Muhammed "King Mo" Lawal Talks James Toney's Chances Against Randy Couture at UFC 118
by Kid Nate on Jul 20, 2010 4:56 PM EDT
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MMA Junkie got King Mo to discuss his training with James Toney and King Mo acknowledged that yes, Toney did get him to tap from a choke, but it was a guillotine and not a rear naked choke as Toney had claimed:
Lawal, a former Division I amateur freestyle wrestler at Oklahoma State, was called in to test Toney's ability to stop a takedown. For the most part, it was as he expected. He had no trouble putting the boxer on his back and thought Couture wouldn't either.
"I was thinking, 'This (defense) is isn't going to work,'" Lawal said. "(I'll get the) takedown."
Then Toney began to snake an arm underneath his neck and squeeze for the choke. Suddenly, it wasn't so easy to have his way.
"After about eight tries, he kind of got me," Lawal said of his tap. "I said, 'Damn.' He's kind of strong, too. The dude is kind of strong."
But far more interesting is Mo's assessment of Couture's wrestling going into the bout with Toney:
"It's not like Randy is known for his great double-leg," Lawal said. "Randy is a Greco-Roman wrestler. He took down Tim Syliva, and he took down other guys who really couldn't move or people who came at him. But you know, we'll see. No one knows what happens.
"No one gave Ray Mercer a chance against Tim Sylvia, and Ray Mercer went out there and knocked out Tim Sylvia with the first punch he threw. You never know what's going to happen. Things surprise you."
He also talked about Toney's boxing:
"I have yet to spar with him, thank goodness," Lawal said. "He's still in that boxing mode. I've seen him sparring, and I'm not sure if I want to take any part of that business just yet."
King Mo is a very astute student of the game, as anyone who heard Luke's interview with him on MMA Nation can attest. He's also a bit of a freestyle wrestling snob who tends to look down on the efficacy of Greco and folkstyle wrestlers (think Ben Askren) in an MMA context.
We'll find out at UFC 118 how Couture vs Toney goes, but I'm finding myself far more intrigued by Dana White's "freak show" than I ever thought I would be. It could be a very ugly fight between two 40 somethings whose better days are long past. It is much more likely to be a one-sided beat down in favor of whichever fighter is able to control the range of the fight.
Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing it.
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Randy isn't *known* for his double-leg...
…but he certainly has one, as seen in his fights against Rizzo. He hasn’t used it more recently because the guys he’s been fighting since Liddell all know how to sprawl. And considering how cerebral Randy is it’s crazy to think he hasn’t been practicing it. I’m calling this know – double-leg in the first 30 seconds.
by CaptainArmbar on Jul 20, 2010 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
cerebral, haha
master gameplanner randy couture’s master gameplan is always: clinch against cage, dirty box. repeat for 15 minutes.
randy has no problem putting on a snoozer if it goes that way (see his fight with vera). this will be a one sided fight for couture. I doubt he’s dumb enough to stand with toney, especially since shawn tompkins doesn’t work for him anymore.
Well except for
When he boxed with Chuck to close the distance. Or when he worked the gator roll because he knew Mike Van Arsdale would be shooting in on him. Or when he kickboxed Sylvia. He’ll shoot on Toney because Toney hasn’t got the wrestling to stop it.
by CaptainArmbar on Jul 20, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And honestly,
what are the odds Captain America gets caught in some rookie guillotine during a shot AND doesn’t have the presence of mind to defend properly?
Nah dude, Toney can submit him.
Big Nog showed just how easy it is to make Randy tap.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jul 20, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Double Legs in MMA
are not the same as they are in freestyle wrestling. MMA Fighters don’t seem to shoot through their opponents. They tend to change levels from the clinch (like John Fitch), which usually results in a single leg, or explode with a tackle from a distance (like GSP).
I think that Randy will have trouble firing from a distance. He’s prob not as explosive as he once was. I’m very interested to see his strategy.
