James Toney Training With "King Mo" Lawal to Prepare for Randy Couture
by Nick Thomas on Jun 8, 2010 12:09 PM EDT
in MMA News
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According to fighthype.com:
"Boxing legend James "Lights Out" Toney and Strikeforce light heavyweight champion King Mo Lawal both confirmed that they will be working together as Toney prepares for his MMA debut against UFC Hall of Famer Randy Couture. The two already got some work in this weekend and will continue to train together as the fight gets closer. Both men are looking at the opportunity as a win-win situation for both parties."
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I'm liking this
Despite how much of a troll he is it seems he’s making the right moves. Been nicer if it was at 205 though.
Food goes in here
what weight is it at?
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
No a 265lb limit is heavyweight, limiting the guys to 215lbs is a catchweight limit for the fight. Not sure what has happened with this but for a while it was being reported that agreeing on weight was a snag in getting the contract done.
Randy stated in a recent interview I saw that the fight is going to be at HW, because that’s what James Toney wants. There had been talks before that about it being LHW or catch weight, but most recent word was HW.
by Horselover Fat on Jun 8, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah Toney at his very best condition could make 205, but he’ll ba a solid 215. Maybe people will now stop comparing the guy to Slice, Canseco and Walker! I think James Toney is showing he has cast iron bollocks taking this on in the first place, and deserves a lot more respect than some MMA fans and writers have given him.
Training with King Mo
Could hardly be considered a bad thing…. However a few months, or a few years of training wrestling (especially at JLT age) isn’t going to stop Randy from, pressing JLT up against the cage dirty boxing and then double legging him down to the ground… where JLT will only get up after the ref pulls Randy off of him….
Can’t wait for this fight and props to JLT for having the courage to put himself out there and attempt a new sport at a very high level…. in front of millions of people all over the world…
Who doesn't train with King Mo these days??
This is good news for Toney and possibly very good news for Lawal. It def won’t hurt him to pick up a boxing tip or two.
i don't think it'll help ...
in the short-term for Toney. there’s just too much to learn in too short a time.
but if he can stuff a Couture takedown and implement his stand-up off of that, he’s got a chance.
and like everyone else, i’m glad to see Toney is actually taking this seriously.
visit my website: http://bobthewriter.com
but if he can stuff a Couture takedown and implement his stand-up off of that, he’s got a chance.
I don’t think even that will help. Randy doesn’t have to take him down to neutralize his boxing. He can just press him up against the fence and manhandle him in the clinch.
Toney’s only chance is to stay the hell away from Couture, and even in his athletic prime he was never very elusive or light on his feet.
good point ...
but Randy’s got to get his hands on him … and Couture isn’t nearly the fighter he once was.
but here’s hoping Randy gets ahold of Toney and pounds him out. Couture is my favorite fighter, and i want to see him win this one.
visit my website: http://bobthewriter.com
As someone who practices grappling, a couple hard months of training makes it hard for me to believe that Toney can put what he is taught in the gym into the cage. I mean, you are talking about someone who has been doing wrestling for years versus someone who is doing it for months. On top of that, you have someone in Couture who has been using his wrestling inside of the cage in an actual MMA fight for years versus someone who hasn’t even had an MMA fight.
Good for Toney to train with King Mo though, and contrary to what I said, this is exactly what Toney should be working on.
I agree with you
But Toney isn’t just some regular guy off the street trying to learn MMA and implement his game plan. He is an accomplished boxing champion who has presumably been punching things with his hands his entire life. I don’t know if he has any martial arts training other than boxing, but this is the fight he asked for and I have to believe he knew what he was getting himself into before taking the fight. Guess we’ll find out.
by Johnnynumber5 on Jun 8, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I myself don’t think it will make a great difference do to Toneys age and shape but he really does not have to learn how to wrestle all he has to learn is a half way decent sprawl and some def wrestling to stay on his feet. I still don’t think it will matter what he learns but thats really all he has to practice now.
Agree
As a coach of wrestling I really dont see how Toney can pick up years of wrestling practice and instinct that he will need to be able to stop Randy from beating him in the clinch. I would be shocked if Toney has any Take Down D at all. You can not learn these things in a couple of months and be affective against a MMA fighter with wrestling as the back ground.
