. Don’t pretend it can only be whites hating on blacks as you seem to have been in many of your comments.
by dreamers_12345 on Jul 23, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Was it that he was pretending that racism doesn’t exist towards whites, or was it that racism against blacks happens to directly relate to the article thats currently being discussed? Seriously, it sounds like you’re ready to get into something that might turn really ugly.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
What are you talking about?
Who said it wasn’t both ways? We’re discussing the perception of a Black Brazilian. Trying to keep it related.
Now if you want to sit down and write an article about the small number of Black fans and their prejudices against White fighters, then we can talk.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Someone has some things they’ve been waiting to get off their chest….
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
That's what I'm saying
It’s like it riled up the hornet’s nest
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Every fight before Cote was exciting and he didn't have a huge following.
There are a number of reasons Silva doesn’t sell:
1) Race I am sure it plays some sort of factor, but it may not be the biggest factor. Unfortunately racism does exist and manifests it self in many ways. It is next to impossible to determine how much of a factor it is here, but it is probably a factor.
2) Nationality I do think this a a big factor. There aren’t many UFC event s where a cheer we don’t hear a chant of “USA – USA – USA” when an American faces a foreigner. I think this is a large factor.
Royce Gracie and Vitor Belfort attracted fans in the UFC’s glory days. More recently, Wanderlei SilvaBelfort is debatable as big fights were against Couture and Ortiz who are two of the historic top draws.
Gracie was around in the early days before there was a choice about who to watch if you watched, it was Gracie or Shamrock, that was about it and if I remember correctly, most people went bananas looking for Americans to beat him.
Wanderlei I love the guy, one of my favorites, but is he that big of a draw in the US? When has a card he been responsible for big numbers? UFC 92 was huge, but he wasn’t part of the main event or the co-main event. Aside from that, and the Chuck Liddell bump he received at UFC 79 he has been on cards that did very poor numbers. UFC 110 was one of the worst in recent memory.
Machida / Rua There two fights did a little over 500,000 buys each, which is below the standard of
Nationality is a big factor!
3) Attitude and Effort
I think the in ring dancing / mocking is a non factor. As Jonathan established yesterday, Silva hasn’t been a draw since 2007, which was long before these issues were raised. they don’t help, but they aren’t the root of the problem. As for “making things look easy” that brings me to the next big factor…
4) Compelling Match Ups
When is the last time there was any kind of hype for a Silva fight. The Griffin fight is the only fight I can think of with marginal hype (outside of the hardcores) and if my memory serves me, that card did fairly well. Outside of Henderson (who was lagely unknown to American audiences) the UFC has failed to find credible / compelling opponents for Silva time and time again. This is the biggest downfall IMO.
by truck on Jul 23, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Totally agree...
Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, but I think this article is way off base, especially on the race part. I’m not going to pretend racism is dead, but an entertaining fighter is an entertaining fighter. Same reason people love Rampage but hate Rashad.
by beeran on Jul 23, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bullshit
He was the most exciting fighter in the world and still didn’t get good numbers
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Strongly disagree
“But racism is far from dead and I think plays no small part in Silva’s failures at the marketplace.”
You’ll need to give some real evidence of this. Americans are perfectly happy to support black sports stars — see Kobe, Lebron, Tiger, Jordan, Mike Tyson. The problem with Anderson is the language issue (as you mention), but more importantly, it’s his refusal to engage and destroy his opponents. If all of his fights looked like the Chris Leben fight — and make no mistake, he could make that happen if he wanted to — he’d be a much bigger draw. IMO.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
Fan of: Cole Miller, Dentist Neer, Alan Belcher, Bones Jones, Frank Mir
by Pootwich on Jul 23, 2010 1:22 PM EDT reply actions 12 recs
^^That
and he has real no competition, at least thus far. He destroyed Franklin twice (himself a below-average PPV draw) and what opponent has made a scintillating match-up for him since? What is the PPV attraction on watching one guy after another get skunked? I think the Belfort match-up would have been more of a test to see what kind of true drawing power he has. Sonnen is woofing his sweet little heart out to sell the snake-oil for this match, but I don’t think he’s fooled many into thinking he has a strong chance to be competitive.
That is in sports that feature predominantly Black atheletes.
Anyone who has ever been to a Mets game can tell you David Wright gets more pop than anyone on that team, every time out.
by E_liminatorjr on Jul 23, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Not Tiger Woods though.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
Fan of: Cole Miller, Dentist Neer, Alan Belcher, Bones Jones, Frank Mir
Well, he's just special!
But the chants of “USA, USA” don’t really come when two Caucasian fighters face off. Race matters in the world, as in MMA.
by E_liminatorjr on Jul 23, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Race does NOT equal nationality.
B/c fans chant U-S-A against english fighters – see Bisping, Michael.
Hell, even during the Mayweather Hatton fight, which had been hyped w/ Mayweather playing a big time heel, fans were chanting U-S-A.
USA chants may be dumb, but come on. They aren’t automatically all about race.
True, that
Also the Williams sisters in tennis. But it’s different sports with different fan bases. Just because black athletes achieve popularity in one sport doesn’t mean race isn’t a factor in another. If you want to compare different sports, you should at least selects sports with similar fan bases. A good comparison for the UFC is WWE. Do you think race is a factor in WWE? How many black wrestlers compared to white wrestlers are there?
A good comparison for the UFC is WWE.
I can’t agree with that, since it’s not a sport, and the personalities are artificially manufactured to make people like or dislike them. And I honestly don’t know how much crossover there is between the two fan bases.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
Fan of: Cole Miller, Dentist Neer, Alan Belcher, Bones Jones, Frank Mir
Personalities are manipulated by the UFC as well
Just look at the BJ/GSP Countdown show for evidence of that.
http://www.instrength.com
Huge. The Ultimate Fighter owes a great deal of its success to the crossover fans sticking around after Monday Night RAW. And wrestling is an industry that has attempted to sell fans on African American wrestlers on only a handful of occasions in its 100 year history.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
And the Williams' sisters are still hated by players and media and some fans
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure that has nothing to do with the fact that Wright leads the team in BA, hits, OBP, runs, HR, 2B, RBI and slugging. Clearly, Mets fans are a bunch of aspiring Klan members…
Sure...
I was waiting for someone to say this. Lol.
by E_liminatorjr on Jul 23, 2010 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
But, JS has a point in looking at this from the UFC perspective...
… and not all sports.
UFC 117 and 118 are predominantly Caucasian fighters and if you look at the current title owners, there is a lack of AAs in the mix.
I don’t deny the language barrier is “insulting” to many Americans who feel that English should be a given for anyone fighting as long as AS has in the States, but you can’t deny the fact there aren’t many African descent fighters holding belts and how that plays a part.
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Jul 23, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Stand corrected!
I was looking at the article and NOT researching that claim for myself.
Appreciate the info.
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Jul 23, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Silva is NOT AA, he is a Black Brazilian
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Afro-Brazilian or Black Brazilian
Cuz South America is a continent.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Anderson's a pardo, like me.
Ur gonna have to deal with that!
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope you will forgive my ignorance,
But what is a pardo?
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
A mixed person.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks
I supected, given the context, but did not want to assume.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep.
Some mixed people call their self mulatto, which is a mule.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh no you don't
you get your curly haired, slightly passable in certain lighting hands off him!
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Excellent.
First Chris Brown. Then Obama. Now Anderson the Spider motherfucking Silva.
The Triad is complete.
WE CAN’T BE STOPPED NOW!
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd reconsider the Chris Brown option
I’m just saying you might wanna let his contract expire.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Nope.
He’s a come back story. Besides, we all know a little domestic violence isn’t enough to keep the white girls away.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Cause he cried a river at the BET awards? Dudes had flippers and scuba gear on after they had to follow him, Beyonce just about slipped and and nearly drowned to death, back up dancers were getting cramps cuase they just ate 20 minutes ago. The front row had to put on rain slikers with the hoods up looking like the Gordon Fisherman. They had to put levees up on the stage to make sure niggas weren’t up on roofs with signs again, and some other black guy ranting…
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Don't get me started on the BET awards.....
I personally hate the guy. But if we’re forming a Coalition of Mixed Peoples to take over white America, Chris Brown is on this list. Along with Ubereem, Obama, Rhianna, and Anderson Silva; this world is ours.
On a serious note, I LMFAO’d watch that bitch ass nigga cry.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don’t forget Drake and the little brother on Prison Break, he’s got a Jamaican something or other.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
I forgot about Drake.
We’ll see how long he sticks around. He seems a little jewy.
Did you know his name is Aubrey and he grew up in a wealthy part of Toronto and he played a boy in a wheelchair for ten years? A wealthy part of Toronto must be the nicest place in the world. A place where the homeless drive Mercedes.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
They must spit in your face if you give them a single, when a homeless dude gives you change you know you gotta problem. They don’t have cups to put change in, they have tellers. People must go to shelters on the weekend to serve caviar. They have signs that say “Will put in a good word for you at my firm for food.”
When a half jew from a Canadian suburb that used to be on a sappy teen drama can make it big as a rapper, the Ice T’s of their day better kiss their ass goodbye (not to say they aren’t still represented, just look at Ice T light-T.I.).
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
They ask you for change
for a 50.
Yeah its pretty nuts. That just proves that if you drink enough Spirte, anything is possible
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
I drank about six bottles today so far and all I have is a slight migraine. The sad thing is I’m not joking.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Your saying he drink more, right?
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
If he’s drank that much Sprite he should have downed at least a fifth of Captain Morgan mixed in with it.
Eww
don’t you know alcohol is bad for you? Now excuse me while I go pass this family of kidney stones.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Are you wearing Lugz?
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn
the missing piece.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
I drink a two liter of sprite and throw on my lugz every time I hit the court.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn son
you must have to swat the bitches off you with your penis.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
yep
with my diznick.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
What the fuck he crying about any???
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Alistair Overeem.
He’s ours now too.
Racial Draft., motherfucka. Choose up.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Y'all can have Overeem
He’s still got that flattop that went out of style 15 years ago.
Ol Al B. Sure looking fool
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Alright
but don’t come crying to me when when the HW king is rocking an S curl.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Brock Lesnar is gonna grow his hair out?
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
He is built like a black man…
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
We got him on the "Eminem technicality".
“Rondell, no hustling. You can’t hustle me, I’m the ultimate hustler.”
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
On those grounds, we of the mixed delegation, draft Dr. Cornell West.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
WAIT A MINUTE HERE
He raps, wears an Afro and a three piece cotton suit. That’s a Negro thru and thru.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
But
he’s one of the most respected scholars in the wolrd. Clearly, this falls within the Eminem technicality.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
im reasonably african american
and you two pardo’s are crackin me up.
False.
There are no reasonable African Americans.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok ok
You get Cornel West, but you’ve gotta take Michael Eric Dyson with him. Final offer Pardo.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Man... This is tough.
Alright, but you get both Gumbels.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah hell nah. HELL NAH
OK, we take the Gumbels…and we get Halle Berry.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Back to the language issue for Anderson, I have two words for you as a fellow Rockets fan
Yao Ming
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
"He's been hanging out with Black players learning a lot of slang and shit talking."
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Bahahahahaha
I was actually talking about how, in the beginning he only spoke through an interpreter. Once he learned and started using english, fans really warmed up to him.
Same thing would happen with Anderson…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Well he was learning English back in China as they knew he would be in the NBA
Plus he lives in America and HAS to integrate.
But if Anderson learned English, it would help.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
Man get yo Don Pardo self outta here tryna claim Anderson. If we gotta have Zulu, we get Anderson. Didn’t you see the racial draft?
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
You can have Bobby Lashley….
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
We get Melvin Guillard
cause he’s got blonde hair.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Take the Cokehead
We get Brock because he’s “Built like a Black man”.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Deal.
But only if your willing to swap Koscheck for Daley.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Correct
This race canard really needs to be marginalized. Whites and other races have and do support athletes, movie stars, politicians, musicians, Supreme Court nominees, heads of political parties, joint cheifs of staffs, engineers, doctors, talk show hosts, bobsled athletes, CEO’s, mayors, governors, senators, congresspeople, librarians, porn stars, etc..etc,..etc..
Constantly pushing people back on their heels by accusing them of being racists is getting very, very tired.
by dualdiagnosis on Jul 23, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 11 recs
defensive much?
seriously, race is a big ugly issue in the U.S. and the world and everyone I’ve ever met who pushes the “color blind society” “let’s put all this behind” us line is generally on the wrong side of every racial issue.
Present company excepted of course.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jul 23, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 11 recs
Agreed
Too many people in this world want to take the approach of ignore it and it will go away. Race is an issue that needs to be acknowledged in order to be dealt with.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
Defensive much? is a nice way to throw the race card out there
Any disagreements on any of the examples I gave?
Where did you see a denial that racism exists or that my comment is pushing “the color blind society” or “lets put this all behind us”?
If people are going to accuse people of being racists, at least have some sort of evidence. See Sherrod, Shirley.
by dualdiagnosis on Jul 23, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
what did you mean by this?
“This race canard really needs to be marginalized.”
if that’s not saying we’re in a color blind society, what is?
and I salute your brave and sterling support of Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court.
And Snowden didn’t accuse anyone of being racists. He just said that there is a racist element in MMA fandom. Having dealt with the nazis etc who flock to MMA shows, I know that’s a reality.
I hate to break it to you, but race is still a factor. If it wasn’t people wouldn’t get so upset everytime it comes up.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Yes, there are racists. Yes, there is still a problem with human beings accepting “otherness”.
My issue is throwing a charge of racism to explain why a certain athlete or individual is not popular is a very good example of how easily the racism charge is leveled.
Carl Lewis was a phenomenal athlete with great looks but was never treated with the affection of Usain Bolt. The same can be said of George Foreman vis a vis Ali before he made a personality transplant.
I seem to remember MMA fans cheering, supporting and rooting for Carlos Newton, Maurice Smith and David “The Crow” Louiseau back in the knuckle dragging days of human civilization.
by dualdiagnosis on Jul 23, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
there's a difference
between making accusations of racism against specific people and speculating that a fighter’s race impacts his commercial performance.
If you’d worked in marketing and politics as long as I have you’d understand just how big a role demographics plays in consumer and voter behavior. Snowden’s trying to take a big picture look at why the guy isn’t more popular. He’s not accusing anyone of being racist, he’s a accusing everyone of being a little bit racist.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
A very big difference
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Geogrpahic link
Based on people feeling there is a racial element for the lack of draw to Anderson Silva, I wonder if there is any link between regional buys in PPVs when Silva fights. I certainly don’t think racism is dead, but I do not think it is a significant factor with Silva. I don’t think there is a way to measure his popularity (in terms of PPV interest) per card, but I would imagine after some of his broing showings it is way down, and after some of his exciting fights it is up. I was at the Philly show with Silva-Forrest, and the crowd booed Silva galore when he came out, and after he KO’d Forrest the entire crowd went nuts and loved him.
MMA fans are fickle, and i am sure quite a few have racial issues, but I just don’t see the link here with Silva and race. there are too many variables and people of diverse backgrounds to think that this would be a significant impact on Silva. I think if someone were to not buy a card based on Silva’s race, you would seem similar numbers with other minorities in main events, and i would think someone with this strong of an opinion based on a fighter being black would also not like Canadiens, Hispanic fighters, etc.
Something everyone seems to overlook in this
Compare Silva to Franklin.
-MW championships
-Bland public personality
-Largely not in compelling fights / unknown opponents
-Fights in the weakest division by far
-Mainly stand-up fighters (removing the widespread hate for wrestling)
-No trash talk or attention drawing antics to sell fights
-Not among the most successful as PPV draws
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Beautifully said.
Tired of hearing this shit about racism.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
The fact that some are focusing on race to dispute the article
says a lot. He listed 2 other factors as well.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
The two other factors
Represent 99.9% of the reason he has trouble with fans
Wholeheartedly disagree
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
We established in this thread that you hold a generally low opinion of black fighters. You’re not representative of most MMA fans.
No we haven't
We’ve established that you fail to grasp the concepts of a discussion and deal in absolutes.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Anderson Silva had much more exciting fights
plus he had the title. Title fights are generally 40%+ higher in buyrates. Franklin had the title for two PPVs and did decent numbers for that time in history. Since then he has been decimated by Anderson twice, lost to Hendo, lost to Belfort. Anderson has not lost. And Franklin STILL outdraws Angerson.
They are similar, but not congruent. Anderson should be a bigger draw.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
Which brings me back to my main contention that it is a mix of bland personality + no attempt at english.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
For me
I think Americans use the “I don’t like people who don’t speak English” as a cleaver new way to hide their racism. Generally it’s directed at Mexicans, however.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
There is some truth to that
Drive through some small Texas towns…you will see stores with signs out front saying “english spoken here”
Granted, something is usually misspelled, but you get the idea…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah. American Xenophobia is a much much broader issue than racism (maybe not as deep or as troubling, but it encompasses more than just racist behavior).
Anybody ever been to France and observed American Tourists getting pissy b/c the French people “refused” to speak English?
And even when it isn’t hostile or insidious, having a language barrier obviously makes communication harder.
Americans want everybody to speak English – this includes every race and nationality.
I wouldn't call Anderson's personality bland at all
I mean come on here aren’t we talking about a guy that literally dances the Sambo during fights. A little back people were getting their panties in a bunch because he spent too much time during an interview clowning around.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Exactly, I don't see "bland" when I watch Anderson
The guy makes hilarious facials, exciting moves, dances before, during, and after fights.
Bobby Lashley (“We love you Bobby”) is bland.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
If Lashley is bland than so is
flavorless yogurt.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Read his commentery
Well, Ed Soares’ actually, but either way he is bland in his general public persona…
Lack of english is #1, personality is #2, however distant of a #2 it may be.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Well yeah, basically anytime Anderson addresses his fights in any way, unless he just put on a good performance, he’s about the same as any other fighter talking about their career. But you can just watch the little all access thing they did with him a few years back and see what a goof he is.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Exactly
We’ve all seen the video of him impersonating fighter’s stances.
We’ve all seen him dance out like Michael Jackson in PRIDE. He’s not bland at all.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Cheering a fighter =/= him being a draw
Rashad was cheered after the draw with Tito (after being booed before) and still went on to draw piss poor versus Bisping and Silva.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Ate you crazy?
Or young? Carl Lewis was LOVED. He was on Wheaties boxes, always on TV shows, etc.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
If anything, I would say Lewis was far more popular than Bolt…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
how can the majority of your posts be so wrong?
… ESPN got it right, focusing on the ambiguity of Lewis’ career, exploring how an athlete of his towering ability -the guy was so good, and so clutch -could fail to connect with a sports-crazed society.
It hits home in South Jersey, for Lewis is the best athlete ever to emerge from these parts -a nine-time Olympic gold medalist who ran faster and jumped farther, for the longest period of time, than any other person in the history of track and field.
‘’I think it will be decades before we as Americans look back and truly understand what this guy did,’’ ABC-TV’s Jim Lampley said during the half-hour show, which will be re-broadcast at 8 a.m. today and midnight Wednesday on ESPN. ‘’Interestingly, Europeans know, Asians know -there he is as big a sports hero as you could ever find. But Americans may never fully appreciate who Carl Lewis was and what he did.’’
Lewis’ failure to ascend to Michael Jordan’s exclusive neighborhood in terms of celebrity and popularity always has been a bit of a mystery, although there have been plenty of clues.
He was always complaining about his lack of popularity- Google can be your friend.
by dualdiagnosis on Jul 23, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I lived it, don't need Google
From the article:
Lewis’ failure to ascend to Michael Jordan’s exclusive neighborhood in terms of celebrity and popularity always has been a bit of a mystery, although there have been plenty of clues.
No shit, not too many people are Michael Jordan level. Track and field also isn’t that popular in America in terms of viewership and people watching it religiously.
Google can be YOUR friend as well:
And look at all the TV appearances he’s made
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0507006/
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you really think
personal experience is a substitute for google?
I read on wikipedia that its not.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I gave him a lil Google
Think of it as cilantro
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
but wait...
he’s a black guy who made millions on endorsements? how can that be here in AmeriKKKa?
My point wasn’t whether he was on the wheaties box, it was whether he had the same affection from the fans as Bolt. Really, you can actually reread my post, it’s still there.
But, lets flip it and say Bolt was more beloved by the fans, how does that translate into racism?
You take every conceivable situation, more loved , less loved, more PPV dollars, less PPV dollars, etc etc. and call it racism. I would say it’s hilarious, but it’s way to serious a charge to do that. It’s just sad and pathetic.
by dualdiagnosis on Jul 24, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
"Michael Jordan level"
Lewis was loved much more so than Bolt. People were fascinated by Bolt but not in love with him.
What point are you making with Bolt vs Lewis? That makes no sense in the argument.
Also, no one is saying RACE is the ONLY factor. Or even the BIGGEST. Just that it IS a factor and people denying such are wrong.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 24, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Race is such a touchy subject with the "majority"
To deny it’s latent effects is crazy.
Just because “some” support “some” athletes, doesn’t paint everyone with a positive brush.
Obama was elected by a majority and is still subjected to some of the most racist shit I’ve ever seen.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
White suburban kids have the luxury of thinking racism no longer exists.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Go on Youtube and tell me it doesn't exist
I have an Anderson Silva Highlight video with over 1200 comments, a nice percentage are racially and nationality tinged.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey Black Lesnar
did you see my warning note — the one before i warned you about calling Rampage names? lemme know if that’s something you’re interested in.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Yeah, I replied to him
It’s good to go.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
There is actually much truth in that statement
Because it is so unacceptable in polite society these days. In the underclass racism (and all sorts of other predjudices) is/are very wide spread, regardless of race or even country.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea, it's a strange and sad phenomena
I WAS that kid. Growing up in really ethnically diverse areas in L.A. I couldn’t understand why people were still so bent out of shape about racism. Then I started traveling around. Spending time in New Orleans really opened my eyes a lot and they just got clearer from there.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Black people have a hand in the acceptance of racism too
The overuse of the n-word, the idolatry of the negative aspects of our culture, etc.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
They it know it doesn't exist.
The cool part about that is white kids in the ghetto seem to think everyone racist.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
In my experiences in life, largely limited to Houston, Dallas, NO and LA, as well as various suburbs and beyond, racism in wide spread, but mostly confined to the trailer parks, ghettos, barrios and similar places.
The key commonalities are poverty and lack of education. Intelligence and education are both strongly correlated to poverty, in study after study…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
What about those upper crest well taught trust fund families, those people can be some of the most racist albeit better at hiding it in the right situations.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
YES
the wealthiest suburbs of Dallas and Houston are VERY racist.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jul 23, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Royal Oaks FTW
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Have to disagree with you there, at least about Houston.
There is essentially no overt racism as we think of it in the wealthiest parts of Houston. Like in most old money havens, there is, however, a fair degree of anti-semetism. And I am sure there is plenty of closet racism even there, but if so it is not for public consumption.
The hypocracy of this used to really piss me off, but then I realized that a nice side effect of that covertness is that the younger generations see those sort of beliefs as something to be ashamed of and hidden, and therefore obviously wrong.
