UFC 119 Could Have Featured Quinton "Rampage" Jackson vs Lyoto Machida and Rashad Evans vs Antonio Rogerio "Little Nog" Nogueira
by Kid Nate on Jul 19, 2010 2:59 PM EDT
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From Dave Meltzer's Wrestling Observer (subscription required):
UFC 119 on 9/25 in Indianapolis will have the Nogueira Brothers in the double main event. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira faces Frank Mir in a rematch of their 2008 match, and Antonio Rogerio Nogueira faces Ryan Bader. I'm just looking for the finish where Mir is beating the crap out of Rodrigo, Ed Soares distracts the ref and Rogerio runs in and guillotines him. Also interesting because Rodrigo Nogueira was Bader's coach on TUF and the two remained pretty close after the show.
The original idea for this show was to headline with Lyoto Machida vs. Quinton Jackson and Rogerio Nogueira vs. Rashad Evans, but both Jackson and Evans turned down the fight.
...
Jackson was wanting Rogerio Nogueira, but I guess they are still working on getting him against Machida. Machida was wanting Evans and manager Ed Soares asked for it to be an interim title match since Shogun Rua won't be back until March. Evans doesn't want to fight until March.
There is talk now of matching Jackson with Forrest Griffin when Griffin fully recovers from shoulder surgery. Rodrigo Nogueira has been wanting Mir again since he was in poor shape due to a knee injury and a staph infection in the first fight that Mir beat an almost zombie-like Nogueira.
This news is a little old, but I wanted to get to it because it outlines what a difficult job Joe Silva really has. They had a great idea for a no-title UFC: feature the two guys who just headlined UFC 114, the biggest no-title PPV in company history.
Unfortunately, Rashad Evans is going to camp out until he gets a title shot. And given the precarious state of champ Mauricio "Shogun" Rua's knees, that could be a long long while. Which is too bad because Antonio Rogerio "Little Nog" Nogueira stands an excellent chance of beating Rashad and earning a rematch against Shogun. For those who don't know, the 2005 Shogun vs Little Nog fight is one of the all time classics of MMA history. Not to mention that Rashad's wrestling + unconventional striking attack against Nog's BJJ + disciplined southpaw boxing game would be a very compelling tactical chess match.
Instead Nog gets a very very tough test against up and coming wrestler Ryan Bader. While I'm looking forward to this fight as a fan, only the Nogueira warrior spirit has him taking that match. It's a very tough fight against a guy who's not yet a big name in the sport.
But at least he's getting a fight. Former UFC champ Lyoto Machida is straight-up stuck on the shelf. Rampage is tied up with additional A-Team promotional duties, but it's also no surprise that he's not interested in a fight against the elusive Machida. He's gone on the record in the past saying that Machida was "too boring" for him to promote.
This goes to show that, despite the fantasies of fans, the UFC's near-monopoly on the sport does NOT guarantee fans the fights they want to see.
As ever, life is more complicated than that.
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This goes to show that, despite the fantasies of fans, the UFC’s near-monopoly on the sport does NOT guarantee fans the fights they want to see.
I think he meant this for you, subo.
http://www.instrength.com
BUT I WANT IT TO
DANAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! MAKE EM FIGHT. PLEASE DAANNNNAAAAAA!!!!
watchkalibrun.com
by Zak Woods on Jul 19, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
does that make mmalogic Augustus Gloop?
I throw raps that attack like the Japs on Pearl Harbor/MC's be out like bank robbers/Fleeing the scene, to be a sole survivor/DJ the getaway driver/Tried to dip but he dive, I socialize on vocal vibes/On tracks stabbed up with razor sharp knives
by Anthony Pace on Jul 19, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Jesus
At least they’re trying. And when they do try to force fighters to do things, they’re accused of treating them like slaves.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 19, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
As to your final comments about matchmaking
I agree, however that monopoly on talent at least brings us a little closer to those matchups then not.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
close only counts
in horseshoes and hand grenades.
we were “close” to seeing Wandy vs Chuck numerous times during the PRIDE era and never got it.
being “close” to matchups doesn’t justify supporting a rapacious monopoly that is bad on the fighters
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Fair
But like Truck says it’s easier to jump through one hoop than two. And I think it’s a whole hell of a lot better than the alternative.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
I agree...
No matter what they have planned a fighter can say “No”, but avoiding all the there promotional politics and shenanigans is a big possitive IMO
Come on
We’re waaaaaay closer now, and Wandy/Chuck would’ve happened in 2005 if Pride had been exposed as the fraud it was earlier in the decade.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 19, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
also could've happend in '03 if, you know, Rampage hadn't beat the shit out of Chuck...