Also MMA footwork is way different then boxing. How hard will it be to break the natural habit of the boxing stance.
by Darren Watkins on Jun 8, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
randys been wrestling for 30+ years
a few months of training with king mo isnt gonna help enough
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
I think it has to help a little bit. I mean we’ve seen guys with zero wrestling experience survive one takedown before. Sure this training isn’t going to prevent the fight from going to the ground, or give Toney a clue when he gets there, but it might help him survive one takedown attempt and maybe get a punch in. Its definitely worthwhile.
Or better yet...
Maybe it will show him what a takedown attempt looks like.
If he can see it coming he can move out of the way or try to hit Randy coming in.
Honestly, I think the biggest thing Toney needs to work on is his footwork as it relates to avoiding the clinch. Randy is not going to shoot doubles on him. He’s going to clinch up, press him against the cage, and maul him from there. Tony needs to work on staying the hell away from the cage and on disengaging from the clinch.
While it probably won’t help enough to neutralize Randy’s wrestling, the fact is the majority of grappling techniques that are actually used in a fight can be taught in a relatively short period of time. What experienced grapplers have over newcomers is the nuance, transitions, and advanced techniques that don’t show up nearly as often. Take BJJ for example. 90% off BJJ for MMA is fundamental guard passing, submissions, and submission defense. The same is true of wrestling. A few months of wrestling is a world of difference over no training and can actually help Toney a lot. That being said, I agree that it won’t help enough to close the gap in experience.
Not liking this
I have my suspicions as to why Mo is doing this, and if my suspicions are correct……I’ll lose every bit of respect that I have for him.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Jun 8, 2010 9:27 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
With Toney and Mo, they’re only two (Jeezy and Jadakiss) shy of reuniting the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. This would undoubtedly lead to movies, which would take Mo and Toney out of the fight game for a while.
If you don't like the effect, don't produce the cause.
360Gamertag:Flipadelph1a
by Kneeeeee on Jun 8, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
ROFL! Well played, kneeeeeeeeee, well played.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jun 8, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Thank you, just trying to do my part for the environment.
If you don't like the effect, don't produce the cause.
360Gamertag:Flipadelph1a
by Kneeeeee on Jun 8, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
The new Ninja Turtles are gonna look very different... :S
by truck on Jun 8, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
What the crap is that thing?!?! Looks more like Tocar from the Secret of the Ooze knocked up a Vulture, than it does a TMNT.
If you don't like the effect, don't produce the cause.
360Gamertag:Flipadelph1a
by Kneeeeee on Jun 8, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
In real life
Turtles have beaks… I guess…
by truck on Jun 8, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
You kids today
The first version on TMNT was fairly dark, not the pizza-eating, surf-lingo spewing crap that appealed to 8 year olds. Looks like they are trying to take it back to the original style.
certified warlord
by kenpoboy67 on Jun 8, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
How can you infer that from a crappy costume?
If you don't like the effect, don't produce the cause.
360Gamertag:Flipadelph1a
by Kneeeeee on Jun 8, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
The costume is a lot more scary than the smiley ‘good guy’ looks of the original movies.
by pr0cs on Jun 8, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Yeah the original TMNT from Japan has like blood and nudity and curse words….
"Bottom line, wrestling is a martal art. If you can’t hang, go kickbox for K-1."
Pain don't hurt...
by RolloTomasi on Jun 8, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I hope that is fake or at least not the final design they’ll go with.
"If your going to come on then come on!" - Harold Howard
by Bandaka on Jun 8, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I don't mind it that much
It would def be a big change though
by truck on Jun 8, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Can't top this LMAO
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Jun 8, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I would rec this 1000 times.
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
by SSreporters on Jun 8, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Think I know what your talking about.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jun 8, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
its not that big of a deal. king mo doesn’t have a great reputation, so why would it be a big deal?
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
by MicahW on Jun 8, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
What’s wrong with King Mo?
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
- - - -
"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
- - - -
"I'm not afraid to say it: I'm not a brawler, and I'm not a coward. I'm not going to trade punch one-for-one with a guy. I'm going to hit the guy and not get hit. That's a smart way to fight." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Jun 8, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
what's not a big deal?
when did we start talking in riddles here?
