The Sad Spectacle of Ken Shamrock: An Aged Legend Dances for Nickels Down Under
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 18, 2010 12:20 PM EDT
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I remember Ken Shamrock in the glory days. Shredding Pat Smith's leg. Tapping the mat three times against Royce Gracie. Showing the integrity to admit to referee Joao Alberto Barreto that he had indeed quit. Learning, growing, and coming back for UFC V to control the seemingly unbeatable Gracie.
Ken Shamrock helped make MMA. He was the biggest star in the promotion's glory days. When things got dicey, he used his newly built tough guy reputation to make big money with the WWE. When he returned to MMA, he helped spearhead Pride's first attempted invasion of America, and then showed Zuffa how it was done by making them a mint. In a third act with the UFC, he and Tito Ortiz set PPV records and were rolling in dough.
Ken Shamrock should be settling into a life of comfortable retirement. He should be introduced to the crowd during every UFC event to raucous applause. He should be making media appearances as the sport's elder statesman. Instead, Ken Shamrock is 46 years old, broke, and has burned his bridges with both the UFC and Showtime/CBS. So we get what we got last night.
It was a sad moment for the man who once inspired such fear and awe. Shamrock, wearing every one of his 46 years on his weathered face, was thrown to the wolves against Pedro Rizzo for Impact FC in Australia. Rizzo, one of the most successful and dangerous leg kickers of all time, wailed away on Shamrock's brittle bones. Each shot made the audience wince in empathy-it didn't help that Ken looked like he wanted to cry with every blow.
Shamrock, who is a very proud man, tried to get out of the bout gracefully. In a moment of quiet desperation he dropped to a knee, practically begging referee "Big" John McCarthy to stop the fight. Rizzo looked to the referee as well. McCarthy, perhaps remembering Ken's vehement complaints about Herb Dean's "early" stoppage of the second Ortiz fight, forced Rizzo to inflict more punishment. It was a sad and pathetic moment, not just for Ken Shamrock, but for fans of mixed martial arts.
We've all seen athletes who didn't know it was time to hang it up. For every Bret Favre, who returns to form long after his salad days, there are ten Willie Mays, embarrassing themselves in unfamiliar jerseys and hanging on simply because they don't know what to do next. That's not the Ken Shamrock story. Ken Shamrock knows he shouldn't be fighting. Ken Shamrock doesn't want to be fighting. Ken Shamrock has to fight. He has no other options, and in a moment of candor after the fight, Shamrock let the worldwide audience know he was available for future beatings-at a cost.
"As long as the fans come and keep watching me, I'll keep getting beat up."
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What makes it even more sad
is that so many, in fact most, of the current fans of MMA know Shamrock only as the beat up old man that he now is. The first Shamrock fight they saw was when Rich Franklin put him away back in 2005. They don’t know anything about the Shamrock that helped bring this sport along.
It was a really sad moment to hear him say that last night. I don’t want to think of him this way. He has turned into a punchline for the new generation of fans. If he keeps doing this to himself then there is no amount of education that will help people understand about what he has done in the past. It will be overshadowed.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
One more point about last night.
It was just sad to me that McCarthy didn’t stop the fight after Shamrock dropped to a knee. There was no reason to let that fight continue.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
by Geno Mrosko on Jul 18, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
You reap what you sow, and Ken just reaped a career worth of bitching and complaining about referee stoppages. Big John made sure that there would be no grousing after this fight.
by Steve4192 on Jul 18, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Agreed
I was in my early twentys when UFC 1 took place and have always admired Ken. I know Ken has made some bad finacial decisions in the past but we have all made mistakes in our lives and he really doesn’t deserve the ridicule he recieves every time he fights. I love when he gets the “he deserves what he gets” or “you reap what you sew”. If you are a young adult or a late teen you haven’t lived life enough to make bad decisions. It sad to see one of the pioneers of the sport I love end his career in this manner.I still have great memories of sitting with my brothers and my pop watching “The worlds most dangerous man” kicking ass in the ocatagon.
Root for the home team jack ass
by KING FEDOR on Jul 19, 2010 6:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don’t think that just because most of the people posting aren’t in their 40’s like I am doesn’t mean that they can’t tell a guy who constantly shoots himself in the foot when it comes to business and life decisions. It’s not like Ken has just made a couple bad choices, he has been pretty consistant with making them for quite a while. He is a hall of fame MMA fighter and a pioneer of this sport and his accomplishments should be respected but he’s also a guy who consistantly makes a mess out of his life due to his own choices too. This is a guy who has lost 8 of his last 10 fights and has only won once since 2004(not to mention got busted for steroids after that one win), he is a long time past when he should of hung them up and he’s managed to burn bridges with a good chunk of the sport, not to mention the financial issues. Your fond memories for him from 17 years ago don’t change who the man is or what he has been doing since then.
by who me on Jul 19, 2010 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He certainly has made many bad choices but they were choices that mainly effected him. There seems to be an anger towards him from many in the MMA world that I can’t seem to grasp. Ken seems to not have looked for proper advice or got bad advice along the way but that’s no reason to hate upon him. I’m very sad for the guy. As far as continuing to fight I’m sure he feels he has no other options. Fighting is his trade.