Just sayin’
I throw raps that attack like the Japs on Pearl Harbor/MC's be out like bank robbers/Fleeing the scene, to be a sole survivor/DJ the getaway driver/Tried to dip but he dive, I socialize on vocal vibes/On tracks stabbed up with razor sharp knives
by Anthony Pace on Jul 19, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, or if Pride did for the UFC what the UFC did for Pride…
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 19, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
bustin ya chops
I throw raps that attack like the Japs on Pearl Harbor/MC's be out like bank robbers/Fleeing the scene, to be a sole survivor/DJ the getaway driver/Tried to dip but he dive, I socialize on vocal vibes/On tracks stabbed up with razor sharp knives
by Anthony Pace on Jul 19, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s a line around the corner these days
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 19, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I get to cut in line
I’ve got one of these babies:
I throw raps that attack like the Japs on Pearl Harbor/MC's be out like bank robbers/Fleeing the scene, to be a sole survivor/DJ the getaway driver/Tried to dip but he dive, I socialize on vocal vibes/On tracks stabbed up with razor sharp knives
by Anthony Pace on Jul 19, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
well done
thanks for bringing some more clarity to the situation/debate.
"she told me she was on the pill." me
i'm definitely not
while I don’t necessarily agree 100% w/allowing a fighter to dictate/pick/choose his future fight(s) based on how “exciting” or “boring” they may be (to the fighter himself), or b/c the opponent is a friend/training partner, you have given me a much clearer insight into just how difficult it is to put a card together given all the variables that go into it.
"she told me she was on the pill." me
i was just teasing
because i’m so used to these posts getting teh hate
thanks for the kind words!
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
The murky waters of the LHW division
The article brings up a very valid point. The entire LHW division is set in limbo right now. Forrest and especially Shogun have been prone to injury, making matchmaking with them a gamble and nobody seems to want to fight Machida because of his unorthodox ability to win and also because of his lack of raw promotional capability as well. Rampage’s head doesn’t appear to truly be in the fight game anymore and Rogerio isn’t coming off looking like number one contender material after his lackluster and controversial win over Jason Brilz.
The thought that comes to mind first is an interim title but as we have seen in the past, interim titles are often viewed and dubbed fake titles and hold almost no true value. With Shogun constantly being injured, scheduling and arranging for title fights remains sketchy. In the case of an interim title situation, who should be the fighters vying for the title?
I think Rashad and Rogerio is the only one that makes sense. Rashad shouldn’t have to fight the guy that lost to the champ when he’s on a 2 fight win streak and was promised a title shot. Rogerio is the only one that is on an upward trajectory.
Simply make a public announcement
Winner of Little Nog – Bader fights Rashad for the interim title or, if Rashad is unwilling to do so, winner gets winner of Jones-Maty for next in line.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
"The fox devises many strategies, the hedgehog only one, but he uses is very effectively." -Archilochus
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 19, 2010 2:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think Rashad and Rogerio is the only one that makes sense. Rashad shouldn’t have to fight the guy thatlost to the champ when he’s on a 2 fight win streaktook his title and make him look like an amateur while he did it (and would derail his title shot just as easily), and was promised a title shot. Rogerio is the only one that is on an upward trajectory.
Fixed that for you. Evans isn’t avoiding Machida because Machida isn’t worthy of fighting him, its cause he got clowned the last time. Look for Machida to have a helluva a hard time getting a title shot if Evans regains the title.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
I don't see anything that says Evans/Machida was offered
The only person who said anything was Soares so can people stop with the BS Evans is ducking Machida meme.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 19, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
The original idea for this show was to headline with Lyoto Machida vs. Quinton Jackson and Rogerio Nogueira vs. Rashad Evans, but both Jackson and Evans turned down the fight.
That’s from Meltzer’s article. At this point I think Evans is going to turn down any fight not for the title. I don’t really see it as him “ducking” anyone though, he earned the title shot, it’s his right to wait for it.
That's Evans vs Lil Nog, not Evans vs Machida.
Please read what I said and read what you just posted.
Thank you.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 19, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
This was on BE a little over a week ago
“I’m really not in a rush to fight right now – I’m ready, but I just want to fight the best fighters,” Evans said. “I know he fought Machida when he was hurt, so I can wait to fight the best Shogun. I’m not like, ‘Ahhh – I need to fight! I need to fight!’ There’s a lot of things I can do with my time when I’m not fighting.”