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Monte Fisto on Jun 8, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
When people put their thumbs up their bums too far to type a simple response… shrug
I also don’t know what is goin on. I suspect people are making stuff up.
by truck on Jun 8, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I know exactly what you’re talking about, but I wouldn’t mind THAT much.
I'm a lover not a fighter
by spectaa on Jun 8, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Agreed, not a big deal IMO.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jun 8, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
add me to the list
of people saying “do explain.”
visit my website: http://bobthewriter.com
by bobthewriter on Jun 8, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
i, too, would like an explanation. you make it sound so devious and intriguing
by Stillberry on Jun 8, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Why so cryptic
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Monte Fisto on Jun 8, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Looks like I am in the list of...
Explain…
"50% of this sport is 90% mental" - Tim Sylvia
by Figs on Jun 8, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
i think Deo just made a calculated effort to get the record fgor most responses to a single comment
by Stillberry on Jun 8, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
It is possibly approaching the most greened responses to a single comment…
by truck on Jun 8, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
yeah, the only thing that comes close was the “i had sex with katie” thing last week
by Stillberry on Jun 8, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Correction
I also had sex with Katie
"50% of this sport is 90% mental" - Tim Sylvia
by Figs on Jun 8, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
We mad?
Cause he makin us wait
myspace.com/tbma <--- Give it a listen, let me know what you think.
Proud conductor of the Shane Carwin hype train.
Shane Carwin hits you and even if your payin the bill it doesn't matter. Your lights are gettin shut off.
by II SMASH II on Jun 8, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Deo, I’m actually intrigued. What do you suspect?
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
- - - -
"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
- - - -
"I'm not afraid to say it: I'm not a brawler, and I'm not a coward. I'm not going to trade punch one-for-one with a guy. I'm going to hit the guy and not get hit. That's a smart way to fight." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Jun 8, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Hes obviously making a gif to explain his thoughts
myspace.com/tbma <--- Give it a listen, let me know what you think.
Proud conductor of the Shane Carwin hype train.
Shane Carwin hits you and even if your payin the bill it doesn't matter. Your lights are gettin shut off.
by II SMASH II on Jun 8, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Dont keep us waiting
myspace.com/tbma <--- Give it a listen, let me know what you think.
Proud conductor of the Shane Carwin hype train.
Shane Carwin hits you and even if your payin the bill it doesn't matter. Your lights are gettin shut off.
by II SMASH II on Jun 8, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Holy crap 19 out of 22 comments in a row a green...
Does someone wanna help fill in the blanks?
by truck on Jun 8, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
So much green. Cripes.
Sorry, had interwebz problems. Basically, it seems like Mo has been extra “Pro Black” as of late, and this has a strong “We need to stick together to take down the man” vibe to it. Very Nation of Domination-esque. Hope this was worth the wait lol.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Jun 8, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Nah . . .
maybe, maybe not.
There’s a huge trade off for King Mo, Toney can teach Lawal some serious boxing techniques.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
- - - -
"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
- - - -
"I'm not afraid to say it: I'm not a brawler, and I'm not a coward. I'm not going to trade punch one-for-one with a guy. I'm going to hit the guy and not get hit. That's a smart way to fight." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Jun 8, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Either way. I can't wait for the the James Toney x King Mo trash talk vids.
EPIC
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Mo trains with everybody and anybody for the most part.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
- - - -
"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
- - - -
"I'm not afraid to say it: I'm not a brawler, and I'm not a coward. I'm not going to trade punch one-for-one with a guy. I'm going to hit the guy and not get hit. That's a smart way to fight." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Jun 8, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
This was worse than one of Dana White’s “HUGE ANNOUNCEMENTS”
by grein on Jun 8, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 12 recs
yet everybody was waiting by their keyboards thinking . . . WTF?!? will he respond?!?
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
- - - -
"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
- - - -
"I'm not afraid to say it: I'm not a brawler, and I'm not a coward. I'm not going to trade punch one-for-one with a guy. I'm going to hit the guy and not get hit. That's a smart way to fight." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Jun 8, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
in before anybody fails to detect your sarcasm
by Stillberry on Jun 8, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Americans aren't white
The same way some Americans are black…Some Brazilians are black
I’m not resting until I’m officially Anderson Silva status.- Jon "Bones" Jones
by AfroSamurai on Jun 8, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Love the Sig.
