UFC 116 Preview: Bloody Elbow Judo Chop: The Techniques of Brock Lesnar
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 30, 2010 5:30 PM EDT
in MMA Technique
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With Brock Lesnar making one of his rare Octagon appearances this weekend, I thought I'd recap the two Judo Chops I've done featuring his work:
I also wanted to highlight a most excellent FanPost by BloodyElbow reader BlackLesnar Break It Down: Brock Lesnar. This is one of the best and most in-depth dissection's of a fighter's strengths and weaknesses I've ever read.
While both Carwin and Lesnar come into MMA from a wrestling background, there are different styles of applying the wrestling base to MMA. Jonathan Snowden broke down some of the history of how those differing approaches to MMA evolved yesterday.
As Lesnar himself recognizes, he's a Ground and Pound fighter. This is a wrestler who relies on getting the take down and once on the ground, using strikes to finish his opponent. Mark Coleman was the first to really emply that style, although Dan Severn had hinted at it when he adopted knees and elbows on the ground at UFC 5.
Shane Carwin is more of a Randy Couture style Dirty Boxer. This is a wrestler who likes to get his opponent in the clinch standing and batter them while controlling the head with a collar tie. It will be interesting to see how their styles collide on Saturday. BlackLesnar has also analyzed Shane Carwin in the FanPosts, I couldn't recommend it more highly
There are some excerpts and a couple of gifs in the full entry. 
From The Punching Power of Brock Lesnar
Here's BloodyElbow's own Brent Brookhouse analyzing the orbital bone shattering right hand that Brock Lesnar landed on Heath Herring:
The first thing that jumps out to me is the simple technique. When you're Lesnar's size you don't need to throw big winging punches, you just need to throw with technique and land and damage will be done. He generates the bulk of his power from his legs, in MMA you can get away with lunging a little bit more than straight boxing. Brock pushes off his right leg and shoots the right straight from the shoulder to Heath's chin with no wasted arm motion.
Defensively he also keeps his shoulder high on the punching side which blocks any sort of counter left hook. His left hand goes a little low but his size and the angle of his body makes a return right from Herring a low percentage response.
Also he circles away from Herring's "power side" by circling away after he throws. And if you watch his feet during the entire gif he is up on the balls of his feet the entire time, he's much less of a "flat footed" striker than some try to portray him as. Honestly it's scary to see how far along his striking is coming because technique plus raw power is a crazy combination.
It's different from other wrestlers like Koscheck who strike but don't have the pop or abandon simple technique. With Brock it's turning into a "I don't want to stand with him, I'm probably not going to be able to take him down, and I sure as hell don't want to be under him....what the hell do I do now?"
From Brock Lesnar's One-Armed Full Nelson:
Instead of trying either of those options, Lesnar releases Mir's wrist and snakes his left arm behind Mir's head and in front of Mir's left shoulder: Voila, what we see on the left is the One-armed Full Nelson. His prodigious reach allows Lesnar to wind his left arm all the way around to grasp Mir's left bicep. At this point Mir can attempt to block punches with his left hand, but only his forearm is free. As we can see, that's not enough to stop Lesnar's powerful right hand.Note the time on the clock, 2:51 left in the first round. Lesnar would maintain the hold and continue the batter for the better part of the next two minutes. That is an eternity to be semi-helpless and absorbing punishment from an opponent as powerful as Lesnar.
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It’d be fun to see Brock play in Werdum’s guard
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
He wouldn’t play in Werdum’s guard. Remember the second Mir fight when he took him down one time and landed in Frank’s guard and then bounced right back up to his feet? It looks like he trains to end up in half guard or side control on his takedowns.
Werdum caught Fedor in the scrambles, not from closed guard. Fedor was a ref stand up away from winning that fight after he escoed the initial arm bar.
I'm not so sure Werdum could handle Lesnar in the guard
I think he’s too thick to be caught in a triangle, for example.
I dunno. There’s a youtube video of a couple Gracies breaking down the triangle choke on Fedor, and at one point, they indicate that due to Fedor’s size, it gives him less space to manuever or breathe once in the triangle. I think a guy like Werdum, who has pretty long limbs, can get Brock in a triangle. He might get slammed right after, but he could still get him I think.