And while Machida’s manager, Ed Soares, has said publicly he believes there should be an interim title fight between the two former champs, Evans said – from a preparation standpoint, at least – it’s not something he needs to do.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/7/11/1563933/rashad-evans-happy-to-wait-for-ufc
What? I didn't break it, I was just testing its durability, and then I placed it in the woods becuase it's made out of wood and I just thought he should be with his family.
Revenge of the Birds
That was in response to Ed Soares wanting Machida/Evans 2
NOT him turning down an offered fight.
So again, I’m tired of people saying he’s ducking Machida.
I hate internet fans.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 19, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
This was on BE a little over a week ago
"I’m really not in a rush to fight right now – I’m ready, but I just want to fight the best fighters," Evans said. "I know he fought Machida when he was hurt, so I can wait to fight the best Shogun. I’m not like, ‘Ahhh – I need to fight! I need to fight!’ There’s a lot of things I can do with my time when I’m not fighting."
And while Machida’s manager, Ed Soares, has said publicly he believes there should be an interim title fight between the two former champs, Evans said – from a preparation standpoint, at least – it’s not something he needs to do.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/7/11/1563933/rashad-evans-happy-to-wait-for-ufc
What? I didn't break it, I was just testing its durability, and then I placed it in the woods becuase it's made out of wood and I just thought he should be with his family.
Revenge of the Birds
Crap
post fail
What? I didn't break it, I was just testing its durability, and then I placed it in the woods becuase it's made out of wood and I just thought he should be with his family.
Revenge of the Birds
Machida
Who else would be a good match-up at this point?
There is no one in the top 5 that can fight him at the moment.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Franklin or Griffin, but I believe both of them would get tooled. Griffin said a while back in an interview that he was “terrified” of Machida, so I doubt he’d take that fight.
The fan in me really wants to see Machida vs. Jones, it would be a real test for Jones. But i guess we will have to see how he handles the Janitor first.
First post ever on B.E. so please provide lube before verbally raping me
by Clay Davis on Jul 19, 2010 2:32 PM EDT reply actions 8 recs
Well said
Neither Machida nor Jones can find anyone willing to fight them it seems. I would love to see that one as well, but it is too difficult to predict how it might go.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
"The fox devises many strategies, the hedgehog only one, but he uses is very effectively." -Archilochus
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 19, 2010 2:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
did someone turn down a fight with Jones?
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 19, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Machida vs. Jones
The main reason I want to see that fight is because I have no idea how it would go. With Franklin or Griffin I would lean towards Machida.
Jones seems green still, I really think his fight with the Janitor could show us how fast they should promote him. If he walks through Vladdy then I say promote him now. Because the Janitor is no easy prey.
Jones would absolutely ruin Rampage
I can’t see any scenario that has Rampage willing to take that beating.
He will be fed a diet of cupcake “name” fighter (some entertaining matches to be sure) with zero impact on the title picture.
Unless Dana lays out a cakewalk for him (due to his PPV drawing power) in the unlikely event Rashad beats Rua, Rampage has already seen his last chance at a title shot come and go.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
"The fox devises many strategies, the hedgehog only one, but he uses is very effectively." -Archilochus
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 19, 2010 2:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
sheeeeiittt
"How you expect to run with the wolves come night when you spend all day sparring with the puppies" - Omar Little
by The Omaplatapus on Jul 19, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hahaha
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
by PapaBumpants on Jul 19, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t find a list of cupcake “names” at LHW. He already beat Vera:) There just aren’t a bunch of those guys out there to fight. If they want to slowplay Jon for a whole year, they’re going to run out of opponents real quick.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 20, 2010 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually, I was referring to Rampage, not Jones.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
"The fox devises many strategies, the hedgehog only one, but he uses is very effectively." -Archilochus
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 20, 2010 10:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
First post ever on B.E. so please provide lube before verbally raping me
rec’d for preparation
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
H
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
by James Brady on Jul 19, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
boom
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Jul 19, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
rec'd for Clay Davis
or any non-beaten-to-death Wire reference
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Jul 19, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll be gentle. Randy has expressed interest in fighting Lyoto, so they could make that fight, and Rich would be a good fight as well. I’d love to see Machida/Jones after Jon’s had another fight or two. But I’d really prefer they just pressure Rampage to go take his beating like a man.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 20, 2010 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions
He also wrote repeatedly in his book that he was terrified of Anderson Silva
and that Silva was the best on the planet, but he took that fight.
he also said he was terrified of Lil Nog and that it was a terrible matchup for him, and he took that fight too, until he got injured. its typical Forrest, talk himself down so there’s less disappointment in a loss and more good feelings about a win
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Jul 20, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Makes me a little sad being from Indy and all. I’m still pumped to see this card live though.