I sigh and shake my head every time I see “Brazilians are not Black.” It sounds weird. You killed it with your statement. The color obsession is weird but it is the legacy of western civilization.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
- - - -
"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
- - - -
"I'm not afraid to say it: I'm not a brawler, and I'm not a coward. I'm not going to trade punch one-for-one with a guy. I'm going to hit the guy and not get hit. That's a smart way to fight." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Jun 8, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
it seems like Mo has been extra "Pro Black" as of late
I disagree about him being “pro black”, but he is trying to get the black community involved in or atleast interested in MMA. I heard him being interviewed before UFC 114 and some caller said he should start an all black T.U.F and Mo quickly shot that idea down and said if you start alienating folks it does more harm than good.
"The fact that you constantly self censor yourself makes you like a flavored type of flavor"
by Dr. Doogie Seacrest on Jun 8, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Sorry
kinda new here ……block quote fail.
"The fact that you constantly self censor yourself makes you like a flavored type of flavor"
by Dr. Doogie Seacrest on Jun 8, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Not really a fail...
It worked too well! If you are gonna do it, do it it up big! That’s what I always say!!
Self confidence
RESTORED!!!!!
"The fact that you constantly self censor yourself makes you like a flavored type of flavor"
by Dr. Doogie Seacrest on Jun 8, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I kind of thought the same thing until I heard Mo on Junkie Radio last week
A caller asked him is he would want to do a TUF style show for African American Fighters on BET to help introduce more black fighters into the sport. Mo pretty much shot the guy down completely saying that he thought it was a horrible idea to exclude anyone. He may have just been blowing smoke but he seemed pretty genuine to me.
by Grey Suit on Jun 8, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
HA HA!!
I beat you by one min…
"The fact that you constantly self censor yourself makes you like a flavored type of flavor"
by Dr. Doogie Seacrest on Jun 8, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
However
I will Rec’ you for giving a better explanation than myself.
"The fact that you constantly self censor yourself makes you like a flavored type of flavor"
by Dr. Doogie Seacrest on Jun 8, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Rec for hunt and peck typing! Lololol!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jun 8, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL I never meant it to be some massive announcement
You guys blew a simple comment waaaaaay out of proportion and effective did this to yourselves.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Jun 8, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
You bastard, I was trying to read that.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jun 8, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I had a feeling it was about that.
I Just don’t get why it became about that all of a sudden… But then again, I don’t get a lot of the small stuff people get sensitive about when it comes to those types of issues.
by Anton Tabuena on Jun 8, 2010 11:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Just one of my pet peeves :)
Don’t feel like giving a huge explanation, because it’ll get ugly really quickly. So I’ll leave it at that.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
The SHERDOG RADIO NETWORK HAS A HUUUUUUUGE ANNOUNCEMENT!
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on Jun 8, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Get ugly quick... Like when a dog attacks your face...
by truck on Jun 8, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I had a feeling this is where you were going with it
which is fine with me, but it does look like you just opened Pandora’s $hit box.
"50% of this sport is 90% mental" - Tim Sylvia
Basically, it seems like Mo has been extra "Pro Black" as of late
How so?
His primary training partners are all white guys and Brazilians (Mayhem, Babalu, Werdum). His first foray into serving as a ‘hired gun’ training partner brought in to counter an elite wrestler was for another Brazilian (Alves).
How does training with Rashad and now Toney suddenly make him ‘pro black’?
My opinion stems from his (and Rashad's) comments about Rampage being an Uncle Tom and what not.
Just my opinion. You guys don’t need to like it or support it. I’ll leave it at that.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
GSP gets his haircut at an "urban" Barbershop
He doesn’t count.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Jun 8, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Very
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Jun 8, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Whoa, out of bounds. Keep the fam out of this.
You don’t bring personal family into life.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Atleast I know your full name now Deo Wade Bigsby
by DayGeaux on Jun 8, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
are you saying that mo is buddies with Jeremy Stephens?
