Rashad Evans Happy to Wait for UFC Light Heavyweight Champ Mauricio "Shogun" Rua to Recover
by Kid Nate on Jul 11, 2010 9:49 AM EDT
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Sherdog reports:
UFC light heavyweight champion Mauricio "Shogun" Rua is on track for an early 2011 return -- possibly at the promotion's annual Superbowl weekend event in February -- after undergoing anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) surgery in his left knee on June 10 in Los Angeles.
...
Alonso said Rua injured his left knee during his first-round knockout victory over Lyoto Machida at UFC 113 last May in Montreal.
"It was precisely on the second takedown where he tried to take down Machida and Machida stuffed it and ended up on top," said Alonso.
Rua had previously undergone surgery on his torn left ACL in September 2007, following a disastrous promotional debut against former 205-pound champion Forrest Griffin at UFC 76 in Anaheim, Calif. Rua also had a follow-up operation on the same knee in 2008.
This is excellent news. Shogun Rua has long been heralded as the future of the 205lb division. Now that's he's finally taken the title, it's unfortunate that he's dogged by knee injuries.
I'm thrilled that he appears to be recovering quickly, I just hope that he doesn't rush back into the Octagon too soon. There is the possibility that the UFC will issue an interim title belt while Shogun recovers and I hope he doesn't feel pressured to return to action too soon so he can stave that off.
Rashad Evans, fresh off his big UFC 114 win over Rampage Jackson, is at the front of the line and has expressed no interest in a rematch with former champ Lyoto Machida for the interim belt, per MMA Fighting:
"I'm really not in a rush to fight right now - I'm ready, but I just want to fight the best fighters," Evans said. "I know he fought Machida when he was hurt, so I can wait to fight the best Shogun. I'm not like, 'Ahhh - I need to fight! I need to fight!' There's a lot of things I can do with my time when I'm not fighting."
...
He said the potential time off between fights - which would be around 10 months if Rua is able to fight in March - isn't a concern to him. Evans went nearly 10 months between fights after beating Michael Bisping at UFC 78 before knocking out Chuck Liddell at UFC 88, which got him his title shot against Griffin.
And while Machida's manager, Ed Soares, has said publicly he believes there should be an interim title fight between the two former champs, Evans said - from a preparation standpoint, at least - it's not something he needs to do.
"I've been fighting for seven years now, so I know what it's like and I know what it means to fight and everything like that," the Greg Jackson product said. "I'm a veteran in this sport. I'm not going to forget how to fight. I won't forget what it's like to be in there. I'm not going to forget all the experience that I have before. For me, going in and fighting for the sake of fighting, I'm over that stage in my career. If I do, it just creates another barrier, another roadblock. They say he won't be able to fight until March. This won't even be the longest time I've had off."
Something tells me that Lyoto Machida is going to have a hard time finding opponents to put together a come back run. If Rashad Evans wants no part of a rematch with "the Dragon", who could blame him?
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i would like to see a rematch
but i dont know if the ufc would set it up since machida is coming off of a loss and evans coming off of 2 wins.
Machida has never fought BROCKLESNAR.
by ufc4 on Jul 11, 2010 10:22 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Re: Machida has never fought BROCKLESNAR.
Or Joe Warren.
"Caol Uno was like Mutoh. He developed into a star overseas and then returned to his home country a much bigger deal. Dokojanuse Mishima is like Kobashi because they both do moonsaults. Don Frye is like Stan Hansen because they are both fat dumb rednecks with mustaches." - Jonathan Snowden
by RagingNoodles on Jul 11, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Machida. I think he beats 99% of light heavyweights out there
But he just showed in 2 fights that he can’t figure out a guy like Rua. And he can be touched and knocked out. I don’t know. The pressure may be got to him. I just don’t see him beating Rua. Fighting with Rashad is nice but I don’t want Machida to get a title shot unless he beats 3 people.
by SheepleBuster on Jul 11, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
He already beat Shogun once. To me a five round fight says a lot more about how guys match up than clipping a guy and landing into the mount for a finish.
How did I end up on this bandwagon and why does everything say property of Chael Sonnen?
You mean slipping a punch, countering it, passing to mount on the knockdown, and turning the lights out on the "future of the division?"
Yeah, just clipped him…
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
machida looks weak because he pretty much got beaten two times in a row by the same guy
but he’s still 16 – 1 and has some pretty amazing wins over tough opponents. there are a lot of fighters who are going to be in trouble if put up against machida. i wouldn’t write him off just yet.
Go big red!
rashad looks weak
by not jumping at the opportunity to redeem himself against machida
by oousty on Jul 11, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
This^
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 11, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
that's probably because he doesn't want to risk 'stanky leg part II'
that’d make him look really shitty.