Root for the home team jack ass
by KING FEDOR on Jul 19, 2010 1:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Sports aren’t a trade or a normal career they are an athletic competition. To say Ken has no other options is just not true, we all have options. Ken’s only 46 years old, there is a hell of a lot of life left out there for him to live and retiring from fighting doesn’t mean he is just retiring altogether. Hell he’s got 20 years till he gets to the age where the majority of us get to retire at. He can coach or train fighters, he can work on the business he does have left, heck he can go to college and get a degree and learn to do something completely different for a living if he wishes. Lets not act like fighting is the only thing he can do it’s just what he loves to do and he doesn’t want to give it up.
I don't disagree
He certainly could move on to another career you and I know that. Obviously he hasn’t accepted that. I have no problem with
that. I’ll admit I’m a bleeding heart for sports stars who kinda lose their way and I take issue with folks bad mouthing them because they aren’t all like Randy Couture.
Joe Gibbs along with two finacial advisers gives a free finacial course to Washington Redskins. He was saying that 80 percent of NFL players burn through their savings within 2 1/2 years of retirement. So it’s just not Ken Shamrock
Root for the home team jack ass
by KING FEDOR on Jul 19, 2010 5:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh I agree that lots of them burn through their money, I also agree that the hate for Ken is a bit much but this isn’t just about the money this is also about the issue of Ken buring so many bridges in the sport. That is the issue that really gets me, he not only ran thought the money but he also ran though all the good will he had in the sport over the years. Whether intentional or not Ken stomps on a lot of toes with the things he does. If Ken was just broke but a real nice guy then he would probably get more opportunities and more sympathy but lets face it he just seems to of burnt the bridges with the people and organizations that could help him out.
He definitley has left some scorched earth behind him. He screams lack of a proper upbringing.
Root for the home team jack ass
by KING FEDOR on Jul 19, 2010 8:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
here here!
Well put. Shamrock was a man amongst boys back in the day, and its really sad to see his career ending like this. For someone who had so much to do with making MMA relevant, it is really important that we maintain a dialogue about his past contributions, and his significance to MMA.
An Appropriate Song to Match the Picture: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqft8AablGg
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 18, 2010 12:30 PM EDT reply actions
That is a perfect song
You should make a retrospective video of Ken using that.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
Darren Aronofsky already did
Its called The Wrestler.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jul 18, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow
I didn’t know that was Ken in that movie. Doesn’t look anything like him.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
before opening the link i knew it was that song.
its perfect for Ken.
"Vikings fucked Vikings for generation after generation and their warrior bloodlines were passed on, and this motherfucker living in the woods in Minnesota got the best of the best."
Esther Lin always does such great work
The choice of lighting is very unorthodox, but so effective, and the facial expression is one of those fleeting, hard to capture moments when a person’s face almost seems as though it tells the story of their life.
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by in the fight, what you saw, in the ring." - Tito Ortiz
by CasualMMAFan on Jul 19, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Question for the uninformed...
Why is Ken broke? Did he have bad investments? Drug problem? I’m legitimately curious.
by BVandDietPepsi on Jul 18, 2010 12:32 PM EDT reply actions
He sued the UFC, lost and now has to pay their lawyers for their time.
Approx $700 000 in the hole.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
He was reported to be broke before that even. It doesn’t seem like Ken has ever been good with money or running a business.
He was a pioneer in Makin it Rain too apparently.
by SilverNBlackZach! on Jul 18, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yes for years now his money problems have been reported on. If you believe what Frank says Ken blew tons of his money in the late 90’s early 00’s buy doing what alot of famous athletes do when they are not use to having large amounts of cash you know living the fast life Clubs,Cars,girls,Booze,drugs,Jewerly,etc
in the late 90’s early 00’s just racking up tons in debt. It happens ll to much in sports the Athlete does not plan for the future at all and always thinks they make the same amount they are in the present time, Until the IRS is a knocking at the door
That's why you have the UFC supporting financial seminars for fighters
So that they don’t end up like Ken.
Apparently it’s also common to the formerly “poor” who suddenly have a lot of money and fame, they can’t restrain themselves.
Legal problems, running numerous gyms, and bad investments seem likely
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
It’s a problem that affects almost all pro athletes, I heard something like over half of ex-NBA players are broke 3 years after they’re out of the league. These guys just don’t know how to handle their money, it’s a shame.
A big part is they spend all their time working on their game and nothing on how to manage money. It’s not something they’ve learned, and unlike many, it’s not a trait they’ve picked up from the friends and family who usually don’t have money. It’s a common problem when the lower class (economically) comes into contact with money. IT’s amazing what an invisible hand our upbringing has on shaping our life.
And I can’t talk, because I blew through a ton of money ten years ago when I first started making great money. it took a complete failure on my part to reset and do it right the second time,
by John Nash on Jul 18, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well
Its a lot of money to handle. If I just started getting multi-million dollar checks in the male, it wouldn’t be shocking if I made some bad investments and ended up broke. I don’t know how to be rich, and most people don’t. The truth is you need to hire somebody to handle these things, which leads to a whole other set of problems. Enter Gary Coleman.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
"As long as the fans come and keep watching me, I'll keep getting beat up."