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com and MMAFighting.com, mma enthusiast
I plead the
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Jun 8, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I could see it. And I don’t think Mo would even be serious about it. He is one of the best pro wresters working – and I mean both his fighting and the WWF type showmanship. I could see him coming up with a “Super Blackman” character to piss off the fans and generate ’hat".
I think it was smoogy who mentioned how he couldn’t wait to see King Mo bring real kayfabe (sic?) to mma.
I think his personality is very similar to that of Frank Mir
They do the same kind of very studied, logic based shit talking for the most part.
Mo and Mir are very lucid and generally back up their statements with something that is reasonable, particularly when they’re assessing the skills of another fighter.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
- - - -
"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
- - - -
"I'm not afraid to say it: I'm not a brawler, and I'm not a coward. I'm not going to trade punch one-for-one with a guy. I'm going to hit the guy and not get hit. That's a smart way to fight." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Jun 8, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m not one of these people all paranoid about WWF/MMA connections, but do we really want “real kayfabe” in MMA? no. maybe some higher quality trash talk would be nice, but I want to view these guys much like other real professional athletes. personality is good, even trumped up sorta fake animosity is OK, but “real kayfabe” means guys playing characters all the time, determined by the promotion whether or not they are one of the good or bad guys. It’s just a slippery slope that i don’t think needs to be tempted at.
I watch MMA because it’s real. I want it as reall as it gets. Even if the fights remain real, any concerted effort of playing characters is not real, and then fighters, fans and promoters, start getting scary ideas running through their heads
Please DON'T explain...it'll ruin the mystery
"To me, MMA is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography and the dancers hit each other."
by Buster Bluth on Jun 8, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If he goes in there looks too hesitant and weary of the takedown he’ll just get taken down. He should just bumrush Randy.
Food goes in here
If Toney “bumrushes” Randy he’ll get taken down right away. Toney needs to stay outside and pick Randy apart from distance……it wont happen, but that should be his strategy.
"Bottom line, wrestling is a martal art. If you can’t hang, go kickbox for K-1."
Pain don't hurt...
Like somone above said, if this at least gets Toney to stuff 1 or 2 takedowns, its gonna make this fight very interesting. Randy is old, doesnt take much to rock him.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
Randy isn’t that much older than Toney and more importantly Toney has been fighting professionally twice as long as Randy has. Who do you think is the most worn down physically due to involvement in combat sports? It’s going to take a lot more than two months of wrestling training to make any difference at all in this.
maybe it will, maybe it won't
None of us know how much Toney has been training or what type of combat training he has done in his life. Randy still has the big advantage in the clinch and wrestling departments but if Toney dots that chin a time or two it could all be over. Its not like boxer don’t fight off the clinch or use dirty tactics in a regular fight. I think as far as Cardio goes Toney doesn’t even have an entire round to finish this thing, which is why I think Randy will try to stall him out like Rashad did to Rampage.
by Johnnynumber5 on Jun 8, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
If Toney had been training other things besides boxing for the last 20 years I am sure someone would of said something by now, I can’t imagine that the guy has been secretly training other arts for years and hiding the truth from everyone. I think we can pretty much know what to expect from both guys going in to this fight.
I agree
But it’s amazing how little people know about Toney the boxer. The general misconception of him is amazing. The vast majority seem to have this “stereotype boxer” in mind when they think of Toney. They think he is Ray Mercer. I’m very surprised at how few people really know anything about him.
I should make a fanpost on it, but I’m not going to.
Toney can train wrestling every day.
He’s still not going to be able to stop Couture’s takedowns. A good sprawl, let alone full blown wrestling, is not something you can learn in a few months of training. If Toney is able to stuff a takedown or two, it’ll be because Couture lost a step.
It’s not like Randy goes for power doubles like Lesnar, though. It’ll be clinching (greco roman style like henderson) and getting the takedown off of that. Kind of like when Rashad pressed Rampage against the cage and then tried to transition to a takedown.
by Johnnynumber5 on Jun 8, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
He did a lot of freestyle wrestling in the past, and he certainly can blast doubles. It’s not how he normally fights, but the idea that he “won’t” do it against a boxer is a huge leap. In fact, I completely expect him to shoot a double.
by Michael Rome on Jun 8, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
unlikely if i remember that fight right smith used leg kicks to wear coleman down
tony is gonna have to ko randy quick
being pushed against the cage is gonna wear someone with minimal grappling experince down very fast
by Richard Doughty on Jun 8, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Might end up being better for Mo than Toney
If he can sharpen up his boxing a little bit, he could be even nastier at 205.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
Good thing Toney is starting to train wrestling for MMA
As Randy has been training boxing for MMA for quite some time now. I don’t see how this changes my opinion at all on what the outcome will be.