As a result, you really don’t see nearly as much of it even in the beliefs, much less the words of the younger generations in these sort of areas, which bodes well for the future.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
well that's because those areas are as lilly white as it gets
just let some young brothers from the 5th ward go joy riding out there and the racism becomes pretty damn overt pretty fast.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jul 23, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
True, but
I still say it comes back to class more than race. Same result in River Oaks or Tanglewood for a bunch of 5th ward boys as for a car load of mareros from the 2nd ward, piddys from Bellaire or TPT from Channelview…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 24, 2010 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions
If all of his fights looked like the Chris Leben fight — and make no mistake, he could make that happen if he wanted to — he’d be a much bigger draw. IMO.
After Leben, he destroyed 6 opponents, 4 KO’s, 2 submissions (one due to elbows). If that didn’t help his draw, then I don’t know what he was supposed to do to them.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 23, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
You can't ignore the Cote/Leites/Maia debacles.
He lost a ton of good will with those. It comes off as disrespectful to the sport and to the fans.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
Fan of: Cole Miller, Dentist Neer, Alan Belcher, Bones Jones, Frank Mir
I can ignore Cote/Leites/Maia, because I’m talking about his draw pre Cote era.
Why wasn’t he a draw between Leben and Cote?
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 23, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
American’s just might be however the fan base of NBA, Golf, and Boxing are completely different than that of MMA…
MMA’s fanbase is filled with
disaffected young white males. There’s a reason that some MMA apparel companies feature imagery derived from the Third Reich. This isn’t coincidence This is the audience.
you don’t see this type of apparel in NBA or Golf…The fan base that the UFC has tapped into is one that boxing and NBA have not.
I’m not resting until I’m officially Anderson Silva status.- Jon "Bones" Jones
he wasn't a big draw when he was destroying his foes without much effort
the language thing is the most likely reason for him not being a big draw
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Completely agree
Look at the way perceptions changed about Machida.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Machida started pullin in numbers
And he’s Brazilian and speaks little English and is blander than Anderson and was MUCH more “boring” than Anderson.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Anderson has spoken just as much English as Machida
“Do you want to see me title thot?
“The dragon is the champion”
and
“Forrest is a good guy, a good fighter, (whatever else he said)”
He also spoke after the Franklin fight and a couple others.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Anderson has had 4+ years and 12+ interviews to get his point across in English. Lyoto’s been at the top of the card for less than 2 years and 5 fights. And has managed to speak more English and show more passion on UFC broadcasts. As i said, it’s about connecting with your audience. While I would say that Anderson has more personal charisma, Dragon has done a much better job of connecting with the majority of his audience. That’s a failure on Anderson’s part.
http://www.instrength.com
Not to nitpick but this seems like an error
But few would argue that Anderson Silva is one of the top five pound for pound fighters in the world and possibly in MMA history. His string of wins is record setting; his ability to frustrate and then eviscerate opponents a thing of legend.
So very few actually think he’s one of the best but then you decide to follow up with evidence as to why he is? Or was it supposed to read that “few would argue that Anderson Silva is not one of the top…”?
i did a double take there too. he must mean that few people would argue with that proposition.
Your beliefs become your reality.
by Hardy's in your face on Jul 23, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
The english reason is BS
No one buys a PPV with the intent of watching the winner deliver a speech. The race factor is also BS give that you mention Rashad-Rampage and other high drawing guys.
However, I heartily agree on the fact that he has been so dominant that his fights are already a foregone conclusion.
Add to that the fact that the people he has been matched against haven’t exactly been draws either. Barring Franklin to a certain extent, who’s going to buy a PPV headlined by the likes of mid card fighters like Cote, Marquardt, Lutter and Maia? The hardcores may know them, but no ones really clamoring to see these guys fight. Its totally not Silva’s fault here.
As much as we love Chael talking, no one knows much about him either. Let Silva move up to LHW, put him against people like Liddell and Couture and watch the buys roll in.
by cyke on Jul 23, 2010 1:24 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You’re not factoring in emotional investment. A fighter speaking is a MAJOR thing that people tend to overlook. Anderson has a ton of personal charisma but has trouble translating that into popularity.
http://www.instrength.com
Lyoto can’t speak very good english but still receives good vibes. Neither can a lot of japanese guys who have a lot of fans. You may not like Portuguese, but i’ve never seen a person decline to buy a PPV solely because of a person’s native language.
by cyke on Jul 23, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lyoto makes the effort
That’s the big difference. The language barrier is a huge deal. Of those Japanese fighters you mention, which of them are big draws in America? That’s right none of them.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
Wandy tries
He’s constantly trying to talk to the fans in English, not in Portuguese, not through a translator. If you can’t see the difference between Wandy’s approach to speaking English and Anderson’s, then you’re completely missing the point.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
by Worldisart on Jul 23, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Again, I couldn't care less about someones english
If its such a big deal to you, did you stop watching when he was on Spike? As I said, Anderson does try. Look at my previous comment.
That's fine
You’re one potential PPV buy. People like to fell a connection to the fighters, a language barrier is a great way to sabotage that connection.
If you really don’t see the difference between Anderson’s “attempts” at speaking English relative to his countrymen and why that has an impact on his popularity, then you shouldn’t be having this conversation because YOU DON’T GET IT.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
You are just one potential buy as well. The only “connection” you need to make with someone is with what they’re saying, which can easily be done through an interpreter.
Yes, I really don’t “get” why someone whose primary purpose is to fight needs to speak in a certain way. If that’s more important to you than what’s happening in the cage, then that’s just sad.
It's not about me
It’s about the larger fan base, stop thinking small. You think reality should be one way but it’s not. People don’t connect with words from a translator, they connect with words from the mouth of a fighter. If you can’t wrap your head around this then you must be completely oblivious to the larger world around you.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
by Worldisart on Jul 23, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How can you be missing this so badly? It’s not just about fighting. Do you have favorite fighters? Why are they your favorite fighters? If you’re saying they are based SOLELY on what they do in the cage, you’re lying to yourself.
http://www.instrength.com
how can you tell someone else that they are lying to themselves for liking fighters solely on their performances? i like anderson silva for one reason. he destroys people.
by Meth Wyzzyrd on Jul 23, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm with you Cyke
I could care less but I know out of all the people in my group that watch the PPV’s there are only 3 of us that have loved him from the get go. Out of the three of us I’m the only one that is white. The other folks, they hate the fact that he doesn’t speak English and constantly state that he should either learn it or not make a living over here in the US. Stupid, I agree, but that’s the world we live in.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
That’s missing the point. I don’t think people inherently dislike him because he doesn’t speak English. It’s because they can’t make any sort of connection with him because he doesn’t speak english.
http://www.instrength.com
Hey
I’m just relaying what the other 15 people in my small group feel. They don’t like him because he doesn’t speak english. They respect his fighting ability, they will watch a PPV of his because they are MMA fans, but they don’t like him because of the fact that he doesn’t try to speak english. It’s just the way it is. Would they like him if he did? Well, it depends on his attitude. They also don’t like him now because they feel he’s to cocky and arrogant.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
Fair enough
I understand that people might feel slighted that the guy’s fought in North America for over 4 years and hasn’t put much work into his English at all. If that’s how they feel, fair enough. I was just referring to how it hamstrings his popularity from the RESULT of not speaking english. It’s all good though.
http://www.instrength.com
No
I agree with you on that point. Most people don’t consider things like that though. Out of the 20 or so folks in my group there are only three of us that think about the broader scope of fights and MMA. And these other folks aren’t casual fans, they are super hardcore fans. I think the difference is in the ages. The three of us that think alike are a bit older and of the same generation. The other folks are younger and don’t have the same thought process yet.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
It’s a subtle thing though, it’s not something a lot of people think about unless it’s directly addressed to them. Asking people “Who are your favorite fighters” and “Why are they” leads a lot of people to discover things they didn’t even realize.
I absolutely agree with the age thing though – that’s why I asked cyke earlier how old he was. I guess I shouldn’t hold people to the same standards I hold myself if they don’t have the life experience to sort it out for themselves. Not a knock on them, just a fact of life.
http://www.instrength.com
Yeah exactly
There’s not much gray area for a 20 something most of the time. Just as for me there’s not as much of a gray area as a 55 year old or something like that.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
Key word: Making the connection
THat’s not out of hate; that’s unwillingness by:
1.) Anderson to attempt English
2.) Americans preference towards everyone using English to communicate in the U.S.
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Jul 23, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd hard
Wandy’s interviews allow for a more direct emotional connection, like Beer Monster was saying. It’s not just about liking a fighter for winning, it’s liking who that fighter is outside the cage.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
Machida isn’t a great draw either though. At least his “DA DWAGON IS DA CHAMPYON!” earned him some fans. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the language itself. Portuguese is like any other language. The problem, as I said, is that a lot of people can’t get behind him just for what he does in the cage. They need to emotionally connect with him. It sounds lame, but it’s true. Sure, no one’s ever come out and said “I ain’t buyin dat cuz he don’t speaka the english”. It’s a lot more subtle than that. But it’s pretty obvious that a lot of people DON’T buy cards he’s on. This is one reason why.
http://www.instrength.com
Heard Chuck talk lately?
That slurred stuff hardly sounds like proper english to me. So why are you bagging on other folk?
The point is that someone speaking differently, when their primary purpose is to fight should not be of any importance.
No the point is that regardless of what should or shouldn't be, it is.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
That does not make anyone want to buy a fight though
Every great boxing champion had a personality:
Ali
Sugar Ray
Mayweather
That’s what makes champions marketable to the most casual of fans.
UFC is still a growing sport and it’s fighters have to engage the fans who not only can appreciate the fight itself (as you seem to be), but also the fan who might not know much about the sport or it’s fighters, but is looking to be entertained.
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Jul 23, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Chuck's native language is English
He didn’t have to put in hours upon hours of work to speak basic English (which, by the way, is really effing hard for someone to learn as a second language) which Lyoto did. I can attest to the room full of people who heard is victory speech, with the elated, “Thank you Joe Rogan!!!!” and on the spot became fans.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
by woomikee on Jul 23, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
True.
There is always going to be a need for a fan to feel some form of assimilation from the ambassadors of any sport. They need to feel a connection to the fighters.
That’s why TUF is a great marketing tool for up & coming fighters of UFC.
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Jul 23, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Gives them persona, correct?
Hero or Villian…
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Jul 23, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes!
It gives them a persona.
It makes a person either like the character…
… Or, in the case of Junie, dislike him because of his antics!
Ask yourself how did you feel about Junie after his season on TUF?
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Jul 23, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Even in speaking poorly, you still display some emotion and personality
I don’t care how bad his english is, you’d have to be made of stone to not like Machida a little more after hearing his speech after he won the title. Everything from him declaring that “you can do anything if you believe in it” to thanking Joe Rogan, he came across as very likable. Don’t underestimate how much that means to the average fan.
Anderson does try
Remember the ladies and gentleman thanks for coming, I like to make fight speech?
Shogun’s english is a work in progress as well.
Shogun is working on it diligently.
He’s studying English during his recovery from this knee surgery. He’s getting there.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Are you his tutor or something?
So are you going to buy his next fight based on his “english homework” progress or for what he can do with his knees when he recovers?
I couldn’t care what he has to say. I just want to watch him fight.
Whoa, easy on the hostility...
I’m repeating what he told me. And I’ll buy tickets or the PPV for his next fight because he’s a fantastic fighter and a great person.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
You're really missing the point
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
The only point is that the “english” argument is a red herring. If you want to see someone fight, do it. But to boycott someone because they speak a different language is just absurd.
It's not a boycott
Don’t be so dense and stop painting them as an us against them argument. Anderson wants to build a fan base? He wants to make a connection with North American fans? Doing small things like at least attempting to give an interview in English goes a long way to building the good will with the fans that will translate into PPV buys.
Most people who are fans of this sport, particularly the casual fan base where most of the sports revenue comes from, follow fighters and not fights. Speaking more english will make Anderson more fans. That’s the way it works in North America. It’s an unassailable truth about the nature of celebrity in America.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
If you're so hung up on celebrity, follow Lindsay Lohan
If fans want to talk to him, his translator is always there. It’s not like Anderson runs an 800 number for people to call him.
Show me one person who after the Franklin KOs said they didn’t want to see Anderson fight because he didn’t speak in english?
Its the fight and performance that matters. Not made up stuff like interview languages.
This isn't about me
Stop making personal attacks, or at least if you’re going to do that, come up with something remotely clever.
You’re obviously completely oblivious to the world you live in, and the nature of the fans of the sport you follow. Any further conversation with you about this is a waste of my time. You don’t get it, despite a bevy of reasonable responses by multiple community members pointing out the failure of your argument.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
So someone disagrees with you and you start tossing insults?
What? You’re argument is the singular perspective possible. They aren’t talking about themselves, they are talking about people as a whole. If you cannot understand that when it’s been said 5 times already, then you’re incredibly dense and just looking for a fight.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on Jul 23, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
No personal attacks please. Only warning. Sensitive subject, but let’s handle it intelligently.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You're just not getting it.
I already posted this below, but I’ll do a snippet here: The ability to relate to a person is huge. That’s why politicians do stupid shit like go hunting when they’ve never gone hunting in their lives, or put on a farmer shirt and pretend to pitch some hay. People eat that shit up.
You may not care about celebrity culture, but all those tabloid rags and gossip blogs that people flock to say otherwise. It’s how you play “the game” and Silva doesn’t play it. It is separate from performance. I don’t know what world you live in.
by pud333 on Jul 23, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Look at what The Ultimate Fighter did for the UFC
A lot of people don’t just want to see the fights, they want to like or dislike fighters because of who they are as people, not just as fighters. if you don’t english, how are you making a connection with the fans?
Good article. The racism thing is something I didn’t really consider since I don’t really know anyone that likes or dislikes a fighter based on his skin colour, but I guess it’s a factor in some places.
I think my next question would be – so why isn’t Rich Franklin a draw then? : )
http://www.instrength.com
He's boring.
Reminds you of a soccer dad.
Not much flare and not as flashy as some other fighters.
Still a great fighter though.
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Jul 23, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
he looks like Jim Carey :p
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I posted this below
But Franklin had some high profile losses right as the sport was taking off. He’s been fighting opponents that are hardcore friendly but not mainstream friendly and doing stuff like catchweight fights which keeps him out of title contention and out of people’s minds
Am I the only one who up until this moment has never really considered or thought about Anderson Silva actually being ‘black’? It’s weird, I’ve always just thought of him as being ‘Brazilian’
Those were my thoughts as well. I didn’t think of Maia/Silva as White vs Black, tho thats what their skin color would suggest. I thought it was two Brazilians fighting.
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
by PapaBumpants on Jul 23, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
But....
I’m sure most people did see it as black vs white. People can deny racism all they want but it’s there. They can say oh look at Kobe, Lebron etc……………NBA is mostly dominated by black athletes but in MMA that is not the case so for someone to say race plays little into this is in complete denial.
I wouldn’t say most people saw it that way. I don’t think most people are that dumb.
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
by PapaBumpants on Jul 23, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly what I thought as well. I figured either he was of mixed ancestry or spent more time in the sun then his fellow Brazilians.
Race doesn’t matter, and neither does country of origin. Fans chant USA, GSP, BJ, Randy etc because they are easy to chant – that’s it. Unfortunately, Silva’s recent showings led to them chanting GSP or profanity.
"I'd love to be a Cheick Kongo looking brother that could actually move and do a lot of funky stuff - Jiu Jitsu, takedowns, kicks and stuff." - Jon Jones.
"This is the internet: you either have soul-stopping power or you’re a pillow-fisted pansy. There is no middle ground." - woomikee
lol spent more time in the sun.......
You are really a bright guy….SMH. Race plays a factor so stop denying it dude. The only reason Page vs Evans sold was because of all the trash talk and page making his “Uncle Tom” comments with the WHOLE BLACK ON BLACK corny shit that people ate up. RACE may not play a entire factor but to say it doesn’t is just stupid.
TBH I didnt think he was black I was pretty sure he was just dark skinned like many of my south american friends
seriously you guys
how is this not black?
dark skinned? wtf, as a black guy (and Brazilian), this is so annoying to hear, just saying…
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
serious question here...
I was under the impression that “black” was only a skin color… and “African” or “African American” related to contry of origin.
My question is, does the term “african american” only refer to people of african decent that are “american” (United States) or would Anderson fall into this category as he is from (Brazil) south america.
Seems like iv hear people before say, “the black Silva (Anderson) is the best” and someone else would say “he’s not black, he’s brazilian”. But I wold say he IS black obviously, but i didnt know if he would be considered “African American”.
This may be a stupid question but i was just curious.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Jul 23, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
African American is only Americans of African descent.
Silva is a Black Brazilian.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks!
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Jul 23, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
he's black
and Brazilian :p
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Sick of the race card
Frankly, I’m sick to death of the race. Something is not going right for a black, of course it’s a racial issue. As pointed above, many black athletes have been hugely popular.
The post is correct about the English language problem. Fans at least want to see a fighter try to speak English, particularly an older guy like Silva who has spent many years fighting in this country. Jose Aldo didn’t speak English, but he’s a kid and a new champion so people will give him a break. But with Silva it seems like he just doesn’t care. It’s like he’s disrespecting people.
by pwdminotauro on Jul 23, 2010 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Do you really buy PPV's to watch the guys give speeches?
How can they disrespect you when they’re out there fighting?
GSP
GSP has said it was very important to his career to learn to speak English.
by pwdminotauro on Jul 23, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d rather see a foreign fighter speak his native and have it translated than hear:
Joe Rogan: Can you walk us through what happened here
Foreign Guy: I WANT THANK UFC. I TRAIN VER’ HARD. THANK YOU. turns away to leave
What do you have against Matt Hamill?
Resident Capologist
by clrkaitken on Jul 23, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Race is an interesing factor
Rashad and Rampage drew pretty well, so hard to blame Silva’s lack of popularity on race alone.
On the other hand, this is the sport where the nazi clothing company was sponsoring UFC fighters. I mean – NAZI CLOTHING COMPANY. Seriously.
So it is maybe one factor among many. Perhaps it is a slight disadvantage that can be overcome with personality (which Silva also does not have going for him).
As pointed above, many black athletes have been hugely popular.
What did they all have in common? They were all American. A black foreigner who doesn’t speak English will NOT be popular in this country. Not for now at least.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jul 23, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
#4 weakness of opponents
Leites? Maia? Cote? Sonnen?
Seriously? Who wants to see any of these fights?
If Anderson Silva was up at 205 lbs, it would help his draw.
And I don't have anything against some of those fighters
But there were not legitimate opponents for Silva.
Chuck drew with weak opponents
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Randleman, Overeem, Ortiz x’s 2, Couture, Babalu x’s 2, Vitor, Wandy
such an unimpressive resume. yup totally weak.
by the way, those were just his wins
"she told me she was on the pill." me
I think what he is saying is that
even when Chuck was fighting guy who weren’t really big draws or even very credible, Chuck would still draw numbers.
Vernon White, for instance.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
This
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh, he never fought Vitor on PPV, it was Fox.
Overeem was in PRIDE.
Ortiz was a big name, clearly I’m not talking about him. Couture as well.
Babalu was a weak opponent. Who was Babalu before those fights? Exactly.
Wand isn’t a weak name.
Vernon White, Jeremy Horn, Babalu X 2, weak names and he still drew.
Anderson fought Leben, Franklin, Hendo didn’t draw. Those were strong names.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
umm ?
But few would argue that Anderson Silva is one of the top five pound for pound fighters in the world and possibly in MMA history.
Have people gone retarted?
Last time I retarted something it did not taste as good as I thought.
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
by SSreporters on Jul 23, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
For me, it started with the Cote fight. Not necessarily AS’s fault, but it left me with a bad taste in my mouth. (insert internet humor here). My irritation with Anderson became tangible in the Thales Leites fight while screaming at the TV for a finish. I very wary of AS’s fight with Forrest, but still excited. :30 seconds in and I’m back to being a Silva fan. Then the Maia fight…..
The American public likes very much when a product they are excited about delivers on what is promised. However, their reaction will steer negative when they feel they did not get their money’s worth. Cote, Leites, Maia, were three fights in recent memory when Anderson failed to meet high expectations. And I for one, am reluctant to round up a bunch of people for a PPV to watch Silva dance around like a tool.
You are all UFC plants.
What Trash.....
How can you say race is an issue when, as you pointed out in your article, 2 black men heading a card just sold over a million PPVs?
The list should be like this……
1. Performance
2. Performance
3. Performance
I don’t care if you are purple, speak Sweedish, and are from the planet Zolton, if you are making highlight reel KOs Americans will LOVE to watch you fight. PEROID. Get over the whole race thing. O M G.
Hasn’t Silva been handing out highlight reel beatdowns? As has been pointed out repeatedly, his numbers were low even before Cote, Leites, and Maia.
As for race, using Rampage/Rashad as an example of how it’s not a factor is wrongheaded. Those two had a full season of TUF to build up (fake?) hatred. How did they draw in other fights? And race is such a sensitive issue, that people go nuts if it’s ever brought up. Snowden wrote it was ONE of the factors, not the ONLY factor.
Rampage and Rashad always draw well....
There is no evidence that the color of Anderson’s skin effects his PPV buyrate. When you come up with some, let me know please.
This isn’t true. Both have been passable. UFC 114 was either an aberration or a step in the right direction.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
What about your original point?
That performance is all that matters? Was Silva drawing huge numbers when he was beating down Leben, Franklin, Marquardt, Henderson, etc.? The whole POINT of the article was explaining why Silva wasn’t popular despite his HIGH PERFORMANCE.
As for evidence that Anderson’s skin color affects his PPV buy rate, Snowden (and other commenters here) already laid out the case. If what you’re looking for is a peer-reviewed study into this issue, sorry, you’re not going to get it.
I didn't forget him
I didn’t include him because he doesn’t fit. He has main-vented a few duds and despite being a long running champ, his biggest cards have also featured GSP or Anderson Silva.
More BS
Rashad and Rampage’s ONE draw is a) the exception that proves the rule and b) the result of a lot of targeting marketing with racial tinge
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I couldn't disagree more....
I thought it was a horrible article, full of BS. I’m tired of the race card. REALLY tired.
The other 2 points were stupid too......
By default more people are going to like you if you are from the same country they are from. That’s just human nature. Does it make fans “hate” Anderson Silva? I dobut it.
I’m sticking to my guns on this one, if Anderson was a KOing machine, and he was killing guys that people knew, he’d be a huge draw. His last 4 fights is why ppl don’t want to watch him fight. I know he killed Rich, but Rich was VERY popular, so that got him off on the wrong foot right there. That might be the single reason most casual MMA fans “Hate” him.
No. It has nothing to do with “being from the same country”. Anderson WAS killing guys until Cote, and still didn’t draw. Explain that. He KO’d Rich Franklin twice and beat Dan Henderson. Big names. Nothing. The argument holds no weight. Things might have changed for the worse since then, but the fact that he didn’t draw beforehand negates the idea that this stuff is the main reason.
http://www.instrength.com
So, four fights of "no KO-reel highlights" make him unimpressive?
How many MORE has he handed out in his career?
And the “country” thing is no different than race being that you are substituting “culture” for race.
Ask yourself this, when Griffin went against— then champion— Jackson who was the crowd pulling for?
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Jul 23, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Only, you know... you're totally wrong
if Anderson was a KOing machine, and he was killing guys that people knew, he’d be a huge draw.