He seems to have excepted his fate at least, but it was sad to see the shell of what he once was getting his leg chopped off
no we don't
God help me, I have a problem. I'm a Shinya Aoki fan. I don't know what to do about it...
"what the f**k is the internet?"
Pain don't hurt...
by RolloTomasi on Jul 18, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ken Shamrock should have started a Ken Shamrock retirement fund about 15 years ago, then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
by ufc4 on Jul 18, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I'd kick in a few bills, although I completely agree with ufc4's comment below.
I just cant help feeling sorry for him. Somebody launch www.helpken.com
Life is hard....get a fucking helmet.
this is sad, but ultimately he’s to blame… he was getting paid damn well by the UFC, i believe he made six figures for the tito fights which is crazy considering how ‘done’ he was at that point in his career. feel bad for the guy still though as i will always respect what he’s done for the sport.
wouldn’t be surprised if he dies in the ring ala mickey rourke in ‘the wrestler’.
also wouldn’t be surprised if his next fight is vs. alistair overeem in dream.
I'm sure
He was paid pretty good by the WWF too. No reason to be broke. Still sad though.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
The "dying" thing is debatable.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jul 18, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
According to Ken's own account in his recent lawsuit against Zuffa...
he got paid $1m for the Ortiz fight.
I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.
I can only compare the fight to Ali/Holmes.
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
This is
one of the most sad and depressing stories I’ve ever read on BE :(…
I apologize for my never-ending assault on the English Language. I feel like Qui the promoter from Jade Empire...
i was just about to type this :(
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Jul 18, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Here is a picture of some kittens
Feel better
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
by RobertGBP on Jul 18, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
....and according to your theory
at the time of this post, they have gone to meet their maker
by Goat choker 1 on Jul 19, 2010 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
RIP cute kitties.
I'm better than you. Na na na boo boo, stick your head in doo doo.
by Earl Montclair on Jul 19, 2010 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
LMFAO
Daniel Worby is Mania's Resident Sissy Boy
by SouthCaliStunNa on Jul 18, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Are they The Most Dangerous Kittens in the World?
"Ten more seconds is all I ever ask. That's the good thing I learned about being KO'd twice. You don't see it coming -it's like death- you don't plan for it so don't wait for it. So many people are afraid of getting Ko'd that their hands stay home, but not me. I got to go out there and shoot the lights out and fall down" Jens Pulver
It’s not over yet
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
ITS OVAH ROCKY
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Jul 18, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
What he said was sad/disgusting in that he knows he's done but won't/can't quit
But as has been stated already, he is the one to blame. He’s never accepted that it’s his issues, instead, he skirts the blame to others. He made a ton of money over the course of his career (UFC/Pride/IFL/WWE/Sponsors) and didn’t save a penny. His quote last night still makes it seem like it’s our fault he’s still fighting, much like his “admission” of steroid use.
I don’t know what else he can do in life but he needs friends to tell him that fighting isn’t it.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
The sad part is there are probably still numereous ways...
to parlay his fame and experience into sustainable income…however he has either burnt the bridges needed to support them or is unwilling to go those routes.
I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.
Johhny Cash - Hurt Video is playing in my head.
"Players are gods, the stands are the pews, football is the new religion."
Just Don't Look, Just don't look...
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
by Sam Cupitt on Jul 18, 2010 12:46 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Flanders has it
Oh did I say Flanders? I meant Moe. Go kill Moe.
by Body Triangle on Jul 19, 2010 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
What upset me most
Is the fans cheering when he asked if they would watch him again. It just rammed home the point, that fans will always just throw their loose change on the ground to see an old legend get embarrassed.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Yeah, he actually said something like: “If you guys still want to see me I guess I’ll keep coming in here and getting beat up.” That almost made me cry.
Still, I thought he was going to roll over for a paycheck and instead he fought like he wanted to win.
by casey manrique on Jul 18, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, that made me miserable. Jens Pulver is going down this road too.
by MMABookworm on Jul 18, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh thanks! I’m fighting Jeremy Horn next week in Kennewick, WA.
by casey manrique on Jul 18, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
No he didn't.
If he wanted to win, he would have shot for a takedown rather than present a knee to get kicked to crap for the entire round.
Koscheck eats it.
Surely
… with his physique, he could go back to work for the WWE, no?
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
I was thinking that also, but the reality is that pro wrestling is probably harder on his body than mma is at this point.
That reality is a fact.
Just look at the death rates among pro-wrestlers.
I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.
I don’t even think they would take him back now.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
by Geno Mrosko on Jul 18, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably not with his steroid admission
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
by Gobroks on Jul 18, 2010 5:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I doubt the majority of the current WWE crowd would even know who Ken is.
Root for the home team jack ass
by KING FEDOR on Jul 19, 2010 6:53 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Maybe he could get a job working on an assembly line or something that doesn’t get him punched in the face. Maybe he could take a government retraining program and become a welder or plumber maybe.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
You gotta have the fighter mentality if you want to tackle changing out a water heater.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
by Ubernoober on Jul 18, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Does anyone else
Think of Peter Griffin when they look at Pedro’s belly?