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton
Whether or not the UFC has a monopoly has nothing to do with these fights not happening.
These fights aren’t materializing for reasons and circumstances beyond the UFCs control. However, that doesn’t mean competition, co-promotion or whatever is a better alternative. In fact, it’s much worse since it piles on a thousand other complications in making fights happen, and as you yourself are arguing right now, there are already plenty complications to go around.
An MMA monopoly, or centralized talent, IS the best way to guarantee that the best fights have the best chance of happening.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis
Bader vs Lil Nog will be a good matchup.
… But, Big Nog vs. Mir is not something I’m particularly interested in seeing.
For me, I like to see fighters who have some kind of “title track” and neither one of these guys do (in my opinion). Mir can not beat Lesnar, nor can Big Nog. This fight shouldn’t be a main event card, because it leads nowhere.
If Mir wins, do you think he fights anyone in the top 5? How about Big Nog? If so, would you pay $49.95 to see that?
I just don’t like these fights of guys who are outmatched and really should start moving to another weight class.
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Jul 19, 2010 2:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Perhaps a "catch-weight" class is wht's needed?
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Jul 19, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
That's contingent upon Brock though.
Plus, there is no doubt that if Mir was to Cain was to lose to Mir, that Brock couldn’t beat Mir in a rematch.
The last match wasn’t even close in Mir’s favor!
Semper Fi
by ChicagoMarine on Jul 19, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
If I was Rashad...
I wouldn’t fight either. Why should he have to? He earned his title shot. I hate when the UFC reneges on their offer because the champion is hurt. “Yeah, I know we promised you that, buuuuttt….”
Interim titles are a bane on the organization. Shogun’s only gonna be out for 6-7 months. If Rashad wants to bide his time until then, good for him. Why? He’s earned it and he’s making the UFC keep their promise.
As for Rampage, yeah, there’s no excuse, he’s clownshoes.
by BVandDietPepsi on Jul 19, 2010 2:39 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
As Rampage publicly reveals his slide
From contender to fringe top-10 / glorified gatekeeper status…
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
"The fox devises many strategies, the hedgehog only one, but he uses is very effectively." -Archilochus
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 19, 2010 2:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Man, you’ve really got it in for Rampage. Let him lose another fight before you write him off.
http://www.instrength.com
Ha! I guess it does come across that way,
But I really don’t, although I am a little pissed at the way he has basically squandered what he might have been though.
I just don’t think he belongs in the category of potential title holders, particularly after publicly ducking fights, whatever the reason.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." -Author Schopenhauer
"The fox devises many strategies, the hedgehog only one, but he uses is very effectively." -Archilochus
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 19, 2010 3:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m feeling pretty done with Rampage myself. I know he’s a big star and an action hero now, but he’s a long way removed from holding the belt, and has a bit of a primadonna attitude going these days.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 20, 2010 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Rampage isn’t in it to prove he is the best 205 lb fighter. I have no problem with him taking entertaining fights that are good matchups for him. Not everyone can be titleholders, title contenders, or gatekeepers. And I’ll take Rampage’s type of fighting any day over the safest-path-to-victory mentality of Rashad and others.
That said, if Rampage starts saying he is the baddest fighter at 205, I’ll take back this comment. And yes, he is clownshoes.
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -Will Munny, a known thief and murderer, a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition.
by PapaBumpants on Jul 19, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah but Machida would be an entertaining fight.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
By Rampage’s type of fighting do you mean regressing in skills, speed, cardio and gameplanning, staggering around woodenly and waiting for his opponent to blunder into the pocket where Rampage can throw a barrage of hooks? No thanks. I’d rather see Rampage remember his wrestling and Muay Thai, rebuild his speed, and look like he’s really interested in fighting again.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 20, 2010 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Makes me long for the days of Chuck.
That was the attitude I loved. Fuck it, I’ll fight anybody they put in front of me. None of this, I’ll just wait for my title shot or No, I’d rather fight him instead of him. If I was a fighter I would be dying to fight Machida. What a bunch of bullshit.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
by Geno Mrosko on Jul 19, 2010 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Yeah the days of Chuck
Where Dana matched him up against piss poor strikers and wrestlers or ground guys who he could avoid the takedown. When matched up against real strikers (Rampage X 2, Evans, Jardine), he got shown for what he was…protected.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 19, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it was more the talent pool
Who else during Chuck’s reign didn’t get a shot? They threw him against the best wrestler of the time in Tito. And they pit him against Randy during his best years. I don’t remember there being any strikers coming from that era that were better than Chuck that were in the UFC. Chuck was THE striker in LHW in the UFC at the time.