In the Gracie vid
they show how Werdum could’ve easily avoided a slam had it happened. If Brock was wrapped in a Werdum triangle choke, I think he’d have a real tough time getting out of it.
never said he would, I said I'd like to see it
I wasn’t talking about the Fedor fight. Werdum has the best guard at HW, IMO, so I’d like to see what Brock can do with it.
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 30, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
He relies on basic wrestling position
Never be parallel when on top – it’s a roll waiting to happen. He’s been told since he was 6 – get perpendicular! Make a T!
He’s adapted it to BJJ defense – side guard is analogous to being perpendicular as a wrestler, and that’s a position from which he’s quite comfortable and had lots of practice.
"If you go up there clueless, you're going to come back [to the dugout] clueless. It's that simple." - Nick Markakis
werdum would die, i see brock doing a rampage if werdum locked a triangle, i think the octagon would cave in if that happed
It's pretty simple
to avoid getting slammed in a Triangle if you know what you’re doing. You simply grab the ankle of the fighter lifting you up and he is no longer able to lift you up and slam you.
hook the leg, grab the ankle
whatever, you knew what I was saying.
And me being able to grab Brock’s leg has nothing to do with Fabricio Werdum doing it. I was just pointing out there’s a technique that can prevent the slams, and somebody with a BJJ background like Werdum’s should be able to pull it off pretty easily.
You’re lame. Go nitpick someone else’s posts.
You say it's simple...
… but then you get the technique wrong. There is a big difference between “grabbing an ankle” and “hooking the leg”.
Cool
What does this have to do with the discussion of Werdum VS. Lesnar?
……..Oh, it has nothing to do with it? So why are you jumping in the conversation like what you have said has any relevance?
Yeah I think this would be an interesting fight.
Provided that Brock doesn’t insta-smash Werdum with hammerfists (which is a big provision), I think it would be really interesting to watch a top heavyweight wrestler fight a top heavyweight BJJ practitioner.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
Lesnar
would probably keep it on the feet and kill Werdum standing.
In the clinch though I’d be intrigued to see if Werdum could knee Lesnar in the face. I think Brock would shrug off any attempt to get the Thai plum on him but I don’t know.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
If that's the case..
..then I think it would become a fight I wasn’t interested in very quickly. Lesnar’s striking is powerful but second rate technically, and Werdum’s Muy Thai plum is similarly unimpressive. I’d much rather see them both grappling, than striking.
That said, Mir was able to hit Lesnar with a couple of good knees, and his clinch game seems mediocre (although I might be wrong), so maybe Werdum would have a chance there. However, I think if Brock actually ate a damaging knee, he would still have the wherewithal and muscle memory to take Werdum down.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
but if he takes Werdum down
he’s in a grappling fight wiith a bjj world champion.
You’re right that sometimes MMA fights end up avoiding the strengths of the participants or devolving into the least interesting of possibilities. But these guys are trying to win so you can’t blame them necessarily.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
You're right on both counts.
I was unclear in what I was saying:
a) I wouldn’t find the fight as interesting to watch (but I would absolutely understand the strategy behind keeping the fight standing); and
b) I think 8/10 times Lesnar is really dazed by Werdum’s knee in the Thai plum, that he reacts instinctively by taking him down. If Lesnar ends up in dazed AND in Werdum’s guard, that’s a big mistake. However, if he is able to buy a few seconds to recover without staying on the ground with Werdum, then that beats eating knees in the Thai plum I think (?).
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
yeah
I actually like Werdum’s chances against either Carwin or Lesnar. I’d pick against him but consider betting on him if the odds got out of hand.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 30, 2010 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
While i’ve jumped on the Werdum bandwagon as well, picking him against either guy when they both brutalized a better version of him in Mir would be a big stretch.
"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/
by Nightwhistler on Jun 30, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Mir better than Werdum?
methinks you’re quite a bit off. Werdum is about, oh, 20 steps beyond Mir as a grappler and he’s gritty and tough as shit.
The two guys who beat Werdum in the UFC — JDS and Arlovski would both be very very bad matches for Mir as well. Very bad.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 30, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
All I can think is how did Heth not see that one coming?
Ubereem is here to kill the Finkelstein monster!
right? the jab wasn’t in his face… maybe that’s it, he didn’t expect the right to touch him so he ignored it… until it cracked his face
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 30, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Herring is a black belt in striking
He doesn’t dodge punches anymore, he just let’s them hit him. He got his belt from Pellegrino in just over 6 months which is unheard of
we're seeking articulate and thoughtful you are neither.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jun 15, 2010 3:47 PM CDT
Kid Hate layin it down
by II SMASH II on Jun 30, 2010 5:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
i lol’d @ “black belt in striking”
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 30, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he underestimated Lesnar's reach.