Forever indebted to CroCop's left leg for getting me into MMA
by Well Read Idiot on Jul 18, 2010 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Its a really unflattering picture
right at the gut area. I tried to avoid it.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
by Geno Mrosko on Jul 18, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
The Wrestler
Basically describes Ken’s life. Very sad.
by Cocytus on Jul 18, 2010 1:01 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Quite possibly
But I don’t mean the materialistic things, I mean the man’s spirit, his state of life.
So does Jim Thorpe: All-American.
Build a sport, be its biggest star, get a big head, think of nobody but yourself, blow your cash and burn every bridge, end up wandering around in a feathered headdress at the carnival midway for a few dimes to pay your bar bill.
Shamrock will be a greeter at Caesars before long.
Koscheck eats it.
It's hard for me to feel sorry for Ken
He’s a legend and one of the pioneers of the sport. His spot in the history of MMA is unassailable.
However his current predicament is a Hell of his own making. He’s used up whatever goodwill he had with the fans and if he thinks that continually running himself out there and getting beat up gives him some kind of redemption then he is sadly mistaken.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
by Worldisart on Jul 18, 2010 1:01 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 2 recs
I think comparing the two brother’s really points out how sad Ken is. Frank is 9 years younger and didn’t make anywhere near the money Ken made in his career but he’s able to retire from fighting comfortably and has his new career already well in place. Ken is a half decade past the time when he should of retired(at least), has squandered the money he made from both the sport and sports entertainment (not to mention his gyms and training centers). Ken has also burned his bridges with pretty much everyone who could help him at this point too, including his brother Frank. It’s a very sad story but this isn’t the Jens Pulver story, Ken has done it all to himself over and over and over again.
I feel bad for his body, not really bad for him all that bad. Somebody had to tell him that being the worlds most dangerous paid man were going to come to an end back in his 30’s somewhere. It just sucks that he didnt save up any money from the multi-millions he made in the WWF and UFC, but thats his own fault and the people talking into his ears. Besides the UFC lawsuit, has he lost his ass on any business ventures?
There was a Lion’s Den here in Modesto that had a bunch of promotion and grand openings and it was in all the papers, and by the time I wanted to go check it out, it was already closed less than 3 months after it opened up. Are his other schools failing too, or are they doing ok?
by SilverNBlackZach! on Jul 18, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
The one here in Reno is still open, my friend just got a job working the front desk.
Kimbo wants to take your caterpiller and do bad things to it.
northern nevada represent!
I'm better than you. Na na na boo boo, stick your head in doo doo.
by Earl Montclair on Jul 18, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Why can’t we even get a fight night up here?
Kimbo wants to take your caterpiller and do bad things to it.
I thought I was the only one who wondered that……It seems like we should. The Reno Events Center would be a great venue.
I'm better than you. Na na na boo boo, stick your head in doo doo.
by Earl Montclair on Jul 18, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I love Shamrock,.
But man, this is just sad.
I started to know him from his WWE time then found out about him in the UFC. Just goes to show how harsh sports are if it’s the only thing you know to make a living.
If I wake up tomorrow and see that the world has ended, then that means God has finally granted my prayers.
GO Armageddon!!!
Damn it
I went from having an awesome day, to reading this article, to listening to The Wrestler. I swear a big got in my eye…
Ken retire already
This legend needs to retire and train younger up and comers rather than embarrass himself anymore.Ken Shamrock is a legend that’s turning into a side show.
I remember reading he had bad managment that took a lot of his money
I think it was while he was in the WWF. Any truth to that or did he just piss it all away?
Wouldn't be surprised, I think Coleman's manager did the same thing to him after he started in the UFC.
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
Sanctioning bodies
Have to be the ones to put an end to this. There is no excuse for any athletic commission to look at his record over the past few years, his pull-out of fights, the self-admitted unprescribed steroid usage, the one-sided losses and to say “Sure Ken, let’s give it another shot.”
They are complicit in his slow self-destruction, imo.
The only people that care are the fans.
Everybody else just wants to make money.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
on kenshamrock.com
there is a poll that asks “Who do you want Ken to fight next? Kimbo Slice or Frank Shamrock?”. That alone says the man has no faith in himself, either fight the Kimbo spectacle, or fight his brother who retired.
by Flesh Into Gear on Jul 18, 2010 2:45 PM EDT reply actions
I’ll give him $12 if he lets me kick him in the nuts.
