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Around SBN: Dana White Announces Koscheck vs. Hendricks for UFC on FOX

What's Next for Shane Carwin After the Brock Lesnar Loss at UFC 116?

Photo by Scott Peterson via MMA Weekly

Carwin talks to MMA Weekly about the Lesnar fight:

What happened to Carwin, as he found out after the fight, was a bout of lactic acidosis. That is when lactic acid builds up in the blood stream faster than it can be removed, and it's produced when oxygen levels in the body are reduced. Knowing that something was wrong when the first round ended, Carwin says it was when he was leaving after the fight that things actually got scary.

"The hard part was actually walking back to the locker room," he said. "I just felt like I was going to collapse. By the time I got back there they put me on my back, my blood pressure was out of control, my heart rate was extremely out of control, and it never came back down, and I basically started hyperventilating almost right there."

Carwin made the trip to the local hospital, where he was checked out and released. Now that the fight is over and before he plans on stepping back in the Octagon again, Carwin says he will be tested thoroughly by his doctors to prevent this from happening again. Changes in diet and training should help fix the issue.

Carwin's pretty emphatic in the interview that he doesn't blame anyone, especially Ref Josh Rosenthal, for his loss to Lesnar. 

Carwin's taken quite a bit of heat online for his comments after the fight and I think it's unfortunate (and yes, we've been extra hard on him here at BE) because he's just attempting to explain his experience as a fighter. As a fan I'd much rather have fighters who are willing to honestly discuss what happened to them in the Octagon in detail than an endless series of empty jock talk that gives no insight. Carwin's an unusually open fighter with fans and the press. Unfortunately he's also pretty sensitive to criticism. I hope that he doesn't internalize the B.S. that foolish yappers like me post on the blogs.

But more interesting than what has already transpired is what's next for Carwin. The obvious choice would be a bout against the loser of UFC 117's Roy Nelson vs Junior Dos Santos fight. Either would be a great opponent for Carwin.

Obviously, Carwin remains a threat to KO anything smaller than a bull elephant that steps into the cage with him. But either Nelson, a wily vet with a well rounded skill set and a deep gas tank, or Dos Santos, a very quick and technically precise boxer with KO power, present a very serious set of challenges to Shane. 

After everyone saw the Lesnar fight, I guarantee you Carwin's future opponents will be reluctant to engage him in the first round. Everyone he fights will be looking to drag him into deeper waters to see if he'll fade again in the later rounds. He'll have to walk a fine line between conserving his energy better and not becoming overly cautious and losing his killer instinct.

The other option for Carwin is a tune up fight. Unfortunately the heavyweight division remains fairly thin and there really isn't a robust crop of gatekeepers there. There is no heavyweight Jorge Rivera or Chris Lytle. The two established gatekeepers in the UFC HW class are Cheick Kongo and Gabriel Gonzaga. Carwin's already beaten Gonzaga and Kongo is expected to fight Travis Browne at UFC 120. Personally, I'd rather see Carwin vs Kongo than Kongo vs Browne or Carwin vs Nelson/Dos Santos.

Failing that, someone like Mike Russow could be a fine tune up fight for Carwin. Despite by oft-stated preference that promoters book the best fight possible, in the thin heavyweight division I think it's best to be careful with legitimate contenders, especially one as formidable as Carwin who's already shown he presents a huge threat to champion Brock Lesnar.

After Carwin's fearsome performance against Lesnar, everyone on Earth knows that he is a very very real threat to win the rematch. That means he needs to be tested and given a tune up fight or two and then one contender's match before getting another title shot. He's also at an age, 35, where his abilities could fade very quickly at any time. Therefore, there's no time to waste if we're going to get Lesnar vs Carwin 2.

Personally, I'll be rooting for Carwin to solve his conditioning problems and get back to the top ASAP.

I've watched UFC 116 several times since it took place and the title fight only gets more dramatic and compelling on each viewing. Carwin vs Lesnar reminds me of a smaller scale version of Foreman vs Ali -- the famed Rumble in the Jungle. I really do think Lesnar was rope-a-doping to some extent. I'm still not seeing Carwin landing a really clean shot before Lesnar fell and he only landed a couple of clean shots on the ground. 

But as much as we praise the Lesnars and Alis, we should also treasure athletes like Shane Carwin and the great George Foreman. An offensive machine like that is an opponent that every other contender dreads stepping into the cage with and a rare treat for fans. There might be other fighters with a better chance to beat Brock Lesnar, but there are none on the horizon who can physically intimidate him and batter him around the way Carwin did before he faded.

Here's hoping we get a second bite at the magic apple that is Lesnar vs Carwin.

Ufc_116_button_medium
 

Comment 228 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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True that. haha

I am just not sure why every Fedor fanboy is “pulling” for this guy to knock brock out or Brock to lose. YouTube is full of this nonsense too. Now to Nate:

I’ll be rooting for Carwin to solve his conditioning problems and get back to the top ASAP.

Seriously. Cain would have beat Carwin but Dana had to put Cain aside and ask Carwin to fight Lesnar (turned out to be Mir then Lesnar). Carwin was never at top. Never going to be at top. His ground game will be exposed by a top BJJ guy. JDS will knock him out (Gonzaga tagged him). The future of heavyweight is Cain or JDS no matter how many times Carwin comes close to beating Brock. haha

by SheepleBuster on Jul 14, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

ah my friend

for about 4 minutes there Shane Carwin was the toughest man alive.

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by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Three minutes. By the fourth he had slowed and Lesnar started to prepare his escape.

by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 14, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

still

let’s give the man his due.

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by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

and a oxygen mask

"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar

by MMA_PITBULL on Jul 14, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

He's better than Petruzelli

He gassed after 2 minutes. A positively McFedrian performance!

Perhaps my best years are gone. When there was a chance of happiness. But I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now. No, I wouldn't want them back.

by jebushchrist on Jul 14, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Sokoudjou’s probably a top-10 LHW for the first round! Sadly, he has to come back out for the 2nd.

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

So cynical.

And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.

by James Brady on Jul 14, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

having watched the fight again

I noticed an obvious moment where he was on top and brock had his arm exposed for the most obvious armbar. It was so obvious. My guess is the guy isn’t well versed in mma cause it was just sticking out and ripe for the picking. The guy gassed because of lack of experience. He made a valiant effort but for all the talk about him being the best and brock being the best, I just don’t see that at all. The guys are super big and super strong but these guys could never cut down to 245 which should be the hw limit. They are super heavyweight superfreaks and not to say fedor would’ve gotten brock in that position BUT IF HE DID you better believe he would’ve taken that arm, thrown his legs around it and yanked it. Mma 101. Carwin is a good dude, but I don’t think these mammoths are that good of mma fighters in the first place. Sorry but they are freak shows.

by PipRocks on Jul 14, 2010 11:53 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

freak shows is a bit much

yeah their brawn outweighs their skill, but strength is a valid quality too. please tone down the name calling.

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by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

FTR, are you also piprocks666 on fanhouse/mmafighting.com?

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

gotta go boys, the beach is calling

i’ll be back, i know a lot of people wanna take shots at me.

by PipRocks on Jul 14, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha

Wasn’t sure. Your tone and tenor seem considerably different here, maybe due to the ban hammer of damocles?

