Josh Rosenthal Selected to Referee Brock Lesnar vs. Shane Carwin, Mazzagatti Comes Under Fire
The Nevada State Athletic Commission met today to select a referee for the main event of UFC 116, a heavyweight title fight between Brock Lesnar and Shane Carwin. Under consideration for the bout were Josh Rosenthal, Herb Dean, Mario Yamasaki, and Steve Mazzagatti, and Rosenthal was ultimate selected for the job after a unanimous vote by the commission. Judges for the title fight were also selected at the meeting, with Adelaide Bird, Glenn Trowbridge and Tony Weeks getting the nod. It was Mazzagatti who garnered the most attention at the meeting though.
In attendance were Lesnar's agent, David Olsen, and UFC attorney Michael Mersch who both argued that Mazzagatti should have been removed from consideration for the assignment. Sherdog's Loretta Hunt explains:
Olsen said he and his client believed there was "at least a perception of bias among the public" following Mazzagatti’s officiating of a bout between Lesnar and Frank Mir at UFC 81 in February 2008.
During that bout, Mazzagatti halted Lesnar mid-attack to issue him a point deduction for punching a grounded Mir in the back of the head. The bout was subsequently re-started in the standing position and Mir went on to win with a first-round submission.
Citing Mazzagatti’s "controversial decision," along with public comments the referee had made in the press afterward pointing to an "actual bias" and the criticism the referee received regarding his officiating that night, Olsen requested that the referee be removed from consideration from the July 3 title bout.
MMA Junkie had the quote from Mersch:
"We believe that some of the other options the commission has may be a better fit because they would provide a higher-caliber performance in terms of the high-profileness of this particular event," Mersch said. "Mr. Mazzagatti, as I think everyone is aware, has been publicly criticized by [UFC president Dana] White several times based on his concern for the health and safety of the fighters. Mr Mazzagatti might not be performing up to the level we would expect and we've come to appreciate."
This is not the first time that Lesnar's camp has made such a request regarding Mazzagatti, as they did so unsuccessfully prior to Lesnar's rematch with Frank Mir at UFC 100 (although Herb Dean ended up being appointed for that fight). Both Lesnar and UFC president Dana White have also had less-than-kind things to say about Mazzagatti on numerous occasions since the first Lesnar-Mir fight. In the past, NSAC director Keith Kizer has defended Mazzagatti, as he did when speaking to URDirt prior to UFC 100:
"I don't know why Steve's got such a bad rep from Dana," Kizer said. "All I can think of is Steve, as a fireman, he has paramedic training. I think compared to the other referees, he probably knows better if a guy is hurt or not."
Although Kizer declined to comment during today's meeting, it was he who recommended Rosenthal to the commission before they selected him with the unanimous vote. Nonetheless, the request from Lesnar's camp and the UFC was yet again turned down by the commission as explained by chairwoman, Pat Lundvall:
"Those objections are not legitimate grounds by which to disqualify Mr. Mazzagatti from consideration," Lundvall said.
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Good move. I’d always prefer Herb, but Rosenthal is easily #2. Having a big ref is a safe move too with those two rhinos in the cage.
He’s hoping Brock won’t recognize him. Shave the stache and keep still, Steve. Brock can only see moving mustaches.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 10, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Mazzagatti has made some very questionable decisions in the last year or two. But, why isn’t John McCarthy under consideration? Is his feud with the UFC keeping him from officiating their events?
He can't get a license in Vegas
Without really getting detailed, he’s just not a licensed ref in Nevada.
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by Matthew Roth on Jun 9, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
do explain.
"Sometimes hype just ain't enough." - Jens Pulver on his win over BJ Penn
by lowellthehammer on Jun 9, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
and it had absolutely nothing to do with the UFC/Dana being mad at Big John for working with competitors and saying crap about the UFC
by JeremyShane on Jun 10, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
that’s part of it, but he also said crap about the NSAC, which people think for some reason they should just ignore, or that it’s 100% dana’s fault.
I didn’t give up his license, he just never renewed it since he wasn’t planning to ref at the time. Now that he is on the outside trying to get in he has to get in line and apply like everyone else that is looking to be a ref for the NSAC. Just like any employer, they can use whatever discretion they choose based on his previous work performance and any public appearances or speaking engagements that McCarthy participated in.
I am sure if the UFC, being a major MMA organization gave an official recommendation to the NSAC they would add it into consideration when they have a position to fill. John’s resume is impressive but there are also things that are a cause for concern since there is a perceived conflict of interest between him and the NSAC’s biggest customer, the UFC.