Randy
isn’t as explosive as he once was, true, but I don’t think Toney will offer much in defense of even a mediocre take-down attempt from Randy. This fight isn’t going to last long.
This fight isn’t going to last long.
True, one way or another. I for one do not give this to Randy as a lay-up…Toney KHTFO is quite possible…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
Haters are gonna hate and bitches are gonna bitch...
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 20, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally
I like the “chop double”, where instead of driving forward with the takedown and running through the other guy like a football tackle, you simply kick your leg out and scoop the other guy’s legs. Much less energy consuming, and it’s a great way to finish a double against someone with a good sprawl.
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture- "The Best Never Rest!"
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Jul 20, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh, if you're in range to do that...he's in range to hit you.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 20, 2010 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
If you're in range to do the chop double
then that means you’re already in on the other guy’s hips. He can try to punch the back of your head, but that’s against the rules, and by the time that happens you’ll already be on your ass.
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture- "The Best Never Rest!"
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Jul 20, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s got to get in range.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 20, 2010 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think Toney is going to even try to kick/knee. Maybe he’s working on his guillotine choke or maybe even an uppercut when Couture shoots. Couture definitely isn’t as fast as he use to be so I think he’s going to try to close the distance and just go for the body clinch then takedown. Well see. I ’m pretty excited for this
by GoldenSt8OfMind on Jul 20, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
finally
Golden offers a balanced view on a fight between two legit fighting legends. It’s ignorance to clas Toney with the likes of Slice, Walker and especially Canseco!
That’s why I’m going with Toney.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 20, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought it was an Obama joke.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 20, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd for invoking such greatness upon me.
I remember that thread. Didn’t get to see it through. Back then I was a fool. Spent my days ‘working’….
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 20, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
DeoWade is an idiot
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 20, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Little harsh there
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
Do explain?
I get more rec's then a Toyota!
by DayGeaux on Jul 20, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
This little tidbit is intriguing
He’s also a bit of a freestyle wrestling snob who tends to look down on the efficacy of Greco and folkstyle wrestlers (think Ben Askren) in an MMA context.
Because although most people think that freestyle & folkstyle are the same thing, they’re actually quite different.
Freestyle is similar to the “folkstyle” wrestling popular in American schools and universities, but with different scoring, match procedures, and strategies. Freestyle and Greco-Roman place little emphasis on control, while folkstyle, control is very important. In freestyle, wrestlers are brought to their feet after about 15 seconds of no scoring. Since control isn’t important, the bottom wrestler isn’t expected to do anything but stall. Only at the college level does folkstyle control time equate to extra points.
Another difference related to control is the ability in freestyle to score points without having control of your oponent. Some moves such as tilts, front headlocks from the knees, and crotch lifts while under attack can score continuously without ever gaining control. The pictures show first a common set-up for a front headlock without being in control while the second picture shows a crotch lift being used to counter a leg attack.
Slips are another major difference between freestyle and folkstyle. In freestyle, the attacker is not penalized for attempting a move provided he can make it to his knees (belly facing the mat) on the mat after a failed attempt. Also, for this reason, the attacker’s move does not end until there is a slip or the referee blows the whistle. The wrestler being attacked must actually take the move away by reversing direction or preventing the attacker from making it back to his belly. Simply stopping a move with the attacker exposed does not constitute an exposure. Current rules allow the wrestling to continue after a slip with no points scored to the person on top.
It’s also noteworthy that in freestyle, slams aren’t prohibited, so they have a little more emphasis on throws. Folkstyle, on the other hand, places a good deal of emphasis on control, and that’s likely why Askren has such great positional control for such a novice BJJ player.
Source: http://blackmagic.com/ses/wrest/reference/fsrulesnew.html
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture- "The Best Never Rest!"