by ufc4 on Jul 18, 2010 3:07 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Ken Shamrock has to take most of the responsibility for the state he’s in. He made more than most fighters, but for some reason he almost seemed hell-bent on ruining his own life. Maybe it was crooked managers like he said or maybe it can be traced back to whatever reasons he was placed with Bob Shamrock in the first place. But even with Ken being to blame for his own predicament, I have a soft spot for him. Ken Shamrock might be the only reason the UFC is still here, or at least the only reason Zuffa runs it and not Vince McMahon (shudder). Here is where he deserves some thanks:
- Before Ken Shamrock returned to fight the highest selling Zuffa era payperview was 75,000. His first fight back against Tito sold 150,000. During this pre TUF era they would break 75,000 six times. The two biggest sellers where headlined by Ken Shamrock (UFC 40 & 48). The other four where either headlined by the guy that beat Ken (Tito) or the guys that beat the guy that beat Ken (Chuck and Randy). Unless a fighter passed the litmus test of being tougher than Ken, he could not sell payperviews. This include Matt Hughes, the heavyweight champ Pedro Rizzo, and even Chuck and Randy before they beat Tito. So without Ken the UFC wouldn’t have gone from averaging 50,000 ppvs to 78,000 ppvs, and they wouldn’t have seen their gates go from $500,000 a show to $1 mil a show. That means they wouldn’t have the money to keep some of their stars away from Pride, or be able to show enough public interest to finagle a tv deal with Spike. It’s very possible they would have been forced to close shop or sell if they didn’t have that extra $1 mil per event coming in.
- Without Ken Shamrock fighting Rich Franklin on the Ultimate Fighter Finale, the millions who had tuned to see if he was fighting yet wouldn’t have caught the Bonnar vs Griffin match, and the huge impact that fight had on viewers might not have been as huge.
- Without Ken Shamrock coaching against Tito Ortiz on the Ultimate Fighter and fighting him twice afterwards would
- the ratings have done gangbusters, easily being the most viewed Ultimate Fighter up until 10.
- UFC 60 sell anything close to 600,000+ ppv, as it was hyped to hell on TUF.
- the UFC have an event (UFC 61) that sells 775,000 pvs before UFC 66.
- the FInal Chapter fight be the most watched mma fight in North America, until Kimbo fought James Thompson on CBS (it is still number two)
- would UFC 66 sell a million payperviews without the hyping Tito-Shamrock the Final Chapter did leading up to it.
So in gratitude for what he’s done in actually getting the UFC to where it is today, I have a simple proposal for Zuffa, one that they should feel no obligation to do it, but that would be nice gesture. A gesture that would keep a Hall of Famer and legend from tainting his legacy anymore and saving us from a potential scandal if he where to die or the embarrassment of having to watch him descend any lower as some sort of “geek” out of Nightmare Alley..
My proposal? Drop the lawsuit and pay him the $1 million dollars that he thought he was owed. You could justify it as having sympathy for how he was poorly managed and represented by his lawyers. I would ask that you put a stipulation in the payment that he has to permantly retire from fighting and that the money will go into a trust fund for someone else to manage.
And with that, we could all sleep soundly knowing the right thing was done.
Do you have the Shamrock numbers memorized by now?
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
Correction: UFC 75 beat Final Chapter's ratings.
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
You a dirty f@#king liar
At least according to the numbers
1. EliteXC on CBS (5/31/2008): Kimbo Slice vs. James Thompson: 7.281 million viewers (Aired from 11:27 PM to 11:40 PM)UFC 75 did better as an overall event, but for the record, Shamrock vs Tito is the second highest rated fight.
2. UFC: The Final Chapter on Spike TV (10/10/2006): Tito Ortiz vs. Ken Shamrock: 6.524 million viewers (Aired from 9:42 PM to 9:45 PM)
-
5. UFC 75 on Spike TV (9/8/2007): Quinton Jackson vs. Dan Henderson: 5.811 million viewers (Aired from 11:29 PM to 12:03 AM)
(Aired from 10:12 PM to 10:20 PM)
Eek, sorry.
My avatar has Bas Rutten and Terry Funk in it...therefore it's the manliest avatar on SB Nation.
See this is a nice theory in thought
But the reality of it is, if Shamrock hadn’t already burned his bridges with Zuffa, they would love to have him be a part of their organization at some level. The fact of the matter is that Shamrock has probably helped the development of MMA more than any other individual besides maybe Helio Gracie. Zuffa would love to have a guy like that on pay roll for a PR position. Or even a talent scout given his history as the Pancrase North American contact. But they won’t. Because, frankly, Shamrock has been an asshole. Its the same reason they won’t give him the million dollars. Shamrock is broke, alone, and friendless because he made himself that way. Its sad and tragic, but there is nobody in the world besides Shamrock (or maybe I guess Frank) who can fix it.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jul 18, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Man, after reading your post, I can’t wait for the Shamrock story. Seriously. Trouble youth Kenneth Kilpatrick is taken in by kind hearted Bob Shamrock, who helps him direct his rage into wrestling and then fighting. He rises to the top, bringing his younger brother with him, until hubris gets the better part of him and he destroys his career and ruins his relationship with everyone, including his now more successful brother. Gold. it’s like an updated version of Mark Robson Champion. let’s set up a meeting with Warner Bros. and pitch it.
Perhaps
Zuffa should just go into the non-profit business.
He sued them. They had to pay lawyers to deflect his baseless, frivolous lawsuit. I can’t feel sorry for Ken Shamrock’s financial situation.
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by Derek Suboticki on Jul 18, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
You do realize that he had this written into the contract:
G. Fighter has determined the first Bout will be his final, after which he will retire, but has agreed to one additional Bout with Zuffa in the event Fighter should elect not to retire, or to come out of retirement to fight again.
You do realize that Zuffa contracts can be cut at any time, for any reason following a loss……..correct?