Go big red!
What? Machida is a stylistic nightmare for Rashad. You can’t blame him for wanting nothing to do with the dragon.
Makes him look smart to me
He’s earned the title shot, the money he would put himself in line for by beating Rua >>>>> the money he would put himself in line for by beating Machida.
Not afraid to nitpick
doesn’t matter if Ra-shard somehow got the belt from Rua, cuz Machida will just take it away from him again.
This is true, and it’s why Rashad doesn’t want to avenge the loss until he gets a crack at Shogun.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 11, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention ....
…. his scouting department ( Keith Jardine ) can’t go scout his potential fights before hand .
Generally when you lose a fight your chompin at the bit to avenge that loss . Guys like Rampage , Lesnar , Liddell and others would jump at the chance to avenge a loss , but Rashad knows Lyoto will just trash him again and he’ll have to fight his way back up the ranks . And why not wait on another ring rust opponet ? Rua’s last comback from surgery his first few fights were not great , but once he got his wind back he looked like the Rua we all remembered . So Rashad seems to just want to take the easy way out and fight yet another fighter coming off a long lay off instead of going out and showing folks that he can beat anyone in the division .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Jul 12, 2010 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Uhhhh
Liddell didn’t want no more of Rampage or Rashad.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 12, 2010 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Point is IF offered ...
…. Chuck ( in his prime ) would have gladly taken a rematch to avenge a loss .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Jul 12, 2010 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I’m not really giving him any grief for it though. He’s earned the shot, beat two top opponents in a row, and Machida is just his kryptonite. Just one of those things…
I think Rashad has a better chance to beat Shogun than he does Machida, but Shogun obviously has Lyoto’s number. Lyoto, much as I’m a fanboy for him, should have to win at least one fight before being back to top contender status.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 12, 2010 3:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Not necessarily aginest another ...
…… top guy , but a the very least an impressive preformance aginest someone . A rematch between Lyoto & Rashad would be nice just to see Suga get " stanky legged " again . That would also serve as a victory aginest a top guy and could get him a back to being " The Dragon " and rebuild his confidence .
I just think that minus a Rua v Rashad fight that Rashad needs to keep proving he’s really the guy . Defend your status rather than just wait around . Act like a champion even though your not . Fight a Franklin , a Machida and prove folks like me wrong . You know the guys that don’t think much of him and all his stalling . Just my opinion though .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Jul 12, 2010 3:36 AM EDT up reply actions
You sick bastard! You’ll do anything to see Rashad destroyed!!! :)
P.S. What in God’s name is Ozzie Guillen feeding the White Sox? I was all worried about the Twins, I turn around, and the Sox are leaving piles of bodies in every park in the country…
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 12, 2010 3:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Danm right !!! Rashads destruction ....
… is what makes me happy !!!! :)
As for the Sox , it seems like Ozzie may be feeding them the blood of the innocent and fulfilling his pact with the devil cause they we’re playin like crap and then all of a sudden their leadin the division .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Jul 12, 2010 4:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Thiago Silva's an interesting case
As he admitted that he’d rather go for the belt first, and that he enjoyed watching Machida get KTFO, but I haven’t heard him wanting the Machida rematch if he beats Boetsch… so I wonder what’s what, there, considering he’s the fighter that Machida had more comprehensively clowned.
I'd like to see a rematch between ....
…. Thiago and Rashad . Thiago and Machida not so much . Thiago got killed by Lyoto period , whereas Rashad used his stall tactics to win . It would be interesting to see if Thiago could do any better knowing what was coming and was given ample time to prepare for the wall & stall / lay & pray . I would think that if Thiago beats Boetsch that he may want some revenge himself , but who knows . Another solid fight for Thiago would be Rampage . It would be like Thunder Dome for that fight ….. Two men enter one man leaves .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Jul 12, 2010 4:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Your hatred of Rashad really knows no bounds.
It kills you to see that, doesn’t it?
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Did he finish him ??? Hell did he even hurt ....
….. him with that ? No . The last portion of the vid says that . All he did was knock him off balance .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Jul 12, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I bet that right hand didn't hurt at all.
But I guess it did just lead right into the ‘wall and stall’
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Yea so no matter how bad ....
…. it may have hurt ( though I think it did not ) Rashad followed it up with a bunch of nothing .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Jul 12, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Thiago will have a high enough ranking, yet lack the power to prevent
Himself from being a forced sacrifice for Jon Jones.
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 12, 2010 10:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So RUINED by Machida, took out Jardine, UD'd by Evans, may beat Boetsch, would get sacrificed to Jones
Oh gawd no, Thiago IS the Jardines!
yes
especially because imo he hasnt looked impressive lately. thiago silva would have won their fight if they had used pride scoring (and probaly should have been a draw) and hugging rampage doesnt impress me. not sure why he gets a title shot.