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Jul 20, 2010 4:45 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
With Toney, if he is just started wrestling and BJJ very recently, I cannot see him do well on the ground at all if/when the fight gets there. It would not surprise me at all if Toney gave up his back right away if the fight hits the floor especially considering how new he is to that part of the game. Also, Toney, as far as I can tell, only uses his hands, so say if Couture shoots in for a double leg, I doubt that Couture would have to worry about a knee coming in, but maybe an uppercut. Couture would be wise, and he probably knows this, not to stand and trade for too long. Even Koscheck knew not to stand with Daley, and just found the right opportunity to take him down, and Couture should do the same.
Toney's done if he goes to the ground just like Kimbo
by GoldenSt8OfMind on Jul 20, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
yep
in the coveted, most suspicious fight of the year.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 20, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not saying it was a work, they probably just sucked that bad.
There’s a point in the fight where Mercer just covers up for about 5 seconds while Kimbo dishes out some of the worse strikes he could throw. You have to think with Kimbo’s soft chin and Ray’s ridiculously insane power, if Ray would have even touched Kimbo it would have been over. The fight ends with Mercer apparently rolling right into a terrible guillotine. He may very well have gotten choked out, he did look pretty out of it afterward.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 20, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Kinda
Mercer ‘sweeps’ Kimbo, who was baiting(?) him into a guillotine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZWQn-Rvg-U
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 20, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a great link.
If anything it shows just how fast you can get in on a guy without him being able to react. Couture should have no problems doing exactly what Kimbo did to start this fight.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Not only was that fight a possible work, it wasn’t even a professional MMA match. It was an “exhibition” utilizing all the “professional rules of combat.”
by WarToney on Jul 21, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
that fight wasn't a work
it was an amateur mma match. you’re making something out of nothing
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Am I the only one having nightmares about
Ray Mercer vs. Tim Sylvia II happening at UFC 118?
by Matthew DiRienzo on Jul 20, 2010 5:07 PM EDT reply actions
I will say what you all are thinking:
If James Toney KTFO Randy Couture I will cry. =(
by jammushi on Jul 20, 2010 5:08 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Shut up you giant elephant in the room. LA LA LA I can’t hear you
I get more rec's then a Toyota!
by DayGeaux on Jul 20, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Honestly
I think it would be pretty funny. Toney would talk more shit than anyone in the history of the world in that punch drunk voice. It wouldn’t hurt MMA, it’d draw more eyeballs to MMA.
Of course this is likely to end about as well as Jordan playing baseball…….right now when he’s 47, but still, I don’t see what the big deal is if Toney wins.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 20, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did anyone else hear Toney say he's training with his dad?
He really said that. I’m dead serious.
I think its safe to say: Its curtains for the Natural!
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 20, 2010 5:24 PM EDT reply actions
He really did say that
in an interview with Ariel Helwani. He was asked who he was training with and answered: “My dad. King Mo” and so on. It wasn’t really a joke.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 20, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Toney says "I work out with my dad, King Mo, Mousasi..."
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/7/6/1555218/ariel-helwani-interviews-james
Check out 2:32.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 20, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
i hope it goes the distance
just to fuck with everyones minds
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
Randy by buttscoot, then flying guard pull. Aoki style. He could do it too, cause it’s James Toney.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Truculence, Belligerence, & Pugnacity
I don’t even know BJJ and I honestly might be able to submit James Toney. As long we started on the ground and he promised not to hit me. :P
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 20, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I predict Toney will gas like hell if the fight hits the ground. David Haye said something similar, but after a career of boxing, I think any sort of grappling will absolutely destroy his cardio, he’s just not used to it. A few months training will make little difference when he’s had a whole career of doing something completely different. For the likes of wrestlers who are used to grappling it is a completely different scenario.
"Ten more seconds is all I ever ask. That's the good thing I learned about being KO'd twice. You don't see it coming -it's like death- you don't plan for it so don't wait for it. So many people are afraid of getting Ko'd that their hands stay home, but not me. I got to go out there and shoot the lights out and fall down" Jens Pulver
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