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

"they are freak shows"

is a bit ad hominem for BE

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

name calling??

you mean in general or in regards to that post?? i think i made a pretty valid point. didn’t do any name calling there at all.

if you were referring to the superfreak comment, when these guys come to a fight weighing in at 285-290 pounds fighting in a division where the best in the world comes in weighing under 230, that warrants a label of superfreak without any ill-will. no offense to them, that was entertaining but these guys are not the best hw’s. they’re just ridiculously oversized.

by PipRocks on Jul 14, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's fine

the only thing i objected to was the last sentence. they are not freakshows, they’re fighters.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

This whole line of thinking cracks me up: Albert Haynesworth is a freak athlete for a guy who is pushing 360 pounds, he’d probably suck if he was normal sized so therefore he’s not good!

Size/strength/athleticism count.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jul 14, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

For all of his BJJ in the gym

Carwin seems to be very one-track in the octagon…

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

he started fairly late into the sport

it’s a rare fighter that can integrate new disciplines into his game. Carwin’s already added punching (i won’t call what he does boxing) into his game. it’s a lot to expect him to adapt like a Jon Jones or Ben Askren who started mma in their early 20’s.

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by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Totally agree

If he can just add some serious MMA-specific cardio/endurance training (and not expose his chin so much), he has to tools to be champion.

Keep the BJJ training, but mainly defensively…

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or maybe...

Shooting for an armbar is probably a bad idea, because in modern MMA they’re a very low percentage submission, and if they fail you end up on your back losing your advantageous position to your opponent?

I can’t think of the last time I saw a standard armbar work in a UFC-level MMA fight, and even when I do they’re rare. It’s easy to perform an armbar from your couch, not so easy in the ring.

by Jason H. on Jul 14, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Generally speaking, at the highest levels of MMA, submissions generally are only effective when the opponent is either rocked or gassed first.

There are exceptions of course, but as the new wave of MMA wrestlers begins to take the top spots over the next 1-2 years, submissions from the bottom will become even more of a relic of the past than they already are.

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh. I am sure I have been the best in something for one or two minutes too

haha. Not trying to diminish Carwin. But he is one of those guys that is too big. He does not move like a light-weight like Dana says. Cain or JDS would have exposed both of these guys. Having said that, I rather have Carwin’s KO than Lesnar’s GNP or neck crank.

All I am saying is this. Lesnar is 5-1. He is not like this god that people portray him to be. He’ll improve. If he had 10 more years in this sport, he’d be super. But he has 3 or 4 at the top. Besides, Lesnar having a terrible stand up does not make a person the toughest man alive.

by SheepleBuster on Jul 14, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

At the end of the day

Having terrible stand-up matters not, unless you are facing someone who can force you to keep it on the feet (such as GSP-Fitch was, or GSP-Shields will be).

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

its mma

 the great thing bout mma is u dont have to have a great stand up to be the best man or baddest man alive….as long as he is taking guys out with wrestling and g n p…who can say otherwise?

by prodigymma on Jul 14, 2010 11:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

all i am saying is, being great in something for 2 minutes does not count

Celtics were NBA champs for 3 games against Lakers. Duffee was the winner for 2.5 rounds against Russow. Just does not mean anything. Heck. Arlovski looked like super against Fedor for like 20 seconds. haha

by SheepleBuster on Jul 14, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wrong

Elite MMA wrestler beats elite BJJ guy who lacks wrestling 8/10 or better

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Carwin is not an elite wrestler. Get real

Cain is. Conrad, Mo,… Those guys are what you call elite. Carwin is a very good wrestler. He is not an “elite” wrestler by any means.

by SheepleBuster on Jul 14, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Elite enough to stuff Lesnar takedowns and punch him in the face.

Shane seemed to be more focused on Football/ becoming an engineer in college or he probably would have wound up at Iowa and wrestled. Maybe??

by Gi_choke on Jul 14, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's if you consider Brock an "elite"

I mean how do you define an “elite” Any NCAA champ is an elite wrestler? I have a higher standard. Brock is a very very good wrestler. But he is someone limited too. He is not that dynamic wrestler nor is Shane. Watch his college days.

by SheepleBuster on Jul 14, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

What I said was "elite MMA wrestler"

That includes takedowns ability, TDD, effective GnP, submission defense and ability to throw submissions.

Having said that, we have not seen that from Shane yet in the octagon (and most of us know that great in the gym doesn’t always translate to great under fire… cough…Jorge Gurgel…Matt Serra…cough) so he is TBD if elite or near-elite.

I would only include a few as truly elite MMA wrestlers (GSP, Kos, Cain, Lesnar for example), and few more as near-elite (Jon Jones, Maynard, Bader, Phil Davis, Fitch, Lawal for example).

Then those who are elite or near-elite in some areas, but have glaring holes in their game in other areas (Rashad – top control, Sonnen – sub defense+GnP) followed by many, many others who, while good or great wrestlers, are not at all great MMA wrestlers (Hamill, Munoz, Rosholt, Rumble).

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Left off

Top control / positional control from the actual list of traits an MMA wrestler needs.

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

ummmmm no not really

there are only a few Elite Bjj guys in mma. bjj usally takes it. nog’s vs henderson 2-1 , Nog vs couture, Maia vs Sonnen, coleman vs. Nog,

counter point ???

by Gi_choke on Jul 14, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

oops you said lacks wrestling

my Bad. they all can wrestle pretty good.

by Gi_choke on Jul 14, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's cherry picking.

I could just as easily say an elite MMA BJJ grappler beats an elite Wrestler who lacks BJJ 9/10 times.

I don’t understand all the Wrestling > BJJ comments. Any single discipline is susceptible these days. But if you aren’t going to be well rounded, what discipline is best? I’d argue there are far more elite (in the very broad sense of like, top 30 in whatever weight class) BJJ single dimension guys in MMA than any other single discipline.

Damien Maia, Thales Leites, Aoki (counting Judo as the same for this discussion), and that’s just off the top of my head. (Not that these guys solely use BJJ, but none of them are very well rounded and BJJ is their biggest weapon by far.)

Obviously, well-rounded wrestlers can beat them. But well-rounded fighters are always preferable – other things being equal. Wrestling may be a great base. But it’s just a base, and w/o adding skills in at least one other dimension – submission, striking, or submission defense – wrestling will not take you far at the elite level.

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Add Werdum in too

seeing as he just beat the sport’s most legendary fighter – despite being a 1 dimensional BJJ player!

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thus my use of "elite MMA wreslters"

In lieu of the (admitedly tiresome) phrase formerly known as ‘elite functional (MMA-centric) wrestlers’ which by either name I define as:

A skillset that includes elite takedown ability and TDD, effective GnP, elite top control + positional control, very good submission defense and a good ability to throw submissions.

Very few fighters have this skillset, although there are many with parts of it + glaring holes in their game.

I would only include a few as truly elite MMA wrestlers (GSP, Kos, Cain, Lesnar for example), and few more as near-elite (Jon Jones, Maynard, Bader, Phil Davis, Fitch, Lawal for example).

Then those who are elite or near-elite in some areas, but have glaring holes in their game in other areas (Rashad – top control, Sonnen – sub defense+GnP), followed by many, many others who, while good or great wrestlers, are not at all great MMA wrestlers (Hamill, Munoz, Rosholt, Rumble).