When a former champ beats 2 top ten fighters back to back it shouldn't surprise you when he gets a title shot
Especially when one of the top 10 fighters was the #3 and the other he only fought because the #3 decided he didn’t want to fight for a while. Sounds like a pretty solid reason for a title shot to me…
I guess the real question to me is why Lyoto even deserves to fight for the title again since he hasn’t done anything since getting KTFO in the first and losing the belt?
in addition to that
i’d like to note that lyoto has beaten some tough guys like frankyln, bj, ortiz and thiago silva; i think he deserves more credit and goodwill than he’s getting right now.
Go big red!
LOL @ BJ
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 11, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Why LOL at that?
If memory serves, BJ is one of the only guys who has ever been able to take Machida down. Granted, it was via some sort of body lock I think, but…
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 11, 2010 8:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Machida HAS actually been taken down in the UFC
By Sokoudjou (judo) and KazNak (judo)’s clinch takedowns.
If the credible guys like Forrest, Rampage, and Rashad doesn't want to fight Lyoto,
who the hell should he fight to get back in the title hunt? Jason Brilz?? Ha!
Now that he doesn’t have the title, people would have even less reason to accept a fight with him, and risk getting clowned…
The only ‘name’ guy that could interest fans is probably a rematch against Rich, but I’d get it if he, or the UFC wouldn’t want that fight…
by Anton Tabuena on Jul 11, 2010 10:00 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
yeah ed soares is talking about Rich Franklin
they’re also talking about Vitor Belfort for some reason.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
They're talking about Vitor
in the hopes that Machida would beat him so that Anderson in turn wouldn’t have to fight him.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Jones
Jon Jones will give him a second loss.
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
You want Jones to go from Matyushenko to Machida?
How did I end up on this bandwagon and why does everything say property of Chael Sonnen?
Yeah, that’s not the greatest idea. Jones is an amazing talent and progressing by leaps and bounds, but Machida could well frustrate him and expose his lack of knowledge of how to adjust and overcome an opponent who doesn’t engage in a traditional way. Jones will likely beat the Janitor, and if he does he needs a step up in competition, but Machida is too much too soon. If the UFC handles him at the right pace, he could build a ton of steam behind him, but a loss to Machida could do a lot to set him back in peoples’ minds.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Damn shame, Rashad. Fight Lyoto for that Interim! I think Wrasslin’ ’Shad takes out Machida.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
Unfortunately for him, "Wrasslin' 'Shad has the same chance as stand-up Rashad - Zero
Machida is a far worse match-up for Rashad than even Rua who is at least vulnerable to takedowns.
Machida has never been taken down by a single/double leg in the UFC – he has elite, if unconventional TDD.
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 11, 2010 10:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It wouldn’t surprise me if Evans is the one taken down via trips.
"Caol Uno was like Mutoh. He developed into a star overseas and then returned to his home country a much bigger deal. Dokojanuse Mishima is like Kobashi because they both do moonsaults. Don Frye is like Stan Hansen because they are both fat dumb rednecks with mustaches." - Jonathan Snowden
by RagingNoodles on Jul 11, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep. Does anyone else remember how he tossed around Tito like a rag doll on Tito’s take down attempts?
How did I end up on this bandwagon and why does everything say property of Chael Sonnen?
I like Rashad a lot, but this is what’s happening to him if he tries to implement his top notch wrestling game against Machida in a rematch:
"Caol Uno was like Mutoh. He developed into a star overseas and then returned to his home country a much bigger deal. Dokojanuse Mishima is like Kobashi because they both do moonsaults. Don Frye is like Stan Hansen because they are both fat dumb rednecks with mustaches." - Jonathan Snowden
by RagingNoodles on Jul 11, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Uh, those takedowns were TERRIBLE
Rashad’s shot is MUCH better that that bullshit Tito just did.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 11, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, ok.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Rashad's shot is not that much better...
And besides, Machida is quicker and faster than Rashad…almost no way Rashad makes it past his elite (if unorthodox) TDD.
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 11, 2010 7:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes Rashad’s at a point where he’s much better at setting up his takedowns with his strikes than Ortiz was in that fight. HIs takedown of Jackson in Round 1 was epic and I’m probably alone in genuinely loving the Evans vs Thiago Silva fight due to Evans’ performance.
But I think Machida will be able to keep the right distance and be able to utilize his beautiful skills to be able to counter Evans’ takedowns. I just hope the loss to Shogun hasn’t negatively affected Machida’s mindset.