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by Brian Mayes on Jul 18, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
My citing of the contract was a reply to
his baseless, frivolous lawsuitIt’s hard to make that claim when he specifically wrote language into the contract to allow himself to return, and was even planning on returning at UFC 75 against Bisping but it fell apart because he would have made substantially less on a non ppv since his return purse was tied to ppv sales.
It’s frivolous because the UFC cut him, which they were within their rights to do. For some reason Ken thought that his “retirement” language let him get around that. It didn’t.
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Ask Mark Hunt.
Zuffa is letting him fulfill his contract many years after he signed it.
They could, of course, ‘cut him’, but unlike Shamrock, Hunt might have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning a fight.
Koscheck eats it.
Which is it?
“Ken Shamrock has to take most of the responsibility for the state he’s in. He made more than most fighters, but for some reason he almost seemed hell-bent on ruining his own life.”
“You could justify it as having sympathy for how he was poorly managed and represented by his lawyers.”
The second quote is to give Zuffa a reason to do it. It isn’t saying that this is the case, Much as the US sends development aid under the pretense of assisting nations, when in reality it fits our security concerns, Same logic here.
The fuck kind of security concern is Ken Shamrock to Zuffa?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Jul 18, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Him dying fighting probably wouldn’t be a good thing.
by John Nash on Jul 18, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also, its probably a good thing for Zuffa if one of their most popular fighters ever was no longer a laughing stock.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jul 18, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’m not sure it matters so much as the core audience only knows the Ken Shamrock who has been continually beaten and embarrassed. They remember him from the WWF. They don’t know him from the beginning. Zuffa doesn’t give a shit about Ken Shamrock and I don’t think they need to worry about him.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
They do that kind of thing all the time.
Trigg wasn’t brought back because results dictated he should be. Nor was Coleman. Nor Baroni.
They regularly do favours for the old-timers to help them set up for retirement.
But not if you spit in their face and drag them to court.
Koscheck eats it.
Pedro Rizzo was never UFC heavyweight champion
For some odd reason, I have to remind people of this like every two weeks on here.
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I'm guessing
Because of how hard he got jobbed in his title shot against Couture. The look on Randy’s face is priceless.
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by Derek Suboticki on Jul 18, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
http://fightmetric.com/fights/Couture-RizzoI.html
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For some reason I was picturing Sally Struthers when reading that post.
“for just 65cents a day you can help feed a starving Ken Shamrock”
I'm note even saying he deserves the money
There are more worthy people out there for charity. But it might be worth it to pay him off so that the UFC can save the sport the embarrassment of having Ken Shamrock turn into a walking vegetable.
Ok so now it sounds like you want them to hire a hitman to take Ken out before he embarasses the sport. Look if they gave Ken a million dollars then Ken is still going to sign on to fight for the next guy who ask anyway. Hell he didn’t stay retired last time the UFC gave him a million dollars to do so so why do you think he would now? Hell even if an athletic commission refused to license him Ken would find someplace where they would let him fight. He says he’s fighting because he needs the money but it’s not like he stopped fighting when he had the money before. Ken will be fighting Tank Abbott in the back yard at a nursing home before it’s all said and done and it won’t matter how much money he’s got in his pocket because Ken just refuses to retire.
Because he has pissed off everybody in the industry?
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jul 18, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's not as well spoken?
Oh god that’s a scary thought.
by ufc4 on Jul 18, 2010 4:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm going to go with
49% hlebtasic’s answer and 51% ufc4’s answer.
Well look at how he fared on TUF, I doubt many people are interested in being coached by him
"Ten more seconds is all I ever ask. That's the good thing I learned about being KO'd twice. You don't see it coming -it's like death- you don't plan for it so don't wait for it. So many people are afraid of getting Ko'd that their hands stay home, but not me. I got to go out there and shoot the lights out and fall down" Jens Pulver
Because he's not trying to survive.
He’s trying to get back to the diamond-level lifestyle.
He could coach and do alright for himself (if Miletich can make a go of it…), but that’ll never be enough for someone with his ego. He needs millions, not thousands.
Koscheck eats it.
For all the talk of Big John being the best in the business, that was fucking pathetic. Shamrock wanted out. What a horrible call.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Just because a guy goes down, doesn’t mean you automatically stop a fight. Unfortantly, you have to treat Ken Shamrock the same as you would any other MMA fighter.
Pedro knew the deal though and only hit him 3 times. Those shot were nothing compared to what Ken had already taken. That was Big John giving Ken time to see if he was going to get back up or not. He didn’t and John stopped the fight. It was a fair call.
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Ken clearly quit and looked to John to stop the fight. Your description flies in the face of the video evidence directly above your post.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 18, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Are we watching the same video? I thought it was a great stoppage . Stopping it after the kick would’ve been outrageous. Just because Ken had no way of winning this or he’s old etc etc doesn’t mean John can just ignore the rules and risk his reputation. John could’ve let this thing even continute – think about the beating Lesnar was allowed to take against Carwin , but John clearly didn’t want Ken to get messed up that way .
Ken wasn’t ‘looking at John’ .
If Ken wanted out he could’ve tapped or submitted verbally.
