Scott Coker tells MMAJunkie he will not get into a bidding war for Jake Shields:
"To me, there's going to be a value that we feel is fair, and that's going to be it," Coker said. "I don't think it's good business to go into [the bidding] business."
"If it works out (with Shields), great," Coker said. "If not, Strikeforce has a bunch of great middleweights, and we'll go into the tournament business. We're still fleshing out the details, but we're leaning toward that."
almost 2 years ago
Nick Thomas
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The old Moneyball approach lol
Not overpaying for guys who are overvalued by the market.
Let’s see how it works out for them.
This is actually a role reversal for Coker.
He overpaid for both Fedor and Hendo, now that Hendo got beat, and Fedor is Fedor. Coker doesnt want to over pay Jake. The irony is funny, Hendo was gonna run rough shot thru the MW and LHW divisions on his way to a championship. Fedor was gonna put Strikeforce on the map, become direct competetion to the UFC. Well, maybe Coker has learned from his past mistakes. I dont feel like Strikeforce should try to make a play for the top end talent, I believe there is enough room in MMA for Strikeforce to use up and coming fighters or fighters just past their UFC primes. This would still be a profitable company, just not in comparisons to UFC.
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
by whardiek on Jun 5, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He totally lit some TNT with a match and destroyed that new toy...
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate...
coker’s a smart man…. why get in a bidding war for a good fighter yes but he has little to no fan appeal…
No Fan Appeal..... YET!
Strikeforce dropped the ball on Marketing Shields. All this means is that Dana White wins and We should expect to see Shields in the UFC
A fighter like Shields will never have casual fan appeal never.
by Shocbomb on Jun 4, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
GSP and Shields aren’t really all that similar. Jake is a pillow puncher with outstanding grappling, but if he can’t get a submission he’s just switching dominant positions without being able to do any damage. GSP will light a muther sucker up if he actually tries to.
Training BE since January 2010
You’re forgetting the most important points-GSP is handsome and has a funny accent.
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by sadface on Jun 5, 2010 12:51 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yea cokers a genius for letting his champ shit on his new "big name/legit challenge" and then letting him leave
Cokers already lost and he knows it.
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by II SMASH II on Jun 4, 2010 9:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I have to disagree.
I was a non fan of Jake before the Hendo fight, I was a hater, a guy complaining about how boring Jakes style was. I admit it, I ate a shit sandwich when Hendo got beat. I am now, firmly seated on the Jake Shields bandwagon. The technical display of wrestling and Jits he performed against Hendo was great, exciting and entertaining. If Strikeforce is going to over pay any of their fighters, Jake should be the one. But, Coker overpaid Hendo, how has that worked so far? Coker overpaid for Fedor not only in money, but control. How has that really helped Strikeforce? I understand your point, but, this philosophy is an about face for Coker.
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
dana white made gsp a star. the most boring champ ever. he can make jake a star too.
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by ekc on Jun 5, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s pretty much admitting at this point that he won’t be able to afford him. That’s fair. This should surprise nobody.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
So he could get in a bidding war and possibly end up with more money. Now that he’s made it pretty much known he’s going to UFC, Coker isn’t even fucking with it. If he kind of left it seemingly undecided, I’m sure Coker would have bidded to keep him.
according to internet detectives, this type of situation worked out just swimmingly for Hendo, so I don’t see why this would be any different.
I’m still trying to figure that out. According to all the many BE members, either:
- Dana let Strikeforce sign Hendo for more than they can afford. or
- Dana didn’t let Hendo get him into a bidding war and pushed him out the door, where he signed for less than what he was being offered.
I don’t know how it works out, but it is apparently both.
by John Nash on Jun 4, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’d rather see a tournie than another Shield title fight, so I’m gonna go with sign with the UFC Shields. Gives MMA fans two things to look forward to.
Where are all of these "great middleweights" for the tournament coming from?
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate...