They exist to protect and regulate the sport in the state of Nevada but they still work as a business and want their relationship with the UFC to be positive
I thought I heard something about him criticizing NASAC we he wasn’t ref’ing.
I get more rec's then a Toyota!
Yes that is true as well. the NSAC doesn’t need the UFC to dictate their blessing or not to make their own decision about hiring John. They have plenty of their own reason’s beyond whatever beef is between Dana and John. Although if he did reconcile his differences with Dana and the UFC I wouldn’t doubt that it would make it easier for the NSAC to look past their own issues with what John said in the past.
Where all of the arguments fall apart is when you consider John’s work inside the ring. The guy was damn near perfect since the beginning and if that’s a priority (it’s the only priority in my mind) the NSAC should jump at the chance to get him back. Sure, there may be hurt feelings, but at the end of the day, John was a great ref and continues to do good work.
Life lesson. Don’t burn your bridges
I get more rec's then a Toyota!
by DayGeaux on Jun 10, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
INDEEEEEEEED.
And John made mistakes just like everyone else. Trying to remember him as some perfect ref is silly.
Besides, if he had such great judgment, why would he go around shitting on his former bosses?
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Freedom of speech?
He could’ve kept his mouth shut but maybe the former cop in him wouldn’t do that.
That would def add to his problems with them. But with Dana’s grudge holding abilities and isn’t a Fertita on the commission still? I’ve heard they have a little influence with them by some.
by JeremyShane on Jun 10, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
that makes sense ...
for this event. But, not the other UFC & WEC events that have taken place outside of the NSACs authority. Obviously the UFC has a lot of pull when it comes to assigning officials for their events. Still, thanks for the knowledge.
by Johnnynumber5 on Jun 10, 2010 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
You're forgetting how much pull the NSAC has with the UFC
The LAST thing Dana wants to do is piss off Keith Kizer. He’d be better off firing the entire heavyweight division.
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Ummmm... No?
The UFC lives and dies on the whims of the NSAC.
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I think those days are past. I’m sure they could really hurt the UFC, but they’ve grown past the point of living and dying at their whim.
by JeremyShane on Jun 10, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
How many events are outside Vegas?
I know the percentage is slowly shifting, but…
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Judges won't be necessary.
Yo, I'm smokin herbals till it hurts you
I keep your daughter way out past her curfew
by TitanFan2K on Jun 9, 2010 11:41 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah this is a short shift he’s working…
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jun 9, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
To the contrary, I think they’d need at least two. Honestly, how can theye expect Josh to be able to pull those two guys apart?
They should have a SWAT team on standby at ringside for this one.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Jun 10, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Pffftttt...
Chael Sonnen could pull these two apart with a thumb and an pinky amputated to the knuckle. Guys with dick sword tattoos would never make it five minutes in his neighborhood.
by BVandDietPepsi on Jun 10, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Nice.
Also, neither of these cats would be able to hang with the top 10 of the UFC’s MW division, seeing as how its the toughest division in the promotion. I mean, they have a pro wrestler as the HW champ? C’mon.
Good call. Mazzagatti shouldn’t be reffing bum fights, let alone Carwin vs. Lesnar.
by GetYourHeadStomps on Jun 9, 2010 11:48 PM EDT reply actions
Mazz is a decent ref compared to guys working regionals.
but he should not be given main events. I’d keep those to Mario Yamasaki, Herb Dean, and as of late Josh Rosenthal. BJM could but I don’t buy the constant MMA fan love of him. He’s a good ref, but the other three I listed are just as good these days.
If Mirgs keeps working on improving, he could be a solid ref for the UFC a few years down the line. I fear Mazz is a lost cause. Brian Beauchamp is a guy to keep your eye on, and may be working bigger shows in the next few years.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I personally think Mirgs is THE worst ref in the big show.
by judonerd on Jun 10, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's learning quickly.
I think he did a shit-awful job on Mir-Carwin, but he’s improving from his early days. And if you watch enough regional shows, you’ll long for him.
I might be a little biased because he’s a really great dude in person, but I do think he still has potential.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I’ve rarely seen a fight that he didn’t somhow fuck up in some small way or another, and he listens to the crowd booing way too much, treating it like a poll on whether he should stand them up or not.
Being a nice guy is never an excuse for incompetency, but that’s just, like, my opinion, man.
by judonerd on Jun 10, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Again, watch the older fights he reffed.
He’s gone from unacceptably bad to sub-par relatively quickly. Which, while not a great stopping place, is big improvement. And he’s WAY better than dudes on regionals, Beauchamp aside. He’s a knowledgeable guy who’s learning the craft well but suffering from well publicized learning errors.