"Caol Uno was like Mutoh. He developed into a star overseas and then returned to his home country a much bigger deal. Dokojanuse Mishima is like Kobashi because they both do moonsaults. Don Frye is like Stan Hansen because they are both fat dumb rednecks with mustaches." - Jonathan Snowden
by RagingNoodles on Jul 11, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true; just because Rashad’s takedowns are better than Tito’s at this point doesn’t mean he’ll be able to take Machida to the mat without getting his head taken off. Machida knows he doesn’t have to worry about Rashad’s striking, and we haven’t really seen someone with the ability to take Machida down consistently. I highly doubt Rashad is that guy. Especially since Rashad, as a small light heavy, relies on a speed advantage over most guys at 205, something he doesn’t have over Machida.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Shitty attempts at takedowns were posted to show that Rashad can't take Machida down
Those do not reflect the way Rashad takes people down. That was terrible form. Have you guys taken someone down before? Or watched a Rashad Evans match?
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 12, 2010 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I will admit that those were poor comparisons to Evans' MMA wrestling
Considering that on one of those takedowns, Machida had actually sidestepped out of the way before Ortiz really did his shot…
If Evans were to rematch and go the wrestling route though, I’d like (for his sake) to see him integrate the clinch takedowns by Sokoudjou and Nakamura.
That really came off as petulant, man. Of course I’ve watched Rashad fight; I actually like Rashad. And of course I’ve taken people down before, but not very often cause I’m really bad at it. That’s why I like sweeps so much. It’s just that I think – as I said above – that Machida is a terrible match-up for Rashad. He doesn’t have the speed advantage over Machida, something he had over both Silva and Rampage; he clearly had trouble finding his range against Machida in the first fight, and I think that Machida’s hand speed and countering style combined with his unusual stance are really difficult for almost any wrestler to deal with.
As has been commented elsewhere here, the only takedown attempts that have any history of success on Machida are from the clinch. Rashad’s style includes clinch takedowns, but is much much more reliant on shots for single and double legs. Those are seriously hard to get on Machida.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Shogun is gonna be using a walker in his 40’s by this rate.
How many surgeries can the knee take? Seems like 3 on the same knee in 3 years is a sign that there will likely be more surgeries if you continue to fight in MMA.
yeah
I’m not optimistic for Shogun’s long term prognosis. something tells me he’ll end up more like Bas Rutten or Frank Shamrock than Randy Couture.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
and frank retired at 27
his comebacks aside — almost all his later fights show what a shell of himself he became without reliable knees.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
As someone who is likely to have to go in for his third ACL reconstruction on the same knee I have the same worries. The knee seems to get weaker every time and while you can compete at a high level again after 10 months to a year, you really don’t get back to where you were before the injury (in terms of cardio, strength and confidence) for about two years.
How did I end up on this bandwagon and why does everything say property of Chael Sonnen?
Ok then, Machida vs… Matt Hamill?
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
Agree 100%
I just hope that he doesn’t rush back into the Octagon too soon.
by banter on Jul 11, 2010 10:13 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I bet Jon Jones wouldn’t turn down a fight with Machida. Just sayin…..
by ufc4 on Jul 11, 2010 10:14 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
As much as i like him...
He turned down a fight with Lil nog….. Just sayin…..
I’m not resting until I’m officially Anderson Silva status.- Jon "Bones" Jones
by AfroSamurai on Jul 11, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
A) he said he’s never turned down a fight, B) that was what, on a week’s notice? Really don’t see how that would have any relevance to a Machida fight.
by ufc4 on Jul 11, 2010 10:20 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed - Nobody at LHW wants to fight either Machida or Jones...
Unfortunately, Machida, with his elite TDD and elite clinch work is probably the one guy who could give Jones real problems (after Maty + 1 more fight).
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 11, 2010 10:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Even still
Jones’ length would definitely pose problems for Machida’s style. It works because his head is usually out of range, Jones has that insane reach…
Not afraid to nitpick
Honestly
Aside from Rua – A. Silva, Machida – Jones is the most compelling fight among the 5 best LHWs to me…
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 11, 2010 1:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think it’s compelling too, but I think Jones needs to beat the Janitor and then another guy who has at least been talked about as being in title contention (Thiago Silva? Rich Franklin?) before challenging Machida, and Machida needs at least one good tune-up fight before taking on Jones. And I say that because it’s a fight that you want to build up properly and have the winner be seen as THE legit, undisputed top challenger for the belt.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Couldn't agree more.
Left off the (after Maty + 1 more) behind Jones this time, but those are good choices.
Jones is not yet ready for Rua, Anderson or Machida (as the +1), and most other top or name LHWs won’t fight Jones (Rampage, Rashad, Griffin).
T. Silva might not have enough juice with the UFC to avoid fighting Jones.
I don’t think they would sacrifice Bader to Jones, and those “loyal soldiers” who would fight him if asked (Couture, Franklin) would get ruined by him.