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

At that point though, these guys aren’t just wrestlers, so the comparison is apples to oranges. Plenty of dudes with a BJJ base add in other styles and become simply elite MMA fighters.

I understand your point, Wrestling + submission defense/offense and GnP is a powerful combination (the wrestle grappler – ala Hughes back in the day, or Jack Shields now).

But done right, so is BJJ + other skills, or for that matter, striking plus other skills. Hell, GSP never did any amateur wrestling, and added both wrestling and BJJ to his game after he was already fighting in MMA.

Moreover, if it is at a high enough level, BJJ is the only single-discipline style that can still be fairly effective in MMA.

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

First of all, I will agree that BJJ (and its off-shoots) is really the most effective single-discipline style that can work alone in MMA.

As for the other, I consider MMA wrestling an entirely different animal than wrestling in the more general sense (whether folkstyle, freestyle, greco, catch or any varients thereof). It is a specific set of skills taken, jeet kune do like, from multiple disciplines but trained together.

By definition it does not require an amateur wrestling background as the single best practitioner in the world, GSP, has no amateur wrestling background to speak of.

It is of course possible to come from one of several bases (JJ, BJJ, Sambo, various wrestling styles or nothing at all) and then train to add the elements. This is how the best of the next generation of MMA fighters will come up – training MMA, not a specific discipline.

The Jackson camp does this for example, and Militech had his version of a system, as have many others. Not all include the elements I am speaking of, but all were an amalgamation of various styles, generally starting with the founders base as the base for the system.

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

gonzoga got Koed and so did Mir , Nog's chin is so so these days (makes me a sad Panda) and Werdum is in Strikeforce

Where exactly are we gonna get this bjj guy from? Nelson is the only legit bjj guy I know of at HW that shane would have to worry about ,but i dont think Nelson could take Shane down. but we will see.
and also if anyone’s ground game is likely to be exposed by big country its Cigano’s. Imho

by Gi_choke on Jul 14, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Completely agree

Even if he wins, JDS’ cards will now be on the table as far as his ground game.

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

The blueprint is out there. Get Carwin to second round and go from there :)

Carwin has the KO power. I give him that. I am just saying, a Cain with better cardio and good chin, and JDS with much better boxing can all challenge Carwin. I don’t care how many hours Carwin goes on a treadmill. Those muscles will him up after the first or 2nd round. I mean even Brock was tired after 2 rounds with Couture.

by SheepleBuster on Jul 14, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

of course

everyone he faces should NOT get knocked out in the first. WHY DIDNT THEY THINK OF THAT? you sir are a visionary.

by Gi_choke on Jul 14, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's just a silly point you are making

There is a difference between a guy who goes to knock Carwin out and one that goes to tire his butt out. Strategies are much different. Do I believe too many people can do it? No. But there are ways to do it. Carwin is not a boxing god. Let’s not forget that. he hits you hard but he got hit first by Gonzaga. If Gonzi wasn’t that aggressive or hesitant on the ground, he’d have that fight.

There are ways to avoid Carwin’s power and more people will. Especially those with good wrestling may be able to wear him out. Guys like Cain or even Big Roy

by SheepleBuster on Jul 14, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

So...

Just tire him out against the cage, like Mir!

by Jason H. on Jul 14, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know about a blueprint. The guy gassed in the highest profile fight in his career. He thought he had the win within in his reach and after 4 mins didn’t have the stamina to do much else. He’s still 12-1 with heavy hand and in a thin HW division that makes him tough to game plan for.

Don’t know how much a 6’3 285 pound man who is 35 years old can really improve his cardio that much.

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by ultmma on Jul 14, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah def.

I remember Rogan saying after he lost that he wouldnt be surprised to see Shane try to shed some weight off so he can get his stamina and cardio up. Having his size for the Brock fight was good… but almost everyone else in the division he needs to be lighter.

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by DJ Pullout on Jul 14, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Russo → loser of JDS\Roy – > loser of Cain\Lesnar → Title shot

I get more rec's then a Toyota!

by DayGeaux on Jul 14, 2010 9:25 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't mind that progression, but

if he dominates Russo and the JDS/Roy loser, and Cain and the JDS-Roy winner struggle to be competitive with Brock, I would guess he’d be back in a title fight after two wins.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Monte Fisto on Jul 14, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't argue that

Depends on when Dana sees the most $$$$ to be made

I get more rec's then a Toyota!

by DayGeaux on Jul 14, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

If Carwin wins 2 fights (hell, if he wins one impressively) and Lesnar still has the belt (probably even if he doesn’t) the Lesnar Carwin rematch will do HUGE $.

The fight sells itself doesn’t? He came so close, he gassed, will he be able to shut Brock Lesnar up the 2nd time?

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think he’d get back in after one fight, just because Lesnar’s dance card is filled for the next two fights. But yeah after two Carwin wins, I don’t see how he misses another shot.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Monte Fisto on Jul 14, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Only way I could see him in after one fight

Is if Cain somehow beats Lesnar, and the winner of Cain vs. JDS/Nelson enjoys a quick, damage-free victory.

Otherwise I think he gets 2 fights in, unless he chooses to wait (a la Cain).

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

The other thing we're all forgetting is the inevitiabiltiy of injuries

It’s great that the champ and all the serious contenders are healthy right now, but we know from experience that — especially at HW — that’s a tough streak to keep going. If even one guy in this equation gets hurt, everything will get rearranged.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Monte Fisto on Jul 14, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's a great point

And one often overlooked in situations like this.

If someone offered a parlay of sorts that all 5 guys (Lesnar, Carwin, Cain, JDS, Nelson) stayed injury-free for their next 2 fights, I’d drop money on it even at -200…

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I could definitely see that happening.

But if Carwin took a bit of a break, and Lesnar won 2 quick (not saying that will happen, but it might) then they would probably match up again.

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have no clue who wins – just cause I think Lesnar will keep improving dramatically, and b/c Carwin could improve as well.

The one winner for sure is the UFC box-office.

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, if Lesnar beats Cain and JDS / Nelson winner

Carwin will probably be back in there after two wins.

The only things that could possibly taint that would be
1) Carwin losing
2) Lesnar losing

If Lesnar loses the whole thing goes a completely different direction.

by truck on Jul 14, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Russo is terrible...

and it says something about the depth of the HW division that he’d fit in any context into a heavyweight title eliminator situation.

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by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 14, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

hater!

the man has a skull of concrete and some KO power.

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by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

On second thought

That would be a great tune-up for Carwin to test himself against lactic acidosis…

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

He took a solid beating showed a iron chin and had power in his hands. Is the future HW champion of the world? Probably not but fighters should be rewarded and Russo defiantly deserves another relevant fight considering the performance he had. Carwin vs Russo Battle of the Part timers haha

"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar

by MMA_PITBULL on Jul 14, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't get the "performance" thing...nor do I get the "power" thing

He KO’ed a gassed fighter after taking a beating. He did not look impressive at all except that he can absorb punishment.