"50% of this sport is 90% mental" - Tim Sylvia
Randy’s boxing compared to . . .
- Brandon Vera’s striking
- Noguiera’s boxing
- Lesnar’s reach
OK.
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VEe is ANIMated!
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"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
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"I'm not afraid to say it: I'm not a brawler, and I'm not a coward. I'm not going to trade punch one-for-one with a guy. I'm going to hit the guy and not get hit. That's a smart way to fight." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Jun 8, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
The Antidote?
¿Quien?
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VEe is ANIMated!
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"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
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"I'm not afraid to say it: I'm not a brawler, and I'm not a coward. I'm not going to trade punch one-for-one with a guy. I'm going to hit the guy and not get hit. That's a smart way to fight." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Jun 8, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Mark Coleman = the antidote
It was a dumbass nickname that pro-Coleman trolls came up with on the UG right around the time of Rogan’s declaration of ‘The Machida era’, claiming that Coleman was ‘the antidote’ for Machida’s style.
Oh ok, there’ s a reason why I omitted Mark Coleman’s name from the list of fighters that Randy Couture recently faced.
I don’t think any one is afraid of Coleman’s striking.
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VEe is ANIMated!
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"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
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"I'm not afraid to say it: I'm not a brawler, and I'm not a coward. I'm not going to trade punch one-for-one with a guy. I'm going to hit the guy and not get hit. That's a smart way to fight." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Jun 8, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
lolwut? How can you not be afraid of this?
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Jun 8, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Keep laughing at his grunt when throwing the knee.
by grein on Jun 8, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I think prefer Strikeforce and Bellators abandoned warehouse look better than UFCs fabulous WWEish looking wall of lights. lol
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jun 8, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn he looks like a freaking joke. This is sad.
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VEe is ANIMated!
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"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
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"I'm not afraid to say it: I'm not a brawler, and I'm not a coward. I'm not going to trade punch one-for-one with a guy. I'm going to hit the guy and not get hit. That's a smart way to fight." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Jun 8, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I like how he almost smokes himself in the forehead throwing that knee.
"50% of this sport is 90% mental" - Tim Sylvia
I typically don’t engage in fighter bashing, I have alot of respect for what the fighters endure to be elite. That said, I will never respect Coleman after he threw that PRIDE fight in Japan years ago….. He brought shame to all American fighters.
"Bottom line, wrestling is a martal art. If you can’t hang, go kickbox for K-1."
Pain don't hurt...
Bullshit.
The line between MMA and pro wrestling was so damn blurry in 1990s Japan it was almost impossible to tell what was real and what was worked. Pancrase, Pride, & RINGS were all mixed work/shoot organizations at the time and worked fights were perfectly acceptable in that environment.
Coleman had a family to feed and a promoter who told him if he wanted to jump start his career he had to work a fight with their golden boy first. It ended up being the best decision of his career, because without that work versus Takada, he would have never had the opportunity to win the 2000 Pride GP.
Do explain....
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
by SSreporters on Jun 8, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd
Not because I care, but because I want “do explain” green thee times in the same thread.
by truck on Jun 8, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
visit my website: http://bobthewriter.com
by bobthewriter on Jun 8, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder what the response would be if James Toney simply stated,
“I’m not training no wrestling, no jitsu or any kind of grappling!”
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VEe is ANIMated!
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"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
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"I'm not afraid to say it: I'm not a brawler, and I'm not a coward. I'm not going to trade punch one-for-one with a guy. I'm going to hit the guy and not get hit. That's a smart way to fight." - GSP
Pretty sure that was Toney’s first response to all of this months ago when he was talking all the crazy crap about his father being a death fighter and such. Heck they signed him in March and Dana confirmed this fight in April but it took till June for James Toney to decide he better learn a bit of wrestling? Lets not get in to much of a rush to pat the guy on the back for finally deciding to take at least some aspect of the sport sort of seriously here.