I get more rec's then a Toyota!
Hmmm, no LHW strikers? That's odd
I wonder who hired the fighters?
I mean people talk about WAND being brotected, but he fought Page twice, Arona, etc.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 19, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
All I’m saying is who on the roster at LHW in the UFC during Chuck’s reign did he not face. A. Silva could have come up from MW, but that was around the time Chuck started doing worse. The only time they’ve “protected” him was recently, but they still made him fight Page and Wand.
I get more rec's then a Toyota!
You're a fucking hater.
Going with the revisionism I see. Suddenly Chuck was garbage and he never really beat anybody. Get the fuck out of here with that crap. He never decided who to fight. And I’m not talking about wins or losses. I’m talking about a guy being willing to fight whoever, whenever. That was his attitude. He fought all the best. Even up to this point. His last 4 fights are Rampage, Rashad, Shogun and Franklin.
These fucking fighters now are trying so hard to have to avoid fighting each other that it’s disgusting.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
by Geno Mrosko on Jul 19, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I never said he was garbage. Please quote me where I said that.
I never said anything about Chuck actively not trying to fight the best.
I do realize, however, that he was the cash cow and the KEY to the UFC’s resurgance and Dana knew that. And I believe Dana matched him up with guys who couldn’t strike and were primarily grapplers. With Chuck’s TD being as good as it was, he could keep the fight off the ground. Never do I blame Chuck in that. Same as PRIDE “protecting” Fedor/Wand with easy fights in between the hard ones. All of this was business. And smart.
He was matched up with Jackson (against Jackson’s will as he wanted another fight) because he wanted to get his win back from Japan. From that point, you forgot Jardine in between Rampage and Rashad and Wand after that. Jardine was coming off getting demolished by Houston and was thought to be an easy win for Chuck (by Dana),. He lost and was then paired up for a money fight with WAND who was coming off two devastating KO losses. He beat WAND and was said to be “one win away from a title shot.”
Let’s put him up against a wrestler who thinks he can strike but just barely beat Mike Bisping and drawed with Tito Ortiz in Rashad Evans. This was a classic Chuck matchup vs a wrestler except Rashad didnn’t wrestle, he KHTFO.. Then Shogun fought Mark Coleman and barely pulled out a win and looked terrible in doing so. Dana confronts Shogun IN the locker room after the fight and says “You’re fighting Chuck next, ok?” Here you have a guy with a name that’s looked terrible in his past two fights and has a history on knee injuries. Then he kOs Chuck.
I’m not saying Chuck is a punk or anything. I believe Chuck will fight anyone and I admire him for it. But if you can’t see that Chuck was partially protected by Zuffa during that run then I don’t know what to say. And I don’t BLAME them for doing it. It made perfect business sense.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 19, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Here is the deal.
I don’t give a shit if they were trying to “protect him”.
All I care about is the attitude he always had, which was to fight anyone, anytime. You never heard about Chuck saying no he didn’t want to take certain fights at certain times. Rampage has no reason to not want to fight Machida right now. They are both coming off losses to the number 1 and 2 ranked guys. What good reason is there to not fight?
I’m just talking about the attitude of Chuck. Not whether he won or lost or whether Dana White tried his best to protect him. I’m talking about his willingness to fight anyone.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
by Geno Mrosko on Jul 20, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah-ah-ah temper temper
I was merely commenting on Chuck being protected.
And honestly, he’s never been in a position to “refuse” fights because he wasn’t offered fights that were dangerous to him. He was never going to get an elite striker like Machida offered to him, Dana wouldn’t allow it.
And I couldn’t care less what Rampage does but a good reason is you don’t want to chance a two-fight losing streak. Or you want to fight someone that you can have an exciting fight with. Who knows?
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 20, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Personally, I am not too upset. Bader vs Nog should be a good fight.
Rampage vs Nog and Evans vs Nog all sound good too though.
One way or another, I think we will see Evans facing the winner of one of the upcoming LHW matches Bader / Nog, Franklin / Griffin, Machida / whoever for the Interim Title. It will probably be on the New Years card with GSP vs Koscheck.