He’s KO’ed Pat Harmon (a TERRIBLE regional fighter in my area and a guy I’ve seen schooled in gyms and fights by absolute scrubs. He’s also like 5’6" 260 pounds) and Brandon Quigley (who I know nothing about). Those two and Duffee are the extent of his strike stoppages. This isn’t a guy packing huge KO power.

His fight with duffee didn’t make anyone look good in my eyes, it made them both look pretty awful.

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by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 14, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

He did not look impressive at all except that he can absorb punishment.

Being able to absorb punishment is exactly the quality you want in a fighter your going to put against Carwin. Nobody other then Brock has been able to take his punch and continue.

"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar

by MMA_PITBULL on Jul 14, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Um

Todd Duffee power vs Shane Carwin power isnt even in the same league. If Carwin landed half the shots Duffee did on Russo, it would’ve been night night.

RIP Phil Harris. I'll miss you man

by II SMASH II on Jul 14, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

With his ability to take punishment

It would be a good chance for Carwin to get some full-speed, full-power work in to see where his conditioning is at regarding the lactic acidosis.

Not a competitive fight by any stretch…

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Right...

It’s a really, really horrible fight actually UNLESS our exclusive goal is “test Carwin’s cardio” but beating a Russow would not prove anything to me and it wouldn’t advance anyone’s position other than low tier fighters.

And as stated above Duffee’s power is not exactly Carwin’s power. Duffee has good power, Carwin has (probably) the most power in the sport.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com

by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 14, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

a tune up fight

isn’t supposed to prove anything to anyone except the fighter himself.
I’m continually flabbergasted by how little respect the concept of a tune up fight gets in MMA.
PRIDE knew all too well how important it is to keep your race horses feeling confident. The UFC doesn’t seem to get that.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Tune up is fine...

but my thing was more aimed at placing him in the title contender hierarchy.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com

by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 14, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ahh...

I doubt (hope) that no one considers him as having any influence on the title picture.

We could also bring Cabbage back as a human heavy bag for Carwin…

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like (almost always) that UFC doesn’t give tune-up fights.

One of the reasons I always thought they were a better org than Pride (not counting which side had the better fighters, just which but on the better fights with the fighters they did have).

But you are right, sometimes fighters need a tune-up fight to improve, or to test the waters when moving up. For instance, I would love to see GSP up at 185, but I’d like him to have a tune-up fight there before he took on Anderson.

It’s a very delicate balance though.

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its not set it stone it was a suggestion. If the UFC wanted to get Carwin back into the cage quickly then it would make sense. The other fighters are tied up and Carwin took little damage in the Lesnar fight in total. He could still go on to face the loser of JDS/Nelson.

"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar

by MMA_PITBULL on Jul 14, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

i think russow has a broken arm though

so he might not be available.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

ahhh didn’t know that bit of information.

"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar

by MMA_PITBULL on Jul 14, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'll always be a Carwin fan

In my opinion he’s got the best chance of beating Lesnar still. The dude can knock out a fuckin Mule, so what Lesnar made it through was impressive.

RIP Phil Harris. I'll miss you man

by II SMASH II on Jul 14, 2010 9:32 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Yeah it will always be an interesting rematch to do.

I'm a lover not a fighter

by spectaa on Jul 14, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Who doesnt like two giants in a fight?

Get some wins Shane, and let’s do round 2.

RIP Phil Harris. I'll miss you man

by II SMASH II on Jul 14, 2010 9:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Shane doesn't do round 2

Infinite round ones would treat him a lot better.

by truck on Jul 14, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Ha man damn truck

Don’t kill my dreams

RIP Phil Harris. I'll miss you man

by II SMASH II on Jul 14, 2010 9:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

It will be interesting to see how they book him.

We already know:

If Lesnar beats Cain, he will fight the JDS / Nelson winner.

I think the Carwin rematch would likely come right after that. That means Carwin only needs one or two keep busy fights depending on the time line. Russow, then the JDS / Nelson loser makes sense to me

If Cain beats Lesnar, things get really interesting.

Carwin / Lesnar 2 could be used as an eventual number one contenders match. Would they do that though? Lesnar / Mir 3 becomes an immediate option again. Or would they try to build them ll back up for title shots individually? It is really hard to say.

I appreciate the level of accountability you took in the opening paragraph.

by truck on Jul 14, 2010 9:41 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm nothing if not accountable.

opinionated? yes
assholish? often
incorrect? constantly
but definitely accountable.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was surprised you got so harsh to begin with...

Especially knowing Carwin is a reader and ranked you in his top 10.

by truck on Jul 14, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

If fighters are sensitive and get butt hurt easily then i have a simple solution stay of the damn computer. You could use that time for i dunno training full time.

"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar

by MMA_PITBULL on Jul 14, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know and didn’t say anything about how Carwin took it.

by truck on Jul 14, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

i think carwin meant that as a dig

he’s been VERY touchy about our coverage from the beginning when we covered his manager’s legal troubles.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah i just think its funny if you don’t wont to read negative or articles that paint you in a less then stellar light then dont click on the article and get off the internet all together. Lesnar has more then his share of critics but he could care less because he doesn’t read every little article put up about him.

"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar

by MMA_PITBULL on Jul 14, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

Carwin’s been a pain in the ass because he reads the blogs and he’s pretty smart but he doesn’t quite get what we do — he makes the classic “they just cut and paste” whining that drives me crazy. wake up and smell the coffee Shane, it’s 2010, blogs aren’t going anywhere.
we’re the cud chewers of mma information overload.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

[Blogs are] the cud chewers of mma information overload.

Brilliant!

Nice article. You’ve been on a roll lately, well done.
  
I think this last fight was one where the UFC not only had the fighter whose the bigger draw win, but the loser dramatically increased his own drawing power as well. Can’t think of another fight where that’s happened …

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Machida vs Shogun

on a much smaller scale.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good call. I knew there were other examples, just couldn’t think of them.

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

oh and thanks very much

the positive feedback is appreciated.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Out of everybody i always enjoy your articles the most, Agree on a lot of different things and when we don’t you state your side in a way i can’t really disagree.

"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar

by MMA_PITBULL on Jul 14, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see Carwin getting the loser of Nelson/JDS

As it would leave one fighter on a 2-loss streak.

More likely IMO, he gets someone like Russo or Kongo first, then perhaps the loser of JDS/Nelson, but only if it is Nelson.

Depending on how well Nelson and JDS do against one another, HW could become something of a circle like LHW at the top.

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

oh i could see Dana throwing Roy to the wolves

right away. Nelson is in that Frank Trigg category. They’ll fuck him every chance they get.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

which sucks

b/c as thin as the HW division is, you’d think that they’d want Roy to stick around, win some fights and keep this interesting. By giving him JDS, then Shane back-to-back, you run the risk of eliminating Roy from any talk of future contention.
*
if Roy does lose to JDS, i’d like to see him fight Congo myself. Give Shane Rothwell to beat up for a bit.

by SNATCHFACE on Jul 14, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ultimately, Roy is probably at his peak as an MMA fighter right now

If he can’t beat top contenders, he probably wasn’t ever going to.

by Trysdor on Jul 14, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he, like JDS, has the misfortune of being prime at the wrong time

Nelson is very, very good almost everywhere and has no real weaknesses that have been exposed yet. Problem for him is he is not elite in any one area. Kind of a larger, more rotund Nate Marquardt.