Thos go-go-gadget arms are a hell of a thing. He’s build like Sherk with the arms of Jon Jones.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 30, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Gonzaga?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
He's not lying on the mat staring at the rafters
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 30, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
full speed it was coming pretty damn fast. It was also decieving how quickly he closed the distance to throw that punch.
^this
is right on point. When Lesnar throws the feint jab, he’s well out of punching range. He closes that distance more quickly than any 280 lb heavyweight has the right to. Mir dealt with the same miscalculation of distance in their first fight as well. Also, notice where Lesnar’s hand is coming from. He doesn’t cock his right hand back before he lets it go. It approaches Herring in an almost perfect line (great technique), and Herring doesn’t even attempt to cover up. Moreover, watch how Lesnar drops his weight and pivots off of his back foot. Just as power is created from the hips and back foot, range is created by Lesnar’s lowering body. I haven’t watched these clips in a while, and I’m not a huge Lesnar fan, but that right hand is extremely impressive for such a green fighter.
"The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world..."
Not entirely true.
If you watch from the beginning he throws the right hand from his hip. Sure, it ends up straight from the shoulder but it starts way lower.
by gavingavinkindgavin on Jun 30, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jun 30, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Shattering someones face > KO
Lesnar would have knocked Herring out if it had been 3 inches lower and 2 inches to the right… I would say both guys have incredible power, Carwin might have better accuracy though.
"It’s going to be like sex with a grizzly bear, you know, a lot of scratching and growling on both sides." - Don Frye
RIP Sherdog (6/26/10)
Just an FYI – this is how Lesnar trained with Comprido to deal with Frank Mir at UFC 100. Shows he has a pretty smart team around him.
by MMABookworm on Jun 30, 2010 5:24 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Meh...
I do one armed nelsons in my sleep!
Lemonade was a popular drink, and it still is. I get more stunts and props than Bruce Willis- Guru
I do too..
To my wife if she doesn’t break me off a piece..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
Put Frank Mir in a One-Armed Nelson
POUND AWAAY
POUND AWAAY
by Polyhedron on Jun 30, 2010 5:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Awesome breakdown, and the comments make it even better. It would be nice for those comments about Brock’s punching to make it into the article somehow.
by Polyhedron on Jun 30, 2010 5:50 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Patience my friend
That article is tomorrow.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jun 30, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
The athleticism of Lesnar
This is where I see the fight shift.
Lesnar’s athleticism combined with freakish power puts Carwin who is simply “grapple and punch” at a disadvantage that he has bot experienced in previous fights.
While i don’t think Carwin is a slouch by any measure of the word “fighter”, I think that if Lesnar has the same power and confidence that he displayed in the Mir fight— it will be a tough fight for Carwin to win.
Semper Fi
Thanks for the LOVE
And as a fan of the last Judo Chop, I am off to read those to compare notes.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jun 30, 2010 6:24 PM EDT reply actions
don't stop there
we’ve got a couple of years worth to enjoy. Judo Chops
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I just bookmarked that link.
Nate you are a god for doing this stuff. Seriously, Bloody Elbow is so entertaining and all encompassing that I can’t even enjoy any other MMA website outside of Middle Easy.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
thanks man
not quite ready to be deified but thanks for the kind words.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Lesnar is the heavyweight GSP.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
I think Lesnar’s gonna show this weekend that he’s got GSP’s level of top control. People point to his size and weight too quickly to realize he does a LOT of small, technical things very well.
The way people shrug off him turning Mir into a pretzel and pounding his face in is mind numbing…Mir is a BJJ player, and a very good one. To simply control his wrists as Brock did, and use his size and weight to pin him in the right places…that takes serious training and skill.
From all reports she (Cyborg) pretty much only spars men, and has been known to put some out during training. - Rudinho479
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jun 30, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Imagine if Brock had started MMA at 23? He would be what Fedor was until days ago.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
Nah
Brock would not fight chumps like Zulu or HMC.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jun 30, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
He was supposed to fight HMC
at a K-1 event before signing with the UFC. I know you were joking, but still.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
HMC Pro debut: acceptable
HMC when you’re 29-1-(1): bullshit.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
by Ubernoober on Jun 30, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If Brock was in mma and fought during the Pride days what makes you think they wouldn’t try to set up some freak show fights? Brock would fight anyone if the money was right.
