Back Rides & Nelsons: A correction for Kid Nate and BlackLesnar

With regards to Kid Nate and Blacklesnar's breakdowns of Brock Lesnar's skill assessment, I'm just going to help clarify correct terminology for certain moves and reasons for certain strategies.

First of all in response to Blakclesnar's criticism of Lesnar not having 

... the back of Herring several times and did not even attempt to get hooks in. Does he not know how to apply submissions or is that just not in his game? We don't know.

This is clearly an example of only really knowing a bit about the the ground game from Brazillian Jiujitsu, or rather more likely BJJ influenced commentary from Joe Rogan since that is the ground art he trains in.

Getting both your hooks in is not mandatory. It is simply a preferable back ride in Brazillian Jiu Jitsu and taught as the orthodox progression in position in BJJ. It's a back ride also found in wrestling and it's known as the Stretcher Ride.

A ride in wrestling, unlike a pin, is the ability to maintain position on an opponent who still has the ability to move in some manner, where a pin is trying to stop all movement all together. For example, a high mount in BJJ is a ride but a low mount with legs grapevined is more akin to a pin. The stretcher ride becomes a pin when the opponent is flattened out.

There are other rides from the back in wrestling such as the Navy Ride or Ball & Chain ride.

My point is, just because Brock Lesnar didn't attempt a Stretcher Ride on Heath Herring does not show he is technically inept. If you track down post fight interviews with Lesnar or trainers Greg Nelson or Erik Paulson, their strategy involved shutting down Herring's ability to scramble from having his back taken which he has shown he's capable of especially if a stretcher ride is attempted. Lesnar showed typical wrestling control against Herring who was in referee's position aka quarter or turtle. Lesnar's position is ideal for setting up either half nelson turnovers, or even the entrance to a Wrestler's Guillotine aka The Twister.

There isn't a back ride more dominant then the other, there are just alternatives which set up different control or submission possibilities. So the next time a wrestler has another fighter's back and doesn't attempt a Stretcher Ride, hopefully you won't be so quick to judge.

Now, onto Kid Nate's "One Armed Full Nelson" label. The position is actually a Stocks or Stockade. It's not used so much in today's scholastic wrestling but of it's ancestor, Catch Wrestling or Catch As Catch Can Wrestling. This is again a likely influence from trainers Greg Nelson and Erik Paulson. Paulson developed his own MMA training system known as Combat Submission Wrestling or CSW, which includes influences from BJJ, Judo, Sambo, Shooto style and European style Catch Wrestling, and that's just the grappling side of it.

Lesnar used the stockade while in half guard, but it can also be used as a point of side control for both striking with the freehand or attempting a neck crank or after a modification side-stretch on the opponent.

The stocks or stockade does look very similar to a reverse half nelson, so it's understandable why Kid Nate referred to it as a one arm full nelson.

Again these corrections are simply meant to educate to help everyone expand their knowledge on this great sport of MMA.

I currently contribute to the Catch Wrestling United thread on Sherdog, stickied in the Grappling Forum, with a blog of the same title coming soon.

Thanks for reading


KJ Gould

\The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

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