When Anderson was doing EXACTLY this he still couldn’t draw.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Ignorance is bliss
You can pretend all you want that it isn’t a legitimate argument, that we’ve come so far as a society that the mere mention of race as part of an argument is ugly and unnecessary, but that’s ignoring the reality of the larger world around you.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
by Worldisart on Jul 23, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
The race card is something I don't agree with here
But it still wreaks havoc on sports and many other areas of life.
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
Totally agree.
Especially on the attitude and effort. I think some people underestimate just how important it is for fans to be able to relate or associate with their fighters. Anderson Silva saying “thanks everyone!” is completely different than, let’s say, someone like Lyoto Machida, who is clearly working hard to win the fans over. Remember when he won the belt, and he had that whole “If you have a dream in your life, go hard, it’s possible!” (or something like that) I mean, c’mon, what’s not to love about that? It’s completely different than Ed Soares saying, “Meh. A fight’s a fight. Shit happens. Can’t please everyone” (again, paraphrasing). The ability to relate to a person is huge. That’s why politicians do stupid shit like go hunting when they’ve never gone hunting in their lives, or put on a farmer shirt and pretend to pitch some hay. People eat that shit up.
As for the quality of opponents, c’mon. If you’re a superstar, you draw regardless. Take a look at GSP who did gangbusters against Hardy of all people. Are you telling me people really felt Hardy was a threat? People come to see the superstars. It’s the difference between being a great fighter and a superstar. Same with movie stars or other atheletes. Those that play the “game” get the fans. Silva doesn’t play the game, nor do I think he even cares. Thus, if he doesn’t give a shit, why should fans?
Be tired of it.........
It’s REAL……..people now days want to act so BLIND to the fact the racism still is a factor. I’m sick of people like you who think the shit just was swept under a rug.
by Pimp_man on Jul 23, 2010 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
i think that the fact that ed soares does the talking for anderson is more of a factor than him not speaking english. alot of people don’t like ed soares myself included.
but i don’t think that has as much to do with his ppv numbers as the quality of opponents does. going into his fights with mediocre opponents it’s painfully obvious that he is going to win. henderson was the last man he fought who a significant portion of the public believed could beat anderson.
by Johnathan Willis on Jul 23, 2010 1:47 PM EDT reply actions
More BS
What fan knows who the fuck Soares is?
I bet 70% don’t even know he’s Anderson’s manager.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
He conceded that it had no effect on pay per views. You don’t have to call it BS.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jul 23, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
He said "As much to do with" meaning he still attributes it to PPV buys
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
snowden you're an ignorant moron
wow….that’s just stupid….this guy makes basically zero points to prove there’s a race issue in mma….so waht if a clothing company with third reich logos came about….that either means 1 guy (the creator of this line) is a racist or maybe he’s one of those ppl that aren’t racist at all but love war memorabilia…has nothing to do with mma. Tot his point a few years ago taht store ZARA was marketing a hand bag that had the swast*ka symbol on it and barely caught flak, they just pulled the bags….does that mean the entire clothing industry is racist? Same comaprison no?
And also he has to realize that traditionally martial artists have been of asian descent or come from amateur wrestling backgrounds….and most werestling powerhouse colleges happen to me south and midwest schools…areas that are predominantly caucasian.
It’s an argument so full of fallacy and incredibly easy to tear apart…..and if mma was that racist the tuf season with rashad and rampage and KIMBO would not have had the best ratings since season 3! And their ppv wouldn’t be in the top 5 buyrates ever (I think top 5…def top 10)
Banning trolls is like playing whack-a-mole
You ban one and then 5-6 keep popping up.
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
Calling someone an ignorant moron, regardless of the intelligence of you argument, is trolling. He’s looking for a fight.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
I agree that name calling is unacceptable I think it’s funny that lately it seems like this only applies to the writers of this site but that’s beside the point, Snowden since you’ve been writing on BE I’ve seen more disagreement and controversy then ever here but you haven’t changed any bit of your writing style because of it and I wouldn’t call you a troll for the fights and endless debates that are incited by your articles. Again I totally agree the name calling is unacceptable and realistically had he not called you a moron he probably would have gotten his point across.
Personally
I find it less offensive to have someone calling another a “moron” than it is to tell another to “jump in front of a truck”.
Here's a professional suggestion:
When entering debate or discourse with someone, you might not want to start off with “you’re an ignorant moron.” I mean really. Do you talk like this in real life?
African Americans have always been into Martial Arts
Have you not seen any 70’s movies where all black people did was run around doing karate
see black dynamite
I’m not resting until I’m officially Anderson Silva status.- Jon "Bones" Jones
Hell yeah
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Has he never heard of the Wu Tang Clan?
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jul 23, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Watch yo step, watch yo step
PROTECT YO NECK
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Two factors that I haven't seen mentioned, except obliquely, is ...
1. The Anderson Silva narrative
2. The quality of Silva’s opponents
First, there was no story about Silva going in to the UFC from Pride. It’s not like he was killing people in Pride like Wanderlei or CroCop was. And he doesn’t have the charisma or the highlight reel that Rampage had. Anderson just arrived, KO’d Leben, KO’d Franklin, and was the champ. Now, if he spoke English, it would have let his personality speak for itself, and would have made it easier for fans to conceptualize him. Similarly, if his personality were consistent, it would have been easier to get a bead on him; but it’s not (bowing to people, acting all humble, but then mocking his opponents in the ring, giving conflicting stories about his motives, etc.). Sure, you could say that his personality is “mercurial” but that doesn’t draw people in.
Now, you could wonder, “but shouldn’t his initial, devastating wins have made him popular?” No (and this gets to the second factor), because his initial victims didn’t loom very large in the casual fan’s imagination. Leben was well-liked, but it wasn’t considered that shocking that he was beaten. Franklin, as has been noted before, wasn’t popular. His next opponents after that were: Lutter, Marquardt, Franklin, Henderson (not a big draw, right?), and Irvin. He beat all these people convincingly, but people hadn’t heard of them, so it didn’t make him popular. After that, he beat Cote and Leites in weird and boring fashion. That actually turned off some people. Sure, after that he crushed Forrest, a super-popular fighter, but by that point the perception of Silva was already pretty solidified. There was only so much a win over Forrest could do to change that. And then when he put on the Maia fight, he alienated people once again.
by PlantingaFan on Jul 23, 2010 1:55 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
Well, at the time I wrote this comment...
I hadn’t seen the factors explicitly mentioned. But then 40+ comments were added in the few minutes I took to write the comment.
by PlantingaFan on Jul 23, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Your narrative point stands, though
Fans don’t feel like they “know” Anderson. Stupid as it sounds, fans need that.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
Anderson didn't come from PRIDE
He came from other organizations.
Fans weren’t shocked that Leben was beat? Are you kidding? Leben was on a tear in teh UFC and with the win would’ve gotten a title shot. And Franklin was fresh of TUF and a top face in teh company.
Tyson’s opponents in his buildup weren’t the best either.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Late response
Wow, I go to IKEA and this place adds 600 comments!
Anyway, Anderson fought in PRIDE 5 times, which is more than he fought for any other organization (besides the UFC). But he also fought in other organizations, and the one for which he most recently fought before joining the UFC was Cage Rage. So in one sense you’re right that he didn’t (directly) come from PRIDE, but I still think it’s valid to say he was a PRIDE fighter.
As for fans being shocked about Leben’s being beat, I don’t recall the general sentiment of fans after Silva fought. Were people super shocked? (I honestly don’t remember that, but my memory has failed me before…) The thing is, Leben lost on TUF, so it couldn’t have been too surprising that he lost, tear or not. (Admittedly, the fashion in which he lost was surprising.)
As for Franklin being the top face in the company, doesn’t this contradict the data Snowden repeatedly brought up about Franklin not being a draw?
As for Tyson’s opponents, sure they weren’t the best, but again, remember, it’s not just that Silva didn’t beat the greatest opponents, it’s also that fans couldn’t build much of a narrative from him. With Tyson, not only do you have the rough upbringing and the squeaky voice, you have the manner in which he destroyed soooo many boxers, many of them good, which helped to create an in-fight narrative. Finally, it’s also par for the course in boxing that good fighters fight lots of no-names, so fans were used to that.
by PlantingaFan on Jul 23, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Anderson hadn't fought for Pride in 2 years, he was a journeyman fighter with 5 out of 20 fights in Pride
People forgot about the Leben TUF losses and they were “fluky” in the eyes of most fans as the “hated” Koscheck just laid on him and Florian caught him with a “lucky” elbow. Leben had been on a tear since then and was the betting favorite.
Franklin was a top face (meaning visibility, not draw).
Anderson created the same in-fight narrative that Tyson did.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
What's your definition of journeyman?
I usually agree with your comments but I REALLY disagree here. Maybe you are using the word differently.
Journeyman is a good, hard working fighter who can hang around and maybe even stick around in the UFC, but never crack the top 10, or certainly not the top 5. I’d call Chris Leben a journeyman (maybe I underrate him, but you get the idea.
Journeyman comes from the middle-ages guild systmen. You knew the trade, could work on your own more or less (so you weren’t an apprentice) but you weren’t a “master.”
Anderson beat Sakuri, Jeremy Horn, Carlos Newton, a highly touted Lee Murray and KTFO of Frunkland w/ a upwards elbow – freaking insane! Anderson was FAR more than a “journeyman.”
Yeah I don't mean journeyman as in skills
I mean he took fights wherever he could get them and didn’t call one promotion “home” until the UFC.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 24, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Personally
I thought he looked a bit odd when I first saw him to tell you the truth but when I saw the way he fought against Leben he was automatically my favorite fighter. Lately his arrogance and cockiness has turned me off a bit but he’s still my favorite fighter because of the way he fights.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
huh
I dont see race or nationality being the reason. It is mainly attitude.
The NBA has been majority black for a long time time yet has done well ratings wise or “drawing power”. Problem now is the attitude of the “star” players.
Silvas attitude just, i don’t know its hard to explain. He acts humble one minute then pulls that crap against Maia.
Its one thing to be confident, its another thing to be so arrogant that you toy around the way he has recently in the ring. That is why people are turned off by him. At least myself and a few friends are.
As has been pointed out
He couldn’t draw before this string of “odd” performances. Those fights aren’t the reason for this problem, although they certainly don’t help.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
I think its just some fighters can draw, some can’t. I don’t know why race has to be involved in a sport that is as global as it is.
There are reasons
Why some fighters can draw and some can’t. It’s not just a simple hmmm and haw kind of argument. And race is an issue. To ignore it is ignorant. When you’re making your money off the American audience, race is going to be a factor.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
No
Thats just ignorant in itself saying that since its america, race is going to be a factor.
People making issues out of non issues is a problem. Race in MMA is not a problem.
The color blind society
It doesn’t exist. Race will be an issue in any situation where there are people of multiple racial backgrounds. It’s become taboo in our society to talk about it, but it exists and ignoring it doesn’t make it go away. So you can choose to ignore it, but don’t pretend like it doesn’t exist.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
by Worldisart on Jul 23, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This type of racism is exactly the type you would have to ignore. So racists won’t buy PPVs headed by a black guy? What’s the solution? Have non-racists buy the PPV twice to make up for it? Make people take racial awareness tests before buying the PPV.
The white fighters who are popular might be helped by racist fans. But its not like they are actively trying to attract that fanbase.
The only bad guys in the situation would be the racists themselves, and you aren’t going to convince them to change.
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
by PapaBumpants on Jul 23, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Snowden isn't trying to solve the world's problems
He’s merely pointing out things that may or may not be a factor in Anderson’s inability to draw fans.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
You're right
And I actually agree with your “So you can choose to ignore it, but don’t pretend like it doesn’t exist” statement. I just wanted to point out, that it is probably a good solution to actually do so.
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
by PapaBumpants on Jul 23, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
This article is beyond horrible
If you would have written an article purely about #3 then that would have been fine but nationality and race? Come on dude.
“Mixed Martial Arts is still a sport dominated by Caucasians…At UFC 117 there is exactly one fighter on the main card of African descent”
There is one fighter of African descent on the main card, but every fight on the main card has a non-Caucasian in it. As a whole the card has 8 non-Caucasians.
This article is especially ridiculous since everyone was all about Silva until he started showing his arrogant and random fighting style, it had nothing to do with him being of African descent or the fact he spoke Portuguese. Horrible article.
“There’s a reason that some MMA apparel companies feature imagery derived from the Third Reich. This isn’t coincidence This is the audience.”
Dude what are you smoking? You make it seem like there is this huge Aryan brotherhood audience that watches MMA and has made Hoelzer Reich a huge name, when in reality its a walking punch line. Have you ever gone to a show and saw someone in the audience wearing one of those shirts?
by Portland Raider fan on Jul 23, 2010 2:01 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Who’s talking about Hoelzer Reich? Lots of MMA apparel companies are chock full of t-shirts with Nazi imagery.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Like what other companies? What big name fighters are repping Nazi symbols? I’m seriously asking, I would rather look at a pile of vomit then most MMA clothing because it is so incredibly hideous.
by Portland Raider fan on Jul 23, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Silver Star springs immediately to mind.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Damn, beat me to it.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Sweet Irony
So Silver Star is a company that uses Nazi imagery to placate all the Aryans that watch MMA yet they sponsor fighters like Rashad Evans, Bones Jones, and last but least ANDERSON SILVA.
by Portland Raider fan on Jul 23, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Well played my friend...well played
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
by PapaBumpants on Jul 23, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
he's conflating two unrelated issues
and putting up a straw man argument
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
no one is ssaying silver star is racist
we’re saying they’re cynics who are willing to exploit nazi imagery for financial gain.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
How is this unrelated?
“There’s a reason that some MMA apparel companies feature imagery derived from the Third Reich. This isn’t coincidence This is the audience.”
I’m just saying its pretty ironic that they’re doing it for this “audience” and yet they sponsor all kinds of Non-Caucasians.
by Portland Raider fan on Jul 23, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
because they're playing both sides of the street
getting everyone’s money
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Tommy Hilfiger notedly said on Oprah that he didn't make his clothes to be worn by Blacks in the ghetto
Yet had a targeted marketing towards them and used Black models.
People will make money off people they dispise.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Tommy Hilfiger notedly said on Oprah that he didn’t make his clothes to be worn by Blacks in the ghetto
No, he didn’t:
http://www.snopes.com/racial/business/hilfiger.asp
Hilfiger had never even appeared on Oprah when this rumor first popped up.
Ah ok, scratch Tommy Hilfiger
and substitute in any number of known prejudiced people that marketed/market to minorities.
It’s capitalism.
Ok, the Cristal guy said something similar. That I know to be true.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough, wasn’t trying to act like that doesn’t happen just that this particular myth about Hilfiger is completely false and has probably cost him millions in sales over the years.
You're right
Shamed of myself for repeating that.
His clothes were meh anyway, too much red white and blue.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I've noticed Silver Star flirt with questionable lightning bolts, eagles in specific poses, and some interesting looking crosses.
They aren’t white supremacists, but they play off the imagery.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
So this is just one big White Supremacist conspiracy then?
by Portland Raider fan on Jul 23, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
no it's cynical manipulation of dangerous imagry
for profit
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jul 23, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can't believe how much of a pass they get.
Just because it isn’t as obvious as Hoelzer Reich doesn’t mean it’s not pretty obvious.
And I can attest to the fact that the owners of Silver Star are NOT above doing this intentionally.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I’d like to know how you feel about my main point though, you state that there is only one person of African descent on the card but there is a non-Caucasian in every main card fight.
by Portland Raider fan on Jul 23, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot of the dudes you are calling "non-Caucasian"
are, in fact, Caucasian.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah and in American History X the skinheads played basketball
So there’s obviously a major race issue in basketball
You realize that Brazilian is a nationality and not a race, right?
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that Silva needs an image change. To start off, he hasn’t fought what the general public has considered to be credible opponents recently, and to make matters worse he didn’t finish them off, diminishing himself in the process. What he needs to do is knock out Chael and then stand in the middle of the ring and declare he’ll take on anyone in any weight class. Then maybe some interesting bouts can get made at LHW or HW. If you don’t think the champion will lose, why buy the card?
In the end, all your friends and family let you down and you die in your own arms, so who cares?
Forrest Griffin not credible?
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think fans hate Anderson Silva but
1.) He’s never seriously been in trouble in his entire UFC career. No adversity at all. Basically you never get the impression that he could be beaten like Fedor, who has been suplexed, caught in submission attempts, etc. Dancing around with Maia just makes things worse because he probably knows it and is being cocky.
2.) The middleweight division in the UFC has the least depth, and several of the most recent contenders are not exactly striking gods. Maia, Leites, and Sonnen don’t exactly pose a threat standing up, which is Silva’s strength, and the other two could do absolutely nothing on the ground.
Even if (when) Silva destroys Sonnen there is only Belfort who could possibly beat him at 185. After that I can only see challenges at 205, which is arguably the UFC’s deepest and most talented division.
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
He was mounted by Lutter and punched.
He was taken down by Hendo.
He’s seen some trouble.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Taken down by Hendo does not mean you're in trouble
Lutter did not land any significant strikes in full mount.
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
Seriously
I have liked most of your recent articles Snowden, but when you talk about racial make-up of the sport you sound like Bob Arum, or someone on the outside who is writing about a sport they don’t actually follow.
by Portland Raider fan on Jul 23, 2010 2:06 PM EDT reply actions
I follow the sport and hey true is true...
When Anderson was getting Beer cans thrown at him after beating forrest that should tell you something…
I’m not resting until I’m officially Anderson Silva status.- Jon "Bones" Jones
No one brings shit like that up
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Where is that?
Ive searched google to find an article or maybe video of the beer can tossing, but nothing pops up. It did say people tossed beer cans at him in england after the lee murray fight, because of the whole flag thing.
I hate to be a pain in the ass
(actually, I love it but that’s beside the point) but this:
We know Silva doesn’t draw.
remains unproven. You showed yesterday that cards Silva are on don’t draw as much as average. It’s a fallacious to directly connect Silva being on the card with the card not drawing as much. That you haven’t proven at all.
And for a piece like this, you can’t even say that fans actually hate Silva. They simply don’t watch him as often as other fighters, which may or may not even be related to Anderson Silva himself.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
I will put this nicely: if cards Silva headlines don’t draw, Silva doesn’t draw. Period. People were asking “why.” These are my suggestions.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
That may be nice
but it’s also unproven. Besides the fact that you’ve used two data points (Franklin and Silva) to establish a trend, the way you’re evaluating the cards is simplistic and inconclusive.
My suggestion is that you don’t understand what variables are involved in PPV draws. Your position seems to be that ONLY the main event (and really only one fighter of that main event) determines the PPV draw. Doesn’t that strike you as overly simplistic?
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
And yet we see over and over again that cards headlined by certain fighters do well, those headlined by others do a mediocre number, while a handful of fighters do consistently poor numbers. What variables do you suggest apply just to Anderson Silva cards? He has a large enough sample that things are likely to even out.
Are you not comfortable saying any UFC fighter is a better draw than another? If not, why should anyone bother discussing anything with you?
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Look, I'll back off
since it’s obvious that you are hostile to people with differing opinions. As I said yesterday, I don’t disagree with the conclusion. I just recognize your inability to properly analyze statistics.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
Sure. No causation. Just 8-10 coincidences. No conclusions to draw.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
^^^^
What Johnathon said.
If you’re going to have a discussion about it, it’s silly not draw conclusions.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
XKCD to the rescue
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
by azruavatar on Jul 23, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Very nice
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 23, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
When subo is supporting your posts you know things have gotten bad for you.
Correlation is necessary for causation. I’m not sure what you are trying to say, but it makes you look like someone with a wikipedia level understanding of the world.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Correlation is necessary for causation
but it isn’t SUFFICIENT for causation and that’s what you fail to grasp.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
Also,
it amazes me that it’s kosher for a front page writer to come and talk shit like this to commenters. It’s unbecoming for BE. I’ve been reading the site for quite some time and you’re the only one who responds with vitriol and condescension.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
by azruavatar on Jul 23, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I don’t think he’s talking shit, he’s defending his point. You’ve commented 9 times now. Just agree to disagree.
http://www.instrength.com
it makes you look like someone with a wikipedia level understanding of the world.
My bad, I guess that wasn’t a personal attack then?
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
by azruavatar on Jul 23, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I'm not sure I understand this comment
but, more importantly, there’s no way a discussion like this goes well in the comment section. I sent you an e-mail.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
I agree thats it unprofessional for writers to speak like that in the comment section of their own posts…..
BUT…..
It must be very hard not to get a little saucy when there are 300 comments nit-picking every detail of your work. and yes, yes, i know “thats what comment sections are for” but we’re all human and defending yourself and your work is human nature.
I caught myself being pretty nit-picky around the time ofthe post 116 Snowden posts, then he put out some articles that were just PURE GOLD the next week or so… so i realized I was being a bit of a dick, critiquing every detail of a post.
Someone told me then that the comments section was for nit-picking the articles… but I disagree. Its here to comment and discuss, not grade the damn thing like its and english or philosophy paper.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Jul 23, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Snowden's responsible for his own image
management. If he wants to get down and dirty with the hoi polloi that’s on him. Myself, I’m above all that…and all of you.
/jk
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jul 23, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I take it as a compliment.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 23, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course I grasp that. But looking carefully at the cards I can’t think of other factors that explain why cards with Silva on them don’t draw. They are similar to all other UFC cards, with the exception of Silva being the fighter in the main event.
UFC main eventers are like movie stars. They are responsible for the success or failure of the enterprise. That’s why they get the big checks.
If you are going to insist there isn’t causation, I’d like to see you provide some variables you think might be responsible.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
co-main event, title fights, time since last PPV, advertising $$$ spent, etc.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
Those are similar across the board. Provide some evidence or knock it off.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Summary conclusion without evidence
is what you are providing.
And knock what off? Asking questions? Having a different opinion? I’m not the one launching personal attacks here you are. I’m suggesting that you may be missing points or not considering all the variables and I’m told to knock it off?
Whatever.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
by azruavatar on Jul 23, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Demonstrate those variables are different for Silva than they are for other fighters. I’ve looked at the cards carefully. If you can’t come up with some specific variables you want to discuss you aren’t seriously engaging.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel for you Jonathon
I don’t always agree with you but I don’t know why you should have to put up with crap like this. People like this are just looking for a fight, it wouldn’t matter what you wrote.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
I’ve put chips on the table. I’m not being shouted down by someone who won’t make the effort to make a real case.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
this
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Jul 23, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair
YOU are the one making the positive claim. The onus is then on YOU to support the claim when it comes into question.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
You don't have an opion
You’ve done nothing but nitpik at Snowden’s reasoning without providing an opinion of your own. You’re just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. Don’t insult all of our intelligence by pretending like you’re saying anything of substance, and doing anything less than trying to pick a fight.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
I'm questioning the validity of his conclusion
He’s the one making that conclusion and the burden of proof rests with him. His response has thus far been “I’ve looked at the cards carefully.” I don’t know what that means but if that’s enough for everyone else, then so be it. I’m done.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
You had nothing. Just glad that’s out of the way.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not one to kiss ass to the mods
But I full agree with your conclusions on Silva’s drawing power (i’ve made similar posts in the past) and am fairly annoyed by azruavatararasklfjalkf’s shoving his fingers in his ears and yelling “Nu-uh!!!”