JDS has the misfortune of being an elite or near-elite MT guy with supposed high level BJJ skills in an era when the HWs are dominated by MMA wrestlers.

Good as both guys are, I find it highly unlikely either finds a way to beat Lesnar, Carwin or Cain more than 2/10 times…

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Depth is such a problem at HW though

I agree Dana will try to fuck Nelson every chance he gets…I think his head might literally explode if Nelson beats JDS…

Having said that, I think they will be smart enough to keep any of the top HWs, few as they are, from fighting each other aside from title fights and perhaps some top contender fights.

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

i hope you’re right. or we sit back and pray for a Josh Barnett sighting w/in the next year

by SNATCHFACE on Jul 14, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

IDK how ready his game is now, or how the AC's will treat him

But Barnett’s catch wrestling style was also enjoyable for me. Don’t see him a world-beater, but he could still be relevent enough to help.

Hopefully a couple of others either step up or move in (Overeem, I am talking to you…)

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah i'd love to see Barnett in the UFC

Dave Herman needs to be rescued from the wilderness too, although he could prolly make 205.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Boooooooooooo

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 14, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not what I’m booing, and I think you knows it :p

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 14, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ain't never gonna happen,

and for good reason.

Barnett is DONE, he had his shot in the UFC, and hell in MMA generally.

I liked his style as a fighter, but I wouldn’t mind if I never saw him fight again. 3 failed tests? He won’t even own up to it! What he did is terrible, and he will NEVER fight in the UFC again. Why do people around here constantly defend that schmuck?

(I hope this doesn’t pass into fighter bashing, Barnett really got under my skin as you can tell. My point is simply that fighters who can’t abide by the rules, and can’t own up to making mistakes after MULTIPLE times being caught shouldn’t just get an infinite # of passes.)

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carwin says he will be tested thoroughly by his doctors to prevent this from happening again. Changes in diet and training should help fix the issue.

Maybe he should step aside from the engineering job and focus on being a fighter for the time being. If he would of pushed him self to his limits in practice he would of already knew of this short coming. The guy gassed HARD, He is a big guy a little too big for his frame the added bulk wasn’t worth it in the end. I say train full time work a lot of cardio and stay around 250 and he should be fine or at least better off.

"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar

by MMA_PITBULL on Jul 14, 2010 9:43 AM EDT reply actions  

I think he might be screwed either way

Being as big as he is creates a definite advantage against a guy like Brock, who just overpowers most of his opponents. If Shane leans out and gets closer to whatever his natural body weight should be, there’s a good chance he’d sacrifice some of his ability to shrug off Brock’s takedowns.

On the other hand, I wonder if he can ever get the level of cardio he’ll need to go into the championship rounds at his current weight.

On another note, I really like Shane, was rooting for him in the fight and didn’t mind what he said after the fight. I don’t think he was ever trying to take anything away from Brock.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Monte Fisto on Jul 14, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lactic Acidosis?

You mean, a build up of lactic acid? The thing that happens to everyone as a fight continues?

This quote is telling to me:

Knowing that something was wrong when the first round ended

Nothing was “wrong”. Carwin was gassing. That’s not a great thing, but it happens, and it’s not as if some sort of illness hit him, which is what this seems to imply. This is what happens in any sport. The key is – can you overcome your body’s natural desire to stop being pushed so hard?

HeadKickLegend.com

by Fraser Coffeen on Jul 14, 2010 9:45 AM EDT reply actions  

UMMMM no

His nerves got to him. It’s different then cardio in my opinion. He had an adrenaline dump. That is a head issue more then a conditioning issue. imho

by Gi_choke on Jul 14, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

He had an adrenaline dump.

He hyperventilated and almost passed out because he over loaded his body to a point it couldn’t recover from. He seemed more then calm before the fight. He emptied the tank and Lesnar was still there. If anything Lesnar getting up at the end of the first round broke him mentally.He knew sitting on the stool he gave it all he had and it wasn’t enough.

"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar

by MMA_PITBULL on Jul 14, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

One of the chief ways lactic acid is removed is via oxidation – i.e. Cardio.

For sure, nerves & the moment contributed to it, but it is still a failure of cardio as well.

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

That is a head issue more then a conditioning issue.

I 100% agree with you here. That’s kind of what I meant by the whole idea of overcoming your body. When you push yourself that hard, bad things are going to happen to your body, no matter how much training you do. It’s up to your head to determine if you can continue to fight through it, because your body certainly would much prefer you to stop.

All time great fighters are those who can persevere even when their bodies are ready to give out on them. Other fighters get by on their skills, but don’t have the mental toughness to reach that very top level. I’m not saying Carwin is in that category just yet, but I do not think his mental game is as strong as it needs to be to make that step up.

Is that a fixable condition? Absolutely. Just ask a pre- and post-Serra GSP. But it will only be fixed if he acknowledges it needs to be fixed, and doesn’t focus on the mysterious adrenaline dump or the sudden bout of lactic acidosis.

HeadKickLegend.com

by Fraser Coffeen on Jul 14, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

You are both wrong and right

Lactic acidosis is quite real, and the likely cause. It is what starts as the burn when you over-tax a muscle group, and it eventually ends in near-failure of said group.

But it is caused by insufficient oxygen in the bloodstream. It is largely a training issue, cardio alone doesn’t prevent it, but also a pacing issue.

“Adrenaline dump” is the non-condition, at least medically speaking. There is an often huge adrenaline surge during fights (leaves you shaking badly immediately after), but that does not cause what Carwin describes.

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cardio alone won’t prevent it – but Cardio helps a lot!

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

That is actually an excellent point

It wouldn’t cause it, but it could make it worse by allowing you to push yourself farther than you normally could before you really feel the effects…by then its likely too late as the adrenaline surge can’t last indefinitely.

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not a has-been, just no longer elite or near-elite

The game at its highest levels has passed him by, as it eventually does all one-dimensional guys (Liddell, Ortiz, various jitz guys, various old-school wrestlers)…its evolve or be left behind.

I’m not saying he becomes a can, but I can’t see a scenario where he will ever again be more than a fringe top-10 guy again – there are just too many LHWs that are better than he is…

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rampage isn't one dimensional

The game may have passed him by – he’s always hated training, and doesn’t seem to have the same passion for fighting anymore.

But he has strong functional MMA wrestling, good sub defense, and great MMA boxing. Could he do more w/ kicks, checking kicks, mixing takedowns in? Yes. Has he stagnated and failed to evolve recently? Maybe. But he isn’t one dimensional.

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

He may still have some wrestling somewhere

But its been years since he has shown any at all. Then again, he trains at wolf’s lair where wrestling is all but illegal, so…

If anything, he has devolved since PRIDE, improvements in his boxing notwithstanding…

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

It just has to be cardio specific to MMA. He has to develope a program to specifically overcome that problem (ie doing extensive heavy bag striking to simulate throwing shots) AND, perhaps more importantly, to learn to feel the signs of it starting so he can pace himself.

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, exactly. I think Carwin was overconfident in his cardio b/c he had great “gym cardio.”

He should be able to improve – if not entirely eliminate – the problem by training smarter, and possibly getting a little leaner as well.