I am surprised an mma fan wouldn't know that they have
.Melvin Manhoef, Robbie Lawler, Dan Henderson. Tim Kennedy, Joey Villasenor, Jason Miller, Luke Rockhold, Trevar Prangley, Karl Ammoussou, Matt Lindland, , and rumored to be in talks with Jorge Santiago and Mamed Khalidov.
And if we want everyone you can add journeymen Scott Smith, Benji Raddach, Cung Le, and Frank Shamrock.
by John Nash on Jun 5, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
nottheface – THANK YOU. If MMA don’t think that SF has a pretty nice MW devision they really don’t know MMA to well now ? I really really like Cookers idea of a MW tournament for the belt if and when shields leaves. My money is on Jacare
ummm, ok.
that is a sad tournament, (aside from Manhoef). Good luck with that though SF.
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate...
OK. Help Coker out.
Put together a better list of fighters that Coker can work with. I think he has easily assembled the best talent at 185 outside of the UFC, But if there are 185s that he is neglecting to use that are available, please let us know.
u mad...
maybe that list of b and c level fighters in a tournament excites YOU. It just makes me sad for them.
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate...
Nah that's a good tournament by any measure.
It will certainly be the best middleweight tournament we’ve seen since the collapse of Pride.
Of course, it’s not going to be UFC caliber, but I’d sure as hell like to watch it.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
That list just kills me being as Jake Shields shouldn’t of been on top of it to start with, all those guys and they had a welterweight fighter on top of their middleweight division.
In their defense they didn’t have half those guys last year. But still, I don’t know why Coker would have scheduled a fighter who with only 2-fights left in his contract and no extension clause to a title fight. The only reasoning I can think of is that they promised Shields a title shot if he beat Lawler when he agreed not to contest Strikeforce picking up his Elite contract. Otherwise why not book Jacare/Miller as your title fight?
hes doing the ufc a favor, hes pretty much saying “i’m not going ot offer alot so ufc can get him cheaper, suck it Jake sheilds”
I love the tourney idea too. Mousasi vs jacare 2!
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by Thats It For you! on Jun 4, 2010 9:00 PM EDT reply actions
hes doing the ufc a favor, hes pretty much saying "i’m not going ot offer alot so ufc can get him cheaper, suck it Jake sheilds"
Good point. If Jake doesn’t get the Brock Lesnar money he is expecting it may make Nick and Gilbert think twice about their dreams of going to the UFC. Thats actually pretty smart.
It doesn’t matter… the kill order is already in effect. At a minimum Shitfarce will have to pay more than twice as much for every fighter that completes his contract with a winning record.
So what you’re saying is that Strikeforce is going to be forced to compete for their fighters, thus driving up pay? Isn’t it great how that works out?
The difference is Hendo was just another fighter. Shields is the best p4p fighter and best fighter shitfarce has at 170 and 185. Regardless of his marketability… How can you be relevant or anything more than a shit league when you give up your best fighter. You think Zuffa would ever give up Anderson Silva?
Truth is fans don’t give a shit about top fighters, if they did the last CBS card and the Heavy Artillery card would have done gangbusters. Most fans want real life pro wrestling storylines. Strikeforce would be better off putting together a card of Kurt Angle vs Dan Puder, Kimbo Slice vs Bobby Lashley, and Shamrock vs Shamrock. Hell, even in the UFC Siva vs Hendo, one of the best fights ever booked, bombed.
The secret to success is don’t do anything that I want to see.
Those will get eyeballs today but are meaningless in building a real business. Zuffa has walked the perfect line to where it just sold 500k plus buys with 2 brazilians who do not speak english.
Freak shows are short term gain long term pain thinking… unless you have a real product behind the trojan horse it’s usless. Jake Shields is a real product.
by mmalogic on Jun 4, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You’re right, but eyeballs are needed to build a business, and right now no one cares about mma outside of the UFC, and even then I would argue a large percentage of us fans don’t even care about that. For many a UFC event is an excuse to socialize and if someone else can figure a way to peel off these casuals even the UFC may see a dip in its North American numbers.