You know who’s to blame for this crap ? Ken , the fans and the athletic commission who approved this fight.
That was BJM's bad
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Jul 18, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you kidding me?
Look at the video. What more do you need? Ken to shout out…please stop it!!!
Give me a break.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
I don’t disagree with either of you gentleman. Ken was clearly “done”. Still, you can’t just rush in and stop a fight the instant a guy goes down, unless he clearly verbally or physically waves the fight off. Because then you get into the whole “well, I just fell down, I was about to get right back up, you didn’t give me a chance to recover” BS.
If that was any other fighter in there, would you expect John to rush in the instant they went down? Of course not. You give them a chance to recover. John gave Ken a chance, which was a very wise thing to do considering Ken’s track record of protesting stoppages.
If Ken wanted out the instant he went down, he should have said something to John. What John did was fair. He gave Ken a chance to recover, like he would any other fighter. For God’s sake, look how much leeway was given to Brock Lesnar. Would you not expect at least a little of the same leeway given to such a pioneer as Ken Shamrock?
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yea – I’m with you.
I thought Big John played that very well. Ken went down to a knee, he didn’t crumple in the corner on his face. John waited to see if Ken would “intelligently defend himself” or not. Note that after the first punch, Ken appears to try to get back up. Pedro threw two more punches, one of which landed cleanly, and then John stopped the fight because Ken was making no effort to defend himself. I had it as an excellently timed stoppage.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
Big difference between the Brock fight and this fight.
As soon as Brock went down he was defending himself from an onslaught of punches. Watching the video of Ken, you can see that it takes a full second and he takes a step on the leg that got blasted. After he takes the step he willfully drops to his other knee and starts holding his leg. He is looking at the ground and then only looks up because the fight hasn’t been stopped. He defends himself against the coming punches because he doesn’t want to get hit in the face. It is intelligent defense because he is fully aware of everything that is happening around him. However, none of that matters because Ken clearly quit when he willfully went down to one knee.
He very clearly wanted out of the fight and Big John subjected him to unnecessary punches. The fighters safety is supposed to come first.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Big John gave him a chance to recover. If Ken was really, truely hurt and was in serious danger, he could have verbally submitted. Big John followed proper protocol. For crying out loud, even when a guy is dropped by a punch but still lucid, you don’t jump right in and stop the fight. Big John gave Ken a chance to recover. Ken took three shots that were nothing compared to what he ate on the feet for the previous three minutes, and Big John stopped it.
I don’t see what the controversy is. Was Ken obviously done? Sure. But giving him a few extra seconds to see if he could recover was proper. You would do that with any fighter. Ken might be old as hell and and shouldn’t be fighting, but you have to treat him the same as any other fighter.
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dude
Shamrock was looking for John to step in, did you see the look he gave Big John?? Even Rizzo thought John was going to stop it. It was the most pathetic (in a way that made me actually feel sorry for Shamrock) look given to a ref that I can remember.
He was clearly done
It takes more than a “look” to get a fight stopped in MMA, thank goodness.
If Ken wanted out, he should have said something.
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it was obvious
that he thought/or expected Big John to stop it….and by the look of Rizzo’s face, he did as well. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what else to tell you.
You know what we SHOULD be upset about?
The fact that Ken wants to fight again.
And that he’s going to take a lot more than three unanswered punches to the face.
Why aren’t people howling about athletic commisions and promoters allowing this to happen, instead of bitching about Big John giving Ken an extra 5 seconds to recover?
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John asked Ken if he wanted the fight stopped, no?
What more can he do?
If he stops it then Shamrock will whinge about how he didn’t say he wanted it stopped…
Forever indebted to CroCop's left leg for getting me into MMA
by Well Read Idiot on Jul 18, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
“Look at the video. What more do you need? Ken to shout out…please stop it!!!
Give me a break.”
Yeah, that’s exactly what Ken should have done. It’s called tapping. If you want out, don’t give the referee a sad face; tap or verbally submit.
That doesn’t seem like a difficult thing to remember after 40+ fights in the ring…
the memory is one of the first to go
when you hit that age
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by Cory Braiterman on Jul 18, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
And mileage...
how many KOs in a row did Shamrock have going against him walking into that cage?
I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.
none
he was coming off that win vs ross cliffton.
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by Cory Braiterman on Jul 19, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
i can't even make fun of it
since clifton died shortly thereafter. normally i’d be tossing around cheeseburger jokes like they were going out of style.
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by Cory Braiterman on Jul 19, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Ken has shown up and ridiculed too many referees over ‘early stoppages’ to expect the benefit of the doubt. Big Jon didn’t want to hear Ken complaining tomorrow about an early stoppage, so he made sure there was an emphatic finish.
Right. I speculated that was the reason in the article. That doesn’t make it right.
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 18, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
This was basically a repeat of the Sakuraba fight in terms of how it ended. The only difference was that Ken took a knee rather than turning his back and trying to duck out of the ropes. In Japan, that is tantamount to a submission, and Ken has fought over there long enough to know that. But that didn’t stop him trying to brand the ref as an incompetent boob.
I have no problem with Jon letting Ken take a few extra lumps in light of that.