There’s always the possibility that he was training wrestling prior to this announcement.
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VEe is ANIMated!
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"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
- - - -
"I'm not afraid to say it: I'm not a brawler, and I'm not a coward. I'm not going to trade punch one-for-one with a guy. I'm going to hit the guy and not get hit. That's a smart way to fight." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Jun 8, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep. Hell he could of been secretly training for MMA behind the scenes for years but just not telling anyone about it for all we know. Of course we just have to go on the information that is presented to us for these discussions and what has been presented is months of the guy putting down the sport and the training required and then a couple of months out actually going off to try and learn some wrestling.
although im sure this will help
i dont see 2 months being enough to use what you learn correctly
i dont wrestle but i do bjj and dudes who have been training for 2 months , might have a couple moves but they dont understand how to propely make them happen or how to use them to stop me from doing what i want to do (and im pretty crappy)
by Richard Doughty on Jun 8, 2010 11:08 AM EDT reply actions
basic wrestling shouldn’t be that hard to learn, but maybe that’s because i’ve never had to learn it as an adult, i started young. basic TD’s and takedown defense seemingly shouldn’t that hard, and it’s mindboggling to me how little the people in my BJJ classes care about being able to perform and stop takedowns. i guess, as a longtime wrestler, and former football player, i just don’t understand how people have so much trouble figuring out how to tackle people and prevent getting tackled
well if you get hit in the face then are trying to get your whereabouts and stop a tdown its not so easy.
Toney’s use of the shoulder-roll style is something that gets overstated on here. It was his primary defensive style, but it’s not like the shoulder-roll was the only thing he ever used in boxing matches. The dude knows how to implement more than one basic style of boxing
The shoulder-roll style doesn’t translate well to MMA anyway. Atleast that’s what Freddy Roach said. That style will leave you open for head kicks…although I haven’t seen Randy throw too many of those
my point is that while Toney’s most effective style in boxing is the shoulder-roll, he’s still better at other boxing styles than damn near every MMA fighter. he can work on scrapping the traditional shoulder-roll in lieu of a different strategy, and still has good punching technique and timing. i don’t think Toney’s main issue will be adapting his striking style to MMA, i don’t think it will be sprawling off foubles and singles, i think it will be his ability to no get suplexed in the clinch
2 months, 3 months or 1 month of wrestling
. . . training is always better than ZERO months of wrestling training but neither will ever compare to 20+ years of wrestling.
That’s a given.
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VEe is ANIMated!
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"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
- - - -
"I'm not afraid to say it: I'm not a brawler, and I'm not a coward. I'm not going to trade punch one-for-one with a guy. I'm going to hit the guy and not get hit. That's a smart way to fight." - GSP
The thing is, Toney’s bobbing and weaving style isn’t really good for MMA, it leaves you susceptible to the knee into the face (although Couture doesn’t really throw knees too often). It needs to be combined with wrestling so that the bobbing and weaving leads to the take down. Mo should be able to help him with that. Now he just needs some BJJ lessons.
"If your going to come on then come on!" - Harold Howard
He just needs to learn how to avoid submissions between now and fight night.
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VEe is ANIMated!
- - - -
"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
- - - -
"I'm not afraid to say it: I'm not a brawler, and I'm not a coward. I'm not going to trade punch one-for-one with a guy. I'm going to hit the guy and not get hit. That's a smart way to fight." - GSP
by VeeisAnimated on Jun 8, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I know it doesn’t make much a difference when teaching Toney, but Mo is a freestyle wrestler, Randy is more greco. Of course I bet Mo is teaching him both aspects.
I thought about that too
Until I realized that Randy has been training catch as of late so freestyle takedowns are going to become part of his game
"Alas, there is no time-share on my balls." -Luke Thomas
Huh?
I don’t know what you’re talking about…
Do explain…
"The true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and to teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things." - Miyamoto Musashi
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jun 8, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
when I see your avatar in tiny form on my computer you look like a nerdy chick. no homo.
by Johnnynumber5 on Jun 8, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes yes, been over this before. I chopped all my hair off. Gotta come up with something new though. lol
"The true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and to teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things." - Miyamoto Musashi
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jun 8, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
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