The point I was kind of getting at is that almost all of Zuffa’s gain have been in some way tied to the WWE. If Strikeforce or Bellator (who is screwed with the tournament format – my favorite format for mma) wants to have any chance at carving a niche, hitching their wagon to the WWE is the only way.
As for Jake Shields, his pedigree as a great fighter is only important if he fights in the UFC, otherwise he’d be better off being exciting or having some personality. Outside the UFC he is another good but boring grappler, inside he is potential competitor for GSP.
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy who says Shitfarce.
by ZapRowsdower on Jun 4, 2010 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
HEY FARVA
What’s that farce you love? With all the goofy shit all over the walls?
by Electro Boy on Jun 4, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You mean Shitfarce?
You’re talking about Shitfarce, right?
by ZapRowsdower on Jun 4, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hey Farva
Whats that tired played out name you and Dana um I mean mmalogic call Strikeforce?
Root for the home team jack ass
I would put him at #3 behind Fedor and Diaz
but you’re right – he’s one of their top p4p fighters.
Trouble is: he’s also one of their most boring fighters. However, as a fan, I think Shields will be much more exciting in the UFC, as he’ll be really challenged by the fighters in the MW division. The top of the MW division has much better TD defense or grappling, which will hopefully result in exciting and technical fights. In Strikeforce, he’s boring as hell against fighters with little takedown defense and no ground game. Jacare is the only Strikeforce MW that I would be interested in seeing fight Jacare.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
yup, but was very successful at 185, and i think Strikeforce has more to offer at 185 for mousasi than 205.
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by Thats It For you! on Jun 5, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
He has said he cannot make 185 anymore
It makes him feel weak and he said his cardio gets bad.
I don’t buy that though.
He was never a gigantic 185 pounder, and he looks smallish at 205. I just think he doesn’t know how to cut properly. He needs to bring in some high level wrestling coaches into his camp and have them walk him through how to cut weight without killing himself in the process.
But he has been weight training steady for almost 2 years
With the intent to move up to HW. So something has to give if that is his intent.
honestly, how can this surprise anyone? Should he really come out and say “Shit yeah! I’ll pay that guy whatever he wants, hand him a blank check!” He’s establishing a low starting point for negotiations… He obviously has a point he wont go over, but its not like he’s going to throw a lowball number out and if Jake doesn’t take it, then walk away because he doesn’t want a “bidding war” out of principle.
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
What's that principle?
That the other guy has more money, more clout and more opportunities so why bother?
its pretty basic negotiation strategy… if he thinks Shields is worth paying $100k per show, he’s not going to show up to the first meeting with 100k on the table, then leave if its turned down. He’ll keep bargaining up to his cutoff point, anything said publicly before that is just posturing.
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
Sounds like hes resigned himself to losing Shields to the UFC...
That said, I think he’s right – a bidding war artificially inflates value and does more long term harm in exchange for the short term gain.
Why should SF pay massive amounts of money for a fighter that draws no eyeballs to the promotion?
Doesn’t make much sense business wise.
by KOQ24 on Jun 4, 2010 9:44 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I can't fault Coker for this.
Shields is a top fighter, but he’s no draw. It’s possible that he hasn’t been marketed to his full potential, but I just don’t think he’s of much value without big names to fight. He needs guys like GSP, Kos or whomever else the UFC decides can lend name value to Shields, because his personality and fighting style aren’t going to induce most fans to care. The only person that I can think of that I’d like to see Shields fight in SF is Jacare.
by Cannon Jacques on Jun 4, 2010 9:50 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
that's a lot of business to be getting into, Scott
and half of all businesses fail within a year, which has the odds stacked against you from the start.
by cagefightonacid on Jun 4, 2010 10:13 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
they were doing fine before they signed Fedor, since then SF has been losing money even with shows on CBS,..just go be a good regional show and produce good fighters, just leave the big business to the UFC..