That reasoning is horrible and dangerous. If Big John was actually thinking, “He might complain later so I’ll just let him take a few more punches before I stop it,” then he that is utter and complete bullshit and I sincerely hope that wasn’t the case here. I find it difficult to defend his position.
It doesn’t matter what Ken did in the past. It matters what the fight dictated and Shamrock was done and wanted out. Maybe he didn’t tap or verbally say that he was done but it was painfully clear.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Painfully clear is your personal opinion not a fact about the fight. Ken didn’t tap or verbally submit and he had plenty of time to do either. Ken Shmrock is about as veteran in MMA as you can get, he knows how to stop a fight, don’t blame John McCarthy because Ken didn’t tap at that point.
by who me on Jul 18, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Bah. You're missing the obvious.
Ken knew he couldn’t win. He also knew a verbal tap would ruin his ‘I never quit’ routine. So he tried to milk it so that BJM would stop the fight, then he could claim he still had some fight left in him and milk a rematch.
He’s done it over and over again. The reason Ken didn’t say “Tap!” is because he wanted BJM to take the heat for his weakass showing.
Koscheck eats it.
RESPECT!!
I have to give him the respect for helping get this sport to where is is today. Ken is and always will be a champion of the sport. Thanks for all the great fights Ken. Its time to HANG IT UP!!
Ken Shamrock
Someone needs to stop this guy for he gets hurt in the ring/cage.Ken Shamrock is hurting his MMA Legacy by continueing to fight.Each lost makes Ken look worse and worse.
by TERRENCEFROMSOUTHEAST on Jul 18, 2010 7:43 PM EDT reply actions
One of the greatest all around baseball players ever,with 660 career home runs.
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I feel bad for Ken as a person, but as a fighter he pisses me off.
He knows he is beyond his prime yet still risks his health doing so. If Ken Shamrock died in the ring by trying to make $450 to pay off his latest debt when he is older and even less capable, the backlash would be enormous.
He has to hang them up not only for the legacy he has created for himself but for the legacy he created for the sport, no good can come from Ken getting hurt any more.
thats a great point – every one always worries that eather Sakuraba or Goodridge will become the first BIG name fighting death or serious life altering injury but it looks more and more like the odds of something bad happening to Ken in the cage could come true at any time, Holy Shit did he look old and worn out last night going into that fight. He really is a ticking time bomb at this point and I just see the odds going up each time that something really bad will happen each time he fights. Ireally hope no the athletic commisions in North America deny him a fighting license in the future.
Did he sell his shares to the lions den?
I heard that Ken & his wife had sold his(their) shares in the lions den? Does anyone know more on this?
I know the still owns the one in Reno.
Kimbo wants to take your caterpiller and do bad things to it.
Just because Zuffa got a judgement against Ken Shamrock doesn’t mean anyone will ever actually pay them.
I see them...
holding it over Ken to keep him in line for the rest of time. He opens his mouth and disparages Zuffa in public, hello judgment enforcement.
I like Fedor, it’s just his fans that are intolerable...and his management.
a bunch of non-fighters talking ish about a guy who’s making money the best way he knows how. this is the dark side of the sport, goes back to boxing and other combat sports around the world.
if you don’t like, don’t watch him fight. you don’t have to completely trash the guy. pedro was throwing bombs and heavy leg kicks that would beat a lot of young guys too. period.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Jul 18, 2010 9:39 PM EDT reply actions
A man telling all of us non-fighters to shove ourselves?
You don’t like the post or the comments don’t post.
At least have useful thoughts to contribute.
I apologize for my never-ending assault on the English Language. I feel like Qui the promoter from Jade Empire...
You're an am fighter....
How is an Am fighter any different from a non fighter? Until you go pro and have more than 2 fights, don’t hate on people expressing their opinions.
Kind of stupid
to assume the posters are predominantly non fighters. Some of the comments seem like piling.
I have to agree with a lot of the comments here. He pissed through more money than I’ll ever see. Now as one of my favorite fighters he smears his own good name. I loved it when he called out tito for dishonoring the lions den t-shirt but hated it when he got beat. His life story is inspiring until this point. Damn shame. I bought his book, “Beyond the Lions Den” and have used some of the holds to restrain prisoners when they flip out. I’ll always owe the man for actually enhancing my personal safety everyday through his vids and that book. Yeah I’ve spent a lot of sweat in gyms and dojos but his style was unorthodox and in a prison setting it’s STILL real unorthodox.
I don’t feel a bit sorry for Ken Shamrock. All of his problems are of his own doing. I would also point out that if you told Ken Shamrock you felt sorry for him he would punch you in the ear. And if he read this thread (assuming) he would hunt you all down and try to beat you down.
Let’s save our pity for people who deserve it. But don’t start a thread about it because if they read it their feelings will be hurt.
Perhaps my best years are gone. When there was a chance of happiness. But I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now. No, I wouldn't want them back.
I feel sorrier that Shane Carwin..
..only made $40k for one of the biggest fights of the year.
And that Chris Lytle didn’t earn that sub of the night cash.
Both those guys warrant more consideration in their prime than Ken Shamrock does in his dark days.
Koscheck eats it.
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