K.J. Noons Thinks Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos Could Compete Against Men Her Own Size
Loretta Hunt responds to a reader email asking about "the talent gap that exists between female and male MMA fighters" by asking her sometimes training partner K.J. Noons to speculate:
"I believe (male vs. female fights) wouldn't be that competitive, but every now and then there is a special athletic woman that can compete with men in fighting," said Noons. "I believe Cris is one of them. Can she be competitive if she fought in the WEC? Yes, she could. Would she be champ? If I knew the answer to that, I'd be a billionaire and I wouldn't be fighting."
Noons said he's caught Santos getting the better of more than a few training partners during sparring and grappling drills around the gym.
"When I see her fight other guys, she's usually beating them up or manhandling them," he said. "When I spar with her, we're just working; I'm giving her work. When she goes full speed on me, she definitely has the power of a man. She throws like a 145-pound man."
Her trainer Eric Del Fierro thinks she would be competitive in the WEC, but not against the top guys in the division:
"She could go in there and do well against some of those guys, but there's still a big difference between men and women and the dynamics of their own strength levels and agility. She doesn't have the foundation of wrestling that some of the guys have in that division. There's no way you could throw her against Urijah Faber or Jose Aldo and expect her to do great."
It's an interesting theoretical question, but certainly not one I would ever want to find out the answer to and for the record neither do Noons or Del Fierro.
I can barely stand to see women punching each other in the face, I certainly wouldn't want to see a man hitting a woman in a prize fight. But it is a testament to Cyborg's abilities that the biggest competitive question about her right now is not what woman might beat her, but whether or not she could hang with the men in her weight class.
Steve Cofield comments:
The best thing women's fighting can do is to show a little patience as the sport catches up to Cyborg. It would also be nice for the promotion to stop recycling the same fighters and take part in actually cultivating some new prospects and future stars.
UPDATE: Just wanted to clarify that despite my emotional reaction of being queasy when I see women getting punched, I support women's MMA 100%. I've enjoyed several women's MMA fights -- just not many on major shows -- and whole-heartedly endorse and encourage the right of individual women to express, explore, compete, content, test themselves and go full-bore into MMA as a career option.
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man vs. woman
Glad you put the proviso halfway through that this should never happen. The spectacle of a man grounding and pounding a woman—no matter how tough—is not something society could ever accept.
█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z
Of course we are only talking about an MMA pounding...
There is another kind of pounding that is more than acceptable. In fact I’d recommend it!
I think they had a case of this in Taiwan with Muay Thai
some girl was unbeatable and they decided to make her fight a man, and got beat up quite bad and KO’d, it’s definitely not something promoters should make happen no matter how great the female fighter appears to be.
Felipe Melo não nasceu, ele foi expulso do útero
Cyborg is the champion of the weakest divison in WMMA
She fought two good fighters that are in her weight class and everyone thinks she should fight men? It’s easy for her to look good when Strikeforce keeps feeding her little girls that are a weight class or two below her.
This is just ridiculous
About half of the posters on here could beat Cyborg in a fight.
It’s biology.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 20, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I can barely stand to see women punching each other in the face, I certainly wouldn’t want to see a man hitting a woman in a prize fight.
I totally agree. The idea of a man hitting a woman has such deep seeded negativity and represents some of the worst of humanity. So much so that it’s not something easily digestible in our society, even when placed in the context of a “fair” fight, and really, I question whether it should be made acceptable at all.
by pud333 on Jul 20, 2010 9:16 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Please someone post a facepalm picture.
Well, anybody who knows me knows I'm no fan of dictionaries or reference books. They're elitist. Constantly telling us what is or isn't true. Or what did or didn't happen.
here

"Players are gods, the stands are the pews, football is the new religion."
by DamnSevern on Jul 20, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Cyborg isn't even that good of a fighter to be fighting men
Her technique is sloppy and she wins fights by having a huge strength and speed advantage over the girls she fights. If she fights a man, she loses all of those advantages.
by MMAGuard on Jul 20, 2010 9:26 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Well...
I agree to a point. I haven’t seen anyone in the WEC she could beat, but that’s only ‘cause the girl fights with ZERO defense. Against the girls, that’s okay, but it would get her killed against someone her own strength and any talent.
She has a good offense, and is strong enough to hang with a lot of guys, but would need a much more defensive style.
Just be clear, I'm not accusing you of anything...