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder how much stress plays a part in gassing as well

Dude had a full time job, a new baby, and fighting against his biggest challenge to date on the biggest stage he’s ever been on.
I saw in one video he said his boss was mad at him for not being as productive as in the past, his ole’ lady was mad because he was training and not helping her enough and his trainer was mad because he’d come into practice tired. I’d be pretty stressed.

I get more rec's then a Toyota!

by DayGeaux on Jul 14, 2010 9:47 AM EDT reply actions  

It can actually play a huge part

When the body stays under near-constant stress it releases too much cortisol which jacks with all sorts of functions.

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah if stress can cause ED no matter the age I’d hate to see everything else it could do.

I get more rec's then a Toyota!

by DayGeaux on Jul 14, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

No Rope-a-Dope

Ali knew exactly what he was doing. Lesnar was in full-flight panic, trying to survive. To Lesnar’s credit, he was aware enough to fight back when prodded, but to think he was “playin’ possum” to sucker Shane into wearing himself out is far-fetched.
I do appreciate your mea culpa when it comes to admitting that fans are quick to judge a fighters post-fight words as “excuses” or “blame”. Sometimes a fighter is just trying to talk through his experience, and it can be interpreted in the wrong way.
Here’s to hoping that Shane adjusts his training to come back stronger than ever.

by Dootch on Jul 14, 2010 9:47 AM EDT reply actions  

I dunno

watch that fight again. I think Lesnar definitely panicked when the initial flurry touched him, but once he was on the ground I think there was definitely an element of playing possom.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

IMO, he was recovering, and that was his only thought. Turtling, with just an occasional leg thrust, is probably the worst way to feign being hurt, because there is a very real danger of the fight being stopped.
And there is nothing in Lesnar’s words after the fight that he had any such kind of strategy going on, only statements suggesting that Shane’s punches were losing steam as the round went on. That was said in relief, in a “that’s when I knew I was going to make it” admittance, not in a “just as I planned it” way.

by Dootch on Jul 14, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

it’s a stretch to compare Lesnar to Ali. Ali’s performance was one of the legendary sporting achievements of all time. but I like the Carwin-Foreman analogy so much that Lesnar/Ali gets dragged in there.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

"'m still not seeing Carwin landing a really clean shot before Lesnar fell and he only landed a couple of clean shots on the ground. "

Shane doesn’t need clean shots. Slight touches cause bones to turn to powder.
Shane’s chief exports are : Pain and unconscious-ness.

by Gi_choke on Jul 14, 2010 9:54 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

lol, both this comment and the one above it deserve a rec.

by The Darkness on Jul 14, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes they do

Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump

by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 14, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

ANd that brock stood up after the storm and submitted him was fantastic

Lesnar made a fan out of me that night for sure. I still like Shane better and I think he will take the rematch.

by Gi_choke on Jul 14, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I totally agree. Dana can’t let Carwin sit on the shelf. No b.s. TUF coaching stint please. I think he should get one fight, then back at a title shot, regardless of who the title holder is at that time. As for Carwin’s thin skin, he certainly can’t take everything people say to heart. We’re fans of his, and even fans will critique the fighters they love – or at least they should. The last thing anyone needs are more starfuckers.

by pud333 on Jul 14, 2010 10:09 AM EDT reply actions  

Carwin expended a tremendous amount of energy in the first round. He was wailing on Brock non-stop for about half of the round. This will exhaust anyone. As a case in point, watch the Joe Warren – Patricio Freire fight. Patricio was kicking Warren’s butt, and in the final 30 seconds of the first round Freire let loose with a flurry of blows and a submission attempt that nearly ended the fight. But it didn’t, and Warren (who to his credit was vomiting all day prior to the fight) had something left. For the next two rounds, Freire (a Brazilian national BJJ champ) essentially let Warren lie in his guard (although, to be fair, Warren was active enough, IMO, to win those last two rounds and Freire did make a couple half hearted sweep and submission attempts if I remember correctly). In his previous match with Reis, Freire had gone three rounds (which included a lot of wrestling) and was still reasonably fresh at the end. This is all to say that this sort of thing can happen to anyone, and it remains to be seen whether Carwin actually has a cardio problem, let alone a serious one, or if he just needs to pace himself a little better. I’m guessing it’s actually the latter.

by The Darkness on Jul 14, 2010 10:14 AM EDT reply actions  

Boxer’s train on the heavy bag so they can go a whole round of power shots.

Look at George Foreman (who also used to let the big moment drain him, at least when he was younger) vs. Ali. Foreman doesn’t get tired till many many rounds of rope a dope.

And Cardio is the chief way lactic acid gets removed. I know swim coaches in my area who would train their athletes to get to the point of lactic overload and then recover quickly. They did this so their swimmers wouldn’t just be “gym fit,” but would have endurance even in big tense situations where they needed to dig deep during the final stretch.

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Foreman and Ali also fought outside in the Zaire heat.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jul 14, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah there's really only the smallest comparison

and in no way does Lesnar vs Carwin stack up.
I mean the Rumble in the Jungle was documented by Norman Mailer. UFC 116 gets Kid Nate.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

all the more so!

Power shots, done correctly, shouldn’t drain you after less than half a round!

The Ali-Foreman fight is definitely one of the most epic fights of all time. It may be my personal favorite, just b/c of what a shocking upset it was at the time. Let’s put it this way, Foreman was (according to many experts and some of his trainers) a better fighter in his 50s (50s!) b/c he had his head on straight and was more relaxed in the ring than he was in his physical prime. But in his physical prime, Foreman has to be considered one of the most talented heavy-weights ever. The combination of footwork, balance, were power are off the freaking charts.

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

What it seems like Carwin has been trying to say through all of this is that he let his adrenaline get the better of him, abandoned good form and punched himself out in the first round. Next time he’s in that situation, I imagine he’ll probably be more methodical. Just like Brock when he fought Herring compared to Brock when he fought Mir.

by Jason H. on Jul 14, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's not what he said at all

An “adrenaline dump” is a “condition”.

Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump

by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 14, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you’re right on with his future. He can take the Nelson/Cigano loser. If he wins he can fight the LESNAR/Cain/Nelson/Cigano winner.

Perhaps my best years are gone. When there was a chance of happiness. But I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now. No, I wouldn't want them back.

by jebushchrist on Jul 14, 2010 10:33 AM EDT reply actions  

cro cop vs shane carwin

 thats whats next for carwin…the winner of this fight will fight the winner of nelson vs jds..and that winner should fight the winner of lesnar vs cain….lesnar son

by prodigymma on Jul 14, 2010 10:59 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

no man

Cro Cop needs to be on the senior circuit, not fed to the lions.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

theres no point fighting if u dont want a title

 if cro cop doesnt want to fight the best to get back to the title hunt dana needs to let him go

by prodigymma on Jul 14, 2010 11:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I disagree

There are lots of great fights to be had that do not affect the title picture at all, involving guys who have zero chance at ever contending.

Just good, compelling fights will do for me.