And your response has been
Essentially, “I disagree with your opinion, justify it to me!” without offering anything resembling cohesive argument in response.
Ten dollar words and phrases lifted from a university debate book don’t make an intelligent argument.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
Have you actually sat down and looked at the numbers? It’s blatantly obvious that the cards where Silva is the main attraction (UFC 90, 82, 77, etc.) do below average in PPV buys. Do you think it’s a coincidence that his last two fights have been on the same card with BJ Penn and the fight before that was on the same card as Chuck Liddell? You’re just starting shit for the sake of arguing, if you don’t have any evidence (other than anecdotal) to back up your claims then quit wasting everyone’s time.
Fine
Why don’t you list your reasons, and your conclusions? You’ve yet to put your own opinion on the table yet have no problem criticizing someone else’s.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
agreed
i’d like to hear an opinion/hypothesis to the contrary. why don’t the cards that Silva “headlines” draw the same numbers as the other fighters? it’s been pretty consistent that his PPV #’s when compared to the other champs pale in comparison
"she told me she was on the pill." me
UFC main eventers are like movie stars. They are responsible for the success or failure of the enterprise. That’s why they get the big checks.
So George Clooney has never been in a movie that flopped? I’ll refer you to The Men Who Stare at Goats. If a movie gets bad reviews. People don’t go see it. Likewise, if a UFC event isn’t as heavily advertised, I’d suggest people are less likely to buy it. Even your analogies do a poor job of supporting your conclusion.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
For someone without his own opinion
You sure seem to be taking someone else’s really personally.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
Uh
He’s a big movie star because he has a track record of success. He’s already stated that the occasional flop doesn’t equal a bad draw. 8-10 in a row? If Clooney put out 8 stinkers in a row, no matter how well they were reviewed…he wouldn’t be starring in A-list movies anymore.
http://www.instrength.com
Damn you and your logic
Don’t bring reasonable arguments into this!
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
by Worldisart on Jul 23, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In this example it would be like EVERY George Clooney film flopping and you insisting he wasn’t the cause…
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
That wasn't a flop.
Assuming this website’s numbers are correct (no idea how accurate it is). It made a good profit.
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
by PapaBumpants on Jul 23, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Despite the awesome link to the XKCD cartoon I don't agree with you
I’m pretty sure Snowden understands the necessary / sufficient distinction so I’m not sure why you’re harping on it. It clearly is not a fallacy, when making an argument over the internet, to present evidence for a claim and then to claim it’s “proven”. If we were in a formal logic class, you could jump down his throat for making an affirming the consequence fallacy. Or if we were in a philosophy of science class, we could say that the structure of the argument is such that it does not admit to proof, but perhaps it admits to disproof, although if you’re a Quinean you’d argue that the supposed disproof is itself based on a theory you could not prove.
But this is the Internet and you, I and everyone else “knows” what he means when he says Silva’s not a draw. In short you’re being uncharitable. Give him a break.
"If a dick don't get hard offa cocaine, what would you axe it?" O.D.B.
"To be is to be the value of a bound variable." W.V.O Quine
"I shoot. I score. He shoots. I score." Dan Gable.
by The Darkness on Jul 23, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
You got pissed when someone called you a moron, yet you find it appropriate to tell someone they have “a Wikipedia level of understanding of the world.” Wow that’s not hypocritical at all, especially for the person hat wrote the article.
by Portland Raider fan on Jul 23, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would be more upset if he called someone else a moron. I will get in and mix it up. This isn’t an ivory tower.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
people on this site call Bob Arum an idiot every time he’s mentioned here, yesterday BJ Penn got called a narcissist, not to mention every story that Tito is in, not saying that the things that are said are or are not true but you guys are not moderating conversations as well as you’re putting on
Here's a suggestion to you and everyone else who complains about this kind of stuff
Bloody Elbow is the product of the time and dedication of the writers and moderators of this site. They offer this time and effort with very little reward in return. Bloody Elbow is not obligated to be fair or democratic in their approach to community moderation.
If you want to create a fair and democratic online MMA community no one is stopping you from starting your own Blog or fansite and moderating how you see fit. But this constant nit picking of site policies and what not in the comments of an article in no way related to those kind of things grows incredibly tiresome.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
by Worldisart on Jul 23, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Who’s nitpicking? I wouldn’t be in this conversation if the moderators weren’t trying to come off like they’re so offended when names get called.
Start your own blog
This is their site, this is their hard work, their dedication to an idea. If I was them I’d be pissed to when people decide to start calling names. If you really think it’s cool to just toss around insults like nothing and not think that people should be offended, there are plenty of other MMA blogs and forums that suits those needs.
Personally I come to this site and comment on the articles because it isn’t a cesspool of petty insults and stupid trolling.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
do you honestly think I came to this blog today so that I could piss off the moderators?? I don’t think it’s cool to toss around insults which is why I don’t do it I’m sorry if you feel like I’m critical of BE but that’s because I hold it to a higher standard then those aforementioned cesspools of insults and stupid trolling, I would just like to see more consistency in the punishments
Then send someone an email
My issue is that rather than discuss this article by Jonathon, you’ve decided it’s better to talk about this.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
And I really do take offense to you saying that I should go and start my own blog or something I brought up what I felt was a legitimate problem with what Jonathon was saying, You’re statement that this blog doesn’t have to be fair is kind of out of line some of the guys here in the comments section have helped just as much as the moderators to make this site great guys like bjj denver, IIowyn, weoweo, and even subo were some of the reason why I stuck around
lol at “and even subo”
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 23, 2010 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
we're fucking trying
you want to step up and do some moderating? we need the help.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
You wouldn’t be the first mod to do so
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 23, 2010 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll volunteer.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
I'm a lurker nowadays..
..but I’ll moderate! :-)
by filipinomix2oo0 on Jul 23, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
So many people are going to start polishing their ban-hammers....
And no, that’s not a euphemism.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
YES! Finally!
Let me go crazy with power!
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on Jul 23, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Homie, you’re dead.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on Jul 24, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Nate I get your trying I really do but the fact is that there are some stuff that you guys let slide I get it it’s cool I don’t mean to offend I just call them how I see them
some people get more latitude
like our writers and editors and posters who’ve been here a long time and/or make exceptional contributions.
there’s always a cost/benefit equation.
if all you do is bitch and namecall, goodbye. if you do tons of good stuff but also name call, well we’ll work with you as long as we can stand it
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
For instance, since I have over 10,000 comments I’m allowed to say whatever the fuck I please and none of these asshole writers can do a thing about it.
(oh my god, I’m so sorry Nate, I was just joking, please don’t ban me)
That sounds familiar…
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 23, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
You do realize
That moron is actually a technical term in psychiatry…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
UFC 116
was weak on paper, but the big PPV draw was Brock (whether by wrestling fans or MMA fans or by people who wanted to see him lose)……….he, by himself, sold the card and the “weakness” that appeared to be on paper, turned out to be just the opposite. I disagree w/you that the main event isn’t the “main” draw, or “only” draw. It is. It’s what peaks people’s interests.
"she told me she was on the pill." me
That card was also rumored to not do terribly well
until word got around about how awesome the main event was and after the fact buys were made. Do you attribute that to Lesnar or to Carwin throwing umpteen thousand punches in the first round? I loved the fight but should Lesnar be credited with all those non-live PPV buys? These are the types of variables that make analyzing PPV buys in relation to a single fighter far more difficult than Snowden wants everyone to believe.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
do we know
the disparity between the live PPV buys vs. the “after the fact” buys? serious question b/c you might be onto something here
"she told me she was on the pill." me
I don't think so
Frankly, we only have well informed* estimates.
*I’m not suggesting Meltzer is far off when he reports numbers but, frankly, the UFC is not under any obligation to provide the real number.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
I was under the impression Meltzer got hims numbers from cable companies though his wrestling connections, and not from the UFC (not sure if that’s what you were implying)
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
It was rumored to do bad BECAUSE it was a a weak card
but the Lesnar draw proved to be tremendous
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
When a card and main event is booked and marketed around one fighter, which is the case with a lot of Anderson Silva fights, then yeah, it’s a fair conclusion that when that card fails to draw good numbers, it’s because said fighter isn’t a draw. Perhaps there are other contributing factors, but the main one is said fighters ability to draw. To argue otherwise is just silly.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
(sigh)
People can’t seem to wrap their head around the fact that I’m not necessarily disagreeing with the conclusion, just Snowden’s “stat proof” of it.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
What stats?
Johnathon is talking about broader concepts that aren’t necessarily quantifiable. The effect of a language barrier on a fighters drawing power is not an exact science. Sounds like you’re just trying to pick a fight.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
Prove the other side...
Can you please point me at a card where Silva DID draw? Do you want to break down the undercards of his fights to show the other guys who caused the lack of buys?
Don’t you think that has everything to do with the fact you don’t know what you are going to get with him anymore? The guy seemed mentally unbalanced in the Leities and Maia fight. No one wants to see you talk crap and dance and punch people in the kneecap. If he doesn’t draw its because you don’t know what your $50 is going to get you (Matrix style knockout of Griffin, or a crazy dance session) rather then people don’t want to support a non-English, Brazilian of African descent.
by Portland Raider fan on Jul 23, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Fedor
to me is a great example of a non-English speaking fighter with a lot of fans. It has to do with his persona, his respect for the sport, and his match-ups; some legitimate, some not, but always entertaining.
Would he?
Who’s to say how he would do with the UFC’s backing.
Fedor also has the benefit of being a HW which generally generates more interest then other weight classes.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
I'm not a fortune-teller
but there’s plenty of evidence to suggest he would. Just his back-story of beating Cro-cop, Nog etc.. is compelling, plus he’s an exciting fighter who finishes.
So race and not speaking english is the reason? If anything, i think most fans of the sport could care less his color, ethnic background of his language spoken.
Yet trolling with the race card and language this is just bad. There is no reason for it. People who look to these cards are the problem.
Thats 2 articles I read from you in my recent time here and both have been outlandlish to the point I thought you were the site’s troll.
All of those are factors... The lack of a compelling match ups is also a HUGE factor to...
When is the last time that anyone questioned whether or not Silva would lose?
The Dan Henderson fight is the only one I can think of and by all reports, decision Dan isn’t a draw, not to mention that many UFC fans had only seen him fight once before in a loss to Rampage.
When was the last time someone questioned whether Fedor would lose?
Or GSP? Or BJ?
It’s just a reflection of how GOOD they are as fighters.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Question – so Anderson is the only “person of African” descent on 117, according to you. I’ll try to phrase this as delicately as possible – do you know that Alves/dos Anjos/Almeida/JDS aren’t of African descent? They’re Brazilian. Why is Anderson the only 1 of the 5 that’s designated that way? Personal research into each fighters ancestry, or some other reason?
http://www.instrength.com
Look test. Someone can ask them if they wanted. It’s a sensitive issue for Brazilians. I remember the Gracie’s didn’t even want to be identified as from Portuguese descent. They always made it clear their ancestry was Scottish.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you serious? Would you question whether Rampage or Rashad were of African descent?
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t state that Rampage or Rashad were the only ones of African descent on a card full of Brazilians, that’s for sure.
http://www.instrength.com
so
when you look at someone like Griffin or Brock, you wouldn’t question whether they have African descent, but when you look at Shogun or a Gracie you would? because somehow all Brazilians have black in them?
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Yea...
I don’t think BM thought about how racist he was coming off right then.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I answered this below, but that is not the road I was taking it down. Brazil’s population isn’t nearly as cut and dry in terms of white/black/Amerindian/etc. My whole point was that I just wouldn’t make any assumptions at all based on how anyone looks. That’s it. Wasn’t trying to be racist at all. Was simply pointing out that not everyone is as they appear.
http://www.instrength.com
yeah
I answered you below, and I didn’t take that line of yours as racist, just ignorant (because to be honest, most people here are ignorant to how Brazilian society is, since they don’t live here), I’m just getting annoyed because people are forming misconceptions, I shouldn’t read this thread… no worries though (regarding your comment).
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k4iZqbDsMs
Just reminded me of tis commercial
Race is VERY sensitive in Brazil
Moreso than in American. Nobody wants to be a Black Brazilian and they are kind of shunned in society.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
no it isn't
I’m starting to lose respect for a lot of people by reading these comments. it’s not a touchy subject anymore than it is in America, and where the fuck did you take this from:?
Nobody wants to be a Black Brazilian and they are kind of shunned in society.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I hope I’m not one of them, because my intentions weren’t to open this up to anything that’s seemingly being discussed right now. Again, my bad.
http://www.instrength.com
no worries brother
we’re good, I’m seriously not reading anymore comments though, only answers to my own. My head is about to explode!
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
HA
Well, I know it’s not your responsibility or anything, but educating the masses here (or asking them to educate themselves at least) certainly can’t hurt.
http://www.instrength.com
sure
Brazillian is a nationality, it carries no race relation to itself, Brazil is a country filled with different races, there are black people (like me), white people, asians, natives, arabs, etc. We have it all… There are racists in my country (just like there are racists all over the globe), but they are the minority (just like they are the minority all over the globe). The masses in Brazil don’t look down on a particular race, if there is some type of bigotry, that bigotry in most cases is regarding economic status, which we do have a lot of differences.
Just think of Brazil as you do your own country, there aren’t much differences when it comes to race. Let’s not be ignorant and say something we know nothing about, assume a country is a certain way when we haven’t lived in that country nor don’t know much about that country. When I encounter a thread regarding GSP and read a bunch of comments regarding Canada, I stay quite because I know nothing regarding Canada… basically, read my sig… peace, I’m out… oh yeah, fuck this thread…
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
by Orcus on Jul 23, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Well
I know a nice number of Brazilians across the racial/class spectrum and many say that the race/class issue in Brazil is just like it is in America except that race/class are more tightly intertwinend in Brazil than here in America.
We have “Arabs, Asians, Natives, etc” too, but to deny that in spite of them that racism and racial prejudice is not a big problem in both societies is an ostrich with his head in the sand approach..
I do think of Brazil as I do America. And America has a big race problem. I agree that there isn’t a lot of pure racists in both countries, but a vast makority are racially prejudiced. There’s a difference.
As for the comment you specifically questioned, see my other post below.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I know a nice number of Brazilians across the racial/class spectrum and many say that the race/class issue in Brazil is just like it is in America except that race/class are more tightly intertwinend in Brazil than here in America.
I know a lot of Americans brother, if I were to use what they tell me as fact, I would think the US is the most disfunctional place in the world. Would that be fair? just read all the comments here, 90% made by Americans and see the difference in points of view… Are these Brazilians living the US? yeah, I know a lot of Brazilians who live in the US who knows nothing regarding their birth place, I just destroyed one the other day.
but to deny that in spite of them that racism and racial prejudice is not a big problem in both societies is an ostrich with his head in the sand approach..
I didn’t deny racism, there is racism here, but it’s not a big community of racists (just like in the US I’d say…)…
I do think of Brazil as I do America. And America has a big race problem. I agree that there isn’t a lot of pure racists in both countries, but a vast makority are racially prejudiced. There’s a difference.
I don’t think America has a race problem, racism is active in small parts of the country, and what you see on the media is a few racists, take the percentage of that and apply to the rest of the media, it’s still a small %
As for the comment you specifically questioned, see my other post below.
answered
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I don’t think America has a race problem
It does, dude. It really does.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
when the media cries “racism” (and btw, are usually right), that does not mean you have a racism problem, but that you have racists in your country. difference being that it’s a small percentage of the people when being compared to the whole country.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I think it probably hinges on what you consider a problem. I’d bet it’s not consistent with what I consider a problem, which is fair.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
It is still quite prevelent, but primarily
Among the uneducated, particularly the poor (of which most are). Of course, the chicken/egg question is whether ignorance and poverty lead to the beliefs, or the beliefs lead to ignorance and poverty (and I mean ignorance in the true sense of being uneducated).
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's fair to say that originally
it was beliefs that led to poverty (denial of rights, gerrymandering and redlining) but generations since, it’s become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I know a lot of Americans brother, if I were to use what they tell me as fact, I would think the US is the most disfunctional place in the world. Would that be fair?
A lot of people would say that it is. Success doesn’t mean lack of dysfunction.
just read all the comments here, 90% made by Americans and see the difference in points of view… Are these Brazilians living the US? yeah, I know a lot of Brazilians who live in the US who knows nothing regarding their birth place, I just destroyed one the other day.
Many are immigrants, some 1st generation.
I didn’t deny racism, there is racism here, but it’s not a big community of racists (just like in the US I’d say…)…
Define “big community”. Racism isn’t as overt as it used to be as there are more subtle ways (class) to get your feelings across.
I don’t think America has a race problem, racism is active in small parts of the country, and what you see on the media is a few racists, take the percentage of that and apply to the rest of the media, it’s still a small %
This is highly incorrect. America has a large race problem that has now become a class problem. What you see in the news is overt racism. What is the big problem in America now is covert racism.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
batman
made a great point above, so I’m here taking back what I said about the US, what you said first just rubbed me the wrong way so I was pissed for about an hour (no kidding), I’m more calm now and letting this go :p
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I think that what he was saying is simply that dark skin makes everyone feel sick, and most would agree that the world would be much more attractive if everyone was as pale as construction paper and honestly I think he makes a valid arguement.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
You just read a page out of my secret diary.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Well your diary must share a room with mine buddy. Oh Michael, if only you had shared your secret with the world before you passed…minus the whole looking like a pixie thing.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
He did. Now its up to Sammy Sosa to carry the torch.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't agree with that
but I’m not going to try to dispute it either, I see how America has a lot of problems indeed…
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
It's not your fault, i think it was a misunderstanding of what I was actually saying
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you kidding me?
Have you been to Brazil? Have you spoken with Brazilians? Race is very big because it is so intermixed with class. Much more than it is here. Remember the Silva/Maia “playboy” stuff?
The Black Brazilians are on the bottom of the cultural totem pole. Why do you think some Brazilians go out of their way to label some Brazilians as octoroons and quadroons? It’s a way of creating a caste system. Look at Brazilian media. Tell me who is featured in it. What phenotypical characteristics are glorified? Now what percentage of their population have those characteristics? Exactly.
Posting about race always ends up changing the feelings some have towards others as there are truths that are spoken that some don’t want to hear.
Here’s the best I can do for you as a start. Reading is good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_in_Brazil
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
FYI
I’m 99% certain orcus is a Brazilian living in Brazil.
Yea, he is.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I know I just read his other post, I'm responding to that now.
FYI, when I said “No one wants to be a Black Brazilian”, that was meant in the same way that no one in America really wants to be Black despite the insistance that there is racial equality.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
that no one in America really wants to be Black
I’m sure that most blacks in America would not take that lightly either
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Most of us Blacks in America know it to be true
It has even been the subject of many jokes, (i.e. Chris Rock, Richard Pryor, Paul Mooney)
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Paul Mooney
FTW
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Most of us Blacks in America know it to be true
you know that no one in America really wants to be black to be true? wtf, ok… if that’s the case (I don’t believe it for a second), then you guys have no fucking pride in who you are, I could be the most unwanted mother fucker in Brazil but you better fucking believe I would still be proud of myself and love for myself. if you feel that to be true, you are feeding the racists with ammo, and you are part of the problem and not the solution… just saying…
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
In my experiance
Every Black person is very, very proud of being Black. I can’t stress that enough. However, most acknowledge life would be a whole lot easier if they weren’t. That’s the crux of the “not really wanting to be Black” feeling.
Again, that’s simply from my limited perspective from people I know.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
life is a battle for everyone, there is no easy way to live it unless someone is a ‘playboy’ (for lack of a better word). Blacks in America (as in Brazil), have today the same rights as everyone else, you can make something for yourself. A poor black guy has the same chances and potentials of making big as a poor white guy. Staying on the defensive because of our race is no way to change things for ourselves.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
A poor black guy has the same chances and potentials of making big as a poor white guy.
That makes a great quote and that IS how we want it to be, but it’s just not that way yet. As a society we have built a system that makes it VERY hard for a Black man to achieve the same level of success as a White man unless it’s in sports.
They really don’t have the same chances.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
ok then
show me how the system filters out the black guy.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Simple
the head of an organization can be racist without the whole department sharing the same views. That one racist individual can single handedly change the course of life for a black kid trying to make it in a particular field than that of a white kid. There are certainly still enough racist individuals with high positions of power that can indirectly or directly effect someone’s entire life.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
I’m not denying that, but that’s not ‘the system’ filtering out a black guy, that’s a racist filtering out a black guy. I’m not denying there are racists, just that we no longer live in a society where most are racists and that our laws are much better implemented for everyone’s right to grow within that society.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I’ll give you one example, just realize there are many others.
There are numerous studies that show, clearly, that a Black and White with the same exact qualifications applying for the same job will trend to the White guy getting said job. Heavily trend. On top of that, like women in America, Black men tend to get paid less for doing the same work.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
ok, I’ll accept studies (for your country though, that is).
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Oh!
I didn’t mean to imply it was that way in Brazil or in any other country! Sorry if it came off that way.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
no
it didn’t, I just wanted to make it clear that I am accepting that blacks are still mistreated in the US by accepting the studies you mentioned, I’m just trying to give in to what I said above “most of the blacks don’t want to be blacks” in America.
:p
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Some of the stuff is unbelivable
I was reading something recently about the state of education between Whites and Blacks. It’s terrible. Essentially, Black people in America are 3 grades behind Whites as far as their level of education.
Obviously, it causes a huge trickle down effect.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Who said that "most Blacks don't want to be Blacks"?
I’m talking about non-Blacks wanting to be Black. I think you’re confused.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
tags screwed me up
I don’t think most people of (insert race here) want to be (insert different race here) at all. Regardless of which is which
I don't think any minority who is proud of their race
would want to be “white”, but most would admit that life would’ve been easier. It’s an acknowledgment of “White privilege”.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Notice how it’s ok to say I’m black and I’m proud or I’m latino and I’m proud. But if I say I’m white and I’m proud everyone considers me racist. You don’t think there are overtones of racism there?
by dreamers_12345 on Jul 23, 2010 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
You can be White and proud
But “White Pride” has a history of racism and subjugation with it.
This will hit the fan when Cain fights Brock.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
The dude is a lost cause.
Just leave it alone. H
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Italian, Irish, Greek, or Polish pride are fine.
There’s a real history attached to “White pride.” Context matters. White people still have plenty of avenues to claim pride in their heritage.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Exactly. There is no problem with Irish Pride, Italian Pride, Jewish Pride, etc.
White Pride’s history is notoriously bad and anyone who wants to identify with that are IMO asking for it.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
White Pride
is the rallying cry of every neo-nazi, skinhead, supremacist group in the sewer. Why white people would want to defend that phrase as neutral or the same level as Brown Pride, or Jewish Pride, or Gay Pride is beyond me.
you did...
above:
no one in America really wants to be Black
you said this after you said:
Nobody wants to be a Black Brazilian
I don’t see how you meant this for non-blacks
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I was speaking of "America" as the majority of Americans
Not as an absolute for all Americans.