Pretty excited for Lil Nog vs. Bader
Bader is one of my favorite young guns in the UFC. He is pretty disciplined at following a game plan and hopefully he follows the same gamplan Jason Brilz use against lil Nog
by Matthew DiRienzo on Jul 19, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know that Brilz gameplan will work.
Brilz utilized a lot of BJJ, Bader isn’t as good at that. I think the fact that Brilz was a replacement played a huge factor in things, honestly, and I don’t particularly care for either fighter. Still, as noted, should be a great fight to see.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
by James Brady on Jul 19, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s obvious that Jackson doesn’t wanna fight Machida.. a 2 fight losing streak doesn’t look good for anyone.
Jackson is just thinking about this pay check
I don’t think Jackson is scared to fight Machida. I think he is more worried that Machida might not be able to carry his weight in terms of promoting the fight and being a draw. I am assuming, and only assuming, that Jackson gets a percentage of the PPV gross and thinks fighting with Machida won’t allow him to capitalize on that like fighting Forrest again or some other more marketable LHW.
by Matthew DiRienzo on Jul 19, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
-The paycheck issue isn’t an issue. They could just put him on a card with another big drawing fight.
-You’re right that he’s not physically scared/afraid to fight Machida, but he doesn’t want the fight because Machida’s style will annoy the shit out of him.
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Jul 19, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Rampage wasnt given the little nog fight like he wanted was he? Zuffa owed Rashad a fight in this time period so he was offered the little nog fight… nobody expected him to take it because he already earned the title shot beating thiago silva and rampage. It had more to do with Zuffa complying with contractual obligation of offering him a fight….
But in terms of fights that need to happen it’s against the title holder versus the top contender. How a fighter gets to the top is variable… the point of Zuffa’s dominance is so a guy like Tito doesnt duck a guy like chuck. A guy like Brock doesnt duck the Carwins and Cains to take a money fight with Mir for the third time. A guy like Machida doesnt duck shogun, etc… At the end of the day the best will get to the top.
Now you wanna nitpick… Rampage hasnt even been scheduled to fight yet. It could be Macdhida or Forrest – both fights are relevant. You want every non-title fight on a card to relflect what you want to see now also?
Take a moment of silence and be grateful to the current realities lest you be damned with seeing guys getting title shots after losing and #1 guys ducking top contenders so they can take on fringe top 10 guys or the mayweathers of mma skipping out on pacman fights.
boo hoo… instead of getting Rampage/Machida you might get Rampage/Forrest. Call the waaaambulance. Rampage is coming off a loss? Even Machida;s camp isnt calling rampage out. They are calling for Rashad. Rampage’s other option is Forrest – a guy who beat him already. A far cry from a tune up fight.
Stylistically Rashad poses the most interesting fight for Shogun so that’s definitely the fight I want to see.
Spoiled fucking brats. I swear you dont realize how good you have it. We’re living the dream right now.
by mmalogic on Jul 19, 2010 2:47 PM EDT reply actions 8 recs
It’s like fucking Megan Fox and you’re complaining about the mattress. stupid.
by mmalogic on Jul 19, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If I were fucking Megan Fox
It would be in a car.
Transformers (First movie) FTW
Forever indebted to CroCop's left leg for getting me into MMA
by Well Read Idiot on Jul 19, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
If I were fucking Megan Fox
It would be in my dream and maybe last 5 seconds.
by seanerk88 on Jul 20, 2010 3:10 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Megan Fox is so fucking overrated
I throw raps that attack like the Japs on Pearl Harbor/MC's be out like bank robbers/Fleeing the scene, to be a sole survivor/DJ the getaway driver/Tried to dip but he dive, I socialize on vocal vibes/On tracks stabbed up with razor sharp knives
by Anthony Pace on Jul 19, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
You gay (not that there's anything wrong with that)?
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis
Not gay. Just... living in my own little world where I don't fap to this:
I throw raps that attack like the Japs on Pearl Harbor/MC's be out like bank robbers/Fleeing the scene, to be a sole survivor/DJ the getaway driver/Tried to dip but he dive, I socialize on vocal vibes/On tracks stabbed up with razor sharp knives
by Anthony Pace on Jul 19, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I just hate it when fake boobs are spread so far apart. I was so in love with her from Transformers but I feel like every new picture I see of her she looks worse.
Her titties are fake? "Turribull" - Charles Barkley
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 19, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Motherfucking rec.