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

i agree with you but try to understand their mindset

i will try to explain this.. if this doesnt make sense just let me know lol… even tho there are great fights and great to view from out stand point..these fighters all still want a title. in their mindset they will be were they want to be one day..once a fighter loses this state of mind ( like cro cop…well i think cro cop lost it) its time to cut the string and let him go.. i mean bonner perfect example…he had a war with forrest,, and a war twice with the polish experiment…great fights and fun to watch but i bet u if u ask him..u think u will be in the title hunt? he will say one day i hope to be there.

by prodigymma on Jul 14, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cro Cop asked for Couture, Nogueira, or Gonzaga. Very little chance he wants Carwin right now.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jul 14, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am actually impressed with Crocop

He did take super amount of punches from JDS and still didn’t go down until his eye failed him. I mean Carwin will knock him out but crocop can still beat some guys. I want to see Crocop vs. Liddell with both retiring after.

by SheepleBuster on Jul 14, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

not me

i’m a HUGE liddell fan, but i don’t want to see him fight again, regardless of who his opponent is.

by SNATCHFACE on Jul 14, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Right

I don’t even want to see Liddell – Ortiz anymore…can you imagine if Tito caught him…

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

what! tito has no ko power standing...i still want to see tito vs chuck 3

chuck will win and retire with a W…chuck has tito’s number…tito cant stand and chuck will stuff tito’s takedowns…chuck is still a complete fighter..tito doesnt have 1 ounce of ko power on the feet…franklin has plenty of ko power but no1 seems to see this..look at his record. plus if tito loses he will make more excuses or he will see he isnt there anymore and retire himself..or go to SF..lol he has more health problems than any1

by prodigymma on Jul 14, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Please no

dude, Rich Franklin hadn’t knocked out anyone in over 5 years before the Chuck KO. He wasn’t supposed to have KO power either, but chuck ran right into that punch and we all know how that ended. Chuck has lost his chin, in it’s entirety. Let the man go gracefully into the sunset. I’m done watching Chuck lying on the mat.

by SNATCHFACE on Jul 14, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

lol i know man, i hate seeing chuck on the mat

but man its bothers me to see a legend like chuck go out without a win..i honestly think chuck and tito are still in the same era of fighting ( u know what i mean) they havnt evolved like other fighters have..i would still pick chuck in that fight.

by prodigymma on Jul 14, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

i would too, but imagine if he ended his fighting career w/a KO loss to Tito?? that would be devastating to Chuck and to all of the Tito-Haters out there. I’ll pass. If Chuck showed any signs of having a chin, I may rethink that, but not now.

by SNATCHFACE on Jul 14, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

well good talk bro..but for now

agree to disagree…. lol good talk bro..this is how BE supposed to be ..civil chats between fans

by prodigymma on Jul 14, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

What a noob

jk

I get more rec's then a Toyota!

by DayGeaux on Jul 14, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

i know cro cop is talking retirment BUT

i would not throw easy guys or beatable guys at cro cop…he just beat a really good fighter..(even tho i think cro cop was going to get ko’d there for a sec but dude showed cro cop to much love)..what im saying is ppl still want to see crop cop fight for some reason.. give him some top notch guys..like carwin…and if cro cop doesnt want to fight championship opponents he needs to retire now…and i think in the jds fight.. cro cop lost his heart..he gave up in my eyes

by prodigymma on Jul 14, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

that's the thing

I don’t think Cro Cop wants to take any fights that he has a good chance of getting KTFO. Personally I think a fight between him and Nog or Mir would be appealing.

by SNATCHFACE on Jul 14, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why do you hate mirko?

I’d rather see Mirko vs. Nog – or even Mirko vs Mir.

Maybe this is b/c I love Mirko and don’t want to see him brutally knocked out and/or retired.

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

even Mirko vs. Randy would be compelling

by SNATCHFACE on Jul 14, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mirko vs Toney

For Toney’s second fight!

by truck on Jul 14, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely

I’d forgotten about Mirko v Randy. I’d love to see that fight.

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hyperventilating? Blood pressure? Collapsing???

Sounds real dramatic to me.

Along with the “adrenaline dump” story this just sounds like a lot of excuses. :-/

Carwin losing some of his appeal in my eyes after this fight.

Semper Fi

by ChicagoMarine on Jul 14, 2010 11:18 AM EDT reply actions  

uh oh is carwin ok wit this article “kid nate”? just checking because last time he had you shook and made u change the title of your last article about him

by staytrue_and_b-real on Jul 14, 2010 11:43 AM EDT reply actions  

no

I changed it because it was unfair. I could give a shit what Carwin thinks. I don’t write for the fighters.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

@Kid Nate

This just in:. Kid Nate drops out of top 100 in Carwin’s best bloggers list (P4P list).

by SheepleBuster on Jul 14, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

he'll probably drop me to #10 just so he can shit on me again

in his review. that first time was clearly a pot shot.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Carwin is a weird individual.

Gets very defensive and uses F words while being a model to our children. He is confused about Mir but thinks Subo is #1 P4P journalist in MMA, even though he technically is a blogger. I am sure Carwin knows the difference. Oh. And his Vitamin sponsor always shows up in his lists somehow. Just like how he recommended Brock to switch to his sponsor to get over his draculaitus.

I wonder who’s #1 P4P journalist in Dana White’s book: it’s definitely not you or anybody from Sherdog. Maybe Kevin Iole?

by SheepleBuster on Jul 14, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

Carwin’s been a bigger pain to deal with than any fighter. and i go out of my way to avoid dealing with fighters. he inserted himself into a conversation then didn’t like it.
i do feel bat about the “blame” headline, that was over the line, but otherwise, if you can’t take the heat stay out of the kitchen big fella.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

I am surprised that the “social media guru” of MMA has not used his army to intimidate bloggers. The guy is always on Twitter and if you say something, slightly negative about his cardio, the field of engineering, his size, or anything that he does not like, it gets on Twitter. I do give him credit though. He loses the F word way less than Dana. I guess that includes 99.9% of us. :)

by SheepleBuster on Jul 14, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't I know it?

Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump

by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 14, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t see why a blogger would be intimidated. If you’re talking about someone, why shouldn’t they have every right in the world to reply? Nate got called out on the shoddy headline and even he agreed it wasn’t legit.

by Jason H. on Jul 14, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

well if wanted to be a monster asshole

he’d send his 36,000 twitter followers to harass me.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Before Carwin straightened me out,

I always thought that only dicks would loudly proclaim that someone else was a dick, while there were 180 degree opposite.

Thanks for clearing that up for me Shane!

by jhf884 on Jul 14, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh

and you’re banned.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I enjoy seeing people get banned waaay too much.

I'm a lover not a fighter

by spectaa on Jul 14, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Gotta love Rule #4

I get more rec's then a Toyota!

by DayGeaux on Jul 14, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

No more BE for you little fella.

"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."

by dancingChicken on Jul 14, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

+1

good article, the fight exposed weaknesses equally in Brock & Carwin. IMHO they’re both as exploitable. Lesnar is prone to gassing too but it would take a smaller faster HW like Santos IMHO

by kibbled_bits on Jul 14, 2010 12:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Changes in diet and training should help fix the issue.