Lets see, the four Strikeforce cards where numbers where available averaged $600,000 in gate and $500,000 in payout, In addition Strikeforce receives a $700,000 license fee from Showtime and a $1.2 million license fee from CBS. Furthermore they get $300,000 per Challengers card, while averaging $100,000 at the gate and only paying out $100,000 in purses. And to top it off 1/3 of all their events take place at the HP Pavilion in San Jose, an arena that owns 50% of Strikeforce.
And even after all this info, we are to assume they are on their way out. I assume that Strikeforce announcing three more cards over the summer and Showtime declaring their interest in continuing mma is a rouse? Let us not confuse a failure to be as successful as the UFC as actually failing.
by John Nash on Jun 5, 2010 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
haha
i was just playing with his word choice, it was a joke… not a jab at strikeforces ability to survive.
by cagefightonacid on Jun 5, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
i was playing with his choice of using the word 'business' in every third word.
obviously nobody got the joke…. mustve been pretty bad but i still think it’s pretty funny.
by cagefightonacid on Jun 5, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Via Robert Joyner. They also don’t have the benefit of a TV deal on par with what Strikeforce has with Showtime.. Strikeforce receives $700,000 (might actually escalate to $900,000) for each Showtime card and $300,000 for each Challenger, and have almost two years left on their deal, so they have a little more security than Bellator, whose TV deal is a fraction of that.
Seems a bit harsh
They’ve been around for two years and his concerns seem to be based entirely on the gate. He only references a couple shows. I remember Lotfi Sariahmed of Sherdog saying that the show in Kansas City did much better. They are still establishing themselves and in some places they are better established then others. Their ratings have been decent enough for HBO to reportedly be interested.
Bellator is on a network that tens of millions of casual sports fans get. It might not be as lucrative but its gives them a weekly chance at exposure where Strikeforce only has the limited reach of Showtime and the occasional (if that) CBS card. I’m not saying they are going to be an overnight success but given time Bellator it might be a shining example of a successful non-Zuffa promotion.
I love, love, love Bellator. Which is probably part of the reason they’ll fail, because I’ve learned that what Im a great gauge for what won’t work with audiences. And that is anything I really like. The tourney format is the best system concievable and it isn’t what the masses want. They want prowrestling storylines.
Currently Bellator appeals only to the hardest hardcores – and that’s if they can find when it’s playing. Small shows with small gates, and a tiny tv deal won’t keep you afloat. I am starting to think that Rebney’s plan is to sign a bunch of up-and-comers to long tern contracts and then sell the promotion – fighters and all – to the highest bidder.
by John Nash on Jun 5, 2010 4:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Worked for the UFC didn't it?
but anyways….I also love Bellator and I think the tournaments are perfect for what they are trying to do. Most of these fighters are unknowns and the tourny builds them up and creates storylines naturally. The Askren/Thomas thing seemed right out of the WWE. I know it was a twist of fate, but still. Its a format that is very appealing to a general sports fan.
And as for your gauge, don’t be so hard on yourself dude. Even a broken clock can be right twice a day.
This is a no brainer, you don’t get into a bidding war against a company you can’t win a bid against anyway. If the UFC wants the guy bad enough they will just take him and Coker knows this. Yea they did outbid for Hendo but if the UFC had really wanted to keep him they could of put the money and the options on the table and kept him. Shields has been talking about going to the UFC for quite a while now and hasn’t really been all that big of a draw anyways so why fight that fight or overbid for a guy if you don’t have to? The only really bad thing for Strikeforce here is that a belt is walking out of the company but then at this point just how much is linear belt continuity worth in Strikeforce?
You can get into a bidding war with a more powerful competitor...
however you have to have a long term plan and be a smarter businessman than Coker has shown the capacity to be.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
Oh
Snap
=|
I find your argument invalid.
by timetosaygoodbye on Jun 5, 2010 6:31 AM EDT up reply actions
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