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 11, 2010 9:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah I agree with that, but I think Jon will have another fight after Vlad before he gets to that level. Randy and Rich are both making noise about wanting to get into title contention again. I’d be really curious to see Randy vs. Lyoto, just to see if Lyoto can handle the clinch game. I think he can. And Rich deserves a contender level fight after the fucking gauntlet he’s been running, Chuck excluded.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 11, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
It's vice versa
Machida might well refuse a fight with Jones. It’s a likely loss which is the last thing he needs right now.
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
If you love Jones why would you root for this fight? Jones’ path to victory would be through takedowns and using his extreme length to land strikes in the guard. Lyoto has some of the best takedown defense in the UFC and has great takedowns of his own.
While Jones’ unconventional striking works on guys used to traditional striking it won’t surprise Machida on his feet.
How did I end up on this bandwagon and why does everything say property of Chael Sonnen?
Agreed...
Machida is the single worst match-up for Jones…he’s the only guy I wouldn’t pick Jones against (after Maty+1 more fight).
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 11, 2010 3:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Why does
Machida think he should be right back in the title hunt? He got beat down twice by Shogun, he is out the picture for a while.
by Easedel on Jul 11, 2010 10:18 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for truth
I’m not resting until I’m officially Anderson Silva status.- Jon "Bones" Jones
by AfroSamurai on Jul 11, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
truth in your head isnt fact.
the facts are machida won the first fight whether or not some fans think he didnt
by cmcbeast on Jul 11, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
the facts are machida won the first fight whether or notsomemost fans think he didnt
Felipe Melo não nasceu, ele foi expulso do útero
by Orcus on Jul 11, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Figures this is where you’d show up again:)
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 11, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Fine then; so taking the first fight into consideration, what has Lyoto done
to be back in the title hunt? He hasn’t fought anyone since losing the belt in as bad a loss as Rashad but Rashad at least beat 2 top ten guys to get another shot.
The problem is...
none of the top 10 contenders wanna fight Machida, so he should have to fight lesser opponents just to get back in title contention? It says something if a fighter doesnt want to fight another fighter. I think if you want to get the gold thats the guy you should have to go through but thats just my opinion.
He should be in the title hunt because he’s one of the best light heavyweights in the world and he beat Shogun in their first match
He’s in the hunt but to suggest he should be fighting for the interim title right now is ridiculous.
He’s the last guy to hold the title before the current champion got hurt. If they had an interim title fight, Machida has just as much argument as anyone else.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
There were 6 guys in the division back then, let’s try to keep the discussion to fights that have happened recently.
by ufc4 on Jul 11, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
are you kidding me?? my point is the UFC is not above giving a guy a title shot after a loss and Machida has just as much of a case to be in an interim match as anyone else
All the cases you are bringing up are immediate rematches of title fights though, Rampage-Machida isn’t.
Yeah, there’s really not any perfect way to do it though, no matter what they did people would be unhappy. I think for the most part they do a pretty good job with it. It just makes it really tough in a situation like this when there are so many top guys in the division with recent losses.
Henderson got a shot at Silva after losing to Rampage.
Ya, he held the belt in PRIDE, but it was off a loss. There are enough situations of a guy getting a title shot off a loss that it shouldn’t be looked at as impossible. Especially in a situation where they are fighting for an interim belt.
by Swordslasher on Jul 11, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
true but....
the fight with Rampage was for the LHW title and the fight with Silva was for the MW title. Henderson held both belts when he left Pride so the title fights in the UFC were title unification bouts more or less
by capt insano on Jul 11, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
what’s ridiculous about it? The number one contender is someone he absolutely destroyed. Who else would you have fight for it? The way the UFC sets up their title matches is sketchy to say the least I’m not a fan of interim belts but I’m not a fan of ducking fights either
He should have to at least win one fight before fighting for the interim belt. Rashad-Anderson Silva would be my interim title fight.
by ufc4 on Jul 11, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^
Rashad actually has a small chance against Anderson, at least in a 3-rounder, which is more than he has against Machida.
This would bring order to LHW by having the 2 best LHWs in the world, Rua and Anderson, fight for the title.
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 11, 2010 10:50 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wrong
Rua is not better than Jones.
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
lol
the gold around his waist says that yes, he is in fact better than jones. or any other lhw for that matter. i understand the hype but jones has gotta beat someone in the top 10 before you say hes better than the champion of his weight class.
by Nellieball on Jul 11, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Oh is that how it's decided?
So if Silva moves up to LHW, Rua is better than Silva because he has the belt? Nice try.
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
All Jones can do is destroy the people he faces. He does. He could destroy many he hasn’t faced. He will.