Not before he had pounded every single other credible opponent into a puddle.
Brock wants competition, not paycheques. If he wanted a paycheque, he would still be in the WWE.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
I don't see a way Mir could have broken that 1-arm Nelson
Mir’s left arm is barely long enough to cover his face let alone reach Lesnar’s wrist and even if he did, how does he then get the wrist around his own head?
Mir’s right arm can grasp Lesnar’s wrist much more easily, but then hes got to pull it away from his head at an awkward angle that doesn’t utilize core arm strength. Brock can easily counter by using core arm strength and tightening his bicep.
Really the only way I see Mir being able to do anything is having a hell of a lot more active guard. No room for elbows or punches from the bottom. He had to go offensive rather than defensive but the weight and hip control of Lesnar is heavy and great.
Actually, the one way I see him getting out of this is if he locked his own hands together between his face and Brock’s neck, then used both his arms to push brocks neck/head away from him and possibly use that space to then do….something. Of course he’d have to be stronger than brock and i doubt he is.
Mir had his Mir's hips flat
he had no leverage to do jack. But he did eventually get out of the hold.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
One way is to give up half guard and move to side control.
Then escape from there. That half nelson would then mean he would have to immediately escape an armbar attempt but Brock was not likely to have that skill.
Most BJJ guys don’t like to give up guard but sometimes you have to – kind of like moving to North South to escape a kimura grip.
This is assuming Brock doesn't move to some other super position from there.
I definitely don’t want to try it.
Brock didn't look like he was interested in passing
I feel like he would have stayed in half guard whether the pass was there or not.
yes
that was a deliberate strategy for him. 1/2 guard is a much more comfortable position for most wrestlers than mount.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 30, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
What kills me about these great technique analysis articles...
…is that there are so few comments.
Seriously, there are more comments complaining about Kid Nate’s alleged anti-UFC bias in his business posts, than there are comments here discussing a great collection of analysis and resources ABOUT THE ACTUAL FIGHTING ITSELF. These and the Judo Chops are one of the best MMA article series on the web, but they seem to get very little attention.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
by Sabate on Jun 30, 2010 9:15 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Not much to say.
they wrote it better than I could, better pictures than I could. Its hard to have an opinion on something that I take as fact.
ah that's cool
yeah, I guess this is the part of the site where people listen and learn.
my analysis of the business stuff is so bad that people used to ignore it too, then i discovered the knack of being aggressively bad and pissing people off.
lol
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 30, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol
yeah that used to bother me. I just look at the UFC business posts as a way to keep the dumbasses howling (and reading the site) while we have good discussions of mma history and technique elsewhere.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 30, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Werdum could beat lesnar, of course it depends. Werdum is 1000 lightyears better on the ground than Frank Mir, he could catch anybody on any singel given night, including lesnar. If Lesnar started to grapple with the grappler, then he would be in a lot of trouble, I think it is really hard to controll a multiple abu dhabi champion on the ground, it’s one thing to controll a simple black belt, but to controll werdum is different.
Hmmm … when someone tries to sell you BROCKLESNAR!!! as a technical striker you know it’s time to drink a second morning coffee and pinch yourself just to make sure.
Well, anybody who knows me knows I'm no fan of dictionaries or reference books. They're elitist. Constantly telling us what is or isn't true. Or what did or didn't happen.
Or you could watch his fights
And judge for yourself.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 1, 2010 5:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Is this when I’m supposed to enter a discussion about BROCKLESNAR!!! with an internet person going by the name "Black Lesnar" ? I’m feeling enlightened already.
Well, anybody who knows me knows I'm no fan of dictionaries or reference books. They're elitist. Constantly telling us what is or isn't true. Or what did or didn't happen.
Ah ok
Yes, dismiss my opinion because of my name.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jul 1, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
You could think that. Or wonder if could just be trolling back. I understand you don’t share my opinion (which was more a reaction than an argumentative essay as you probably noticed), but your answer was patronizing to say the least.
Anyway, that’s probably not worth our time. See you around.
Well, anybody who knows me knows I'm no fan of dictionaries or reference books. They're elitist. Constantly telling us what is or isn't true. Or what did or didn't happen.
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