by truck on Jul 20, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
That's actually an OOOOOLD one
And thus with legitimate reason to be there.
Kid
That is so sexist. Why does it not bother you when men get hit in the face? Your problems women not being able to handle women doing it stems from your pre- conceived notions of gender roles which is your own problem but you preach about growing mms and yet you say something like that about womens mms. Sad really…
by yin hsiung on Jul 20, 2010 9:55 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
So you're cool with a man hitting a woman in the cage?
Because I’m with Nate; that would make me profoundly uncomfortable.
I rarely tweet
I less-rarely write
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
I don't think he is
I think he’s cool with women hitting women in the face and wonders why Kid Nate isn’t.
I wonder that, too. What, women aren’t suppose to compete ion combat sports? What’s up with that? Next thing you now, they’ll wanna vote and own property, too!
"Overdrive the sound and make it sound pretty rude." - Jimmy Page
I didn't say I wasn't cool with women's mma
I said it made me feel uncomfortable. Intellectually I’m all for women being all they can be.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jul 20, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for honesty
I am the same.
Forever indebted to CroCop's left leg for getting me into MMA
by Well Read Idiot on Jul 20, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm sorry
I am all for women doing what they want to do. I just can’t help my emotional reaction when I see women getting hit in the face.
If it makes you feel any better, the first time I saw a live MMA fight from cage side I almost got sick from the first punch and slam. The brutality of it really hit home when I could feel the thuds of impact.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Matt Hughes said that while standing next to Toughill on Inside MMA
She understood. I thought the whole thing was really akward to watch though.
What ever if a women want's to get in the cage with a man I say let her.
If they want to throw like a man they can get hit by a man.
Ride the Tiger!
by doonerthesooner on Jul 20, 2010 10:05 AM EDT reply actions
I can’t believe some douche waited for her to fall to take a pic. Lame
Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)
She’s using cheats and warping to world 4.
by DirtyML on Jul 20, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Had to think about that one for a second.. then, I laughed a little. rec
by Horselover Fat on Jul 20, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions

I wish Andy Kaufman was still with us. I think the world’s first inter-gender wrestling champion would be up to the challenge of fighting Cristiane.
by Bandaka on Jul 20, 2010 10:46 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Boom
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Jul 20, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
No.
Just no. Jan Finney landed like 10 clean shots that Cyborg was able to eat and continue pounding the fuck out of Finney. Doesn’t work like that with men.
Oh boy

"Dodger fans aren’t happy when foul balls get into their section, because it interferes with their playing with the beachball"- Mike Krukow
by 49er16 on Jul 20, 2010 11:14 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
A lot of you have a lot of “Rescue the Princess” notions about women.
by splint on Jul 20, 2010 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I’m good with that as long as don’t go all the way through life pulling up radom crap from the ground just to later find out it was all a dream
I get more rec's then a Toyota!
I hated that ending.. you end up feeling cheated
by Horselover Fat on Jul 20, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Its easy to think that way. Until you actually know a woman. :P
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 20, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
It would never be fair
Reguardless of how strong or athletic a wemon athlete is, a mans bones have more mass and are genetically built different between hormones, muscle development and most importantly, Testosterone.
from Wikipedia
- On average, an adult human male body produces about ten times more testosterone than an adult human female body, but females are, from a behavioral perspective (rather than from an anatomical or biological perspective), more sensitive to the hormone.
& if the male athelete is just as conditioned and athletic as well as experienced, the male will always have the advantage just for being a male. (to all wemon reading this, i’m not being bias whatsoever , these are just facts.) With that said, Cyborg deffinitely is not your average female and i’m sure she has a much higher testosterone level than your average female athlete aswell. Thats from a technical outlook, if you want my opinion, I believe she could do work to a dudes face, but like stated above, sociecty wouldn’t and will never accept the concept of a man and woman competing in combat rugardless if it’s consensual.
The only thing that is clear to all humans is simplicity.
by MrTechnique420 on Jul 20, 2010 12:26 PM EDT reply actions
excuse my typo’s
The only thing that is clear to all humans is simplicity.
by MrTechnique420 on Jul 20, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Devil's avdocate here
Just for the sake of discussion…
-Cyborg trains primarily with men at a camp where the sparring sessions are legendary for being brutal.
-Other than her first fight, she has crumpled every opponent in front of her. She makes it look easy and unfair.
-I have seen her workout sessions on video. She is a machine, regardless of her sex.
-Do you really think she couldn’t compete with some of the Men’s 145ers in DREAM? I think she’d shock some people. I’m not saying she’d win a belt but I bet she’d win some fights against men.
That said, I get what people are saying about the spectacle of a women getting gnp’d by a dude. That would be pretty sickening and just cannot happen in a sport that’s already bombarded with social criticism. But for the sake of discussion, I really think she could beat some male fighters at her weight.
Putting a man and a woman at the same weight together is like putting two men together at the same weight but one is allowed to use PEDs and the other isn’t. Men produce more testosterone and other hormones that help in the production of muscle mass and change their psychology.
I fully support WMMA but would be very against a male vs female bout.
HTML5 + WebM now! Death to Flash!!!
A 145lb male fighter is built a lot different than Cyborg. She could beat a regular guys, but a trained male fighter her size is going to be way stronger and more powerful. A Jose Aldo leg kick would destroy her leg. Two reasons: women have lower bone density and for unknown reasons, women are much more prone the ACL tears. Testosterone alone would give a huge edge to the male, but then again, Cyborg seems to be getting her fair share of testosterone.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 20, 2010 4:05 PM EDT reply actions
I'm reminded of It's Always Sunny
“See kids, that’s 18-0. Technique don’t mean shit if you got no strength.”
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 20, 2010 11:20 PM EDT reply actions
she’s definitely got some strength. She’s probably stronger than most men who don’t train and a lot who do. A lot of it is hand strength and core strength, she’s got way more of both of those than most guys. Not to mention she’s a far more experienced and skilled fighter than 99% of the male population. I’d also wager to say that she’s got a little more testosterone in her system than your average dude. Once a female gets that extra little boost of T, that gender gap closes real quickly.
"You think you're too cool for school but I got a newsflash for you, Walter Cronkite. You aren't. "
by B.H. Farnsworth on Jul 20, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
She would get smashed – SMASHED – by the worst male fighter at her weight class on Earth.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 21, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions

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