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
I would be willing to put money on Jones against any top LHW, possibly excluding Machida, but
Even though I personally feel Jones would beat Rua (again, after Maty+1 more), I think at this point I have to consider Rua as #1 (and Anderson as #1a) until someone proves otherwise.
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 11, 2010 2:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And as exciting as Jones is, he has to prove he’s the best. Yes, that means he has to wait for the UFC to give him the better fights, but combat sports are a “show me” sort of thing. Jones has shown he can beat all hell out of mid-tier talent, but how many fighters have looked unstoppable until they hit the top tier (ex. Thiago Silva)? I personally think Jones is a future champion, and a dominant one, but until he faces the highest level of competition, I’m not prepared to say he’s the best.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
dude i love jones i just think i have higher standard that you. gotta do more than beat vera and ragdoll hammil to have me put him up with the big dogs of the division. although he is off to a great start
Look...
Just because someone hasn’t faced the best competition yet doesn’t mean he won’t beat them when he does. The idea that we can discount anyone who’s new to the sport as being able to beat the established champion is ridiculous. There are legitimate prodigies. Jones is one.
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
I dont think anyone is dicounting jones.
like i said, my standards are higher than yours. jones could very well be the greatest fighter in the history of planet earth, but he has to show me first against elite competition. if/ when he does (and i think he will) i will rank him accordingly.
“dont put him in canton yet”
- Bill Parcells
oh come on. Jones is 22 years old I wish people would stop selling this kid like he is going to be the greatest ever. His biggest win is Brandon Vera. It’s a little early for that.
I hope Vladdy wins just so people will give this kid more time to develop.
Talent Assessment FAIL
Yeah, and Strasburg is only 21, so there’s no way he’s better than anyone else on the Nationals pitching staff or in the majors for that matter. Talent is talent. There are probably wrestlers in the NCAA right now who could beat the crap out of some top 10 fighters in their respective weight classes.
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
Strasburg is great, but why don’t you let him pitch against some of the better offenses in the league once the book gets out on him before anointing him the chosen one. The Jones parallel is a good call in that both are extremely talented, lack experience and have fans salivating over potential placing them on a pedistal of unreasonable expectations.
How did I end up on this bandwagon and why does everything say property of Chael Sonnen?
The book on Strasburg already is out
Better try to hit 99 because you aren’t hitting that curve (almost 1900 RPMs is the most on any curve in the big leagues that I can find….and he throws it at 83)…..and his changeup might be his best pitch (31% swinging strike rate is insane, that’s better than Lincecum’s changeup). Good luck.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 11, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yup
And the most damage I’ve seen Jones take was an illegal kick to the chin from Vera. I’m not saying Jones is the best MMA fighter ever — I’m just saying he’s the best one right now; I’m not saying he can’t be beaten — I’m just saying no one in UFC’s LHW stable can beat him.
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
what you are really saying is that you THINK nobody in the UFC’s LHW division can beat him. I THINK there are plenty that can. It’s the nature of MMA to be so unpredictable. Nobody thought that anyone was gonna KO Machida either and Shogun did. I like Jones brutal style but I’ll wait to jump on the hype train when he gets some better competition under his belt
by capt insano on Jul 11, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Jon Jones
is a much bigger version of Urijah Faber without the submissions and a better wrestler. He’ll run into a crisp striker and he’ll get knocked out.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
You be sure
to let me know when that happens. I’m betting it doesn’t.
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
I would agree with that if it didn’t hold up the Middleweight belt and Anderson wanted a part of it. I just don’t see anyone else who deserves a title shot more
i cant stand rashad
They paid him way way too much money. He got like $250,000 for that weak ass performance against rampage. No wonder he wants to put off his next fight for as long possible. Anyone who fights with the intent of using top position to win decisions safe is a chump. I can’t stand rashad. I personally couldn’t care less when he fights, the later the better.
by PipRocks on Jul 11, 2010 10:42 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
How dare Rashad fight smart and strategically! He should have just fought Rampage in the standup the entire fight right? Fuck his wrestling background. Utterly schooling someone on the ground is such a cowardly thing to do. And yeah he doesn’t deserve any money at all; he should be forced to fight for free.
by Bandaka on Jul 11, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Utterly schooling someone on the ground is such a cowardly thing to do
What did Rashad do to Rampage on the ground? One side mount, and one half guard is hardly an “utterly schooling”.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 11, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Taking someone down = schooling on the ground?
Once in the first round, and two time in the third. 3 takedowns, 12 attempts. Efficacy=25%. Wow…
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 11, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
As long as its within the rules...
At the end of the day, all that matters is the W…
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 11, 2010 10:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yep, I really didn’t care for Rashad’s gameplan but if I was him I’d probably have done the same thing, he wasn’t gonna win a striking match with Rampage.