From Shane Carwin’s Twitter account yesterday: “I ate Taco Bell for lunch but do not tell the wife”

by Ogueira on Jul 14, 2010 12:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Quality

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jul 14, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

dude is on twitter non-stop

he’s also apparently having “lingering” effects from his adrenaline dump

**also from twitter

Lactic Acidosis effects are lingering in my body. I could barely walk this morning after 5 games of Basketball

by SNATCHFACE on Jul 14, 2010 12:35 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm crossing my fingers for Carwin vs. Nelson/Dos Santos...

Though most likely he’ll just get a tune-up fight. Meh.

I’d save the tune-up fight for the loser of Carwin vs. Nelson/Dos Santos. Why not try and get these one of these guys back into contention by pitting them against one another?

by Hardcase on Jul 14, 2010 12:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Haha, man that wouldn’t be fair. Dos Santos would have to have beaten Werdum, Struve, CroCop, Yvel, Gonzaga, Nelson, THEN Carwin for his shot?

by nastyem on Jul 14, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

the ufc needs more HWs but they still have some intresting stuff ahead

 man if brock keeps winning there is oppertunities for mir vs brock 3..if mir wins a few in a row or if carwin keeps winnin there can be brock vs carwin 2…there is still some game play left with the few HWs they have..shit carwin vs mir 2 might happen again to see who will fight brock again. honestly josh barnett would be a good pick up for the ufc.

by prodigymma on Jul 14, 2010 12:59 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Carwin was in fine shape

I guess this is why Kid nate is a blogger and not a fighter. He should not be giving out advice on what Carwin needs to fix. Either should I but I dont know some things about training and wrestling. What carwin said happened to him I believe 100%. His body failed him in the second round. He went in for the kill and over worked his body. Had to much lactic acid in him and “gassed” as some people would call it.

We saw in the first round that Carwin could stop Leasner’s take downs. The second round showed us that Carwin can not stop leanser take downs after he throws 60 punches in a row. There is no amount of training that Carwin could do to prevent what happened to him. I can add to this later and I will read some of the comments but i just wanted to add a little to the discusion.

by Darren Watkins on Jul 14, 2010 2:19 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

mmm

could you show me where I gave Carwin any conditioning advice?
I quoted MMA Weekly saying that “Changes in diet and training should help fix the issue.” but that wasn’t me.
I don’t know if he mentally blew it or physically blew it, I expect it was a combination platter. But clearly he needs to make some changes if he wants to come back and beat a constantly improving Brock Lesnar.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Personally, I'll be rooting for Carwin to solve his conditioning problems and get back to the top ASAP.

ok maybe you didnt give him advice more so you hope he works out his conditioning problems. I stand corrected.

by Darren Watkins on Jul 14, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol

guess I should have said “I hope he works out his mental problems”

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 15, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

There is a considerable amount of MMA-specific training he could do, both to prevent it (well, greatly delay it at least) and to recognize the signs of it in the heat of the moment. As someone else noted above, great gym cardio does not = great combat cardio.

There is a reason you don’t see what happened to him happen too often at the highest levels of combat sports.

This goes for you too, Alistair Overeem (such as against Rua in PRIDE) – from total domination to totally dominated…

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

It does happend to people just not in such big moments. I know so many kids I coach who can go all day and night in the room and look like world beaters while doing it. Then they step on the mat and get worked by a kid our JV guy has beaten. This isnt b/c they are not conditioned it is b/c of nerves or tiring out from them and getting drained.

Same thing with Carwin. He trained to go beyond 5 rounds and his body locked up from over working it and the mental excitement of going of the finish. This loss will help him I think. He knows the pressures of trying to be the real champ and got really close. Now lets see if this happens to him again or not.

by Darren Watkins on Jul 14, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lactic Acidosis would've shown itself BEFORE his fight with Lesnar

He’s saying he could go 5 rounds in the gym, well then LA would’ve presented itself there too. Geez. This guy.

Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump

by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 14, 2010 2:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Not to pull the "Do you train" card

But honestly, there’s a huge difference between what happens in a fight and what happens in the gym. In the gym Carwin wouldn’t over-exert himself early on and if he started too his coaches would get him to back off. In a fight it’s a lot easier to fall of the track and not do things exactly as you should.

The guy obviously made a big mistake that cost him the fight, but the hate level here is unreal.

Testament to the influence of the writers on BE though, they are all on team “Fuck Carwin” it seems, and there’s a much much larger anti-Carwin base here than the other MMA sites on the internet.

by Jason H. on Jul 14, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'll agree

There is a considerable difference between what happens in the gym and what happens in a fight, but the fact remains that there is considerable MMA-specific (or combat-specific) training that can be done, both physically and mentally (as far as recognizing the signs and pacing oneself).

Having said that, were I in Carwin’s shoes, with victory so close I could taste it, I would have likely shot my wad as well going for the finish, and it is not uncommon for people to punch themselves out.

But also think back on so many others who caught themselves and backed off when they realized they couldn’t finish at that moment.

by BigDNotDallas on Jul 14, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

But honestly, there’s a huge difference between what happens in a fight and what happens in the gym.

And that’s precisely why I put little stock into Carwin’s trying to defend his gas tank by saying he can go 5 rounds in the gym.

by Hardcase on Jul 14, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

hate?

i just wrote the guy a fucking love letter.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 14, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

So Carwin never throws a bunch of punches in his training?

Everyone knows there’s a difference between gym and the ring which is why it’s absurb for him to say “Come see me train” as an indicator of his in ring cardio.

There are mental steps you can take to calm yourself down before a fight and put that adrenaline surge to good use. He didn’t do that. Then he had 3 or 4 different (what you call reasons) excuses for gassing out. What was the purpose for giving those (many of them unprompted) and not saying “I overexerted myself punching trying to finish”?

Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump

by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 14, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mental steps have a habbit of going out the window when you think your 3 or 4 punches away from being the best HW in the world

by Riley_96 on Jul 15, 2010 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

i also read somewhere that he was not breathing proerly during the fluries of punches. Alot if guys who get excited with punching tend to hold their breath for some reason.

by Riley_96 on Jul 15, 2010 3:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why does he defend his cardio?

Lactic acid build up means he’s not taking in enough oxygen as he fights, which basically means his cardio went down the drain.

by ontite on Jul 14, 2010 10:39 PM EDT reply actions  

To all questioning the Lactic acid build up.

Please stop. have you ever trained in mma or a type of martial arts? Have you ever been in a fight or wrestling match? If you have and still dont know about lactic acid build up please read about it. It does happen. He gassed bc he did not pace him self. He should have stoop Lesnar up and KO’d him in the first. It was clear leasner was not going to take Carwin down and that Carwin has better stand up. He went in for the kill and failed. The fight would have been stopped if other refs would have been in the cage. It was a great fight and I hope we see a rematch soon.

by Darren Watkins on Jul 15, 2010 12:14 AM EDT reply actions  

i agree that taking a more cerebral approach

would have helped him.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Jul 15, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

bad cardio and lactic are a result of him going to hard, and showing his inexperience, in crucial big moment situations

its not about training more cardio, its about training his mind to read the fight better and try to finish smarter. for example, standing back up and blasting lesnar again on the feet

bit of a stupid comparison but… when your choked out by a sub you dont train to breathe better in the choke, you train to not get choked in the first place. carwin should do the same. focus on not over exerting to that point if your not gonna finish the fight

by milson on Jul 15, 2010 12:22 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

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