Some things are so literal.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
well
English is not my native language so I’m taking blame for this whole misunderstanding, my apologies :p
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Nope, I should've been clearer
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
we have the highest incarceration rate in the world
and the majority of the inmates are black or hispanic despite being a minority of the population.
and take drug offenses which studies show to be committed pretty much equally by all races and yet minorities are incarcerated at an enormously higher rate for non-violent drug offenses.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jul 23, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Way more time for crack than cocaine is just the beginning of how racist the Drug War is. God, I hate Nixon.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 23, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Racism is the dirty little not-so-secret of the drug war.
As author/humorist P.J. O’Rourke summed it up in his book on the US government "Parliament of Whores"
Crack is ruining America’s inner cities. Crack is killing police men, overburdening courts, and filling jails beyond their capacity. Crack is devastating thousands of families. Crack is putting the lives and well-being of our children at risk.
Now delete the words "crack is" and insert the words "n*****s are." Isn’t this the secret message of the drug-free America campaign?
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
You do realize that the “crack cocaine epidemic” [sic] came in the 80’s, right?
Also, the sentencing guidelines – which made mandatory (for a time) disproportionately longer sentences for crack vs powder (100-1 disparity I believe) were enacted in the early 80s as well?
the laws were passed in the late 80s
and only recently modified a tiny bit.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
They’ve been modified hugely.
The Federal Sentencing Guidelines – which is where the 100 to 1 disparity really comes in – used to be mandatory. Prior to the FSG, sentencing was wholly w/i the discretion of the judge (obviously limited by the statutory maximums and minimums).
As of 2005 those guidelines are now basically discretionary. So the judges again can pretty much freely depart from them.
Mostly I was just pointing out that Nixon didn’t have any to do w/ any of this.
Crack v Cocaine
laws are a perfect example. The same amount of each should carry equal penalties, but in most cases, crack possession and the amount considered for sale laws are much more draconian because of the racial stigma attributed to the “street” drug. And of course the numerous studies showing the likelihood of getting the death penalty if you are a minority versus white in similar cases, etc…
Too easy.
Don’t make me mention the Rockefeller Laws. The DC/Chicago/NY handguns laws, which don’t apply to the suburbs.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
We live in a racist society
but unless we acknowledge that not everyone chooses to weigh in on the negative side of that, we won’t be able to mark progress, and we ARE less of an OVERT racist society than we were in 1967 when the last state overturned inter-racial marriage laws. We’re getting there, but I wish it was faster.
That is very true, at least to a degree
In my experience, along with sports, the military is probably the place where merit alone still wins the day.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahhh
I didn’t think of the military! Good call! =)
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Everybody's first sergeant
was a huge black dude.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Recognizing your race's place on the totem pole of America
Has NOTHING to do with pride and self-love. Malcolm X was one of the proudest men in history and he would tell you how Blacks were/are seen in America
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
And another one.
Malcolm X was a pardo. Suck it, Black Lesnar.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Dammit, dammit all to hell
Yall still got Elijah Muhammad though.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh no we don't.
You get him and Farrakhan.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Malcom X
also lived in a very different time… so it’s really how blacks were seen and not are seen.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Racism has a weird way of presenting itself sometimes. I’m sure Malcolm from across the neighborhood seemed passable enough at times, but let him come home with someone’s daughter and he’s “that nigger from down the street.”
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
On some weird shit.
I used to fuck around with this white chick. She showed my picture to her racist dad when he asked about her boyfriend. He said I was a good looking and he was relieved I wasn’t some skinny loser. She asked why he wasn’t mad. He said cause i had white in me. Weirdest motherfucker alive. One time I banged the lady. She got into an argument with her sister who announced to everyone that she fucked a black dude. Her husband wanted cry.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
The husband was probably thinking
“but I thought he liked me!”
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
It aint that much different
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
that really sucks!
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
That's the straight up truth.
If it wasn’t for the genitals and athletic ability I’d take some of that Sammy Sosa skin cream. Just for a day or two. So people wouldn’t follow me around in stores.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
I think I realized that orcus is confused as to what I was talking about. He thinks I’m saying Blacks don’t want to be Blacks when I’m saying non-Blacks.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Chris Rock
“If a rich white man woke up a rich black man, he’d kill himself”
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
"White people don't wanna be Black, they don't even wanna be ME....and I'm rich" --Chris Rock
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
precisely
that’s how I took it and pretty much made me very angry, if you mean something else than this whole debate is for nothing really lol
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Are you kidding me?
no…
Have you been to Brazil?
yes… I live there
Have you spoken with Brazilians?
yes… everyday
Race is very big because it is so intermixed with class.
not really, fly your ass here and go to a favela, count how many are whites… you’ll find a bunch
Remember the Silva/Maia "playboy" stuff?
playboy has NO RACE RELATION
I’m not really going to bother with the rest… Just word of advise, if you use wiki as your means of gaining knowledge on something, you might as well be ignorant…
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I can find a bunch of "whites" in the hoods of America
Just because you are White, in America or Brazil, doesn’t mean you’re guaranteed to be of money. Do you deny the part race and class play in your society? If you are a Black Brazilian are you more likely or less likely to be poor? Pure numbers bear that fact.
The playboy quip is a class issue. Most of your uppercrush Brazilians are “White”. Would you say this is not true? The American equivalent to “playboy” would be an “Uncle Tom”.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Uncle Tom is a black guy wanting to appease the white guy, playboy is an ignorant mother fucker who cares nothing for the poor and feels above the poor, how the fuck is that the same shit?
Are whites more wealthy as a community than blacks? Certainly, that has more to do with history than anything else (and to a smaller degree the % of whites being much higher than the % of blacks). Today (keyword), however, the bigotry of the different classes in Brazil is not tied to race, someone is not going to dislike someone for being of a different race, but for being of a different class. Are they still tied, historically, yes, if you want to look at it that way, go for it, but you’ll never change anything looking backwards to how one’s past descendents were mistreated and that is why ‘my people’ are now mostly poor, etc…
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
It's not a perfect parallel
In hindsight, I would go with “sellout” or “Oreo”.
Class and race in Brazil as almost synonymous. Brazil is where the US will be in 50-100 years. You’re future America in terms of the racial bigotry being able to be diguised/expressed as classism.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
playboy is not a sell out either
just stop with the analogies, as I don’t think anyone here really knows what it means. Listen, today I do quite well for myself, back when I was a kid I was almost poor. The amount of ignorance I used to get for being of a lower class is crazy, but not once in my life I was ever called a deragotory term for my race nor did I experience injustice due to my race (that’s not to say for my class though). Just stop talking about Brazil as if you know what it is like here, from all the talks, I can see how it differs greatly with the US when it comes to race.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
playboy is an ignorant mother fucker who cares nothing for the poor and feels above the poor
That’s the DEFINITION of a sell-out.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I said that in general, there is so much different meaning to what a playboy is, someone who doesn’t know what it is to ‘work’, gets out of trouble due to the connections of their parents, is somewhat a gym goer and a bully, very ignorant. the reason playboy is such an offense here is because no one who works hard would want to have all their hard work diminished by the term. but if that’s the definition of a sell out then again I’m mistaken. I thought a sell out was someone who came from humbling beginnings, made it big, and would forget about being humble.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I think the issues you speak of
Have much more to do with class, than race. Class is a word that is all but banned in so-called polite conversation in America, although all thinking people are aware of it and affected by it.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea, like I said above
Brazil now in terms of class replacing race is where America will be in 50-100 years just that their “classes” are defined with racial terms.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Have to disagree with that
Although there is certainly a history there, class and race have little to do with one another going forward. The educated (and therefore successful) of all races will continue to climb up the social ladder, and the uneducated will continue to slide down it.
Yes, they do tend to group together by race at the bottom, be it trailer park, ghetto, barrio or whatever terms others may use, but it is their ignorance driving them there.
Is it more difficult for an African American to succeed in the US when compared to whites? Absolutely, everything else being equal.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
That's the same thing in America.
the “educated” minorities climb up the social ladder and the “uneducated” will slide down. Do you say there is no problem in America?
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
There is definitely a problem still in America
But it is more of a class issues than a race issue. Don’t misunderstand, racism here is very real, across all classes to some degree, but it is only overt at the lower end of the class scale.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't disgree with overt, I think I said that in a comment earlier
The higher you go, the more covert it is.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely
But a nice side effect of that covertness is that the younger generations see those sort of beliefs as something to be ashamed of and hidden. As a result, you really don’t see nearly as much of it even in the beliefs, much less the words of the younger generations.
That is why I think we go the opposite way from Brazil’s current race/class situation in our future.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
it's not a touchy subject
the Gracies didn’t want to be identified as Portuguese because they’re not, no Brazilian would call themselves Portuguese… (unless they were)
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
What do you make of racial and class divisions between luta livre and BJJ?
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
tell me about it...
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I mean
so someone is from Brazil, therefore they have to have African descent? we are a very diverse country when it comes to race, we’re not all the same race….
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I agree with that, and I wasn’t trying to be insensitive. The point I was making was along the lines of what you just said – it’s a very diverse country. I thought that just looking at them and deciding one was dark and saying “well, he’s the only one of African descent” was a bit ignorant. If the rest are considered white, or another label that makes Anderson stand out in regards to them, I humbly apologize.
http://www.instrength.com
no worries
but yeah, they are considered ‘white’ while anderson is considered ‘black’
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
The other fighters on the card would more likely label themselves
Octoroon or quadroon or mestizo or pardo or white
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
When I first got into MMA I was looking up who is who, checking the pictures, rankings to see who’s the dog in each division, and to be honest, when I made the list of fighters I want to see, Silva was the last champion on that list. He looked strange: skinny, lanky, big head. I thought it’s supposed to be bad ass sport and that guy didn’t look bad ass, more like golfer, or volleyball player, so I skipped him. I turned out I was completely wrong.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
J.S. is on point w/ this
But I would also add what someone else stated above. The reason ppl feel his opponents have no chance is just as much the ufc’s fault as it is his. He’s good but let’s be honest him in the mw division is akin to what would happen if gsp cut to make 155! I understand why they won’t put him against anyone in line for a lhw title shot but in the stacked lhw div there’s other guys he could fight that present bigger challenges than the top mw’s and dude is a natural be (walks around @ 230, Sam as Fedor) and has expressed a desire to fight there why not let him do it? I would say Silvia/mir does @ least 700,000 buys
Silva doesn’t walk around 230. He was 192 during last Countdown and supposedly 185 before entering the plane to AD. He was 20 lbs lighter than Forrest at LHW.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 23, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Soares has stated before that AS walks around at 220+
But that is between fights. He gains and drops weight, with very little “weight cutting” in the sense most American fighters use the term.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, 220 that’s his weight off season. People seem to think that he cuts from 220 and therefore should fight at LHW, which is crap. Jake Rossen reported that his saw AS before UFC 102 weigh ins with a big plate of food and a big smile of his face. And he was still 15-20 pounds lighter than Griffin.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 24, 2010 6:59 AM EDT up reply actions
oops...
Silva/mir not Silvia/mir, the latter might not do 700 buys lol
not human enough?
It’s a great subject to think about and discuss, but the notion that Silva “hasn’t been shown to be human” as a reason for fans not liking him is enormously off base. We as fans love the notion of professional athletes being able to perform above beyond the limits of what we consider human. Look no further than a man mentioned in this article, Fedor. He held an aura of invincibilty for years, before he was recently beat, and he was loved around the globe by those who follow the sport. Is he more loved in defeat than he was as an unstoppable force that seemingly could not be solved? Absolutely not. We’re all obviously intelligent enough to understand that no human is “not human,” but that won’t stop us from continually looking for the next athlete, be it a fighter, a basketball player, a football player or otherwise, who seems to exist above the norm. From Michael Jordan to Michael Phelps, we devour the great who are seemingly untouchable.
I don’t offer an explanation as to why Silva’s PPV numbers are so poor, I mainly agree with the assessment that his failure to speak english is a turn-off to fans, but I think it equally as important to note what the reasons aren’t.
This is just wrong. Jordan was labeled a selfish loser until his teams won six titles. We saw him try and fail. We’ve seen Fedor on the brink of defeat too.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Jordan was never labeled a selfish loser, and certainly not when he entered the NBA after having hit one of the greatest shots in college bball history to win UNC a championship is Freshman year. If you had or have that opinion about him you stand alone or at best in a small pack. More importantly it’s irrelevant to the issue at hand. He was loved when he won, even if you were watching him hit “the shot” as a Cavs fan or crush Utah with (what should have been) a career ending title winner as a Jazz fan. the point is we love tagging any superior athlete as “not human,” and it’s not a reason for people to not like Silva. I for one, love watching him just for the possibility that he can do to someone else what he did to Forrest Griffin, bc that was the performance of someone above what we’re used to seeing.
by Sweep The Leg on Jul 23, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
This is insane. As a Chicagoan and a huge NBA fan it is actually hurting my bran that you are insisting that Jordan wasn’t labeled a loser. It was a big deal. He was a selfish ball hog and didn’t know how to win like Bird and Magic. I actually got in a fist fight over this issue in the seventh grade. :)
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
haha love the passion, but Magic and Bird were well into their careers when Jordan came in. He had a learning curve like any other rook in any sport. That surely led to knocks like “ball hog” until he figured it out, but to label him a selfish loser is too much, Chicagoan or not, I can’t in good conscience get on board with that.
But if it still bothers you, then next time I come home to dc (born and raised, SON!!) you can get in your 2nd fist fight about it…i kid…maybe
by Sweep The Leg on Jul 23, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not saying he was a loser. I’m saying he was labeled that way and we all saw him try and fail. That made winning sweeter. With Silva we’ve only seen the champagne room, never the struggle.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
well, maybe we will in 2 weeks. And if that’s the case, do you think fans will love him for losing to Chael bc he’s now seen the struggle? I doubt it
by Sweep The Leg on Jul 23, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Jordan also had to lose for several years before he got the label of invincible superstar. It’s not like he broke into the league winning rings. Fans saw him as vulnerable before he became the juggernaut.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
Jordan
also had the luxury of the NBA looking the other way so he could foul his way to championships
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
I love that people point to the iconic shot against Utah… right after he pushed Bryon Russell 5 feet away.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
Right!?!?!?
They still use that highlight EVERY DAMN TIME and nobody even says anything???? WTF!
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The star system murders the rulebook
And sends ratings through the roof. Though David Stern may have us killed if he finds out we talked about it.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
Snowden is right
Almost everyone prefers people of their own race. It’s natural. It’s how we are. The majority of Americans are white. Americans also tend to be zenophobes and to distrust non-Americans. Combine that with Anderson’s recent douchebaggery, and there you have it.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jul 23, 2010 2:27 PM EDT reply actions
*xenophobes
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jul 23, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Why did boxing do so well for so many years in America then...the same for NBA, NFL?
It’s the different fanbases and different type of Americans
I’m not resting until I’m officially Anderson Silva status.- Jon "Bones" Jones
Boxing, NBA, and NFL were Americans. Silva is not an American. Being American is the most important thing. Race is minor compared to that.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jul 23, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
In order of importance
1) Spoken language
2) Nationality
3) Race
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jul 23, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Drawing the race/nationality distinction is something Americans are really bad at.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
Add in fight quality as #1
and you’re about right
A good example is, I do know a guy who tends to not like foreign or black fighters. The dude loved the hell out of Drew McFedries though, because he was a well spoken, American fighter who actually was on a tear for a bit there.
Of course McFedries fell off and that was that. But my point being that people like exceptional athletes. Even the minority of people who are still holding the race torch who have a problem with certain ethnic groups, will still watch and enjoy athletes from those groups. Athletes tend to be the exception to this sort of thinking.
Being black is the least of Anderson Silva’s problems. I’d rank it below being lanky, foreign, non english speaking, arrogant, and lately boring in the ring. If you took Anderson Silva and made him look just like Ricardo Almeida, he wouldn’t be any more popular.
I agree on fight quality. What if Silva looked like Maia? I wonder if that would matter. Well, nobody really likes Jon Fitch or Jake Shields. Maybe it wouldn’t matter.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jul 23, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I see. Almedia is no less white looking than Maia. I was picturing a different face. Well, nevermind then.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jul 23, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Revised order of importance
1) Fight quality
2) Spoken language
3) Nationality
4) Body type
5) Race
1 and 2 might be able to swap. 3 and 4 too.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jul 23, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Naw
1. Nationality
2. Race
3. Fight Quality
4. Spoken language
5. Body Type
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
So in your estimation...
Change Anderson’s skin color, but keep him a cocky, lanky, portuguese speaking fighter who refuses to engage, and his troubles are all but over?
I doubt he would be considered cocky by most fans for one
Just proud. I’m not saying it would all go away however. People are using this “refuses to engage” meme like it’s been there all along. Only in the last 2 out of 3 fights. There was nothing wrong with the Cote fight. But even before that, he was killing people and not drawing. Only NOW that he’s played around do people say “Oh, I don’t like him because he dances around”. I’m not saying that’s all tied into race at all, but there is a factor.
I also clearly listed nationality above race. Make him Fedor and put the UFC machine behind him and he’s a draw. No questions asked.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Except Fedor is not much of a draw either.
Bottom line:
If Anderson Silva had the personality and english of say Will Smith, he would be as big as GSP.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Fedor hasn't had the machine of the UFC behind him
Anderson has.
I guarantee Fedor would sell 600K PPVs versus a Cote level opponent with Dana marketing him. He put a lot of eyeballs on CBS fighting Brett Rogers.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Nationality #1? GSP is freaking HUGE.
I’d put spoken language at #1 or 2.
I’d also have personality on the list.
I don't think American fans make much of a difference between Canada and USA
The rivalry is pretty friendly (please no one cite me examples of the contrary, you know what I mean).
The US’ relations with other countries, especially those that look different from us, are different. Plus, I was saying in the case of Anderson Silva, not in all fighters in general.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 24, 2010 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Except that Anderson was kicking ass for quite a few fights
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
A.Silva is the reason I bought my first PPV.
But I’m French and black so I guess point 1 and 2 don’t concern me. Point 3 is spot on though. But he wasn’t popular even before he started fooling around anyway.
I'm a lover not a fighter
i was talking to a friend of mine who is french and african and were discussing race and all. Like i consider him french african. I don’t consider him the same “black” as some of my friends here in the states.
He didn’t consider it either. He considers himself french. Now the problem that I see is a loss in translation thing kinda. Most black americans considering themselves african american, regardless if they have mixed backgrouds ( irish german french etc )
For example my friend would put a check in the french box if applying for something whereas over here the person would fill in african american box even if they have a mixed background. Something called the 2% or 10% rule.
I am rambling
He’s French from Africa how can he fill the african american box? that would be inexact yes?
I’m not checking the box either, unless I got the American nationality.
We don’t really bother with this though. Here, black is black. The funny thing is the way journalists say the word on TV, they are like extra careful each time they say “black” like they are deactivating a bomb or something. Also you won’t ever find a “black” box to check here, seems clearly illegal.
I'm a lover not a fighter
"We've never seen Anderson Silva look human."
Anyone have a gif of Anderson screaming in pain to a flying heel hook?
The talk is about his draw in the UFC.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 23, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
or when he was triangled by a below .500 fighter daiju takase?
or mounted by travis lutter and getting punched in the face before lutter attempted a horribly executed armbar.
or more recently when he was rocked by maia in an exchange….
He baited Lutter with his arm for quite a while, when he finally got the bait, Silva escaped, that’s why it looked like a horrible armbar. And he wasn’t rocked by Maia.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 23, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
i cant really remember which round it was, but is was one of the later rounds where silva was dancing and taunting maia without offering much offense. maia clipped him in a flurry, man.
and if he could be mounted and punished like that, and triangled by takase, and taken down by hendo and getting smothered in half guard until the bell rang, how does that prove the statement “we’ve never seen anderson silva look human.”?
Well, Silva took shots from Cote and Hendo and barely blinked, so I doubt that Maia rocked him.
And again, he did look human, but the article is about his draw in the UFC.
Positional dominance by Lutter and Hendo was the most “damage” he received in the UFC.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 23, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Btw, your avatar is hilarious.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 23, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think a single solid strike landed for Lutter.
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
Kimbo
was an out-sized draw, huge in fact. No-one blacker than the Slice. If he’d had the skills to go with his image, cards would be popping 1 million a PPV with him headlining.
by Dootch on Jul 23, 2010 2:49 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Kimbo is American and speaks English. Those outweigh race.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jul 23, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Well good
then lets eliminate race from the equation here.
Then it comes down to no English versus the quality of his competition and his effortless dominance, and I say it’s the latter, with maybe just a bit of the former.
Race is still in the equation, but it’s the least important factor. In Kimbo’s case, being black helped him. To a lot silly white people, black is “scary” and tough. Kimbo was this big, “scary” black dude that they couldn’t help but watch. I think, had he been white, he would have lost a lot of his viewers. Anderson Silva isn’t the least bit scary/tough looking, so, in his case, being black doesn’t help him when it comes to white viewers.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jul 23, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Then that
pretty much makes race irrelevant in the grand scheme of MMA. Sometimes it helps you with your audience, sometimes it doesn’t, mysteriously depending upon your personality. Pretty much true for any race.
I think athletes and celebrities are special cases, and have been for a hundred years. I know older guys who tossed around the N word without qualms but worshiped Joe Louis. I believe that racism is still endemic in this society, we all have issues to some degree, but I think that’s the easy way out when dealing with Silva’s lack of drawing power, because plenty of black fighters have plenty of fans, so there has to be something else. I don’t buy Xenophobia either. Wandy, GSP, Cro-cop, Fedor and others have great fan bases across this country.
To be fair...
Nobody in that list but GSP actually can sell a PPV in this country.
And GSP is from Canada, America’s hat.
And Wandy is the only one that might look like a foreigner to an American. Anderson doesn’t really look like a foreigner, so he has that going for him.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next loss.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jul 23, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair,
there are only a handful of single fighters that can sell big PPV numbers, period, black, white, purple or red-white-and-blue striped with stars on their foreheads.
Then that pretty much makes race irrelevant in the grand scheme of MMA
Doesn’t the fact that Kimbo’s popularity bolsters based on the fact that white people see him as a “big, scary black dude”, and that Silva’s popularity is hurt by not meeting that stereotype indicate race is very much relevant?
by dano- on Jul 23, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There are several factors as to why Kimbo was a draw
Kimbo PROVES race is a factor
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes
And that’s also racial as well. Old White guy beats up n*gger on a bus. Why do you think it took off as much as it did? Many lived vicariously through him as they’ve wanted to punch a “thug” in the face for the longest.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
If you cheer for the white guy, racist.
If you cheer for the black guy racist. Okay.
That’s the nutshell approbation of racist labeling that causes a lot of frustration among people. Because you can’t choose to cheer for someone in some people’s estimation unless it’s race-based. That’s bullshit.
I was Ali’s biggest fan, whether he fought Quarry or Frazier. He didn’t have nice things to say about white people in his day, tossing aside his slave name, converting to Islam and refusing military service. But he was who I wanted to be when I was a young man.
Blanket statements cut both ways.
Who said that?
Cheering for White guys is not racist. Cheering against minority fighters is.
Cheering for minority guys is not racist. Cheering against White fighters is.
Pretty easy to understand.
SMH @ “tossing aside his slave name, converting to Islam and refusing military service” in an unjust war seen as bad things. And again, people seem to be taking this personally. No one is applying this to EVERY fan.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Except
That’s the first time I’ve seen you put it that way. That’s a far cry from “Kimbo PROVES race is a factor” which is as big of a racist blanket you can throw over people.