Megan Fox does pretty much nothing for me. Reading any interviews with her makes her downright awful.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
she's very off-putting
I throw raps that attack like the Japs on Pearl Harbor/MC's be out like bank robbers/Fleeing the scene, to be a sole survivor/DJ the getaway driver/Tried to dip but he dive, I socialize on vocal vibes/On tracks stabbed up with razor sharp knives
by Anthony Pace on Jul 19, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
It would be easier with co-promotion...
Wait, that’s completely fucking insane.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 19, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
After Shogun beat Machida and Rashad beat Thiago and Rampage… Evans is the top contender.
We’re getting the number 1 lhw versus the top contender… a guy who has the most interesting style for shogun no less and this bitch is still whining? So #1 vs #2 fights arent good enough anymore… he also wants to control match making.
Who says Rampage vs Machida is what everyone wants to see? Rampage vs Forrest is just as relevant (forrest is coming off a W and has a win over Shogun) and a forrest fight would do more business. There’s a case for either fight.
Grasping at straws now that they’ve run out of everything else. Next he’ll want Zuffa to create a slyder for him so he can go through multiple rabbit holes and experience all possible dimensions and trajectories for each fighter down to the prelims.
by mmalogic on Jul 19, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
To be honest, that would make the Vault a lot cooler.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 19, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I like this slyder idea
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jul 19, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
as long as there’s no Jerry O’connell I’m in.
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 19, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
lobbyist?
"I am going to burn your fucking house down, but you will blow me first"
by Barack Lesnar on Jul 19, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
I’m just looking for the finish where Mir is beating the crap out of Rodrigo, Ed Soares distracts the ref and Rogerio runs in and guillotines him
It'll be like Chute Boxe jumping KrazyHorse during PRIDE
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 19, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Machida will revert back to his “attack dog for Dana White” status. If anyone pisses off Dana White (whos at lhw), they will have to face Machida. Currently no one @ lhw is pissing off Dana right?
In addition
I think it’s ludicrous to say that Lil Nog has an “excellent chance” to beat Rashad after how he looked against Brilz.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 19, 2010 3:11 PM EDT reply actions
Outside of catching a submission on him
I don’t think Lil Nog wins that fight in any way.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
A TKO is more likely.
Catching Rashad big time up close is much more likely, in my mind.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
by James Brady on Jul 19, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
reply fail
was supposed to be in response to subo’s “Rashad destroys Lil Nog” comment
http://www.instrength.com
That is exactly what I said.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jul 19, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem is Machida and a healthy shogun are just on another level of fighting and noone wants the almost guaranteed loss.
unless of course it's for the title
then they’ll take the loss
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Jul 19, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Machida
Any chance they give him Brillz? I know it isn’t a real sexy match up but Brillz earned another shot at a “name” and Machida seemingly can’t get anyone in the cage with him.
Plus, I know Dana’s building the Bisping-Akiyama card as some sort of payback for the debacle of 112 (That was the Silva-Maia card right??) and having Machida headline a free card would make everything right in my book.
Aside from Brillz I think the following could be viable options for Machida to appear on free TV:
*Hamill – he’d get worked, probably not a good idea but whatever we’d all watch.
*Cane – Can’t reward him for two losses with a Machida fight though.
*Diabatte – If he wins his next fight he’d be due for a step up in competition.
Those were really the only guys I could come up with that wouldn’t be a PPV worthy fight.
Also, don’t kill me because I know I’m dreaming with Machida ever fighting on free TV and I’m sure I’m off with the timeline of when those guys are fighting vs when Machida probably wants to come back.
This is the problem with naming someone the “#1 contender” in a division. Rashad is paid enough to sit out and wait out Shogun for a return. If Dana White had be vague about “who got what” after UFC 114 it would be easy to convince Evans that he isn’t quite there yet and get another fight out of him. Plus I truly feel that Evans does need another win to be the true #1 contender.
Interested to see who they’ll tag to carry some of these year end shows now that so many fighters are out due to injury or their lack of wanting a fight other than a title shot.
What?
Almost getting stopped in the 3rd round in back to back fights isn’t enough?
I agree about not being too quick with announcing title shots.. anyway, now Dana should make Rashad fight again, hugging himself to victory while almost getting knocked out isn’t all too impressive IMO. Before Shogun is back, there could be other guys with a more convincing argument than Rashad.
by Horselover Fat on Jul 19, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Rashad earned his shot leave all the other fanboy bs out the window, nobody is even close to being next in line at the moment.
The fact is Lil’ Nog was exposed and if it wasn’t for horrible judges would be out of contention after his last fight.
Machida also has lost his last 2 fights and Rampage is still promoting the A-Team movie.