Try talking with him for awhile though. He’s such a great guy, really friendly and polite. One of the things that gets lost by disconnected fans is that the people they knock for being unskilled at their job are often some of the nicest people in the world. It doesn’t change their failings, but it’s important to differentiate their perceived ability to perform a task and their quality as a person.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
He gets a lot of crap for the Pete Sell/Matt Brown fiasco, but Yves Lavigne is still one of the top referees in the sport.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Jun 10, 2010 3:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I used to think Yves was one of the best in the business, but he has been struggling lately.
The most recent example is in the Brilz-Nog fight where he started to tap Brilz on the back during the guillotine and then changed his mind. Unfortunately, Brilz felt that tap and started to let go of the choke. That was a huge screwup, almost as bad as Sell-Brown.
http://www.sackstevemazzagatti.com/
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
What we need is someone who can pull
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
two gorillas apart. Maybe they should get one of those riot fire hoses.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
by Ubernoober on Jun 10, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
What were Maz’ public comments? I didn’t have any issue with the point deduction, but I never heard what he said.
Okay, I can understand having Mazzagatti not ref Lesnar, because Lesnar feels he has a bias.
But I’m sick to death of hearing this thing about “controversial point deduction”. Lesnar made an illegal strike. There’s no arguing that. It’s on tape.
To boot Mazzagatti did explain after the fight that he did issue a verbal warning before the deduction, but the crowd was so loud that night, noone heard him.
So there’s a verbal warning (heard or not, I guess it couldn’t be helped given how loud it was) he has to stop Lesnar from continuing the illegal strikes, which weren’t in any way accidental. So Mazzagatti decides to halt the action, and deduct a point.
Just about every other ref would’ve been happy to merely stand them up. GSP got at least two or three warnings for punching BJ in the back of the head.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Jun 10, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
This is where the stupidity of the complaints comes in. The point deduction made precisely zero impact on the fight, but arguably the stand-up could have had some impact. Unless we are to presume that Lesnar believes he should have just been allowed to continue with illegal strikes.
Most
Fights involving ground and pound have illegal strikes, especially when the fighter with dominant position is trying for the kill. Mazz had it out for Lesnar. Hell pre fight he stares lesnar down with mir. Its over though. Mazz sucks regardless.
by silent.bisonte33 on Jun 10, 2010 8:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It was controversial. There’s no evidence that Mazzagatti gave a warning. And if he thinks he did, he should have the awareness to realize that the fighter couldn’t hear it.
The strikes were anything but intentional. Lesnar was hitting the face, and Mir was thrashing, and moved so that legally aimed strikes hit him in the back fo the head. It wasn’t close to a foul that merits a point deduction.
And I will of course disagree.
And given the number of shots taken to the back of the head, the separation/stand-up needed to happen regardless of the point deduction.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
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A UFC exec citing Dana White’s gospel as grounds to remove Mazzagatti from consideration is some pretty goofy shit.
Mike Mersch, much like Wu Tang
ain’t nothin’ to fuck with. He’s a smart guy.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
i'd like to see Troy Mandaloniz reffing UFC events
he’s got a lot of experience, and his reaction time on the Anderson/Okami DQ was much better than we’ve seen in similar controversial DQ stoppages. anyhoo.
I believe he’s only licensed in Hawaii
by Scott Haber on Jun 10, 2010 8:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Why did they pick Rosenthal and not Dean? Can’t they just have Dean ref every main-event? Rosenthal’s a good ref but its weird that they all unanimously decided on him.
I assume they try and rotate main event responsibilities.
Honestly, I think Rosenthal is every bit as good as Dean.
All I know is:
“Those objections are not legitimate grounds by which to disqualify Mr. Mazzagatti from consideration,” Lundvall said.
There may be reasons to complain about Mazz, but “he didn’t let me punch somebody in the back of the head” isn’t one of them.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
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If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
As a fervant and unapologetic Brock Lesnar fan
I agree with you completely.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
Because Brock isn't on TUF.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
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If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Although, how much fun would that be?
Think of the excitement:
- Brock living in Las Vegas: “My snowmobile is having a lot of trouble in this sand!”
- Brock trying to understand grocery stores: “When do I get to shoot something?”
- Brock vs. Doors parts 2-16: “GHAAAAAAAAAAARHRHRHHGHGHHHGH!”
I have as little interest as most people in Lensar/Mir 3, but that would be a GREAT coaching arrangement.
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