He probably did win what little striking there was
Rampage connected with his shot in the 3rd, Rashad connected with his shot in the 1st and just off of memory Rashad landed more non-haymakers other than that.
Not afraid to nitpick
agreed
but impressive wins move you up the later quicker. if rashad wants to lean/ lay on people without causing damage or advancing position, he should have to fight between 4-5 fights to get back to title contention, not 2.
Quicker up the ladder?
That “unimpressive” win against Rampage got Rashad a title shot. How much quicker can it go for him at this point?
As for your whole 4-5 fights thing, that’s just stupid. Who else should he fight? Who’s more deserving of a shot than him?
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
1) meant “up the ladder” whoops.
2) i am saying beating rampage in the fashion he did should not have gotten a title shot. neither should beating thiago silva in the fashion he did.
3) jon jones, couture, lil nog, bader, machida, brilz, anderson silva. plenty of guys for him to fight.
4) this is just my opinion. i think guys that win impressively or in a one sided fashion should be rewarded quicker than those who lay and pray.
i say if rashad wants to play the scorecards they make him fight 4-5 guys before they give him another title shot…. like jon fitch.
So all of a sudden
you have to beat guys a certain way to get a title shot? That just sounds ridiculous.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Again that's just silly
Why don’t we just go back to the very early UFC’s, eliminate things like rules and time limits and forget judges, etc… A win is a win and the only thing that counts at the end of the day is Ws. This is a sport and not all victories can be dramatic and exciting. If we’re going to start putting conditions on the value of a win then you might as well just start watching pro wrestling.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
by Worldisart on Jul 11, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep.
In my mind, nobody deserves a title shot unless I see them win a ladder match. Maybe tables and chairs too.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
*applies to everyone but jon fitch
If rashad is gonna turn into jon fitch, we should treat him like jon fitch
by Nellieball on Jul 11, 2010 3:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nonsense
Fitch and Evans aren’t comparable in anyway. Don’t deny Rashad his success just because you don’t like his style.
"I thought I was getting raped by Freddy Mercury."
- Tank Abbot
on his decision loss to Dan Severn in 1995
Nope.
Fitch holds guys down, has stifling top control, and deals out a ton of accumulated damage over the course of a fight. That sounds nothing like wrestler-Rashad.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Exactly
Rashad’s lack of top control is what will ultimately doom him against Rua and his sweeps.
Fitch has suffocating top control, but the problem for him is that there is no reason to think he’ll fare any better against the same champ he lost to last time. If there were a new WW champ, Fitch would likely be first in line for a title shot.
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 11, 2010 7:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If Rua comes in top form, Rashad is in for a short night
Hopefully the long injury layoff doesn’t affect Rua the way it did after the last 2 surgeries. I don’t think there’s a fighter out there who can hold down a healthy Shogun, especially a mediocre wrestler like Rashad.
by capt insano on Jul 11, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
What?
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 11, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Rashad is a former title holder, with solid wins over a top ten fighter in Silva, and a top five fighter in Jackson. He does not belong with some of the fighters you mentioned:
Couture is coming off an unimpressive win to Vera, and a win to Mark Coleman. Now he is engaging in an admitted freakshow bout against a pure boxer. While interesting, this fight is a lose lose for Rashad in terms of relevancy.
Jason Brilz was a total unknown who is famous for giving lil Nog a run for his money. Losing to an exciting lower top ten member does not put you in the mix with someone with two straight (admittedly messy) wins over top ten and top five competition.
Bader is an up and comer who knocked out Keith Jardine. God, I love Keith, but that is not the most impressive feat in these times.
Whats good for the goose...
Evans lost his belt and undefeated record via spectacular KO and had to beat 2 top 10 lhw’s to get a shot at the belt again.
Lyoto should be given the same treatment.
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
my other issue with rashad
is the length of time between fights. if the champion is on a lay-off due to injury, i don’t think that gives the #1 contender a pass. rashad should have to fight someone in between to retain that status, & why not against the man who decimated him?
"Live fast, die."
So since you’re shitting on Rashad for waiting for Rua I assume you feel the same way about Cain Velasquez waiting for Brock?
Cain waiting for brock was partly due to dana white not wanting to match JDS with him. The UFC wantedCain to fight for a championship,and also have you read anything about Cain ducking a fight in order to keep his #1 contender status.
Yes, Nate said that Cain has asked to wait for the title shot instead of taking a fight.
by ufc4 on Jul 11, 2010 5:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I could swear I’ve seen him say it a couple times but I can’t find it now so I’m gonna withdraw my statement til I can confirm it with Luke or Nate.