The things Ali did WERE seen as bad things at the time. He was right, of course, but so was Edgar Mevers, and many others who were killed, or their lives decimated by taking the right stand in a ignorant time.
Kimbo's popularity as a fighter (when he sucks) proves that prejudices and stereotypes are big in MMA
He’s a walking stereotype and yet was the biggest name in MMA. It’s not racist to say that most followed him because of that. It wasn’t his skills. What was it?
Only idiots would see him changing his name and converting to Islam as bad.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
There were idiots in the mid sixties.
That’s what society was projecting on Ali. It was ridiculous looking back on it.
Kimbo is a cartoon. That’s what people loved. The way they loved Andre the Giant, Bruce Lee, or Rocky, or Mr. T, or Smokey the Bandit, the white trash hero when I was a kid.
There were racist cartoons too. Haha
Mr. T was the first Rampage. Except Rampage is a legit fighter. That’s why I found it funny he played Mr. T.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
An old comic book
I had when I was a kid had a survey in the back. It asked “What would you like to read more about in this comic; The Ecology? Outer Space? Animals? Black People?”
Honest to gawd, no shit.
my dad HATED Ali
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jul 23, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I love this
Anderson wins, doesn’t draw- it’s because MMA fans are straight up racist.
Kimbo loses, draws, and breaks the bank- it’s because MMA fans are straight up racist.
Doesn’t get any better.
by dualdiagnosis on Jul 23, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Kimbo is a walking stereotype
He is the embodiment of what a great deal of Americans believe represents the Black man. Unkept, dripping with jewelry, thuggish men. He is comfortable to them.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
He's a menstrual show.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I had a feeling I was using the wrong one :)
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
It's who he's fighting.
He needs more fights against people the casual fan has heard of. Does anyone who watches only the “big cards” remember how Maia, Marquardt, Sonnen, Cote, or Leites got to the title shot? I would wager no. To the average fan (and I know that’s a redundant term) his challengers seem to pop out of nowhere. I’d wager him fighting Forrest Griffin has had the most hype in the last 2 years, and we all know how that went.
Who is GSP fighting?
Hardy?
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
i disagree with the race argument
Kimbo was the only reason why tuf 10 existed, and why it had one of the highest view rates out of all the the tufs even though it had a clearly less talented cast (roy nelson notwithstanding)
African Americans in MMA
This article’s assertion is basically holding the Bob Arum line, that MMA fans are a bunch of skinheads and that’s why black fighters aren’t possible.
The article itself debunks this – Rashad Evans, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones and plenty of other fighters are very popular, and there are lots of guys coming up, too.
There is definitely more of a prevalent caucasian presence in MMA, but that’s really something that is not so much that “them dang skinheads don’t wanna see no blacks!” but just due to the culture leading into MMA.
MMA is still a young sport, and the guys coming into it are coming from various places. The common avenues, collegiate wrestling, muay thai, BJJ are just less common culturally in black communities. Black athletes coming up tend to be steered more towards football/basketball/boxing because these are already established sports in their communities. As MMA’s presence has grown more and more, we are seeing a larger variety of people coming into fighting.
A good sampler is this. How many guys come into MMA and have an NCAA background? NCAA wrestlers are everywhere. So from NCAA’s diversity reports:
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/SAEREP10.pdf
The sports with the highest percentage of black male student-athletes
are basketball (60.4), football (45.6), indoor track and field (27.6) and
outdoor track and field (26.6). Bowling (49.0), basketball (51.5), outdoor
track and field (29.1) and indoor track and field (29.4) were the women’s
sports with the highest percentages of black females. All other sports for
both men and women had less than ten percent black student-athletes,
except for women’s volleyball (12.6) and men’s (10.2) and women’s cross
country (13.1).
The disparity of fighters is really due to a disparity of interest. You don’t have as many black athletes going into BJJ classes, or wrestling in high school, or taking muay thai at the local gym. This translates to less black athletes at the top level of MMA.
This by no means implies that MMA fans are adverse to black athletes. There are plenty of draws in pretty much every sport I can think of outside of NASCAR.
As for Anderson Silva? If he were more like Rashad OR Rampage, he’d be much more well liked. The guys are pretty much opposites, which is why their fight had so much push leading into it and ended up building so much hype.
The problem is, nobody can relate to Anderson Silva. Even on a pure sporting level, it’s hard to respect a guy who doesn’t respect the sport.
by Jason H. on Jul 23, 2010 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
this is a very good comment
I don’t agree with your conclusions, but this really is how it should be done.
thanks!
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Thanks
I stand by that AS’s race is the least of his problems, though. As I said above, if he looked like Ricardo Almeida (the whitest looking Brazlian fighter I can think of) I doubt he’d be any more popular.
Nobody can relate to a lanky, cocky, foreign guy who seems dismissive and doesn’t speak the native language where he fights. Combine that with the fact that nobody he’s fighting is very popular either (185 is a pretty crappy division) and it’s a recipe for disaster.
Nice work but Snowden isn't talking about participation
He’s talking about draw.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
But it’s shown that there are black fighters who have drawing power. There are less black fighters in the top draws than white fighters, but my contention is that this is due to their being less black fighters in MMA as a whole.
Are there more white stars in UFC than black? Absolutely. There are a lot more white fighters in UFC, and a lot more white athletes in the sports that feed into UFC. At the same time there are a lot more black athletes in basketball and football, and a much higher amount of black athletes in feeder basketball and football programs.
Kimbo = a draw due to racial prejudices and stereotypes and not ability
Rashad = might be a draw but not on skills, draw based on perceived cockiness and hatred
Rampage = a draw based on both racial prejudices and stereotypes and his ability
That’s pretty much it.
That’s like saying there aren’t many head Black football coaches because there aren’t many Blacks in coaching. Untrue.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
So why is Koscheck getting a title shot? Why is Jones headlining a TV event?
Honestly I think it’s derogatory to guys like Rampage and Rashad to state that they’re only draws because people hate them because they’re black. Maybe that’s what YOU think of these guys, but it’s not what the world thinks of them.
I also find it interesting
That the most derogatory comments made on black fighters in this thread have all come from you
I know this sounds weird
Most people don’t realize that Kos isn’t white.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I cannot tell you how many times I’ve had to argue with my black buddy, and one of his friends, about how Koshcheck is mixed. It’s a real pain in the ass dealing with black people sometimes (black person speaking btw, just to make that clear).
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
I learned that at an early age.
I don’t even show up to Thanksgiving anymore.
What’s the first thing black people say when we show up at a party full of black people?
“There are too many niggas here.”
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
My buddy texted me the other day that my religious beliefs make him uneasy, I texted him back that his complexion makes me uneasy after 7:00 when I’m at the ATM.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
Lol
There used to be a huge sign here in Portland that said:
“Nigger, don’t let the sun set on your ass.”
No joke.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Let a group of black guys wait outside in lawn chairs with fresh watermelons and blonde white bitches with cornrows after dark, THEY WOULDN’T DO SHIT!
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
I guess this place used to be Klan Central back in the day. Thank God they packed it up and went all the way to….. Idaho.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m glad I grew up in Southern Cali, plenty of racists but not enough that you really have to deal with them on a daily basis.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
My brother got called a cotton-picker by his teacher last December. I’m dead serious. He said he grew up in the south picking cotton. So its cool, right?
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Nigga Please
Dr. King himself woulda put the pimp hand down on that fake ass know nothin but what the textbook says biznitch. Then he woulda pulled out his jimmy and pissed in their mouth and asked them how much that tastes like cotton.
(for the record I don’t know that those are the exact actions the deceased Dr. King would take for sure)
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
LOL
That sounds exactly like what King do.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
There's lots of towns like that in the South called "sundown towns"
Don’t be in town after sundown.
Also hahaha at this thread of comments.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
My grandma told me about all the signs like it in Texas.
Yeah, I’m getting a good laugh out off this stuff too. Its not everyday you get to poke fun a such a wide cross sampling of racists.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Listen.
PEOPLE DON’T BELIEVE THE UFC IS RACIST.
Koscheck getting a title shot and Jones being put in a main event are UFC decisions. The UFC is not racist. No one has made that point. You’re creating an argument out of thin air.
Rampage already knows this and Kimbo does too. That’s why they act the way they act and look the way they look. It’s an image. A character. Rampage is not a dumb guy, Kimbo isn’t some thug. They are playing into stereotypes. I also never said they were hated. They are LOVED. Rashad is hated.
If Kimbo Slice was some blonde-haired blue eyed guy beating up people in the streets, he wouldn’t have gotten as popular as he was. (don’t mention EBM). Ask Rampage if he plays a character.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana White can't afford to be racist.
He’s too smart for that bullshit. I think he’s a Jew anyway. :)
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
So you’re basically saying, the world is racist, and nobody wants to watch any of these black guys, and UFC are just idiots for putting them in fights?
Again, the person with the lowest opinion of black fighters in this thread has by far been you. You either dismiss every fighter as a non-draw or state that they’re hated or playing a stereotype to downplay their success.
Obviously most people in this thread don’t feel that way, which is why there have been 600 comments to that effect. You obviously think less of the black fighters in the UFC for some reason, but you’re the exception, not the rule.
Gotdamn you deal in hyperbole
Let me BREAK IT DOWN FOR YOU. The UFC puts their fighters in a position to draw money. If they draw, they will continue to be there. If they don’t, they will not. Unless they keep winning. How hard is that to understand? I also didn’t say “no one wants to watch Black fighters”. That’s the thing with most of you, you see race mentioned and you see red. You totally focus in on that and neglect all the other shit that is said. No one has said Race is the only factor. No one has said it’s the biggest factor. People are up and down in this thread denying it even playing a factor at all and that’s bogus.
I don’t have a low opinion of Black fighters. Sorry that I’m aware enough to see the real for the real. Why was Kimbo such a big draw then? He sucked. Why was he so popular? Get back to me on that one. I love Rashad and Rampage (and even Kimbo) as fighters and people (for the most part), it’s just that I can recognize factors in their appeal or lack of appeal to the majority.
Why would a racist admit his feelings in public? That’s dumb.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see red when race is mentioned, I just think it’s silly that it’s being treated like a major issue as to why Anderson Silva is popular. I’ve said it over and over again in this thread and I’ll say it again: If you took Anderson Silva, made him look like Ricardo Almeida, he would not be any more popular now than he is today.
There are a host of factors as to why Anderson Silva is not as popular as other champions. He IS one of the top PPV draws in the UFC, he’s just underperforming from what you’d expect a dominant champion to draw.
You basically accuse every successful black fighter of not drawing an audience at all, and it’s just not true. Your definition seems to only apply to the top 10 PPV sellers, 20% of whom are black.
You’ve basically spent this entire thread negating the accomplishments of black fighters, saying they’re either worthless as a draw (because apparently only the top 10 PPV headliners are draws), or only popular because they play a role that’s a racist cartoon. You’re wrong, and it’s completely underestimating the fighters and what they’ve accomplished.
The funniest part is guys that you mention as huge draws (like Rampage) aren’t even pulling in numbers like Anderson Silva is. Anderson Silva is only a disappointment relative to his potential, and he has nobody to blame but himself and his actions. I could write a big novel about the reasons Anderson Silva struggled to gain footing in the beginning, and the reasons that he’s losing momentum now, but it’s all been said in this thread before. His problem isn’t that he doesn’t look like Ricardo Almeida. The vast majority of his problems are self inflicted. He has potential to be a superstar, and instead he’s only a mid-level star despite being given every opportunity to shine. This is the fault of Anderson and his management. Not some vast racist conspiracy.
by Jason H. on Jul 23, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The question isn't do much "Why can't Anderson draw?" so much as it is "Why isn't Anderson drawing better?"
The funniest part is guys that you mention as huge draws (like Rampage) aren’t even pulling in numbers like Anderson Silva is.
Uh, Rampage has outdrawn every Silva PPV. Silva’s biggest draw was co-maining (under a BJ Penn fight) against Forrest Griffin. Rampage has been on 2 million plus PPVs
His problem isn’t that he doesn’t look like Ricardo Almeida. The vast majority of his problems are self inflicted. He has potential to be a superstar, and instead he’s only a mid-level star despite being given every opportunity to shine. This is the fault of Anderson and his management. Not some vast racist conspiracy.
No one is saying that is his only problem. And no one is saying it is a conspiracy. Do you know what a conspiracy is?
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh, Rampage has outdrawn every Silva PPV. Silva’s biggest draw was co-maining (under a BJ Penn fight) against Forrest Griffin. Rampage has been on 2 million plus PPVs
Rampage has been pretty lucky with opponents/co-headliners. When left on his own like Silva is most of the time (or was in the early years), you get results like Jackson-Jardine (not great)
Let’s break down Anderson Silva’s problems:
Personality. He comes off as dismissive, cocky and arrogant in the way he talks, his body language and his actions in the ring
Foreign. Fans have a hard time relating to a guy from another country who’s always speaking through a translator.
Middleweight. There has never really been a star middleweight. Rich Franklin was the closest thing, but he never really had that mainstream cross over appeal like Chuck had. By the time UFC really had picked up steam, Anderson was beating up guys that he easily outmatched and had no name value at all. Fighters build a lot of their star power off of taking it from a win (Look at Rashad, Rampage after beating Chuck) and there was no springboard there for Anderson
His fights. Earlier in Anderson’s UFC career, this was not working against him. He was an exciting fighter ripping through the division, albiet a division that nobody has ever really cared about. He was slowly but surely building a fanbase, and UFC was doing stuff like letting him beat up James Irvin on Spike to help him overcome the other problems I listed up above. UFC started booking him with other, more popular champions to try to help him along. Anderson, apparently completely oblivious to this, decided to completely forgo his fan friendly fight style for the most boring, perplexing and frustrating fight style this side of Kalib Starnes. This torpedoed any and all momentum he was building, and completely plateaued his fanbase. In fact, there’s a strong argument that many people (like me) lost interest in watching him fight when he lost interest in fighting.
Basically, Anderson Silva was a lot like Fedor, with a bit more attitude in his commentary and celebrations after the fights. As with Fedor, he kept a base of hardcore fans and never really crossed over or broke out, despite dominating competition in his org/division. The difference is, that where Anderson had the UFC spotlight to propel him up into the stratosphere, he decided to squander that to the point where he’s on the verge of being fired from the UFC. This is what torpedoed his audience, and this is why he’s not pulling in any more eyeballs now than he was in 2008, despite UFC continuing to grow.
Change his skin color to whatever you want, it doesn’t change the real reason he’s having PR problems.
I'm pretty tired of going back and forth with ya.
This is all I’ll say Jackson vs Jardine was a much better buyrate than any Anderson fight. AND it wasn’t a title fight.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
See
Even you are starting to come around to my language not race meme…
Maybe it was the Yao Ming comment that did it…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah I just got tired of arguing with him
and breaking it down.
Language is a factor. I’m arguing against people saying race is not a factor at all. That’s ridiculous. People acting like they don’t have racial prejudices is hilarious. It’s human nature.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Who says race isn’t a factor?
I think what some people are saying is that it isn’t THE BIGGEST factor – other stuff like nationality, personality, and language is bigger.
A lot of people
Seriously, read the comments.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 24, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
See below
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
http://mmapayout.com/blue-book/pay-per-view/
2/3/07 UFC 67 Silva v. Lutter 400,000 <- Silva AND Jackson
3/1/08 UFC 82 Silva v. Henderson 325,000
10/25/08 UFC 90 Silva v. Cote 300,000
3/7/09 UFC 96 Jackson v. Jardine 350,000
Do you know that the Jackson fight wasn't a title fight?
And that title fights are on average 40% better in buyrates than non-title fights. That was a terrible buyrate.
Rampage also drew with Forrest at UFC 86. That Jardine buyrate was his worst.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Fuzzy math there guy
You twist the numbers to fit your point rather than making a point based off of what you see in the numbers.
You want to know why AS isn’t drawing like his peers, I broke it down above for you. If you want to keep spreading your opinion that no black fighters draw and the ones who do are sellouts/cartoons/whatever derogatory term you want to use today, I can’t change your opinion. That opinion is just based your own prejudices and not reality.
It wasn't my point
It was someone else’s point in another thread. And it makes sense. Title fights outdraw non-title fights. If your title fight number is less than someone’s non-title fight number, your drawing power is weak.
Please then tell me WHY Kimbo drew? I’ll wait. It wasn’t skill.
Rampage drew both because of the character he plays and his skill. Rashad because people hate him (perceived as cocky) and some love his skill. Anderson is a weak draw.
I’m tired of repeatin myself to a brick wall. Time to watch fights.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s hilarious to me that me and many others can come up with a long, well reason, fact backed argument for Anderson Silva being less of a draw than his peers, and you basically ignore everything and go “no, it’s because he’s black”
I get that you feel this should be a trump card that ends the conversation, but it’s simply inaccurate and I’m not going to just concede the point because you’ve said nothing to back up your view, in fact, you contradict yourself whenever it’s convenient to win the particular argument you’re trying to win.
Not at all
I agree that there are a lot of factors, some play a bigger part than others. It’s you and others like you that cry that race isn’t a factor which is why this comment section has turned out the way it has. There were 2 other reasons AND a couple others listed in the comments. They all play a factor. Snowden chose his big 3. I disagree with them. However, when I see people saying race plays no factor, I feel compelled to correctthem.
It is no “trump card” to end a conversation.
When have I “contradicted myself”?
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
The race debate:
Now forgive my typing and the lateness of this comment in respect to what has or hasn’t already been said (I haven’t read every comment); I’m on holiday and using my phone to type this.
Now, as for the debate about “race” and “language” as contributing factors to silvas relative unpopularity.
Jonathan doesn’t highlight race in the sense that all mma fans are racist, or that north american sports fans are racist. He means race in a purer sense, and it has nothing to do with racism, ignorance or bigotry. As Beer Monster excellently pointed out above, a fighters popularity is hugely dependant on the fans ability to emotionally connect with that fighter. How wouldn’t it be? Obviously performances and fighting style are also very influential, but connecting emotionally to other people defines our opinions of everyone – our friends, co-workers, family members and, without a shadow of a doubt, athletes and sports players. Whether people have sufficient access to their own conscious to realise and appreciate this is another matter, but, without question, this is how we socially operate.
I like some people more than others, as we all do, for different reasons; our shared interests, what I respect about them and how much so, how I perceive their moral standings and values, the compatibility of our personality types..to name but a few. This whole notion can be broadly defined as how you ‘emotionally connect’ to somebody’, as a few of the more socially astute posters have already pointed out.
Now race and language are important, not because there are millions of racist mma fans, but because it is harder to emotionally connect to somebody who is fundamentally different to you, who has been brought up differently to you, who speaks differently to you, etc etc. I like anderson silva and very much respect him as a fighter but I don’t LOVE him as a fighter. Why? Its hard to say but I imagine it is because there is very little about him, outside of being an amazing performer, that I can directly relate to. I love Randy Couture – a good example of a man who’s very easy to emotionally connect to, he’s an admirable yet humble 47 year old super athlete. I love Nick Diaz despite sometimes disagreeing with his behaviour, why? Harder to say. Although if I’m being very honest it could have something to do with his subtly defiant captain cannabis persona.
Obviously those are two examples, but I could breakdown every perception I have of every fighter, or person that I know in my whole life, if I really needed to. And the two examples illustrate my point. There are anomalies to the rules, see Wand, Saku and to a lesser extent Shogun, but, on the whole, connecting to a fighters personality is a HUGE factor in determining ones affection for them – whether the fans themselves are aware of this or not. And beyond question, race and languages are MASSIVELY influential in increasing or decreasing this connection. I don’t see how anyone can argue with that. Conclusion: stop berating Jonathan for “playing the race card” when he definitely he isn’t doing so in the way that you think he is.
We are One.
by shotokai_ on Jul 23, 2010 3:29 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 3 recs
I respectfully disagree.
He referred to the Third Reich, disaffected white males, and he used the word “racism.” So he most definitely is referring to racism.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
Fan of: Cole Miller, Dentist Neer, Alan Belcher, Bones Jones, Frank Mir
Great comment
And add to it the fact that when we are talking about being a draw, we are talking about drawing in people who otherwise would not have bought the PPV. So the fighters would be attractive to people who do not follow MMA regularly. These people will have to look at the fighters at a much more superficial level, as they do not have the encyclopedic knowledge of fighters that all of us BE readers possess. So while we BE fans can love a guy because they overcame adversity, put on great shows in the past, and genuinely are interesting people, the “casual” fan cannot.
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
by PapaBumpants on Jul 23, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with the sentiment
It’s silly to say that race is a complete non-issue, because it isn’t. There is also a small subset of MMA fans who are racist and don’t like certain races at all. However, I don’t think that someone’s race is a major obstacle in them being popular. There are tons of unpopular white fighters, there are a bunch of popular fighters from all over the place. As diversity goes, I’d say that MMA is one of the most diverse sports as far as ethnicities/nationalities (save for maybe soccer, a lot of those club teams have people from all over the world)
The way the article is laid out, it seems to play race as a very major factor. I think in some small way it adds to the pile of things working against Anderson Silva, but it’s not even mostly to blame for his lack of drawing power.
what a hater!
its ok Mr. Snowden will be all on silvas nuts again after he kicks sonnens face in.
by hatersgonnahate on Jul 23, 2010 3:37 PM EDT reply actions
If we’re going to ignore the Cote, Leites, and Maia debacles than this article is about two years too late. Now I can’t speak for others, but I’m very seriously considering not purchasing UFC 117, which would be the first event I would miss in over a year. Yes, I know the undercard looks pretty good. Yes, I know Silva could very well decide to show up to fight this time and obliterate Sonnen in highlight reel fashion. But I’m having a hard time justifying to myself buying a ppv that’s headlined by a guy who pretty much took a giant piss over his last paying audience. His antics in that ‘fight’ were far more offensive to me as fan than anything Sonnen has ever said or anything Brock Lesnar has ever done. People will say “but he’s the p4p best!” but if that’s how he’s going to act in his fights then who the hell cares!? But if you want to find reasons why he’s not a particular good draw, I would propose two points that don’t involve using the race and nationality cop-out:
1) He should have moved up to LHW after the Henderson fight. That would have appeared to be the natural progression of his career. Absolutely nothing appealing remained for him at 185 since then, which is probably why every middleweight title fight has sucked since then. Without Sonnen yapping nonstop for the last few months, there’d be no appeal to this fight either.
2) Has Silva ever bothered to help promote any of his fights? Guys like Brock, GSP, Penn, Rashad, and Rampage always seem to be out there. If Sonnen weren’t doing everything he possibly could to help push this fight (and god bless him for it) would anyone care about this fight at all?
But go ahead and use the race excuse. Its easy and will get the article hits.
by joshyboy708 on Jul 23, 2010 3:43 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
that's a good comment
thoughtful, articulate, impassioned…
then you go and blow it all at the end with a cheap insult.
Snowden is speculating, not excusing.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
How is that an insult? Are you going to try and convince us that hit counts are never taken into consideration when thinking about what to write up on here?
How can Silva (as a non-English speaker) do more to promote his fights?
That’s why Snowden listed Race AND language as factors. They are not independent of each other.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point. I just think that if he was particularly motivated to do his part he would. But he doesn’t care. So why should anyone care about him?