Shit happens, we could spend all day on what match ups were possible for each event and it would be a useless exercise.
But what we are getting is Bader being given a shot at a top 10 LHW and Lil’ Nog being given another chance to show that he can deal with at good wrestler.
Rashad will get his shot at Shogun and Rampage will probably get another shot at Forrest all matchups are compelling and nothing was lost.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
Honestly I'd rather ...
…. see a motivated Rampage and he’d be motivated as hell for Forrest . As for Rashad I say make him defend his #1 contender status aginest someone in the top ten . Lil Nog could fit that role , Machida deserves a shot , Rich Franklin showed hes in it to win it and all these fights would be good , solid fights .
Heres my opinion of the best fights for each fighter :
Rampage v Forrest – Rampage will be motivated and focused to fight to avenge a loss
Rashad v Machida – Rashad needs this fight more than Machida , Why ? He needs to show that
he can beat Machida to avoid the whole ducking conversation
Lil Nog v Rich Franklin – Nog needs this fight to jump back into title contention and Franklin
needs it to keep his title hpoes alive
Bader v Bones Jones – Both could show what they got aginest another young up and comer
and it could develope into a nice little rivalry for many years to come
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Jul 19, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think the UFC wants to put Bader and Jones against each other until as late as they can get away with. They want to develop them seperately.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Agreed . They both have the...
… majorities of their careers ahead of them and a bad loss at this point may stunt their growth as fighters . Also Thiago Silva versus anyone I listed would be a good fight .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Jul 20, 2010 3:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Only idiots think Rashad is ducking Machida
and those same idiots haven’t given him a fair shake since day one, nothing he can do will appease them.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 19, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry but it sure ...
… seems that Rashad is ducking Machida and the rest of the division with this " I’ll wait for my shot " stuff . All I want him to do is fight all challengers to his #1 contender status , even if that happens to be the dude that stanky legged him . If you wanna be a champion act like the champ . Fight anyone and everyone no matter how bad the fight is bad for you . Machida did it with Shogun , Chuck did it with everyone as did Forrest & ( only one defense but hell he did it longer than anyone else here recently ) Rampage . Be a fighter not a waiter .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Jul 20, 2010 3:12 AM EDT up reply actions
That's not "ducking", that his right, he earned it.
You’re a dumbass to put your title fight in danger. Machida ISN’T a challenger to his number 1 status. Neither is Lil Nog. There is no challenger to his status. If Lil Nog had beat Forrest, he’d have an argument. He barely beat (most say lost) to a guy outside the top 50. C’mon son.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 20, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
And if your confident ...
… in your ability to beat anyone in the division you’d defend your #1 contender status . Obviously Rashad ain’t so confident in his ability to do that eh ? So we’re lettin the fighters rule the roost , name their fights and when they fight ? Last I checked fighters fight not make the fights .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Jul 21, 2010 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions
If they want to schedule a Machida fight son, there are five options I see
1. Thiago Silva – Assuming he wins at 107, preferably by stoppage, he’s a true striker that would try and come after Lyoto. Not the sexiest name, but the dude is still 14-2 with 11 KO. Not a headlining fight, but could be a solid #2.
2. Tito – Chortle all you like, they still fought to a draw in their last go. This works twofold, gives Tito a name to fight, gives Machida a probable W, and probably shuts Tito up.
3. Winner of Jones/Matyushenko I know the prospect of Vlad winning throws a wet blanket on this scenario, but he’d have enough juice to challenge Lyoto and doesn’t seem like the kind of guy to back down from anyone. If Jones wins, I think it’s time to ratchet it up for him. He will have cleaned out the upper-middle tier of the division with Hamill, Vera, and Vlad, time to give him a contender.
4. Hamill – Though I love Matt Hamill to death, I think he’d get it taken to him here. However, this provides a chance for Machida to get back on track, and including the Jones fight (I know, I know), Hamill has won his last four fights.
5. Forrest – Makes perfect sense, could easily headline a PPV, and jumps one of them right back into the title picture. Makes the most sense easily here.
So those are the five, and really only five, options I see. Everyone else is either booked up, a Blackhouse member, injured, or not near Lyoto’s level.
by BVandDietPepsi on Jul 19, 2010 10:39 PM EDT reply actions
1. Machida already finished him.
2. Machida won a decision. Tito drew w/ Rashad.
http://www.instrength.com
Goddammit
You’re right. I’m way off my game lately.
I’m gonna sit the next few plays out, champ.
by BVandDietPepsi on Jul 19, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
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