Considering Lyoto crushed one of those guys and the other flat out refuses (on multiple occasions) to get in the cage with him, how is he supposed to get two fights against top ten guys? Are there even two top ten guys who would take that fight?
How did I end up on this bandwagon and why does everything say property of Chael Sonnen?
Also you can’t compare the two in a vacuum. You also have to consider whether the champion is ready to fight (he’s not) and what other contenders deserved a shot more at that time (other than Rashad what LHWs do?).
How did I end up on this bandwagon and why does everything say property of Chael Sonnen?
How about Arona for Machida?
I read an interview a while back with Arona where he said he wanted to fight for the UFC in the fall. I would like to see Machida vs Arona.
Interim title shots are killing me...
The casual fan doesn’t even know who the real champ is anymore. Machida only defended the title once and then lost it. He does not deserve a title shot. Machida should fight the winner of the Jon jones fight.
by frizzkills on Jul 11, 2010 12:42 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Rashad is so annoying
You can see right through his fairy reasons for waiting til shoguns healthy… Which isn’t the smartest endeavor cuz a healthy shogun might actualy pull off an even more brutal KO then machida did
by disputedchamp on Jul 11, 2010 1:08 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Rashad has the best chance to beat shogun
gonna bet on him for the upset
Anderson is going to make Chael his Play boy (No Homo)
Idk bout that
If it was a three rounder I could see him controlling/laying on him enough for a decision but not for 5 rounds…
by disputedchamp on Jul 11, 2010 1:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree that he will have his time,
But he is the wolves…they will have a very hard time finding a top-10 fighter willing to fight him, outside of Machida, Anderson & Rua – none of whom he is ready for yet.
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 11, 2010 6:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bad bad idea for Shogun
Does anyone remember how difficult a time he had coming off his last ACL reconstruction (against Griffin and Coleman) – it clearly takes a while to get his cardio back up and his comfort in using his knee back.. Coming off a layoff with a weak knee and sub-par cardio against a wrestler thats going to make him work with the same strategy that Rashad used against Rampage is pretty much the worst matchup possible in his first fight back.
How did I end up on this bandwagon and why does everything say property of Chael Sonnen?
I still can’t believe that people are under the delusion that Machida is still untouchable it’s almost like his last 2 fights against Shogun didn’t happen. The fact is Machida is in no position for a title shot after what are back to back losses. Rashad earned his shot and will beat Shogun to win the LHW, if Machida earns a shot he’ll get beat too. Evans learned his lesson the days of him trying to be a striker are done he’s gone back to basics and that’s a bad matchup for almost any LHW out there.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
I don't think Rashad wins that fight if Shogun is healthy
Shogun is good at hitting people in the face and Rashad isn’t good at taking shots to the face… my expert deduction….anyways Rashads gameplanning is good at getting him the W but I imagine Shogun will have a good idea of what that gameplan is. We all do. Oh yeah and Rashad can’t beat Machida. Not sure what you saw in his first fight that makes you think otherwise. I don’t think the Rampage fight was a good indicator either because Rampage fought an extremely lazy fight
by capt insano on Jul 11, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
your right rashad beat 2 top contenders to get a shot at the belt
but if those were 5 round fights he probably would have been knocked out in both
No delusions about Machida being untouchable after his ONE loss...
He is certainly vulnerable to truly elite MT strikers, but there are only 2 at LHW in the UFC, one of whom he lost to once already, and the other whom he won’t fight (Anderson).
He MIGHT prove vulnerable to an elite MMA wrestler, but having never faced one its hard to say, and the fact remains that he’s never been taken down with a single/double leg TD.
The problem for Rashad is that he is neither an elite striker (MT or otherwise), nor an elite MMA wrestler.
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 12, 2010 11:17 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If Machida wants to get back in contention
he can fight Anderson Silva. It’s about time the Blackhouse whiners get their hands dirty.
I’m praying that Sonnen somehow miraculously takes out Silva, then both Silva and Machida have less bargaining power and have to take fights they don’t necessarily want. The cherry on top of the cake is if somehow Ed Soares is muted for life so we don’t have to listen to any more of his BS either.
Annoying as it is,
I don’t see any realistic way for the UFC to force guys from the same camp to fight one another (Anderson/Machida, Fitch/Kos, Rashad/Jon Jones, etc).
It is particularly annoying for those with collegiate wrestling backgrounds, as fighting your friends/team mates is the norm at the college and olympic qualifying levels.
by BigDNotDallas on Jul 12, 2010 1:37 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They are in different weight classes. There’s no obligation to do super fights.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jul 12, 2010 3:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that the Machida vs. Silva hype died down enough that Dana White doesn't even want it anymore
So there goes your little fantasy… cough
The only Black House guy I have it out for is Jose Aldo for being a month older than me. :P
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