Could say the same about Carwin
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
*on this post
It’s all in the sig, baby.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Jul 23, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Jonathan is right for the most part
I think racism is a big reason for some fans not liking Anderson Silva.
Pro Boxing in America has been plagued by racism for decades. From the promoters, to the fans, etc.
I can’t see MMA being any different.
Hell, I’m not directly pointing any fingers at anyone, but when some people around on this board who have been laughing/agreeing with some of Sonnen’s racist dogma act that he’s been spewing towards Anderson for the last couple of months it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that some posters actually believe these things in their heart that he’s been saying.
No one wants to admit it, but racism is America is far from long gone.
by devious1 on Jul 23, 2010 4:15 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think this is what happens when we live in a world were some of the elitist “hardcore” mma fans just can’t conceive of a world where the alleged “p4p best” isn’t universally loved. They start pointing to the easy things. “Well it has to be his race…or his nationality…or his lack of English”. The blame for Silva’s lack of love gets tossed onto the fans. “It has to be all our faults, after all, he’s the p4p best. He has to be loved!” Of course then those same fans refuse to consider his “performances” in three out of his last four fights. Or the fact that he continuously talks about wanting the best challenges, and yet refuses to go up to 205 where his challenges are. Or the fact that he talks about honor and respect and does all his bowing…and then goes out and acts like a clown in the cage instead of a champion. Because if fans were to consider any of that, then the blame for Silva’s lack of love would have to fall on Silva himself….and we just can’t have that.
If you think race doesn't matter...
…You’re fooling yourself. I guess people just don’t realize how often Black athletes/celebs, especially the ones with a hint of class and dignity, are called ‘arrogant’. Now if you are a smiling, laughing, caricature, like Rampage, you will be loved. We all see that and know that. Its like if we aren’t trying to entertain you or make you like us, you get intimidated. And thats the honest truth.
Rashad is popular...
And doesn’t act like a silly stereotype like Rampage does.
Having seen Rashad live four times, I think “popular” is not the right word. I walked through the crowd with him at one of the events and it was scary at times.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
The guy has managed to headline quite a few UFC cards in the last few years and fairs respectably on the power rankings:
http://mmapayout.com/2009/12/mmapayout-coms-2009-power-rankings/
He also just headlined the 2nd biggest card in 2010.
Those rankings are invalid!
Rich Franklin is the worst draw in the history of the UFC period.
Lol… Sorry Snowden, had to.
What does that ranking tell you about anything? Pretty funny to just toss up the gross numbers? You know what that tells me? Franklin’s three shows brought in less than half the PPV income BJ Penn’s three shows did!
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
How many of the names on that list did not have a title fight in 2009?
It tells me that numbers can be manipulated in a number of ways.
The Franklin Conundrum....
I think the deal with Franklin is, he’s one of the guys that was really popular in the pre-TUF and right when TUF was breaking out days. In the last few years, during UFC’s exponential growth, people basically saw him get destroyed by Anderson twice and then go on to a bunch of meaningless, lackluster fights.
As a result, he’s not drawing much more than he did 5 years ago. The fans that liked him in 2005 still like him now, but he hasn’t built on that base much due to a combination of shitty booking and some lackluster performances.
That said, after knocking out Chuck, I think Franklin has potential to make a legitimate run at being a superstar (assuming he starts training at a better camp and can actually, you know, WIN those fights) whereas Anderson Silva does not.
They go to show that personality and performance are both very important factors in what makes a fighter a star, and if you have one without the other you’re not going to sell.
Also, I think the rankings say a lot.
Being the 12th best draw in UFC is not bad, but it’s not great. He’s not the worst draw in UFC, but he’s a lower end headliner. He’s still a headliner, though. Now that he’s at 205 he should be in a lot more interesting fights….he had the same problem with quality/popular opponents at 185 that Anderson has had. 205 has a lot more big names.
UFC 88 was particularily troubling
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Rashad is NOT popular
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
And..
If any black athlete behaved like Brock Lesner or Chael Sonnen, you people would be calling for him to be banned from the UFC. And we all know this.
No...
He makes you laugh. Rampage actually grew up in my neighborhoood in Memphis. And no Rampage makes a caricature out of himself to be funny so you like him. It works for him, but that type of stuff is below a lot of people. If he was educated and arried himself as such, you would hate him
ESPN would be all over that.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
And...
Look at Rashad Evans- according to most of you, he’s an arrogant, boring fighter. Yet he fights pretty much just like GSP and I’ve never heard him say anything below the belt.
Some might counter that with, ‘look at Bones Jones, everybody loves him’. Yea thats now. You guys always like the young talented freak athlete, but I 100% gaurantee that in a short amount of time, the more exposure and people realize that he’s just another non-perfect person, you wll turn on him too. Rookies are always beloved, but as soon as he says the wrong thing, he’ll be just another cocky pampered black athlete to you.
I'm sorry you feel that way.
I couldn’t disagree more. Rashad is just a boring fighter, period — as is GSP, to whom you compared him. It’s gotten to the point where I do not look forward to GSP’s fights that much. Is that because of his race somehow too? Bones Jones is the opposite of boring and I look forward to his fights much moreso than either Rashad’s or GSP’s. I couldn’t care less if he “says the wrong thing.” Too much projection going on here if you ask me.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
Fan of: Cole Miller, Dentist Neer, Alan Belcher, Bones Jones, Frank Mir
"Rashad is just a boring fighter, period — as is GSP, to whom you compared him."
A major difference is that GSP was a very exciting fight for most of his career.
Rashad was only an exciting fighter for somewhere near 4 fights.
A major difference is that GSP was a very exciting fight for most of his career.
Agreed.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
Fan of: Cole Miller, Dentist Neer, Alan Belcher, Bones Jones, Frank Mir
Also
To clarify, i was responding to dave901, not your post.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
Fan of: Cole Miller, Dentist Neer, Alan Belcher, Bones Jones, Frank Mir
It's talent, 100%
People gripe about Phil Davis because he’s got that boring wrestling style. That’s some people’s gripe with King Mo. Jones is popular because he’s fun to watch fight and he’s winning.
That’s really it. About the only black fighter I can think of who’s won a bunch of fights and hasn’t gone anywhere is Antonio McKee, and I think that might have more to do with him being such a boring fighter that it’s considered a punchline how boring he is.
Anthony Johnson, Josh Koscheck, Paul Daley, Drew McFedries, Quinton Jackson, Cheick Kongo, Rashad Evans, Jon Jones, Phil Davis….shit, I could name fighters all night, but none of these guys get a disproportionately low amount of fan support due to their race. The guys are typically booked in the same fights as guys of any other race, and their style/record/personality is what determines their popularity.
by Jason H. on Jul 23, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rashad Evans is another example
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Sick and Tired of the racial-bias issue
Does racial-bias and racism remain in the US and throughout the world in different degrees and does that in many ways affect behind the scenes issues? Yes. Does that mean it constantly needs to be brought up and made to be an excuse for every social issue that has some tinge of racial tension? No. People are always going to be at least a little racist in their own way but that goes for every color and creed. Whites can be racially biased, blacks can be racially biased, latino’s can be racially biased, the list goes on and on. The theory that that someone always needs to be vilified because someone interprets their actions as discriminatory is utterly tiring and redundant.
I'm sorry your tired of it...
But how do think we feel? I get tired of hearing how ‘cocky’ Rashad, or Silva (of all people) is and how much all these commentors want to see them lose. I get on these boards looking for something interesting to read and the differences you see in how black guys are percieved compared to other guys is stark and obvious. Your tired of it…me too. I’m not saying people are inheritly just bad people, but when I hear over and over and over how Anderson Silva is cocky, which is ridiculous, what other conclusion can be drawn? He’s like the single LEAST cocky fighter I can think of outside the cage. Inside…I give the guy the benefit of the doubt for that horrible display he put on, after doing anything for 20 yrs, things can get tedious. Especially if you are a fighter and the guy you’re fighting, wouldn’t even be good enough to train with you. I personally think he felt insulted. Bottom line is this guy is the closet thing we will ever see to Bruce Lee in an Octogon, if he’s a little wierd, I think thats to be expected.
Least cocky fighter you can think of?
The guy basically says he’s going to retire to MMA and go box because there’s nothing left for him in MMA, and generally acts dismissive. In the cage, he evolved from cocky victory dances to just blatantly taunting guys while running around and burning the fans’ money. He didn’t put on one horrible display, he’s put on 3 in a row at 185 now. He thinks he’s better than the entire sport of MMA and it shows through his actions and words. Just because you BELIEVE he’s better than the sport, doesn’t make him not cocky for thinking it.
As for guys who aren’t cocky? Bones Jones, Anthony Johnson, Bobby Lashley, Herschel Walker, Drew McFedries. Made sure to name some black fighters as you seem to think that everyone thinks every black fighter is cocky as soon as they win.
No
He wants to box Roy Jones because that was his idol growing up. He mentioned boxing because of the paydays. He hasn’t mentioned boxing since signing his new contract.
His “victory dances” are no worse than Chuck’s “run around the cage like a buffoon” or BK’s blood-licking.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Rashad and Silva being percieved as cocky has anything to do with race
What other conclusion can be drawn about Silva? Maybe that he is simply a cocky fighter. There does not have to be a racial connection there. Silva is not the least cocky fighter out there as when was dancing around the ring, shouting at your opponent mid-fight, blatantly insulting him anything but a pompous ass. Calling Frank Mir and other heavyweights out as well does not demonstrate the kind of humility that many fans look for in a champion. I don’t come on here and see someone like Jon Jone’s bashed for being cocky or being bashed at all, least of all if any, because he is black. The people whom are discussed on these sites are not praised or criticized because of their race but because of their performance and how they conduct themselves in and out of the cage.
There are plenty of humble fighters such as Rich Franklin, Jon Jones, Cain Velasquez, (black, white, latino) and plenty of cocky fighters, disrespectful fighters such as Brock Lesnar, Paul Daley, hell, Ricardo Mayorga. (white, black, latino)
by dreamers_12345 on Jul 23, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
In simplest terms, American don't like Black fighters confident in their abilities and a quick to label them "cocky"
Ali, who is loved now, was hated then for his brash attitude. Big George Foreman as well. Jack Johnson, etc.
Silva has been labeled “cocky” before the Leitis fight, so dancing has nothing to do with it. And before the “shouting at your opponent or insulting him”. Fighters do that ALL the time during fights. Forrest Griffin flicked off his opponent’s corner during the Shogun fight.
Him saying he would like to fight Frank Mir is seen as cocky? This is what I mean. BJ Penn wants to move up to fight GSP and it’s stoic.
Funny you mention Jones. He too is starting to feel the backlash from fans. It’s small right now, but it will grow. Trust me. Same thing happened to Silva. He was a “humble” champ and now he’s “cocky”. Jones’ actions will be nitpicked and overanalyzed.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Get off it.
Everyone hates everyone for different reasons. If Lesnar is cocky and people hate him then it’s because he is cocky but if Rashad or Silva are cocky and people hate them then it’s because they are black. If you actually think that then you’re an idiot.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
People hate Lesnar because he is a WWE wrestler.
Not because he’s cocky. They hated him when he came in and was humble to Mir before and after the loss.
Sorry that race talk upsets you so.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Go back and read some threads after, say, UFC 100. Find how many people were bitching about Brock because he was a pro wrestler. People don’t like him because of his bullshit attitude.
Brock is hated as a prowrestler, I've said that three times already
And nothing Rashad has done has equaled that.
And people hated Brock WELL before UFC 100. If you deny that, then I know you’re just trolling.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, by your logic
Bobby Lashley, being both black and a WWE wrestler, must be considered the most cocky, hated fighter of all time
Which is odd considering most of the MMA world’s reaction to Lashley sounds something like “meh”
Why?
He’s not Brock. He’s not good. He’s not in the UFC. He has NO personality. He gets dissed for ducking fighters.
Bobby Lashley hasn’t been put in a position to draw.
You also seem to want to apply something to EVERYONE. That’s not how things work. Everything doesn’t apply to EVERYONE. You have to be smart enough to get that.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree 100% with everything you said about Bobby Lashley.
But your other comments, which basically have said any time a black fighter does anything he’s labeled cocky, and that white fighters get a pass on being cocky, and that Brock is only disliked because he’s a WWE wrestler, not an asshole, just don’t add up.
You seem to apply your generalizations when it fits the “people are racist!” rule, and when it doesn’t, well that situation is an exception. I’m pointing out the flaw in this system.
You don’t think people would describe BJ Penn (or even Frank Mir) as cocky? I think you’re putting a little too much into the race thing when it comes to calling fighters out as cocky. Rashad IS cocky. So is Kos. But so is BJ, Frank Mir, Brock Lesnar, and a whole host of white guys that take the same heat for the same cockiness.
http://www.instrength.com
I'd like to add
BJ, Mir and Brock also have a TON of supporters. A lot of people seem to love the attitude on them.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Who said BJ or Mir weren't labeled as cocky? I didn't.
They are labeled as cocky. I never said they weren’t.
My point is they are QUICKLY labeled as cocky. You fuck up once and you’re “cocky”.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair, it just happened to white guy too. Like, this month.
Brendan Schaub brushed the dirt off his shoulder, now everybody wants the cocky SOB to lose.
I generally agree with you through this comment section, but here I think you’re reaching a bit.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Is the outpouring of hate against Schaub great?
I’ve never heard of anyone being upset with what he did. This is the first time.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Then you haven't been reading many of the comments on here.
A lot of people just on this site were shitting on him for it.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Really? Where? Let me go look at the UFC 116 live thread
And like I said earlier, not EVERYTHING applies to EVERYONE and EVERY CASE.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s seems like you’re not looking very hard, because the Schaub backlash has leaked it’s way into many comments in many different posts. You obviously read a lot of what’s goin on here based on the number of comments you make. Why did you miss this? I don’t know. But your agenda here would seem to point in one particular direction.
http://www.instrength.com
One or two posts here or there is not "shitting on him"
You would at least think they would’ve done it in the very thread of the event.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
It was a lot more than 1 or 2. There’s a search engine in the upper right corner. Look for yourself.
http://www.instrength.com
Link me since you say they exist.
And besides that, like I said EVERYTHING doesn’t apply to EVERYONE.
Still interested.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not your mother. Scroll up and find it yourself. You alleging that it didn’t happen doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
http://www.instrength.com
You're refuting my assertion.
Burden of proof is on you. I went to the UFC 116 thread. Wasn’t much. I’m not going to search through threads about other subjects just because you said it was there. If you say it’s there, they you use the search and find it. That’s what happens in a discussion.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Many things happen in a discussion, including someone not posting 120+ times in 5 hours. If you missed what was right in front of your face (for whatever reason), that’s on you, and devalues your argument.
http://www.instrength.com
How is it "right in front of my face"?
We’re talking about people “shitting on Schaub”. I didn’t see that. It didn’t happen in the official UFC 116 thread. YOU said it happened in other comments sections. I’ve seen ONE person mention it in this thread. Any others? Ok SHOW me.
It’s seems like you’re not looking very hard, because the Schaub backlash has leaked it’s way into many comments in many different posts.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Jesus buddy
A quick look would find you a wealth of information, but since you’re lazy…
Hey, how about this post about Brendan Schaub from yesterday.
Happy now?
http://www.instrength.com
No response?
You’ve spent 4 hours responding to everything within 2 minutes, and nothing now? I’m disappointed.
http://www.instrength.com
I’ve noticed that he stops commenting when his weak arguments are shut down
by Jason H. on Jul 24, 2010 12:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
My dick is not velcro
Hop off it.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 24, 2010 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions
You do realize that there was ACTUAL MMA on last night at this time??
You should’ve watched it, a decent card.
I read 6, count ‘em 6, comments. That’s all? That’s what you’ve got to show me that he was “shitted upon”.
To quote Tito Ortiz: “Ahahahahahahahahahaha”.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 24, 2010 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions
If you want to check the SF Challengers thread, I WAS watching it. Nice try. If you can’t multitask, that’s not my fault.
And is there a set amount of comments that make it an issue all of a sudden? That’s just from ONE post. Face it, you were wrong.
http://www.instrength.com
That's good, hope you enjoyed it
The examples I listed, I said they got shitted on. You countered with Schaub as an example of someone getting “shitted on”. 6 comments out of over 100 is not getting shitted on.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 24, 2010 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Where is your response now, playboy?
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 24, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
You have to be White
I’ll trade with you and then we’ll shut up about racism and prejudice
(no I won’t trade)
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
You have to be Black
I’d take you up on your offer if I could (no I wouldn’t) I was raised Jewish and I’m bisexual so I’ll be damned if someone is going to criticize me for making comments on prejudice simply because I haven’t “felt their pain.” Boo-hoo, we all have our own shit that we’ve been through.
by dreamers_12345 on Jul 23, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ug
Jews got/get a raw deal but it’s not nearly the same as what Blacks in American had/have to deal with.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
And not to get into a pissing match
But I’ll take the Jewish history over the history of African-Americans any day. Native Americans? Maybe we got a discussion going.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to get into a pissing match either
But I would just as much take African American history over Jewish history and to a lesser extent the G/L/B history as discussed in the article “homophobia in MMA.” Not to beat a dead horse, but 6 million people being brutally murdered seems a lesser evil? On the second topic, while I will grant that the gay community has not had it nearly as bad as blacks, it is obviously a very raw topic as well and it has been no easy picnic for them either. The simple fact that we are trying to debate who has had it worse throughout history is a sad statement in and of itself.
by dreamers_12345 on Jul 23, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
40 million people stolen from a continent.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
You're high
6 million dead is tragic and very unfortunate and I am not in anyway demeaning the Holocaust when I say I feel African-American history spanning over 400 years and effecting over hundreds of millions is worse.
I won’t go into detail more than that as it is a sensitive subject.
No one was arguing that, you were.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The guy is just a cowardly racist
who can’t come out and say what he wants to say.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Cowardly racist?
I’ve said everything I’ve wanted to say. I have no problem with any race. What would you like me to say? You’re assumption that I am a racist simply because you “feel” that I’m minimizing oppression is pathetic and low. Learn how to maturely debate a topic without making serious accusations about one’s character, jackass.
by dreamers_12345 on Jul 23, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
you are.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
There's nothing left to be said.
I am not in the business of arguing with racists, online.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Then good day to you sir
Next time come out with a reason why you think someone is racist instead of just calling them one. By your method I could just as easily call you a racist.
by dreamers_12345 on Jul 23, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
How do you know I'm not? :)
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I may have taken your comments out of context.
But understand, many many times I’ve heard people make the comparison between oppression groups and many times that person is basically that everything is all good and we should shut up. Another thing that led me to believe you were racist was the mentioning of ‘white power’. Only because we’ve had this discussion many times and it usually involves some one defending the term or claiming reverse discrimination for not being ‘allowed’ to express their pride in said whiteness.
I apologized if I put the carriage in front of the horse, but it seemed like thats what you were saying.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
No one will read my articles now.
:sadface:
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
You're good.
This whole thing will all blow over by tomorrow and it’ll be like nothing ever happened. Just a bad dream, that’s all.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to retire like Jim Brown
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep. Go out on top.
Like Prince.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
It's ok and I can see where you're coming from
I really didn’t and don’t want to get in the “who’s had it worse game.” It only incites more angry and resentment. I am fully aware and accept that there is racism in America and throughout the world. It should be discussed openly, that’s the only way problems get resolved anyway.
As far as the whole “white power” thing, I’m not with the KKK or preach white power or anything lol. Perhaps I phrased my words wrong. I’m not trying to pretend or act that “the white man is being kept down” or anything like that, far from it. The example I gave could be misleading when I said something along the lines of “blacks can say black power and latinos can say latino power but whites can’t do the same.” Not chanting white power over here :P but I don’t think I need to be ashamed of it either for what happened in the past. I’m happy being me and I have nothing against anyone of any race. I think we should all be happy with who we are and not shrug racial tension under the rug but still approach it gently and not throw accusations around. Thanks if you read all through this
by dreamers_12345 on Jul 23, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I honestly think that some rug shoving wouldn’t hurt sometimes. All wounds heal in time. But if we keep picking at it, our scars will remain forever. I’m not saying we shouldn’t discuss such things. I’m saying that it is better to rub some aloe on a wound than it is to pick scabs.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
extends proud black hand
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
damnit
was supposed to be a black hand shaking a white hand
by dreamers_12345 on Jul 23, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
rec'd
That would have been awesome.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Jewish persecution
was just getting warmed up after 400 years and hundreds of millions.
Both races have had it shitty.
Its a ridiculous argument that only a closet racist would even bring up.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
not you :)
the guy who keeps minimizing oppression.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Clearly talking about America.
Clearly.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Who was "crying"? I was stating facts.
You said you were tired of “racial bias issue”. My opinion is you must not be subjected to it. And I was correct.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I have been subjected to racial bias and I will explain why. People like the many people who have commented on this thread seem to assume that because a person is white, they have to love Silva, Jones, and any other black fighter. I can dislike any fighter I want without race being an issue. It’s people that assume that racism is always a factor in why a minority is in poverty, disliked, not hired for a job, etc that are promoting racism in and of itself and provide a loophole crutch to make excuses. I’m not saying racism doesn’t exist but it goes both ways. The “white man” isn’t always trying to keep the “black man” down. Does racism exist? Sure, but it’s not the single determining factor as to why a black man is not always living the life he wants. You make your own luck and if you go through life bitching about how everyone else is trying to keep you down, then you’re bound to repeat history and end up down and feeling sorry for yourself.
by dreamers_12345 on Jul 23, 2010 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
No one says you have to love anyone. No one is talking about YOU at all.
As for the rest of your post, I’m not even going to address it. You sound upset.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
No hard feelings man
Was a lil heated earlier but cooled down.
by dreamers_12345 on Jul 23, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
In his last fight its very possible that Silva gassed himself from excessive taunting. That something like that is even possible should explain the dislike for Silva. But no…its because he’s black. Unbelieveable.
What about before his last couple fights?
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you mean what about the Leites or Cote fights? Two other fights that absolutely no one was demanding and that wound up sucking? Two other fights were Silva showed his complete disdain for anyone that paid to watch him fight? If the question is why he didn’t draw two years ago…then that question probably should have been brought up two years ago. I can tell you exactly why I don’t plan to order UFC 117….and it isn’t because Silva is an African Brazilian.
I’m sure people were bringing it up two years ago, Snowden didn’t happen to be a writer here two years ago. The point is trying to decipher the exact reasons for the lack of support for Anderson and the people bringing up his Cote/Leites/Maia trilogy are taking the simple answer. There has to be some reason for why even before those fights he wasn’t drawing, and to use those fights as an example to try to go with the “attitude” wouldn’t explain the whole picture, so instead everyone is trying to dig a little deeper. It’s been established that that’s your particular problem, but we cant just start pat ourselves on the back and consider the case closed.
Honestly, instead of trying to avoid the argument all together I present the question to you, why wasn’t Anderson a draw even before those three fights?
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
I’m a little troubled that people want to ignore Silva’s recent title fights in an article titled “Why do fans hate Anderson Silva?”. But whatever. Its not like Silva had some extensive UFC career before his recent debacles. So what it comes down to then is why five specific ppv events from no less than two years ago failed to draw, and from that we can draw some sort of conclusion about the fanbase today? (and it really might be three events. Maybe I’m wrong but I always thought that the Marquardt show, which cofeatured Tito, and the Henderson show did ok). So that leaves the two Franklin fights (and has Franklin ever been a draw himself?) and the Lutter fight, which turned out to be nontitle. My problem is that instead of any detailed analysis on any of those cards….the first two points Snowden brings up is Silva’s race and nationality. And yet I’m the one accused of looking for the easy answers.
You also forget Leben and Irvin and the fact that in all seven of his fights before that he was destroying people in highlight reel fashion every time. There also wasn’t enough buzz for him before the Cote fight which was the start of it, then again not enough buzz for Leites despite Silva only having the one bad performance before that. It’s not ignoring those fights, it’s trying to look at the bigger picture as to why even beyond those fights fans are turned off by him.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
No one paid to watch the Leben and Irvin fights on tv because they weren’t pay per view fights. I think Silva was beginning to gain momentum around the time he beat Henderson, moved up to 205, and destroyed Irvin. A permanant move to 205 would have been perfect right there. Instead for whatever reason he stayed at 185 which was effectively cleared. Any goodwill he was beginning to gather vanished after his most recent fights. And that’s his own fault. But a detailed analysis of those five pre-Cote ppv fights, including trends before and after each show, wouldn’t be quite as sexy and hit-inducing as “well maybe its because he’s black”.
Leben and Irvin included in terms of his accomplishments so far in his career before Cote. But yeah, clearly this list isn’t the infallible explanation for why Anderson doesn’t draw.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
See Fake Emcee's response
And it’s funny that people seem to be taking this article personally. Snowden wasn’t speaking for EVERY MMA fan or EVERY Anderson detractor.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
race has nothing to do with it
The reason Chuck was so popular is because he won 7 fights in a row by KO. People like to see a fight end. Gracie is still a bigger name than all but 4 or 5 fighters. Rampage, Rashad, Big Nog, Shogun, Machida hell half the UFC is from Brazil and they get fans. Silva’s fights do not sell because he is ALWAYS a huge favorite to win the fight. How can that be overlooked? When is the lastr time Anders was not at least a 2 to 1 favorite? The biggest draw to any fight at any weight is not knowing what is going to happen. No one wants to shell out 50 bucks to see Anderson kill Sonnen either that is why the card is stacked with other great fights. Hockey, Golf, Tennis, MMA, Swimming , snowboarding, skateboarding, surfing, anything with a board, diving, anything with water pretty much any sport that is not basketball or football is dominated by white people. Race has nothing to do with why people don’t pay to see Anderson. Put him up against Vitor and folks will tune in because he won’t be a 7 to 1 favorite.
Anderson Silva won 7 fights in a row too by KO and/or submission in the first two rounds
When was the last time Chuck wasn’t a favorite during his run?
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno
When was the last time Chuck screamed at his opponent mid-match?
by dreamers_12345 on Jul 23, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
When was the first time Anderson did it?
The Maia fight.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Anderson was still a low draw before that but
the point is, doing things like that didn’t help his cause. Behaving like a jackass inside the cage doesn’t help an already poor public image.
by dreamers_12345 on Jul 23, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Why was his image poor?
He had done nothing to deserve a poor image.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
He has little personality and granted I wouldn’t say his public image was overly poor but he wasn’t an overly large PPV draw because he steamrolled through the opposition and as it said earlier in the post, many people are uninterested in watched a mismatch.
by dreamers_12345 on Jul 23, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t say his public image was overly poor
except… you did…
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I was correcting myself from my earlier post. I meant to say that he wasn’t really hated by the fans until his series of boring matches. He just wasn’t a big draw b/c of his lack of personality.
by dreamers_12345 on Jul 23, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
but now you're twisting
when we say things the first time around, that’s usually how we feel… when we get called on it and have to rethink to give a different answer, that’s usually just BS to cover our tracks. Listen, I don’t think Anderson’s race has anything to do with him not being a draw, but frankly some of the stuff you’ve been saying regarding racism is just downright ignorant.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
I can listen to and respect other peoples opinions
Listen, I did get emotional and you’re for the most part right when you say people write how they feel at first. However, not that it matters to anyone other than myself, but I’m not racist. I just have strong feelings on the issues of racism and don’t feel that all issues like AS being disliked has to do with race. The word gets thrown around WAY too easily and then you start getting into dangerous territory. I can listen to the opinions of Black Lesnar and others and respectfully disagree on certain issues. It just seems to be general consensus however that if you do not like or want a person who just happens to be black, to succeed or dislike their personality, you must somehow be racist. Racism is a delicate issue that should be talked about but it’s far too easy to begin throwing accusations around.
by dreamers_12345 on Jul 23, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
That's not the general consensus at all
No one would write an article about Josh Koscheck like this, he’s a prick. Nor Melvin Guillard.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
not calling you a racist
just ignorant to some of the history regarding racism (which in no way implies that you are racist), but all in all I do agree that the term is used more than it should.
the following two things are signs of weaknesses:
stay silent when it's needed to speak up, and speak up when it's needed to stay silent.
Which may be true
I am only 20 after all. I still have some studying to do :-P
by dreamers_12345 on Jul 23, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
When Chuck had his fights with Randy and Tito he was only a slight favorite, people tuned in because their was at least some question as to if he would win. His fight against Jeremy horn in that run was a hit because horn had beaten him before same with Jackson. Silva on the other hand is not just a favorite but a HUGE favorite to win every fight. 205 is the most stacked division and always has been. 185 is the least. thales latetis? mia? cote? sonnen? those are massive under dogs. The non English is a factor for his lower ppv numbers but it mostly the fact that he has not been up against a threat since Henderson. If being black is such a factor then how come NONE of the other black fighters or non-white fighters like BJ Penn, Machida, big Nog have a ppv issue? It is such a cop out to blame race. Silva has bad numbers because he has been a complete ass clown the last couple of fights and disrespects the fans by doing so. It would not matter if he was Asian or White or purple the dude lost a lot of fans with his antics inside the ring.
Silva is no Different than Fedor
This is a sport where marketing yourself is incredibly important. Hell, Tito Ortiz has made a living for the last 10 years because he knows how to market himself. Brock Lesnar, a master. Forrest- writes books, hits the MMA talk shows, shows up and helps guest coach TUF. Some of these guys tweet, some facebook, some have their websites where they post training videos and other stuff.
What do Anderson and Fedor do to promote themselves? Nothing. They have an attitude that being the best is simply good enough. Who couldn’t draw a crowd if they were fighting for free in the middle of Times Square? Anderson and Fedor.
You can say race has something to do with Anderson, but then you run into the problem that Fedor is white.
We live in a world where people want to be able to relate in some way to the people they root for. They want personality, humor, humility, and above all a show of humanity. Acting as though the fans are just there to shell out $50 to buy PPVs, and that we’re worthless the rest of the time, does nothing to endear fighters to fans. Do something more than just show up every couple of months to collect a paycheck and go home. Act like you give a shit about the fans. Maybe then the fans will give a shit back.
Fedor has never had the UFC marketing machine behind him
If Fedor did, he would draw big. Silva has the machine behind him and doesn’t draw as well as he should.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
This whole country is racist
the foundations are racist. There is nothing we can do to change that, but when we have a weird rage when it’s pointed out we exacerbate the situation. There are ENDLESS examples in every sport of race playing a factor.
To hit the topic, MMA is the most racist sport I have been a fan of. I assume NASCAR is worse, but I don’t watch so I don’t know. I essentially had to stop going to sports bars to watch fights because of the racist shit that would happen when a black fighter was on the card.
Seriously… when the great white hope, Chuck, got blasted by Rampage it was nearly a fucking riot. This was in Las Vegas, not some hick fucking town.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
racist sport.......????
because all you batman can see(you must be an African American..) is colors.. not individuals..
“the racist shit that would happen when a black fighter was on the card.”
hmm…….. why was Rashad hated? ’cause of his antics
why is Rashad well liked now? ’cause of the good image he had from TUF.
You’re saying.. color has everything to do with it.. what a….. (sigh)
maybe.. all white fighters should stop helping black fighters..
perhaps.. Dana should stop giving guys like Jon Jones, Phil Davis a huge promotional push…
maybe.. all white fighters should stop helping black fighters..
perhaps.. Dana should stop giving guys like Jon Jones, Phil Davis a huge promotional push…UFC does a crap load of sh*t for black fighters..
maybe.. all white fighters should stop helping black fighters..
perhaps.. Dana should stop giving guys like Jon Jones, Phil Davis a huge promotional push…UFC does a crap load of sh*t for black fighters..That will make Vegasbatman happy……..
I'm giving you one opportunity to explain
what you meant by “you must be African American”
and it better be good.
I have a zero tolerance policy for racism or race baiting on this site. We can have a balanced discussion and everyone can make their points, but you’ve already indulged in name calling and maybe worse.
check yourself
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Thanks dude.
I was struggling with a reply, but know it’s better to abstain.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude, he called you Batman.
That makes you awesome.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
True enough
I’m insanely much flattered now that I think about it.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 23, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Is that a slur I’m unaware of? Its bitchin.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jul 23, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Batman hides in shadows, shadows are dark, black people are dark
Boom.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought it was cause bats stink :)
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
From memory
“What exactly is your problem with Black people?”
“How much time do you got?”
“Where would I start? Well, first of all, they’re lazy, good-for-nothing tricksters, crack-smoking swindlers, big-butt havin’, wide nose breathin’ up all the White man’s air. They eat up all the chicken, they think they’re the best dancers, and they stink! Did I mention that before?”
“Yes, I believe you did”
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
“The other day, one of them monkey’s came by to pick up my sister. I told him ‘Look here, Nigger. If anyone’s gonna have sex sister, its gone be me!”
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 24, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
ouch. I need to edit.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 24, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I am not involved in any n*^^^rdom
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 24, 2010 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions
It's amazing to me
how people who always want to “dispute” racism are always the first ones to make some off-handed racist remark, and the fact that they do it so unconsciously just seems to make it worse really.
"The Wu is too slamming for these Cold Killing labels
Some ain't had hits since I seen Aunt Mabel
Be doing artists in like Cain did Abel
Now they money's gettin stuck to the gum under the table"
What do you mean
“What do you mean?!?”
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 23, 2010 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I wanted to write something like this a while ago
But I know whenever race is brought up, certain people get insulted (as seen in the comments). People citing Rampage and Kimbo as “draws” are missing the racial implications in those two fighters.
Hmmm.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 6:04 PM EDT reply actions
Jon Jones is headlining a card on cable. Josh Koscheck is about to go into a title fight. The 2nd biggest PPV this year was headlined by two black fighters. The amount of popular black fighters is pretty much directly proportionate to the amount of successful black fighters. Is your implication that every single black fighter is only popular because people are adhering them to some stereotype?
What does that have to do with drawing power?
No one believes the UFC is racist or prejudiced. Just fans. Jones and Koscheck have earned their positions based on ABILITY which is what a company does. They are now being placed in position to DRAW. If they don’t draw, there will be actions taken.
No, my point is that many of the Black stars’ drawing power comes from manipulation of racial stereotypes.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Well....
If a fan doesn’t order a PPV, it’s technically his fault. A fan decides who he likes and dislikes.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a different question
Anderson bears a part of the blame (because of his recent performances).
But before that when he was killing people, he still wasn’t drawing.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I know I'm a little late to the party here...
but I just had to chime in. I have to suspect that Jonathan expected an explosive response with this article, but he wrote his opinions despite the reaction he knew was imminent, and I have to respect that.
That being said, I think you really missed the mark on the race issue in this article. I think that Anderson’s race may very well be an issue with his popularity, but not in the way you not so subtlety alluded to in this piece.
Like it or not, this racial makeup is going to attract people with impure motives. Chuck Liddell is no racist, but there is a reason he was the most popular fighter in the world with many disaffected young white males. There’s a reason that some MMA apparel companies feature imagery derived from the Third Reich. This isn’t coincidence This is the audience.
I think this is way off base. People do, in fact, often support one fighter over another because of race. However, insinuating that this is the manifestation of impure ideology is probably 99% inaccurate.
People identify with members of their own race more easily. Period. Here’s an example. I am not particularly a fan of either Ben Rothwell or Cain Valasquez, however, when they fought, one could say I was pulling for Big Ben. This wasn’t because I harbor any sort of ill will towards hispanics or hispanic fighters. I, like Rothwell, am from a rural area of Wisconsin. I simply identified with him more than with a Mexican fighter with a “Brown Pride” tattoo across his chest.
That’s not racism, at least not in the obscene derogatory sense that you implied in the article. It’s just forming a natural connection with a human being who’s lifestyle and background I can identify with better.
Brazilian fans will generally support fighters with whom they identify with, and it just so happens that the majority of Brazillian fighters are either black or of mixed race. That doesn’t make them racist towards American fighters of European heritage.
Also, briefly, I think the connection between MMA clothing and Third Reich imagery is just bizarre. I have never spoke to anyone else who made such an observation. I think it may simply be that clothing related to a violent sport contains relatively militant imagery, fittingly, and that such artwork, because of basic human stylistic universality, resembles the militant artwork of the Nazi movement.
People identify with members of their own race more easily.
I don’t think that is true. When in doubt, I cheer for Asians. Honestly, and I am sure you didn’t mean it this way, but that’s like what people who are racist do.
I think the connection between MMA clothing and Third Reich imagery is just bizarre. I have never spoke to anyone else who made such an observation.
You have to be kidding me…. Holzer Reich? They aren’t really big so many you don’t know about them, they are really F’d up dude. Silver Star isn’t blame free either, which got brought up further up in the comments.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
You have to be kidding me…. Holzer Reich?
Full disclosure, I’m a big fan of MMA, but not so much the fashion. I’m the kind of guy who buys a four pack of black Haynes T’s and an assortment of different shaded jeans from Wal Mart, so I have never heard of that brand. And I suppose I should clarify, I don’t doubt that there is a racist element who enjoys MMA. Race-hate groups are violent, and thus are attracted to a violent sport. I just thought this article gives them FAR too much undeserved cred, and greatly exaggerates their percentage of the demographic.
I don’t think that is true. When in doubt, I cheer for Asians. Honestly, and I am sure you didn’t mean it this way, but that’s like what people who are racist do.
Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt on that one. It’s an extremely tough position to attempt to articulate without undermining its own merit. So let me attempt to clarify just a bit more.
I am not saying that I turn on an MMA event, see two fighters that are unknown to me, and cheer for the white guy. The fight I used as an example, had UFC Primetime coverage, which allowed us to witness a more personal side of each fighter. This led to me forming a connection with Rothwell based on his lifestyle and background.
Being a fan who regularly visits MMA blogs and forums such as this, I acquire information about a bevy of fighters that I then, consciously or unconsciously, use to form a connection with certain fighters.
Now, one would have to be either dense or delusional to deny that people of different races generally also differ in culture. As the years pass, these differences certainly blur. But they still exist, with of course, an increasing number of exceptions. I don’t think it’s wrong, or even avoidable, that a fan would find himself connecting better to an athlete he/she can relate to. And for now, until every cultural barrier is smashed and blended, it is more likely that a person of the same race shares a closer culture.
I couldn't get back to this until really late
but great post and clarification, dude. Thanks! =)
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on Jul 24, 2010 4:28 AM EDT up reply actions
You know it’s a slow news day when writers start climbing up on soap boxes and writing opinion pieces.
Actually, there are opinion pieces every day whether it is a slow news day or not. Look in your local paper, I promise!
You started off poorly with this and then got worse.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s just mad cause you wrote a piece that forces to people to think about some things they’d rather not.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember bringing up the fact that the atmosphere at UFC 88 was so racially-tinged
and just getting torn apart for it. People hate talking about race.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently if people are unaware of something, willfully or not, then it must not exist.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn't aware of parsnips.
What the fuck is a parsnip?
Renee….Zellwegger?
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn’t aware of small penises. But from what I hear, they’re out there.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 23, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
“He who does not feel me is not real to me, therefore he must not exist. So poof, vamoose son of a bitch” Hov
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jul 23, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I was there that night. It was awful.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 23, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The reason Anderson doesn’t draw is plain and simple. He’s very hard to relate to. It’s difficult to understand what he’s doing. When he whispers his answers to Soares, you don’t hear his voice very often, he destroys his opponents with a simple easiness that is difficult to relate to. His antics are all but impossible to understand. He’s the eccentric artist that has completely lost touch with his peers, his fans, and his community. He’s an amazing fighter with a personality that is impossible to relate to.
Fans love someone that shows them something within them, whether it’s something they hate (Tito) someone they respect (GSP) or something in them they love/despise (Brock) Penn is the loyal buddy that never leaves your side. He’s funny and cocky. The Anderson Silva on the camera is really really hard to predict.
Almost all of the factors that Snowden mentioned are relevant, although he is perhaps over/under emphasising the importance of one factor above another.
To me, the reason why Anderson Silva is a ‘poor’ draw is because of the quality of opponents, and his own abilities as an amazing fighter. For example, people watched Fedor because they wanted to see if his opponents could beat him. When he fought Brett Rogers, he had a high chance of getting KO’d by a massive guy who punched like a truck. When he fought Werdum, he had a chance of getting submitted by a superb BJJ player.
Unfortunately for Silva, he doesn’t exhibit the ‘weaknesses’ that Fedor shows, e.g. normally being alot smaller than his opponent, tendency to cut easily, get put in bad positions, get outboxed, e.t.c…because he is literally a class above the rest. I think until he is matched with a dangerous 205lb fighter, he will continue to do average in raking in PPV counts.
Then again, thats just talking about PPV sales. Whether fans actually hate Silva as a person is another story.
What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease.
-Sun Tze
Fedor fought mainly guys he couldn't be thought of losing to
No one gave Rogers a chance except extreme Fedor haters and Fedor fans falsely propping him up to make it seem like a bigger win when Fedor beat him.
Werdum too. Most gave him no chance.
I don’t think fans HATE Anderson at all. Just dislike him.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps its just me...
But whenever I watched Fedor fight, I always had the feeling that he could lose to his opponent. With Anderson Silva, I don’t ever get that impression.
What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease.
-Sun Tze
I mean I thought Fedor could lose, everyone could
Anderson, IMO, is less of a threat of losing than Fedor was in his later opponents. I see your point. I believe that “poor quality of opponents” is a factor.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t believe I went to the pub for 3 hours and came back to 300 new comments…and at least 220 of them have nothing to do with MMA at all. Hey, I’m cool with intelligent discourse, but…what the hell?
http://www.instrength.com
Racism discussion
cannot be fenced in by targeted examples like MMA. It’s a testament to it’s incendiary subject matter.
I just feel like I wasted 20 minutes of my life, expecting MMA discourse eventually, but getting very little.
http://www.instrength.com
20 minutes
reading people opinions about race, in an open forum where they can let their guard down shouldn’t have been a waste of time, compared to reading 20 minutes about cock-fighting or the myriad other scintillating topics here.
Exactly
I think there was a nice discussion in there. Somewhat cathartic.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I've seen numerous threads go off topic
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
This is an MMA forum. There are hundreds of thousands of places on the internet where this would be more pertinent. What it started with is fine with me. It was relevant to the topic. It’s evolved into something well beyond the scope of MMA. I ain’t hating, I’m just saying that.
http://www.instrength.com
Don't hate
and just appreciate that an occasional thread can go beyond the banal into more substantive subject matter.
Let's talk about jizzing into sushi
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you making a racial slant about my Japanese girlfriend?
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 24, 2010 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes. Your girlfriend Sue Shi.
She made sweet jungle love to me for a substantial amount of time.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 24, 2010 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Some of it is substantive, some of it is pissy. But nobody bats 1.000
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jul 23, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
For what its worth
I was talking to my very casual fan coworker and Anderson came up. The one thing he said, “Silva is a badass, he knocked Forrest out in like fifteen seconds. AND FORREST IS A BAD DUDE.”
Forrest helped his drawing power a lot, I guarantee it. If he was fighting Vitor, we’d see how much it would have increased. A fight against GSP or Shogun would do huge numbers. He’s just not going to draw very well against Maia (or Sonnen probably.)
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Next fight after Forrest only did 500K and that was with Penn.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
It was also at ten am. Nobody expected good numbers there.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jul 23, 2010 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Was it? Maybe on the West Coast, but it was available at the regular time.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
On tape delay
You seriously going to pretend that time zone had no effect on buyrate?
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jul 23, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course it did, as it has in other PPVs but unlike those other PPVs, you could watch this one live.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 23, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Which other pay per views were this affected by time delay
I honestly do not know? Most British cards are shown free on Spike. Also, its not like they sell well. Was the German card ppv?
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jul 23, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
And I bought it.
When Josh Barnett pisses in a cup, magic comes out.
"what the f**k is the internet?"
Pain don't hurt...
by RolloTomasi on Jul 24, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Snowden
is like those shock tabloids you see at the supermarket at times.
It’s fun to read how mad some people get.
When Josh Barnett pisses in a cup, magic comes out.
"what the f**k is the internet?"
Pain don't hurt...
Two Things
1. But their is a distinction = But there is a distinction. Simple grammatical errors like that make it tough to take you analysis seriously.
2. Silva is hands down my favorite fighter. I think it is silly when people give him criticism for the Cote fight, Cote had a reoccurring injury that came up. In all fights, Silva feels the guys out a bit and then he unleashes the fury. In that fight, he was just beginning to pick Cote apart. People were giving him shit because he was finishing fights to fast at the time. The Leites fight, well that was a bit stupid. What Silva should have done is just admit that he does not prefer ground and pound. His strategy was sound, but the fight was boring. This was good martial arts, not great MMA. Finally, the last fight, well that was embarrassing. I brought MMA noobs to watch the fight, they spent good money, and I talked him up. They were excited. They were disappointed.
3. No one cares about Silva’s race. That is a silly thing to say. There are just less black martial artists. Why? Because martial arts ain’t cheap and is rarely offered in bad neighborhoods. The universal nature of football, basketball, and soccer is the fact that all you need is a ball and you can play. People love black athletes and want to watch them. Your argument would only work if we were crossing over from Tennis. Otherwise, black athletes dominate all sports except for bowling that people actually watch.
4. Language: Definitely a factor. How can Silva hype a fight if no one understands him? People want to hear from him without Soares rewording everything he says. Silva does not have a story. GSP is the garbageman turned phenom. Lesnar is a prick X entertainment wrestler. BJ is too cool to care. Fedor is larger than life (or was) and has an entourage of crazy Russians selling his fights. Silva likes video games and practical jokes.
5. I hope Silva pulls out some Aikido in this fight. I hope he has Seagal in his corner. That would be hilarious.
“Make it tough to take you analysis seriously” Hilarious. I thought b_rad got banned.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jul 25, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
People dislike Anderson Silva because he is so good and more so because he knows it.
To say that Nationality, Race and Attitude/Effort are the reasons for people hating Silva is stupid. You can play devil’s advocate with anyone of those topics and find a fighter who has fallen into the same category as Silva but proven to avoid being hated.
Basically, it doesn’t matter who or what you are or even where you are from but whether your personality can transcend beyond the skills and abilities you bring into a fight. Because a fighter wins or losses does not justify being liked or disliked, it still will always come down to how they handle the outcome of the fight.
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